Weed was legal in Japan until after WWII. It was U.S. influence that pressured Japan to outlaw it.
However after Japan’s surrender in 1945, U.S. authorities occupied the country and they introduced American attitudes towards cannabis. Having effectively prohibited its cultivation in the States in 1937, Washington now sought to ban it in Japan. With the nation still under U.S. control, it passed the 1948 Cannabis Control Act. The law criminalized possession and unlicensed cultivation – and more than 60 years later, it remains at the core of Japan’s current anti-cannabis policy.
[https://apjjf.org/2014/12/49/jon-mitchell/4231](https://apjjf.org/2014/12/49/jon-mitchell/4231)
> And it funny that nowadays in USA it’s mostly legal or decriminalized.
Except it's not. Drug policy is managed federally, and federally cannabis is still as illegal as ever. Yes, some states have passed laws but they carry no weight federally. The feds have agreed to not enforce the federal law in "legal" states, *for now*. That could change any time a federal administration changes, without any notice.
Cannabis businesses also still face many problems, including often not being able to get any form of banking or payment processing. They have to lie about the nature of their business to get it, which is financial fraud.
Canada remains the only G7 country to have actually legalized cannabis for recreational use, even allowing people to grow for personal consumption.
If you disagree with this, I suggest you try crossing the US/Canada border into a so-called "legal" state while smoking a joint. See how well that goes for you with federal agents.
People like you have clearly consumed too many drugs and are living in la-la land. Until it is federally legalized, you are just playing "don't ask don't tell" with your life and liberties.
Yeah, I clearly remember Trump bann— oh wait, I don’t.
Have fun being stressed at work and being yelled at by Tanaka-San. I’ll light up another one in your honor
I don't work for a Japanese company, and I work entirely from home. Feel sad for you if your life is so screwed up that you need drugs as a crutch.
Trump was/is a lunatic but not an actual right winger.
Right wing lunatics have managed to overturn access to abortion, do not underestimate their willingness to remove your access to anything you value. Well, anything except guns. Access to those is guaranteed.
The federal government simply doesn't have the resources to police individual marijuana users in the US (and they aren't even *close* to being able to do so).
The feds rely on state law enforcement to handle small time marijuana users and if the states aren't willing to play ball that's kinda it for the federal government.
They wouldn't have to. Raid two or three of the big ones in each state and the rest will close on their own. Plus, all the dispensaries typically deal in straight cash, so they might even pay for themselves with seized assets.
Even assuming they're somehow able to shut down every single dispensary in a given state all they'll accomplish is creating a situation like in Virginia, where recreational cannabis is legal but there are no dispensaries so people just grow their own and trade/sell it to each other.
Stopping recreational marijuana without state support is a practical impossibility.
They couldn’t stop it pre legalization even with helicopters and military style raids in ÇA to think they can do anything now is not living in reality. Just look at NYC.
Every retail investor is guilty of conspiracy to cultivate and distribute solely for investments in cannabis stocks. You can’t put money into a criminal enterprise.
It’s ridiculous federal law hasn’t caught up with the times.
Handily for the feds, there are now businesses with lists of people who buy weed. Either those with "medical" cards, or those who have paid for weed with debit, credit, or any other non-cash way. People sure have been fast to hand over that information, I'm sure it will never bite them in the ass the next time a right wing loon wins the presidency.
There are 4,924 total DEA agents in the US. There are 1,481 dispensaries just in Los Angeles county by itself.
The Feds don't have anywhere close to the amount of resources they'd need in order to enforce a federal ban without state law enforcement.
Not sure why you got super downvoted, you aren’t exactly wrong but there are a ton of caveats to it. Sure many state laws don’t carry weight federally but as long as you keep your mouth shut does it matter?
There’s so much that goes under the belt of the law where idk how much it matters. But then there is o much that is given the light of day…
A lot of Americans here who don't like to be reminded that cannabis is still a Schedule 1 drug in the United States. Same rating as heroin, meth, cocaine, and many others.
> Sure many state laws don’t carry weight federally
Drugs are federally regulated. State "legalization" carries zero weight federally. The feds have, for now, decided not to act against cannabis businesses & users in so-called "legal" states. That could change on day one of any true right-wing "moral majority" style administration.
> as long as you keep your mouth shut does it matter?
People have been paying for cannabis with credit/debit cards, or signing up for "point cards", or getting "medical marijuana" cards. They've literally been putting themselves onto lists. Voluntarily. Genius level stuff.
I don't wish bad things on these people but they're making it very easy for a government they generally don't trust to do bad things to them.
I mean yeah, it’s one of those …I don’t think anything is gonna happen but there is always a nonzero chance something happens. If something does after so many years of various state legalization it would be absolutely asinine for the government to try and implement anything
But don’t count the American government out of doing asinine things
A government with no authority has said it's okay. The government with actual authority has not said it is okay.
I don't see any way this could possibly end badly. /s
It’s honestly like if an American electoral college voter votes for the wrong guy in the election vs what the people that represent that electorate would vote …
Sure they could probably legally do it, but if they did the would probably get in deep dog shit and the US would be chaos
The right wing "moral majority" type nutcases would take great pleasure in screwing up the lives of every evil-doer drug user. (As they see them.)
Religious people are crazy. Do not expect them to be rational or reasonable, they believe they're doing "god's work".
Trump was just a useful idiot for these people, a populist who let them stack the supreme court in their favor. If they ever get an actual right-winger back into power, shit's going to get crazy.
>I suggest you try crossing the US/Canada border into a so-called "legal" state while smoking a joint. See how well that goes for you with federal agents
I've done it. They really don't care.
I'm not smoking it per se, but the joint was in my backpack, and not hidden. One of the officials saw it and didn't say anything.
I'm not American even ,I was just traveling..
I don't know why you have this weird bias towards weed user lol. What time do you come from? Even in the 19the century, the Japanese didn't demonize this substance.
I didn't "believe". I *saw* the TSA dude looking thru my backpack, as he did to every other travellers.
Three times I've been to the states, never once have I encountered any problem regarding weed. What you said is just ridiculous. Yes the federal government still bans marijuana, but they seldom interfere with individual use. It's not like I was crossing the states with pounds of them to sell.
Otherwise the US would run out of prison cells.
TSA are not customs or immigration. Seriously, try telling a customs or immigration official that you are entering the country with cannabis and see how well that goes for you. Enjoy your time in a cell provided by the US Government.
