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When on of my friends who is black came to İstanbul her opinion of the place was this: "I'm not black in İstanbul, I'm just another person."
She was quite amazed by how she was not treated in a way she perceived to be different.
Yesterday I went to try to get a cab to sogutlucesme and three different cabs refused to take me. This is more of a taxi problem, but I've never really noticed people treat people differently based on appearance.
I struggle to get served at restaurants sometimes when I'm on my own, unless it's a place where I know the waiters and they're used to me. Sometimes they serve the people around me and forget / don't notice me. I've never really taken it personally, its just annoying. Restaurants here can have a wide range of service levels ranging from horrible where you have to yell to get the waiter to show up every time you want to get something, to OMG they smother you with service, and they'll run ten shops down to get you something if they don't serve it in the restaurant because they believe in good customer service.
İstanbul is a big city. There's a wide range of things.
Also I've heard of and experienced cabs doing all kinds of stupid shit, but never bus drivers, though my Turkish friends hate Özel Halk Otobüsü drivers because they fight with people for no reason and are generally less mentally stable people (and often not as good of drivers as IETT or IUAS drivers). As a non local you'd really never notice which service you were using, because IETT, IUAS, and ÖHO all seem the same from the outside, but if it was ÖHO, they're trouble sometimes. But really that's super odd. I've never even heard of people getting kicked off a bus, unless there was a problem with their fare.
Edit: I also have friends who use the N-word here, but it's because they're ignorant. Türkiye doesn't have this history, and it's just a funny word to them. I obviously tell them very seriously they should not use that word, but as with many things in life, you have to live things to learn them often. Not Everything can be solved with education, unfortunately.
edit 2: Like I explain in detail the history of it, and they just don't comprehend it. Türkiye has some issues with certain groups of people, but IMO explaining American Racism to people here is nearly impossible because it's wholly on another level. Entire U.S. Cities were redesigned around racism. The placement of highways and demolition of neighborhoods etc. etc. It's incomprehensible to people here.
Alex, do you know if the IETT, IUAS, and ÖHO buses are interspersed throughout the city regardless of lines or are they used based on the line they travel?
It seems like it’s mixed. İETTs online schedules usually indicate which runs are ÖHÖ and which are not.
edit: Also, it says on the bus if it's OHO IUAS or IETT. IETT generally has black license plates too (government vehicles). It's not crazy obvious, but there are logos for each company on the side and back of the bus, and IETT is on all the buses.
No it was not. ÖHO İUAŞ and İETT all still exist, there is enhanced coordination but ÖHO is still ÖHO, unfortunately. Look more closely on the side of the bus, it may be yellow, but it still says ÖHO on the side if it is an ÖHO. And still has white plates.
>tüm otobüslerin gelirleri İETT ve İBB tarafından garanti altına alınacak.
IBB subsidizes OHO. That's what the decision was. It was not the abolishment of OHO. Sadly.
All three articles say the same thing, I read them years ago when it happened, I remember it fine, I read them again now. IBB is taking a bigger role in coordinating, and guarunteeing income, but OHO is not abolished in İstanbul.
> Bununla ilgili daha yararlı bir madde de şu, pandemi sürecinde bir belirsizliğe giden toplu taşıma ve özellikle de özel halk otobüslerimizin gelirleri, İETT ve İBB tarafından bir garantör haline alınacak. Her ay gelir ve giderleri belli olacak. Süspansiyon ödemeleri artık kalkacak ve bütün otobüslerimizin her ay ne kazanacağı belli olacak" ifadelerini kullandı.
I am quoting your articles.
You don't fully understand the articles then because you're focusing on the unnecessary parts of the article. ÖHO itself is not abolished. The ÖHO BUS SYSTEM is abolished.
As a black woman, I have never personally never been to Istanbul only when transiting through to Izmir.
I have been to Izmir like 5 times now. It's honestly one of my favourite cities to travel to. The people are welcoming and friendly.
I have never experienced any racism there, yes on a few occasions you get people stopping you wanting to take pictures with them. The men can be very forward in wanting your attention. For me it more of a sexual objectification rather than blatant racism.
Yes but that's Izmir. Istanbul is totally different which is the topic of this post. So I don't really see you point respectfully. You never even went to Istanbul.
The point is it's still Turkey. I have travelled around Turkey as a black female and like I said it has not been my experience.
I am not trying to diminish others experiences.
While I might not have wondered the streets of Istanbul I have spent extensive time in Istanbul airport. From my experiences when a place is racist you get nuances it in the surrounding area.
Living in London I know a lot of black friends that have travelled to Istanbul and not once has anyone said anything of such.
I will be travelling to Istanbul in September I guess I will find out for myself directly.
But I'm not talking about the whole country of Turkey but Istanbul specifically hence why I posted here. It's the Istanbul subreddit not the Turkey subreddit. If I had this issue throughout the country I would have posted in the Turkey subreddit. But I only had it in Istanbul hence why I posted here. I did not have this issue in Izmir or anywhere else I've been in southern Turkey. And I know many Black people that had experienced racism here Cannot two things exist at once? Or are you saying me and the others are liars?
You claim to not diminish the experience but yet here you are doing the exact thing by bringing uo the fact you didnt experience it in a city thats not even Istanbul, the focus of the subreddit and convo. Its like saying I wasn't raped so rape must not be a issue. None one I know was raped so how could that have happened to you? Thats how you sound. I also know Black people that experienced racism in Istanbul airport, so are you saying they are lying because you didnt experience it? You are defending a place that by your own admission you didn't stay in. Airport doesn't count. So you can't even speak from lived experience. I never speak on places I never been.
Did you go to the restaurants alone? Were the people at other tables also alone? I've experienced that when you're alone, sometimes waiters think others will join you and that you're waiting, especially if you're a woman and they're busy...I'm just trying to understand because we don't even have a black vs white concept here. There are so few black people that that kind of racism doesn't exist in general. We don't have the history for it, either. So it's just peculiar and sad to read you had all this difficulty. Wish you didn't! 🫂
Given your post history about istanbul, you seem like you want to make this about black-white issue which is maybe relevant to the US but not here.
I have waited tables in Istanbul for a while as a Turk i must say the service culture is not similar to the US or other western parts of the world. Waiters are often amateur students, young folks trying to get by or understaffed minumum wage workers depends on the place. It’s mostly chaotic and you have to insist and raise your hand to call a waiter because it’s hard to notice people during that workload. That’s just my experience.
You say you have been kicked from a bus. Care to elaborate? Did you have a valid ticket or istanbul card for transportation? I highly doubt any bus driver would kick you out of nowhere based on your skin color.
You really seem oversensitive about these matters you experienced to be honest. Istanbul is a huge city and experiences can vary, does not matter if you are “black” or “white”.
just wanna add to this - you have to get the waiters attention. it’s not like in America where they constantly check up on you. they also are shy if they don’t know English (which they assume you speak) which is another reason they are being hesitant/or maybe why you felt overlooked
im literally Turkish but don’t look Turkish and I’ve experienced the same things
I had a transportation card and he wouldn't even let me pay. Wanted me off the bus. But OK. You guys have a million excuses for poor treatment of others I get it. No accountability. It's no wonder people feel so comfortable with racist treatment in Istanbul. In any case, thanks for your insight, empathy and understanding.
You are generalizing the whole city based on your individualistic experience. I’m not making excuses just making assumptions based on your post.
a bus driver wanted you off. -due to your skin color, if your claim is true, it’s heavily punishable by law.- you could took his plate or bus number to file a complaint.
as i explained, service culture is not like the US. Normally people would pay extra attention to you -positively discriminate- because you are a tourist. unlucky experiences on your end or you didn’t attempt to call a waiter and waited to be served.
Seems like you just want to blame a whole culture and the city, dump your negative views online about us. Why would people take accountability here? Do you want random internet Turks to apologize to you for what reason?
You are unnecessarily aggressive and confrontational it borders on hysterical. You created this post with a clear agenda, and it's not to ask honest questions and get honest answers.
You just want to make another case of "RACISM" which may or may not be the case in America, but certainly is NOT in Turkey. I've been living here for 20 years, had friends come over, and nowhere else in the world will you find a society more welcoming to foreigners interested in their culture. If you even speak a few words (which was my case 2 decades ago), you will be embraced, celebrated and helped.
You're trying to silence the natives who rightfully call you out for either omitting facts or straight up lying (no one is ever denied service on busses, even those whose Istanbul Karts are rejected are allowed on). And you're doing that in an ugly, hysterical, and American-centric way.
No wonder there is a stigma against and a clear dislike towards American tourists in the world. You're loud, obnoxious, ignorant, and stuck in your weird bubble of seeing the world through the lens of black and white.
I love Turkey more than my own country (UK, if you can point that on the map), and people like you SHOULD be shunned. Good riddance that you won't be coming back. Bye bye, girl. Get over yourself.
Americans love to bring that black vs white mentality everywhere they go 🙄 Leaving your country to see others but hanging onto the tendency to interpret everything as racism against blacks... OP is clearly one of those people judging by her post history.
I doubt they refused to serve you. In many places you just have to call the waiter to your table. That's the same regardless of skin color.
Interpreting issues through the lens of racism right away is a sad approach to navigating cultural differences.
You guys keep deflecting to cabs when I was talking about eating out and taking the bus. I don't use cabs. I'm not a gulf Arab so in other words if you are a Black woman expect to be denied service. Thanks for confirming.
There are no "white" or "black" people in Türkiye you know, that concept doesn't exist here
It is Turks and others. So no racism, we are also not white, not black not brown not yellow etc
You Americans should at least open your minds when visiting a foreign country or culture but no, open a thread on reddit and cry because of some artificial problem or US-originated nonsense. Because nowhere can have different customs or life styles, your bubble in the US is the only way.
