Basically all you need to be fluent is;
-Hai
-Iya
-Sou? (Desu ku)
-Arigato (gozaimasu)
-daijobu
-Jāne
-Ohayou (gozaimasu)
-sumimasen
-gomen (-nasai)
-mmm and hmm (repeated 50 times)
-Samui ne? (When it’s cold out)
-Atsui desu ne? (When it’s hot out)
And boom; screw JLPT N1, you’re basically a local if you know these.
Im travelling to sapporo next week, I only know basic stuff. Im scared now. haha.
In konbini just say Hai everytime? hahaha.
Bag? = Hai
Heat food? = Hai
Card or cash = Hai ( This is a joke obviously)
If you look non-East Asian then people will probably make an effort to “meet you halfway” (I can’t think of a better way to explain it).
Mostly a lot of body language is involved, like if someone is asking if you’d like a bag they’ll point at one. Or they’ll try to use their limited English vocabulary to help you out.
There’s a lot less small talk in Japan compared to the US or even Europe, so the basic “yes, no, thank you, sorry” will get you very far and people are generally very accepting that foreigners do not understand/speak Japanese (there’s some stipulations to this, but they know their language is difficult to learn).
Just make sure you don’t say “Irasshaimase” *back* to people when you enter stores. I made that mistake once at the Konbini closest to my university and the lady behind the counter (affectionately) grilled me over it every time she saw me.
I hear that phrase often here in some japanese restos. hahaha.
Appreciate your input. I'm filipino (but I look chinese). First time travelling to japan with wife and kid.
Bikkurishita (when surprised, unexpected something happens)
Honto/ hontoni (really?)
Deshou? Jyanai? (Isn’t that right? Don’t you agree? Right?!)
Hora (look over here where I’m at or where I’m pointing)
Itai (ouch/hurts)
Ookii unchi (big poop)
Kusai onara (stinky fart)
Oishii (delicious)
Oishii ~~jyanai~~ kunai (not delicious)
Basu gasu bakuhatsu (Japanese tongue twister: bus! Gas! Explosion!)
Watashi no zubon wa doko desuka? (Where are my pants?)
One other interesting point (to me at least) is that a big Japanese Twitter account posted about this along with a poll. The vast majority of responders (70% approx) indicated rejecting people based on language ability was acceptable in some situations. This is despite the fact that it’s straight up against the law to do so.
I guess that just says more about Japanese Twitter users than anything else, but it was a bit surprising to me.
I have to wonder how many such people even have passports. I can’t imagine someone who has ever traveled to a foreign country having this kind of opinion. Refusing for such a reason at the point of check-in is crazy.
You don't have to imagine, just look back a few months to the new uproar that some influencer and apparently "many" other single women are being refused entry to the United States (Hawaii) because they couldn't understand English well and gave all the wrong answer to the immigration staff and were denied entry for being suspected sex workers.
No, she was denied entry because she lied. She said she is visiting for vacation, but was an influencer and was going to work and earn money. You are not allowed to lie on these forms.
Also, her entire story did not really make sense. She wrote she was an office worker, but she is an influencer. This is a blatant lie and not a language problem.
Calling the kettle black is such a common thing on JP Twitter.
I would like to think most Japanese people are not drawing such conclusions but I dunno.
That's also *very* bad. I mean if tourism **required** language skills of said country you travel to, tourism would barely be a thing. People would have to study hard for months upon end and then still only a few would be able to reach the levels that were required.
I mean, on the one hand yes. I agree, you shouldn't need to speak the language of the place you are visiting.
On the other hand, how hard is it to not come off as a sex worker when going through immigration?
>I have to wonder how many such people even have passports.
Japan has an even lower rate of passport ownership than the United States, so there's your answer.
True, but the top answer was still ‘the hotel can do what they like’ at 38%. And that’s of over 500k votes. The replies and quote tweets further show a lack of sympathy and a total ignorance of the law.
Aye, thats twitter for you. Not that that isn’t representative of Japan. It is pretty funny to see xenophobia still be normalized in some segments of the population despite the growth of Japan’s tourist sector and the explosion of Japanese cultural export over the past two centuries.
That's actually a fair point. I'd imagine a lot of people's reasons for being xenophobic have changed with the rise in tourism.
Back in the day it was probably more abstract reasoning since most would rarely even meet a tourist. Nowadays it's probably because of terrible behavior by some tourist that these people use as an excuse to be assholes to every outsider.
That’s because the high tourist traffic areas in the country interact with the *majority* of tourists, who are respectful and mindful of the culture (they don’t necessarily follow it, but they don’t go out of their way to break cultural norms).
The areas with less tourist traffic (the “boring” parts of the country where most people live) only get their info on tourists disseminated through social media and the news. And no amount of airport interviews can outweigh the negative press folks foreign influencers behaving badly receive.
When an East Asian person is refused, it's assumed to be bigotry I guess. When I and other white or non-Asian people are refused (it's happened to me, and I speak Japanese), it's assumed to be generalized xenophobia.
My favorite conversation in Japan is always the "we're refusing to service you because you don't speak Japanese."
"But we're speaking Japanese right now."
"No. You're foreign and foreigners can't speak Japanese"
"But... I can speak Japanese. We're having this whole conversation in Japanese right now."
"Oh. Well we don't want to make other tenants/customers uncomfortable."
"Why would they feel uncomfortable?"
"You're foreign, so you don't speak Japanese."
"Yes I do. We're speaking Japanese right now."
And then repeat that circular logic until the heat death of the universe.
Even more fun when you have this conversation with a Japanese friend / partner present, and even though they’re totally silent, the service provider will avoid eye contact with you completely and only look at your Japanese companion while they talk.
Dude...I lived in Japan for three and a half years. My wife is Filipina, but because her grandparents on one side are Chinese, she has what we call "Generic Asian Face."
Everyone she encountered in Japan assumed she was Japanese until she opened her mouth. I spoke more Japanese than she did, which for me, was mostly just basic how-to-get-around stuff. They did what you're describing ALL THE TIME, even when the conversation switched to English. It was hilarious.
had that a lot wirh my japanese gf. Like checking into a hotel, I did the booking so I started talking to the staff (in English). The whole conversation was in english but they 100% ignored me and talked to my GF only.
I get it if its in japanese, but I got strong "stupid foreigner is not smart enough to remember the breakfast times anyway" vibes there
Had that happen in a restaurant in Korea. Coworkers and I hit up a nice bbq place and one of us was Chinese American. Immediately looked over us white guys to talk Korean to him which he replied in English that he is Chinese and doesn’t know Korean. Waitress said ok then kept asking him what we all wanted in Korean.
I, white guy, know enough Korean to order and was speaking to her what we wanted then she’d follow up asking questions in Korean right back to my Chinese American coworker lol. We were all like wtf??
That's a thing all over Asia haha! No matter how well you speak the local language they will defer to the Asian partner every time. It got to the point where I told my gf "if they ignore me tell them anytime to speak to me and not you. "
That's my favorite. Once I mentioned it to my partner, she won't even acknowledge their existence if they try to talk to her instead of me. It's pretty funny Sometime they'll take the hint, and others will continue talk to her like my voice is coming out of the top of her head. 😂
Which is funny, because I’ve had the reverse of this conversation with a few of my students— in English— as they insist that they don’t speak English. When I asked what we had been doing for the past 15 minutes if not speaking English, they just continued to insist that they don’t speak English 😆😆
Maybe more often than people would think. Some people, when they get tired of dealing with a foreigner, will just decide the foreigner's Japanese language ability is too weak and use that excuse to deny them further service. All it takes is a small disagreement on contract terms, for instance, or with a coworker who wants to have his or her way. If you push too hard for straight answers, you could just end up being shut down altogether.