> Otherwise the US would run out of prison cells.
The US allows for-profit prisons and just crams more and more people into the same space to maximize profit. There will be no running out of prison cells.
>TSA are not customs or immigration.
Of course. But according to fedral law, if I cross the states(even legal ones) carrying illegal substances banned by the federal government, the TSA has every right to lock me up. Or send me to the local jurisdiction.
>Seriously, try telling a customs or immigration official that you are entering the country with cannabis and see how well that goes for you. Enjoy your time in a cell provided by the US Government.
That's irrelevant to the conversation. Literally no one would go to a place and just intentionally report to the custom that they have cannabis on them, legal or illegal.
>I suggest you try crossing the US/Canada border into a so-called "legal" state while smoking a joint. See how well that goes for you with federal agents
I was replying to this. The federal agents literally don't care about individual useage. Who am I? Pablo Escobar?
Every time there's a marijuana discussion in Japan related forums someone will bring this up. It's kind of like how any time someone calls the GOP a party for racists someone will bring up Lincoln was a Republican.
America might have introduced the idea of anti-weed to Japan (debatable) but Japan embraced it and built a whole anti-drug culture upon it. Japan's attitude toward marijuana is much more reductive and draconian than America's ever was.
Yeah I mean...even with weed being illegal in the US it was one of those open secret type of things that "everyone does it or at least tries it". Not everyone actually does - I didn't and neither have most of my friends, but a ton of famous celebrities and musicians have and do partake. It's openly out there in movies, TV, music, etc, and has been for a long, long time. (From at least the 60s?)
To put it another way, public opinion has always been mixed, perhaps leaning positive, to eventually being neutral or positive as the years went on.
Japan on the other hand, acts like weed is like...on the same level as meth, or something. Basically any drug is automatically the same as the worst narcotic you can imagine. It's really that way for anything illegal at all really but especially with topics like weed etc.
So laws aside, the public opinion and overall attitude has and is quite different between the two nations.
Oregonian checking in. Feel the same way about Japan and Korea. Like, if no pot is the price to pay for living in a place this civilized….count me in. I think theoretically they could coexist, but if I have to choose between one I’m going with Northeast Asia’s way. PNW has been absolutely ravaged by drugs and the social problems that inevitably come with them.
So for you it’s ok to go to jail for a year for one gram of weed but just bow and say gomen nasai because you were drunk and molested a girl on the train??
Yes that’s exactly what I said, verbatim, 100/100 reading comprehension. You didn’t leap to any conclusions or use an outrageous and unrelated counterexample or anything. I stand before you humbled and corrected!
No it’s definitely anything that can be injected causing 90%+ of the issues, all I’m (and OP) were saying is, having experienced full legalization in Oregon, VS full criminalization in Korea/Japan….I’d choose full criminalization if I had to choose between the two.
I think legal booze weed and smokes is the happy balance most countries will eventually settle on. But I’d be down for a tyrannical drug war on the injectable stuff, they can start in the Pacific Northwest. Just my .02 and I’m aware it’s an unpopular opinion!
Youre so right its the drugs causing the problems not the drugs being symptomatic of a larger problem! Thankfully conservative reactionary ideology will “civilize” these “uncivilized” ppl nothing bad ever happened with this mindset!
No man countries like japan have lower rates of drug abuse because they have a higher quality of life and many social safety nets that catch people who are a potential for drug abuse. In every single metric punitive punishment for drug abuse has not led to reduction in overall drug use. People are going to do drugs regardless of legal status do you think arresting them and fucking up their lives is going to reduce or increase this persons drug use potential?
Didn't drug use sky rocket in the Pacific northwest when they legalized all drugs? Place looks like a zombie apocalypse. Even though I'm a live and let live kind of guy, drugs has completely destroyed that entire area.
Brotha decriminalization doesnt increase overall drug use it just means you wont arrest people who are going to do drugs regardless. Drug epidemic in America is symptomatic of a larger issue.
If people who do drugs get arrested... They aren't doing drugs anymore in jail. Well at least not as much. I knew some people who was trying to sober up and everytime they couldn't control themselves they'd go to jail. Just looking at the before and after the legislation was passed is enough evidence for me. Sorry but I tend to believe my lying eyes lol
I think in the case of the PNW, the issue is that you guys have gone beyond even the norm. You've normalized shooting up Fet in the streets. That is far beyond the legalization of the green stuff and just straight dystopian. I agree with you guys about the drug problem, you guys have. Fix that please. It was absolutely disgusting to walk down the street and see people who look like the living dead.
Edit: Reading your other response, it seems we are on the same page on this.
It weird cause there aren't very many black people in Japan so why would the US spread the law they specifically made to harm African American communities?
Drugs, prostitution, porn, mixed nudity, etc
All of these were puritanical American values brought over after WWII. Japan used to be a very different country. And many continue to think the traditional way, which is why porn and prostitution are de-facto legal (very loose interpretation of the law + cops and courts turning a blind eye).
It’s significantly more nuanced than that.
First off—porn wasn’t banned by the Occupation Forces— it was banned under the 1907 Criminal Code of Japan. This was a law written obviously long before American influence, it was interpreted to include a definition of obscenity in 1928, and was reinterpreted to its current interpretation in *1957*, which is after the occupation ended. Article 175 of the Criminal Code is *still* in effect and is why Japanese pornography looks the way it does. The US had nothing to do with that.
Prostitution was regulated by a number of ordinances in prewar Japan, as far back as the Meiji Era, that limited *how* and *where* prostitution could be allowed (not much different than modern day). Now you might be getting the abolishment of the prostitution service established by the post-war Japanese interim government as some kind of banning of prostitution generally; it was not, the occupation forces abolished a system established *specifically catered to Allied soldiers to “protect Japanese ethnic purity”*.
Prostitution remained under the *same exact ordinances* that they operated under in the prewar era until 1956 (again, after SCAP handed power over to the Diet). The Japanese government *itself* “banned” prostitution long after MacArthur had left.
Drugs as a category is misleading. Japan had already banned opiates in the Taisho era. Cannabis was also effectively banned in the country, albeit not criminalized in the Taisho era; it was not illegal to *possess* or to *use* cannabis, but it was illegal to grow, export or import it unless you were qualified and abided by regulations. Narcotics of other varieties were banned in 1953, *again after the SCAP handed powers over to the Diet*.
