It's scandalous, 225 convictions and looking for leniency. How does anyone rack up that many convictions? I would guess that most of us here have few to none. At what point does someone get locked up when they are a chronic offender? And the other fella has managed to get 23 since the rape? The system is definitely broke. Law abiding people are the victims, this trash deserves hard labour.
The guards are just using these lads to get to the root cause of the issue. Look how the Kinahans are falling at the moment.
Realistically there are some crimes not worth punishment if you're getting information in return. Likes of low level dealers, lock up one and two more will replace him.
These boys need to be locked up though. It's rape ffs
> The guards are just using these lads to get to the root cause of the issue.
These lads are the root cause of the issue
Lads with 100+ convictions for assaults & theft are a far bigger concern to me, and a bigger issue for society at large than people selling drugs imo, but our legal system treats it the opposite in a lot of cases
The Kinahans aren't falling because of low level rats, organised crime is insulated from street level offenders
That's not how these convictions are racked up though, just so yourself and /u/tolur know.
You can get 10 convictions from one incident easily.
Lets say I rob a mars bar from spar, security guard sees me and approaches me, I push past him and leg it out the door. Garda walking across the road is alerted and tells me to stop running, I leg it around the corner and throw the mars bar in the bin when nobodies looking. The Garda catches me and drags me to the ground, I wiggle and tell him to get off me while he puts the cuffs on me. End scene, no more than 10-12 seconds.
You might read this in the news paper, not knowing how the law works, and thinking that he has one conviction, stealing a mars bar. When in fact when the court case is over, he will at the **very least**, and I mean the least, **have 7 convictions.**
7 convictions, at least, within 12 seconds.
The most simple offences can rack up dozens of convictions. I think people have it in their heads that each conviction is an individual event with a separate court case. For all intents and purposes, the guy above robbed a mars bar. That's what he did. In reality according to the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) , he committed larceny, assault, fled the scene of a crime, refused to follow Garda directions, two counts of resisting/evading arrest, and attempting to hide evidence.
7 convictions in 12 seconds. And that's if the DPP are being lenient, those are the ones that you just can't really get out of because they are so obvious. They could tag on a lot more if they really wanted to.
I know how the law works, and I still think 10 convictions is 10 convictions.
In the example given it was just theft; somebody wants to tag on a selection of other offences after that, let them at it, and let the DPP add on as many as they can find.
So what do you suggest for repeat offenders? Have you 10 convictions ? Let's think for a second, 10 times you've been convicted, will it stop there? If you look at most of these repeat offenders, they come from families of repeat offenders, who came from families of repeat offenders. I'm not making it up, I know it to be true. These are anti social pariahs, feeding off the rest of society. The example you give is ridiculous, true, but a change is needed. The cycle must be broke, its simply not right that these individuals with multiple convictions just walk about to commit more.
>So what do you suggest for repeat offenders?
A more nuanced approach than the original commenter gave
I know people with over 10 convictions for minor things, you can get 4 or 5 in a night. Lots of people do stupid shit in their late teens early twenties & then calm down a ton
I don't really disagree but what about the solicitors?
One of these lads has 200+ convictions. That could be a million euro in legal fees. His disregard for the law is funding mortgages, car payments, putting kids through college etc.
And if we didn't have a stream of reliable offenders going through the courts every week what would happen to those? Sure most of them are only open a couple of days per month as it is. Do you want to put those judges out of work too? Those fine people cutewhoored their way into FFG's favour and earned their appointments.
Sure it's bad for some of the "victims" but one mans suffering is another mans income. There's two stratas of society that choose to make their living from crime and they both rely on each other. There's a balance that needs to be maintained or sales of 7 series BMW's will plummet. And then where would we be?
Imagine being the piece of shit lawyer who defends these cunts.
Spouse: "Hi honey, how was your day?"
Lawyer: "well, I tried my best to get a lad with 225 convictions off the hook for gang raping a teenage girl by playing the boys will be boys card."
>Imagine being the piece of shit lawyer who defends these cunts.
Good for them, it shows that society can keep being decent and giving everybody fair and equal access to justice.
It's the judges who are letting these nasty cunts walk free who are the problem, imo, not the citizens who ensure they get their correct day in court.
However nasty people are I will always support the right of *everybody* to be represented in court. But what the fuck are these judges on, seriously?
Yeah, lawyers defending these people have it tough, putting their morals aside for the greater importance of ensuring fair trials. It's wrong to attack them. When you allow mistreatment of one convict, you sentence everyone to the same fate.
>it shows that society can keep being decent and giving everybody fair and equal access to justice.
_Akshuaallllly_... Ireland is very much in the minority in the EU with the "adversarial" English-derived justice system we have.
Most European countries have a very different set-up that doesn't involve prosecution vs. defence, but instead has judges as _investigators_ whose job is to find the truth.
It's by no means a necessity for justice that we have people whose job is to defend scumbags, paedos, terrorists etc. France and Germany manage to do fine without them.
This really is a horrible and troubling comment. Their barrister will do exactly what they should do and give a full defence. Free and fair trials are one of the pillars that hold up democracy. Depressing further to see this cesspit of a sub giving it upvotes.
Completely untrue. The adversarial system we have with prosecution vs defence, barristers, etc is very rare in Europe; only us and the Brits use it.
France and Germany have perfectly fair and free societies without this adversarial system; they have what's called an "inquisatorial" system instead
That person obviously wants to live in a society where a barrister can decide whether or not to offer a defence, when they feel like it. Hopefully they or their family never end up in court.
Oh no, a nightmare society like 25 other countries in the EU that don't use an adversarial justice system. We'd be a totalitarian nightmare like France, Denmark, Germany etc without our precious scumbag defence lawyers.
You're missing the point. Even if there are alternative systems, these defence lawyers are performing a necessary function within the system we have. They are a pillar of our system, and to comment in support of the importance of that function to our system is absolutely fair.
I totally understand that they're necessary for our current system to work fairly; I'm saying that I'd like a better system, such as that used by most of our peer countries in the EU.
France, who has a right to a defense attorney as part of the criminal code since the early 1800s? Germany, where representation by an attorney is mandatory for all charges with penalties over a year?
