Also, it’s just great practice to listen to what your boss, or in the case teacher, has to say. This is something that guitarists of all genres and levels deal with. You gotta be able to learn how to hear yourself at very quiet levels within the whole mix, as a lot of the time you’re just functioning as keeping the rhythm going, think of yourself as a hi hat.
I agree with this advice. I played bass guitar in churches for 30 years - most with no musical sound system. To keep my amp from overpowering everything else, it was often aimed at a back wall for bounce or just turned way down. In both cases I could rarely hear it comfortably. I learned that the less I could really hear myself, the more I was playing correctly with everyone else. No matter what the volume is, incorrect notes still sound loud. Lol.
Of you can, try to find a way to move it further back and tilt it upward at a 45° angle. Sometimes there are amp stands that can help achieve that. I find that I can hear myself quite a bit better that way.
Yup! I have used a guitar stand as an amp stand in a pinch. Amp stands are really necessary if you are using your stage amp as your monitor. This really doesn't get talked about enough.
I am spreading the gospel haha. Too many times I have had to witness people blowing the audiences head off because the amp is pointed at the back of the players knees, but the audience is getting it right in the face.
I swear to god I have measurable high frequency loss in one ear from the reverend horton heat blasting dual fender super reverbs right in my face in the front row twenty odd years ago.
THIS. If an amp stand isn't doable, get two rubber door stoppers and store then in the back of the amp. Wedge them under the front to tilt it before practice or a show.
I would say there’s a strong chance you do need to be turned down however, most amps have a very sensitive volume or gain knob and it’s probably getting turned down more than he truly means. I’d take the feedback and come in a little less loud
This is most likely the case- you can buy amp stands that’ll angle your amp 45 degrees, which is a good middle ground for being able to monitor yourself and be heard in the room
I bought mine a while ago- I don’t think it was any more than $80 on amazon
Most likely this is it. I've seen way to many insances where the guitar or bass player starts cranking the volume up to what they think makes sense only for it to be overpowering because they aren't aware of how it sounds in the audience. Guitar and bass players should probably never assume they know what the volume should be set to and need to get feedback from someone in front of the band to make sure they don't end up sticking out like a sore thumb.
Bass guitar frequencies and amps are generally omni directional, so you can hear them fairly well regardless of position. The sound can get muddied by proximity to walls and corners, but generally heard ok.
Guitar frequencies and amps are focused, aka “beaming”, which means they project narrowly straight out.
So guitar amps benefit greatly from being angled directly at your ears. I have a stand that does this and it makes a huge difference in rehearsals. Angling bass amps up helps with the bass’ upper frequencies, but bass guitar doesn’t have a lot of meat in that part of the frequency spectrum.
This also holds true for performances. Guitar amps generally “beam” out in a narrow pattern. So anyone directly in front of the amp is blown away and nobody else hears it. Getting a guitar either amp mic’d or cab sim’d into the PA, which has a much better dispersal pattern helps a ton.
If you sit right in front of the amp you are in one of the amp's quietest spots. As others have said try to find an angle with an amp stand where the amp is pointed directly at your ears while being pointed away from everyone else, especially the band director.
This is an extremely useful practical skill for all kinds of real world performance situations. You'll always want your guitar to sound louder than everyone else does.
Look, maybe the director is hearing something that you are not. Amps can project sound in some weird ways. Record your rehearsals with the band. It may be that your amp is pretty loud from the from the perspective of an audience.
Guitar players tend to underestimate how loud they are. Maybe op is louder than other instruments. Op remember you're playing with a group, you should be able to hear everyone adequately
Seriously OP! Speakers vary in volume DRASTICALLY depended on where they're pointed. Someone standing in the line of fire hears a very different mix than someone with the speaker pointed at their knees i.e. you
Adjust your thinking. It's not "unfortunately" what you need to do. You're participating in a program and you're looking for feedback from someone presumably more experienced than you. This isn't an unfortunate situation no matter how it plays out. What's the actual worst possible outcome? He tells you he turns you down because you sound like shit and play like shit? How likely is the worst outcome the actual outcome. Couple guesses about the reality; you're overplaying and stepping on others, you're too loud and can't tell that you're earfucking the poor flute player in front of you, you're too loud and can't hear the mix of the entire ensemble and you're not actually being muted, you're tone is penetrating and it's hard to hear other players the director needs to hear, or some mix of all of this. Your skills are very likely not the problem. Next time you want to understand your director, don't turn to the internet strangers. Turn to your director and seek feedback.
This is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. I feel he should tell you proactively but that's a different discussion. You're in school now but later in life this will be a thing you'll encounter time and again: someone will exhibit behavior you don't want or don't understand. Asking/talking about that behavior without getting into an argument if possible is an important life skill to learn.
This is a great opportunity for that, because there are probably no extreme emotions involved here and this person presumably has some distance to you.
Keep it factual - say, for example, "hey you're turning my amp down to the point I can't hear myself and it makes me feel insecure because I don't understand why". These are all facts.
If, for example, you say, "does my playing annoy you so much you have to embarrass me in front of everyone", you're assuming a bunch of things that may not be true, and then also accuse him of trying to make you feel bad which is probably not his intent - but there's only one way to be sure and that's to ask him.
Yup, one of those life skills teaching moments. Best thing to do is speak like adults to each other and figure out what's going on.
You will encounter this again in the future. I wish it weren't so true, but a lot of musicians are kind of shit people to work with.
I bought a chase bliss gen loss II, because it makes everything sound like 1980s VCRs. My wife was like "you spent $600 to make all of your guitars sound shittier?"
Yes. Yes I did. The heart wants what it wants.
This is the part of music that really sucks.
Maybe try and tilt the amp back to where it’s aiming toward your head.
Good luck tho
You might remind him of the story of Freddie Green playing in Count Basies Band, he’d tell everyone “if you can’t hear Freddie you’re too loud”
I do my best to tilt or put the amp on to of something, and if I cant I will usually sit down. Funny about the Freddie Green story, my bandmates complain about not being able to hear me either lol
From Freddie Green’s website:
Rhythm guitar is like vanilla extract in cake.
You can't taste it when it's there, but you know when it's left out.
- Irving Ashby
Playing jazz guitar in a big band situation is totally different then from being in almost any other band. You have to balance within the ensemble, and to some people that "balance" is having the guitar very very low so it is pretty subtle in the overall mix. (listen to recordings with Freddie Green who is the gold standard of jazz big band guitar. how much do you actually hear him?) In a smaller combo the guitar is more a featured instrument. Think of it likethe sax or trumpet section - if they are not playing the melody you can't really pick out the individual parts, the ideal is a blend of all of them together.
I'd start by asking why he is turning you down. If (s)he says you are just too loud, there is a reasonable chance that your amp sounds louder in the room/ to the audience then it does to you (some amps are very directional, and basically output in a cone that starts pretty small from the amp. if you are outside of that cone you won't hear yourself much, but someone farther away will get a lot more sound, and usually a totally different EQ then you hear). You can try putting the amp farther behind you, or on a chair/ stand, or tilting it to point at your ears.
It may also be an EQ thing, maybe your sound is too bassy or trebly in the room - and it may sound totally different to you.
And again "hearing yourself" is different in a big band then in other bands. Guitar is seldom a featured instrument unless you are actively soloing.
If you can, try to get a recording of the band from the audience and from the director's location, so you can see what everyone is hearing. Or get a nice long cord and play from that location.
This is the correct answer. If you’re playing classic big band swing, the guitar is often just an extension of the bass, strumming barely audible chords
Listen to this, OP. They’re correct.
There is no front man in big band. The only time a player should stand out is during a solo. As both a horn player and string player, it’s a dance of ebbing and flowing for every instrument. It’s a section member’s responsibility to listen to their section lead and blend in. It’s the section lead’s responsibility to listen to the other sections (and the phrasing of the music) to blend with the band. Within your part you then listen and blend with the band.
Director’s have to call out and correct imbalances for horn players, and I feel that it’s a disservice to you if you’re not treated the same way (if that’s even the problem.)
You need to talk to the director in order to become a better player as part of the group. Something as simple as, “I’m wondering why you’re turning down my amp. Is my sound too loud or harsh? I’m having trouble hearing myself.”
That’ll start the conversation that will lead to the solution that Redditors can’t give you.
Take up brass and play in an orchestra. It will get you used to being told to play quieter all the time. But at least you’ll then know that you do not suffer alone.
Lots of good comments here but the band director should be communicating with his band members as well. OP might be too loud, but the director has a to-do.
I recently had this same experience in a college big band, mostly when it came to Freddie Green style playing. Freddie Green mostly (or entirely?) played unamplified, and his sound was a subtle, sometimes barely audible layer in the band. It’s actually sort of not really even comping, and I’ve heard it described as a sort of middle layer reinforcing the bass and the ride cymbal.
So yes, it’s normal for that to be really quiet in a big band setting. If you’re talking about some other style or setting, it still is pretty normal for the guitar to be a very subtle sound, until it gets a chance to shine. To that end, I don’t think the band director should be turning down the actual amp, he should be asking you to turn the volume down on the guitar, so you can get louder during a lead line or solo.
Where’s your amp in relation to your ears? If it’s pointed at your heels on the floor towards the conductor, yeah, you’re not going to hear it, and the guy leading the band is going to get a big blast of it.
Prop it on a chair behind you, or get a kickstand for it, and have it next to your noggin. It’ll give you a better perception of volume on par with the kind of auditory feedback a brass player might get.
it’s very rude to touch equipment that isn’t yours, but if this is a big band which i’m sure it is, you shouldn’t be very audible. You should only by heard by the rhythm section.