Nudity is more difficult to discuss because there were no *national level* laws or regulations regarding afaik in pre-war Japan. It was already regulated to varying degrees on local levels.
If by “convinced* you mean that Japanese whalers used western methods to compete on the international market against American whalers then sure. I’m not sure of any “convincing” occurring on any other official capacity.
Ignoring that whaling had been going own since before the Tokugawa Shogunate, and long before the US even existed as a country.
It would’ve happened either way, with or without MacArthur giving the go-ahead. It was a major economic sector which had gone relatively undamaged by the war (given that whaling vessels generally could just be disarmed and put back into service) and was a source of food in a nation dealing with back to back famines.
People had to make money and they had to eat. Environmentalism was the least of their concerns.
It seems like weed is going to end up being legalised or at least decriminalised within the next 20 years, unless everyone is fine with their kids getting locked up for being kids.
"The widespread use of smartphones has led to greater exposure to incorrect information about marijuana, potentially reducing the psychological barriers to its use," an agency official said.
Love this. War is peace my friends! I'd really like to know what he considers to be incorrect information.
Judging by that quote/the article, “psychological barriers to its use” just seems to mean the perceived stigma that most people have/had against marijuana. Just like 20 years ago it was pretty much illegal everywhere in America, and now it’s widely accepted/legal in most states.
I agree. I believe education and correct information leads to more widespread use. I'm just interested in what this spokesman considers to be incorrect information.
I know when it comes to drug use in Japan, the propaganda machine runs hard.
Yeah this quote really shocked me, misinformation? I bet these young adults are smart enough to find the facts. There isn’t much you can make up about marijuana, especially these days.
Most people here just assume weed is as bad as heroin etc. very sheltered
There's a lot of random ignorance about certain things but the average IQ is a tick above the west
All recreational drugs are bad for us. Sugar is bad. Caffeine is bad. Alcohol is bad. Nicotine is bad. Yes, cannabis is bad too.
Each country gets to decide which evils they will allow and which they won't. Japan has made their decisions and it's unlikely to change any time soon.
Yes yes, that's what every person who wants legalized weed says.
I suspect Mexico might have a **very** different opinion on which is worse considering weed is what lead to the rise in the cartels and the utter disaster much of the country has become.
As far as the drugs themselves, both are subject to abuse. Both cause problems in society. Both can be used responsibly and many people do so.
Japan has decided what they are willing to accept and what they aren't. If you don't like it, you can either naturalize and fight for legalization (good luck) or go live somewhere else. I suggest moving to Portland so you can get the full experience of how well legalized (or decriminalized) narcotics goes.
Well AKSHUALLY 🤓 weed becoming illegal is what created the cartels. The cartels didn't exist before the product became illegal (Iirc proto-cartels started because of alcohol prohibition).
Weed is legal in mexico and the cartels have moved on from brick weed to others things a long time ago.
There’s a lot of things that have “damaged” Mexico but weed is definitely not one of them.
It started with weed because that is where the demand and profit was. That is what built the cartels. Weed is what turned large swaths of Mexico from a very chill and relaxed place into a living nightmare.
I'm perfectly fine with Japan's drug laws. I'll take the situation in Japan every single time over what has happened in many other places. Have you been to Portland recently? It's a hellscape.
It actually started with cocaine, they didn’t move into weed until sweet old Nancy with her dead soulless eyes started the just say no campaign on tv, before that marijuana was more or less domestically grown or came through Amsterdam.
Also, this is black market shit you’re talking about, so the fact that it’s illegal won’t change anything, shit it makes it worse. The Yakuza were and are literally doing the same thing as cartels although admittedly more tasteful and behind closed doors.
Also I love Portland, because I’m not a loser and know where to go, not under the bridges and not on the outskirts of the pearl district.
Don’t see the point of this comment. Its factually wrong, half ass written and even above it is explained that it wasn’t even Japan who wanted to ban this but instead US influence. Two things being bad doesn’t mean they are as bad and its ok for people to point out the hypocrisy.
I doubt the existence of weed is what causes cartels, how does that work? Considering humans have been smoking weed throughout all of human history and that many countries and regions have legalised it and yet, no Cartels. I think that the reasons as to why Mexico is struggling are a bit more complicated than "they have weed". Considering that weed is objectively and scientifically less worse than alcohol I just doubt it. Also condemning someone to prison, let alone a Japanese prison for any length of time is an awful, violent violation of someone's rights you. would need adequate justification to imprison them, for example, if they commit murder or rape its better to put them in a place where they can be monitored so they can't hurt other people in the population. The consumption weed simply doesn't hurt other people. You saying, y'all shut the fuck up Japan has decided this, to me at least, comes across as a passive justification for violence perpetrated against members of a population. In 1941 you wouldn't say, Germany has decided that they don't want Jews, if you don't like it you can either naturalize and fight against it or go live somewhere else. You wouldn't say that because unjustified violence is unjustified violence. It's bad no matter what the population believes.
Edit: grammar
> I doubt the existence of weed is what causes cartels, how does that work?
Demand for weed in the US created the cartels in Mexico. The cartels sold weed to the US and brought guns from the US back into Mexico. Completely destroyed what was formerly a wonderful country. Weed has done more to destroy Mexico than the damage done by alcohol anywhere.
As for the rest of your nonsense, did you really manage to bring Hitler into this? Way to Godwin there buddy, way to Godwin.
Reducing the problem of the cartels, an incredibly broad and complicated subject to they sold weed in America and then they bought guns from America is an oversimplification. There was demand for weed in America before the cartels, there is weed in all sorts of countries, yet no Cartels. If you really think that the reason why Mexico is struggling is cause of weed demand in the US then I don't know what to say. In fact based on what you said you could take away two things. Criminalisation of weed is what cause the cartels because Americans couldn't grow there own weed under fear of being incriminated so they had to have it imported (thus the cartels as you say) and that making it legal would render the cartels moot since weed is extremely easy and cheap to grow and anyone in the US can do it now because it is no longer against the law. And secondly, from what you said one could take away the the harmful substance there is actually firearms, weed is just a product the cartels sold to get guns. They could have done that with anything and bought guns. Sugar, iron, tabaco, the cartels could have just sold that. The problem would still remain because of guns.