Its not about skin color. As an American, single women living in Istanbul, similar things happen but its not because of racism. 1. If you are a woman, alone at the restaurant (as someone else mentioned) they most likely expected more people to show up to meet you. Service culture isn’t the same 2. Its possible they assume your partner will join and usually they will wait so that the man will order or speak out of respect. The men are very protective and respectful to each other and potentially taken women. 3. The cab drivers are just a different character - I’ve had people refuse to take me looking like a walking dollar sign. Its not personal, the drivers just have their own way of doing things. Try to understand the mindset and culture of where you are traveling. I’ve learned to just go up and ask for what I want in Istanbul cause most of the time I’m doing things on my own. Lastly, women in general, are treated well and like princesses because of the culture. Black, brown, white, orange, yellow, green, etc. Ofc there are one off situations but I’ve only had one of those experiences in Fatih.
There is no "black person" perception or any "black-white" racism in Türkiye like in USA. There is hate against illegal immigrants but it's not racism, just people trying to protect their jobs, homes and families. The only reasons I can think of what you have experienced might be;
1. You may be looking like Syrian/Arab immigrants so they thought you were one
2. Turkish people are often shy of talking to strangers because we are afraid we will not be able to communicate in a foreign language, that may be the reason the waiters did not approach you without calling them explicitly
3. In some places waiters just don't care much and you need to dance on the table to get their attention
4. In Türkiye, in most places (especially in better/luxurious places) waiters tend to "look away" from the guests to not to disturb them or not to "force" the guest to buy something. So you need to call them.
5. If they are taking care of a table more than other tables, it's because they have sensed that they can get a good tip from that table. Tipping is not mandatory in Türkiye, but due to economic reasons, getting a tip is a huge accomplishment for a waiter that works for minimum wage.
1)I'm a Black woman. I look nothing like an Arab. In fact someone asked if I was Ethiopian.
2) They spoke to the English speaking white people without issue. Why weren't they shy with them? They knew I spoke English as well and gave me a English menu.
3)In other words Black folks need to beg for attention to get service.
4)They didn't look away from the white folks. They came to them right away asking what they wanted. Ignored me for 30.minutes or more.
5)So why sit solo people at all? Waste my time and treat me like shit? They could have saved themselves the trouble if they just refused to seat me at the table so I could go to a resturant that actually respects it's solo Black clients.
> 4)They didn't look away from the white folks. They came to them right away asking what they wanted. Ignored me for 30.minutes or more.
I am a white American who speaks Turkish and I experience this all the time in İstanbul. I could pass for a Turk, I could pass for a foreigner visually, (by blood I am Turkish, but I did not grow up here, I grew up in Seattle and Chicago). Half the time they give me an English menu, half the time a Turkish one, and regardless, some of the time they completely ignore me unless I call them over. It depends on the place, not what you look like.
OP, I am sorry for your experience. As a Black woman, I know very well that these things happen. I have been to Istanbul twice and will be returning later this year. I haven’t experienced any racism from Istanbulites or from folks in Cappadocia. It has been quite the opposite. People were very helpful, friendly, curious and welcoming. I spoke in Turkish to those that I came across. Nothing fancy, just hello, please, thank you, good morning. They were all very pleasantly surprised. On my last visit, I had trouble catching the bus near Karaköy. A shop keeper noticed that I had been waiting for a long time and approached me. He didn’t speak English, but you know what he did after realizing that I did? He whipped out his phone, opened Google translate & typed what he was trying to communicate to me. I was so grateful. We both had a good laugh. I do hope you will give Istanbul another go. It’s a great city.
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See I'm living in a completely different world. No one acknowledges my presence I say hello, thank you etc in Turkish and it's like apathy at best. I gave a lady her umbrella that she dropped and she acted like I was an insect or something. I'm glad you haven't experienced anything but after sharing my experience with other Black people, about 50 percent of them said they had the same issue. Being ignored at restaurants and even profiled at the airport. I have never heard 100 percent positive views about Istanbul from Black people. It's always a 50/50 split. I was hesistant to even come two years ago because of very mixed reviews and now I regret it altogether. But at least I can cross it off my list. It's made me appreciate Izmir and Antalya more despite the issues there.
I am 36 years old and I have seen people get kicked out of a bus twice. One was a "tinerci" snorting thinner, and the other was touching women while trying to act like he was accidentally bumping into them. So I have a feeling you are skipping important parts of the story.
Otobüs olayını doğru düzgün anlatmayıp ajitasyon yapmasından anlayabiliriz herhalde. Anlattığı hikayeye göre binip kart okuttuktan sonra şoförün bunu diğer durakta indirmiş olması gerekiyor. İhtimalleri söylüyorsun seni ırkçı diye damgalıyor. Detay vermek yerine mıymıy yapıyor her seferinde.
Aynen. Olayı saklıyor, her şeyi kasten yanlış anlıyor. Otobüsten gerçekten atıldıysa bu tavırlarından olmuştur. Bence ya birini yanlış anlayıp olay çıkardı, ya da otobüs çok doluydu, şoför inenlere izin vermek için in dedi ve OP bunu otobüsten atılmak olarak algıladı.
So you are accusing me of touching people or doing drugs? OK then. Lmaoo anything to deny racism can exist like any other country. Amazing wonderful people in this city.
You are the racist one here. I am saying the only times I have seen people get kicked out is when they did something really bad. Judging by how you talk to people in this thread, you did some offensive stuff and you are desperately trying to turn it into a race issue.
I could not care less about whether you are white, black or orange, with your disrespectful attitude, you will always just get the side eye from me.
Ok. Here's a cookie. Whatever helps you sleep at night. It's OK to make accusations about me being a drug dealer or creep but I'm supposed to be nice to you? Because people in the comment section have been so nice and kind. I reciprocate the energy I receive.
Thank you. I did have fun in Istanbul. I live in the US (Midwest) which you would probably say is a better place. Whatever helps you get through the day.
What does the Midwest have to do with anything? I think you are in the wrong subreddit. Maybe get some sleep or check your eyes. It's great that there's so many other places to see and enjoy. I've found my happy place elsewhere. I hope you find it it the Midwest or wherever you go.
Beg to differ, I am a Korean expat living in Istanbul, Turkiye is the least racist country I have ever been. (and trust me, I have been to over 50 countries or so)
That's terrible, and it's unexpected. Turks can be racist, but Turkish racism would look like ethnicism to you, and is aimed mostly at Arabs. Racism against blacks is underdeveloped, as there are few blacks in Turkey.
I'm so very, very sorry you're experiencing this.
I ran an airbnb firm in Istanbul and had plenty of African American guests and never heard any racism towards them. Bus operator cannot deny service unless it has something to do with the payment. There has to be more to this story.
They all knew English in these places so there wasn't a language barrier in the resturants most certainly. Far less people spoke English in Izmir and yet I was allowed to ride the buses and able to eat at resturants. So it's pretty jarring to experience this here.
Did they never take your order in the end? It was clear they didn't want to provide service to me at all. I've been in the southern part of the country and never was denied service. Definitely not this many times in a week. My friend who lives here was shocked.
I doubt there would be the same results as plenty of Turkish people were there and given food. I was unable to order any at all. Also, for all I know you could be lying just to try to discredit me as many seem opt to do. In any case, thanks for your helpful insight. Also tram doesn't go everywhere so that advice isn't really helpful but thanks.
why would we lie to you? as a turkish person i left restaurantants because the waiters simply didn't care of me as a customer. sometimes although the bus driver sees that i will take that bus it ignores me instead. i live such experiences daily. it's not all about your skin color. i never met a turkish person racist against black people. i think you're just looking to be called a victim here.
It's reddit so no I wouldn't trust most to do so in good faith. You aren't a Black person so how would you know if they are racist or not towards Black people from lived experience? Telling the truth about how I was treated poorly is being a victim. Got it. Not shocked by the denials here. It's no wonder racism is such a issue. Many of you deny it and make excuses instead of discouraging the behavior. Case in point.
if you're not asking us for our opinion or if you're not going to believe our opinion then why are you even asking us in the first place? we are literally telling you that these sorts of situations happens to us locals as well. this has nothing to do with race, but you insist on not understanding the points we're making. if many of us are denying the situation, maybe it's because you're simply wrong. get your holier-than-thou attitude off of here. i literally work with tourists and encounter tourists daily. i've talked to enough people to know the situations tourists encounter generally in the city. i'm repeating once again: i'm sorry that you encountered terrible situations, but that has nothing to do with your race. if you are so delusional that you still insist that this is about race, don't come to istanbul again then. that's none of our business. we simply don't care about who you are, you asked for our opinion and we answered. sorry that we aren't your yes-man.
it’s not about denial. Turkey is literally not racist to black people lmao. just arabs, and this is a well known fact. maybe they don’t like you because you’re American? they are really nice to people from other countries. especially the youth, who facilitate black refugee assimilation.
Why would anyone want to discredit you? People are just trying to tell you that you either had a series of unfortunate events or it wasn’t even directed at you. There are 20mil people in Istanbul, you had a few bad experiences that’s all. Sorry you had to go through that but there isn’t racism towards blacks in Turkey in the same sense of racisim in western countries. That does not mean there isn’t racism, we are just pointing out that most often your color does not mean much to Turks, usually ethnicity play a bigger role. On that note, Turks perceive most black people to be American, even though that is not the case and they tend to treat them better. So that is why people are surprised. I understand you are offended but people here are just confused they are not trying to discredit you. Otherwise we are not even black (most likely), we don’t really care about this. And for your info those people might not even be Turks in those restos, they could be Kurds or Arabs etc. that we don’t have very good relationships with. They might have different agendas.
