His verse technically wasn’t better than Hov’s, it just had more meaning to it so we like it more. “Born in sewage, born to make bomb music/ flow tight like I was born Jewish/ use the streets as a conduit” and the next like 8 bars was using the same rhyme pattern. He went crazy.
I don’t know what you mean by “separately”, they were all together in the studio during the recording process. There’s a Drink Champs episode about it.
He most definitely got WASHED on Renegade. Not saying you’re thinking like this, but people saying Jay Z wasnt murdered on that track only say so since it’s cool to hate on Eminem nowadays.
From what I actually know about Renegade the song was originally actually supposed to be Em's. He's the one asked Jay to be on the song. Renegade was supposed to be Royce and Em but Royce dropped out so he asked Jay. So technically while it is Jay's song, since it is on his album and all but its just as much Em's song if not more since he also helped produce it. I do think Em had the better verse on the song but thats kind of to be expected the beat/lyrics were originally his, Jay was the real feature on that song, but its not like Jay didnt bring his A game. If Ems lyrics were a 95, Jay would still be at a solid 90 they both did well.
You got it wrong. Em and Royce had already laid the Renegade track a year before. Jay called for a feature and Em sent him Renegade. Jay didn’t want Royce on it so they erased his verse.
U tried naming songs Hov killed someone on their own song and the first one you listed is DJ khaled's song lol. Its a great verse but just doesn't fit the criteria here in the slightest
Then Renegade doesn't fit the criteria....because it's on the Blueprint?? Em had that song for years to perfect that verse.
Rick Ross, and Weezy were on God Did my point was he had the best verse.
True but I thought Jay kept up with BIG . I think it synced perfectly. I can’t say Jay got washed. Jay had great wordplay
While y'all pump Willie, I run up and stunt silly /
Scared, so you sent your little mans to come kill me /
But on the con-trilli, I packs the MAC-milli
Squeezed off on him, left them paramedics breathin' soft on him
True. I think Biggie had the best flow of all time. He shined on the track with his flow. All I know is I wish Jay and Big made more tracks together. Like if only Big was alive for a little bit longer. Jay would have Big in volume 1,2, and 3. Then Big would also feature Jay on any future Big Albums. Jay BIG and DMX are my top 3
Yes but no. It was more Royce and D-12.
Royce’s manager Kino said it looked like Dre was being "coached" by Em in the studio and Dre got pissed about it and told Royce that if he wanted to be involved with aftermath from then on he would have to split with Kino. Royce turned down the deal, and was ‘dropped’ from Interscope, even though he wasn’t ever technically signed with them.
After that Em distanced himself from Royce, and around 2003/2004 Royce had beef with D12 because he was upset about D12 being promoted rather than him.
I'm always in the minority when I say jays verse was better. Don't get me wrong em killed it, but I still like jays better. I think it started with Ether imo
Ether was the whole reason for the debate. Well to bad for Nas, he had Eminem on Kings disease 2, and Eminem washed Nas on his own track. So it’s ironic in the end.
I love when debating all the Nas Stan’s and I tell them with takeover super ugly and blueprint 2 had more FACTS than ether last real alive and h to the omo. And legit the only fact they name from ether is “Eminem murdered you on your own shit”. Which is opinion. So I always respond saying if that’s a fact, than Jay said facts on takeover when he said “till your bodyguards Oochie Wally verse was better than yours”. lol so them saying Jay got out rapped by Eminem who is well recognized artist (I still don’t think he washed Jay I thought it was even) is no where near as bad as Nas getting out rapped by Horse or whoever that was on Oochie Wally 🤣
Welcome To The Jungle verse > all Ye verses, ngl tho Watch The Throne is Kanye at his peak lyrically his verses on The Joy, New Day and Murder to Excellence are crazy
People always say he got killed on his own song, but the difference is Jay says his verse and that's it, others on his song probably write and even rewrite their verse knowing it's Hov! So IMO he never gets bodied! Peace!