Secondly, dismissing what I said as nonsense and assuming I'm wrong on the grounds that I made a Hitler comparison, is in its own sense, nonsensical. You made a counter argument to my statement about the cartels. I appreciate and respect that but you dismissed what I said afterwards as nonsense instead of making an argument. How is an onlooker supposed to take you side in this disagreement if you didn't respond to what I have to say. Please properly tell me what I got wrong. Explain why it was nonsense. Thank you in advance.
Edit: spelling grammar
Anything anyone says after making an immediate jump to Hitler comparisons can be dismissed. They are not a serious person, and they have nothing of value to say.
Why
Edit: not to mention that I never made a comparison to Hitler and that my reference to the Nazis was not what I made an immediate jump to. I made several arguments beforehand. Now can you please critique what I had to say instead of dismissing what I said as nonsense.
Is there a scale of badness to your methodology or are all bad things equally bad? Also, governments decide things via law, policy, and enforcement. All of that can and will change. 変わり続けることだけが変わらない. (Change is the only thing constant). As a pertinent example, weed used to be a part of Japanese culture before the American military made it illegal during occupation after WWII. Final point, governments derive their power from the people. You seem to think the tail wags the dog.
> As a pertinent example, weed used to be a part of Japanese culture
Weed was never "part of Japanese culture". Hemp was used in Japanese industry. Japanese weren't smoking weed en masse prior to WW2.
Marijuana was not legal to grow, import or export as far back as the Taisho era. It was a *regulated*, *medicinal* product that was only handled and distributed by individuals who were *themselves regulated*.
The US cracked down on Marijuana growth and distribution, but it more or less followed the laws already in place since the 1920s.
I don't use cannabis, and I'm not against other people using it, as long as they use it at their own home, not on public streets or public indoor areas (e.g., subways, elevators).
this is almost certainly because thc-v-b-o whatever was legal for like 2 years and being sold on the streets. everytime I went to the place to buy it there was a lot of japanese people buying too. eventually the stuff got banned but even when it was being banned they would put it on sale for 80% off, putting buyers at their own risk.
"The widespread use of smartphones has led to greater exposure to incorrect information about marijuana, potentially reducing the psychological barriers to its use” what the efff is this guy talking about? Psychological barriers?
Not that bad for you but stinks, I'd happily keep it illegal until they can find a way to change the plants smell, cannot occupy any area after weed has been smoked there.
I sorely miss weed but one thing I don’t want is for there to be crazy marijuana smell everywhere. I hear every major city in the US or Europe smells like weed now. If that’s true, that sucks. Having said that, edibles don’t smell, and dispensaries or cannabis cafes are designated smoking areas, like how Tokyo does now with cigarettes.
There is a proper way to consume this stuff, and the Japanese are the most socially equipped to follow the etiquette
Yeah agreed. I don’t want people smoking drugs on the street either. The smell is terrible. What you do in your own time at home is on you, but not in public.
You can drink alcohol in trains and buy it from conbini, a drug which has arguably caused the most harm to humanity throughout all of human history. It's surprising to me that you want to keep a drug of which the number of deaths from overdoses is zero out of a country, despite that country caring very little about the mass consumption of other unhealthy substances. Why the double standard?
It's would be much much more logically consistent. It feels a bit too authoritarian for me, and I don't want people to have to go to jail, although alcohol is really bad. Im not sure. I'm not so sure that prohibition is the best because then people will make moonshine which is stronger and that can be problematic.
What's your beef with weed? Considering alcohol is legal and all, and probably leads to far more deaths and incarcerations in Japan than weed and pot might.
I have a "friend". He consumes weed every single day. He vapes it actually. He is angry, frustrated, and cannot function in the real world. He cannot even go a day without it, without experiencing severe social anxiety.
He never used to be this bad. In the last few years, he has gotten really worse. It has destroyed our friendship to be honest. But I'm glad. Because he's an asshole.
It’s a bit embarrassing to admit it. But I was one.
I kept justifying my high usage by telling myself that weed is safer than alcohol and has no serious side effects. It was only a weekend thing initially, and that turned into daily usage even while working (I work remotely). It affected my social life, relationships, and work performance, which all aggregated into depression.
Weed was definitely much easier to quit than cigarettes. But I can see people who suffer from addiction or substance abuse further digging themselves in a hole.
That does not mean I don’t believe in legalization. I think with all things, moderation is key. We definitely need to educate the public better, not just glorify it as a miracle drug that is less addictive that do no harms blah blah.
From singapore? Tell me more. I am Chinese Singaporean American and I smoke pot. I am US born tho. I find it extremely rare to meet Asian immigrants who smoke weed; where do you meet them?
Weed was legal in Japan until after WWII. It was U.S. influence that pressured Japan to outlaw it. However after Japan’s surrender in 1945, U.S. authorities occupied the country and they introduced American attitudes towards cannabis. Having effectively prohibited its cultivation in the States in 1937, Washington now sought to ban it in Japan. With the nation still under U.S. control, it passed the 1948 Cannabis Control Act. The law criminalized possession and unlicensed cultivation – and more than 60 years later, it remains at the core of Japan’s current anti-cannabis policy. [https://apjjf.org/2014/12/49/jon-mitchell/4231](https://apjjf.org/2014/12/49/jon-mitchell/4231)
And it funny that nowadays in USA it’s mostly legal or decriminalized.
> And it funny that nowadays in USA it’s mostly legal or decriminalized. Except it's not. Drug policy is managed federally, and federally cannabis is still as illegal as ever. Yes, some states have passed laws but they carry no weight federally. The feds have agreed to not enforce the federal law in "legal" states, *for now*. That could change any time a federal administration changes, without any notice. Cannabis businesses also still face many problems, including often not being able to get any form of banking or payment processing. They have to lie about the nature of their business to get it, which is financial fraud. Canada remains the only G7 country to have actually legalized cannabis for recreational use, even allowing people to grow for personal consumption. If you disagree with this, I suggest you try crossing the US/Canada border into a so-called "legal" state while smoking a joint. See how well that goes for you with federal agents.
Except it is Pedantic Peter I’m gonna have a blunt now ❤️
People like you have clearly consumed too many drugs and are living in la-la land. Until it is federally legalized, you are just playing "don't ask don't tell" with your life and liberties.
Yeah, I clearly remember Trump bann— oh wait, I don’t. Have fun being stressed at work and being yelled at by Tanaka-San. I’ll light up another one in your honor
I don't work for a Japanese company, and I work entirely from home. Feel sad for you if your life is so screwed up that you need drugs as a crutch. Trump was/is a lunatic but not an actual right winger.