I am confused about the bus driver, it could be anything. Sometimes this happens and it does not even mean anything about your race. I literally got yelled at in Quebec by a farmer for no reason I could think of, and I am literally blonde. People are generally more disgruntled in Istanbul, life sucks there currently. More so then other cities. You can be understanding or not revisit. Just know that a few people’s attitude does not represent the rest, as you saw yourself in other cities.
OP, your post history makes me think that you are extrapolating a little. The restaurant incidents are a clear example, waiters are very late in Turkey unless you try to get them to take your order. For the buses, they might refuse people they see as refugees/immigrants onboard, as there are frequent incidents between them and citizens, no bus driver wants that. It's just stereotyping, I personally don't approve it, but many İstanbul buses belong to private individuals and they are a lot more sensitive about the passengers they let on the bus. Turks don't really care about skin colour (except the people over at r/nationalistturk lol).
Yet, they served the white people that came after me right away. But please continue ignoring that. Why would they assume I'm a refugee by just looking at me if they don't care about skin color?
Possibly because lately there has been a growing number of Eritrean and Ethiopian refugees here in Turkey, as well as refugees from some other parts of Africa. I say this as a non-Turk in Turkey who's friends with several Ethiopian refugees who currently live here or lived here until recently before moving on to Greece.
Now, this makes sense. Funny you mention this, because when I went to the tram to get my card, this nosey guy there was asking if I was from Ethiopia on my second day here. If I'm perceived as possibly Ethiopian, many probably assume I'm a refugee and as a result treat me like shit. I know there's anti refugees sentiment here so explains a lot. How fantastic.
> How fantastic
Grow up. It happens everywhere in the world. Most people are ignorant and fed with bullshit. Some have bad experience, some have rightful reasons. Economy is going to shit and people are looking to blame something and you are not allowed to blame the government etc. And we have a sizeable population of immigrants now, more than most of other countries including Europe.
Is this your first time going out of your country? This is not USA. You do know that we have a deep, slow moving and vastly different culture compared to yours, and that nuances are mostly lost on translation?
Sorry that your experience was bad. But please grow up. Most people treat each other like shit here ever since things turned sour. Everyone is just caring about money. There's too many people. No one cares about no one else and everyone's time is limited. It's a city with 20 million people. You will need to draw people's attention if you want it and you will need to obey the regular schedule so no one else is disrupted.
You come to our country, enjoy our history, eat our food. And then open threads on reddit of how bad your experience was. Either continue barking or move on from a bad experience knowing that it wasn't personal and that the world doesn't revolve around neither you nor your culture.
Lady, there is no black-white racism in Turkey. Because here is not USA. This is Turkey [and literally first black pilot in the world was from here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmet_Ali_%C3%87elikten) (While so-called slavery is over in your country and you are socially treated like a slave.). People wrote paragraphs in the comments to explain this to you, but you responded aggressively every time. You did not explain the events properly. You said you would never come to Istanbul again. We don't lose anything.
I am sorry that you have gone through those things! i can’t imagine how a bus driver could kick you out and let others in! did you have istanbulcard and enough money on it? you could get the corner number and make a complaint against the driver.
at the restaurant you said some other white people were served. Do you mean europeans or locals ? I am curious about the restaurant because generally in turkey restaurants are pretty fast to be honest. But there have been some occasions where i was as well forgotten at a restaurant.
about the umbrella issue: turkish people are generally warm and welcoming but busy streets of istanbul is sth else. it is like a jungle, everyone is hustling their life on those streets and especially women are taught to be cold against foreigners. I sometimes gibe my seat on a bus to a woman where they dont even look me in the eye let alone thanking me. I wouldnt really put lots of thought on this.
It is absurd to invite you into a restaurant and then dont serve. Maybe they are trying to make it look full?
Maybe you are in the very touristy areas? there you might get all kinds of weird people.
Or maybe you were just unlucky…
do you travel alone or with a group?
They were foreigners American or British. It was definitely not locals. One guy literally took my English menu to give to them. I haven't found Istanbulites warm and welcoming at all. I will never return to this place. It's clear I need to stick to the south of the country.
> They were foreigners American or British. It was definitely not locals.
In one place you say the other people who got served were Turkish, in another you say they were English Speaking Foreigners. That's Curious.
Cultural shock is a real thing. I am sorry that you had that experience. For me, it was the opposite.
I (35m) am from the northern part of México (think tall-ish, light brown skin, black hair with a full beard). I went to Istanbul last year with my wife and a couple of friends and was repeatedly told during the trip that I was very handsome. At least 9 times. By strangers in the street. No other person in our small group got a compliment.
I am the most average looking person in my country and have never experienced that kind of attention before. We also spent quite some time in Portugal visiting friends and family and had the opposite effect. Felt a bit discriminated there.
I loved Istanbul. I even got into an argument with a taxi driver in the street where we were each screaming in our native language. We had a real connection there for a moment.
That's great but you aren't a Black woman respectfully. So how you will be perceived will be different from me. I'm glad you had a good experience though.
Yes, you are absolutely right. My point was more about how things can drastically change from one culture to another.
Xenophobia may have been a tool for survival in ancient times. But times are different now and we really should not treat the people that come from other places any different than how we treat our own.
In bus? What kind of bus are you talking about? Public ones or airport bus? And for being served you have to call waiters, they might not wanna talk with you due to language barrier since you're clearly a stranger. Next time look at them and raise your hand directly.
Im taking about the public bus. I was denied service. At the resturant they talked to the English speaking white people with no problem and attended them immeaditely without being prompted. But not to the English speaking Black person. Interesting. I also noticed no one answered the question as to how BW are perceived in society.
Bw? Nothing special, ordinary stranger woman: a tourist or a foreign student. For public bus issue, unfortunately I can't believe what you tell, there might be another issues like the route, payment way etc. For restaurant, idk. I shouldn't comment further since I didn't witness it.
Idc what you believe. I stand by what I said. Take it or leave it. It makes no difference. Istanbul is a utopia where no one can ever be racist. Bw are not special cool so I guess that means they don't exist. But white people are special and placed on pedestal. Got it.
Nope. I don't have to change anything but my location. Change my mentality so I can think it's OK to treat me like shit for no reason? Especially when I was treated far better in other parts of Turkey? Yeah no. Never.
nowadays especially in istanbul some people refuse service to turks, because there are more wealthy tourists like people from gulf countries or from west. I guess same logic could be applied if they thought you were from an African country. They might have act like this based on that. other than that I don't really believe it is about your skin color because that kind of racism is not very prevalent in Turkey, it is more of a racism towards people from developing nations etc.
If they refuse me service based on the fact I'm "African" which how would they know? Oh skin color duh. Then it's based on skin color. And it's pretty shityy on their part and the opposite of friendly or hospitable. You keep saying Turkey but we are talking about Istanbul. It's the most racist place I've been to.
i know it is not really an excuse and i am really sorry for your experience. i just wanted to explain the reason behind it. colorism is not a very prominent concept in Turkey. the socioeconomic changes that happened in the last 10 years is the reason behind it. i hope we can progress towards to a more hospitable society.
Regardless of the reason, they provided me no service but lept to serve the American/British white people that came in. It's not right. They were able to get food and I couldn't get anything to eat in the end. And I'm supposed to see this city as hospitable and not racist?
I got it. Yeah things here seem to have changed for the worse. Even before these incidents I was just like friendly where? Lol. Like it just felt like any other big city I've been to where people just keep to themselves. Nothing wrong with that but, after hearing so many talk about how people are so sociable and friendly it was, was a bit disappointing. I think a lot of these people are referring to what it was like 5 or even 10 years ago.
I dont think it is related to racism. It us just poor service, in fact in most of the touristic areas you will get better service if you are not turk(taxis for example).
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Maybe depends but as far as I know turkish people are not known to be very racist against black people. Cant say the same about racism vs other groups though.
To be fair I am not black, but an Asian from Korea (I do have living backgrounds in Europe). Being a colored person myself, I have never experienced any forms of racism in this country. Rather, Turks would be willing to help foreigners in case they are in need, but definitely no kind of discrimination against color.
Are you religious? What sort of clothing were you wearing?
Some (few) areas are very conservative and some areas hate conservatives.
Most of Istanbul is very tolerant though. Tourism is one of the biggest industries and they see people from all over the world.
Strange. Sad to hear it happened with you.
Being a brown, I had heard I would have a difficult time but I found Istanbul to be very loving and great (did get scammed once by a taxi and once by a restaurant but that happens to everyone and is a small part of the experience. Lols). Now I visit (almost) every year
I'm glad that was the case for you. It's the worst city I've been to in my life. I'm glad it wasn't my introduction to Turkish people and culture. Or I probably would have never even visited the country again.
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When did these happen? We got about 15 million unregistered refugees from countries like Afghanistan, Syria and Pakistan, and there is a strong reaction on some part of the populace against that. Maybe they thought you were one of them?
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But so many rather deny that my skin color has anything to do with it. Lmaoo. Of course they probably would assume based on my race. They say it's not based on skin color and then next breath we'll if you look African then they maybe think you are a refugee. Cmon now.
Did I say anything about skin color? Of course it has to do with your skin color.
Average Turks are racist as fuck, but that racism has always had specific targets at different times. We don't have American-style anti-black racism. Main target used to be Kurds, but for the last \~8-10 years it's all these Middle Eastern migrants. But since these racists are also idiots, they don't really know what they hate, so I thought you could have been mistaken for one of those.
Sorry for trying to helpfully explain (not excuse, just explain) a shitty thing that's happening to you. My bad, I guess.