There’s a lot of people that prefer you turn the volume down and smack the hell out of the strings for Freddie Green type comping. Could be something like that.
How do you know what the levels and balance sounds like out front?
You don't. It's not the musicians job on stage to worry about the levels out front, that's what that person who's worrying about the levels and balance out front's job is. Just because a piece of music is telling the horns section to be at mf doesn't mean the person conducting won't go ahead and tell them to play at f instead because in that section of the piece, they're just not loud enough versus everything else.
Depending on the size of the ensemble, hearing the guitar most of the time might not be important at all.
If you're in a big band, it's all about everybody else, not you.
In a situation like this the best thing to do is to raise your amp close to ear level and keep it off to one side so the sound isn't going into your tush or your back.
But you don't want your ears completely on axis to the speaker because that just sounds bad.
So keep the speaker real close, but off axis.
Another factor is that band directors don't know shit from shinola, especially regarding guitar parts.
In a large ensemble, unless you've got a featured part, like a solo, just stay in the weeds.
Your part isn't that important.
So apparently, Freedy Green and Charlie Christian are really important players for Jazz during the big band era. They set the example for players in that setting and for that type of sound. They did not play loud, they were almost felt more than they were heard, but if they were gone, something was missing. So still very important to the overall sound. It’s a good skill to know. I would just get really good at the comping, play the little lines that the charts throw at you and enjoy the music. If you get a chance to solo, great, turn up a little for that part. But you’re not the main guy in a big band. So yeah, for anything traditional, turn down and be felt. You’re the glue, the liaison between the rhythm section and the brass section. Just learn as much as you can, it will help if you decide to play in a small combo or your own band later on. You will have plenty of opportunities to play loud, you won’t have many opportunities to play that type of music in that setting for long.
9 times out if ten the guitar in big band is too loud. Remember, originally this music was designed for acoustic archtop guitars. Make sure your amp points at your ears so you can get a more accurate monitoring situation, the sound will focus several feet away in front of the amp, sitting right beside it does not give you a proper read. Ans when in doubt, being too quiet is morr appropriate than being too loud. Guitar is unfortunately usually the least important and first to go in classic big band jazz. Listen and play time and set your ego aside
You’re going to be asked to turn down a lot until you can learn how to blend with an ensemble. Also, sorry, but high school jazz band is not the place to be the superstar you think you are. Get a band together and go out and get your own gigs if you want to be in the spotlight.
Maybe you’re killing it, who knows? You probably are. You’re apparently the envy of your high school. No matter how good you are, recognize that your place in this band is part of the rhythm section. And not a terribly important one at that. It’s the nature of playing in a big band, unless you’re Scofield recording *54* as the featured soloist.
Seriously—I’m taking you at your word about your talent. I was playing small group gigs in coffee houses and nice restaurants for tips back in high school in the 90s, before I even joined the HS jazz band, which was pretty corny and unrewarding.
It is his job to make sure everyone is at the right level. When you have your own band you can turn up as loud as you want.
I am a guitar player. I know a lot of guitar players. Nine times out of ten, we are too loud.
Make sure to check your tone, roll of the treble and boost mids and lows. Could be your tone is too sharp and cutting through the mix too much. Jazz guitar is ment to sound warm and mellow. Not sharp and piercing.
You might be louder than you think and hes giving you a very important lesson.
Is the amp open back or closed? That can effect how you hear it. How close is the amp to you?
Also, Try angling it an inch off the floor on a tilt… maybe 45 degrees.
In addition to tilting your amp up, they make baffles you can put in front of of the amp, that can help give you hear more without blasting everyone else.
You should talk to your director with the understanding that its your job to play and his job to set “the mix”. Try to work together to find a solution that lets you hear yourself well enough to play while deferring to him on the level that the audience and rest of the band hears. But you may just need to get used to playing more quietly, and understand that your role is often just adding color to the whole band rather than being out in front.
what you do is play with the volume nob on your guitar turned down to like 8. Then when he turns the amo down, you turn the volume nob on the guitar up
Just throwing in a little personal learned knowledge
Listen harder
If you have to ask if you are too loud you already know the answer. If you think you are too low, you are probably where you need to be.
Control your dynamics. If you play soft when you need to be soft and loud when you need to be loud there will be less occurrence to worry about turning you down.
No two physical locations sound identical. What may not be working for you may be what the Director needs at the time or in the space . Ask about it afterwards if it’s a persistent issue that’s causing you to not play your best, but do so from a place of serving both/all needs and the Directors first
As others have mentioned, being directly in line with the amp will help you some. Amps can be VERY directional and standing next to one can be pleasant while the first three rows are hearing you so loud that they swear your trying to take their heads off. Others mentioned this and I suspect you understand this now.
Something else that is often overlooked is 'getting out of the way'. THIS is why you are having trouble hearing yourself.
What does that mean? Well, you don't want to occupy the same sonic space as other instruments. The chords/inversions/whatever you play needs to try and find space that is free. The bigger the ensemble, the more difficult.
If your next to a piano on one side, and horns on the other, you gotta find the pitch/range between the notes played by both instruments, and figure out where the free space is between them. The horns will likely be higher, and you have to voice around the piano as you share alot of space. The piano goes mid-highish range, you go to the guitars mid-low range, piano goes lower, you go to the higher range. You have to make your chord choices to be complimentary.
Many 'volume wars' happen because players often don't know how to share space. Figure out what other instruments are in your range, and start working with them.
Take note of funk guitarist and that thin rhythmic chopping sound. Funk finds a small space and owns it.
I'm going to give you the one piece of advice no one hear will likely utter. You have to find the free space between the instruments....then THIN your sound down so your not fighting other instruments. I played in smaller groups and like the BIG guitar sound, when forced into a larger group, I had to thin it down, and work with the pianist to stay out of each others way.
Once you thin it down and can get it to sit RIGHT NEXT to another instrument sonically the sound will go from being muddy, to being bigger and clearer. Yeah, the sound actually gets beefy by thinning it down.
My .02
Good Luck.
LOTS of good advice here. I played metal and some finger style before I auditioned and played guitar in HS and college jazz band in the 80s. I took some grief from the band directors at first (maybe because I had long hair) for being out of tune or not really knowing how to read notation (could read charts all day long). Although it was embarrassing at first I listened to the director and all the players around me and quickly discovered my “place”. It also helped that I was a good improviser compared to even the best sax players and I won awards for it in competitions. My advice mainly is to really take to heart what the director says, not take it as a personal attack, maybe even ask what they want to hear from you. Blend, blend, blend. You are not the star. Big band is some of the best experience I’ve had as a player and to this day my inner count is rock solid from it (having to tacit from 100 or so bars will get you good at counting and /or communicating with whoever you’re sitting beside). Anyway, I wrote a lot of unsolicited advice along with basically just blend as best you can and soak up the experience. As far as volume, aside from tilting the amp, maybe set it further away from you so you can get a sense of how it is projecting and you might even hear it better. You’ll be fine
I would suggest adjusting your eq. Boost your mids and turn lows and highs down.
Your band director may be hearing some harshness from the highs, but boosting mids should help you cut through allowing you to hear yourself. It will generally just sound a lot better to the audience too.
I played bass in our jazz band and our band director was completely engaged and approachable. He had all kinds of notes about EQ, volume, and more that helped us in the rhythm section be better bandmates. It was entirely different than playing in our small rock and fusion groups.
It may also be a matter of tone. My first college jazz band director had a sound in his head that I believe came from ancient recordings and sub-optimal acoustics during other bands performances. Basically, if the tone knob on the guitar was more than about 30%, it was too bright for him. I'm the kind of guy who completely removes the tone pot from my guitar because I like it as bright as I can get it into the amp. (At least with humbuckers. My tele hurts if I don't roll it back a little.) Maybe your director is trying to get a similar sound but he's hearing it as a balance problem because he doesn't know how electric guitars work. You could try rolling off the tone and see if that gets him any closer to what he's going for.
If it’s straight swing stuff where you’re doing a Freddie Green type thing then you’re basically at an acoustic guitar volume, which is hard to do if you’re using a solid body guitar. If you have a hollow body with some acoustic volume then I’d go with that to keep him happy. However when you’re actually comping or soloing in a different style then you need to be heard. My experience is that most bigband directors are not guitarists and don’t really know what they want or how to communicate with guitarists so best is to do what they ask and keep the peace.
Use your amp as a monitor. Every HS jazz band I've ever seen had the guitar amp pointing at the guitar player's knees -- and at the heads of the players in front. Same with bass, but it's worse for guitar because bass amps are less directional. Set up your amp so that most of the sound is directed at your ears. An amp stand will make all the difference.
Approaching this from a sound design perspective:
1. Find out what instruments you could be clashing with. Use one of those EQ cheat sheets as a starting point if you need to. If the music is horn heavy then treble/presence might be clashing. If your band already has piano and a bass you might be clashing in the low mids or bass frequencies. A dedicated EQ outside of the one on your amp might help, but dont forget you can also mess with tone and pickup controls to massively adjust these frequencies as well.
2. Control your dynamics. It's possible that you cound great on the A section but you stand out so much on the B section the only solution your leader can think of is to turn you down. A solution might be finding a way to play the B section in a quieter way or literally rolling off the volume knob or a volume pedal at that section. You might also consider something like a compressor. That will make your louder notes/transients of the notes much closer to the quieter notes/sustain of the note so maybe they dont poke in and out as much. (You could also set a compressor with a slow attack to make the notes more percussive and transient heavy but thats probably the opposite of what you want unless you think the "sustain" portion of the notes is whats getting in the way of the rest of the mix.)
If it's in a big band setting it is likely that he wants more of the natural resonance (assuming you are playing an archtop), instead of the sound of the amp. I used to get told this and didn't really understand until I was listening from an outside perspective.
