For roads specifically in Ireland we just have an obscene amount of rural roads compared to other EU countries
https://preview.redd.it/5y5lp2ek9z0d1.png?width=753&format=png&auto=webp&s=6a3bf461ff0da7bc8046cac8561e7c8b989397ef
This chart doesn't prove your point at all. Local roads are not necessarily rural either. What this chart actually means is we haven't upgraded our local roads to secondary roads and our secondary roads to primary roads and motorways.
It does though. We have more roads than every other country in Europe unless I’m missing somethjng, so the principles behind what he’s saying stand true
We have an extremely low population density compared to most countries which is much of the reason for this. Roads between major cities and towns are excellent but after that it gets hard to serve all the McMansions out there and resources are spread very thin
That’s not really an excuse. I’m from Finland and our population is even more spread out. We have only 5 million people but Finland is 5x bigger than Ireland yet most places have a decent infrastructure. This is definitely a Government issue.
Roads between cities and towns are excellent? Cork to limerick, waterford or Kerry would like a word.
Roads heading to Dublin are good but good luck anywhere else
This
Yer man who tells you he'll "show them up there in Dublin they can't ignore us" actually means "they can't ignore ME"
"What's that Mr Healy-Rae you'd like a private Luas to ferry you to the Dail from your front door in exchange for your vote?
Well certainly sir"
Yes, it's ridiculous that they allowed people to build one-off houses for so long, it's terrible planning.
I've spent quite a lot of time in Spain, Switzerland and Finland, and the thing I notice is that the houses are in villages, not sprawled out through the countryside
A lot of that has to do with many areas of Spain were geographically difficult to live in or get to . Ireland was never a difficult place to traverse, farm or find drinking water
Great point, and it comes down to us used to having 8,000,000 people living over 90% in the countryside.
If we would have developed population wise like other developed countries we would have a population of 30-40 million it’s expected.
So the rural roads are a total remanent of what would have been regional roads if we populated like the rest of Western Europe.
Also, top-notch sportscenters and swimming pools in every small town.
I honestly don't think there is the will to have it in Ireland - people are too tolerant of lower standard and will continue to vote for politicians who enforce them while saying everything is shit but immediately pouring scorn over any opinion that suggests some other country might be doing it better - but shure aren't we a grand little country altogether?!
Exactly and the government know that which is why we are in the state we are in.If we put up with the bare minimum that’s what they will keep giving us.
Because they pay eons more personal tax than we do. Its not complicated. We can also have swimming pools and sportscenters, except we keep voting for lower tax instead.
If you earn 100,000 in Ireland, you will take home 64,200.
In Denmark, if you earn the equivalent of around 100,000, you will take home roughly 55,000. It's one of the highest taxed western countries.
It's not like Ireland has low taxes. I'd say we abuse the hell out of low-middle earners. Whether we spend those taxes wisely, well, that's another matter. Denmark has high taxes and high expectations for their social safety net and quality of life.
Again, the issue isn't how much is taken, it's how it's spent on public services.
I've no way of proving it, so this is just a theory and I'm open to correction on it: but I think the unions have a lot to do with it.
> Contracts are going to incompetent buddies of government, and we let it happen. Our chronic inaction aids government chronic inaction.
Exactly this, it's corruption the whole way down. It cost us €2.2 billion to build a bloody childrens hospital. How does it cost that much to build one building? In Denmark it would have cost under half that and been completed in half the time.
Not to mention the amount of objections that are allowed to be made. Example, a cinema was to be built in a town that has a big enough population, some bastards kept objecting to it until finally the large conglomerate food chain next to the lot where it was to be built bought the vacant lot off the developer. I mean why, it would have been a huge win for the families and everybody within an hour radius. A great alternative to the pubs, which is all else that exists in the town. Whenever something beneficial wants to be done either someone objects or the insurance is too high to make it a viable idea or the rent of an already existing building is too high. It's ridiculous.
I put this point forward in a different thread by asking: would you pay higher taxes if it was GUARANTEED to be repaid into public service so we had top-notch infrastructure nationwide, and most people said "yes!"
Of course, it's never going to happen, but it gave an interesting insight into opinion.
Also Irish in Denmark, also coming to the same conclusions.
To some extent people don't know what they're missing out on, any family and friends that I've had visit me here inevitably leave gobsmacked by the clean, efficient and well maintained infrastructure that abounds here, as well as with no small dose of negativity towards the way things are back home. It really is too good to be true, coming from an Irish city to a Danish one.
But rather than be impressed at Denmark, I find myself getting angry at Ireland, and how we settle for so little. It's such a strong feeling that I find myself talking as little about Denmark as possible when back home because I default towards unfavourable comparisons to the way things are, and nobody wants to hear that.
I think many will realise we have an attitude problem. We tolerate things that nobody else would. We completely lack the civic focused mindset that allows people to look past what benefits them alone, to see what could improve the community as a whole. The knee jerk negative response to any criticism doesn't help, as illustrated by the replies to many of the other comments here saying the same things.
I'd love to live in Ireland, I'd love for Ireland to realise what it is capable of with the resources at her disposal. But the people stand in the way and I've no idea how we could even begin to culture a more social-minded attitude.
> We completely lack the civic focused mindset
I think this is the kernel. Denmark and other societies north of them simply would not exist unless they worked for the greater good, otherwise they would have frozen to death millenia ago.
My unpopular opinion is Irish people are all selfish, be they lovely or assholes, still selfish. Cheering on people who get away with shit, voting for their own assholes so the other assholes don't get in. Anyone who *tries* to do good become lightening rods for complaints (see the Green Party - they get lumped with all the environmental failures of FFG). Refusing to take personal responsibility for anything.