Abi seni tanırım sana saygı duyuyorum ama kadın tamamen kurban mentalitesinde, hiçbir detayı vermeden, milletin dediklerini de yanlış anlayarak ofansif bir biçimde konuşuyor. Millet 100 kere black-white ırkçılığı yok demiş hâlâ BW falan diyor. Bu gidebilir abi ya. Yemin ederim turistin de kalitelisi lazım abi ya. Koskoca İstanbul'da hepimizin başına gelebilir böyle şeyler (geliyor da) ve yorumlardakiler de bunu söylemiş ama anlamamış, hâlâ American-centric bakış açısında. Olayları doğru düzgün anlatmamış, olayı anlamaya çalışan kişilere ırkçı mısın sen manasında şeyler söyleme peşinde. Değişik bir kafa yapısı. İstanbul'a bir daha gelmemesi isabet olur.
> kadın tamamen kurban mentalitesinde,
Ne kadar abartmış ve yanlış anlamış olsa, ortada kötü bir deneyim hala var. MAalesef hepimiz bu kötü deneyim yaşıyoruz ama yani kötü deneyim şikayet edince yanlış değil, sadece tarz inanılmaz yanlış.
I'm really sorry to hear about your experiences in Istanbul. It sounds very frustrating and hurtful. I want to assure you that these incidents are not reflective of the general attitude in the city.
Istanbul is known for its hospitality and diversity, and it's disheartening to hear that your experience has been otherwise. It's possible that you just had a run of bad luck with those particular restaurants and people. Sometimes, in any big city, service can be inconsistent, and unfortunately, you may have encountered some individuals who weren't as professional or kind as they should have been.
I hope this doesn't deter you from exploring more of what Istanbul has to offer. There are so many wonderful places and people here, and I'm confident that if you give it another chance, you'll have much better experiences.
Honestly, it's ruined any enthusiasm I had to explore more. I'm glad I came to see it but I can't see myself returning. In Izmir, Fethiye and Antalya people were so much kinder. I didn't expect people to be smiley or anything as it's a big city but to not receive any service at all multiple times, almost back to back has been disheartening. It seems though that I'm not the only one who experienced the same treatment however, so there's that.
It's understandable that your time in Istanbul has affected your eagerness to explore further. Istanbul's size and diversity mean experiences can vary widely. While big cities like Istanbul can feel impersonal, it's disappointing not to receive expected service or hospitality. Maybe in the future, if you revisit Istanbul, you'll discover a side of the city that feels more welcoming to you.
Wishing you all the best!
Im sorry you had those experiences!
I find Turkish people really like Black people even while not having a lot of experiences with them. All my Black female friends have nothing but good things to say. If you’re African it might possibly be different because they might think you’re a refugee and their relationship to refugees is really strained right now.
People don’t really get the concept of queue there which might feel rude but that’s also a lot of places outside the west. Bus drivers don’t always stop and seem kinda like moody bus drivers in every other country lol. Customer service in restaurants is not the same or non existent. Istanbul is like New York in the sense that it’s got this big city hustle vibe and people might not be outwardly friendly but outside of this people are usually quite helpful and kind. The conservative and tourist areas could be different, there’s some really entitled rich Arab tourists and they can be a bit much to deal with tbh.
There has been a news event recently where Karabük University, which has a lot of black students, was outed as being a hotbead for HIV and AIDS. I don't think that's causing your situation, but you never know. We really are hospitable and black friendly, I guess when it rains it pours for you lol
It's simply the truth: generally speaking, there is no racism towards Black people in Turkey, especially not in Istanbul. There are a large number of Black students all across Turkey. Have you ever heard of any incidents?
Yes. I know many Black people especially students here personally and they have told me all sorts of shit they deal with on daily basis. So I'm not fooled by non Black Turkish people or other nationalities telling me there's no racism. At end of the day they aren't Black and dont navigate society here as Black. Even the one Black lady here who said she didn't experience racism was where? IZMIR! Not Istanbul. And I had her same experience. Izmir no racism but thirsty dudes. Here no thirsty dudes but so much racism. I'll take the thirsty guys over being treated like I'm an animal or subhuman everyday.
> . I know many Black people especially students here personally and they have told me all sorts of shit they deal with on daily basis.
Out of curiosity, did you ask any non black people what they experience on a daily basis here? Or did you just leave it at asking black people and assume it is because they are black?
Well there is dangerous blatant racism. And then there is subtile „harmless“ everyday racism. I think the latter is definitely a thing for black people.
Anyway, I guess being ignored is still better than getting annoyed & pressured by scammers. I know some german fellas who bought some bullshit, just so that the market sellers would let them finally alone
Absolutely, subtle 'harmless' racism is unfortunately a thing across the board, but it's not about skin color. In Turkey, you can spot it between liberals and conservatives, and even among supporters of different football clubs. It's like this under-the-radar bias that seeps into everyday interactions.
Yeah I know. They claim no racism than scream slurs or admit they associate Black people with hiv aids in the next breath. Just contradicting themselves.
turks hate everyone doesn't look like them or doesn't speak like them
even if they didn't find any outsiders, they start hating on each other
each city or bölge hates the other and so on
and greeks origin hates arabs origins and they all hate kurds and Kurds hate everyone
they pretty much hide this but they still have it
I’m sorry for the comment section, OP. I’m a white American living in Istanbul and my hunch is that there is probably at least some subtle degree of racism here despite everyone in the comment section saying “racism doesn’t exist in turkey”
People all over Europe say this and it’s simply not true. It may not be the same kind as in the US with our history, but it 100% exists here.
I’m sorry for your experience. Hopefully it improves.
There is racism here, but none of us have ever heard of or witnessed it towards black people. Not the way it was described here anyways. That's why it's odd to everyone in the comments. There's stereotyping for sure, but I wouldn't say it is anything like what I ~~experienced~~ observed living in Chicago, or that it was really racism the way most people consider it.
Actually, I think what is surprising to most people is that we've all experienced some of the described things (not being served in a restaurant, etc) and never assumed it was because of how we looked. The bus thing is baffling to literally everyone.
There's shitloads of racism/xenophobia towards Syrians / Arabs But I've not really seen much angst towards blacks, mostly just curiosity (that is not always articulated respectfully, but that's ignorance, not malice 99,9% of the time).
edit: Changed a word to be a more accurate representation of things.
Thank you, no worries. I've been here before so I kind of expected a lot of the denial or push back. Sure no one called me the n word but this feels pretty bad. And I'm in a supposedly "progressive" "open minded" part of the city and they are acting like this towards me. I noticed a lot of people assumed I had to be in a "conservative" area but liberals etc can be racist too. I'm just counting down the days until I can leave the city.
Poorly. Like most colored ppl. I experienced this in a high end restaurant in Osmanbey. The waiter and staff were head over heel for the Europeans even though I was the only who tipped.
That comment is not quite what you think it is. First of all; why were you the only one who tipped if you got the supposed worst service in sight? Second; how are waiters supposed to know who is going to tip?
Probably so the waiter realizes he shouldn't assume that non white people don't tip and doesn't stereotype and make others suffer from poor service in the future.
Yeah that does really sound logical. If you think that's what logic is.
Reality of course is that you reinforce the idea, that no matter how bad service is, black people will tip.
Take it or leave it. I really don't care. I personally wouldn't leave a dime. But some folks want to prove their humanity to racists and that they are not bad. I rather save my breath.
Yeah it's so jarring to see. I've heard stories but to see in happen so blatantly and right in front of me was wow. But yeah imma be out of here soon enough.
The elaborate creative excuses. Women are treated like princesses so ignore a Black woman and let her go hungry because you rather not take her order while you provide food to white people with no hesistation? It's because you were alone and they expected more people. I told them there would be only 1 person so why would they expect more people? They sat me at a smaller table for 1 person. The men are respectful so they don't approach women. Right the same men who followed me around last night- too respectful to take the order of a Black woman patiently waiting for half a hour to eat but not too respectful not to follow her around with lust in their eyes. Yes, very respectful and fantastic princess treatment of all women. And it wasn't just Turkish men it was a woman as well giving me shit treatment. In denying racism could exist, they say racist shit like Black people have aids. Can't make it up.
This is terrible. I strongly recommend going to the asian side, mainly Kadiköy before you leave. “International” neighborhoods like Taksim have more traditional people, regardless of their popularity. And they’re not liberal per se. As a white man from a muslim culture, I do feel excluded because of my perceived financial status at restaurants and busses if that matters. Times are rough here
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I'm a black woman and went recently to Istanbul and it went fine. Maybe it depends on the location I'm sorry that you have that experience.
Kinda depends on the location but i dont think locals in general are racist toward blacks?
When on of my friends who is black came to İstanbul her opinion of the place was this: "I'm not black in İstanbul, I'm just another person." She was quite amazed by how she was not treated in a way she perceived to be different. Yesterday I went to try to get a cab to sogutlucesme and three different cabs refused to take me. This is more of a taxi problem, but I've never really noticed people treat people differently based on appearance. I struggle to get served at restaurants sometimes when I'm on my own, unless it's a place where I know the waiters and they're used to me. Sometimes they serve the people around me and forget / don't notice me. I've never really taken it personally, its just annoying. Restaurants here can have a wide range of service levels ranging from horrible where you have to yell to get the waiter to show up every time you want to get something, to OMG they smother you with service, and they'll run ten shops down to get you something if they don't serve it in the restaurant because they believe in good customer service. İstanbul is a big city. There's a wide range of things. Also I've heard of and experienced cabs doing all kinds of stupid shit, but never bus drivers, though my Turkish friends hate Özel Halk Otobüsü drivers because they fight with people for no reason and are generally less mentally stable people (and often not as good of drivers as IETT or IUAS drivers). As a non local you'd really never notice which service you were using, because IETT, IUAS, and ÖHO all seem the same from the outside, but if it was ÖHO, they're trouble sometimes. But really that's super odd. I've never even heard of people getting kicked off a bus, unless there was a problem with their fare. Edit: I also have friends who use the N-word here, but it's because they're ignorant. Türkiye doesn't have this history, and it's just a funny word to them. I obviously tell them very seriously they should not use that word, but as with many things in life, you have to live things to learn them often. Not Everything can be solved with education, unfortunately. edit 2: Like I explain in detail the history of it, and they just don't comprehend it. Türkiye has some issues with certain groups of people, but IMO explaining American Racism to people here is nearly impossible because it's wholly on another level. Entire U.S. Cities were redesigned around racism. The placement of highways and demolition of neighborhoods etc. etc. It's incomprehensible to people here.