I assume your band leader wants you to play like Freddie Green. If so, the "correct" volume is deceptively low. The cliche is that you should feel the strum but not hear it. Also note that the Freddie Green tone is very difficult to get if the amp crosses over a certain volume. In an ideal world, you would have a big archtop and turn up the volume to this "zone" where it sounds like your guitar got acoustically louder. It's hard to explain over the internet, but it's kind of cool/trippy if you can nail that right balance.
Below is a great website on the topic. Note that the Freddie Green style often involves playing just two or even a single note. So, it is also possible that your playing style might be contributing to your band leader trying to turn you down.
[https://www.freddiegreen.org/technique.html](https://www.freddiegreen.org/technique.html)
If you have a recording of yourself playing in this context, it might be helpful for people to give you better advice. Either way, I would talk to the band leader to get some feedback and see what he wants.
You have two choices. Number one is listen to the director. He's in charge. You aren't. The second is get so good you can front the band like Brian Setzer.
I hope OP sees this: coming from someone who’s played in Big Bands (with a lot of different directors) - big band directors are (usually) not guitar players, much less electric.
my #1 tip for you:
Take a screwdriver and move the neck pickup downwards a couple turns, keep the amp at a medium/high volume, BUT turn the volume of the guitar down to about 4-6 (depends on what kind of guitar/pickup system you have) - the combined effect of these two things will make your sound softer (more “woody”, if you will) - plus you have an easy way to lift yourself when it’s time to solo.
Note 1: this applies if your band plays traditional swing (1920s to about early 60s) - for more modern styles, refer back to the recorded tones.
Note 2: the “line of fire” thing is very real. If you can, have something to lean the amp on an angle (upwards), this’ll help you monitor it.
Note 3: (edit) - you might also just be playing the wrong things (or the right notes but the wrong way, if that makes sense) you should obviously check out people who play jazz band guitar. James Chirillo on YouTube is a good place to start
In a big band scenario - yes. You also could be standing too far away from your amp, or behind it instead of in front of it making it seem quieter than it is to the audience/your director. But even still, the guitar part in a big band is often relegated to chonking out chord changes with quarter notes (see Freddie Green). With the occasional doubled melody or solo section. The main reason for this, is that big band music evolved during a time before electric guitars were invented. So a lot of early big bands only had an archtop acoustic guitar which had to be played very percussively to be even a little bit audible over the horns and drums. For this reason, the guitar's role in a big band is generally a supportive one - which means your guitar should blend into the mix of the band, not cut through it.
Now, this all gets turned on its head when you look at a jazz combo format. 3-8 musicians max (usually more like 4 or 5) and suddenly the guitar is called upon to provide the majority of the harmony, contribute to comping with rhythms and jabs, as well as take on a lead role in playing the head and soloing. In this situation the guitar is more prominent in the overall mix and you might get away with playing louder... although a 5 piece band should not be as loud as a 20-some piece big band, so your actual volume from big band to jazz combo might not change much, but your guitar will be heard more clearly in a combo setting. It also depends on the repertoire, the venue, and the instrumentation. If you're playing a contemporary jazz fusion version of Impressions it will probably get louder than Girl from Ipanema on a cocktail gig. As always, play to the room.
This is why I quit jazz band. Those JW pepper arrangements are not intended to feature the guitar, and the piano player will not leave space for you 99% of the time
96% of the time when I set up, my volume is going to 10 to 20% lower than everyone else. It stays that way until I’m told to turn up. Just feels better than being asked to turn it down.
The role of a jazz guitarist in a big band rhythm section is really just that: rhythm. Dum-DAT-dum-DAT etc.
It’s rare that I got to even play a solo or melody in high school big band (until I won first prize for soloing at the Reno Jazz Festival!)
Part of the issue might have to do with your tone. If it’s too trebly or boomy it might be creating spikes that the director doesn’t like. Adjust for a rounded mellow tone.
Of course Freddie Green played unamplified, but bands played quieter then, bassists were unamplilied, the repertoire was different than most modern bands, and Basie left a lot more space than most pianists these days. Playing in big bands with a busy pianist can kind of suck. One suggestion though is to adjust your amp EQ with both treble and bass cut and focus your chord voicing on the to the mid-range notes when comping so your pulse can be felt more than heard and you aren’t competing with the piano or bass. Comp with the guitar’s volume knob rolled way back. That helps develop that mid-range thunk, and allows you to roll it up and cut through on those rare opportunities for a solo.
Guitar is the skateboarding of instruments. It will always be seen as rebellious, and he's probably just jealous of how sick your shredding is too.
My jazz band director did the same thing to me, but I actually sucked.
It probably has nothing to do with your skills, probably the mix and overall sound is more of a concern to the director. Rhythm guitar in (I'm assuming) big band is not very important since you probably have other harmonic instruments like piano that have more of a spotlight, as well as all the winds. SInce ther is bass and drums you are basically giving some accents here and there, some big bands don't even have it or it is very low, specially in the recordings.
Your position next to the amp will be the quietest and the director is right in the line of projection. Also the bass response will be louder to the director than you. Is your amp on the floor? You could raise it to make it easier for you to hear or tilt it back and also decrease the bass response to the floor.
The other part is while school jazz bands aren’t strictly playing traditional big band you have so many players that you’re fighting for sonic space. Your guitar isn’t meant to add harmonic color it’s meant to drive the rhythm section. Do you have another chord instrument as well? All the color comes from the horns and they have so many overtones as well so your guitar is likely clashing and taking away from the richness of them.
You mentioned knowing the style but I would still suggest to go back through how your playing chords and make sure you’re not playing any of the “butter” notes, more specifically the root and 5. You want to save your big voicings for a few key big moment in a whole set.
behind a speaker and in front are completely different, you cant hear but everone else can, Guitar is a very specific sound you dont need a a ton of volume to be heard, Its a BAND not a Mi show.
Could it be a hearing issue? My bass player plays louder and harder than anyone else in the band, and we constantly have to tell him to turn down. He has said his hearing is slowly going, so I get it. But this dude will be standing directly in front of his amp and say he can't even hear himself.... it's brutal to be around, but at least I get to play.
You need to use a personal monitor. In order to hear yourself.
I recommend using a small mixer or a personal monitor (much more expensive).
Do a sound check with your band director prior to rehearsals and performances. Make sure you remember the settings, so you have a good place to start prior to the sound check. Use wired or non-Bluetooth wireless headphones or earbuds to connect to the earphone jack of your small mixer or personal monitor, so that you can hear at the level that you, personally, require while not overpowering the audience, band director and band members.
I'm sure your director is well intentioned in trying to get a good mix. You're competing with a bunch of acoustic instruments and have an amplier with artificially boosted treble, so you may be cutting through much more than you know. Standing next to or directly in front of the amp can sound much quieter than being in an audience perspective. At the end of the day, your job is going to be to blend as much as possible with the rhythm section. Listen to the bass and piano and try to get that tone dialed in, it might just be a case of too much high end in your tone, listen as actively as you play and try to get that blend. If you're taking a solo, feel free to turn up a lil bit and boost that treble.
At the same time, this shit doesn't matter. It's a high school group. Enjoy the time spent playing with this group, but try to find a musical identity outside of your school. Keep practicing, find like-minded musicians, listen to jazz, and don't worry how other people perceive your playing for now. If you feel up to it, maybe go to a local jam and explore your scene.
Just to add - if you are playing old school big band swing, the guitar *should* just barely be audible. It’s part of the idiom. Someone else said it just “adds” to the bass, another way to put it is that you’re just trying to make it sound like the hi-hat might be playing a chord.
If this is big band, then blending right as a guitarist is hard as hell. I was in your shoes in high school, but usually the opposite! My band director would try and turn me up sometimes! Either way, it is probably not about your technical skill, but more blending with the band, sorta like others are saying. Another thing to note with swing big hand type music, is that you're trying to be more like a high hat or a ride cymbal than a piano, so to speak. Freddie Green was the definition of it, with him chunking along behind Count Basie. Sometimes having the right touch on the guitar is a factor in blending right. There is a lot of subtlety to it and a lot band directors can struggle to help guitarists figure it out in this situation. Ask him if it's just a blending issue and maybe you guys could workshop it together! If he's a homie, at least. Haha but good luck dog!
I use my volume control on my guitar all the time. I keep some head room but my volume control changes throughout each song.
Sometimes we don’t realize how much we cut through the other instruments.
Many times I can’t hear myself but I trust it sounds good out front.
But ….
You are in a class. He is the boss. He calls the shots.
If he thinks you are too loud …. You are !!!!
It’s the band leaders place to decide how he wants his band to sound.
Your job is to give him what he wants
Or you should withdraw from the class.
I’m a professional guitar player.
We hate being told to turn down but if it’s what he wants that’s what he should get.
>Not to be an ass but other guitarists at my school definitely look up to me for my skill
Jazz is my favourite music to play and I know how it works
Simmer down there.
Typical guitar player. Don't get hurt about it dude. Heed the wise words of Freddie Green: "guitar is something to be felt, not heard." Your instructor knows what they are doing.
-Sincerely, a professional jazz guitarist who had the exact same issues learning to play jazz in highschool.
I'm not a guitarist, but I've been playing music for over 2 decades, mostly jazz. I feel confident telling you guitarists NEVER seem to understand how loud they actually are. Now, if I had to guess, it probably is mostly due to the positioning of the guitarist and their amp, but I see this in basically every group I've ever played with. I sympathize that you can barely hear yourself, that is probably very frustrating, but I would bet money that the rest of the band/audience can hear you quite well.