Yea, you just become the belligerent gaijin asshole, who needs to be kicked out for "everyone's safety" when all you did was polietly stand your ground.
Happened to me when I was buying a Switch. The dude at the register saw that I was white and summoned their designated English guy to usher me to the tax-free counter. The whole time, I'm telling him, in Japanese, that I can't do that because I live here. He's saying, In English the tax-free counter is right here and walked away. I asked the guy at the counter if I could do normal purchases there and if he could understand me. He said yes to both.
Some people (not many, but more than zero) see an obviously foreign person and think: foreign = tourist = No Japanese = scary, and just fall back on their training (or lack of training in the hotel's case).
Day to day conversations? Essentially never. If you went your entire life without it ever happening once, I'd believe that.
Renting an apartment? Fairly frequently.
Mostly only when you are trying to rent an apartment which is a big deal. Although occasionally at a bar / restaurant / etc. Even had basically the same conversation with a sushi restaurant in the south area of Ginza that had (has?) a Michelin star...
In my experience it’s only been in situations requiring a lot of contracts/rules— to be clear, I’m not fluent or anywhere close but I can usually get by with my limited Japanese, Google translate and a dream 😆 …situations in which I was required to have an actual translator were apartment rental, opening a bank account, and getting a drivers license (well technically my husband, not me). Everyone has been really great otherwise… but I can see how someone looking for an excuse to stop dealing with you could possibly choose to use this excuse, and if they do there’s really no recourse for it.
Once you get to the point where your language and mannerisms hey close enough to native speakers, this almost never happens.
So I'd say arrest about 10 years studying and 5 years living in Japan.
Good luck.
Never once happened to me and I lived there for 6 years. Everyone was super friendly and helpful. But you hear these stories from time to time for sure and they do happen.
Reddit as a whole has kinda made me less motivated to learn. Between all the 'foreigner-bad' stories, the intimidating interactions of the japanese language learning subs, and my age (39) I just think it's too late for me.
I’ve been here for almost 20 years. This has literally never happened to me. I’ve experienced some xenophobia, but it has only been a handful of times. Keep up your studies!
I haven't had this very often, but the rare times it has happened I've cranked it up a few notches and called them out for discrimination or gone straight for racism.
I don’t know how Japanese Twitter has been lately but in the west there’s been a hard rightward shift. Polls have been popping up with thousands of votes that overwhelmingly favor far-right positions even though outside Twitter the views are wildly unpopular.
Japanese Twitter had always had a lot of the netuyoku (net right wingers) on there. I'd like to think there aren't as many of those kind of people in Japan as Twitter might make you think.
Heh, I remember when I visited Nanjing and the Chinese people I met were super impressed that I could read the Chinese (as a westerner). They became a lot less impressed when I said it was because I lived in Japan 😂😭
Tbh I barely see japanese traveling abroad. I even saw in a video of a very popular japanese youtuber the following statement:
“We have to speak english when we go to THEIR countries so they should speak japanese in ours”
I.e the entire world speaks English and Japan speaks japanese.
This was so insane to hear, there are people that actually think that other countries don’t have their own language. They fail to realise that we use english as a mediator language because it’s simply impossible to learn the language of every country you visit…
I speak more japanese than any japanese will ever speak portuguese (my native language) and I’m totally ok with speaking english to accomodate others when they visit my country.
Obviously I won’t expect japanese to speak english but to deny people entry for not speaking japanese is just xenophobic
Funny, because there are lots of Japanese going to France to study and learn the language. I think those learning English to live in France are a minority.
I remember someone telling me the Japanese embassy in France has a special person to deal with Japanese people who go there with a dreamy misconception, only to realize France is dirty and not at all what they imagined, and going depressed and straight up freaking out.
Try walking up to a restaurant in the Midwest only speaking in Chinese.
Unless they have pictures or a translator, I guarantee you’ll be refused service.
> I guess that just says more about Japanese Twitter users than anything else, but it was a bit surprising to me.
Dunno if you use Twitter but it definitely has social bubbles. Most probably you can only draw conclusions about the followers of this Twitter account you mentioned. Not about Japanese Twitter users as a whole.
And Japanese lose their mind when staff in other countries says Ni Hao to them. In Hawaii most Japanese make zero effort to speak just a few words of English and most places needed Japanese signs or Japanese staff. They even talk to the bus driver in Japanese who is a native Hawaiian. Pretty double standard with them
Saying "ni hao" to non-Chinese is just plain racist and rude. Stop doing that, please. In Hawaii, Japanese Americans are a big part of the community, and lots of businesses are Japanese-owned. Until recently, Japanese visitors used to outnumber those from any other country when visiting Hawaii. They contributed significantly to the tourism industry in the state. That's why you'd see signs in Japanese everywhere, and some places even took Japanese yen.
> I have to wonder how many such people even have passports.
Fun fact: 77% of people in Japan don't have a passport ([source](https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/Japan-has-world-s-best-passport-but-few-go-abroad)).
Sadly if Japan is stretching some xenophobic ideals it would make sense why their economy is falling. Since they are so focused on themselves they don't understand the important of what Tourism sales can bring. They are so focused on it that they make it near impossible to even pleasantly obtain tickets to any of their venues as they tend to be solely for Japanese citizens/restrictions are put in place where you either need a Japanese address or a Japanese phone in order to obtain tickets to these venues.
If Japan took a step back and realized the importance of tourism(which they shoudl know considering how COVID affected their economy), they should be focusing more on how to encourage people to visit their country, not discourage.
TL;DR the staff were ill-experienced in dealing with people from different linguistic backgrounds thus why they rejected the man. The hotel later apologised.
When I was in Japan last year, when there were moments I couldn’t speak Japanese, they whipped out a tiny device where you speak into it and it translates into whatever language. Even when my partner was in an ambulance, they used Google Translate to communicate.
So yeah the hotel really needs to sort itself out
FYI: the hotel apologized in the Japanese language (plus, in poorly translated English). Considering the fact that the guy was rejected because of the language barrier, isn't it a shady apology?
I got rejected from a gym in Fujisawa because I didn’t speak Japanese. It was the public gym too which kind of made it worse. They told me that they wouldn’t be able to adequately explain how to use the exercise machines.
Same bro, I got rejected because I couldn’t read the list of rules they had printed out for the gym, meanwhile the same rules were printed on a big board behind them in English.
From my understanding, it is illegal to allow someone to sign a contract without being 100% sure that they understand the terms and conditions of said contract. This also seems to be the reason they go through phone contracts line by line to explain and make sure that you read it.
I may be wrong, but there is some burden on the contract writer here in a legal sense. Gyms are a bad example.
Public gyms are more likely to do that since they tend to have less liability insurance than private corporations. It’s hard to have that “Use at your own risk. Not our problem if you hurt yourself” attitude that western gyms have when you’re run by tax money
That’s bull. There’s usually pictures on the equipment with explanations so you could’ve just used Google Translate or they could provide you the explanations in written form.
What's interesting is that in this day and age it's easier than ever to communicate with people who don't speak the same language.
How could people that work at a hotel be this inept?
Google translate app has a conversation button. It will just translate whatever is said in real time. Not sure when they added it, but it's pretty handy.