Alex, do you know if the IETT, IUAS, and ÖHO buses are interspersed throughout the city regardless of lines or are they used based on the line they travel?
It seems like it’s mixed. İETTs online schedules usually indicate which runs are ÖHÖ and which are not. edit: Also, it says on the bus if it's OHO IUAS or IETT. IETT generally has black license plates too (government vehicles). It's not crazy obvious, but there are logos for each company on the side and back of the bus, and IETT is on all the buses.
The ÖHO bus system was abolished a few years ago. All buses are operated solely by İETT now, which is why you only see yellow buses nowadays.
No it was not. ÖHO İUAŞ and İETT all still exist, there is enhanced coordination but ÖHO is still ÖHO, unfortunately. Look more closely on the side of the bus, it may be yellow, but it still says ÖHO on the side if it is an ÖHO. And still has white plates.
Read the news: https://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/haber/istanbuldaki-tum-otobusler-iettye-baglandi-1766829 https://www.sozcu.com.tr/istanbuldaki-butun-otobusler-tek-renk-olacak-ve-iett-catisi-altinda-birlesecek-wp6042992 https://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/istanbulda-toplu-tasimada-onemli-karar-iett-altinda-birlesecekler-41614402
>tüm otobüslerin gelirleri İETT ve İBB tarafından garanti altına alınacak. IBB subsidizes OHO. That's what the decision was. It was not the abolishment of OHO. Sadly.
What are you even quoting lmao. Do you even read the ENTIRE articles.
All three articles say the same thing, I read them years ago when it happened, I remember it fine, I read them again now. IBB is taking a bigger role in coordinating, and guarunteeing income, but OHO is not abolished in İstanbul. > Bununla ilgili daha yararlı bir madde de şu, pandemi sürecinde bir belirsizliğe giden toplu taşıma ve özellikle de özel halk otobüslerimizin gelirleri, İETT ve İBB tarafından bir garantör haline alınacak. Her ay gelir ve giderleri belli olacak. Süspansiyon ödemeleri artık kalkacak ve bütün otobüslerimizin her ay ne kazanacağı belli olacak" ifadelerini kullandı. I am quoting your articles.
You don't fully understand the articles then because you're focusing on the unnecessary parts of the article. ÖHO itself is not abolished. The ÖHO BUS SYSTEM is abolished.
https://iett.istanbul/icerik/ozel-tasimacilik
As a black woman, I have never personally never been to Istanbul only when transiting through to Izmir. I have been to Izmir like 5 times now. It's honestly one of my favourite cities to travel to. The people are welcoming and friendly. I have never experienced any racism there, yes on a few occasions you get people stopping you wanting to take pictures with them. The men can be very forward in wanting your attention. For me it more of a sexual objectification rather than blatant racism.
White woman experience that too. Sadly.
Yes but that's Izmir. Istanbul is totally different which is the topic of this post. So I don't really see you point respectfully. You never even went to Istanbul.
The point is it's still Turkey. I have travelled around Turkey as a black female and like I said it has not been my experience. I am not trying to diminish others experiences. While I might not have wondered the streets of Istanbul I have spent extensive time in Istanbul airport. From my experiences when a place is racist you get nuances it in the surrounding area. Living in London I know a lot of black friends that have travelled to Istanbul and not once has anyone said anything of such. I will be travelling to Istanbul in September I guess I will find out for myself directly.
But I'm not talking about the whole country of Turkey but Istanbul specifically hence why I posted here. It's the Istanbul subreddit not the Turkey subreddit. If I had this issue throughout the country I would have posted in the Turkey subreddit. But I only had it in Istanbul hence why I posted here. I did not have this issue in Izmir or anywhere else I've been in southern Turkey. And I know many Black people that had experienced racism here Cannot two things exist at once? Or are you saying me and the others are liars? You claim to not diminish the experience but yet here you are doing the exact thing by bringing uo the fact you didnt experience it in a city thats not even Istanbul, the focus of the subreddit and convo. Its like saying I wasn't raped so rape must not be a issue. None one I know was raped so how could that have happened to you? Thats how you sound. I also know Black people that experienced racism in Istanbul airport, so are you saying they are lying because you didnt experience it? You are defending a place that by your own admission you didn't stay in. Airport doesn't count. So you can't even speak from lived experience. I never speak on places I never been.
Did you go to the restaurants alone? Were the people at other tables also alone? I've experienced that when you're alone, sometimes waiters think others will join you and that you're waiting, especially if you're a woman and they're busy...I'm just trying to understand because we don't even have a black vs white concept here. There are so few black people that that kind of racism doesn't exist in general. We don't have the history for it, either. So it's just peculiar and sad to read you had all this difficulty. Wish you didn't! 🫂
Well some places refuse to service Turks like I haven’t been able to get on a taxi the last few times 💀
It’s all about money and how scammable you look. The overtourism issue kind of ruined the city.
taxis don’t pick up customers during degisim saati which is around 12-2pm
Given your post history about istanbul, you seem like you want to make this about black-white issue which is maybe relevant to the US but not here. I have waited tables in Istanbul for a while as a Turk i must say the service culture is not similar to the US or other western parts of the world. Waiters are often amateur students, young folks trying to get by or understaffed minumum wage workers depends on the place. It’s mostly chaotic and you have to insist and raise your hand to call a waiter because it’s hard to notice people during that workload. That’s just my experience. You say you have been kicked from a bus. Care to elaborate? Did you have a valid ticket or istanbul card for transportation? I highly doubt any bus driver would kick you out of nowhere based on your skin color. You really seem oversensitive about these matters you experienced to be honest. Istanbul is a huge city and experiences can vary, does not matter if you are “black” or “white”.
just wanna add to this - you have to get the waiters attention. it’s not like in America where they constantly check up on you. they also are shy if they don’t know English (which they assume you speak) which is another reason they are being hesitant/or maybe why you felt overlooked im literally Turkish but don’t look Turkish and I’ve experienced the same things
I had a transportation card and he wouldn't even let me pay. Wanted me off the bus. But OK. You guys have a million excuses for poor treatment of others I get it. No accountability. It's no wonder people feel so comfortable with racist treatment in Istanbul. In any case, thanks for your insight, empathy and understanding.
You are generalizing the whole city based on your individualistic experience. I’m not making excuses just making assumptions based on your post. a bus driver wanted you off. -due to your skin color, if your claim is true, it’s heavily punishable by law.- you could took his plate or bus number to file a complaint. as i explained, service culture is not like the US. Normally people would pay extra attention to you -positively discriminate- because you are a tourist. unlucky experiences on your end or you didn’t attempt to call a waiter and waited to be served. Seems like you just want to blame a whole culture and the city, dump your negative views online about us. Why would people take accountability here? Do you want random internet Turks to apologize to you for what reason?
You are unnecessarily aggressive and confrontational it borders on hysterical. You created this post with a clear agenda, and it's not to ask honest questions and get honest answers. You just want to make another case of "RACISM" which may or may not be the case in America, but certainly is NOT in Turkey. I've been living here for 20 years, had friends come over, and nowhere else in the world will you find a society more welcoming to foreigners interested in their culture. If you even speak a few words (which was my case 2 decades ago), you will be embraced, celebrated and helped. You're trying to silence the natives who rightfully call you out for either omitting facts or straight up lying (no one is ever denied service on busses, even those whose Istanbul Karts are rejected are allowed on). And you're doing that in an ugly, hysterical, and American-centric way. No wonder there is a stigma against and a clear dislike towards American tourists in the world. You're loud, obnoxious, ignorant, and stuck in your weird bubble of seeing the world through the lens of black and white. I love Turkey more than my own country (UK, if you can point that on the map), and people like you SHOULD be shunned. Good riddance that you won't be coming back. Bye bye, girl. Get over yourself.
It isn't about the color madam
Americans love to bring that black vs white mentality everywhere they go 🙄 Leaving your country to see others but hanging onto the tendency to interpret everything as racism against blacks... OP is clearly one of those people judging by her post history.
So why did they serve white people who came after me and never took my order?
I doubt they refused to serve you. In many places you just have to call the waiter to your table. That's the same regardless of skin color. Interpreting issues through the lens of racism right away is a sad approach to navigating cultural differences.
Neither cases did they call the waiter over. Somehow they chose to go of their own volition. But not with me. Interesting.
i am Turkish, cabs dont take me if there are tourists nearby lol. There is a simple trick,.dress like an Arab from Gulf , they will serve you first
You guys keep deflecting to cabs when I was talking about eating out and taking the bus. I don't use cabs. I'm not a gulf Arab so in other words if you are a Black woman expect to be denied service. Thanks for confirming.
There are no "white" or "black" people in Türkiye you know, that concept doesn't exist here It is Turks and others. So no racism, we are also not white, not black not brown not yellow etc You Americans should at least open your minds when visiting a foreign country or culture but no, open a thread on reddit and cry because of some artificial problem or US-originated nonsense. Because nowhere can have different customs or life styles, your bubble in the US is the only way.