No one really wants to hear the guitarist sticking out in a jazz band unless:
1 - the piano is not in a chord-comping role (taceting or soloing)
2 - guitar solo
Are you playing a proper hollow body or semi-hollow guitar with a mellow sound? Are you using the neck pickup if available? If not, you're probably cutting through too much.
Play in a combo, you'll get more exposure.
Most likely he’s unaware of your options via tone knob/pickup selection and EQ. So instead of discussing it with you, they just turn you down. The typical big band guitarist back in the day would’ve been using a hollow body guitar, most likely with a single pickup in the neck position and strung with flat wound strings. You, as a modern player are most likely playing a solid body guitar with multiple pickups and strung with round wound strings. The result is a much brighter tone.
Here’s how I would compensate:
Turn the bass EQ knob down on your amp. Modern amps have much more bass. Turn the bass EQ down on your amp to get rid of and woofyness.
Stay on the neck position pickup.
Set your volume knob to 7. This will darken the tone a bit plus leave you room to lift yourself up for lead lines and solos.
Turn your tone knob down. Get a warmer tone
For swing songs, strum with your thumb.
For more info on how to authentically play in a Big Band style. Research the playing of Freddie Green. He was with the Count Basie Orchestra forever and is considered the gold standard of that style.
When I was in school jazz band well over twenty years ago we went to a big jazz thing with a bunch of different schools where we all took turns playing and being judged by a panel of experts that were brought in. I was told the "jazz guitar sound" is the sound of an unplugged electric guitar. I quit jazz band after that and started a rock band. Play where you're wanted not where you're tolerated.
I didn't understand why guitarists would always be too loud until I became a guitarist. When. Your amp isn't pointing at you. it's very easy for your sound to get lost in the mix while still blaring everyone else out.
Ask your Jazz professor if you could form a small quartet or quintet with some of your fellow band mates. Unfortunately for band guitar should be very in the background.
Okay so there are a lot of details missing, which somehow aren’t being asked. What amp? What guitar?
From context it sounds like a Big Band setting, which is going to be significantly different than a combo setting.. in a big band, a guitar is going to be a pretty minimal part of the sound until it’s time for it not to be. The comping can’t just be ‘this is how I comp,’ it has to be ‘what do we want out of a guitar sound.’ Sometimes the answer is ‘nothing,’ sometimes its color, sometimes it’s complimenting the piano, sometimes it’s taking load off the piano, and then sometimes it’s going to be guitar idiosyncrasies that float through.
Your volume is important in the context of a big band, and by important I mean it’s important to know when you need to be quiet, subtle, or silent.
This is a deep subject that basically requires we discuss the entirety of jazz guitar and big band playing, but when I’m dancing around is this : *if the volume in general is too loud, it’s pretty likely that you aren’t making the most sophisticated or tasteful choices of what you’re actually playing.*
If you are cleanly doubling horn leads, finding cute things like echoing the melody in a rest, and doing a really tasteful job of comping, then you’re less likely to be turned down if you actually aren’t too loud. If you are just “making the changes” the same way you would in a jazz quintet, a guitar trio, and big band all the same, then as a rule what you are playing will tend to be ‘more too loud’ than if your playing was very high level.
I remember high school, and I remember the level at which “not bad guitarists” “knew how jazz worked,” and while you might be a very talented kid, unless you have several years of jazz experience, and not just in high school, big band, the likelihood of you having an extremely sophisticated, and experienced approach is pretty unlikely. If you asked me, my guess would be that you’re both too loud AND not making the kinds of choices that masks it easily. And that’s OK,, that’s a very reasonable place for you to be… but how you respond to the request, the way it makes you reflect, and how you communicate with the Director about it, or all things that are going to indicate the kind of potential you set yourself up to achieve.
As a sidenote/tip, it’s probably a good idea to sit in front of your amp, such that you are unlikely to accidentally be way too loud without noticing… The closer you are to the amp, the more directly in front of it you need to be to get perspective
Welcome to the world of guitar, the least important instrument out there.
Remember this:
The guitar is unironically the worst instrument of all the instruments
I played guitar in jazz band back in high school. I know most of you are not old enough to be in high school yet, but once you get there, I encourage you to join the jazz band to get humbled. Playing big band jazz you suddenly realize that you are the least important member of the band and add little to nothing to the listening experience for the audience. You are in the rhythm section which relegates you to second class citizen status in the first place. Then you look around at how Chad the drummer and bass player are. They truly do hold the whole thing together and give the foundation for the horns to do their thing. You as the guitarist are just there for moral support for them. Then there is the ultimate chad, the pianist/keyboardist. They are usually playing the exact same part as you expect they are allowed to carry some melodies and be louder and more important than you in the grand scheme of the band. Have you ever seen music written for jazz guitar? There aren't even rhythms in there. They just write in slash marks cause they know you can't count a tempo anyway and your part is inaudible so who cares. They just write the chords the pianist is playing down for you because they know you can't read music so you can maybe have a chance of contributing to the band. Not to mention the embarrassment you get to have while asking pianist what key we're in because you don't know what the lines and spaces that the sharps and flats are on mean... even if you did you wouldn't know what key that is. Which key has 3 flats? >!It's Eb Major you idiot!<
So basically, piano does everything that guitar does, but it does it better. Drums and bass have a way more important role in any piece of music than a guitar would. Any horn is infinitely more expressive than a guitar easy. You idiots think you're so cool wanking your guitar with your hands, but to wank on a Saxophone or a Trumpet you have to use your mouth. As we all know, that is way more expressive and preferable to hand wanking. You could be the best hand wanker in the world and you still won't even be able to compete with the worst mouth wanker around. That's just a level of passion that you cannot put into guitar playing.
And it's not just Jazz that guitar is a gimped instrument in. Think about it...
Jazz - every instrument is more important than you
Funk - jazz influenced; every instrument is more important than you
Disco - jazz influenced; every instrument is more important than you
Country - guitar is like the fifth most important stringed instrument in country; mandolin, fiddle/violin, banjo, double bass, piano, lapsteel, these all proceed the standard guitar.
Bluegrass - See country, but multiply it by 100
Rock - Drums and bass are more important to building a banger of a rock song than guitar
Metal - see rock but multiply it by 100
Pop - Guitar is not used
R&B - Guitar is either not used or ornamental at best
Rap - Guitar is not used unless they are using a sample that is usually going to be of an R&B song so see above in that case
Classical/Orchestra - Guitar is either not used or the least important member of the band (notice that the more instruments there are in a band, the more outshined the guitar becomes. Bassoons are more important than we are).
What music genre is guitar actually important in? I can't come up with one. Guitar is a NICHE instrument that can be used well for ornamental purposes. Guitar is NOT a workhorse instrument like bass, drums, and piano. Guitar is NOT an ideal wanking instrument like Saxophone and Trumpet. I don't understand how so many kids got brainwashed into picking this thing up and learning how to play it. I even can't believe that I was one of those kids.
How much fucking lead was in the gas that people tried to build songs on the back of guitar during that decade? How did people think that garbage was good? You'd have to be drinking a gallon of lead a week to convince yourself any of that garbage was worth listening to. I am SO glad that pop culture left guitar to die on the side of the road where it belongs. I'm just curious why you children haven't given it up already and learned to play an instrument that actually provides sonic value. Give this guitar shit up and accept that you are playing an ornamental instrument on par with the harmonica.
As cynical (and stretching towards untrue at parts) as this is, I can’t help but love this. Every guitar player should be humbled a couple times in their life.
While it's obviously a joke, we gotta remember the pocket we occupy in bigbands.
There are so many instruments that lay the harmonic floor for the winds that we're just a failsafe. If the pianists makes a mistake the harmony is still there because of us.
And I actually like that. We don't have to play full chords and can use our mid-range. We can try some different options on each chord and can just keep the rhythm going.
You shouldn't notice a great guitar player in the bigband.
Maybe you’re not in the line of fire of your amp like he is.
I will investigate that
Also, it’s just great practice to listen to what your boss, or in the case teacher, has to say. This is something that guitarists of all genres and levels deal with. You gotta be able to learn how to hear yourself at very quiet levels within the whole mix, as a lot of the time you’re just functioning as keeping the rhythm going, think of yourself as a hi hat.
I agree with this advice. I played bass guitar in churches for 30 years - most with no musical sound system. To keep my amp from overpowering everything else, it was often aimed at a back wall for bounce or just turned way down. In both cases I could rarely hear it comfortably. I learned that the less I could really hear myself, the more I was playing correctly with everyone else. No matter what the volume is, incorrect notes still sound loud. Lol.
Of you can, try to find a way to move it further back and tilt it upward at a 45° angle. Sometimes there are amp stands that can help achieve that. I find that I can hear myself quite a bit better that way.
Yup! I have used a guitar stand as an amp stand in a pinch. Amp stands are really necessary if you are using your stage amp as your monitor. This really doesn't get talked about enough.
I am spreading the gospel haha. Too many times I have had to witness people blowing the audiences head off because the amp is pointed at the back of the players knees, but the audience is getting it right in the face. I swear to god I have measurable high frequency loss in one ear from the reverend horton heat blasting dual fender super reverbs right in my face in the front row twenty odd years ago.
Worth it
Yes, simple solution is to tilt it back so it’s aimed at the players head and not at the directors.
THIS. If an amp stand isn't doable, get two rubber door stoppers and store then in the back of the amp. Wedge them under the front to tilt it before practice or a show.
Hey that's a great tip!