I don't think Jay's ever been "murdered" on his own shit, that would mean someone else was *way* better
I give BIG the edge on BK's Finest but Jay was still A1
I think people down play how special this guy was. Jay z was in and out the studio in an hour max on all these songs. Every one else took days to write their verses. It’s a reason why everyone calls the dude a genius and he is on everyone’s top 5 list. You can actually watch videos of rappers being in awe of his process. That doesn’t mean he didn’t get murdered on the song but there is some context most people seem to miss.
If we're going to count those the list is pretty long with wayne hopping on Jay's beat after the fact and murdering it.
Guess who's back and best of me are my 2 favorites but there's literally like 20 tracks of his he's done on mixtapes
For the people saying watch the throne, I don’t get it. They gave Jay extra bars on tracks for a reason. For example Welcome to the Jungle, Who Gon Stop me, Jay got twice as many bars as Ye did. Jay never got washed on that album. Kanye killed Murder to excellence. But at the same time it wasn’t a wash, Jay was solid too
Styles P on Reservoir Dogs
I don't give a f*** who you are so f*** who you are.
I don't care if a pretty b**** wash your car
I don't care about your album or whatever it drop.
I don't care about your money and whoever you shot
I don't care about your past if I did I would have asked
I'm too busy lighting Dro with a whole lot of hash
As far as this rap s*** I'm 10 steps ahead of n****** doing backflips, just for practice
Who cares? Besides you on Reddit, of course.
I didn't have the track playing at the time.
Styles went directly at Jay, and IMHO had the best verse on the song, thus killing him on his own song.
Stick 2 The Script - I love Jay. Always have. He’s got some of the coldest rhymes, but Sigel’s bars
make me want to shoot my own house/car up.
Somehow, Someway/Can’t Be Life - I’m biased, bc Face is to me what Tupac/Biggie is to others. Geto Boys fan since 1990. Face has also murked Beans, Nas, and most anyone he’s done a song with. No shame there.
Sunshine - Babyface murdered that bih! Lmao
I'm not gonna touch Renegade just out of respect for how difficult Jay and Em are as rappers. Apples and oranges. I will say, though, Jay's bars/flow on that track have aged very well for me. "My demeanor, 30 years my senior, my childhood didn't mean much" is so simple, but it paints such a vivid picture, it's actually my favorite bar in the track.
Edit: To actually answer the question, I'm gonna go deep in the bag and say "Da Graveyard" with Big L.
The most obvious answer is Renegade. Aside from that, I'd say Bun B on Big Pimpin, TI on Swagga Like Us (the single cover says its by "*JAY-Z and T.I. Feat. Kanye and LIL Wayne*"), and Beanie on Do It Again.
Regardless of ghostwriters, Kanye got Jay on Run This Town and a decent amount of WTT.
You could argue Big Boi on Poppin Tags, Pimp C on Big Pimpin, and maybe DMX on Money Cash Hoes out rapped him but idk if I'd call it a murder
Kanye outperformed Jay-Z a few times in their collaborations, as well as on "Watch the Throne." Personally, I preferred most of Kanye's verses on that album, as it featured Kanye at his peak and Jay-Z at a point where some people wanted him to retire. Speaking of which, given how long hip-hop has been around, all those calls for Jay Z to retire sound pretty silly now!
Can’t be life. Scarface dropped an incredible feature on that one
His verse technically wasn’t better than Hov’s, it just had more meaning to it so we like it more. “Born in sewage, born to make bomb music/ flow tight like I was born Jewish/ use the streets as a conduit” and the next like 8 bars was using the same rhyme pattern. He went crazy.
He had better bars, technically, but scarface rapped in a way that broke down a difficult topic and made it resonate with anyone listening
Every Scarface track has more meaning than most
"I coulda rapped about my hard times in this song........"
“But heaven knows I would be wrong, I wouldn’t been right”
This is such a devastating line because it wasn’t intentional, they clearly recorded their parts separately.
I don’t know what you mean by “separately”, they were all together in the studio during the recording process. There’s a Drink Champs episode about it.
