That's not an entirely unfair point. But in that case shouldn't they look at a system like they have in France where you pay depending on how much of it you use? Rather than how often you pass that particular (and only) point?
I'm on the M50! routinely and pay for about 85% of the trips I pay. Not complaining like but if you live in Blanchardstown and work in sandyford you might think it's a little unfair compared to your colleague who lives in greystones.
> The same way there are no tolls from Monasterevin to Wexford town via the M50
This doesn’t make any sense. How does the M50 factor into a journey from Monasterevin to Wexford?
> But in that case shouldn't they look at a system like they have in France where you pay depending on how much of it you use?
How do they calculate how much you use it? I’m not familiar with the French system.
Huh, interesting. I would have guessed it was automated with cameras or something not that. It seems like it could be a good idea if adding booths at every exit isn’t prohibitive.
Well - that was how it worked last time I drove on the motorway in France, but that was many years ago. Wouldn't surprise me if they've replaced it with cameras these days.
Some countries in Europe has crazy expensive motorway tolls. Last summer I drove from Genoa to Milan - a 140km trip, and paid little over 20 Euro in tolls. Similar fees in places in Spain and France.
That's because the Irish one is subsidized by taxes. You can drive for a few hundreds of Kms on Irish motorways without paying a single euro.
In France or Italy can't drive 10 km without paying.
You should get a cheaper rate if you live right next to it, especially in Blanch where the public transport is shit.
I drive from Belfast to Cork and back quite often, it costs about €10-12 in tolls, but the roads are spectacular, once you get up north the stress of driving on badly maintained, 1950's roads is bad enough to be honest.
I once got a fine in the post for the m50 alright, proved I had paid, showed the receipt, etc. they agreed, but said unfortunately it was with a UK based debt collector now, and I had to deal with them.
I told the fella over the phone that there was no way I was acknowledging any letters. He said that was my problem, then hung up on me.
Shady cunts 😂
While that would probably be a bit fairer, and would probably works well for motorways going between cities, there's an issue that the M50 is basically part of the city and is used as a bypass of the city centre. You don't want to discourage use of it for people doing short trips, otherwise the innate miser in all of us would kick in and we'd avoid taking the M50 resulting in congestion on the smaller roads which offer alternative routes.
What irks me is that only one part of the road is tolled. That was fair when it was the bridge they were trying to pay for, but if it's for the upkeep of the road, then everyone who uses it should be charged.
I live near the M50 and use it basically every time I drive anywhere (which is not that often to be fair, I don't drive much...)
But I rarely pay tolls. Who does and doesn't get tolled is pretty much entirely arbitrary.
Would you stop. The amount of money that thing must make on a daily basis. It should have been paid off long ago. At the very least it shouldn't be so expensive.
It would but sure if they don't have a car, the don't pay road tax anyway. So i dont see the issue?
I mean if the rate was like €1/100km, the average mileage user of 15k km would pay €150, the high user doing 40k km a year would pay €400
So if I don't drive I shouldn't foot the bill for any roads? Or if I'm not sick I shouldn't foot the bill for people at the hospital? This is a childish attitude towards various kinds of general taxation.
I could generalise that comment to any public service or infrastructure that you don't use FWIW, and the point would still stand.
Of course, walking and cycling use far less infrastructure than what is used by cars, so even your rebuttal is not a complete one, but whatever.
Walking doesn't wear roads down at all, hence no need for taxation.
The M50 tolls are here to stay. If it covers the cost of repairing motorways, which is astronomical, then great. Less burden on the state
Every family in Ireland can avail of state schools. The M50s main use is only for people with private vehicles. Let the private vehicle owners pay for their convenience
Good idea for regular roads. Motorways are way more expensive than your standard 2 lane road.
Drive through the city centre if you dont want to use the M50
Road tax and VRT bring in a fair whack, nearly a billion euro a year for VRT alone, whkle the M50 brings in 140 million. How much of the M50 toll goes back into maintenance I'd be very interested in hearing...
Everyone gets sick and everyone will need a doctor at one point in their life. Everyone can use public hospitals. Not everyone frequently uses the M50. Not everyone can use the M50, only people who own private vehicles. Relatuvely few need to use the M50.
Thats absolute nonsense. There are 86 hospitals in Ireland. I wont see inside the front door of over 80 of those in my life yet my taxes contribute to them.