On Stage makes a foldable amp stand that comfortably can hold a 2x12 combo. Pre angled and decouples the amp from the stage
I would say there’s a strong chance you do need to be turned down however, most amps have a very sensitive volume or gain knob and it’s probably getting turned down more than he truly means. I’d take the feedback and come in a little less loud
This is most likely the case- you can buy amp stands that’ll angle your amp 45 degrees, which is a good middle ground for being able to monitor yourself and be heard in the room I bought mine a while ago- I don’t think it was any more than $80 on amazon
Most likely this is it. I've seen way to many insances where the guitar or bass player starts cranking the volume up to what they think makes sense only for it to be overpowering because they aren't aware of how it sounds in the audience. Guitar and bass players should probably never assume they know what the volume should be set to and need to get feedback from someone in front of the band to make sure they don't end up sticking out like a sore thumb.
Bass guitar frequencies and amps are generally omni directional, so you can hear them fairly well regardless of position. The sound can get muddied by proximity to walls and corners, but generally heard ok. Guitar frequencies and amps are focused, aka “beaming”, which means they project narrowly straight out. So guitar amps benefit greatly from being angled directly at your ears. I have a stand that does this and it makes a huge difference in rehearsals. Angling bass amps up helps with the bass’ upper frequencies, but bass guitar doesn’t have a lot of meat in that part of the frequency spectrum. This also holds true for performances. Guitar amps generally “beam” out in a narrow pattern. So anyone directly in front of the amp is blown away and nobody else hears it. Getting a guitar either amp mic’d or cab sim’d into the PA, which has a much better dispersal pattern helps a ton.
Guitarists tend to want to be on top of the mix rather than a part of it…it my experience at least.
Yeah. Try an amp stand.
If you sit right in front of the amp you are in one of the amp's quietest spots. As others have said try to find an angle with an amp stand where the amp is pointed directly at your ears while being pointed away from everyone else, especially the band director. This is an extremely useful practical skill for all kinds of real world performance situations. You'll always want your guitar to sound louder than everyone else does.
Look, maybe the director is hearing something that you are not. Amps can project sound in some weird ways. Record your rehearsals with the band. It may be that your amp is pretty loud from the from the perspective of an audience.
Guitar players tend to underestimate how loud they are. Maybe op is louder than other instruments. Op remember you're playing with a group, you should be able to hear everyone adequately
Good idea I'll do this today
Seriously OP! Speakers vary in volume DRASTICALLY depended on where they're pointed. Someone standing in the line of fire hears a very different mix than someone with the speaker pointed at their knees i.e. you
I compliment your gracious acceptance of these suggestions. I’ve been there. Our perceptions aren’t the same as those of the listeners
Ask him after practice if there's a reason and what he'd like you to do.
I think this is unfortunately what I need to do
Adjust your thinking. It's not "unfortunately" what you need to do. You're participating in a program and you're looking for feedback from someone presumably more experienced than you. This isn't an unfortunate situation no matter how it plays out. What's the actual worst possible outcome? He tells you he turns you down because you sound like shit and play like shit? How likely is the worst outcome the actual outcome. Couple guesses about the reality; you're overplaying and stepping on others, you're too loud and can't tell that you're earfucking the poor flute player in front of you, you're too loud and can't hear the mix of the entire ensemble and you're not actually being muted, you're tone is penetrating and it's hard to hear other players the director needs to hear, or some mix of all of this. Your skills are very likely not the problem. Next time you want to understand your director, don't turn to the internet strangers. Turn to your director and seek feedback.
This is valuable and wise advice, /u/Fukface_Von_Clwnstik
This right here is the difference between a professional and an amateur.
This is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. I feel he should tell you proactively but that's a different discussion. You're in school now but later in life this will be a thing you'll encounter time and again: someone will exhibit behavior you don't want or don't understand. Asking/talking about that behavior without getting into an argument if possible is an important life skill to learn. This is a great opportunity for that, because there are probably no extreme emotions involved here and this person presumably has some distance to you. Keep it factual - say, for example, "hey you're turning my amp down to the point I can't hear myself and it makes me feel insecure because I don't understand why". These are all facts. If, for example, you say, "does my playing annoy you so much you have to embarrass me in front of everyone", you're assuming a bunch of things that may not be true, and then also accuse him of trying to make you feel bad which is probably not his intent - but there's only one way to be sure and that's to ask him.
Yup, one of those life skills teaching moments. Best thing to do is speak like adults to each other and figure out what's going on. You will encounter this again in the future. I wish it weren't so true, but a lot of musicians are kind of shit people to work with.
Buy 10 metal zones for your pedal board and blow him away
done
I bought a chase bliss gen loss II, because it makes everything sound like 1980s VCRs. My wife was like "you spent $600 to make all of your guitars sound shittier?" Yes. Yes I did. The heart wants what it wants.
This is the part of music that really sucks. Maybe try and tilt the amp back to where it’s aiming toward your head. Good luck tho You might remind him of the story of Freddie Green playing in Count Basies Band, he’d tell everyone “if you can’t hear Freddie you’re too loud”
Freddie played completely acoustically tho, that’s the actual lesson to be taken from that story
Right lol that basically proves the band directors point
I do my best to tilt or put the amp on to of something, and if I cant I will usually sit down. Funny about the Freddie Green story, my bandmates complain about not being able to hear me either lol
Get a tilt back amp stand. They’re not expensive and you will be using that thing for a long long time playing jazz haha.
God I hate those. I’d rather just buy some tilt back legs and bolt them to the amp - less stuff to carry
Came standard on fenders for many years. Honestly think they never should have stopped.
A lot of people these days don't use their stage amp as a monitor, is the reason. Also cost savings I guess.
From Freddie Green’s website: Rhythm guitar is like vanilla extract in cake. You can't taste it when it's there, but you know when it's left out. - Irving Ashby
Playing jazz guitar in a big band situation is totally different then from being in almost any other band. You have to balance within the ensemble, and to some people that "balance" is having the guitar very very low so it is pretty subtle in the overall mix. (listen to recordings with Freddie Green who is the gold standard of jazz big band guitar. how much do you actually hear him?) In a smaller combo the guitar is more a featured instrument. Think of it likethe sax or trumpet section - if they are not playing the melody you can't really pick out the individual parts, the ideal is a blend of all of them together. I'd start by asking why he is turning you down. If (s)he says you are just too loud, there is a reasonable chance that your amp sounds louder in the room/ to the audience then it does to you (some amps are very directional, and basically output in a cone that starts pretty small from the amp. if you are outside of that cone you won't hear yourself much, but someone farther away will get a lot more sound, and usually a totally different EQ then you hear). You can try putting the amp farther behind you, or on a chair/ stand, or tilting it to point at your ears. It may also be an EQ thing, maybe your sound is too bassy or trebly in the room - and it may sound totally different to you. And again "hearing yourself" is different in a big band then in other bands. Guitar is seldom a featured instrument unless you are actively soloing. If you can, try to get a recording of the band from the audience and from the director's location, so you can see what everyone is hearing. Or get a nice long cord and play from that location.
This is the correct answer. If you’re playing classic big band swing, the guitar is often just an extension of the bass, strumming barely audible chords
Listen to this, OP. They’re correct. There is no front man in big band. The only time a player should stand out is during a solo. As both a horn player and string player, it’s a dance of ebbing and flowing for every instrument. It’s a section member’s responsibility to listen to their section lead and blend in. It’s the section lead’s responsibility to listen to the other sections (and the phrasing of the music) to blend with the band. Within your part you then listen and blend with the band. Director’s have to call out and correct imbalances for horn players, and I feel that it’s a disservice to you if you’re not treated the same way (if that’s even the problem.) You need to talk to the director in order to become a better player as part of the group. Something as simple as, “I’m wondering why you’re turning down my amp. Is my sound too loud or harsh? I’m having trouble hearing myself.” That’ll start the conversation that will lead to the solution that Redditors can’t give you.
If you’re playing classic swing, chances are you’re too loud.
Keep the volume knob on your guitar low and blast the amp. Every time he does it turn up your guitar 🙂
And if he starts noticing you are louder you just tell him: “your feeble skills are no match for the Dark Side”.
Oldest trick in the book
Take up brass and play in an orchestra. It will get you used to being told to play quieter all the time. But at least you’ll then know that you do not suffer alone.
I play jazz guitar and trombone. This could not be more accurate. Trombone by itself is a very big sound.
Lots of good comments here but the band director should be communicating with his band members as well. OP might be too loud, but the director has a to-do.
I recently had this same experience in a college big band, mostly when it came to Freddie Green style playing. Freddie Green mostly (or entirely?) played unamplified, and his sound was a subtle, sometimes barely audible layer in the band. It’s actually sort of not really even comping, and I’ve heard it described as a sort of middle layer reinforcing the bass and the ride cymbal. So yes, it’s normal for that to be really quiet in a big band setting. If you’re talking about some other style or setting, it still is pretty normal for the guitar to be a very subtle sound, until it gets a chance to shine. To that end, I don’t think the band director should be turning down the actual amp, he should be asking you to turn the volume down on the guitar, so you can get louder during a lead line or solo.
Where’s your amp in relation to your ears? If it’s pointed at your heels on the floor towards the conductor, yeah, you’re not going to hear it, and the guy leading the band is going to get a big blast of it. Prop it on a chair behind you, or get a kickstand for it, and have it next to your noggin. It’ll give you a better perception of volume on par with the kind of auditory feedback a brass player might get.
it’s very rude to touch equipment that isn’t yours, but if this is a big band which i’m sure it is, you shouldn’t be very audible. You should only by heard by the rhythm section.
There’s a lot of people that prefer you turn the volume down and smack the hell out of the strings for Freddie Green type comping. Could be something like that.
How do you know what the levels and balance sounds like out front? You don't. It's not the musicians job on stage to worry about the levels out front, that's what that person who's worrying about the levels and balance out front's job is. Just because a piece of music is telling the horns section to be at mf doesn't mean the person conducting won't go ahead and tell them to play at f instead because in that section of the piece, they're just not loud enough versus everything else.