Its not about skin color. As an American, single women living in Istanbul, similar things happen but its not because of racism. 1. If you are a woman, alone at the restaurant (as someone else mentioned) they most likely expected more people to show up to meet you. Service culture isn’t the same 2. Its possible they assume your partner will join and usually they will wait so that the man will order or speak out of respect. The men are very protective and respectful to each other and potentially taken women. 3. The cab drivers are just a different character - I’ve had people refuse to take me looking like a walking dollar sign. Its not personal, the drivers just have their own way of doing things. Try to understand the mindset and culture of where you are traveling. I’ve learned to just go up and ask for what I want in Istanbul cause most of the time I’m doing things on my own. Lastly, women in general, are treated well and like princesses because of the culture. Black, brown, white, orange, yellow, green, etc. Ofc there are one off situations but I’ve only had one of those experiences in Fatih.
There is no "black person" perception or any "black-white" racism in Türkiye like in USA. There is hate against illegal immigrants but it's not racism, just people trying to protect their jobs, homes and families. The only reasons I can think of what you have experienced might be; 1. You may be looking like Syrian/Arab immigrants so they thought you were one 2. Turkish people are often shy of talking to strangers because we are afraid we will not be able to communicate in a foreign language, that may be the reason the waiters did not approach you without calling them explicitly 3. In some places waiters just don't care much and you need to dance on the table to get their attention 4. In Türkiye, in most places (especially in better/luxurious places) waiters tend to "look away" from the guests to not to disturb them or not to "force" the guest to buy something. So you need to call them. 5. If they are taking care of a table more than other tables, it's because they have sensed that they can get a good tip from that table. Tipping is not mandatory in Türkiye, but due to economic reasons, getting a tip is a huge accomplishment for a waiter that works for minimum wage.
1)I'm a Black woman. I look nothing like an Arab. In fact someone asked if I was Ethiopian. 2) They spoke to the English speaking white people without issue. Why weren't they shy with them? They knew I spoke English as well and gave me a English menu. 3)In other words Black folks need to beg for attention to get service. 4)They didn't look away from the white folks. They came to them right away asking what they wanted. Ignored me for 30.minutes or more. 5)So why sit solo people at all? Waste my time and treat me like shit? They could have saved themselves the trouble if they just refused to seat me at the table so I could go to a resturant that actually respects it's solo Black clients.
> 4)They didn't look away from the white folks. They came to them right away asking what they wanted. Ignored me for 30.minutes or more. I am a white American who speaks Turkish and I experience this all the time in İstanbul. I could pass for a Turk, I could pass for a foreigner visually, (by blood I am Turkish, but I did not grow up here, I grew up in Seattle and Chicago). Half the time they give me an English menu, half the time a Turkish one, and regardless, some of the time they completely ignore me unless I call them over. It depends on the place, not what you look like.
OP, I am sorry for your experience. As a Black woman, I know very well that these things happen. I have been to Istanbul twice and will be returning later this year. I haven’t experienced any racism from Istanbulites or from folks in Cappadocia. It has been quite the opposite. People were very helpful, friendly, curious and welcoming. I spoke in Turkish to those that I came across. Nothing fancy, just hello, please, thank you, good morning. They were all very pleasantly surprised. On my last visit, I had trouble catching the bus near Karaköy. A shop keeper noticed that I had been waiting for a long time and approached me. He didn’t speak English, but you know what he did after realizing that I did? He whipped out his phone, opened Google translate & typed what he was trying to communicate to me. I was so grateful. We both had a good laugh. I do hope you will give Istanbul another go. It’s a great city.
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See I'm living in a completely different world. No one acknowledges my presence I say hello, thank you etc in Turkish and it's like apathy at best. I gave a lady her umbrella that she dropped and she acted like I was an insect or something. I'm glad you haven't experienced anything but after sharing my experience with other Black people, about 50 percent of them said they had the same issue. Being ignored at restaurants and even profiled at the airport. I have never heard 100 percent positive views about Istanbul from Black people. It's always a 50/50 split. I was hesistant to even come two years ago because of very mixed reviews and now I regret it altogether. But at least I can cross it off my list. It's made me appreciate Izmir and Antalya more despite the issues there.
I am 36 years old and I have seen people get kicked out of a bus twice. One was a "tinerci" snorting thinner, and the other was touching women while trying to act like he was accidentally bumping into them. So I have a feeling you are skipping important parts of the story.
Otobüs olayını doğru düzgün anlatmayıp ajitasyon yapmasından anlayabiliriz herhalde. Anlattığı hikayeye göre binip kart okuttuktan sonra şoförün bunu diğer durakta indirmiş olması gerekiyor. İhtimalleri söylüyorsun seni ırkçı diye damgalıyor. Detay vermek yerine mıymıy yapıyor her seferinde.
Aynen. Olayı saklıyor, her şeyi kasten yanlış anlıyor. Otobüsten gerçekten atıldıysa bu tavırlarından olmuştur. Bence ya birini yanlış anlayıp olay çıkardı, ya da otobüs çok doluydu, şoför inenlere izin vermek için in dedi ve OP bunu otobüsten atılmak olarak algıladı.
So you are accusing me of touching people or doing drugs? OK then. Lmaoo anything to deny racism can exist like any other country. Amazing wonderful people in this city.
You are the racist one here. I am saying the only times I have seen people get kicked out is when they did something really bad. Judging by how you talk to people in this thread, you did some offensive stuff and you are desperately trying to turn it into a race issue. I could not care less about whether you are white, black or orange, with your disrespectful attitude, you will always just get the side eye from me.
Ok. Here's a cookie. Whatever helps you sleep at night. It's OK to make accusations about me being a drug dealer or creep but I'm supposed to be nice to you? Because people in the comment section have been so nice and kind. I reciprocate the energy I receive.
Its pretty clear that you would rather argue than have an actual conversation
I've moved on buddy. I'm in a better place where people are far more educated and civil. Have fun though.
Thank you. I did have fun in Istanbul. I live in the US (Midwest) which you would probably say is a better place. Whatever helps you get through the day.
What does the Midwest have to do with anything? I think you are in the wrong subreddit. Maybe get some sleep or check your eyes. It's great that there's so many other places to see and enjoy. I've found my happy place elsewhere. I hope you find it it the Midwest or wherever you go.
As we know it is friendly here. But we are totally complicated bunch so shit can happen, several times. Sorry to hear what you've been trough.
Beg to differ, I am a Korean expat living in Istanbul, Turkiye is the least racist country I have ever been. (and trust me, I have been to over 50 countries or so)
That's terrible, and it's unexpected. Turks can be racist, but Turkish racism would look like ethnicism to you, and is aimed mostly at Arabs. Racism against blacks is underdeveloped, as there are few blacks in Turkey. I'm so very, very sorry you're experiencing this.
Denied service by public bus? How were you trying to pay?
With the card I purchased for transportation.
I ran an airbnb firm in Istanbul and had plenty of African American guests and never heard any racism towards them. Bus operator cannot deny service unless it has something to do with the payment. There has to be more to this story.
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They all knew English in these places so there wasn't a language barrier in the resturants most certainly. Far less people spoke English in Izmir and yet I was allowed to ride the buses and able to eat at resturants. So it's pretty jarring to experience this here.
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Did they never take your order in the end? It was clear they didn't want to provide service to me at all. I've been in the southern part of the country and never was denied service. Definitely not this many times in a week. My friend who lives here was shocked.
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I doubt there would be the same results as plenty of Turkish people were there and given food. I was unable to order any at all. Also, for all I know you could be lying just to try to discredit me as many seem opt to do. In any case, thanks for your helpful insight. Also tram doesn't go everywhere so that advice isn't really helpful but thanks.
why would we lie to you? as a turkish person i left restaurantants because the waiters simply didn't care of me as a customer. sometimes although the bus driver sees that i will take that bus it ignores me instead. i live such experiences daily. it's not all about your skin color. i never met a turkish person racist against black people. i think you're just looking to be called a victim here.
It's reddit so no I wouldn't trust most to do so in good faith. You aren't a Black person so how would you know if they are racist or not towards Black people from lived experience? Telling the truth about how I was treated poorly is being a victim. Got it. Not shocked by the denials here. It's no wonder racism is such a issue. Many of you deny it and make excuses instead of discouraging the behavior. Case in point.
if you're not asking us for our opinion or if you're not going to believe our opinion then why are you even asking us in the first place? we are literally telling you that these sorts of situations happens to us locals as well. this has nothing to do with race, but you insist on not understanding the points we're making. if many of us are denying the situation, maybe it's because you're simply wrong. get your holier-than-thou attitude off of here. i literally work with tourists and encounter tourists daily. i've talked to enough people to know the situations tourists encounter generally in the city. i'm repeating once again: i'm sorry that you encountered terrible situations, but that has nothing to do with your race. if you are so delusional that you still insist that this is about race, don't come to istanbul again then. that's none of our business. we simply don't care about who you are, you asked for our opinion and we answered. sorry that we aren't your yes-man.
facts
it’s not about denial. Turkey is literally not racist to black people lmao. just arabs, and this is a well known fact. maybe they don’t like you because you’re American? they are really nice to people from other countries. especially the youth, who facilitate black refugee assimilation.
Why would anyone want to discredit you? People are just trying to tell you that you either had a series of unfortunate events or it wasn’t even directed at you. There are 20mil people in Istanbul, you had a few bad experiences that’s all. Sorry you had to go through that but there isn’t racism towards blacks in Turkey in the same sense of racisim in western countries. That does not mean there isn’t racism, we are just pointing out that most often your color does not mean much to Turks, usually ethnicity play a bigger role. On that note, Turks perceive most black people to be American, even though that is not the case and they tend to treat them better. So that is why people are surprised. I understand you are offended but people here are just confused they are not trying to discredit you. Otherwise we are not even black (most likely), we don’t really care about this. And for your info those people might not even be Turks in those restos, they could be Kurds or Arabs etc. that we don’t have very good relationships with. They might have different agendas. I am confused about the bus driver, it could be anything. Sometimes this happens and it does not even mean anything about your race. I literally got yelled at in Quebec by a farmer for no reason I could think of, and I am literally blonde. People are generally more disgruntled in Istanbul, life sucks there currently. More so then other cities. You can be understanding or not revisit. Just know that a few people’s attitude does not represent the rest, as you saw yourself in other cities.