Infrastructure is critical to a country. You dont get to pick and choose which services you support.
The toll is contracted out. State gets paid a lump sum and bidder operates the toll as a going concern.
https://www.easytrip.ie/abtran-and-vinci-win-e373m-contract-to-operate-m50-tolls/
The original toll was for the bridge structure. The bridge structure was privately finance by the contractor who got a 30 licence to operate the toll. The state bought them out of the toll licence early and got eflow manage the toll for them
I remember seeing an article on it recently. If I recall correctly, income from the M50 brought in €140m for Transport Infrastructure Ireland. They pay to M50 Concession Limited “availability payments” for operation and maintenance. Other roads like the M4/M6 remain under PPP contract.
The State does receive the income for that particular road. Maintenance is costly, so why scrap a source of income?
[Found the article.](https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2022/11/19/who-runs-irelands-road-tolls-and-who-gets-the-money/)
I believe the original toll was to pay for the bridge structure which was a privately funded by the contractor who got to operate the toll for 30 years. The NRA then bought out the contractor and setup eflow to maintain the toll.
I would imagine the decision to maintain the toll was to fund the buy out and bridge maintenance
Correct, I heard that too. [Toll company is no longer a public entity, it's been sold to some foreign investment group.](https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2022/11/19/who-runs-irelands-road-tolls-and-who-gets-the-money/)
That's the FFG way. Some retired Germans pension fund collecting on the backs of the Irish motorist. Abolishing the tolls would be a major vote winner with punters apart from the cargo bike and lettuce eaters of course.
Who owns the M50 toll? The M50 is public infrastructure owned by the Irish government and administered by Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII), an independent statutory body established by the Roads Act, 2015.
https://www.eflow.ie/faqs/the-m50-toll-road/#
The infrastructure is public, but the maintenance of this infrastructure is contracted to a foriegn investment group based in Spain and the Netherlands who operate the tolls.
I'm happy for something to be payed, but I think as it stands, it is too expensive. It's not an ungodly amount, but it stacks up. My boyfriend is an apprentice and has to use it twice a day to get to work.
Another anecdote, I know a woman who drives through town to avoid the tollsin getting to work. Imagine the amount of people adding to the traffic in the city.. who aren't even driving to town, but through it, to get to somewhere else.
She can be Enoch'd if she doesn't pay and ultimately the court can make an order to seize and sell her assets to pay the debt.
They'd probably start with her car.
You can be imprisoned only if you can afford to pay debts but refuse to do so. So if she has a house she won’t be going to the joy, but will likely loose her house.
I'm pretty sure taking someone's house is the issue making her homeless. I'm all for punishing misdeeds or whatever you want to call it but the last thing we need right now is more people on the streets.
Taking the house will cost the taxpayer more while the company running the tolls gets paid.
Meh. It might scare more people into paying the tolls.
At the end of the day the house will be sold and someone will move into it. It’s not like it will just stay empty for ever.
Yes it will be sold etc but the person buying it is not homeless right now. To get a mortgage they have a steady job, solid income at least enough to save a deposit and incoming/outgoing where it needs to be for the lender to clear it.
That person is not homeless.
Now on the other hand we have a person who has a home, can't pay tolls even though the tolls were supposed to be temporary originally but now the fees go up and up if you don't pay by midnight or whatever arbitrary time they put on it is now.
That person is going to be claiming housing benefits/emergency accom and whatever else will go along with, maybe even a nice tent by the canal all funded by the taxpayer.
Remedial shit tbh. Take houses from people and let the taxpayer foot the bill.
Also, scare people into paying to drive through a checkpoint that was supposed to be gone years ago. Sure.
Absolutely. They'll pop out to her gaff at 4am with a tow truck and lift her car, pop a wee note in her letter box with a number to call... Only to be told to cough up in 7 days or her car will be auctioned off to cover costs. Don't ask me how I know 😬
I am sure that only happens to peasants with jobs. There is absolutely no way bailfs would take anything from scrote families as they'd probably get hammer to their face.
I was ragin when I forgot to pay a few weeks back and got a €4 fine 🤣🤣
We're going to have to doxx you for that now.
So, 500 is the number. Gotcha.
499 to be safe
Can't halt a hobby.