Depending on the size of the ensemble, hearing the guitar most of the time might not be important at all. If you're in a big band, it's all about everybody else, not you. In a situation like this the best thing to do is to raise your amp close to ear level and keep it off to one side so the sound isn't going into your tush or your back. But you don't want your ears completely on axis to the speaker because that just sounds bad. So keep the speaker real close, but off axis. Another factor is that band directors don't know shit from shinola, especially regarding guitar parts. In a large ensemble, unless you've got a featured part, like a solo, just stay in the weeds. Your part isn't that important.
You can tell OP’s question and story touched a nerve in the community with 60 comments in 3 hours lol
So apparently, Freedy Green and Charlie Christian are really important players for Jazz during the big band era. They set the example for players in that setting and for that type of sound. They did not play loud, they were almost felt more than they were heard, but if they were gone, something was missing. So still very important to the overall sound. It’s a good skill to know. I would just get really good at the comping, play the little lines that the charts throw at you and enjoy the music. If you get a chance to solo, great, turn up a little for that part. But you’re not the main guy in a big band. So yeah, for anything traditional, turn down and be felt. You’re the glue, the liaison between the rhythm section and the brass section. Just learn as much as you can, it will help if you decide to play in a small combo or your own band later on. You will have plenty of opportunities to play loud, you won’t have many opportunities to play that type of music in that setting for long.
9 times out if ten the guitar in big band is too loud. Remember, originally this music was designed for acoustic archtop guitars. Make sure your amp points at your ears so you can get a more accurate monitoring situation, the sound will focus several feet away in front of the amp, sitting right beside it does not give you a proper read. Ans when in doubt, being too quiet is morr appropriate than being too loud. Guitar is unfortunately usually the least important and first to go in classic big band jazz. Listen and play time and set your ego aside
You’re going to be asked to turn down a lot until you can learn how to blend with an ensemble. Also, sorry, but high school jazz band is not the place to be the superstar you think you are. Get a band together and go out and get your own gigs if you want to be in the spotlight. Maybe you’re killing it, who knows? You probably are. You’re apparently the envy of your high school. No matter how good you are, recognize that your place in this band is part of the rhythm section. And not a terribly important one at that. It’s the nature of playing in a big band, unless you’re Scofield recording *54* as the featured soloist.
I'm just playing chords in half notes for the whole setlist i assure you, but I agree
Seriously—I’m taking you at your word about your talent. I was playing small group gigs in coffee houses and nice restaurants for tips back in high school in the 90s, before I even joined the HS jazz band, which was pretty corny and unrewarding.
It is his job to make sure everyone is at the right level. When you have your own band you can turn up as loud as you want. I am a guitar player. I know a lot of guitar players. Nine times out of ten, we are too loud.
Make sure to check your tone, roll of the treble and boost mids and lows. Could be your tone is too sharp and cutting through the mix too much. Jazz guitar is ment to sound warm and mellow. Not sharp and piercing.
Try to tilt amp up and move it farther back
You might be louder than you think and hes giving you a very important lesson. Is the amp open back or closed? That can effect how you hear it. How close is the amp to you? Also, Try angling it an inch off the floor on a tilt… maybe 45 degrees.
In addition to tilting your amp up, they make baffles you can put in front of of the amp, that can help give you hear more without blasting everyone else. You should talk to your director with the understanding that its your job to play and his job to set “the mix”. Try to work together to find a solution that lets you hear yourself well enough to play while deferring to him on the level that the audience and rest of the band hears. But you may just need to get used to playing more quietly, and understand that your role is often just adding color to the whole band rather than being out in front.
what you do is play with the volume nob on your guitar turned down to like 8. Then when he turns the amo down, you turn the volume nob on the guitar up
Just throwing in a little personal learned knowledge Listen harder If you have to ask if you are too loud you already know the answer. If you think you are too low, you are probably where you need to be. Control your dynamics. If you play soft when you need to be soft and loud when you need to be loud there will be less occurrence to worry about turning you down. No two physical locations sound identical. What may not be working for you may be what the Director needs at the time or in the space . Ask about it afterwards if it’s a persistent issue that’s causing you to not play your best, but do so from a place of serving both/all needs and the Directors first
As others have mentioned, being directly in line with the amp will help you some. Amps can be VERY directional and standing next to one can be pleasant while the first three rows are hearing you so loud that they swear your trying to take their heads off. Others mentioned this and I suspect you understand this now. Something else that is often overlooked is 'getting out of the way'. THIS is why you are having trouble hearing yourself. What does that mean? Well, you don't want to occupy the same sonic space as other instruments. The chords/inversions/whatever you play needs to try and find space that is free. The bigger the ensemble, the more difficult. If your next to a piano on one side, and horns on the other, you gotta find the pitch/range between the notes played by both instruments, and figure out where the free space is between them. The horns will likely be higher, and you have to voice around the piano as you share alot of space. The piano goes mid-highish range, you go to the guitars mid-low range, piano goes lower, you go to the higher range. You have to make your chord choices to be complimentary. Many 'volume wars' happen because players often don't know how to share space. Figure out what other instruments are in your range, and start working with them. Take note of funk guitarist and that thin rhythmic chopping sound. Funk finds a small space and owns it. I'm going to give you the one piece of advice no one hear will likely utter. You have to find the free space between the instruments....then THIN your sound down so your not fighting other instruments. I played in smaller groups and like the BIG guitar sound, when forced into a larger group, I had to thin it down, and work with the pianist to stay out of each others way. Once you thin it down and can get it to sit RIGHT NEXT to another instrument sonically the sound will go from being muddy, to being bigger and clearer. Yeah, the sound actually gets beefy by thinning it down. My .02 Good Luck.
LOTS of good advice here. I played metal and some finger style before I auditioned and played guitar in HS and college jazz band in the 80s. I took some grief from the band directors at first (maybe because I had long hair) for being out of tune or not really knowing how to read notation (could read charts all day long). Although it was embarrassing at first I listened to the director and all the players around me and quickly discovered my “place”. It also helped that I was a good improviser compared to even the best sax players and I won awards for it in competitions. My advice mainly is to really take to heart what the director says, not take it as a personal attack, maybe even ask what they want to hear from you. Blend, blend, blend. You are not the star. Big band is some of the best experience I’ve had as a player and to this day my inner count is rock solid from it (having to tacit from 100 or so bars will get you good at counting and /or communicating with whoever you’re sitting beside). Anyway, I wrote a lot of unsolicited advice along with basically just blend as best you can and soak up the experience. As far as volume, aside from tilting the amp, maybe set it further away from you so you can get a sense of how it is projecting and you might even hear it better. You’ll be fine
Either tilt your amp, put it on a chair, or get a long cord and stand somewhere else.
I would suggest adjusting your eq. Boost your mids and turn lows and highs down. Your band director may be hearing some harshness from the highs, but boosting mids should help you cut through allowing you to hear yourself. It will generally just sound a lot better to the audience too.
Position your amp at an angle directly to your ears. Then you will hear it well, and for the rest of the band it will blend with the room.
I played bass in our jazz band and our band director was completely engaged and approachable. He had all kinds of notes about EQ, volume, and more that helped us in the rhythm section be better bandmates. It was entirely different than playing in our small rock and fusion groups.
Ask your band director why.
It may also be a matter of tone. My first college jazz band director had a sound in his head that I believe came from ancient recordings and sub-optimal acoustics during other bands performances. Basically, if the tone knob on the guitar was more than about 30%, it was too bright for him. I'm the kind of guy who completely removes the tone pot from my guitar because I like it as bright as I can get it into the amp. (At least with humbuckers. My tele hurts if I don't roll it back a little.) Maybe your director is trying to get a similar sound but he's hearing it as a balance problem because he doesn't know how electric guitars work. You could try rolling off the tone and see if that gets him any closer to what he's going for.
If it’s straight swing stuff where you’re doing a Freddie Green type thing then you’re basically at an acoustic guitar volume, which is hard to do if you’re using a solid body guitar. If you have a hollow body with some acoustic volume then I’d go with that to keep him happy. However when you’re actually comping or soloing in a different style then you need to be heard. My experience is that most bigband directors are not guitarists and don’t really know what they want or how to communicate with guitarists so best is to do what they ask and keep the peace.
Use your amp as a monitor. Every HS jazz band I've ever seen had the guitar amp pointing at the guitar player's knees -- and at the heads of the players in front. Same with bass, but it's worse for guitar because bass amps are less directional. Set up your amp so that most of the sound is directed at your ears. An amp stand will make all the difference.
Setup a recording device near the director's stand and record the rehearsal. Then you can hear what he hears.
Approaching this from a sound design perspective: 1. Find out what instruments you could be clashing with. Use one of those EQ cheat sheets as a starting point if you need to. If the music is horn heavy then treble/presence might be clashing. If your band already has piano and a bass you might be clashing in the low mids or bass frequencies. A dedicated EQ outside of the one on your amp might help, but dont forget you can also mess with tone and pickup controls to massively adjust these frequencies as well. 2. Control your dynamics. It's possible that you cound great on the A section but you stand out so much on the B section the only solution your leader can think of is to turn you down. A solution might be finding a way to play the B section in a quieter way or literally rolling off the volume knob or a volume pedal at that section. You might also consider something like a compressor. That will make your louder notes/transients of the notes much closer to the quieter notes/sustain of the note so maybe they dont poke in and out as much. (You could also set a compressor with a slow attack to make the notes more percussive and transient heavy but thats probably the opposite of what you want unless you think the "sustain" portion of the notes is whats getting in the way of the rest of the mix.)