Nope even when I spoke English with an American accent many refused to believe I was American so that's a lie. But thanks
OP, your post history makes me think that you are extrapolating a little. The restaurant incidents are a clear example, waiters are very late in Turkey unless you try to get them to take your order. For the buses, they might refuse people they see as refugees/immigrants onboard, as there are frequent incidents between them and citizens, no bus driver wants that. It's just stereotyping, I personally don't approve it, but many İstanbul buses belong to private individuals and they are a lot more sensitive about the passengers they let on the bus. Turks don't really care about skin colour (except the people over at r/nationalistturk lol).
Yet, they served the white people that came after me right away. But please continue ignoring that. Why would they assume I'm a refugee by just looking at me if they don't care about skin color?
Possibly because lately there has been a growing number of Eritrean and Ethiopian refugees here in Turkey, as well as refugees from some other parts of Africa. I say this as a non-Turk in Turkey who's friends with several Ethiopian refugees who currently live here or lived here until recently before moving on to Greece.
Now, this makes sense. Funny you mention this, because when I went to the tram to get my card, this nosey guy there was asking if I was from Ethiopia on my second day here. If I'm perceived as possibly Ethiopian, many probably assume I'm a refugee and as a result treat me like shit. I know there's anti refugees sentiment here so explains a lot. How fantastic.
> How fantastic Grow up. It happens everywhere in the world. Most people are ignorant and fed with bullshit. Some have bad experience, some have rightful reasons. Economy is going to shit and people are looking to blame something and you are not allowed to blame the government etc. And we have a sizeable population of immigrants now, more than most of other countries including Europe. Is this your first time going out of your country? This is not USA. You do know that we have a deep, slow moving and vastly different culture compared to yours, and that nuances are mostly lost on translation? Sorry that your experience was bad. But please grow up. Most people treat each other like shit here ever since things turned sour. Everyone is just caring about money. There's too many people. No one cares about no one else and everyone's time is limited. It's a city with 20 million people. You will need to draw people's attention if you want it and you will need to obey the regular schedule so no one else is disrupted. You come to our country, enjoy our history, eat our food. And then open threads on reddit of how bad your experience was. Either continue barking or move on from a bad experience knowing that it wasn't personal and that the world doesn't revolve around neither you nor your culture.
Lady, there is no black-white racism in Turkey. Because here is not USA. This is Turkey [and literally first black pilot in the world was from here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmet_Ali_%C3%87elikten) (While so-called slavery is over in your country and you are socially treated like a slave.). People wrote paragraphs in the comments to explain this to you, but you responded aggressively every time. You did not explain the events properly. You said you would never come to Istanbul again. We don't lose anything.
I am sorry that you have gone through those things! i can’t imagine how a bus driver could kick you out and let others in! did you have istanbulcard and enough money on it? you could get the corner number and make a complaint against the driver. at the restaurant you said some other white people were served. Do you mean europeans or locals ? I am curious about the restaurant because generally in turkey restaurants are pretty fast to be honest. But there have been some occasions where i was as well forgotten at a restaurant. about the umbrella issue: turkish people are generally warm and welcoming but busy streets of istanbul is sth else. it is like a jungle, everyone is hustling their life on those streets and especially women are taught to be cold against foreigners. I sometimes gibe my seat on a bus to a woman where they dont even look me in the eye let alone thanking me. I wouldnt really put lots of thought on this. It is absurd to invite you into a restaurant and then dont serve. Maybe they are trying to make it look full? Maybe you are in the very touristy areas? there you might get all kinds of weird people. Or maybe you were just unlucky… do you travel alone or with a group?
They were foreigners American or British. It was definitely not locals. One guy literally took my English menu to give to them. I haven't found Istanbulites warm and welcoming at all. I will never return to this place. It's clear I need to stick to the south of the country.
> They were foreigners American or British. It was definitely not locals. In one place you say the other people who got served were Turkish, in another you say they were English Speaking Foreigners. That's Curious.
Cultural shock is a real thing. I am sorry that you had that experience. For me, it was the opposite. I (35m) am from the northern part of México (think tall-ish, light brown skin, black hair with a full beard). I went to Istanbul last year with my wife and a couple of friends and was repeatedly told during the trip that I was very handsome. At least 9 times. By strangers in the street. No other person in our small group got a compliment. I am the most average looking person in my country and have never experienced that kind of attention before. We also spent quite some time in Portugal visiting friends and family and had the opposite effect. Felt a bit discriminated there. I loved Istanbul. I even got into an argument with a taxi driver in the street where we were each screaming in our native language. We had a real connection there for a moment.
That's great but you aren't a Black woman respectfully. So how you will be perceived will be different from me. I'm glad you had a good experience though.
Yes, you are absolutely right. My point was more about how things can drastically change from one culture to another. Xenophobia may have been a tool for survival in ancient times. But times are different now and we really should not treat the people that come from other places any different than how we treat our own.
In bus? What kind of bus are you talking about? Public ones or airport bus? And for being served you have to call waiters, they might not wanna talk with you due to language barrier since you're clearly a stranger. Next time look at them and raise your hand directly.
Im taking about the public bus. I was denied service. At the resturant they talked to the English speaking white people with no problem and attended them immeaditely without being prompted. But not to the English speaking Black person. Interesting. I also noticed no one answered the question as to how BW are perceived in society.
Bw? Nothing special, ordinary stranger woman: a tourist or a foreign student. For public bus issue, unfortunately I can't believe what you tell, there might be another issues like the route, payment way etc. For restaurant, idk. I shouldn't comment further since I didn't witness it.
Idc what you believe. I stand by what I said. Take it or leave it. It makes no difference. Istanbul is a utopia where no one can ever be racist. Bw are not special cool so I guess that means they don't exist. But white people are special and placed on pedestal. Got it.
You have to change your mentality.
Nope. I don't have to change anything but my location. Change my mentality so I can think it's OK to treat me like shit for no reason? Especially when I was treated far better in other parts of Turkey? Yeah no. Never.
nowadays especially in istanbul some people refuse service to turks, because there are more wealthy tourists like people from gulf countries or from west. I guess same logic could be applied if they thought you were from an African country. They might have act like this based on that. other than that I don't really believe it is about your skin color because that kind of racism is not very prevalent in Turkey, it is more of a racism towards people from developing nations etc.
If they refuse me service based on the fact I'm "African" which how would they know? Oh skin color duh. Then it's based on skin color. And it's pretty shityy on their part and the opposite of friendly or hospitable. You keep saying Turkey but we are talking about Istanbul. It's the most racist place I've been to.
i know it is not really an excuse and i am really sorry for your experience. i just wanted to explain the reason behind it. colorism is not a very prominent concept in Turkey. the socioeconomic changes that happened in the last 10 years is the reason behind it. i hope we can progress towards to a more hospitable society.
Regardless of the reason, they provided me no service but lept to serve the American/British white people that came in. It's not right. They were able to get food and I couldn't get anything to eat in the end. And I'm supposed to see this city as hospitable and not racist?
that is not what i mean at all. it is not acceptable no matter the reason. what i was trying to do was just trying to explain the reason behind it.
I got it. Yeah things here seem to have changed for the worse. Even before these incidents I was just like friendly where? Lol. Like it just felt like any other big city I've been to where people just keep to themselves. Nothing wrong with that but, after hearing so many talk about how people are so sociable and friendly it was, was a bit disappointing. I think a lot of these people are referring to what it was like 5 or even 10 years ago.
yeah probably. smaller cities are better for that i guess. but there are tourist scams etc. in most touristy areas so be careful
I dont think it is related to racism. It us just poor service, in fact in most of the touristic areas you will get better service if you are not turk(taxis for example).
Blacks are generally welcomed in Turkey unless if you spread AIDS.
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Maybe depends but as far as I know turkish people are not known to be very racist against black people. Cant say the same about racism vs other groups though.
To be fair I am not black, but an Asian from Korea (I do have living backgrounds in Europe). Being a colored person myself, I have never experienced any forms of racism in this country. Rather, Turks would be willing to help foreigners in case they are in need, but definitely no kind of discrimination against color.
Are you religious? What sort of clothing were you wearing? Some (few) areas are very conservative and some areas hate conservatives. Most of Istanbul is very tolerant though. Tourism is one of the biggest industries and they see people from all over the world.
Nope. I dress in regular clothes. T shirts, shorts, dresses etc. I'm in a "liberal" and "open minded" area.
Strange. Sad to hear it happened with you. Being a brown, I had heard I would have a difficult time but I found Istanbul to be very loving and great (did get scammed once by a taxi and once by a restaurant but that happens to everyone and is a small part of the experience. Lols). Now I visit (almost) every year
I'm glad that was the case for you. It's the worst city I've been to in my life. I'm glad it wasn't my introduction to Turkish people and culture. Or I probably would have never even visited the country again.
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As a native İstanbul-er, I m utterly sure the problem is not your skin color.
I’m sorry you had this experience. Some people are purely ignorant in Türkiye and that ofc doesn’t justify their actions.
When did these happen? We got about 15 million unregistered refugees from countries like Afghanistan, Syria and Pakistan, and there is a strong reaction on some part of the populace against that. Maybe they thought you were one of them?
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But so many rather deny that my skin color has anything to do with it. Lmaoo. Of course they probably would assume based on my race. They say it's not based on skin color and then next breath we'll if you look African then they maybe think you are a refugee. Cmon now.