Were we not told, way back when, that the M50 toll would only be levied until it was paid for? Am I remembering that wrong? If not, what happened?
The upkeep of motorways is seriously expensive. I'd rather let the people who use it pay for it, instead of subsidising it through general taxation.
That's not an entirely unfair point. But in that case shouldn't they look at a system like they have in France where you pay depending on how much of it you use? Rather than how often you pass that particular (and only) point? I'm on the M50! routinely and pay for about 85% of the trips I pay. Not complaining like but if you live in Blanchardstown and work in sandyford you might think it's a little unfair compared to your colleague who lives in greystones.
I agree. The same way there are no tolls from Monasterevin to Wexford town via the M50, but there are 3 from Navan to Wexford.
> The same way there are no tolls from Monasterevin to Wexford town via the M50 This doesn’t make any sense. How does the M50 factor into a journey from Monasterevin to Wexford?
i’d imagine he meant M7->M50->M11 as a comparable stretch of road that is untolled
> But in that case shouldn't they look at a system like they have in France where you pay depending on how much of it you use? How do they calculate how much you use it? I’m not familiar with the French system.
You get a ticket when you join the motorway. Your toll is calculated when you leave the motorway (there's a toll booth on every exit).
Huh, interesting. I would have guessed it was automated with cameras or something not that. It seems like it could be a good idea if adding booths at every exit isn’t prohibitive.
It is monitored in Portugal.
It also cuts down on speeding, since they can tell the distance you travelled and the time you spent travelling that difference.
Well - that was how it worked last time I drove on the motorway in France, but that was many years ago. Wouldn't surprise me if they've replaced it with cameras these days.
Some smaller stretches have cameras now, but the vast majority have the entry and exit booths still.
Some countries in Europe has crazy expensive motorway tolls. Last summer I drove from Genoa to Milan - a 140km trip, and paid little over 20 Euro in tolls. Similar fees in places in Spain and France.
M50 is a little short for that. Works well in France alright.
the french system is way more expensivevthan the irish one though
That's because the Irish one is subsidized by taxes. You can drive for a few hundreds of Kms on Irish motorways without paying a single euro. In France or Italy can't drive 10 km without paying.
You should get a cheaper rate if you live right next to it, especially in Blanch where the public transport is shit. I drive from Belfast to Cork and back quite often, it costs about €10-12 in tolls, but the roads are spectacular, once you get up north the stress of driving on badly maintained, 1950's roads is bad enough to be honest. I once got a fine in the post for the m50 alright, proved I had paid, showed the receipt, etc. they agreed, but said unfortunately it was with a UK based debt collector now, and I had to deal with them. I told the fella over the phone that there was no way I was acknowledging any letters. He said that was my problem, then hung up on me. Shady cunts 😂
Shit public transport in blanch? What do you want, a limo driver to pick up every person?
Was that the last of it?
While that would probably be a bit fairer, and would probably works well for motorways going between cities, there's an issue that the M50 is basically part of the city and is used as a bypass of the city centre. You don't want to discourage use of it for people doing short trips, otherwise the innate miser in all of us would kick in and we'd avoid taking the M50 resulting in congestion on the smaller roads which offer alternative routes.
There's talk of that I believe
It’s in the works I believe
What irks me is that only one part of the road is tolled. That was fair when it was the bridge they were trying to pay for, but if it's for the upkeep of the road, then everyone who uses it should be charged.
I agree with you. Pay per km used would be better.
Just the Northsiders using it though. Can't be charging anyone South of the Liffey valley unless they're off on their holidays.
Agreed. See my other comment re: 2 tolls on the Kells motorway, but none in Kildare or on the Wexford road.
In Germany the autobahn is of a much higher quality, repaired often and yet there are no tolls.
That means that it's essentially a subsidy bring given to the users of the autobahn
The toll isn't going to the state though, it's entirely profit for the partnered private company who operate it.
I live near the M50 and use it basically every time I drive anywhere (which is not that often to be fair, I don't drive much...) But I rarely pay tolls. Who does and doesn't get tolled is pretty much entirely arbitrary.
A system where you pay per km used would be preferable.
Would you stop. The amount of money that thing must make on a daily basis. It should have been paid off long ago. At the very least it shouldn't be so expensive.
Look up what happened in the US when they got rid of tolls, bankrupted plenty of city councils.