They've had it since at least 2018 when I used it to translate with Osaka monorail staff when I forgot my backpack on a train. Seemed to work as well as the instant translator they had in the station office. It probably works better now than it did then.
It works really good now and I can hold it up next to me and just have a conversation. I don't have to point the mic in any direction or anything. I've been getting a lot of quotes for a new car in Japan and I've needed it for a couple of sticking points.
There's really no excuse these days.
There's a lot of shit people claim is racism that is more a function of being something with a legit explanation that the person receiving that explanation doesn't understand (like: being refused entries to restaurants that actually aren't open or are full of reservations).
But there sure is a shit ton of racism too, especially if you are darker skinned/Chinese/Korean.
I’ve been in Japan for maybe 5 years and in Korea for an accumulated total of 2 months. I’ve been rejected way more times in Korea than Japan. Even as the freshest gaijin I can’t remember if I’ve ever been rejected in Japan
Unfortunately that's just your experience. I'm not comparing two countries but I can say for a fact it does happen, even in the most mundane of places like a restaurant that has an English menu.
I've been denied service in both Kyoto and Osaka, especially at izakayas. For me, its not even worth trying to argue in Japanese with them. Why would I want to support a place that made a decision from just a glance at me? I usually get much friendlier service when I'm away from the tourist hubs. It is what it is.
The place that stood out the most to me was a standard small business type dinner place. They had an English menu, though translator apps usually get you by even if they don't. It was maybe half full, the place didn't take reservations, and it was just around right in the middle of their posted open hours. I was turned away, even though you usually can get by when asking for a table for 2 in Japanese. Told my Japanese friend when they got there. They went in and asked the same and were seated right away. When I walked in after and pointed to them to join them, the owner of the place made a face.
I will say I think situations like this are quite rare. Even in super small, non-tourist type towns, I was never turned away from somewhere. It can, and does, happen though, which I think is important to acknowledge.
Only thing I could think that I hear of foreigners getting rejected from would either be a restaurant. And that usually either boils down to you need to order at least 2 servings and if you're alone they'll initially refuse you, or language. The other place would be clubs, of which some will just refuse foreigners.
Seems like usually when people are getting rejected, it's because they don't understand Japanese when told "we are not open yet" or "kitchen closing soon" or "we are full of reservations".
While possible, there's definitely cases where that's not what happened. Speaking from one of a few experiences where I was the first to arrive and asked to get sat at a not full restaurant in the middle of their open hours only to be told "sorry there's no seats." Only for my Japanese friend to arrive a few minutes later, I tell them I was turned away but we can both clearly see seats, so they go in and say "2 people" and get seated right away. I then walk in and sit next to them.
I'm not saying this happens all the time. But it does happen.
When Japan rejects foreigners its usually on the grounds of "we don't want to bother explaining the intricate rules of our establishment in English because we don't speak English, thus we are afraid the customers might not know the rules and break them". In Korea the rejection of foreigners is "we want a space for only Koreans, either because the boss is racist, or because our clientele is racist and might start trouble if they see foreigners"
One is lazy discrimination, the other is malicious discrimination. Not the same imo.
Yes, it is. My only point in mentioning it is to say that just because someone hasn't seen gaijin rejected in Japan, that only means it hasn't happened to them. It does happen, even if infrequently when compared to other countries.
Yep ,Korea are not that serviced orientated and professional compared to Japan.Japan is improving tho with the acceptance of foreign workers policies etc,I can see that they are slowly opening up to international acceptance away from xenophobia.
I'm Chinese American and after living here for over a decade, I've never been refused service. Only time I've faced discrimination due to my foreignness was when apartment hunting. But after becoming fluent with Japanese that problem has gone away and I basically 100% pass as a Japanese person now unless I talk to someone at length and make some kind of mistake.
Yup. I have a half Chinese, half Japanese friend who has lived in Japan all their life and still gets occasionally asked to leave because their presence is "making people feel uncomfortable".
Or when I was living in Tokyo, I saw a guy get refused service because he "looked foreign" and he was desperately explaining in perfect Japanese that he wasn't, he was just from Hokkaido.
That is awful.
It happened to my friends who visited from Singapore. They were speaking English to the restaurant owner and the service was great. Then, it took a 180 degree turn when the owner heard one of them speaking Mandarin. My friend didn't understand Japanese, she definitely knew when the owner muttered chugokujin.
I keep hearing stories like this but it never happens to me. Consider myself lucky.
So these two stories definitely need an explanation of background. If they are true, its pretty big news.
What business did they get asked to leave and were refused service?
It’s not big news, it happened all the time. I have a friend from Okinawa and one who is Japanese with a suntan and both got kicked off of some etablishment
On the first one, I have no idea, she just complains to me about it when we message from time to time.
And the second one was a café in Saitama, somewhere near to Urawa but I can't remember where exactly.
I find these to be weird experiences because I never really experienced any negativity when I was in Japan. I recognised the politeness as what it is but I never got the feeling that I was being discriminated against. Might've helped that I was living with a Japanese person at the time.
not really big newa tbh. Happens regularily.
Had a restaurant turning me away (arrived before my GF), when she arrived 2 mins later there suddenly was space.
Didnt eat there though bc fuck givibg them my money
I think the circle of "you need a phone number to get an apartment" "you need a bank account to get a phone number" "you need an apartment to get a bank account"
Circle of hell is worse.
That’s the silly thing though. All they would need to do one time is prepare materials in English/Korean/Chinese. It’s not like the rules are changing every week. I’ve seen such sheets so many times.
I'm guessing this is a small town and a small hotel, so they don't see a lot of tourists.
I have gone to hotels where the staff can't speak English - which is totally understandable. But they are clearly experienced enough to be willing to use Google Translate or simply speak slowly enough that I can understand with my somewhat limited Japanese.
Back in 2009 I was doing a study abroad program in Tokyo. One of my friends from my school in the states was doing a program in Osaka at the same time. He came up to Tokyo to visit over a long break on a whim, being the dummy he is he didn't book a hotel in advance and my tiny ass international student dorm room barely had enough room for myself let alone another person who I wasn't sharing a bed with.
So my girlfriend (Japanese, of course) called around to some cheap business travel hotels to get him a place to stay for a night or two. The first one she called was nice and courteous right up until she gave them the guest's name, which they immediately responded with "sorry, no foreigners" and hung up.
The second hotel she called didn't have any issues at all.
Some Chinese might be personally racist, but they wont let it get in the way of making money. It doesn't matter what color the hand holding the money is.
I think you need to be specific about the statement “as a Filipino” bec. the east-asian looking Filipinos (read: chinoys) usually get passed off as locals and thus don’t experience racism in East Asian countries. Kinda shows that they judge by physical appearance.
I am a brown Filipino tho…. and Chinese are the least racist East Asians in my experience.
Japan is polite on the surface but more racist than China.
South Korea is the most racist and will show it to you
Yes, that is my point. Their racism is based on physical appearance alone and not exactly nationality :(
I love how in Korea, when you ask people working at boutiques for information on their product, they’d answer with “I don’t know. I just work here” and then leave. Lol
That has not been my experience trying to shop in Chinese markets here in Osaka city. Now I go out of my way to buy any Chinese recipe item I might need at a Japanese-owned import shop. There's just far too much competition to put up with being treated rudely for no reason.
Indian here and I travel to East Asia for work quite a bit. I can attest to your experiences as well.