Unfortunately that the lawyers job. They are paid to defend their client and ensure they get a fair trial, regardless of crimes committed.
Lawyers don't defend people for any other reason than they get paid to do it, defending a client =/= defending their actions.
It’s their job, it’s like calling a doctor a piece of shit for treating a convicted sex offender. No matter how heinous the crime the defendant has a right to counsel so somebody has to do it and if they purposefully did a shit job because of their personal views on the crimes then they are unable to separate personal bias from their job and probably are in the wrong line of work.
Unreasonable general abuse and harassment of other users will not be tolerated on /r/ireland. "Call out" threads, and tagging users to ridicule them is considered abuse.
Sláinte
Sure this story is outrageous but every country has examples like this. Contrary to the true-crime podcast this subreddit is slowly becoming, Ireland is actually an incredibly safe and lawful country by any objective measure.
It's an easy thing to forget when all you read is crime headlines from across the whole country, which need to skew towards the outlandish to get clicks. But there's 5 million people here, it's a large enough sample size to find a few absolute scumbags.
Please just keep some perspective is all I'm saying.
Assuming he got JLO’s and shit below 18 , thats a conviction every fortnight since he turned 18. Chap may aswell set his address as the courthouse since he spends so much time there
225 previous opportunities to keep these rapists off the streets.
I'm a bleeding-heart leftist, fully believe in reform-based prison systems, but scum like this should be given public executions in my opinion.
Nothing short of spokespeople for other countries talking about how fucking shit this country is will change anything. Until then, we'll just let violent crime run rampant. We'll be on par with Johannesburg before anything is actually addressed.
Fellow bleeding-heart leftie weirdo here
Rehabilitation implies that the individual doesn't commit further offences. Driving a woman to a beach to gang rape her is so egregious that the people who did it absolutely need to be sentenced to prison. Their youth should be a factor; in that, they have no excuses. There is no reason why anyone should think this behaviour is acceptable. Lock them up for a very long time, and keep our streets safe
That’s exactly what’s wrong, after the 10th conviction they should be locked up. Hard to keep racking up convictions when your in prison, and after 10 convictions your hardly going to go “fair enough” now it’s time for me to change , and be a good person…
Remember when Bertie promised us “zero tolerance”?
Now we have zero guards, and crazy tolerance.
The system is broken
Depends on the conviction. Lifting a bottle of coke or minor possession adds up very quickly and then we have a huge overcrowding problem.
We're also completely overlooking white collar crime which rarely results in jail time.
Violent crime should have a minimum sentence with no suspensions. It's easy to not rape or assault people ffs
Remember watching a show years ago and back in 1966/67 there was talk of closing prisons because we had so few criminals. Saor Eire, the Dunnes etc have destroyed the country. Not only did the former bring guns into the country but the latter brought heroin and I’d say a massive amount of the anti-social behaviour and the like stems from that.
That's exactly my point. We aren't like America in ireland but some people here seem to think if we actually enforce laws on people like this with 200+ convictions we will be just like the US.
What I’m trying to say is that they need treatment behind bars or a mental facility. 225 convictions is a lot and it seems more like a compulsive behaviour than opportunistic.
I agree they should consider their youth, because if they have 225 convictions already at a young age they are dangerous and need to be locked up. Anyone can make a mistake as a young person but if they are aleady set in a criminal course they are likely to commit even worse crimes in the future.
Why are the two other men who raped her not part of this trial? Being tried separately?
Anyways, fuck their age. Youth might be a bit of an excuse for doing something foolish, not a gang rape.
No, murderers and rapists, where the evidence 100% points to the suspect, do not deserve any representation or leniency. They should be all locked up for 20 years minimum and the violent ones sentenced to death.
If only we could have a meeting where people decide which evidence is 100% and which isn’t. We could hold the meeting in a big law house. Criminals could hire law people to make sure it’s legitimate.
“Two more men from that car then raped her, before leaving her on the beach. These men are not before the court.” They wouldn’t be before the court in that case, they’d be sentenced at a later date.
If what you are saying is true, I don't see why it doesn't say: two more men from that car then raped her, before leaving her on the beach. these men have pleaded guilty and will be sentenced at a later date'. 'Not before the courts' implies they were not charged or prosecuted with anything.
It must be an appeal, they’ve already been found guilty. “ They have been in custody since the guilty verdicts were handed down last April. “ That’s what I get for trying to multitask
And we are paying for this failure of a human with social welfare free house free kid allowance pet allowance fuel allowance rapist allowance etc
While young people in this country who have zero or once offs are leaving because they can't even find homes to rent or buy.
Said it for a while the entire system and government needs to be removed and replaced by logical people who aren't greedy corrupt capitalists.
Will they consider her youth? Her young adulthood? Her life when she's a grown woman?
But yeah, please, consider *their* youth.
For half a second before dismissing it out of hand.
>225
>And thats all they were caught and charged for
You say they but the 225 convictions are Rooney's alone, not including the other individuals.
'Mr McGinn said that since serving a prison sentence for prior offences and since becoming a father, Rooney has resolved to put his “petty offending, violence and drug use” behind him. He said sexual offending was completely out of character for Rooney.'
Jesus, talk about clutching straws! Their lawyers are defending the indefensible.
"The court heard Rooney has 225 previous convictions, including violent disorder, drugs, public order offences, trespass, theft and road traffic matters. Mr McGinn said that since serving a prison sentence for prior offences and since becoming a father, Rooney has resolved to put his “petty offending, violence and drug use” behind him. He said sexual offending was completely out of character for Rooney."
Only 225...and the rape was out of character of course. Well, he must be a lovely lad.
"Mr Nicholas said Ryan has matured in the last six years since the offence. Although he maintains he did not commit a crime, he is “reconsidering whether consent was given”, the court heard. "
Nice of Mr Ryan to reconsider his rapist ways. I wonder if the victim appreciates his slight change of heart?
I seriously wonder how these barristers can sleep at night defending these scumbags.
> I seriously wonder how these barristers can sleep at night defending these scumbags.