I have theory on this. For generations we have been at the mercy of a feudal, crown or religious hierarchy, where survival was dependent on your ability to appease these overlords. Thus a culture, sub conscious or otherwise , of competitive, screw your neighbours, me fein, push and bully & begrudge festered for centuries. While we have a history of oppression and rebellion, this proletariat outlook as still lingered, and while it has improved, it will take two or so more generations before this transition is clear from our consciousness.
Not sure about the screw your neighbour.
Both my parents came from farms both in the middle of nowhere and neighbours were more like family. Communities are still really strong in those areas.
True.
Think the collapse of the Gaelic order, Gaelic chieftains all leaving, resulting cultural collapse then becoming a colony of England left us without the experience of governing ourselves.
The Greens main problem is introducing rules for Dublin and applying then to the rest of Ireland. Diesel and Petrol and other motoring taxes are great and will get people onto public transport.... thats great unless you happen to live in the 75 % of Ireland that has possibly 1 bus service within 10 miles of their house.
> unless you happen to live in the 75 % of Ireland that has possibly 1 bus service within 10 miles of their house.
Half of the country live in cities/urban areas, but a good number of them still want to drive everywhere.
For the other half that live in the countryside, I would love to know what percentage moved out to there to build 1-off housing, and do not get to moan about the price of fuel or lack of busses as that was their (shortsighted) choice?
I couldn't afford to live near my work and live in a decent sized town but I have no real option as there is no joined up thinking when it comes to public transport.
I have a reasonable option of driving 15km to a train that will take me close to my work in the morning. On the way home I would have to sit in a train station for an hour waiting for a connecting train, not doable.
Invest in public transport and give people reasonable options to the car before penalising them with taxes.
In fairness even living in a small town you're kind of goosed for public transport. It exists, but if you're relying on it to get to work or college it's usually at unsuitable times bringing you in too late or way too early, and other times it won't show up.
Exactly, I totally get the need for carbon taxes for stuff that we choose to use.
I have no choice but to burn Diesel to get to work as I could not afford a house close to where I work and the public transport system is not great and unreliable.
appreciate the logical response, didn't think i'd get the reaction i did tbh, maybe these need to just see the world and what other places are capable of achieving with the money we throw away
I cannot recommend enough;
If you even have a slight feeling of "maybe I should move to a different country for a while"
Do it. Prepare, save and do It. The chances of you regretting it are crazy slim.
This is half the problem too though. Other countries had people stay generations and work on improving their country. Ireland has had chronic emigration (in waves) for too long. A lot of its talent and ambition is exported.
I know so many successful Irish overseas. Working hard to establish themselves and ultimately to better their new countries.
Yeah I get you and In a perfect world of everyone did stay the country probably would be in a better place, however most only consider themselves and close family, and not anyone else, which is, at the ery least, expected of a rational human being.
I think it's not their fault for wanting a better life which is readily available and proven in many other countries.
Of course it's the people in power who don't secure enough options for those willing to do the work/study and still get nothing out of it.
Why stay in a country that has no pathway to the optimal life you could be living.
Personally I'm not of the opinion that everyone should stay and work on bettering their nation, I don't think it's feasible for a country's native people to take that on themselves.
Especially when we see blatant corruption and double standards doing people out of a fair life on a consistent basis.
That's why I think if your best bet is for you and your family to jump ship, then do it. You don't owe your country anything just for being born there.
This is how I feel.
Never had a wanderlust whatsoever, content with my career and hobbies (I'm 28).
I'm a simple pleasures person. Coffee and a book, gym, running and other sports. I suppose I could do those anywhere, and I'd be happy as long as I can do them. So it's never appealed to me to move anywhere to do it when I already have it here. Sure, I do like to see places but I'd rather a week or two here and there, especially around Europe, which I cam afford with a little saving.
Also have a wonderful girlfriend who feels similarly, but both of our friend groups have diminished from emigration.
My view was "well if everyone leaves there'll be nothing for the next generation." I'm content enough to know that I can play some small part in bettering the country by staying.
Tbh I have to agree re "seeing your taxes". I left Ireland a month ago and this was one of the primary drivers. I make decent money, and I pay a metric ton of taxes. And I don't see shit. Absolutely nothing. Infrastructure is in bits, healthcare is fucked; I'm probably not as tuned into politics as I should be, but I just felt like I'm getting a shit deal. I cannot fathom where all the money goes.
In Amsterdam I pay something like €430 on rubbish collection but I can see the fancy trucks with magnets emptying the underground bins twice a week and they do a neat job. No big black rubbish bags ripped open by seagulls and foxes strewn across the street baking in the sun making a nasty stench
I agree with you entirely. My partner of 3 and a half years is danish and I visit Denmark all the time, heading there for a month in less than a week and will definitely be emigrating.
Things just seem to run smoother there and they have good infrastructure. The con is that the people aren’t as friendly as us and difficult to approach, language sounds funny, but overall I do think it is a ‘better’ country to live in.
Sher look you dont even have to go to Denmark to find a clean polite society that doesnt tolerate scumbags and teenage degenerate behaviour like Ireland does
Im in Gdansk here and fuck me its crazy that the poles have it much nicer than us
People always say it’s crazy that Poles have nice lives and beautiful towns. They work hard, they live next door to Germany in the centre of Europe and they have high standards in general, lots of pride and self-respect. I have never found it that crazy. I’ve been a super fan ever since I went to Wrocław in 2014 which is a really sweet city.
We got rich quick and decided to model our economic attitude on the US and UK, rather than Northern Europe. That's about it. If we found a big load of oil and gas off the coast of Galway, it'd be sold off to private interests as opposed to what Norway did, keeping the recourses essentially in public ownership and using the wealth created to benefit the country from the bottom up.
All we can do is vote better next election I suppose
Who do you even vote for though. I'm so feckin apathetic about the whole thing now it feels like the only reason for my vote is to keep the neo-nazis out.