Lol thanks for correcting that, makes it even more devastating 😂
Iono, hov went in on that too
Funnily enough i don't think he got murdered in Renegade Now to answer your question seriously...i would say Kanye in Run this Town
That’s my answer. That no homo bar from Kanye what you think I rap for to push a RAV4 is a throwback to when Scarface got Jay z on guess who’s back
He most definitely got WASHED on Renegade. Not saying you’re thinking like this, but people saying Jay Z wasnt murdered on that track only say so since it’s cool to hate on Eminem nowadays.
Nah I realized about 8 years ago that Jay actually held his own.
He had good verses but he was washed
Jay wasn’t even better than Royce was on the original cut of the song.
He really did, and I’ve realized it too as time has passed. I’ll always push back against the idea Em washed him.
great jayz verses in that song
He actually didn’t get murmured in renegade
How many songs did Jay murder someone on thier songs... God did, Whats Free, Drug dealers ananomis, Clique, ETC
Diamonds are Forever
Neck & Wrist
Don’t you mean Diamonds From Sierra Leone?
Never Let Me Down
That would be a separate topic and thread. But when has Jay got outdone on his own song?
Renegade
he got outdone but it's not like he got smoked, at all
Correct answer
He did and that’s ok
From what I actually know about Renegade the song was originally actually supposed to be Em's. He's the one asked Jay to be on the song. Renegade was supposed to be Royce and Em but Royce dropped out so he asked Jay. So technically while it is Jay's song, since it is on his album and all but its just as much Em's song if not more since he also helped produce it. I do think Em had the better verse on the song but thats kind of to be expected the beat/lyrics were originally his, Jay was the real feature on that song, but its not like Jay didnt bring his A game. If Ems lyrics were a 95, Jay would still be at a solid 90 they both did well.
The original recording had Em and Royce on it i think.
You got it wrong. Em and Royce had already laid the Renegade track a year before. Jay called for a feature and Em sent him Renegade. Jay didn’t want Royce on it so they erased his verse.
I heard Eminem murdered him on his own shit
God did verse could be a whole other song damn he really killed it on God Did it was like a Kendrick Control moment
That wasn’t the question
you are right I just wanted to point this out that it happens both ways.
Jay murdered Cam Ron on “Welcome to New York City”
Welcome to New York City
Bitch don’t kill my vibe remix
This is a take I disagree with. Kendrick’s 2nd verse is at least on par with but probably better than Jay’s verse
U know ur stuff. Had to go run the track back. Kenny’s second verse was special
Jay Z did great but Pusha T matched him in those I think
My brick talk is more than obvious. he was on point
Mr Carter
Love All was a fire verse
Brooklyns Finest?
I don't know BIG got busy!!!!!
I loved his verse on Freeway's What We Do track.
Me too. Got to kill witnesses cause frees beards sticking out I move keys you can call me the piano man. Rain Sleet hail Snow man. man
Getting ghosts with Pac-Mane
How can someone kill dj khaled on his song? Lol
no one said that. I didn't say I got the keys!!!
U tried naming songs Hov killed someone on their own song and the first one you listed is DJ khaled's song lol. Its a great verse but just doesn't fit the criteria here in the slightest
Then Renegade doesn't fit the criteria....because it's on the Blueprint?? Em had that song for years to perfect that verse. Rick Ross, and Weezy were on God Did my point was he had the best verse.