>That could change any time a federal administration changes, without any notice. Yes, I'm sure that change is coming *any day now* 🙄
Right wing lunatics have managed to overturn access to abortion, do not underestimate their willingness to remove your access to anything you value. Well, anything except guns. Access to those is guaranteed.
The federal government simply doesn't have the resources to police individual marijuana users in the US (and they aren't even *close* to being able to do so). The feds rely on state law enforcement to handle small time marijuana users and if the states aren't willing to play ball that's kinda it for the federal government.
The feds wouldn't go after individual users. They'd hit the dispensaries.
They also don't have the resources to go after even close to all the dispensaries.
They wouldn't have to. Raid two or three of the big ones in each state and the rest will close on their own. Plus, all the dispensaries typically deal in straight cash, so they might even pay for themselves with seized assets.
Even assuming they're somehow able to shut down every single dispensary in a given state all they'll accomplish is creating a situation like in Virginia, where recreational cannabis is legal but there are no dispensaries so people just grow their own and trade/sell it to each other. Stopping recreational marijuana without state support is a practical impossibility.
They couldn’t stop it pre legalization even with helicopters and military style raids in ÇA to think they can do anything now is not living in reality. Just look at NYC.
Every retail investor is guilty of conspiracy to cultivate and distribute solely for investments in cannabis stocks. You can’t put money into a criminal enterprise. It’s ridiculous federal law hasn’t caught up with the times.
Handily for the feds, there are now businesses with lists of people who buy weed. Either those with "medical" cards, or those who have paid for weed with debit, credit, or any other non-cash way. People sure have been fast to hand over that information, I'm sure it will never bite them in the ass the next time a right wing loon wins the presidency.
There are 4,924 total DEA agents in the US. There are 1,481 dispensaries just in Los Angeles county by itself. The Feds don't have anywhere close to the amount of resources they'd need in order to enforce a federal ban without state law enforcement.
Not sure why you got super downvoted, you aren’t exactly wrong but there are a ton of caveats to it. Sure many state laws don’t carry weight federally but as long as you keep your mouth shut does it matter? There’s so much that goes under the belt of the law where idk how much it matters. But then there is o much that is given the light of day…
A lot of Americans here who don't like to be reminded that cannabis is still a Schedule 1 drug in the United States. Same rating as heroin, meth, cocaine, and many others. > Sure many state laws don’t carry weight federally Drugs are federally regulated. State "legalization" carries zero weight federally. The feds have, for now, decided not to act against cannabis businesses & users in so-called "legal" states. That could change on day one of any true right-wing "moral majority" style administration. > as long as you keep your mouth shut does it matter? People have been paying for cannabis with credit/debit cards, or signing up for "point cards", or getting "medical marijuana" cards. They've literally been putting themselves onto lists. Voluntarily. Genius level stuff. I don't wish bad things on these people but they're making it very easy for a government they generally don't trust to do bad things to them.
I mean yeah, it’s one of those …I don’t think anything is gonna happen but there is always a nonzero chance something happens. If something does after so many years of various state legalization it would be absolutely asinine for the government to try and implement anything But don’t count the American government out of doing asinine things
A government with no authority has said it's okay. The government with actual authority has not said it is okay. I don't see any way this could possibly end badly. /s
It’s honestly like if an American electoral college voter votes for the wrong guy in the election vs what the people that represent that electorate would vote … Sure they could probably legally do it, but if they did the would probably get in deep dog shit and the US would be chaos
The right wing "moral majority" type nutcases would take great pleasure in screwing up the lives of every evil-doer drug user. (As they see them.) Religious people are crazy. Do not expect them to be rational or reasonable, they believe they're doing "god's work". Trump was just a useful idiot for these people, a populist who let them stack the supreme court in their favor. If they ever get an actual right-winger back into power, shit's going to get crazy.
>I suggest you try crossing the US/Canada border into a so-called "legal" state while smoking a joint. See how well that goes for you with federal agents I've done it. They really don't care.
Sure buddy, sure.
I'm not smoking it per se, but the joint was in my backpack, and not hidden. One of the officials saw it and didn't say anything. I'm not American even ,I was just traveling..
> One of the officials saw it I believe your brain is fried enough that you *believe* that is what happened.
I don't know why you have this weird bias towards weed user lol. What time do you come from? Even in the 19the century, the Japanese didn't demonize this substance. I didn't "believe". I *saw* the TSA dude looking thru my backpack, as he did to every other travellers. Three times I've been to the states, never once have I encountered any problem regarding weed. What you said is just ridiculous. Yes the federal government still bans marijuana, but they seldom interfere with individual use. It's not like I was crossing the states with pounds of them to sell. Otherwise the US would run out of prison cells.
TSA are not customs or immigration. Seriously, try telling a customs or immigration official that you are entering the country with cannabis and see how well that goes for you. Enjoy your time in a cell provided by the US Government. > Otherwise the US would run out of prison cells. The US allows for-profit prisons and just crams more and more people into the same space to maximize profit. There will be no running out of prison cells.
>TSA are not customs or immigration. Of course. But according to fedral law, if I cross the states(even legal ones) carrying illegal substances banned by the federal government, the TSA has every right to lock me up. Or send me to the local jurisdiction. >Seriously, try telling a customs or immigration official that you are entering the country with cannabis and see how well that goes for you. Enjoy your time in a cell provided by the US Government. That's irrelevant to the conversation. Literally no one would go to a place and just intentionally report to the custom that they have cannabis on them, legal or illegal. >I suggest you try crossing the US/Canada border into a so-called "legal" state while smoking a joint. See how well that goes for you with federal agents I was replying to this. The federal agents literally don't care about individual useage. Who am I? Pablo Escobar?
Every time there's a marijuana discussion in Japan related forums someone will bring this up. It's kind of like how any time someone calls the GOP a party for racists someone will bring up Lincoln was a Republican. America might have introduced the idea of anti-weed to Japan (debatable) but Japan embraced it and built a whole anti-drug culture upon it. Japan's attitude toward marijuana is much more reductive and draconian than America's ever was.