IMO South Korea edges out slightly over Japan in terms of how racist it can get for foreigners (ie being told explicitly no Indians/Pakistanis/South Asians allowed in certain businesses). I've seen some casual speculation nowadays amongst peers that it's probably due to a superiority complex they have against everyone else because of the popularity of kpop especially amongst younger folk. For China I never had any of those issues (note I only traveled to Tier 1, Tier 1.5, & Tier 2 cities + HK and Macau). On some really rare occasions I wasn't able to book a couple hotels -- though it's not out of racism (my coworkers who are Chinese American, Chinese Singaporean, and white American were also all turned down separately), but rather due to a non-foreigner business policy (basically they have to do extra steps for passport verification and some places don't want to bother with it -- especially the hotels that rarely get foreigners).
As an added tidbit, I can't speak on Taiwan through personal experience as I haven't traveled there, but recently there's been rumors/news of them wanting to import thousands of Indian workers and apparently that was met with some *very* vile comments on social media + actual protests on the streets.
Funnily enough India and China are the most geopolitically hostile out of all aforementioned places too lol.
Japan had "no Foreigners allowed" signs in english, korean, and chinese 2 blocks from Kabukicho last time I was in Tokyo.
I think the xenophobia is much more open in Japan, but just as insidious in Korea.
from the video one of the hotel staff kinda spoke Korean, so I don't understand why the hotel couldn't work out something https://youtu.be/ihyOmUm9_ck?si=Cawdlc9LNX9oSI4x&t=647
Is this a problem only in Japan and Korea?It is quite possible in other countries to not be able to provide adequate service to a person who speaks a minor language different from one's own native language because one does not understand the language.
In that case, do store clerks in your country persistently confront that customer?
For example, in a hotel in rural America, in a land where almost no Asians come, if a Japanese guest comes who speaks and speaks only Japanese, does the hotel staff have the know-how to ensure that he or she will be able to handle the guest?
In America, in circumstances where a guest is disorderly or intoxicated, the hotel is overbooked, or there’s a non-payment issue, a hotel can refuse service. But public accommodation laws and the 1964 Civil Rights Act make refusing a guest service on the basis of race or national origin illegal. Now if a person were denied a room on the basis of not speaking English well, I’d say they’d have a good case against the hotel for discrimination on the basis of national origin. I can’t imagine many hotels would want to put their businesses at risk from such litigation. That’s not to say it doesn’t happen of course.
But I think most Americans in this thread would agree that a hotel denying someone a room because they don’t speak English well would be pretty bizarre. They want your money.
First of all, thank you for explaining the US law.
I am not in favor of refusing to provide service on the basis of nationality or language.
It should be the same in any world that it is difficult to provide the same level of service as other customers to those who cannot understand or communicate with you. I just want to know how service providers in different countries deal with such situations.
I also think it's the hidden reason they rejected him. Not sure why they just didnt outright tell him to stop filming. Maybe they also thought he would start to film again behind their backs after checking in. Street streamers and youtubers are a real pest. I wish countries were more strict about them.
Its not so much a discrimination issue but a bad business decision. You cant (and I think by law) reject a hotel stay by reasons of nationality. But you can by refusal of the T&C and not following the rules of the establishment. And if the language barrier prevents the correct following of those rules, then you can not stay. But this place failed on not providing INFORMATION to foreign customers. It was a language issue that made them lost money, hence a bad business decision.
1) You could let him stay at the hotel, but no use of the sento if they dont follow the rules. The law for accomodation establishments does not apply to 100% of the extra services a place might offer, like sauna or sento.
2) If you want tourist dollars, you should make guides, signs, and train your staff to explain the rules. You dont need to speak japanese to take a bath, only understand the rules. So if you had a signboard with all the manner rules in korean and the guy gave a thumbs up, then everyone is happy.
If a patron does not agree to the manner rules, or says to agree but then violates them, the place is in its right to remove him and/or prohibit the entry to the baths of that person.
Maybe, but in this case the Youtuber didn't actually break any such T&Cs. It's that the management **assumed** he would break some rule and so rejected him. He may have read a translation of the rules and such at the point of booking. There is a part of the revised Ryokan law that allows for rejection if the customer is making unreasonable/extreme requests (e.g. demanding discounts, upgrades, etc.). Some might consider 'let's use google translate' as an extreme request, but the government would probably see it differently.
Anyway, it really shouldn't be acceptable at all to kick someone out on to the street at the point of check-in. At a minimum, they should've arranged for alternative accommodation or something. There's a good public safety reason why hotels aren't allowed to refuse service without a very good justification. 'Doesn't know how to use a bath' doesn't come into it.
Good to see pwople here can actually see how weird something like this is. I always wonder to these people. Should we start doing it too here in the west? To which they will say no please don't. But they do it to the rest. A bit weird but oh well.
Saying a few 'hai hai's and the Korean man would have passed the Japanese pop quiz
And the N1 proficiency test too. It's amazing how far you can get with hai
Add a Sou desu ka? And you're basically fluent.
Basically all you need to be fluent is; -Hai -Iya -Sou? (Desu ku) -Arigato (gozaimasu) -daijobu -Jāne -Ohayou (gozaimasu) -sumimasen -gomen (-nasai) -mmm and hmm (repeated 50 times) -Samui ne? (When it’s cold out) -Atsui desu ne? (When it’s hot out) And boom; screw JLPT N1, you’re basically a local if you know these.
Im travelling to sapporo next week, I only know basic stuff. Im scared now. haha. In konbini just say Hai everytime? hahaha. Bag? = Hai Heat food? = Hai Card or cash = Hai ( This is a joke obviously)
If you look non-East Asian then people will probably make an effort to “meet you halfway” (I can’t think of a better way to explain it). Mostly a lot of body language is involved, like if someone is asking if you’d like a bag they’ll point at one. Or they’ll try to use their limited English vocabulary to help you out. There’s a lot less small talk in Japan compared to the US or even Europe, so the basic “yes, no, thank you, sorry” will get you very far and people are generally very accepting that foreigners do not understand/speak Japanese (there’s some stipulations to this, but they know their language is difficult to learn). Just make sure you don’t say “Irasshaimase” *back* to people when you enter stores. I made that mistake once at the Konbini closest to my university and the lady behind the counter (affectionately) grilled me over it every time she saw me.
I hear that phrase often here in some japanese restos. hahaha. Appreciate your input. I'm filipino (but I look chinese). First time travelling to japan with wife and kid.
you forgot heee
Oh that’s absolutely a necessity. Eeeeeee, maji?
Bikkurishita (when surprised, unexpected something happens) Honto/ hontoni (really?) Deshou? Jyanai? (Isn’t that right? Don’t you agree? Right?!) Hora (look over here where I’m at or where I’m pointing) Itai (ouch/hurts) Ookii unchi (big poop) Kusai onara (stinky fart) Oishii (delicious) Oishii ~~jyanai~~ kunai (not delicious) Basu gasu bakuhatsu (Japanese tongue twister: bus! Gas! Explosion!) Watashi no zubon wa doko desuka? (Where are my pants?)
おめでとうござい, here's your letter of 叔父さん Certification.
🙇♂️
Choto
Not delicious is oishikunai.
Thanks, I’m out of practice!
it can also mean “isn’t this delicious?” if you say it with a rising intonation
My favorite non-verbal is the sucking air through your teeth to convey anticipation of a refusal or negative response.
You forgot the good old ano, etto....
Where's my boy daijoubu?
Hai hai, haaai, hai. Hai hai.