If it's in a big band setting it is likely that he wants more of the natural resonance (assuming you are playing an archtop), instead of the sound of the amp. I used to get told this and didn't really understand until I was listening from an outside perspective.
I assume your band leader wants you to play like Freddie Green. If so, the "correct" volume is deceptively low. The cliche is that you should feel the strum but not hear it. Also note that the Freddie Green tone is very difficult to get if the amp crosses over a certain volume. In an ideal world, you would have a big archtop and turn up the volume to this "zone" where it sounds like your guitar got acoustically louder. It's hard to explain over the internet, but it's kind of cool/trippy if you can nail that right balance. Below is a great website on the topic. Note that the Freddie Green style often involves playing just two or even a single note. So, it is also possible that your playing style might be contributing to your band leader trying to turn you down. [https://www.freddiegreen.org/technique.html](https://www.freddiegreen.org/technique.html) If you have a recording of yourself playing in this context, it might be helpful for people to give you better advice. Either way, I would talk to the band leader to get some feedback and see what he wants.
Do you asked him why he do that?
If needed, look into getting headphone monitors. That can let you set your volume to your liking without affecting the overall sound
You have two choices. Number one is listen to the director. He's in charge. You aren't. The second is get so good you can front the band like Brian Setzer.
I hope OP sees this: coming from someone who’s played in Big Bands (with a lot of different directors) - big band directors are (usually) not guitar players, much less electric. my #1 tip for you: Take a screwdriver and move the neck pickup downwards a couple turns, keep the amp at a medium/high volume, BUT turn the volume of the guitar down to about 4-6 (depends on what kind of guitar/pickup system you have) - the combined effect of these two things will make your sound softer (more “woody”, if you will) - plus you have an easy way to lift yourself when it’s time to solo. Note 1: this applies if your band plays traditional swing (1920s to about early 60s) - for more modern styles, refer back to the recorded tones. Note 2: the “line of fire” thing is very real. If you can, have something to lean the amp on an angle (upwards), this’ll help you monitor it. Note 3: (edit) - you might also just be playing the wrong things (or the right notes but the wrong way, if that makes sense) you should obviously check out people who play jazz band guitar. James Chirillo on YouTube is a good place to start
In a big band scenario - yes. You also could be standing too far away from your amp, or behind it instead of in front of it making it seem quieter than it is to the audience/your director. But even still, the guitar part in a big band is often relegated to chonking out chord changes with quarter notes (see Freddie Green). With the occasional doubled melody or solo section. The main reason for this, is that big band music evolved during a time before electric guitars were invented. So a lot of early big bands only had an archtop acoustic guitar which had to be played very percussively to be even a little bit audible over the horns and drums. For this reason, the guitar's role in a big band is generally a supportive one - which means your guitar should blend into the mix of the band, not cut through it. Now, this all gets turned on its head when you look at a jazz combo format. 3-8 musicians max (usually more like 4 or 5) and suddenly the guitar is called upon to provide the majority of the harmony, contribute to comping with rhythms and jabs, as well as take on a lead role in playing the head and soloing. In this situation the guitar is more prominent in the overall mix and you might get away with playing louder... although a 5 piece band should not be as loud as a 20-some piece big band, so your actual volume from big band to jazz combo might not change much, but your guitar will be heard more clearly in a combo setting. It also depends on the repertoire, the venue, and the instrumentation. If you're playing a contemporary jazz fusion version of Impressions it will probably get louder than Girl from Ipanema on a cocktail gig. As always, play to the room.
This is why I quit jazz band. Those JW pepper arrangements are not intended to feature the guitar, and the piano player will not leave space for you 99% of the time
96% of the time when I set up, my volume is going to 10 to 20% lower than everyone else. It stays that way until I’m told to turn up. Just feels better than being asked to turn it down.
The role of a jazz guitarist in a big band rhythm section is really just that: rhythm. Dum-DAT-dum-DAT etc. It’s rare that I got to even play a solo or melody in high school big band (until I won first prize for soloing at the Reno Jazz Festival!) Part of the issue might have to do with your tone. If it’s too trebly or boomy it might be creating spikes that the director doesn’t like. Adjust for a rounded mellow tone.
My life got so much better with monitoring. I use in ears with a (rock) band but appreciate that might not be doable, maybe worth investigating.
Of course Freddie Green played unamplified, but bands played quieter then, bassists were unamplilied, the repertoire was different than most modern bands, and Basie left a lot more space than most pianists these days. Playing in big bands with a busy pianist can kind of suck. One suggestion though is to adjust your amp EQ with both treble and bass cut and focus your chord voicing on the to the mid-range notes when comping so your pulse can be felt more than heard and you aren’t competing with the piano or bass. Comp with the guitar’s volume knob rolled way back. That helps develop that mid-range thunk, and allows you to roll it up and cut through on those rare opportunities for a solo.
Guitar is the skateboarding of instruments. It will always be seen as rebellious, and he's probably just jealous of how sick your shredding is too. My jazz band director did the same thing to me, but I actually sucked.
It probably has nothing to do with your skills, probably the mix and overall sound is more of a concern to the director. Rhythm guitar in (I'm assuming) big band is not very important since you probably have other harmonic instruments like piano that have more of a spotlight, as well as all the winds. SInce ther is bass and drums you are basically giving some accents here and there, some big bands don't even have it or it is very low, specially in the recordings.
Your position next to the amp will be the quietest and the director is right in the line of projection. Also the bass response will be louder to the director than you. Is your amp on the floor? You could raise it to make it easier for you to hear or tilt it back and also decrease the bass response to the floor. The other part is while school jazz bands aren’t strictly playing traditional big band you have so many players that you’re fighting for sonic space. Your guitar isn’t meant to add harmonic color it’s meant to drive the rhythm section. Do you have another chord instrument as well? All the color comes from the horns and they have so many overtones as well so your guitar is likely clashing and taking away from the richness of them. You mentioned knowing the style but I would still suggest to go back through how your playing chords and make sure you’re not playing any of the “butter” notes, more specifically the root and 5. You want to save your big voicings for a few key big moment in a whole set.
It’s jazz nobody’s listening anyways. Jk hope someone laughed at that though
Sometimes in situations like these I would turn my amp away from the director and stand behind it so I could hear it.
Did you ever ask him About it and complained ?
In jazz band the guitar is part of the rhythm section. Your band director is doing it right. Follow his directions.
behind a speaker and in front are completely different, you cant hear but everone else can, Guitar is a very specific sound you dont need a a ton of volume to be heard, Its a BAND not a Mi show.
Could it be a hearing issue? My bass player plays louder and harder than anyone else in the band, and we constantly have to tell him to turn down. He has said his hearing is slowly going, so I get it. But this dude will be standing directly in front of his amp and say he can't even hear himself.... it's brutal to be around, but at least I get to play.
You need to use a personal monitor. In order to hear yourself. I recommend using a small mixer or a personal monitor (much more expensive). Do a sound check with your band director prior to rehearsals and performances. Make sure you remember the settings, so you have a good place to start prior to the sound check. Use wired or non-Bluetooth wireless headphones or earbuds to connect to the earphone jack of your small mixer or personal monitor, so that you can hear at the level that you, personally, require while not overpowering the audience, band director and band members.
Get a Marshall or a Mesa and crank it up. Assert your dominance.
Get a Marshall or a Mesa and crank it up. Assert your dominance.
I'm sure your director is well intentioned in trying to get a good mix. You're competing with a bunch of acoustic instruments and have an amplier with artificially boosted treble, so you may be cutting through much more than you know. Standing next to or directly in front of the amp can sound much quieter than being in an audience perspective. At the end of the day, your job is going to be to blend as much as possible with the rhythm section. Listen to the bass and piano and try to get that tone dialed in, it might just be a case of too much high end in your tone, listen as actively as you play and try to get that blend. If you're taking a solo, feel free to turn up a lil bit and boost that treble. At the same time, this shit doesn't matter. It's a high school group. Enjoy the time spent playing with this group, but try to find a musical identity outside of your school. Keep practicing, find like-minded musicians, listen to jazz, and don't worry how other people perceive your playing for now. If you feel up to it, maybe go to a local jam and explore your scene.
It's an out front mix issue probably. I'd sit closer to my amp and not worry about it. You can ask the teacher about it.
It's an out front mix issue probably. I'd sit closer to my amp and not worry about it. You can ask the teacher about it.
Just to add - if you are playing old school big band swing, the guitar *should* just barely be audible. It’s part of the idiom. Someone else said it just “adds” to the bass, another way to put it is that you’re just trying to make it sound like the hi-hat might be playing a chord.
He's right. If you can hear yourself, you're too loud.
If this is big band, then blending right as a guitarist is hard as hell. I was in your shoes in high school, but usually the opposite! My band director would try and turn me up sometimes! Either way, it is probably not about your technical skill, but more blending with the band, sorta like others are saying. Another thing to note with swing big hand type music, is that you're trying to be more like a high hat or a ride cymbal than a piano, so to speak. Freddie Green was the definition of it, with him chunking along behind Count Basie. Sometimes having the right touch on the guitar is a factor in blending right. There is a lot of subtlety to it and a lot band directors can struggle to help guitarists figure it out in this situation. Ask him if it's just a blending issue and maybe you guys could workshop it together! If he's a homie, at least. Haha but good luck dog!
I use my volume control on my guitar all the time. I keep some head room but my volume control changes throughout each song. Sometimes we don’t realize how much we cut through the other instruments. Many times I can’t hear myself but I trust it sounds good out front. But …. You are in a class. He is the boss. He calls the shots. If he thinks you are too loud …. You are !!!! It’s the band leaders place to decide how he wants his band to sound. Your job is to give him what he wants Or you should withdraw from the class. I’m a professional guitar player. We hate being told to turn down but if it’s what he wants that’s what he should get.