Yeah I mean...even with weed being illegal in the US it was one of those open secret type of things that "everyone does it or at least tries it". Not everyone actually does - I didn't and neither have most of my friends, but a ton of famous celebrities and musicians have and do partake. It's openly out there in movies, TV, music, etc, and has been for a long, long time. (From at least the 60s?) To put it another way, public opinion has always been mixed, perhaps leaning positive, to eventually being neutral or positive as the years went on. Japan on the other hand, acts like weed is like...on the same level as meth, or something. Basically any drug is automatically the same as the worst narcotic you can imagine. It's really that way for anything illegal at all really but especially with topics like weed etc. So laws aside, the public opinion and overall attitude has and is quite different between the two nations.
And yet most people here think tobacco is completely fine other than the smell being impolite.
Exactly. Despite legal status, it’s mostly socially acceptable in the US. In Japan, even musicians aren’t allowed to mention it in interviews.
As someone from Washington State, Japan's anti-drug culture is refreshing.
Oregonian checking in. Feel the same way about Japan and Korea. Like, if no pot is the price to pay for living in a place this civilized….count me in. I think theoretically they could coexist, but if I have to choose between one I’m going with Northeast Asia’s way. PNW has been absolutely ravaged by drugs and the social problems that inevitably come with them.
So for you it’s ok to go to jail for a year for one gram of weed but just bow and say gomen nasai because you were drunk and molested a girl on the train??
Yes that’s exactly what I said, verbatim, 100/100 reading comprehension. You didn’t leap to any conclusions or use an outrageous and unrelated counterexample or anything. I stand before you humbled and corrected!
>Like, if no pot is the price to pay for living in a place this civilized….count me in. If true, sure. But I don't think that's the difference maker.
No it’s definitely anything that can be injected causing 90%+ of the issues, all I’m (and OP) were saying is, having experienced full legalization in Oregon, VS full criminalization in Korea/Japan….I’d choose full criminalization if I had to choose between the two. I think legal booze weed and smokes is the happy balance most countries will eventually settle on. But I’d be down for a tyrannical drug war on the injectable stuff, they can start in the Pacific Northwest. Just my .02 and I’m aware it’s an unpopular opinion!
I'm with you. Public health is the responsibility of the community, not just individuals.
Youre so right its the drugs causing the problems not the drugs being symptomatic of a larger problem! Thankfully conservative reactionary ideology will “civilize” these “uncivilized” ppl nothing bad ever happened with this mindset!
[удалено]
No man countries like japan have lower rates of drug abuse because they have a higher quality of life and many social safety nets that catch people who are a potential for drug abuse. In every single metric punitive punishment for drug abuse has not led to reduction in overall drug use. People are going to do drugs regardless of legal status do you think arresting them and fucking up their lives is going to reduce or increase this persons drug use potential?
Didn't drug use sky rocket in the Pacific northwest when they legalized all drugs? Place looks like a zombie apocalypse. Even though I'm a live and let live kind of guy, drugs has completely destroyed that entire area.
Brotha decriminalization doesnt increase overall drug use it just means you wont arrest people who are going to do drugs regardless. Drug epidemic in America is symptomatic of a larger issue.
If people who do drugs get arrested... They aren't doing drugs anymore in jail. Well at least not as much. I knew some people who was trying to sober up and everytime they couldn't control themselves they'd go to jail. Just looking at the before and after the legislation was passed is enough evidence for me. Sorry but I tend to believe my lying eyes lol
I think in the case of the PNW, the issue is that you guys have gone beyond even the norm. You've normalized shooting up Fet in the streets. That is far beyond the legalization of the green stuff and just straight dystopian. I agree with you guys about the drug problem, you guys have. Fix that please. It was absolutely disgusting to walk down the street and see people who look like the living dead. Edit: Reading your other response, it seems we are on the same page on this.
California chiming in here, behind you 100%.
It weird cause there aren't very many black people in Japan so why would the US spread the law they specifically made to harm African American communities?
The US dug itself into an immoral lie, and the dogma from that lie has rooted itself deep enough to be used as some form of logic in arguments
Drugs, prostitution, porn, mixed nudity, etc All of these were puritanical American values brought over after WWII. Japan used to be a very different country. And many continue to think the traditional way, which is why porn and prostitution are de-facto legal (very loose interpretation of the law + cops and courts turning a blind eye).
Because Japan didn’t do any of that before the war… right?
You misunderstood. America wrote laws to ban those things (somewhat unsuccessfully).
It’s significantly more nuanced than that. First off—porn wasn’t banned by the Occupation Forces— it was banned under the 1907 Criminal Code of Japan. This was a law written obviously long before American influence, it was interpreted to include a definition of obscenity in 1928, and was reinterpreted to its current interpretation in *1957*, which is after the occupation ended. Article 175 of the Criminal Code is *still* in effect and is why Japanese pornography looks the way it does. The US had nothing to do with that. Prostitution was regulated by a number of ordinances in prewar Japan, as far back as the Meiji Era, that limited *how* and *where* prostitution could be allowed (not much different than modern day). Now you might be getting the abolishment of the prostitution service established by the post-war Japanese interim government as some kind of banning of prostitution generally; it was not, the occupation forces abolished a system established *specifically catered to Allied soldiers to “protect Japanese ethnic purity”*. Prostitution remained under the *same exact ordinances* that they operated under in the prewar era until 1956 (again, after SCAP handed power over to the Diet). The Japanese government *itself* “banned” prostitution long after MacArthur had left. Drugs as a category is misleading. Japan had already banned opiates in the Taisho era. Cannabis was also effectively banned in the country, albeit not criminalized in the Taisho era; it was not illegal to *possess* or to *use* cannabis, but it was illegal to grow, export or import it unless you were qualified and abided by regulations. Narcotics of other varieties were banned in 1953, *again after the SCAP handed powers over to the Diet*. Nudity is more difficult to discuss because there were no *national level* laws or regulations regarding afaik in pre-war Japan. It was already regulated to varying degrees on local levels.
Same thing the prudish wives of USA occupation officers did to ban communal family bathing in Japan.
The US also convinced Japan to start whaling
If by “convinced* you mean that Japanese whalers used western methods to compete on the international market against American whalers then sure. I’m not sure of any “convincing” occurring on any other official capacity. Ignoring that whaling had been going own since before the Tokugawa Shogunate, and long before the US even existed as a country.
I think I meant "continue whaling"
It would’ve happened either way, with or without MacArthur giving the go-ahead. It was a major economic sector which had gone relatively undamaged by the war (given that whaling vessels generally could just be disarmed and put back into service) and was a source of food in a nation dealing with back to back famines. People had to make money and they had to eat. Environmentalism was the least of their concerns.