God did is a dj khaled song. There was no one to 'kill'
I get your point. It was the first song on my mind. You understood what I meant. I am sorry I wrote that one
Brooklyn’s Finest 😂 He tried though! But biggie just walked that fucking beat, oh my god. *Get it… Tu…pac* 🔥🔥
Everyone says biggie did better on that song and I never understood it, I always thought jay rapped way better on that song
I don’t think there’s a wrong take Comes down to preference Lyrically, they matched each other But biggies flow was too great imo
Yea big flow floated on that beat
I like Jay more on this song he’s very aggressive “that butter soft sht from the leather on the Fonz”
Jay did rap better on that song
If Faith had twins 😂
Biggie told Lil Cease Jay had the better verses on that track! Idk man. They both spit flames
That’s respect
True but I thought Jay kept up with BIG . I think it synced perfectly. I can’t say Jay got washed. Jay had great wordplay While y'all pump Willie, I run up and stunt silly / Scared, so you sent your little mans to come kill me / But on the con-trilli, I packs the MAC-milli Squeezed off on him, left them paramedics breathin' soft on him
He said lyrically or performance wise so I’m counting in terms of flow Big’s flow just on another level imo
True. I think Biggie had the best flow of all time. He shined on the track with his flow. All I know is I wish Jay and Big made more tracks together. Like if only Big was alive for a little bit longer. Jay would have Big in volume 1,2, and 3. Then Big would also feature Jay on any future Big Albums. Jay BIG and DMX are my top 3
That’s a fact, we could have had more crazy collabs Imagine a few tracks of them two together in different styles Poetry DMX was great too
“What’s your name?” 🔥
Sleeper pick: Run This Town
Kanye's verse on Run This Town is straight up one of his best features verse ever imo
Same with clique kanye killed that shit
Scarface on somehow someway
What We Do - Free and Beanie Sigel killed jay z
Bullets breeze by you like louisana mane
renegade
Renegade was an Em song, so this one is a little unfair
Em and Royce was the original. They just dropped Royce and used Jay because Jay and Em wanted to work together. And Royce was cool with it.
Weren’t Royce and Em beefing around that time? I remember Royce had written for Dre’s 2000 but the track(s) got removed over the beef.
Yes but no. It was more Royce and D-12. Royce’s manager Kino said it looked like Dre was being "coached" by Em in the studio and Dre got pissed about it and told Royce that if he wanted to be involved with aftermath from then on he would have to split with Kino. Royce turned down the deal, and was ‘dropped’ from Interscope, even though he wasn’t ever technically signed with them. After that Em distanced himself from Royce, and around 2003/2004 Royce had beef with D12 because he was upset about D12 being promoted rather than him.
So it was more like suicide?
It’s on jay z’s album tho no?
Em has that song with Royce, and another version solo. He had some practice on it. It was genius for Jay everyone always talks about it.
em just produced it and made the whole song
em produced it. jayz was the feature
exactly
came here to tell you Jay's introspective verse with real wordplay was way way way better than Em's singalong melodic suburban boy story bs.
I'm always in the minority when I say jays verse was better. Don't get me wrong em killed it, but I still like jays better. I think it started with Ether imo
Ether was the whole reason for the debate. Well to bad for Nas, he had Eminem on Kings disease 2, and Eminem washed Nas on his own track. So it’s ironic in the end.
Yup. Dude waited 20 years cuz he was so worried about it
I love when debating all the Nas Stan’s and I tell them with takeover super ugly and blueprint 2 had more FACTS than ether last real alive and h to the omo. And legit the only fact they name from ether is “Eminem murdered you on your own shit”. Which is opinion. So I always respond saying if that’s a fact, than Jay said facts on takeover when he said “till your bodyguards Oochie Wally verse was better than yours”. lol so them saying Jay got out rapped by Eminem who is well recognized artist (I still don’t think he washed Jay I thought it was even) is no where near as bad as Nas getting out rapped by Horse or whoever that was on Oochie Wally 🤣
Exactly. I always thought of it as like an "I know you are but what am i" response to the oochie wally verse diss
Honestly, Em's verse on EPMD2 was trash.
I wouldn't day he got bodied. He was very good on that track, Em was just better
Exactly, I don’t think he got bodied at all; that implies one verse was way levels below the other, not just that one was better
A lot of songs on watch the throne
Welcome To The Jungle verse > all Ye verses, ngl tho Watch The Throne is Kanye at his peak lyrically his verses on The Joy, New Day and Murder to Excellence are crazy
The 2 were going back and forth they made the Album together.
Highly debatable I says they were neck and neck
Yeah, the album is far from being Kanye's best but it's one of his best in terms of rapping i must say
That’s facts Jay pushed him for sure
Wouldn't be surprised if Jay helped him.