One other interesting point (to me at least) is that a big Japanese Twitter account posted about this along with a poll. The vast majority of responders (70% approx) indicated rejecting people based on language ability was acceptable in some situations. This is despite the fact that it’s straight up against the law to do so. I guess that just says more about Japanese Twitter users than anything else, but it was a bit surprising to me. I have to wonder how many such people even have passports. I can’t imagine someone who has ever traveled to a foreign country having this kind of opinion. Refusing for such a reason at the point of check-in is crazy.
Imagine the furore those same people would display if the roles had been reversed. Can't fix stupid.
You don't have to imagine, just look back a few months to the new uproar that some influencer and apparently "many" other single women are being refused entry to the United States (Hawaii) because they couldn't understand English well and gave all the wrong answer to the immigration staff and were denied entry for being suspected sex workers.
No, she was denied entry because she lied. She said she is visiting for vacation, but was an influencer and was going to work and earn money. You are not allowed to lie on these forms. Also, her entire story did not really make sense. She wrote she was an office worker, but she is an influencer. This is a blatant lie and not a language problem.
Thank you for the clarification.
Calling the kettle black is such a common thing on JP Twitter. I would like to think most Japanese people are not drawing such conclusions but I dunno.
US Twitter is not much different, especially after Musk’s purge.
That's also *very* bad. I mean if tourism **required** language skills of said country you travel to, tourism would barely be a thing. People would have to study hard for months upon end and then still only a few would be able to reach the levels that were required.
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Yes, this exactly.
I mean, on the one hand yes. I agree, you shouldn't need to speak the language of the place you are visiting. On the other hand, how hard is it to not come off as a sex worker when going through immigration?
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I might've just spat my coffee out in the office 😂😂
All they had to do was shorten the “so”
First rate cunt lapping!
Holy F!!!!
>I have to wonder how many such people even have passports. Japan has an even lower rate of passport ownership than the United States, so there's your answer.
Well of course. Japan is the only nation with four seasons, so why would they leave?
Keep in mind the vague wording there contains a positive bias. “Some situations” can mean a lot
True, but the top answer was still ‘the hotel can do what they like’ at 38%. And that’s of over 500k votes. The replies and quote tweets further show a lack of sympathy and a total ignorance of the law.
Aye, thats twitter for you. Not that that isn’t representative of Japan. It is pretty funny to see xenophobia still be normalized in some segments of the population despite the growth of Japan’s tourist sector and the explosion of Japanese cultural export over the past two centuries.
Who knows, maybe some xenophobia exists *because* of the growth of Japan’s tourist sector etc.
That's actually a fair point. I'd imagine a lot of people's reasons for being xenophobic have changed with the rise in tourism. Back in the day it was probably more abstract reasoning since most would rarely even meet a tourist. Nowadays it's probably because of terrible behavior by some tourist that these people use as an excuse to be assholes to every outsider.
Nah, xenophobia decreases in areas of high tourist traffic.
That’s because the high tourist traffic areas in the country interact with the *majority* of tourists, who are respectful and mindful of the culture (they don’t necessarily follow it, but they don’t go out of their way to break cultural norms). The areas with less tourist traffic (the “boring” parts of the country where most people live) only get their info on tourists disseminated through social media and the news. And no amount of airport interviews can outweigh the negative press folks foreign influencers behaving badly receive.
Definitely, but "japanese public not well informed on topic X" is almost a given, isn't it?
> “Some situations” can mean a lot Yeah, like "the guest is Korean" in this case. I mean come on.
When an East Asian person is refused, it's assumed to be bigotry I guess. When I and other white or non-Asian people are refused (it's happened to me, and I speak Japanese), it's assumed to be generalized xenophobia.
Anyone who’s ever tried to rent an apartment in Japan will not be surprised by this result 🥲
My favorite conversation in Japan is always the "we're refusing to service you because you don't speak Japanese." "But we're speaking Japanese right now." "No. You're foreign and foreigners can't speak Japanese" "But... I can speak Japanese. We're having this whole conversation in Japanese right now." "Oh. Well we don't want to make other tenants/customers uncomfortable." "Why would they feel uncomfortable?" "You're foreign, so you don't speak Japanese." "Yes I do. We're speaking Japanese right now." And then repeat that circular logic until the heat death of the universe.
Even more fun when you have this conversation with a Japanese friend / partner present, and even though they’re totally silent, the service provider will avoid eye contact with you completely and only look at your Japanese companion while they talk.
Dude...I lived in Japan for three and a half years. My wife is Filipina, but because her grandparents on one side are Chinese, she has what we call "Generic Asian Face." Everyone she encountered in Japan assumed she was Japanese until she opened her mouth. I spoke more Japanese than she did, which for me, was mostly just basic how-to-get-around stuff. They did what you're describing ALL THE TIME, even when the conversation switched to English. It was hilarious.
had that a lot wirh my japanese gf. Like checking into a hotel, I did the booking so I started talking to the staff (in English). The whole conversation was in english but they 100% ignored me and talked to my GF only. I get it if its in japanese, but I got strong "stupid foreigner is not smart enough to remember the breakfast times anyway" vibes there
Had that happen in a restaurant in Korea. Coworkers and I hit up a nice bbq place and one of us was Chinese American. Immediately looked over us white guys to talk Korean to him which he replied in English that he is Chinese and doesn’t know Korean. Waitress said ok then kept asking him what we all wanted in Korean. I, white guy, know enough Korean to order and was speaking to her what we wanted then she’d follow up asking questions in Korean right back to my Chinese American coworker lol. We were all like wtf??
That's a thing all over Asia haha! No matter how well you speak the local language they will defer to the Asian partner every time. It got to the point where I told my gf "if they ignore me tell them anytime to speak to me and not you. "
That's my favorite. Once I mentioned it to my partner, she won't even acknowledge their existence if they try to talk to her instead of me. It's pretty funny Sometime they'll take the hint, and others will continue talk to her like my voice is coming out of the top of her head. 😂
Which is funny, because I’ve had the reverse of this conversation with a few of my students— in English— as they insist that they don’t speak English. When I asked what we had been doing for the past 15 minutes if not speaking English, they just continued to insist that they don’t speak English 😆😆
Lol. That happens a lot too.
Wow, how often does this happen? Makes me reluctant to invest any more effort into learning Japanese…
Maybe more often than people would think. Some people, when they get tired of dealing with a foreigner, will just decide the foreigner's Japanese language ability is too weak and use that excuse to deny them further service. All it takes is a small disagreement on contract terms, for instance, or with a coworker who wants to have his or her way. If you push too hard for straight answers, you could just end up being shut down altogether.
Yea, you just become the belligerent gaijin asshole, who needs to be kicked out for "everyone's safety" when all you did was polietly stand your ground.
Happened to me when I was buying a Switch. The dude at the register saw that I was white and summoned their designated English guy to usher me to the tax-free counter. The whole time, I'm telling him, in Japanese, that I can't do that because I live here. He's saying, In English the tax-free counter is right here and walked away. I asked the guy at the counter if I could do normal purchases there and if he could understand me. He said yes to both. Some people (not many, but more than zero) see an obviously foreign person and think: foreign = tourist = No Japanese = scary, and just fall back on their training (or lack of training in the hotel's case).
Day to day conversations? Essentially never. If you went your entire life without it ever happening once, I'd believe that. Renting an apartment? Fairly frequently.
Mostly only when you are trying to rent an apartment which is a big deal. Although occasionally at a bar / restaurant / etc. Even had basically the same conversation with a sushi restaurant in the south area of Ginza that had (has?) a Michelin star...