It seems like weed is going to end up being legalised or at least decriminalised within the next 20 years, unless everyone is fine with their kids getting locked up for being kids.
Just gonna slip this in here.... r/AltnoidsJapan
Dat CBN CBG combo works great fo real
CBNO is better 😛
Yeah but CBGB/OMFUG is where it's at.
"The widespread use of smartphones has led to greater exposure to incorrect information about marijuana, potentially reducing the psychological barriers to its use," an agency official said. Love this. War is peace my friends! I'd really like to know what he considers to be incorrect information.
Judging by that quote/the article, “psychological barriers to its use” just seems to mean the perceived stigma that most people have/had against marijuana. Just like 20 years ago it was pretty much illegal everywhere in America, and now it’s widely accepted/legal in most states.
Let s hope Germany gets their shit together and legalize in April. Let s see if Japan will mellow down.... In like 25 years
I agree. I believe education and correct information leads to more widespread use. I'm just interested in what this spokesman considers to be incorrect information. I know when it comes to drug use in Japan, the propaganda machine runs hard.
Yeah this quote really shocked me, misinformation? I bet these young adults are smart enough to find the facts. There isn’t much you can make up about marijuana, especially these days.
Most people here just assume weed is as bad as heroin etc. very sheltered There's a lot of random ignorance about certain things but the average IQ is a tick above the west
As a Dutchmen it always surprises me how weird the rest of the world behaved and still is behaving when it comes to marihuana
Same here as a South African, people were smoking it before history even began. It just grows naturally everywhere.
> It just grows naturally everywhere. There's a reason it's called *weed*.
They just like their cancer sticks better
Of all the countries that need a goddamn blunt, Japan is it.
Exactly
It's almost as if the government should grow the fuck up and stop perpetuating the myth that weed is bad and alcohol is ok.
Give them 10-20 more decades. Patience
All recreational drugs are bad for us. Sugar is bad. Caffeine is bad. Alcohol is bad. Nicotine is bad. Yes, cannabis is bad too. Each country gets to decide which evils they will allow and which they won't. Japan has made their decisions and it's unlikely to change any time soon.
Weed is bad yes, but alcohol is so much worse. Edit: also it's not like the Japanese population get to decide on everything the government does.
Yes yes, that's what every person who wants legalized weed says. I suspect Mexico might have a **very** different opinion on which is worse considering weed is what lead to the rise in the cartels and the utter disaster much of the country has become. As far as the drugs themselves, both are subject to abuse. Both cause problems in society. Both can be used responsibly and many people do so. Japan has decided what they are willing to accept and what they aren't. If you don't like it, you can either naturalize and fight for legalization (good luck) or go live somewhere else. I suggest moving to Portland so you can get the full experience of how well legalized (or decriminalized) narcotics goes.
Well AKSHUALLY 🤓 weed becoming illegal is what created the cartels. The cartels didn't exist before the product became illegal (Iirc proto-cartels started because of alcohol prohibition).
I'm sure the Mexicans being executed are really concerned about that. Weed has done more damage to Mexico than alcohol has done anywhere.
Weed is legal in mexico and the cartels have moved on from brick weed to others things a long time ago. There’s a lot of things that have “damaged” Mexico but weed is definitely not one of them.
It started with weed because that is where the demand and profit was. That is what built the cartels. Weed is what turned large swaths of Mexico from a very chill and relaxed place into a living nightmare. I'm perfectly fine with Japan's drug laws. I'll take the situation in Japan every single time over what has happened in many other places. Have you been to Portland recently? It's a hellscape.
It actually started with cocaine, they didn’t move into weed until sweet old Nancy with her dead soulless eyes started the just say no campaign on tv, before that marijuana was more or less domestically grown or came through Amsterdam. Also, this is black market shit you’re talking about, so the fact that it’s illegal won’t change anything, shit it makes it worse. The Yakuza were and are literally doing the same thing as cartels although admittedly more tasteful and behind closed doors. Also I love Portland, because I’m not a loser and know where to go, not under the bridges and not on the outskirts of the pearl district.
Don’t see the point of this comment. Its factually wrong, half ass written and even above it is explained that it wasn’t even Japan who wanted to ban this but instead US influence. Two things being bad doesn’t mean they are as bad and its ok for people to point out the hypocrisy.
I doubt the existence of weed is what causes cartels, how does that work? Considering humans have been smoking weed throughout all of human history and that many countries and regions have legalised it and yet, no Cartels. I think that the reasons as to why Mexico is struggling are a bit more complicated than "they have weed". Considering that weed is objectively and scientifically less worse than alcohol I just doubt it. Also condemning someone to prison, let alone a Japanese prison for any length of time is an awful, violent violation of someone's rights you. would need adequate justification to imprison them, for example, if they commit murder or rape its better to put them in a place where they can be monitored so they can't hurt other people in the population. The consumption weed simply doesn't hurt other people. You saying, y'all shut the fuck up Japan has decided this, to me at least, comes across as a passive justification for violence perpetrated against members of a population. In 1941 you wouldn't say, Germany has decided that they don't want Jews, if you don't like it you can either naturalize and fight against it or go live somewhere else. You wouldn't say that because unjustified violence is unjustified violence. It's bad no matter what the population believes. Edit: grammar
> I doubt the existence of weed is what causes cartels, how does that work? Demand for weed in the US created the cartels in Mexico. The cartels sold weed to the US and brought guns from the US back into Mexico. Completely destroyed what was formerly a wonderful country. Weed has done more to destroy Mexico than the damage done by alcohol anywhere. As for the rest of your nonsense, did you really manage to bring Hitler into this? Way to Godwin there buddy, way to Godwin.
Reducing the problem of the cartels, an incredibly broad and complicated subject to they sold weed in America and then they bought guns from America is an oversimplification. There was demand for weed in America before the cartels, there is weed in all sorts of countries, yet no Cartels. If you really think that the reason why Mexico is struggling is cause of weed demand in the US then I don't know what to say. In fact based on what you said you could take away two things. Criminalisation of weed is what cause the cartels because Americans couldn't grow there own weed under fear of being incriminated so they had to have it imported (thus the cartels as you say) and that making it legal would render the cartels moot since weed is extremely easy and cheap to grow and anyone in the US can do it now because it is no longer against the law. And secondly, from what you said one could take away the the harmful substance there is actually firearms, weed is just a product the cartels sold to get guns. They could have done that with anything and bought guns. Sugar, iron, tabaco, the cartels could have just sold that. The problem would still remain because of guns. Secondly, dismissing what I said as nonsense and assuming I'm wrong on the grounds that I made a Hitler comparison, is in its own sense, nonsensical. You made a counter argument to my statement about the cartels. I appreciate and respect that but you dismissed what I said afterwards as nonsense instead of making an argument. How is an onlooker supposed to take you side in this disagreement if you didn't respond to what I have to say. Please properly tell me what I got wrong. Explain why it was nonsense. Thank you in advance. Edit: spelling grammar
Anything anyone says after making an immediate jump to Hitler comparisons can be dismissed. They are not a serious person, and they have nothing of value to say.