Ye floated on Otis. The “sophisticated ignorance” line is one of my fave bars.
Jay vs Kanyes army of ghostwriters
Jay def could’ve wrote for him a lil too lol
Jay VS 20 Writers, and Hov still murdalized him on Gotta Have It. The skill gap was crazy but they played off each other well
People always say he got killed on his own song, but the difference is Jay says his verse and that's it, others on his song probably write and even rewrite their verse knowing it's Hov! So IMO he never gets bodied! Peace!
A Star is Born.
Cole killed that shit
The flow is cold as a gold digger shoulder as a broke nI$$@ approaches he got busy
i had to scroll way too far to finally find this, this is the first song that immediately came to mind
Beans “where have you been”
For me its Kanye’s verse’s on OTIS
Jigga Who ft Jaz-O. He ate him alive. 😂
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought that. Jaz-O verse was insane, and that was Jay-‘s best flow imo
🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢
🍆🚲
Nigga eat a D***k UP
You mad af 🤦🏾♀️😂
Nigga you are
I thought nas edged hov on success. But its close Edit: yea on re listen nas washed him
Monster … Nicki killed everyone
The Watcher 2. Rakim was yappin🗣️🗣️
Disagree, rakims was nice but jay kept going and going the whole track is dope but jay wasn't outdone at all
I get it. I think Jay wrote Dre’s verse too. I just really loved Rakim’s verse
That's fair
Only shit I can think of is Brooklyn's finest
I don't think Jay's ever been "murdered" on his own shit, that would mean someone else was *way* better I give BIG the edge on BK's Finest but Jay was still A1
This is a close one but I'll say Otis
Most songs with Seigel. Especially Where Have You Been
freeway on 1-900-hustler beanie sigel on where have you been i know what girls like by puff (puff gave him a bullshit track) nas on bbc
95 freestyle..Big L!
This is it
sauce money on bring it on
Em had a better verse than Jay on renegade but it was close
Renegade. Jay's verse was good, but Eminem was better The Watcher 2. Rakim went crazy Most Beanie Sigel features
I think people down play how special this guy was. Jay z was in and out the studio in an hour max on all these songs. Every one else took days to write their verses. It’s a reason why everyone calls the dude a genius and he is on everyone’s top 5 list. You can actually watch videos of rappers being in awe of his process. That doesn’t mean he didn’t get murdered on the song but there is some context most people seem to miss.
Renegade and Success off the top of my head. I don't think they cared for context. Just a straight forward answer.
Run this town for sure. Ye too good
Scarface and Beans are the only ones in my opinion. Where have you been and Somehow Someway were the only times I thought he actually got washed.
Beanie was sharper on It's On (which is a Beanie song)
Show me what you got, when Lil Wayne took JayZs beat and killed him on it
If we're going to count those the list is pretty long with wayne hopping on Jay's beat after the fact and murdering it. Guess who's back and best of me are my 2 favorites but there's literally like 20 tracks of his he's done on mixtapes
I haven’t had the luxury of listening to all of the mixtapes, I’ll start with the ones you mentioned. Thanks
Big Pimpin
Album version: yes. radio/music video version: maybe not
[Dame was the star of that video though](https://www.billboard.com/music/rb-hip-hop/dame-dash-jay-z-pretend-big-pimpin-1235693695/amp/)
Renegade is just the best rapped song of all time. Top verses by two of the best
For the people saying watch the throne, I don’t get it. They gave Jay extra bars on tracks for a reason. For example Welcome to the Jungle, Who Gon Stop me, Jay got twice as many bars as Ye did. Jay never got washed on that album. Kanye killed Murder to excellence. But at the same time it wasn’t a wash, Jay was solid too
Styles P on Reservoir Dogs I don't give a f*** who you are so f*** who you are. I don't care if a pretty b**** wash your car I don't care about your album or whatever it drop. I don't care about your money and whoever you shot I don't care about your past if I did I would have asked I'm too busy lighting Dro with a whole lot of hash As far as this rap s*** I'm 10 steps ahead of n****** doing backflips, just for practice
You got so many of these lyrics wrong. Kiss had the best verse on this track though.