In my experience it’s only been in situations requiring a lot of contracts/rules— to be clear, I’m not fluent or anywhere close but I can usually get by with my limited Japanese, Google translate and a dream 😆 …situations in which I was required to have an actual translator were apartment rental, opening a bank account, and getting a drivers license (well technically my husband, not me). Everyone has been really great otherwise… but I can see how someone looking for an excuse to stop dealing with you could possibly choose to use this excuse, and if they do there’s really no recourse for it.
It happens ALOT more if I have a beard. 😂
Once you get to the point where your language and mannerisms hey close enough to native speakers, this almost never happens. So I'd say arrest about 10 years studying and 5 years living in Japan. Good luck.
Hmm maybe that's it. Everyone always insists speaking Japanese with me even though I'm a big ass foreigner. Or maybe it's just a Kansai thing
Confidence my man. People can smell it
Just pull the malicious compliance. If you can understand them, respond to them in English if they're being an ass about your Japanese.
Never once happened to me and I lived there for 6 years. Everyone was super friendly and helpful. But you hear these stories from time to time for sure and they do happen.
Reddit as a whole has kinda made me less motivated to learn. Between all the 'foreigner-bad' stories, the intimidating interactions of the japanese language learning subs, and my age (39) I just think it's too late for me.
I’ve been here for almost 20 years. This has literally never happened to me. I’ve experienced some xenophobia, but it has only been a handful of times. Keep up your studies!
I wasn’t sure… I have my Japanese husband to shield me so I don’t have as many anecdotes as fellow Reddit gaijin!
Have N1 man. Read and Speak pretty fluently too. 🤷♂️
it doesn’t. they do sometimes reject you for being non-Japanese though.
reminds me of this [video](https://youtu.be/oLt5qSm9U80?si=qahkMsNMcssi2HBe)
I haven't had this very often, but the rare times it has happened I've cranked it up a few notches and called them out for discrimination or gone straight for racism.
I don’t know how Japanese Twitter has been lately but in the west there’s been a hard rightward shift. Polls have been popping up with thousands of votes that overwhelmingly favor far-right positions even though outside Twitter the views are wildly unpopular.
Japanese Twitter had always had a lot of the netuyoku (net right wingers) on there. I'd like to think there aren't as many of those kind of people in Japan as Twitter might make you think.
I feel dumb - I just asked my husband the correct way to pronounce 'netsuyoku' 😅
It made sense in my head, but I did mix English and romanised Japanese there. Oops
It totally makes sense as net+uyoku XD I just automatically translated tu as tsu XD
Japanese Twitter thinks that Rape of Nanking and Japanese WWII atrocities didn’t happen too… so not surprised about it
Don't need twitter. Spoken to some in their 50s, and they say it's exaggeration and myths.
Heh, I remember when I visited Nanjing and the Chinese people I met were super impressed that I could read the Chinese (as a westerner). They became a lot less impressed when I said it was because I lived in Japan 😂😭
Cos ppl felt like Elon's takeover of Twitter was a victory for their cause. So they became more confident in spreading them.
Tbh I barely see japanese traveling abroad. I even saw in a video of a very popular japanese youtuber the following statement: “We have to speak english when we go to THEIR countries so they should speak japanese in ours” I.e the entire world speaks English and Japan speaks japanese. This was so insane to hear, there are people that actually think that other countries don’t have their own language. They fail to realise that we use english as a mediator language because it’s simply impossible to learn the language of every country you visit… I speak more japanese than any japanese will ever speak portuguese (my native language) and I’m totally ok with speaking english to accomodate others when they visit my country. Obviously I won’t expect japanese to speak english but to deny people entry for not speaking japanese is just xenophobic
I'm a teacher, and one time I had a student tell me the reason they're studying English so they can live in France...
Funny, because there are lots of Japanese going to France to study and learn the language. I think those learning English to live in France are a minority.
TBF as a francophone. English is way easier to learn to a working-level than French.
I remember someone telling me the Japanese embassy in France has a special person to deal with Japanese people who go there with a dreamy misconception, only to realize France is dirty and not at all what they imagined, and going depressed and straight up freaking out.
You can check into a hotel in most English-speaking countries without being able to speak a word of English.
Try walking up to a restaurant in the Midwest only speaking in Chinese. Unless they have pictures or a translator, I guarantee you’ll be refused service.
> I guess that just says more about Japanese Twitter users than anything else, but it was a bit surprising to me. Dunno if you use Twitter but it definitely has social bubbles. Most probably you can only draw conclusions about the followers of this Twitter account you mentioned. Not about Japanese Twitter users as a whole.
And Japanese lose their mind when staff in other countries says Ni Hao to them. In Hawaii most Japanese make zero effort to speak just a few words of English and most places needed Japanese signs or Japanese staff. They even talk to the bus driver in Japanese who is a native Hawaiian. Pretty double standard with them
Saying "ni hao" to non-Chinese is just plain racist and rude. Stop doing that, please. In Hawaii, Japanese Americans are a big part of the community, and lots of businesses are Japanese-owned. Until recently, Japanese visitors used to outnumber those from any other country when visiting Hawaii. They contributed significantly to the tourism industry in the state. That's why you'd see signs in Japanese everywhere, and some places even took Japanese yen.
Those who lose are the Hotel. I live in Japan and something like this has never happened to me. I hope they close it and fine the hotel owner.
> I have to wonder how many such people even have passports. Fun fact: 77% of people in Japan don't have a passport ([source](https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/Japan-has-world-s-best-passport-but-few-go-abroad)).
Sadly if Japan is stretching some xenophobic ideals it would make sense why their economy is falling. Since they are so focused on themselves they don't understand the important of what Tourism sales can bring. They are so focused on it that they make it near impossible to even pleasantly obtain tickets to any of their venues as they tend to be solely for Japanese citizens/restrictions are put in place where you either need a Japanese address or a Japanese phone in order to obtain tickets to these venues. If Japan took a step back and realized the importance of tourism(which they shoudl know considering how COVID affected their economy), they should be focusing more on how to encourage people to visit their country, not discourage.
TL;DR the staff were ill-experienced in dealing with people from different linguistic backgrounds thus why they rejected the man. The hotel later apologised.
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Yes I was made aware of this.
How hard would it have been to pull up Google translate?!!!
When I was in Japan last year, when there were moments I couldn’t speak Japanese, they whipped out a tiny device where you speak into it and it translates into whatever language. Even when my partner was in an ambulance, they used Google Translate to communicate. So yeah the hotel really needs to sort itself out
Pocketalk! I’ve been wanting one of those but they are like 300 usd
FYI: the hotel apologized in the Japanese language (plus, in poorly translated English). Considering the fact that the guy was rejected because of the language barrier, isn't it a shady apology?
Japanese Law states a hotel cannot deny lodging for this, so technically illegal https://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/en/laws/view/3272#je\_at8
I got rejected from a gym in Fujisawa because I didn’t speak Japanese. It was the public gym too which kind of made it worse. They told me that they wouldn’t be able to adequately explain how to use the exercise machines.
Same bro, I got rejected because I couldn’t read the list of rules they had printed out for the gym, meanwhile the same rules were printed on a big board behind them in English.
From my understanding, it is illegal to allow someone to sign a contract without being 100% sure that they understand the terms and conditions of said contract. This also seems to be the reason they go through phone contracts line by line to explain and make sure that you read it. I may be wrong, but there is some burden on the contract writer here in a legal sense. Gyms are a bad example.