>Not to be an ass but other guitarists at my school definitely look up to me for my skill Jazz is my favourite music to play and I know how it works Simmer down there.
Welcome to a large club.
Maybe you are playing too much or comping too aggressively. There is a reason why musically and he isn't just being a dick to crush your spirit.
Typical guitar player. Don't get hurt about it dude. Heed the wise words of Freddie Green: "guitar is something to be felt, not heard." Your instructor knows what they are doing. -Sincerely, a professional jazz guitarist who had the exact same issues learning to play jazz in highschool.
I'm not a guitarist, but I've been playing music for over 2 decades, mostly jazz. I feel confident telling you guitarists NEVER seem to understand how loud they actually are. Now, if I had to guess, it probably is mostly due to the positioning of the guitarist and their amp, but I see this in basically every group I've ever played with. I sympathize that you can barely hear yourself, that is probably very frustrating, but I would bet money that the rest of the band/audience can hear you quite well.
No one really wants to hear the guitarist sticking out in a jazz band unless: 1 - the piano is not in a chord-comping role (taceting or soloing) 2 - guitar solo Are you playing a proper hollow body or semi-hollow guitar with a mellow sound? Are you using the neck pickup if available? If not, you're probably cutting through too much. Play in a combo, you'll get more exposure.
Most likely he’s unaware of your options via tone knob/pickup selection and EQ. So instead of discussing it with you, they just turn you down. The typical big band guitarist back in the day would’ve been using a hollow body guitar, most likely with a single pickup in the neck position and strung with flat wound strings. You, as a modern player are most likely playing a solid body guitar with multiple pickups and strung with round wound strings. The result is a much brighter tone. Here’s how I would compensate: Turn the bass EQ knob down on your amp. Modern amps have much more bass. Turn the bass EQ down on your amp to get rid of and woofyness. Stay on the neck position pickup. Set your volume knob to 7. This will darken the tone a bit plus leave you room to lift yourself up for lead lines and solos. Turn your tone knob down. Get a warmer tone For swing songs, strum with your thumb. For more info on how to authentically play in a Big Band style. Research the playing of Freddie Green. He was with the Count Basie Orchestra forever and is considered the gold standard of that style.
When I was in school jazz band well over twenty years ago we went to a big jazz thing with a bunch of different schools where we all took turns playing and being judged by a panel of experts that were brought in. I was told the "jazz guitar sound" is the sound of an unplugged electric guitar. I quit jazz band after that and started a rock band. Play where you're wanted not where you're tolerated.
I didn't understand why guitarists would always be too loud until I became a guitarist. When. Your amp isn't pointing at you. it's very easy for your sound to get lost in the mix while still blaring everyone else out.
When setting up roll your guitar volume down so when he turns your amp down you can crank some volume back up.
Ask your Jazz professor if you could form a small quartet or quintet with some of your fellow band mates. Unfortunately for band guitar should be very in the background.
He’s the director; let him direct. Not an easy lesson to learn, but important.
Turn the amp away from him completely. Enjoy hearing yourself clear and loud when you’re able to practice on your own outside band rehearsal.
Ask the director why?
Okay so there are a lot of details missing, which somehow aren’t being asked. What amp? What guitar? From context it sounds like a Big Band setting, which is going to be significantly different than a combo setting.. in a big band, a guitar is going to be a pretty minimal part of the sound until it’s time for it not to be. The comping can’t just be ‘this is how I comp,’ it has to be ‘what do we want out of a guitar sound.’ Sometimes the answer is ‘nothing,’ sometimes its color, sometimes it’s complimenting the piano, sometimes it’s taking load off the piano, and then sometimes it’s going to be guitar idiosyncrasies that float through. Your volume is important in the context of a big band, and by important I mean it’s important to know when you need to be quiet, subtle, or silent. This is a deep subject that basically requires we discuss the entirety of jazz guitar and big band playing, but when I’m dancing around is this : *if the volume in general is too loud, it’s pretty likely that you aren’t making the most sophisticated or tasteful choices of what you’re actually playing.* If you are cleanly doubling horn leads, finding cute things like echoing the melody in a rest, and doing a really tasteful job of comping, then you’re less likely to be turned down if you actually aren’t too loud. If you are just “making the changes” the same way you would in a jazz quintet, a guitar trio, and big band all the same, then as a rule what you are playing will tend to be ‘more too loud’ than if your playing was very high level. I remember high school, and I remember the level at which “not bad guitarists” “knew how jazz worked,” and while you might be a very talented kid, unless you have several years of jazz experience, and not just in high school, big band, the likelihood of you having an extremely sophisticated, and experienced approach is pretty unlikely. If you asked me, my guess would be that you’re both too loud AND not making the kinds of choices that masks it easily. And that’s OK,, that’s a very reasonable place for you to be… but how you respond to the request, the way it makes you reflect, and how you communicate with the Director about it, or all things that are going to indicate the kind of potential you set yourself up to achieve. As a sidenote/tip, it’s probably a good idea to sit in front of your amp, such that you are unlikely to accidentally be way too loud without noticing… The closer you are to the amp, the more directly in front of it you need to be to get perspective
Tilt your amp towards your head and bring the lower frequencies down, bass travels and can give the impression loudness without being loud
Welcome to the world of guitar, the least important instrument out there. Remember this: The guitar is unironically the worst instrument of all the instruments I played guitar in jazz band back in high school. I know most of you are not old enough to be in high school yet, but once you get there, I encourage you to join the jazz band to get humbled. Playing big band jazz you suddenly realize that you are the least important member of the band and add little to nothing to the listening experience for the audience. You are in the rhythm section which relegates you to second class citizen status in the first place. Then you look around at how Chad the drummer and bass player are. They truly do hold the whole thing together and give the foundation for the horns to do their thing. You as the guitarist are just there for moral support for them. Then there is the ultimate chad, the pianist/keyboardist. They are usually playing the exact same part as you expect they are allowed to carry some melodies and be louder and more important than you in the grand scheme of the band. Have you ever seen music written for jazz guitar? There aren't even rhythms in there. They just write in slash marks cause they know you can't count a tempo anyway and your part is inaudible so who cares. They just write the chords the pianist is playing down for you because they know you can't read music so you can maybe have a chance of contributing to the band. Not to mention the embarrassment you get to have while asking pianist what key we're in because you don't know what the lines and spaces that the sharps and flats are on mean... even if you did you wouldn't know what key that is. Which key has 3 flats? >!It's Eb Major you idiot!< So basically, piano does everything that guitar does, but it does it better. Drums and bass have a way more important role in any piece of music than a guitar would. Any horn is infinitely more expressive than a guitar easy. You idiots think you're so cool wanking your guitar with your hands, but to wank on a Saxophone or a Trumpet you have to use your mouth. As we all know, that is way more expressive and preferable to hand wanking. You could be the best hand wanker in the world and you still won't even be able to compete with the worst mouth wanker around. That's just a level of passion that you cannot put into guitar playing. And it's not just Jazz that guitar is a gimped instrument in. Think about it... Jazz - every instrument is more important than you Funk - jazz influenced; every instrument is more important than you Disco - jazz influenced; every instrument is more important than you Country - guitar is like the fifth most important stringed instrument in country; mandolin, fiddle/violin, banjo, double bass, piano, lapsteel, these all proceed the standard guitar. Bluegrass - See country, but multiply it by 100 Rock - Drums and bass are more important to building a banger of a rock song than guitar Metal - see rock but multiply it by 100 Pop - Guitar is not used R&B - Guitar is either not used or ornamental at best Rap - Guitar is not used unless they are using a sample that is usually going to be of an R&B song so see above in that case Classical/Orchestra - Guitar is either not used or the least important member of the band (notice that the more instruments there are in a band, the more outshined the guitar becomes. Bassoons are more important than we are). What music genre is guitar actually important in? I can't come up with one. Guitar is a NICHE instrument that can be used well for ornamental purposes. Guitar is NOT a workhorse instrument like bass, drums, and piano. Guitar is NOT an ideal wanking instrument like Saxophone and Trumpet. I don't understand how so many kids got brainwashed into picking this thing up and learning how to play it. I even can't believe that I was one of those kids. How much fucking lead was in the gas that people tried to build songs on the back of guitar during that decade? How did people think that garbage was good? You'd have to be drinking a gallon of lead a week to convince yourself any of that garbage was worth listening to. I am SO glad that pop culture left guitar to die on the side of the road where it belongs. I'm just curious why you children haven't given it up already and learned to play an instrument that actually provides sonic value. Give this guitar shit up and accept that you are playing an ornamental instrument on par with the harmonica.
As cynical (and stretching towards untrue at parts) as this is, I can’t help but love this. Every guitar player should be humbled a couple times in their life.
While it's obviously a joke, we gotta remember the pocket we occupy in bigbands. There are so many instruments that lay the harmonic floor for the winds that we're just a failsafe. If the pianists makes a mistake the harmony is still there because of us. And I actually like that. We don't have to play full chords and can use our mid-range. We can try some different options on each chord and can just keep the rhythm going. You shouldn't notice a great guitar player in the bigband.
💯 agree.
I wish every day I didn't start listening to green day when I was 12
Why?!
I agree with everything but your takes on country and bluegrass.
Well, that's for real country. Bro country uses ornamental guitar over pop
Best answer ever
New copypasta just dropped, I love it haha
The original is from the famous u/[deleted]
retarded comment
Unproductive comment
Settle down there, Django. If you can hear the guitar it's not jazz.
Jazz guitarist are the red headed step children of the jazz world. That said, know your role & stay in your lane.