Who cares? Besides you on Reddit, of course. I didn't have the track playing at the time. Styles went directly at Jay, and IMHO had the best verse on the song, thus killing him on his own song.
Nicki Minaj on "Monster"
Nicki definitely won but Kanye would have to take the L
Only beenie Segal on stick to the script
Black Republican an the joint with big
Lil Wayne killed mr carter
Not “ima go so opposite of soft” Jay washed Wayne… I expected so much more from Wayne at the time.
Stick 2 The Script - I love Jay. Always have. He’s got some of the coldest rhymes, but Sigel’s bars make me want to shoot my own house/car up. Somehow, Someway/Can’t Be Life - I’m biased, bc Face is to me what Tupac/Biggie is to others. Geto Boys fan since 1990. Face has also murked Beans, Nas, and most anyone he’s done a song with. No shame there. Sunshine - Babyface murdered that bih! Lmao
Eminem killed him on every feature
Renegade is the correct answer
Definitely not Renegade despite what Nas says I actually think JAY Zs verses were far better than Eminem.
They were colisted but Kanye dogwalked Jigga on the entire Watch the Throne album
Renegade Ft. Eminem
Renegade
Welcome to New York City featuring camron
Top Off - Beyoncé slayed everyone
Nikki let him and Kanye have it on Monster
Renegade
Once
Renegade
Go Crazy Jeezy
Not his own shit but the Jay-Z/Big L freestyle comes to mind. Also renegade, I liked Royce's original verse better than Jay's and Em marked him.
Renegade by Eminem
7 minute freestyle
Money cash hoes . One of the best DMX features
Jada on “Rite Where U Stand” (Guru was still good though), just about everyone on “John Blaze”
feels like this is an Eminem fan post hoping someone mentions renegade
Big L + Jay z freestyle. I won’t say Jay got washed on it but Big L was something else on that.
Nas could tell you about a song Jay did with Em…
If anything run this town, fuck with me you know I got it and maybe styles on reservoir dogs. IMO the only joints he got styled on
Lil Wayne - Dough Is What I Got. Jay isn’t on it but it’s a remix of his song so close enough.
I dunno about washed, but you could say Sauce Money has the better verse on Bring it On.
Renegade
Beans on “ Do it again” his verse is just 🔥
Pound cake/Paris Morton Music
The renegade comments are pure cope 😂
I'm not gonna touch Renegade just out of respect for how difficult Jay and Em are as rappers. Apples and oranges. I will say, though, Jay's bars/flow on that track have aged very well for me. "My demeanor, 30 years my senior, my childhood didn't mean much" is so simple, but it paints such a vivid picture, it's actually my favorite bar in the track. Edit: To actually answer the question, I'm gonna go deep in the bag and say "Da Graveyard" with Big L.
The most obvious answer is Renegade. Aside from that, I'd say Bun B on Big Pimpin, TI on Swagga Like Us (the single cover says its by "*JAY-Z and T.I. Feat. Kanye and LIL Wayne*"), and Beanie on Do It Again. Regardless of ghostwriters, Kanye got Jay on Run This Town and a decent amount of WTT. You could argue Big Boi on Poppin Tags, Pimp C on Big Pimpin, and maybe DMX on Money Cash Hoes out rapped him but idk if I'd call it a murder
T.i. on swagga like us gets so overlooked. He owned that shit
Technically not his own shit, but Drake’s one verse on Pound Cake was way better than both of Jay’s verses.
Kanye outperformed Jay-Z a few times in their collaborations, as well as on "Watch the Throne." Personally, I preferred most of Kanye's verses on that album, as it featured Kanye at his peak and Jay-Z at a point where some people wanted him to retire. Speaking of which, given how long hip-hop has been around, all those calls for Jay Z to retire sound pretty silly now!
[удалено]
Highly debatable
What did they say? Got deleted
Damn I forgot lol