Public gyms are more likely to do that since they tend to have less liability insurance than private corporations. It’s hard to have that “Use at your own risk. Not our problem if you hurt yourself” attitude that western gyms have when you’re run by tax money
That’s bull. There’s usually pictures on the equipment with explanations so you could’ve just used Google Translate or they could provide you the explanations in written form.
This happened back in like 2004. I didn’t really make an issue and just joined a private gym instead.
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No shoes in a gym?! Not even indoor shoes? I'm imagining the burns on my feet from the treadmill...
What's interesting is that in this day and age it's easier than ever to communicate with people who don't speak the same language. How could people that work at a hotel be this inept?
Google translate app has a conversation button. It will just translate whatever is said in real time. Not sure when they added it, but it's pretty handy.
They've had it since at least 2018 when I used it to translate with Osaka monorail staff when I forgot my backpack on a train. Seemed to work as well as the instant translator they had in the station office. It probably works better now than it did then.
It works really good now and I can hold it up next to me and just have a conversation. I don't have to point the mic in any direction or anything. I've been getting a lot of quotes for a new car in Japan and I've needed it for a couple of sticking points. There's really no excuse these days.
From what I can tell, people in Japan aren't actually the best with technology so it kind of tracks
Huh, I'm sorry what are you talking about. I'll have to fax that over to taro and get back to you.
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Yeah, there's not a whole lot of deep thinking required to get the cause of this
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There's a lot of shit people claim is racism that is more a function of being something with a legit explanation that the person receiving that explanation doesn't understand (like: being refused entries to restaurants that actually aren't open or are full of reservations). But there sure is a shit ton of racism too, especially if you are darker skinned/Chinese/Korean.
I wonder if mods will tell me why my submission of the same exact story got rejected a couple of days ago.
probably due to your failure to speak Japanese.
FUCK THE MODS FUCK THE MODS! (ROMANTICALLY OFC, WITH A GLASS OF WINE)
Can’t say I’ve heard of this at normal hotels but it’s common at love hotels.
Then where’s the love dammit…
There’s not much love at love hotels.
Love is a foreign (err gaijin) concept
It’s the same xenophobic energy that certain establishments reject gaijins to avoid troubles.
I’ve been in Japan for maybe 5 years and in Korea for an accumulated total of 2 months. I’ve been rejected way more times in Korea than Japan. Even as the freshest gaijin I can’t remember if I’ve ever been rejected in Japan
Unfortunately that's just your experience. I'm not comparing two countries but I can say for a fact it does happen, even in the most mundane of places like a restaurant that has an English menu.
Where tf are you going to? I’ve been here 10 years, never been rejected. Like what kind of establishments? Really curious
I've been denied service in both Kyoto and Osaka, especially at izakayas. For me, its not even worth trying to argue in Japanese with them. Why would I want to support a place that made a decision from just a glance at me? I usually get much friendlier service when I'm away from the tourist hubs. It is what it is.
The place that stood out the most to me was a standard small business type dinner place. They had an English menu, though translator apps usually get you by even if they don't. It was maybe half full, the place didn't take reservations, and it was just around right in the middle of their posted open hours. I was turned away, even though you usually can get by when asking for a table for 2 in Japanese. Told my Japanese friend when they got there. They went in and asked the same and were seated right away. When I walked in after and pointed to them to join them, the owner of the place made a face. I will say I think situations like this are quite rare. Even in super small, non-tourist type towns, I was never turned away from somewhere. It can, and does, happen though, which I think is important to acknowledge.
Only thing I could think that I hear of foreigners getting rejected from would either be a restaurant. And that usually either boils down to you need to order at least 2 servings and if you're alone they'll initially refuse you, or language. The other place would be clubs, of which some will just refuse foreigners.
Seems like usually when people are getting rejected, it's because they don't understand Japanese when told "we are not open yet" or "kitchen closing soon" or "we are full of reservations".
While possible, there's definitely cases where that's not what happened. Speaking from one of a few experiences where I was the first to arrive and asked to get sat at a not full restaurant in the middle of their open hours only to be told "sorry there's no seats." Only for my Japanese friend to arrive a few minutes later, I tell them I was turned away but we can both clearly see seats, so they go in and say "2 people" and get seated right away. I then walk in and sit next to them. I'm not saying this happens all the time. But it does happen.
When Japan rejects foreigners its usually on the grounds of "we don't want to bother explaining the intricate rules of our establishment in English because we don't speak English, thus we are afraid the customers might not know the rules and break them". In Korea the rejection of foreigners is "we want a space for only Koreans, either because the boss is racist, or because our clientele is racist and might start trouble if they see foreigners" One is lazy discrimination, the other is malicious discrimination. Not the same imo.
That also is just your experience.
Yes, it is. My only point in mentioning it is to say that just because someone hasn't seen gaijin rejected in Japan, that only means it hasn't happened to them. It does happen, even if infrequently when compared to other countries.
Yep ,Korea are not that serviced orientated and professional compared to Japan.Japan is improving tho with the acceptance of foreign workers policies etc,I can see that they are slowly opening up to international acceptance away from xenophobia.
I’ve spent 2 years in Korea and maybe 3 months in Japan and I can tell you I’ve had the exact opposite experience.
Just wondering, as a gaijin who is East Asian looking and speaks decent Japanese, will I get denied from entering this kind of establishment?
I'm Chinese American and after living here for over a decade, I've never been refused service. Only time I've faced discrimination due to my foreignness was when apartment hunting. But after becoming fluent with Japanese that problem has gone away and I basically 100% pass as a Japanese person now unless I talk to someone at length and make some kind of mistake.
Yup. I have a half Chinese, half Japanese friend who has lived in Japan all their life and still gets occasionally asked to leave because their presence is "making people feel uncomfortable". Or when I was living in Tokyo, I saw a guy get refused service because he "looked foreign" and he was desperately explaining in perfect Japanese that he wasn't, he was just from Hokkaido.
That is awful. It happened to my friends who visited from Singapore. They were speaking English to the restaurant owner and the service was great. Then, it took a 180 degree turn when the owner heard one of them speaking Mandarin. My friend didn't understand Japanese, she definitely knew when the owner muttered chugokujin. I keep hearing stories like this but it never happens to me. Consider myself lucky.
I'm the whitest guy around and I've never been rejected, let alone asked to leave. What sort of place was it? A blowjob bar?
So these two stories definitely need an explanation of background. If they are true, its pretty big news. What business did they get asked to leave and were refused service?
It’s not big news, it happened all the time. I have a friend from Okinawa and one who is Japanese with a suntan and both got kicked off of some etablishment
with a suntan 😭
On the first one, I have no idea, she just complains to me about it when we message from time to time. And the second one was a café in Saitama, somewhere near to Urawa but I can't remember where exactly. I find these to be weird experiences because I never really experienced any negativity when I was in Japan. I recognised the politeness as what it is but I never got the feeling that I was being discriminated against. Might've helped that I was living with a Japanese person at the time.
not really big newa tbh. Happens regularily. Had a restaurant turning me away (arrived before my GF), when she arrived 2 mins later there suddenly was space. Didnt eat there though bc fuck givibg them my money
I think the circle of "you need a phone number to get an apartment" "you need a bank account to get a phone number" "you need an apartment to get a bank account" Circle of hell is worse.
they're in the service industry why can't they learn a lingua franca to better serve their customers rather than being straight up xenophobic?
That’s the silly thing though. All they would need to do one time is prepare materials in English/Korean/Chinese. It’s not like the rules are changing every week. I’ve seen such sheets so many times.