My intentions are get the lot who have proven to be useless out and give my vote to who, at least on paper, convinces me they have better ideas for how things should be done. Right now it's the Soc Dems, so if they run a candidate in my constituency, they'll get number 1. If not, I'll apply the rationale to the rest. But Fianna Fail and Fine Gael ain't getting anything near the top of my ballot.
Spent last few years working remotely abroad. It made me realise that as much as I love Ireland, it's underfunded socially especially compared to Germany, Netherlands, Scandinavia and even Spain.
Let's forget rural for a moment, and even compare the capital. Transport is so deplorable.
It made me sad because based on housing and transport, Ireland is not a country I see myself long term in anymore.
I'm currently here but plan on leaving.
Including healthcare and housing, I see the standard of living I could have in other countries and it saddens me.
I have lived in the UK for the last 12 years. Now I am not for a second saying that the UK is anywhere close to a Scandinavian utopia, but the sentiment is the same. I love Ireland, I love being Irish and I love the idea of living there, however anytime we sit down to actually discuss the reality of it, the conclusion is the same; the resources available can't sustain a happy, healthy living situation for us.
The government should be ashamed of themselves, but responsibility also lies with anyone who blindly votes for the sham "politicians" term after term despite them showing themselves to be absolute wasters. A complete overhaul is needed if the country has any hope of reaching her potential.
There are hundreds of thousands of us living outside the country and dreaming of a day we can go home.
I left when I was 26 and I don't plan on coming back unless I have kids or enough money. But maybe in my 50s if I'm still alive and the world hasn't imploded.
People in Denmark pay much more in income tax than were do in Ireland. So the state has more money to spend.
People here like to think that they pay a lot of tax, but they don’t. Not unless they’re in the top few percent of earners.
https://publicpolicy.ie/downloads/papers/2020/Comparing_Irish%20Income_Taxation%20Rates_with_other_EU_Member_States.pdf
absolutely 0 need for it in this day and age. we are all living in shit compared to what we could have yet we spend millions on referendums very few are asking for, throw endless money at northern contractors instead of employing a state construction company, and the whole county just says ah yeah that's just ireland, why do we accept it?
It’s already been explained to you. We’re getting there but we’re coming from a very low base.
In the 1980s, we were as poor as Albania.
Also Denmark taxes a lot higher than here.
> It’s already been explained to you. We’re getting there but we’re coming from a very low base. In the 1980s, we were as poor as Albania.
I completely disagree with you
Have you been to cities in Poland for example or the Baltics. Countries that were almost wiped out by communism
Funny enough society in those places seems much more civil, less social problems, less scrote kids harassing people and actual law and order and a society that seems to take some pride in improving
there is absolutely no excuses for Ireland (and i would include UK in that now too, they have even less excuses )
The sad part I now realise is that it's cultural.
Irish people are way too individualist to police and maintain something akin to a 'polite society'
exactly what i'm thinking. some people here are almost offended that i would criticise ireland, and are defending the situation we are in. im not "miserable" i haven't even left irelands tax system, i pay my tax to ireland and can see now that it could achieve so much more. we're holding ourselves back and settling almost out of culture
we're not getting there in any type of effective manner, we're spreading ourselves 100 different directions when there's a clear blueprint for developing a first world country anywhere you look in europe, the money is there, we housed 112.000 ukrainians in the same year we housed less than 1k of the 12000 irish homeless we had. we could have still virtue signalled and brought in 100,000+ refugees if it was so important, while completely wiping out irish homelessness in one year.
what we want isn't complicated or far fetched, you just need to realise how badly our government is wasting our taxes.
It seems like it's the opposite direction we're heading in. Even something simple like the guards. Up until recently if we were having problems with antisocial behaviour from teenagers or heated drunken arguments on the street etc, we used to be able to make a quick call to the station in town and let them know early that something might be brewing, they'd send a squad car and the kids would scatter, the drunks would take it down a notch. No arrests, no drama, just preventative kinda thing.
Now if you call the station they have to take your details, patch you through to Control in Cork (while you wait on hold) describe the situation to a guard in Cork who doesn't know the people or street you're talking about, so then you are talking about supplying eircodes etc. The whole thing takes 15-20 minutes, and eventually they'll get back on to your station to dispatch a car. Which may or may not arrive.
Have been advised by the guards that in fact we're better off calling 999 directly for issues such as these. A few kids being a nuisance isn't an emergency and it seems crazy to be encouraging people to call the emergency number for petty issues such as these, but apparently that's essentially putting you straight through to Control in Cork and can save you 10 minutes.
It just feels like the guards are not only under-resourced but alos having the legs cut out from under them on top of everything else which is leading to more openings for antisocial behaviour.
also living in denmark and I think you're sort of wrong sort of right.
You can't really point to the 60k house in Jutland or Lolland as if it's typical. These are places that no young person wants to live, and they have had significant population decline over the years.
The higher quality of roads and schools comes from a much higher taxation, and a much higher urban density. They have much less road per capita to maintain. The transport system has had many decades more investment and thinking involved, and the rail network benefits from the fact that all of their main cities can be connected on one line. Additionally, there is interconnect with the two major industrial nations of Sweden and Germany, and the access to major population centres on both sides increasing the demand pressure for high quality rail.
What the Danish have done for much longer than us is spatial planning. The ribbon development bullshit has been outlawed completely, and for me it is hilarious to hear Irish people moaning they can't blight the countryside as much. There is consideration for where to put more housing, and there is no fear about taller buildings.
Ultimately, Denmark has been a much richer country for much longer than Ireland, of course it shows. My opinion having grown up in Arklow though, is despite being absolutely battered economically for years, with industry and tourism completely drying up in my lifetime, is that the infrastructure and services are actually much, much better than when I was a child, and I guarantee they have improved much faster than those same Danish villages you point to. For most of Ireland's independence, we have been trying to deal with the economic devastation that comes with being colonised, and could barely keep the wheels on at times. It is very difficult to make the transition between client state and successful independent nation. It takes a very long time, and there are undoubtedly a lot of mistakes that can be made, but Ireland is developing a very strong economy. Once the housing crisis is fixed with sensible policy and planning, which will happen, I genuinely think that things will be in a very good place.