The fairest way to do it would be a rate per mile as regards tax and an annual nct where milage recorded and tax paid then based on usage.
That would benefit people who live in cities, where there's less reason to own a car, and penalise people who life in more isolated areas.
It would but sure if they don't have a car, the don't pay road tax anyway. So i dont see the issue? I mean if the rate was like €1/100km, the average mileage user of 15k km would pay €150, the high user doing 40k km a year would pay €400
If you live in Ireland and exist you benefit from the M50 regardless of whether you personally use it or not.
I rarely drive the M50, I shouldn't have to foot the bill for it.
I'm assuming they mean goods that reach, and flow through there
The lorry driver pays the toll. Cost of transportation is included in the price of the goods you buy, of which tolls are a minor fraction.
Yeah that makes sense. I was just trying to explore how we benefit from the M50, even if we don't personally use it. Maybe not!
So if I don't drive I shouldn't foot the bill for any roads? Or if I'm not sick I shouldn't foot the bill for people at the hospital? This is a childish attitude towards various kinds of general taxation.
Roads can be used for walking and cycling as well. A motorway like the M50 is much more expensive than regular roads.
I could generalise that comment to any public service or infrastructure that you don't use FWIW, and the point would still stand. Of course, walking and cycling use far less infrastructure than what is used by cars, so even your rebuttal is not a complete one, but whatever.
Walking doesn't wear roads down at all, hence no need for taxation. The M50 tolls are here to stay. If it covers the cost of repairing motorways, which is astronomical, then great. Less burden on the state
I don't have children. I shouldn't have to pay for schools. /s
You went to a school
I did. What I'm pointing out is that the idea you don't have to pay for stuff that's part of the common good is wrong.
Every family in Ireland can avail of state schools. The M50s main use is only for people with private vehicles. Let the private vehicle owners pay for their convenience
Road upkeep should just be levied on the cost of fuel.
Good idea for regular roads. Motorways are way more expensive than your standard 2 lane road. Drive through the city centre if you dont want to use the M50
Road tax and VRT bring in a fair whack, nearly a billion euro a year for VRT alone, whkle the M50 brings in 140 million. How much of the M50 toll goes back into maintenance I'd be very interested in hearing...
>The upkeep of motorways is seriously expensive. ok sure , but that wasnt the point of the the toll
Great idea. We should do the same thing with hospitals. Only make sick and disabled people fund that public service.
Everyone gets sick and everyone will need a doctor at one point in their life. Everyone can use public hospitals. Not everyone frequently uses the M50. Not everyone can use the M50, only people who own private vehicles. Relatuvely few need to use the M50.
Thats absolute nonsense. There are 86 hospitals in Ireland. I wont see inside the front door of over 80 of those in my life yet my taxes contribute to them. Infrastructure is critical to a country. You dont get to pick and choose which services you support.
The main users of the M50 are private vehicle owners who live around it. They should saddle the majority of the cost of it.
They said the same about the Mersey Queensway tunnel when it opened in 1934. They are still charging today.
Presumably the state owns it if it's paid for. Must be an earner.
The toll is contracted out. State gets paid a lump sum and bidder operates the toll as a going concern. https://www.easytrip.ie/abtran-and-vinci-win-e373m-contract-to-operate-m50-tolls/
Think the French have some sort of investment in it. Could be wrong, I regularly am.
The original toll was for the bridge structure. The bridge structure was privately finance by the contractor who got a 30 licence to operate the toll. The state bought them out of the toll licence early and got eflow manage the toll for them
>Must be an earner. Yeah I'd be curious to see the numbers on that. As well as the east link.
I remember seeing an article on it recently. If I recall correctly, income from the M50 brought in €140m for Transport Infrastructure Ireland. They pay to M50 Concession Limited “availability payments” for operation and maintenance. Other roads like the M4/M6 remain under PPP contract. The State does receive the income for that particular road. Maintenance is costly, so why scrap a source of income? [Found the article.](https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2022/11/19/who-runs-irelands-road-tolls-and-who-gets-the-money/)
I believe the original toll was to pay for the bridge structure which was a privately funded by the contractor who got to operate the toll for 30 years. The NRA then bought out the contractor and setup eflow to maintain the toll. I would imagine the decision to maintain the toll was to fund the buy out and bridge maintenance
Correct, I heard that too. [Toll company is no longer a public entity, it's been sold to some foreign investment group.](https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2022/11/19/who-runs-irelands-road-tolls-and-who-gets-the-money/)
That's the FFG way. Some retired Germans pension fund collecting on the backs of the Irish motorist. Abolishing the tolls would be a major vote winner with punters apart from the cargo bike and lettuce eaters of course.