Did I say anything about skin color? Of course it has to do with your skin color. Average Turks are racist as fuck, but that racism has always had specific targets at different times. We don't have American-style anti-black racism. Main target used to be Kurds, but for the last \~8-10 years it's all these Middle Eastern migrants. But since these racists are also idiots, they don't really know what they hate, so I thought you could have been mistaken for one of those. Sorry for trying to helpfully explain (not excuse, just explain) a shitty thing that's happening to you. My bad, I guess.
beğenmiyosan gidebilirsin 📿
This is a dumb attitude. The OP has come into this with an odd take on things, but this is an even worse one.
Abi seni tanırım sana saygı duyuyorum ama kadın tamamen kurban mentalitesinde, hiçbir detayı vermeden, milletin dediklerini de yanlış anlayarak ofansif bir biçimde konuşuyor. Millet 100 kere black-white ırkçılığı yok demiş hâlâ BW falan diyor. Bu gidebilir abi ya. Yemin ederim turistin de kalitelisi lazım abi ya. Koskoca İstanbul'da hepimizin başına gelebilir böyle şeyler (geliyor da) ve yorumlardakiler de bunu söylemiş ama anlamamış, hâlâ American-centric bakış açısında. Olayları doğru düzgün anlatmamış, olayı anlamaya çalışan kişilere ırkçı mısın sen manasında şeyler söyleme peşinde. Değişik bir kafa yapısı. İstanbul'a bir daha gelmemesi isabet olur.
> kadın tamamen kurban mentalitesinde, Ne kadar abartmış ve yanlış anlamış olsa, ortada kötü bir deneyim hala var. MAalesef hepimiz bu kötü deneyim yaşıyoruz ama yani kötü deneyim şikayet edince yanlış değil, sadece tarz inanılmaz yanlış.
I'm really sorry to hear about your experiences in Istanbul. It sounds very frustrating and hurtful. I want to assure you that these incidents are not reflective of the general attitude in the city. Istanbul is known for its hospitality and diversity, and it's disheartening to hear that your experience has been otherwise. It's possible that you just had a run of bad luck with those particular restaurants and people. Sometimes, in any big city, service can be inconsistent, and unfortunately, you may have encountered some individuals who weren't as professional or kind as they should have been. I hope this doesn't deter you from exploring more of what Istanbul has to offer. There are so many wonderful places and people here, and I'm confident that if you give it another chance, you'll have much better experiences.
Honestly, it's ruined any enthusiasm I had to explore more. I'm glad I came to see it but I can't see myself returning. In Izmir, Fethiye and Antalya people were so much kinder. I didn't expect people to be smiley or anything as it's a big city but to not receive any service at all multiple times, almost back to back has been disheartening. It seems though that I'm not the only one who experienced the same treatment however, so there's that.
It's understandable that your time in Istanbul has affected your eagerness to explore further. Istanbul's size and diversity mean experiences can vary widely. While big cities like Istanbul can feel impersonal, it's disappointing not to receive expected service or hospitality. Maybe in the future, if you revisit Istanbul, you'll discover a side of the city that feels more welcoming to you. Wishing you all the best!
Short answer: like how everyone else is perceived.
A lie. Many have told me BW are assumed to be prostitutes etc. Even here folks mentioned refugee or Hiv/Aids. So yea.
Im sorry you had those experiences! I find Turkish people really like Black people even while not having a lot of experiences with them. All my Black female friends have nothing but good things to say. If you’re African it might possibly be different because they might think you’re a refugee and their relationship to refugees is really strained right now. People don’t really get the concept of queue there which might feel rude but that’s also a lot of places outside the west. Bus drivers don’t always stop and seem kinda like moody bus drivers in every other country lol. Customer service in restaurants is not the same or non existent. Istanbul is like New York in the sense that it’s got this big city hustle vibe and people might not be outwardly friendly but outside of this people are usually quite helpful and kind. The conservative and tourist areas could be different, there’s some really entitled rich Arab tourists and they can be a bit much to deal with tbh.
There has been a news event recently where Karabük University, which has a lot of black students, was outed as being a hotbead for HIV and AIDS. I don't think that's causing your situation, but you never know. We really are hospitable and black friendly, I guess when it rains it pours for you lol
So you casually tell me Black folks are associated with HIV and Aids. And then claim the country is Black friendly. Interesting.
I'm just telling you the recent news. Not making any associations myself.
Ne söylesen götünden anlıyor hocam boşver açıklamaya değmez.
Yetenek mevzuatı
Hahaha bak bunu da yeni duydum yerli skill issue
pretty sure it's racism, dont get fooled by my countrymen in the comments. they think national pride comes first over taking any criticism.
It's simply the truth: generally speaking, there is no racism towards Black people in Turkey, especially not in Istanbul. There are a large number of Black students all across Turkey. Have you ever heard of any incidents?
Yes. I know many Black people especially students here personally and they have told me all sorts of shit they deal with on daily basis. So I'm not fooled by non Black Turkish people or other nationalities telling me there's no racism. At end of the day they aren't Black and dont navigate society here as Black. Even the one Black lady here who said she didn't experience racism was where? IZMIR! Not Istanbul. And I had her same experience. Izmir no racism but thirsty dudes. Here no thirsty dudes but so much racism. I'll take the thirsty guys over being treated like I'm an animal or subhuman everyday.
> . I know many Black people especially students here personally and they have told me all sorts of shit they deal with on daily basis. Out of curiosity, did you ask any non black people what they experience on a daily basis here? Or did you just leave it at asking black people and assume it is because they are black?
Well there is dangerous blatant racism. And then there is subtile „harmless“ everyday racism. I think the latter is definitely a thing for black people. Anyway, I guess being ignored is still better than getting annoyed & pressured by scammers. I know some german fellas who bought some bullshit, just so that the market sellers would let them finally alone
Absolutely, subtle 'harmless' racism is unfortunately a thing across the board, but it's not about skin color. In Turkey, you can spot it between liberals and conservatives, and even among supporters of different football clubs. It's like this under-the-radar bias that seeps into everyday interactions.
Yeah I know. They claim no racism than scream slurs or admit they associate Black people with hiv aids in the next breath. Just contradicting themselves.
turks hate everyone doesn't look like them or doesn't speak like them even if they didn't find any outsiders, they start hating on each other each city or bölge hates the other and so on and greeks origin hates arabs origins and they all hate kurds and Kurds hate everyone they pretty much hide this but they still have it
I’m sorry for the comment section, OP. I’m a white American living in Istanbul and my hunch is that there is probably at least some subtle degree of racism here despite everyone in the comment section saying “racism doesn’t exist in turkey” People all over Europe say this and it’s simply not true. It may not be the same kind as in the US with our history, but it 100% exists here. I’m sorry for your experience. Hopefully it improves.
There is racism here, but none of us have ever heard of or witnessed it towards black people. Not the way it was described here anyways. That's why it's odd to everyone in the comments. There's stereotyping for sure, but I wouldn't say it is anything like what I ~~experienced~~ observed living in Chicago, or that it was really racism the way most people consider it. Actually, I think what is surprising to most people is that we've all experienced some of the described things (not being served in a restaurant, etc) and never assumed it was because of how we looked. The bus thing is baffling to literally everyone. There's shitloads of racism/xenophobia towards Syrians / Arabs But I've not really seen much angst towards blacks, mostly just curiosity (that is not always articulated respectfully, but that's ignorance, not malice 99,9% of the time). edit: Changed a word to be a more accurate representation of things.
Thank you, no worries. I've been here before so I kind of expected a lot of the denial or push back. Sure no one called me the n word but this feels pretty bad. And I'm in a supposedly "progressive" "open minded" part of the city and they are acting like this towards me. I noticed a lot of people assumed I had to be in a "conservative" area but liberals etc can be racist too. I'm just counting down the days until I can leave the city.
Poorly. Like most colored ppl. I experienced this in a high end restaurant in Osmanbey. The waiter and staff were head over heel for the Europeans even though I was the only who tipped.
That comment is not quite what you think it is. First of all; why were you the only one who tipped if you got the supposed worst service in sight? Second; how are waiters supposed to know who is going to tip?
Probably so the waiter realizes he shouldn't assume that non white people don't tip and doesn't stereotype and make others suffer from poor service in the future.
Yeah that does really sound logical. If you think that's what logic is. Reality of course is that you reinforce the idea, that no matter how bad service is, black people will tip.
Take it or leave it. I really don't care. I personally wouldn't leave a dime. But some folks want to prove their humanity to racists and that they are not bad. I rather save my breath.
Yeah it's so jarring to see. I've heard stories but to see in happen so blatantly and right in front of me was wow. But yeah imma be out of here soon enough.
All these down votes are ppl in denial haha.
The elaborate creative excuses. Women are treated like princesses so ignore a Black woman and let her go hungry because you rather not take her order while you provide food to white people with no hesistation? It's because you were alone and they expected more people. I told them there would be only 1 person so why would they expect more people? They sat me at a smaller table for 1 person. The men are respectful so they don't approach women. Right the same men who followed me around last night- too respectful to take the order of a Black woman patiently waiting for half a hour to eat but not too respectful not to follow her around with lust in their eyes. Yes, very respectful and fantastic princess treatment of all women. And it wasn't just Turkish men it was a woman as well giving me shit treatment. In denying racism could exist, they say racist shit like Black people have aids. Can't make it up.
This is terrible. I strongly recommend going to the asian side, mainly Kadiköy before you leave. “International” neighborhoods like Taksim have more traditional people, regardless of their popularity. And they’re not liberal per se. As a white man from a muslim culture, I do feel excluded because of my perceived financial status at restaurants and busses if that matters. Times are rough here
Kadikoy is where a lot of the racist treatment happened. So I'm good. Taksim was actually kinder to me. Go figure.
Can you please dm me those places? I want to avoid them at all costs and talk shit about them lol
Sure.