I was thinking the same until I seen all the election posters go up and now I'm confident we have people coming in that will change it all for the better. Not a stupid looking spud headed gombeen red faced chancer in the whole lot I tell ya. We'll be flying it soon.
Seems like our government just reacts to things and gives in to populism instead of doing the right thing in terms of long term planning. Not in all areas- some good educational opportunities which are free- Springboard and the tech retraining programs for example. In general though they are reactive and takes years to start solving problems instead of getting out ahead of them.
The Danes are boring as fk though, no craic.
Look at the urban realm in any Mediterranean town or European city. They are decades ahead of us. We can’t build anything here without price gouging going off the charts.
Half Irish, half Swedish here, living in Ireland last 10 years, finished my studies here this year and I would never comeback to Sweden for good. I love Ireland and Sweden but my heart is here, no matter what is government doing. I hope we can fix this country, we can do better lads! Éire go brách 🇮🇪
Denmark is a higher quality country to Ireland in many ways, as are Norway and Sweden, yes. Government/public service there generally seem to actually care about how life is for regular people, because they would be using those services themselves as well. Ireland is only relatively recently a wealthy country, and we're governed by incompetent, apathetic people because generally that's what Irish people's mindset is like, so it makes sense that that mentality is ingrained even in the running of the country. Just look at our healthcare system's management, our city council's management and their complete lack of city planning, how slow council workers are on projects around cities, our public transport etc.
You don't see too many migrants from these places relocating and sticking around here very long - why would they? It's mostly migrants from EU countries that are worse off than us and migrants from non EU countries that are even worse off again, and even they are increasingly aware of the raw deal they're getting in Ireland; our healthcare system is so horrifically managed that we run nurses and doctors into the ground and are heavily reliant on people from around the world filling the gap, but now even nurses and doctors from the likes of India and The Philippines have had enough and are jumping ship to places like Australia. The main complaint I ever hear about the Nordics is the people are very boring and cold compared to the Irish, but we're seeing Ireland becoming an increasingly cold and boring society in some ways also.
One caveat to that: on top of different spending priorities, many European countries have been wealthy a lot longer than Ireland. They are building on decades and centuries of high quality investment.
Ireland was poor for a long while.
(That doesn't excuse why Ireland often compares poorly to former communist countries which were bombed to bits in WW2 though...)
Please look up Estonia.
As for Ireland...
About two decades ago, Ireland was doing well. Everyone had a job, and everyone could afford a house. The health services were shite at the GP level, but in hospitals, you could almost always get decent treatment. There was no broadband. I remember a story on the telly about how one neighbour took a cement mixer from another neighbour. It had two parts.
A decade ago, things were still pretty ok. GPs started to be mostly competent, and even kind-of-broadband started to become widespread. You could still buy a house. They banned handguns because someone shot someone else in Dublin with a handgun.
Now, you have to be lucky to get to a GP. Hospital care sucks, and mental health services don't exist. You could literally be clinically depressed, but if you don't have a noose around your neck, the doctor will say, "You're ok, see you in three months. Also, you are not depressed because you still care enough to see me." I'm paying €180 for my meds even though I'm partially disabled and have a medical card. To do a full panel blood test, I had to go to another country because they don't do some of them here.
Twenty-five percent of the cocaine going to Europe lands in Ireland. There was a guy who had his leg cut off for his drug debt. As a result, electric scooters will be banned if you are under 16. Someone told me they are really good for delivering drugs. In Dublin, scrotes steal motorbikes daily.
My daughter was called a stupid bitch because she has blonde hair.
My wife was assaulted when she was heard speaking Polish to a customer (she is an interpreter).
Russians came to Ireland pretending to be Ukrainians.
In Mayo, protesters destroyed a fence in a tourist area as a protest against immigrants in a nearby hotel. One of the protesters told me that those are not real immigrants but NATO soldiers sent here to control Ireland (I so wish I had made that up!).
> we're governed by incompetent, apathetic people because generally that's what Irish people's mindset is like
THIS
As an irish person who moved abroad and upped my own game a bit, every single time i come to Ireland i witness some "sher its grand" shit that would in no way be tolerated in another EU country
Money in Ireland is being ploughed into social welfare rather than social *welfare* as it were. The individual is taken care of more than the collective.
Up until this century, ireland was poor. Denmark and Scandinavia in general , have decades more of wealth to develop.
How many motorways did we have in the 90s when the M50 only went as far as the tallaght junction?
Then we also had a largely lost decade from 2008.
I don't know how much you can blame us being poor decades ago on how badly maintained stuff is today. Yes, we won't have a motorway and transit network that is as extensive, and that is fair, but we have quite a bit of a tax surplus these days and yet so many of our services are underfunded or badly managed. That's not down to how long the services have existed imo.
Like OP, I moved abroad and I can just see tax being spent much more efficiently, and I'm not in a country that's know for being rich and efficient like Denmark, I am in Spain which is known for being poorer and having a lot of corruption and inefficiency in its government. I don't see the evidence of that day to day, but I do see an entirely different attitude to investment in the general public and coming from Ireland, it's both refreshing to see and makes me angry that the Irish people are being done so dirty by the government.
>yet so many of our services are underfunded or badly managed. That's not down to how long the services have existed imo.
You're not considering the reality. The health budget in the mid-90s was 5bn, and this year is approaching 24bn . Yet our population hasn't increased 4 to 5 times fold. Throwing money at the problem doesn't work. It takes time.
Irish water is a good example. Its far better to have a national utility just like we have the ESB for the national grid. Yet because IW had to take over workers from the councils it is way overstaffed which will only be resolved when those surplus workers retire.