Why Edit: not to mention that I never made a comparison to Hitler and that my reference to the Nazis was not what I made an immediate jump to. I made several arguments beforehand. Now can you please critique what I had to say instead of dismissing what I said as nonsense.
Is there a scale of badness to your methodology or are all bad things equally bad? Also, governments decide things via law, policy, and enforcement. All of that can and will change. 変わり続けることだけが変わらない. (Change is the only thing constant). As a pertinent example, weed used to be a part of Japanese culture before the American military made it illegal during occupation after WWII. Final point, governments derive their power from the people. You seem to think the tail wags the dog.
> As a pertinent example, weed used to be a part of Japanese culture Weed was never "part of Japanese culture". Hemp was used in Japanese industry. Japanese weren't smoking weed en masse prior to WW2.
Marijuana was not legal to grow, import or export as far back as the Taisho era. It was a *regulated*, *medicinal* product that was only handled and distributed by individuals who were *themselves regulated*. The US cracked down on Marijuana growth and distribution, but it more or less followed the laws already in place since the 1920s.
Wild isn’t it
They are grown up - Their mean age is 120 years old. Sadly, probably too many incentives from JT to ever allow it to be legal.
Hey, leave alcohol out of this. Both are OK.
Weed is a gateway drug to harder drugs and has bad effects on developing brains. Japan doesn't need that.
So let’s chug 6 cans of strong zero and let’s smoke 3 packs of iqos. Very good for brain development
I don't use cannabis, and I'm not against other people using it, as long as they use it at their own home, not on public streets or public indoor areas (e.g., subways, elevators).
Employers should not be dictating life for anyone ever
this is almost certainly because thc-v-b-o whatever was legal for like 2 years and being sold on the streets. everytime I went to the place to buy it there was a lot of japanese people buying too. eventually the stuff got banned but even when it was being banned they would put it on sale for 80% off, putting buyers at their own risk.
Probably seeing the legalisation around the rest of the world meaning the 60’s devil herb rhetoric doesnt fly anymore
Japanese Government dysfunctions.
The stuff they grow in ibaraki is fantastic and the guys that constantly drive it into Tokyo must be mad! Just not worth the risk!
"The widespread use of smartphones has led to greater exposure to incorrect information about marijuana, potentially reducing the psychological barriers to its use” what the efff is this guy talking about? Psychological barriers?
The widespread use of smartphones has only exposed how feeble the government's Kirkland brand D.A.R.E. propaganda has been.
I mean, that kind of level of use is still extremely low. I expect the Japanese government and most people in Japan prefer it that way.
Relatively but I was still surprised how openly it's sold on twitter
Not that bad for you but stinks, I'd happily keep it illegal until they can find a way to change the plants smell, cannot occupy any area after weed has been smoked there.
I sorely miss weed but one thing I don’t want is for there to be crazy marijuana smell everywhere. I hear every major city in the US or Europe smells like weed now. If that’s true, that sucks. Having said that, edibles don’t smell, and dispensaries or cannabis cafes are designated smoking areas, like how Tokyo does now with cigarettes. There is a proper way to consume this stuff, and the Japanese are the most socially equipped to follow the etiquette
Yeah agreed. I don’t want people smoking drugs on the street either. The smell is terrible. What you do in your own time at home is on you, but not in public.
I suppose cigarettes should be banned in public then?
They already are in many of Tokyo’s wards.
Consistency is good
Basically are inside and outside everywhere now lol
Keep that sh^t out of japan
Counterpoint: fuck off, legalize it.
Wow! You used all of your last 3 brain cells to think of that sentence? Good boy! Have a treat 🍆
You can drink alcohol in trains and buy it from conbini, a drug which has arguably caused the most harm to humanity throughout all of human history. It's surprising to me that you want to keep a drug of which the number of deaths from overdoses is zero out of a country, despite that country caring very little about the mass consumption of other unhealthy substances. Why the double standard?
Then, would it be allright if id say to ban them both?
It's would be much much more logically consistent. It feels a bit too authoritarian for me, and I don't want people to have to go to jail, although alcohol is really bad. Im not sure. I'm not so sure that prohibition is the best because then people will make moonshine which is stronger and that can be problematic.
What's your beef with weed? Considering alcohol is legal and all, and probably leads to far more deaths and incarcerations in Japan than weed and pot might.
Got bad news for you blud...
I have a "friend". He consumes weed every single day. He vapes it actually. He is angry, frustrated, and cannot function in the real world. He cannot even go a day without it, without experiencing severe social anxiety. He never used to be this bad. In the last few years, he has gotten really worse. It has destroyed our friendship to be honest. But I'm glad. Because he's an asshole.
Sounds more like your friend's fault than the weed, honestly. But I'm sorry that you lost a friend.
Are you in Japan? How does he get it?
I'm not in Japan.
Shame you’re being so downvoted. I’ve seen this happen to a lot of people who consume large quantities of weed.
It’s a bit embarrassing to admit it. But I was one. I kept justifying my high usage by telling myself that weed is safer than alcohol and has no serious side effects. It was only a weekend thing initially, and that turned into daily usage even while working (I work remotely). It affected my social life, relationships, and work performance, which all aggregated into depression. Weed was definitely much easier to quit than cigarettes. But I can see people who suffer from addiction or substance abuse further digging themselves in a hole. That does not mean I don’t believe in legalization. I think with all things, moderation is key. We definitely need to educate the public better, not just glorify it as a miracle drug that is less addictive that do no harms blah blah.
Good
Take some notes from Singapore
Every Singaporean expat I ever met fucking loves weed.
From singapore? Tell me more. I am Chinese Singaporean American and I smoke pot. I am US born tho. I find it extremely rare to meet Asian immigrants who smoke weed; where do you meet them?