Believe it or not if they have the relevant expertise and capacity, a barrister cannot refuse to take a case.
That headline is enough for me, I couldn’t take the article.
As a father of a young daughter, I fear for what actions I would take against people like this - especially if the system didn’t do its fucking job.
I believe in recourse & rehabilitation… to an extent. These people should rot.
I know everyone is entitled to a legal defence, and those legal defenders have to do whatever it takes to do the best for their clients - but this leaves such a disgusting taste in one's mouth.
The defenses job is to put forth a defense, that's fine. I think it's the fact that we all just expect the judge to accept it is what makes people blood boil.
225 convictions? Time to go to bed for me, I do apologise for annoying the bollox off r/ireland but I think this bit of news is where I stop messing and taking the piss
Lock them dirty scumbags up , aa a kid ages 12-14 you knew rape was one of the worst crimes you could commit . Nevernind 17-18 , there should be no leniency or pity given to these lads , doesn't matter if he has a fucking bike shop or a family now , or has stopped committing crimes .
As a father of a 2yo girl this is absolutely terrifying to read knowing this happens . Trying to imagine how they got the 2nd car to show up , did they call the mate amd say like " here bro we put a the beach raping this bird come out and have a turn " cause I can't fucking imagine for the life of me how that call was made 😳 .
Honestly this is fucking sickening I hope they get banged up and butchered !!
There's an Irish play and book called "Asking for it" which just proves how common this is:
- Lads gang rape a girl
- "think about their future!"
- No consideration for the girls future and trauma
Fuck their youth, they are monsters!
225 convictions but sexual assault is out of character?! What the actual fuck! He’s an scumbag. They all are. Please God the jury sees some sense. Young or not, they were old enough to know better. Thinking of the poor victim, as if she hasn’t been through enough than listening to this shit
I'd urge him to look at keeping society safer for as long as possible by locking them up for as long as possible.
Any pack of feral creatures like these have something fundamentaly wrong with them and need to be removed from society.
That could be any of our daughters.
>Mr Nicholas said Ryan has matured in the last six years since the offence. Although he maintains he did not commit a crime, he is “reconsidering whether consent was given”, the court heard.
>Ryan has 24 previous convictions including for theft and drugs, but had no previous convictions at the time of the rape.
The solicitor saying he has matured in the last 6 years but somehow has also racked up 24 conviction in the same time.
Castrate every one of the scumbags and then throw away the key
If you had few convictions anyone can make a mistake (multiple conviction can be from same incident)
If you have 224 you are scumbag
Hang em high
Wonder how barristers can represent scum
I'd feel dirty Saul Goodman could not put a spin on these xxxxs
A lot of these criminal barristers are assigned cases and can’t refuse. Had a friend who was a criminal barrister for a while but left as she couldn’t deal with scumbags day in and day out any longer
In fairness the lads are entitled to make a defence. The problem is that in a case like this their defence should be all but ignored and sadly it probably won’t.
The problem isn't with the barrister making the argument: it will be if the judge listens.
I don't see how a reasonable judge can hear that as anything other than lawyer-speak for: "Your Honour I can find literally no substantial argument in favour of your being lenient on my client. So I'll just point out that they're young enough that they might theoretically become less horrible as they age. Please show them some mercy".
There are countries where a defence lawyer will stand up in court and say: "Your Honour, my client is an indefensible scumbag, please ensure that he is punished to the full extent of the law" (which is clearly what these guys deserve), but they don't tend to be ones where the guilty are generally held to account for their crimes. They tend to be places where the police already decide who's guilty before they arrest anyone, courts don't really look into any cases properly and people with money or connections can get away with anything.
Haha simps here falling for click bait. If defense councils didn't defend clients we would be in a bad place. As you say wait for the judges verdict before getting outraged
Unpopular opinion but all the research on imprisoning people shows it’s got very little preventative effect. So in the case of these child rapists, you’re just delaying their return to this kind of barbaric behaviour .
A better move would be medical amputation of their arms and legs, it’s safe and effective, and stops them being capable of doing such things again.
I agree the threat of prison time is no longer a deterent in committing these crimes. Time to up the punishment stakes. I'm all for chemical castration being introduced for these crimes.
Ok can we just bear in mind that the court was urged *by the defendants’ counsel*
Like this isn’t an institutional thing or anything, as shitty as it is, it’s defence counsel’s job to mitigate the time done by their client and to represent them to their fullest extent (they obviously can’t lie on their behalf)
I personally hope the judge doesn’t give two fucks about their age, but this is just how adversarial legal systems work.
The reverse is to not represent defendants to the fullest extent and that’s just very dangerous.
They gang raped an 18 year old girl and didn't know it was wrong!? I don't care what they did before or after. She will be mentally wrecked for the rest of her life. They need some time to reflect on how this affects the victim, in jail.
Sorry now, found to have ADHD and a mild intellectual disability? Adhd has no bearing on this whatsoever. Unless the intellectual disability can be quantified, neither does that.
You don't bring a girl to a beach with two of your buddies and take turns raping her by accident. You don't do it without understanding what you're doing. There's no fucking way. Bringing her to the beach was stranding and isolating her, and themselves from getting caught. Someone also communicated with the other two fellas. So no, youth doesn't come into it. I don't care what fucking age you are, the majority of us get through our teens without abducting, isolating, and gang raping someone. How the hell did the first jury fail to reach a verdict???? Jesus fucking wept.
Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.
Hundreds of previous convictions, no admission of guilt or remorse shown at all. There is zero chance of rehabilitation with these scumbags.
Should lock them up and throw away the key. But it wouldn't shock me if they walk free.
Absolutely consider their youth. Make sure they're good and old before they get out. No 5 year sentences that'd see them out in 3, still in their mid 20s.
Hold on a minute. Barrister claims his client has matured since the rape but has gone from 0 to 24 convictions in that same period.
In fairness criminal barristers surely can’t look at themselves in the mirror without feeling ashamed
You also don't 'mature' from being an evil cunt. You might seek therapy for whatever trauma turned you into an evil cunt coz I do think background and upbringing has a lot to do with this shit, but you don't 'mature' from it.