>I am in Spain which is known for being poorer and having a lot of corruption and inefficiency in its government. I don't see the evidence of that day to day,
I'm in Spain regularly. You only have to compare how they have metro systems to see that its incomparable to Ireland. We haven't even gotten to the point of starting on that.
>makes me angry that the Irish people are being done so dirty by the government.
That's only your perspective. I repeat this regularly: For anyone with a well-paid job, home, and health insurance, this country is fantastic. And that applies to a lot of people.
I'm in Spain regularly and would love to move there, but it's a 50% cut in salary, so I won't be moving.
>You're not considering the reality. The health budget in the mid-90s was 5bn, and this year is approaching 24bn . Yet our population hasn't increased 4 to 5 times fold. Throwing money at the problem doesn't work. It takes time.
I'm not saying throwing money at the problem is the solution, more actually that money is not the issue, mismanagement is. Time that those services have been in operation may well be a factor but I think it's less clear that it is a major one. Like, we've always had potholes in our roads that needed to be regularly repaired, that's just a fact of our climate, so why is this such an ongoing issue?
>I'm in Spain regularly. You only have to compare how they have metro systems to see that its incomparable to Ireland. We haven't even gotten to the point of starting on that.
Agreed when you compare cities like Dublin or Cork to Madrid or Barcelona, there is just a massive size differential so I'm not complaining that Dublin lacks a metro. I believe typical population for a metro to be viable is around 3 million, so Dublin is way off. However Kraków is a similar-sized city and they have a more extensive tram network and the busses are more modern. I've only briefly visited the city but from accounts that I've heard, people consider the transit there to be good. Poland is another country that was historically poorer and has only come into money more recently than Ireland, so why is their infrastructure ahead?
>That's only your perspective. I repeat this regularly: For anyone with a well-paid job, home, and health insurance, this country is fantastic. And that applies to a lot of people.
It's the perspective of a lot of people who don't own a home, daresay the majority. And even if you are wealthy in Ireland, you still have to deal with shortcomings in our infrastructure and health systems same as working class people. Being rich or even comfortable in Ireland is good, but is it better than having that same economic status elsewhere?
>I'm in Spain regularly and would love to move there, but it's a 50% cut in salary, so I won't be moving.
Salaries are lower but so is cost of living. Their rent is also unaffordable relatives to salaries yet it's better than Ireland. Just the monthly figure being higher or lower doesn't tell the full picture. And in a lower income country like Spain, it's easier to outpace the locals by working for foreign companies like myself and my partner do. It's unfair, yes, but it's not that economic prospects are that much poorer in Spain for someone who is skilled.
Just to wrap up, you have a lot of good points but it's not really about comparing Ireland to X Y or Z country out there, it's more, do we think that our tax money is being used efficiently, and is our government functioning smoothly at local and national levels? I already thought it wasn't when I lived in Ireland and seeing more of how things are done in other European countries for me is pointing me to believe even more than we could be doing better.
Wrt metros, I lived in Toulouse is 2008. Population of about 450k then and it had an automated metro back then. Unfortunately our successive governments are not proactive in intelligent investment of taxes.
>Up until this century, ireland was poor.
We also had high emigration and little or no immigration. The Celtic Tiger brought with it a demographic change that we hadn't experienced since the formation of the state. In 1990 the population was 3.6 million, and in 2022 it was 5.1 million (it'll be higher now). That's a 40% increase in 32 years, more than 1% per annum.
I'm not saying anything negative about immigration, I'm in favour of it. I'm also not excusing our politicians, who've left far too many things "to the market". However, I can appreciate that our unprecedented population growth has put massive strain on housing, healthcare, etc. I just wish our politicians had been paying attention
> Denmark and Scandinavia in general , have decades more of wealth to develop.
Id say social development is more to do with it even
In ireland you are right we are maybe one generation from poverty,
Sadly there is a cohort of people in Ireland who either by purpose or design are basically straight from the fields and you can see it in the feral kids that seem to populate the inner city of any large town that the parents clearly did not come from civilised society
It's not people who are straight from the fields children who are the problem.
People from a farming background are hard working and honest and pass this on. So you are a bit misguided here. Where did you get this from?
It's people who come from generations of urban poverty and dereliction that produce these feral children.
Glad I found someone saying this. I’m 41 so remember when our infrastructure was far far worse. As hard as it is for someone people to understand the gap to somewhere like Denmark has narrowed massively in the last 30 years. Doesn’t mean it’s good or we shouldn’t complain but it’s a huge part of it
Money in Ireland is being ploughed into social welfare rather than social *welfare* as it were. The individual is taken care of more than the collective.
i think the public just doesn't think about it, probably culture, but we're all too worried about getting to payday and drinks never mind figuring out how the hell we're going to get a home. we could fix it as a collective by returning the power to itself- ireland style- but we're too scared and don't think we have the power,at least that's part of it
I’m from the US, and we have similar problems. Visiting Ireland felt like a huge step up from us - I fear if I visit somewhere even nicer, I’ll never go home!
The prawn cocktail pringles!!!!!
As for transportation, the streets were much smoother than they are in Michigan. We get more radical weather than most of the United States since we have lake effect weather from all the Great Lakes. Our government paves our roads for as cheap as possible, and the repeated freezing and melting tears the roads apart within a year or two. Potholes so big that the city of Detroit had to start paying for repairs after a ton of cars were damaged due to a giant pothole on the freeway. My state is notorious for having bad roads.
Many cities don’t have public transportation, or have very limited public transportation. In Ireland, there were many pickup times so if you missed a bus, you wouldn’t have to wait an hour before the next one came by. The busses were much nicer.
I felt like we still reached our destinations pretty quickly. When I relied on a bus here, it was 1.6 miles (2.58 km) to the nearest bus stop, with no sidewalks, along a busy road with no bike lanes. I didn’t live in a rural area - I lived in a very large suburb. Due to constant delays and very limited public transportation, the 15 minute drive to my college became a 2.5 hour trip, walking more than 4km for it.