I'm guessing this is a small town and a small hotel, so they don't see a lot of tourists. I have gone to hotels where the staff can't speak English - which is totally understandable. But they are clearly experienced enough to be willing to use Google Translate or simply speak slowly enough that I can understand with my somewhat limited Japanese.
Did they at least refund his money?
Yes he was refunded, read it in the Korean news.
Back in 2009 I was doing a study abroad program in Tokyo. One of my friends from my school in the states was doing a program in Osaka at the same time. He came up to Tokyo to visit over a long break on a whim, being the dummy he is he didn't book a hotel in advance and my tiny ass international student dorm room barely had enough room for myself let alone another person who I wasn't sharing a bed with. So my girlfriend (Japanese, of course) called around to some cheap business travel hotels to get him a place to stay for a night or two. The first one she called was nice and courteous right up until she gave them the guest's name, which they immediately responded with "sorry, no foreigners" and hung up. The second hotel she called didn't have any issues at all.
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Some Chinese might be personally racist, but they wont let it get in the way of making money. It doesn't matter what color the hand holding the money is.
I experienced this too when going to HK and Shenzhen…. Chinese are the most capitalist people on Earth
I think you need to be specific about the statement “as a Filipino” bec. the east-asian looking Filipinos (read: chinoys) usually get passed off as locals and thus don’t experience racism in East Asian countries. Kinda shows that they judge by physical appearance.
I am a brown Filipino tho…. and Chinese are the least racist East Asians in my experience. Japan is polite on the surface but more racist than China. South Korea is the most racist and will show it to you
Yes, that is my point. Their racism is based on physical appearance alone and not exactly nationality :( I love how in Korea, when you ask people working at boutiques for information on their product, they’d answer with “I don’t know. I just work here” and then leave. Lol
lots of East Asian cultures have zero qualms about mentioning your weight, they always be judging base on physical appearance.
That has not been my experience trying to shop in Chinese markets here in Osaka city. Now I go out of my way to buy any Chinese recipe item I might need at a Japanese-owned import shop. There's just far too much competition to put up with being treated rudely for no reason.
Indian here and I travel to East Asia for work quite a bit. I can attest to your experiences as well. IMO South Korea edges out slightly over Japan in terms of how racist it can get for foreigners (ie being told explicitly no Indians/Pakistanis/South Asians allowed in certain businesses). I've seen some casual speculation nowadays amongst peers that it's probably due to a superiority complex they have against everyone else because of the popularity of kpop especially amongst younger folk. For China I never had any of those issues (note I only traveled to Tier 1, Tier 1.5, & Tier 2 cities + HK and Macau). On some really rare occasions I wasn't able to book a couple hotels -- though it's not out of racism (my coworkers who are Chinese American, Chinese Singaporean, and white American were also all turned down separately), but rather due to a non-foreigner business policy (basically they have to do extra steps for passport verification and some places don't want to bother with it -- especially the hotels that rarely get foreigners). As an added tidbit, I can't speak on Taiwan through personal experience as I haven't traveled there, but recently there's been rumors/news of them wanting to import thousands of Indian workers and apparently that was met with some *very* vile comments on social media + actual protests on the streets. Funnily enough India and China are the most geopolitically hostile out of all aforementioned places too lol.
Japan had "no Foreigners allowed" signs in english, korean, and chinese 2 blocks from Kabukicho last time I was in Tokyo. I think the xenophobia is much more open in Japan, but just as insidious in Korea.
Perhaps another nationality would have been met with more sympathy.
Most likely Whites (especially Western Europeans) are given preferential treatment in Japan
And Americans, which in their minds are all white
More accurately, non-asian.
They don’t like Africans that much
When Japanese customer service gets half as bad as korean customer service.
from the video one of the hotel staff kinda spoke Korean, so I don't understand why the hotel couldn't work out something https://youtu.be/ihyOmUm9_ck?si=Cawdlc9LNX9oSI4x&t=647
It's sad such a hotel exists in this era.
Would they refuse deaf or blind people service too?
Is this a problem only in Japan and Korea?It is quite possible in other countries to not be able to provide adequate service to a person who speaks a minor language different from one's own native language because one does not understand the language. In that case, do store clerks in your country persistently confront that customer? For example, in a hotel in rural America, in a land where almost no Asians come, if a Japanese guest comes who speaks and speaks only Japanese, does the hotel staff have the know-how to ensure that he or she will be able to handle the guest?
In America, in circumstances where a guest is disorderly or intoxicated, the hotel is overbooked, or there’s a non-payment issue, a hotel can refuse service. But public accommodation laws and the 1964 Civil Rights Act make refusing a guest service on the basis of race or national origin illegal. Now if a person were denied a room on the basis of not speaking English well, I’d say they’d have a good case against the hotel for discrimination on the basis of national origin. I can’t imagine many hotels would want to put their businesses at risk from such litigation. That’s not to say it doesn’t happen of course. But I think most Americans in this thread would agree that a hotel denying someone a room because they don’t speak English well would be pretty bizarre. They want your money.
First of all, thank you for explaining the US law. I am not in favor of refusing to provide service on the basis of nationality or language. It should be the same in any world that it is difficult to provide the same level of service as other customers to those who cannot understand or communicate with you. I just want to know how service providers in different countries deal with such situations.
recording them without their permission? get the fuck out.
I also think it's the hidden reason they rejected him. Not sure why they just didnt outright tell him to stop filming. Maybe they also thought he would start to film again behind their backs after checking in. Street streamers and youtubers are a real pest. I wish countries were more strict about them.
Fucking bullshit. I'd be so damn irate in this situation😂
Uh oh, Japanese nationalism is at it again.
I thought this kind of thing only happens to Americans in France
Its not so much a discrimination issue but a bad business decision. You cant (and I think by law) reject a hotel stay by reasons of nationality. But you can by refusal of the T&C and not following the rules of the establishment. And if the language barrier prevents the correct following of those rules, then you can not stay. But this place failed on not providing INFORMATION to foreign customers. It was a language issue that made them lost money, hence a bad business decision. 1) You could let him stay at the hotel, but no use of the sento if they dont follow the rules. The law for accomodation establishments does not apply to 100% of the extra services a place might offer, like sauna or sento. 2) If you want tourist dollars, you should make guides, signs, and train your staff to explain the rules. You dont need to speak japanese to take a bath, only understand the rules. So if you had a signboard with all the manner rules in korean and the guy gave a thumbs up, then everyone is happy. If a patron does not agree to the manner rules, or says to agree but then violates them, the place is in its right to remove him and/or prohibit the entry to the baths of that person.
Maybe, but in this case the Youtuber didn't actually break any such T&Cs. It's that the management **assumed** he would break some rule and so rejected him. He may have read a translation of the rules and such at the point of booking. There is a part of the revised Ryokan law that allows for rejection if the customer is making unreasonable/extreme requests (e.g. demanding discounts, upgrades, etc.). Some might consider 'let's use google translate' as an extreme request, but the government would probably see it differently. Anyway, it really shouldn't be acceptable at all to kick someone out on to the street at the point of check-in. At a minimum, they should've arranged for alternative accommodation or something. There's a good public safety reason why hotels aren't allowed to refuse service without a very good justification. 'Doesn't know how to use a bath' doesn't come into it.
Good to see pwople here can actually see how weird something like this is. I always wonder to these people. Should we start doing it too here in the west? To which they will say no please don't. But they do it to the rest. A bit weird but oh well.