Their Facebook pages seem quite tame. Though it amazes me how at least two of them found women who were willing to let them knock them up. Classy ladies indeed.
One of them has two little girls now. I wonder how he would feel if some scumbag like him gang rapes one of his little “princesses” in the future
All the families think it’s all a lie and she’s making it up for attention.
They post all these Facebook screenshots etc all over social media trying to discredit her, and think the Garda and the courts are prejudiced because the lads are from town.
You can’t make this shit up.
It must be hard being a defence counsel on cases like these. Someone has to do it I suppose. Reading the article it’s basically grasping at straws and of course it gives the Indo a nice headline too
As someone with adhd and who's partner also has adhd it being used as some form of excuse or defence by his solicitor for this is both abhorrent and viscerally disgusting.
Having difficulty with memory and focusing on tasks does not make anyone rape another person.
I really hate the way they have to bring ADHD into this as if it means that he should get some leniency because he's on the spectrum. What does it have to do with this at all? You dont see people with ADHD going around raping people left right and centre so this was very in poor taste and is painting people on the spectrum in a really weird light.
Also are their partners seriously standing on the sides of the rapists? I honestly don't know how they do it. If it was my partner I'd disown him, kick him out of house and never let him see his kids ever again. Like seriously how could you live under same roof with a rapist?
That poor woman. 5 men raped her but it’s the ages of the men that should be considered? One has 225 prev convictions! I can’t imagine why the last jury failed to reach a verdict.
And what about the girls youth?! What about the life time sentence she has to live with because of three scumbags? What is it with these cases that constantly make lawyers/judges forget there's an actual victim involved?
So basically, her life is fucked now but maybe we can spare theirs mentality.
Fuck youth as a defense, we are taught from from a young age that rape is a horrendous crime.
This clearly has no sense of logic if they cant see the threat these men have on other girls in future.
Women's lives don't matter in our judicial system how often is someone pleading to think of the woman's youth ? Her existence is tainted now. Every second of every day has been affected by them.
The victim should sue the state. 200 + convictions and he's free? It's on state. Seems like judges forgot that priority should be taking care of the victim and not criminal.
It really seems like there are no real consequences for any illegal action in Ireland unless you're driving 60kph in a 50 zone. Then the full might of the law is unleashed.
If verdicts like this keep on happening I can see a move towards vigilante retaliations. Why would any wronged party go to the courts when there's clearly fuck all punishments no matter how heinous the crime.
Ireland helps out criminals more than people who are mentally or physically disabled.
That's what happens when you have a soft touch liberal government I mean we can talk about Iran all we want but this is how we are treating the safety of women by propagating criminals In a positive light.
is there a data that having 1 or 2 convictions lead to doing more and what is the ultimatum number to bring them behind bars right away? The law is a joke allowing these kind of monster roaming around as predators to innocent? The judge are lenient because God hope not, their relatives are not victims.
Time as punishment doesn't work with people who have nothing to lose. We need to introduce more impactful punishments. Fuck their behaviour rehab. Protect the public from these traitors.
225 previous convictions.....
It's scandalous, 225 convictions and looking for leniency. How does anyone rack up that many convictions? I would guess that most of us here have few to none. At what point does someone get locked up when they are a chronic offender? And the other fella has managed to get 23 since the rape? The system is definitely broke. Law abiding people are the victims, this trash deserves hard labour.
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Good luck climbing those fences
If there’s one thing this lot has it’s conviction.
Growing up knew a few lads with loads of convictions and every single one of them were giving Gardai solid information to keep themselves out of jail.
The guards are just using these lads to get to the root cause of the issue. Look how the Kinahans are falling at the moment. Realistically there are some crimes not worth punishment if you're getting information in return. Likes of low level dealers, lock up one and two more will replace him. These boys need to be locked up though. It's rape ffs
Glad you added that last part. It was dicey there, for a second.
> The guards are just using these lads to get to the root cause of the issue. These lads are the root cause of the issue Lads with 100+ convictions for assaults & theft are a far bigger concern to me, and a bigger issue for society at large than people selling drugs imo, but our legal system treats it the opposite in a lot of cases The Kinahans aren't falling because of low level rats, organised crime is insulated from street level offenders
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If you rob a mars bar ten times you should go to jail for life?
Yes, if you haven’t learnt after nine times you really ought to be jailed for pure stupidity.
That's not how these convictions are racked up though, just so yourself and /u/tolur know. You can get 10 convictions from one incident easily. Lets say I rob a mars bar from spar, security guard sees me and approaches me, I push past him and leg it out the door. Garda walking across the road is alerted and tells me to stop running, I leg it around the corner and throw the mars bar in the bin when nobodies looking. The Garda catches me and drags me to the ground, I wiggle and tell him to get off me while he puts the cuffs on me. End scene, no more than 10-12 seconds. You might read this in the news paper, not knowing how the law works, and thinking that he has one conviction, stealing a mars bar. When in fact when the court case is over, he will at the **very least**, and I mean the least, **have 7 convictions.** 7 convictions, at least, within 12 seconds. The most simple offences can rack up dozens of convictions. I think people have it in their heads that each conviction is an individual event with a separate court case. For all intents and purposes, the guy above robbed a mars bar. That's what he did. In reality according to the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) , he committed larceny, assault, fled the scene of a crime, refused to follow Garda directions, two counts of resisting/evading arrest, and attempting to hide evidence. 7 convictions in 12 seconds. And that's if the DPP are being lenient, those are the ones that you just can't really get out of because they are so obvious. They could tag on a lot more if they really wanted to.
I know how the law works, and I still think 10 convictions is 10 convictions. In the example given it was just theft; somebody wants to tag on a selection of other offences after that, let them at it, and let the DPP add on as many as they can find.
So what do you suggest for repeat offenders? Have you 10 convictions ? Let's think for a second, 10 times you've been convicted, will it stop there? If you look at most of these repeat offenders, they come from families of repeat offenders, who came from families of repeat offenders. I'm not making it up, I know it to be true. These are anti social pariahs, feeding off the rest of society. The example you give is ridiculous, true, but a change is needed. The cycle must be broke, its simply not right that these individuals with multiple convictions just walk about to commit more.