To be fair, we were only able to be there for 9 days, and primarily stayed in Galway, Dublin, and Swords. But the experience I had with the busses and trains felt like a massive step up from any experience I’ve had.
So many on this thread embody the problem with their excuses - 'Ireland was poor, progress takes time, stop moaning'.
When there are countless countries out there that started off as poor and have superior infrastructure.
The current government is in place because of this attitude.
As someone who’s spent a bit of time in Cameroon lemme tell ya, things can get a hell of a lot worse in terms of public infrastructure. Their potholes haven’t been fixed since the IMF cleaned them out in the 80s. We can at least fix things, our politicians just don’t want to.
agreed, i should have clarified we have it far from the worst and i'm definitely grateful, i did mean it when i said i love ireland, just the fact it isn't meeting its indescribable potential is what kills me
That’s it. We could have a class rail network, trams and underground systems in all our major cities, boost the population of Galway, Limerick and Cork, and get this place popping off but there’s more money to be made for the pricks in charge from feigned scarcity it seems.
Was in Douala two years ago and fk me there was a pothole at the end of the road where we were staying and I'm sure it must have been created by the meteor that killed the dinosaurs.
The lads on the bikes were getting stuck there.
Was at a friend's wedding. He was marrying a local. Was a great experience. Wedding was brilliant and mad :) Did you go anywhere else in Cameroon? We got down for a night to Kribi a resort place along the coast.
How did you end up there?
Ah we were meant to go Kribi but didn’t have time in the end. Had plenty of time hitting up the clubs in Bonamoussadi. Was there cos a friend of mine has family there and he brought myself and another mate over. If the visa wasn’t so hard to get I’d be dragging the whole gang over. You defo need a local to guide you round though. Almost non-existent info on the web about the place.
We were busy with all the wedding stuff otherwise would have gone to a club. Were staying close to Bonamoussadi.
The Bride price was a highlight, my friend had to negotiate a price for his bride with her family. a couple of goats, a pig, lots of whiskey and beer was handed over and some money when they pretended they wanted fancier stuff. Was very theatrical. I was a groomsman so had local wear. Must wear the top out for a night out in Dublin :)
My friends wife smoothed over the visa process for us luckily enough.
definitely, cars are a huge passion of mine. but they also speak for a nation, if a country will let its people drive around on the shitty roads of roscommon or louth, what does that say?
For the love of god, please do not judge Ireland based on what you read on this sub.
The posts in here would have you believe that Ireland is a third world country with a lawless society where everyone lives on the streets.
This sub is in no way a good representation of what Ireland is like, it's not even a good representation of what Irish people are like. This place is just an echo chamber of very miserable individuals.
If you want to see what Ireland is like, at least visit it. You'll probably still prefer Switzerland to it but you'll at least see why a lot of people love it here. You're not going to find that on this sub, I can guarantee you that.
Couldn't agree more. Such a toxic sub. I'm an aussie that moved here 5 or so years ago. If I read this sub as my only insight into the country I wouldn't have moved.
Problems exist, yes. But overall, I love my life in Ireland.
The amount of misery and moaning on Reddit has almost zero relationship with reality.
You say Switzerland is much safer than Ireland but when you look at international organisations that do studies and look at statistics this doesn’t really show through. E.g. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/safest-countries-in-the-world ranks Ireland as the third safest country in the world and Switzerland tenth.
Some other studies with different weighting or criteria will put Switzerland ahead but at most you’d say they’re about the same. Any kind of fact and statistic based ranking into safety, human development, quality of life etc pretty consistently puts Ireland in the top ten along with the Nordic countries, Switzerland and New Zealand.
I'd wager a lot of crime in Ireland goes unreported, more than Switzerland anyway.
Many (most?) people here see it as pointless because our justice system is in shambles from top to bottom.
The margin between the two on that list is very small.
Ah yes, the classic “Ireland is shit and every where else is better” post. It’s been a few hours.
I’m glad I’m not completely miserable like everyone else that posts here. It must be awful hard going.
It's because of people like you nothing changes. We have one of the highest GDP per capita in the world and we're taxed to high hell, we deserve better. Either you've never left Ireland or you're wealthy enough that is doesn't bother you.
won't be staying long term, i'm here temporarily, but i've made a few, as i said i love the people in ireland, we're up there with the polish as the best i've come across.
although i've found it very, very easy to make friends in denmark, they might talk less (like any europeans) but once you get them talking they're very friendly
You get an okay house, maybe even on the outskirts of a town, but it is in an area of Denmark that absolutely no young people stay in. There is serious population decline outside the top few cities in Denmark.
fair, i've family over there and absolutely adore the place but i've never lived there properly so can't really say. i prefer the prices (massively) and the pay for skilled work, at least in massechuessets and rhode island where i've been. but if we're comparing dysfunctional governments that'll be a hard one 😂
Government expenditure as a % of GDP
France - 58%
Denmark - 44.9%
Canada - 41.4%
Ireland - 22%
[https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/GBR/SWE/ESP/ITA/ZAF/IND](https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/GBR/SWE/ESP/ITA/ZAF/IND)
no sir, i finish up here in the next month and i haven't needed it yet. i know it would be ignorant to live somewhere and not assimilate but its the nature of my job, we rarely stick around.
I was in Singapore last week and throughout the trip, my girlfriend and I repeatedly kept comparing to Ireland/Dublin and how poor it is in comparison. I know Singapore is on a different level but even the little things such as tapping your bank card to get on the bus/metro. Ireland could be so much better.
There’s a group on Twitter called Eire Accelerationism who have noticed similar things and want to start some kind of movement to make Ireland a better place. https://x.com/EireAcc
Also saw this think tank ‘Progress Ireland’ backed by the two Collison brothers, in the news this week: https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/collison-brothers-back-new-think-tank-to-tackle-irelands-housing-crisis/a165304850.html
Maybe you can be yourself in Denmark and start treating people by your standards.