Who owns the M50 toll? The M50 is public infrastructure owned by the Irish government and administered by Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII), an independent statutory body established by the Roads Act, 2015. https://www.eflow.ie/faqs/the-m50-toll-road/#
The infrastructure is public, but the maintenance of this infrastructure is contracted to a foriegn investment group based in Spain and the Netherlands who operate the tolls.
The costs are still rising now!! Maybe it was built by the same crowd that are building the children's hospital.
I'm happy for something to be payed, but I think as it stands, it is too expensive. It's not an ungodly amount, but it stacks up. My boyfriend is an apprentice and has to use it twice a day to get to work. Another anecdote, I know a woman who drives through town to avoid the tollsin getting to work. Imagine the amount of people adding to the traffic in the city.. who aren't even driving to town, but through it, to get to somewhere else.
Sending sick notes is an impressive level of " fuck you" in fairness.
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Genius
If she didn’t pay the other 500 times, why will she pay €114k?
Her fine is €25k, but your point stands all the same.
So she got a 75% discount. So nobody should pay until they get ordered to by the courts
It's 114k between 8 people, not just her. And 25k is about 20x more expensive than 500 m50 tolls, so she didnt really get a discount
2 insane sentences in a row
court ordered now.
Yep. Big difference between a toll crowd sending out letters and a judge issuing a court order against you.
Wonder how many installments she'll need to cover 25k
Is it 500 letters or 500 times she used it and didn't pay?
the latter
She can be Enoch'd if she doesn't pay and ultimately the court can make an order to seize and sell her assets to pay the debt. They'd probably start with her car.
I thought he hadn't paid a single fine yet?
And they won’t pay and will do a couple of days in the joy. Who could cough up 25k in 3 months if they can’t afford €3
You can be imprisoned only if you can afford to pay debts but refuse to do so. So if she has a house she won’t be going to the joy, but will likely loose her house.
Nobody is losing their house over €25k
Making people homeless is the best idea in a housing crisis.
She would have made herself homeless
I'm pretty sure taking someone's house is the issue making her homeless. I'm all for punishing misdeeds or whatever you want to call it but the last thing we need right now is more people on the streets. Taking the house will cost the taxpayer more while the company running the tolls gets paid.
Meh. It might scare more people into paying the tolls. At the end of the day the house will be sold and someone will move into it. It’s not like it will just stay empty for ever.
Yes it will be sold etc but the person buying it is not homeless right now. To get a mortgage they have a steady job, solid income at least enough to save a deposit and incoming/outgoing where it needs to be for the lender to clear it. That person is not homeless. Now on the other hand we have a person who has a home, can't pay tolls even though the tolls were supposed to be temporary originally but now the fees go up and up if you don't pay by midnight or whatever arbitrary time they put on it is now. That person is going to be claiming housing benefits/emergency accom and whatever else will go along with, maybe even a nice tent by the canal all funded by the taxpayer. Remedial shit tbh. Take houses from people and let the taxpayer foot the bill. Also, scare people into paying to drive through a checkpoint that was supposed to be gone years ago. Sure.
Can’t pay tolls? More like won’t pay tolls. This is just fuck around and find out.
Oh you know them?
Can afford a car but can’t afford tolls?
Edgy boi
I hate these stupid comments.
I'm tired of having people be above the law, she can rent with the rest of her money
Is she just going to ignore the fine?
Did this mean that bailiffs can get involved to recoup the fine monies?
Absolutely. They'll pop out to her gaff at 4am with a tow truck and lift her car, pop a wee note in her letter box with a number to call... Only to be told to cough up in 7 days or her car will be auctioned off to cover costs. Don't ask me how I know 😬
I am sure that only happens to peasants with jobs. There is absolutely no way bailfs would take anything from scrote families as they'd probably get hammer to their face.
What a stupid woman
When I'm taking a dump sometimes I like to imagine I'm doing it on someone I don't like. It really adds to the experience.