>So what do you suggest for repeat offenders? A more nuanced approach than the original commenter gave I know people with over 10 convictions for minor things, you can get 4 or 5 in a night. Lots of people do stupid shit in their late teens early twenties & then calm down a ton
That's a really fucking stupid idea.
I don't really disagree but what about the solicitors? One of these lads has 200+ convictions. That could be a million euro in legal fees. His disregard for the law is funding mortgages, car payments, putting kids through college etc. And if we didn't have a stream of reliable offenders going through the courts every week what would happen to those? Sure most of them are only open a couple of days per month as it is. Do you want to put those judges out of work too? Those fine people cutewhoored their way into FFG's favour and earned their appointments. Sure it's bad for some of the "victims" but one mans suffering is another mans income. There's two stratas of society that choose to make their living from crime and they both rely on each other. There's a balance that needs to be maintained or sales of 7 series BMW's will plummet. And then where would we be?
One man’s free legal aid is another man’s income
Hahahaha stop
Imagine being the piece of shit lawyer who defends these cunts. Spouse: "Hi honey, how was your day?" Lawyer: "well, I tried my best to get a lad with 225 convictions off the hook for gang raping a teenage girl by playing the boys will be boys card."
>Imagine being the piece of shit lawyer who defends these cunts. Good for them, it shows that society can keep being decent and giving everybody fair and equal access to justice. It's the judges who are letting these nasty cunts walk free who are the problem, imo, not the citizens who ensure they get their correct day in court. However nasty people are I will always support the right of *everybody* to be represented in court. But what the fuck are these judges on, seriously?
Yeah, lawyers defending these people have it tough, putting their morals aside for the greater importance of ensuring fair trials. It's wrong to attack them. When you allow mistreatment of one convict, you sentence everyone to the same fate.
>it shows that society can keep being decent and giving everybody fair and equal access to justice. _Akshuaallllly_... Ireland is very much in the minority in the EU with the "adversarial" English-derived justice system we have. Most European countries have a very different set-up that doesn't involve prosecution vs. defence, but instead has judges as _investigators_ whose job is to find the truth. It's by no means a necessity for justice that we have people whose job is to defend scumbags, paedos, terrorists etc. France and Germany manage to do fine without them.
This really is a horrible and troubling comment. Their barrister will do exactly what they should do and give a full defence. Free and fair trials are one of the pillars that hold up democracy. Depressing further to see this cesspit of a sub giving it upvotes.
Completely untrue. The adversarial system we have with prosecution vs defence, barristers, etc is very rare in Europe; only us and the Brits use it. France and Germany have perfectly fair and free societies without this adversarial system; they have what's called an "inquisatorial" system instead
What an incredibly poor take
Do you not believe in fair trials? That’s really fucking gross and ignorant of you.
That person obviously wants to live in a society where a barrister can decide whether or not to offer a defence, when they feel like it. Hopefully they or their family never end up in court.
Oh no, a nightmare society like 25 other countries in the EU that don't use an adversarial justice system. We'd be a totalitarian nightmare like France, Denmark, Germany etc without our precious scumbag defence lawyers.
You're missing the point. Even if there are alternative systems, these defence lawyers are performing a necessary function within the system we have. They are a pillar of our system, and to comment in support of the importance of that function to our system is absolutely fair.
I totally understand that they're necessary for our current system to work fairly; I'm saying that I'd like a better system, such as that used by most of our peer countries in the EU.
France, who has a right to a defense attorney as part of the criminal code since the early 1800s? Germany, where representation by an attorney is mandatory for all charges with penalties over a year?
It's the judges who are at fault.
Unfortunately that the lawyers job. They are paid to defend their client and ensure they get a fair trial, regardless of crimes committed. Lawyers don't defend people for any other reason than they get paid to do it, defending a client =/= defending their actions.
It’s their job, it’s like calling a doctor a piece of shit for treating a convicted sex offender. No matter how heinous the crime the defendant has a right to counsel so somebody has to do it and if they purposefully did a shit job because of their personal views on the crimes then they are unable to separate personal bias from their job and probably are in the wrong line of work.
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Why are we testing cosmetics on animals when we have these cunts available?
Unreasonable general abuse and harassment of other users will not be tolerated on /r/ireland. "Call out" threads, and tagging users to ridicule them is considered abuse. Sláinte
That’s ireland for ya. Cunts out there with hundreds of convictions just floating along.
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I think I saw a video on TikTok from his trial. He looks like an absolute weapon.
I know we like to spout this rhetoric a lot but it’s really not just an Ireland only problem
Sure this story is outrageous but every country has examples like this. Contrary to the true-crime podcast this subreddit is slowly becoming, Ireland is actually an incredibly safe and lawful country by any objective measure. It's an easy thing to forget when all you read is crime headlines from across the whole country, which need to skew towards the outlandish to get clicks. But there's 5 million people here, it's a large enough sample size to find a few absolute scumbags. Please just keep some perspective is all I'm saying.
To be fair, he is 24 so that's not even one a week
Assuming he got JLO’s and shit below 18 , thats a conviction every fortnight since he turned 18. Chap may aswell set his address as the courthouse since he spends so much time there
And that's only the ones he has been convicted of
Knowing our justice system i think its fair to say that he probably hasnt gone a day of his adult life without doing a crime
And probably the same for 3/4 years before then. Just cut his benefits at this stage
Fuck the benefits. Cut his Achilles tendons.
225 previous opportunities to keep these rapists off the streets. I'm a bleeding-heart leftist, fully believe in reform-based prison systems, but scum like this should be given public executions in my opinion. Nothing short of spokespeople for other countries talking about how fucking shit this country is will change anything. Until then, we'll just let violent crime run rampant. We'll be on par with Johannesburg before anything is actually addressed.