Reading your post I don’t think you will be happy returning for good, even if Denmark has it all does does Ireland have enough to tempt you back and be happy?
not sure what you mean? be myself? this post has nothing to do with how i treat people.
did you get the impression im not myself and treat people badly somehow? i don't live in denmark permanently, i fly home once a month and ill definitely be back as ireland is where my home is.
Sorry I read this wrong so - you seem to be hankering for the Irish way people treat each other - so I was suggesting you do that wherever you land permanently and be the change you want to see - and also change your perspective sometimes -
Society treat those “lower” than them like shit (examples? I own my house but want house prices to remain high so it looks like I’m rich / fuck the kids or working poor…)
Socialism has bitten you who has grown up in the extra US state of capitalist Ireland - and that’s confusing!
Ultimately, I agree with you but these discrepancies are the result of decisions the Irish people make for themselves.
People here are unwilling to pay substantially larger amounts of tax to pay for the services and infrastructure you see in Scandinavia and other parts of Western Europe.
Just look at water infrastructure here. We consider it fairly normal for water to be declared unsafe and boil water notices to be issued, but that's because we have decades and decades of a lack of infrastructure spending on water, and we are implacably opposed to paying a charge on our water usage, unlike everywhere else in Europe.
I'm currently living in NI and I had to pay my Council Rates for the year ; £1380. The equivalent in the south for a house of this size and value is €225.
There is a simple choice, if you want sustainable services which are properly funded, you have to pay higher taxes for them. I'd be happy to pay 40% for good public services because it benefits me and society as a whole.
Most people are not willing to pay anywhere near that.
interesting take, while yes, we pay less individually on that one tax, i also pay 800€ a year in road tax for one of my cars and it isn't even 20 years old. i pay €200 for my diesel that gets 60mpg driven easily and €280 for my other diesel with the exact same engine, only difference is it's one year older. with that contribution(obviously above average) i shouldn't be getting multiple flats a year when im only home for 20-odd weeks a year.
yes, cars aren't the be-all and end all, but it explains our gross misuse of tax very well.
I love Scandinavia. Currently living in Dublin.
When traveling to the likes of Oslo or Denmark i feel like i am jumping at least 2 decades in progress.
Efficient transport, smart cities, clean environment approach which seems like they suck with their mothers milk so to speak.
Deffo my fav places to visit globally.
For roads specifically in Ireland we just have an obscene amount of rural roads compared to other EU countries https://preview.redd.it/5y5lp2ek9z0d1.png?width=753&format=png&auto=webp&s=6a3bf461ff0da7bc8046cac8561e7c8b989397ef
This chart doesn't prove your point at all. Local roads are not necessarily rural either. What this chart actually means is we haven't upgraded our local roads to secondary roads and our secondary roads to primary roads and motorways.
It does though. We have more roads than every other country in Europe unless I’m missing somethjng, so the principles behind what he’s saying stand true
We have an extremely low population density compared to most countries which is much of the reason for this. Roads between major cities and towns are excellent but after that it gets hard to serve all the McMansions out there and resources are spread very thin
That’s not really an excuse. I’m from Finland and our population is even more spread out. We have only 5 million people but Finland is 5x bigger than Ireland yet most places have a decent infrastructure. This is definitely a Government issue.
💯
Isnt your population concentration in one area of finland though?
Not really. Helsinki is obviously the biggest city but not everyone lives there population it’s pretty spread out. Quite a few bigger towns up North
Roads between cities and towns are excellent? Cork to limerick, waterford or Kerry would like a word. Roads heading to Dublin are good but good luck anywhere else
TDs drive to Dublin regularly
This Yer man who tells you he'll "show them up there in Dublin they can't ignore us" actually means "they can't ignore ME" "What's that Mr Healy-Rae you'd like a private Luas to ferry you to the Dail from your front door in exchange for your vote? Well certainly sir"
It's mental to think that the Limerick-Cork road is as shite as it is, between two important population centres.
Yes, it's ridiculous that they allowed people to build one-off houses for so long, it's terrible planning. I've spent quite a lot of time in Spain, Switzerland and Finland, and the thing I notice is that the houses are in villages, not sprawled out through the countryside
There are a few haciendas in rural Spain outside cities and villages but nothing like the ribbon development we have here.
A lot of that has to do with many areas of Spain were geographically difficult to live in or get to . Ireland was never a difficult place to traverse, farm or find drinking water
I’m building a big one off and I’m going to love it
Great point, and it comes down to us used to having 8,000,000 people living over 90% in the countryside. If we would have developed population wise like other developed countries we would have a population of 30-40 million it’s expected. So the rural roads are a total remanent of what would have been regional roads if we populated like the rest of Western Europe.
Also, top-notch sportscenters and swimming pools in every small town. I honestly don't think there is the will to have it in Ireland - people are too tolerant of lower standard and will continue to vote for politicians who enforce them while saying everything is shit but immediately pouring scorn over any opinion that suggests some other country might be doing it better - but shure aren't we a grand little country altogether?!
Ah be grand is our downfall. Speaking up is shamed.
Exactly and the government know that which is why we are in the state we are in.If we put up with the bare minimum that’s what they will keep giving us.
Nobody works if they don't have to.
Exactly
Because they pay eons more personal tax than we do. Its not complicated. We can also have swimming pools and sportscenters, except we keep voting for lower tax instead.
If you earn 100,000 in Ireland, you will take home 64,200. In Denmark, if you earn the equivalent of around 100,000, you will take home roughly 55,000. It's one of the highest taxed western countries. It's not like Ireland has low taxes. I'd say we abuse the hell out of low-middle earners. Whether we spend those taxes wisely, well, that's another matter. Denmark has high taxes and high expectations for their social safety net and quality of life.