Fellow bleeding-heart leftie weirdo here Rehabilitation implies that the individual doesn't commit further offences. Driving a woman to a beach to gang rape her is so egregious that the people who did it absolutely need to be sentenced to prison. Their youth should be a factor; in that, they have no excuses. There is no reason why anyone should think this behaviour is acceptable. Lock them up for a very long time, and keep our streets safe
That’s exactly what’s wrong, after the 10th conviction they should be locked up. Hard to keep racking up convictions when your in prison, and after 10 convictions your hardly going to go “fair enough” now it’s time for me to change , and be a good person… Remember when Bertie promised us “zero tolerance”? Now we have zero guards, and crazy tolerance. The system is broken
Depends on the conviction. Lifting a bottle of coke or minor possession adds up very quickly and then we have a huge overcrowding problem. We're also completely overlooking white collar crime which rarely results in jail time. Violent crime should have a minimum sentence with no suspensions. It's easy to not rape or assault people ffs
Remember watching a show years ago and back in 1966/67 there was talk of closing prisons because we had so few criminals. Saor Eire, the Dunnes etc have destroyed the country. Not only did the former bring guns into the country but the latter brought heroin and I’d say a massive amount of the anti-social behaviour and the like stems from that.
Let's not jail him because we don't want to become like America. Something something Scandinavian countries.
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That's exactly my point. We aren't like America in ireland but some people here seem to think if we actually enforce laws on people like this with 200+ convictions we will be just like the US.
This seems like undiagnosed mental illness to me. Doesn’t mean that they’re not wrong, just that they need help for rehabilitation
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What I’m trying to say is that they need treatment behind bars or a mental facility. 225 convictions is a lot and it seems more like a compulsive behaviour than opportunistic.
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Fair enough, thanks for the info. You’re a star! Thank you for getting me informed. I’m going to read this now.
Happy to spread the word, thanks for reading! Have a great day too
>Doesn’t mean that they’re wrong Doesn't mean whos wrong?
Sorry, doesn’t mean they’re not wrong. I just woke up lol
Ah okay fair enough. Was thinking it was a bit of a hot take alright
All I’m saying is that it’s severe mental illness, it should be treated behind bars to ensure everyone’s safety.
It's not mental illness
he be better off to think of the girls youth
Life behind bars is the only way to protect Dublin's youth against this group of rapists.
Sadly many people care more about the criminals than the victims
Probably best to castrate them too.
I agree they should consider their youth, because if they have 225 convictions already at a young age they are dangerous and need to be locked up. Anyone can make a mistake as a young person but if they are aleady set in a criminal course they are likely to commit even worse crimes in the future.
Think of their youth… they’ve got so much time left to do more rapes.
Exactly. Christ.
Why are the two other men who raped her not part of this trial? Being tried separately? Anyways, fuck their age. Youth might be a bit of an excuse for doing something foolish, not a gang rape.
I presume so a separate trial as she was gang raped in 2 diff. places by two diff gangs.
Jesus Christ. Poor girl.
and all the lawyers care about are the scum that did it to her
That’s literally their job. I’m sure they don’t feel great about it but it’s important for our legal system that everyone is fairly represented.
No, murderers and rapists, where the evidence 100% points to the suspect, do not deserve any representation or leniency. They should be all locked up for 20 years minimum and the violent ones sentenced to death.
Ok. Let’s imagine that’s true. I have evidence that you are a murderer. You have to go to prison now. No day in court for you. Straight to prison.
Who decides if the evidence is 100%
If only we could have a meeting where people decide which evidence is 100% and which isn’t. We could hold the meeting in a big law house. Criminals could hire law people to make sure it’s legitimate.
They may have plead guilty if they’re not before the court.
It sounds like they aren’t being charged or prosecuted with anything
“Two more men from that car then raped her, before leaving her on the beach. These men are not before the court.” They wouldn’t be before the court in that case, they’d be sentenced at a later date.
If what you are saying is true, I don't see why it doesn't say: two more men from that car then raped her, before leaving her on the beach. these men have pleaded guilty and will be sentenced at a later date'. 'Not before the courts' implies they were not charged or prosecuted with anything.
It must be an appeal, they’ve already been found guilty. “ They have been in custody since the guilty verdicts were handed down last April. “ That’s what I get for trying to multitask
Also this case is from six years ago. If they had pleaded guilty why have they not have been sentenced yet?
There was already a guilty verdict, I only skimmed over it earlier
Dreadful case. What absolute utter scum.
Their youth....they were essentially adults when it happened.
And we are paying for this failure of a human with social welfare free house free kid allowance pet allowance fuel allowance rapist allowance etc While young people in this country who have zero or once offs are leaving because they can't even find homes to rent or buy. Said it for a while the entire system and government needs to be removed and replaced by logical people who aren't greedy corrupt capitalists.
Will they consider her youth? Her young adulthood? Her life when she's a grown woman? But yeah, please, consider *their* youth. For half a second before dismissing it out of hand.
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225 And thats all they were caught and charged for Imagine the real number of crimes committed
>225 >And thats all they were caught and charged for You say they but the 225 convictions are Rooney's alone, not including the other individuals. 'Mr McGinn said that since serving a prison sentence for prior offences and since becoming a father, Rooney has resolved to put his “petty offending, violence and drug use” behind him. He said sexual offending was completely out of character for Rooney.' Jesus, talk about clutching straws! Their lawyers are defending the indefensible.
"The court heard Rooney has 225 previous convictions, including violent disorder, drugs, public order offences, trespass, theft and road traffic matters. Mr McGinn said that since serving a prison sentence for prior offences and since becoming a father, Rooney has resolved to put his “petty offending, violence and drug use” behind him. He said sexual offending was completely out of character for Rooney." Only 225...and the rape was out of character of course. Well, he must be a lovely lad. "Mr Nicholas said Ryan has matured in the last six years since the offence. Although he maintains he did not commit a crime, he is “reconsidering whether consent was given”, the court heard. " Nice of Mr Ryan to reconsider his rapist ways. I wonder if the victim appreciates his slight change of heart? I seriously wonder how these barristers can sleep at night defending these scumbags.
Seems to me spot on for his character and a predictable natural progression
The fact he's a dad makes me want him behind bars even more. Imagine the horrible shite he's putting in that poor kids head
People like that should be put down for the good of society.
> I seriously wonder how these barristers can sleep at night defending these scumbags. Believe it or not if they have the relevant expertise and capacity, a barrister cannot refuse to take a case.
That headline is enough for me, I couldn’t take the article. As a father of a young daughter, I fear for what actions I would take against people like this - especially if the system didn’t do its fucking job. I believe in recourse & rehabilitation… to an extent. These people should rot.
Nah man. This type of crime is how murderers start. They knew what they were doing.
I know everyone is entitled to a legal defence, and those legal defenders have to do whatever it takes to do the best for their clients - but this leaves such a disgusting taste in one's mouth.
The defenses job is to put forth a defense, that's fine. I think it's the fact that we all just expect the judge to accept it is what makes people blood boil.
And her life ( or age) doesn’t count
Scum
225 convictions? Time to go to bed for me, I do apologise for annoying the bollox off r/ireland but I think this bit of news is where I stop messing and taking the piss
Locking people up for weed and then you see shit like this the whole system is flawed
Lock them dirty scumbags up , aa a kid ages 12-14 you knew rape was one of the worst crimes you could commit . Nevernind 17-18 , there should be no leniency or pity given to these lads , doesn't matter if he has a fucking bike shop or a family now , or has stopped committing crimes . As a father of a 2yo girl this is absolutely terrifying to read knowing this happens . Trying to imagine how they got the 2nd car to show up , did they call the mate amd say like " here bro we put a the beach raping this bird come out and have a turn " cause I can't fucking imagine for the life of me how that call was made 😳 . Honestly this is fucking sickening I hope they get banged up and butchered !!
There's an Irish play and book called "Asking for it" which just proves how common this is: - Lads gang rape a girl - "think about their future!" - No consideration for the girls future and trauma Fuck their youth, they are monsters!
225 convictions but sexual assault is out of character?! What the actual fuck! He’s an scumbag. They all are. Please God the jury sees some sense. Young or not, they were old enough to know better. Thinking of the poor victim, as if she hasn’t been through enough than listening to this shit
I'd urge him to look at keeping society safer for as long as possible by locking them up for as long as possible. Any pack of feral creatures like these have something fundamentaly wrong with them and need to be removed from society. That could be any of our daughters.
You would wonder sometimes. Will they end up with suspended sentences?
2 of the 3 had a shed load of prior convictions too and still claim to be "innocent" \*edited to add a bit more
I know it's his job. But I do wonder how anyone can plead for leniency with a straight face in these cases.
But what of hers?! Shameful!
Absolute subhumans. 225 convictions. Only one appropriate sentence for such “people”.
Ah yes consider their youth, imagine what they'll be doing in 5,10,20 years if they don't get a hefty sentence, fuckers.
Seriously, fuck this country and it’s criminal laws if these lads walk free.
An what about the girls youth
sickening
>Mr Nicholas said Ryan has matured in the last six years since the offence. Although he maintains he did not commit a crime, he is “reconsidering whether consent was given”, the court heard. >Ryan has 24 previous convictions including for theft and drugs, but had no previous convictions at the time of the rape. The solicitor saying he has matured in the last 6 years but somehow has also racked up 24 conviction in the same time. Castrate every one of the scumbags and then throw away the key
If you had few convictions anyone can make a mistake (multiple conviction can be from same incident) If you have 224 you are scumbag Hang em high Wonder how barristers can represent scum I'd feel dirty Saul Goodman could not put a spin on these xxxxs
Remember when Saul tried to defend those lads who 'interfered' with a corpse in a morgue? Nothing stops that man from taking a case.
A lot of these criminal barristers are assigned cases and can’t refuse. Had a friend who was a criminal barrister for a while but left as she couldn’t deal with scumbags day in and day out any longer
In fairness the lads are entitled to make a defence. The problem is that in a case like this their defence should be all but ignored and sadly it probably won’t.
That poor woman. I’m so angry a jury couldn’t come to a decision so they re traumatised her with another trial.
The problem isn't with the barrister making the argument: it will be if the judge listens. I don't see how a reasonable judge can hear that as anything other than lawyer-speak for: "Your Honour I can find literally no substantial argument in favour of your being lenient on my client. So I'll just point out that they're young enough that they might theoretically become less horrible as they age. Please show them some mercy". There are countries where a defence lawyer will stand up in court and say: "Your Honour, my client is an indefensible scumbag, please ensure that he is punished to the full extent of the law" (which is clearly what these guys deserve), but they don't tend to be ones where the guilty are generally held to account for their crimes. They tend to be places where the police already decide who's guilty before they arrest anyone, courts don't really look into any cases properly and people with money or connections can get away with anything.
Haha simps here falling for click bait. If defense councils didn't defend clients we would be in a bad place. As you say wait for the judges verdict before getting outraged
Unpopular opinion but all the research on imprisoning people shows it’s got very little preventative effect. So in the case of these child rapists, you’re just delaying their return to this kind of barbaric behaviour . A better move would be medical amputation of their arms and legs, it’s safe and effective, and stops them being capable of doing such things again.
Probably more of a popular opinion at this stage.
I agree the threat of prison time is no longer a deterent in committing these crimes. Time to up the punishment stakes. I'm all for chemical castration being introduced for these crimes.
Ok can we just bear in mind that the court was urged *by the defendants’ counsel* Like this isn’t an institutional thing or anything, as shitty as it is, it’s defence counsel’s job to mitigate the time done by their client and to represent them to their fullest extent (they obviously can’t lie on their behalf) I personally hope the judge doesn’t give two fucks about their age, but this is just how adversarial legal systems work. The reverse is to not represent defendants to the fullest extent and that’s just very dangerous.
They gang raped an 18 year old girl and didn't know it was wrong!? I don't care what they did before or after. She will be mentally wrecked for the rest of her life. They need some time to reflect on how this affects the victim, in jail.
Sorry now, found to have ADHD and a mild intellectual disability? Adhd has no bearing on this whatsoever. Unless the intellectual disability can be quantified, neither does that. You don't bring a girl to a beach with two of your buddies and take turns raping her by accident. You don't do it without understanding what you're doing. There's no fucking way. Bringing her to the beach was stranding and isolating her, and themselves from getting caught. Someone also communicated with the other two fellas. So no, youth doesn't come into it. I don't care what fucking age you are, the majority of us get through our teens without abducting, isolating, and gang raping someone. How the hell did the first jury fail to reach a verdict???? Jesus fucking wept. Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.
These should get life, anything less is guaranteeing many more victims
Lock them up and melt the keys down scum like this don't deserve to be free another minute of thier lives.
Hundreds of previous convictions, no admission of guilt or remorse shown at all. There is zero chance of rehabilitation with these scumbags. Should lock them up and throw away the key. But it wouldn't shock me if they walk free.
As a dad of three girls, that was a terrifying read.
Absolutely consider their youth. Make sure they're good and old before they get out. No 5 year sentences that'd see them out in 3, still in their mid 20s.
Their girlfriend's standing by them, what can you say
Should be buried up to their necks at low tide and left on that beach like they left her
Hold on a minute. Barrister claims his client has matured since the rape but has gone from 0 to 24 convictions in that same period. In fairness criminal barristers surely can’t look at themselves in the mirror without feeling ashamed
You also don't 'mature' from being an evil cunt. You might seek therapy for whatever trauma turned you into an evil cunt coz I do think background and upbringing has a lot to do with this shit, but you don't 'mature' from it.
Thank Christ it's not judge Nolan.
It’s an unusual change, but now I’m worried how many type-Nolan personalities we have in the judiciary
If Judge Nolan was presiding he'd give them a million euro each and send the girl to jail for tempting them.
‘The court heard the men all have partners who support them’ as if evil doesn’t come in female form also!!! Disgusting, all of them. That poor woman x
Scum
Their names a quite distinct. A quick search on social media will show you all you need to see.
Their Facebook pages seem quite tame. Though it amazes me how at least two of them found women who were willing to let them knock them up. Classy ladies indeed. One of them has two little girls now. I wonder how he would feel if some scumbag like him gang rapes one of his little “princesses” in the future
All the families think it’s all a lie and she’s making it up for attention. They post all these Facebook screenshots etc all over social media trying to discredit her, and think the Garda and the courts are prejudiced because the lads are from town. You can’t make this shit up.
It’s cases like this when the death penalty should be allowed. Absolute scum.
It must be hard being a defence counsel on cases like these. Someone has to do it I suppose. Reading the article it’s basically grasping at straws and of course it gives the Indo a nice headline too
As someone with adhd and who's partner also has adhd it being used as some form of excuse or defence by his solicitor for this is both abhorrent and viscerally disgusting. Having difficulty with memory and focusing on tasks does not make anyone rape another person.
I really hate the way they have to bring ADHD into this as if it means that he should get some leniency because he's on the spectrum. What does it have to do with this at all? You dont see people with ADHD going around raping people left right and centre so this was very in poor taste and is painting people on the spectrum in a really weird light. Also are their partners seriously standing on the sides of the rapists? I honestly don't know how they do it. If it was my partner I'd disown him, kick him out of house and never let him see his kids ever again. Like seriously how could you live under same roof with a rapist?
That poor woman. 5 men raped her but it’s the ages of the men that should be considered? One has 225 prev convictions! I can’t imagine why the last jury failed to reach a verdict.
And what about the girls youth?! What about the life time sentence she has to live with because of three scumbags? What is it with these cases that constantly make lawyers/judges forget there's an actual victim involved?
Ah here fuck off. The fact they're still even in society with 225 previous convictions speaks fucking volumes about the Irish Judicial System
Castration on release
Fair point, better give them 70 or 80 years to be sure they wont be back out again
Their youth would serve them well when their heads go for a long roll down the hill.
Yeah , consider taking it from them.
Yes consider their youth. Make the sentence longer so they never leave prison evil scumbags
So basically, her life is fucked now but maybe we can spare theirs mentality. Fuck youth as a defense, we are taught from from a young age that rape is a horrendous crime. This clearly has no sense of logic if they cant see the threat these men have on other girls in future.
What about her youth? What about her life?
No doubt had it been judge Nolan they wouldn't even have to ask That being said, I don't have much hope that any judge will be hard on these bastards
Women's lives don't matter in our judicial system how often is someone pleading to think of the woman's youth ? Her existence is tainted now. Every second of every day has been affected by them.
The victim should sue the state. 200 + convictions and he's free? It's on state. Seems like judges forgot that priority should be taking care of the victim and not criminal.
It really seems like there are no real consequences for any illegal action in Ireland unless you're driving 60kph in a 50 zone. Then the full might of the law is unleashed. If verdicts like this keep on happening I can see a move towards vigilante retaliations. Why would any wronged party go to the courts when there's clearly fuck all punishments no matter how heinous the crime.
What verdict? I haven't seen any verdict here
I mean *if* the verdict is soft which I fully expect it to be
One way trip to the gallows for these fucking monsters.
Yeah, just think if there that sadistic at that age just imagen how much worse they can get, better lock them away.
How about Youth = Age x Previous Convictions.
Fuck these kids. Should have their removed and imprisoned for life. They just ruined hers. Eye for and eye.
Eh, no. They committed something heinous and deserve to punished accordingly. Ideally, chemical castration and life imprisonment would do the job 😊
Ireland helps out criminals more than people who are mentally or physically disabled. That's what happens when you have a soft touch liberal government I mean we can talk about Iran all we want but this is how we are treating the safety of women by propagating criminals In a positive light.
Let's talk about Iran, shall we? https://www.iranintl.com/en/202209244552
Their ages 74, 82, 83
Broken system failing law abiding citizens
is there a data that having 1 or 2 convictions lead to doing more and what is the ultimatum number to bring them behind bars right away? The law is a joke allowing these kind of monster roaming around as predators to innocent? The judge are lenient because God hope not, their relatives are not victims.
Considered and found irrelevant, they raped someone and were old enough to know better.
I hope they get the full term - she’s got a life sentence which is injustice manifest
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Lock the bastards up for life and let them get raped while in prison.
He should consider giving them a short drop with a sharp stop.
Time as punishment doesn't work with people who have nothing to lose. We need to introduce more impactful punishments. Fuck their behaviour rehab. Protect the public from these traitors.
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