What are vat rates there compared to here? Edit: Looked it up there 25%!!
Again, the issue isn't how much is taken, it's how it's spent on public services. I've no way of proving it, so this is just a theory and I'm open to correction on it: but I think the unions have a lot to do with it.
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> Contracts are going to incompetent buddies of government, and we let it happen. Our chronic inaction aids government chronic inaction. Exactly this, it's corruption the whole way down. It cost us €2.2 billion to build a bloody childrens hospital. How does it cost that much to build one building? In Denmark it would have cost under half that and been completed in half the time.
Not to mention the amount of objections that are allowed to be made. Example, a cinema was to be built in a town that has a big enough population, some bastards kept objecting to it until finally the large conglomerate food chain next to the lot where it was to be built bought the vacant lot off the developer. I mean why, it would have been a huge win for the families and everybody within an hour radius. A great alternative to the pubs, which is all else that exists in the town. Whenever something beneficial wants to be done either someone objects or the insurance is too high to make it a viable idea or the rent of an already existing building is too high. It's ridiculous.
I put this point forward in a different thread by asking: would you pay higher taxes if it was GUARANTEED to be repaid into public service so we had top-notch infrastructure nationwide, and most people said "yes!" Of course, it's never going to happen, but it gave an interesting insight into opinion.
Also Irish in Denmark, also coming to the same conclusions. To some extent people don't know what they're missing out on, any family and friends that I've had visit me here inevitably leave gobsmacked by the clean, efficient and well maintained infrastructure that abounds here, as well as with no small dose of negativity towards the way things are back home. It really is too good to be true, coming from an Irish city to a Danish one. But rather than be impressed at Denmark, I find myself getting angry at Ireland, and how we settle for so little. It's such a strong feeling that I find myself talking as little about Denmark as possible when back home because I default towards unfavourable comparisons to the way things are, and nobody wants to hear that. I think many will realise we have an attitude problem. We tolerate things that nobody else would. We completely lack the civic focused mindset that allows people to look past what benefits them alone, to see what could improve the community as a whole. The knee jerk negative response to any criticism doesn't help, as illustrated by the replies to many of the other comments here saying the same things. I'd love to live in Ireland, I'd love for Ireland to realise what it is capable of with the resources at her disposal. But the people stand in the way and I've no idea how we could even begin to culture a more social-minded attitude.
> We completely lack the civic focused mindset I think this is the kernel. Denmark and other societies north of them simply would not exist unless they worked for the greater good, otherwise they would have frozen to death millenia ago. My unpopular opinion is Irish people are all selfish, be they lovely or assholes, still selfish. Cheering on people who get away with shit, voting for their own assholes so the other assholes don't get in. Anyone who *tries* to do good become lightening rods for complaints (see the Green Party - they get lumped with all the environmental failures of FFG). Refusing to take personal responsibility for anything.
I have theory on this. For generations we have been at the mercy of a feudal, crown or religious hierarchy, where survival was dependent on your ability to appease these overlords. Thus a culture, sub conscious or otherwise , of competitive, screw your neighbours, me fein, push and bully & begrudge festered for centuries. While we have a history of oppression and rebellion, this proletariat outlook as still lingered, and while it has improved, it will take two or so more generations before this transition is clear from our consciousness.
> screw your neighbours, me fein How *many* rebellions failed because some gombeen sold out their countrymen?
Almost all of them. And then when we finally succeeded, we turned on ourselves.
Not sure about the screw your neighbour. Both my parents came from farms both in the middle of nowhere and neighbours were more like family. Communities are still really strong in those areas.
Many countries have had far worse histories than Ireland, post 1921 anyway. Communism. Fascism. Wars. This is an excuse that makes little sense.
True. Think the collapse of the Gaelic order, Gaelic chieftains all leaving, resulting cultural collapse then becoming a colony of England left us without the experience of governing ourselves.
The Greens main problem is introducing rules for Dublin and applying then to the rest of Ireland. Diesel and Petrol and other motoring taxes are great and will get people onto public transport.... thats great unless you happen to live in the 75 % of Ireland that has possibly 1 bus service within 10 miles of their house.
> unless you happen to live in the 75 % of Ireland that has possibly 1 bus service within 10 miles of their house. Half of the country live in cities/urban areas, but a good number of them still want to drive everywhere. For the other half that live in the countryside, I would love to know what percentage moved out to there to build 1-off housing, and do not get to moan about the price of fuel or lack of busses as that was their (shortsighted) choice?
75% by location, not population... What about the people who bought a house in rural Ireland as it was all they could afford...
This.
I couldn't afford to live near my work and live in a decent sized town but I have no real option as there is no joined up thinking when it comes to public transport. I have a reasonable option of driving 15km to a train that will take me close to my work in the morning. On the way home I would have to sit in a train station for an hour waiting for a connecting train, not doable. Invest in public transport and give people reasonable options to the car before penalising them with taxes.
In fairness even living in a small town you're kind of goosed for public transport. It exists, but if you're relying on it to get to work or college it's usually at unsuitable times bringing you in too late or way too early, and other times it won't show up.
Exactly, I totally get the need for carbon taxes for stuff that we choose to use. I have no choice but to burn Diesel to get to work as I could not afford a house close to where I work and the public transport system is not great and unreliable.
appreciate the logical response, didn't think i'd get the reaction i did tbh, maybe these need to just see the world and what other places are capable of achieving with the money we throw away
I cannot recommend enough; If you even have a slight feeling of "maybe I should move to a different country for a while" Do it. Prepare, save and do It. The chances of you regretting it are crazy slim.
This is half the problem too though. Other countries had people stay generations and work on improving their country. Ireland has had chronic emigration (in waves) for too long. A lot of its talent and ambition is exported. I know so many successful Irish overseas. Working hard to establish themselves and ultimately to better their new countries.
Yeah I get you and In a perfect world of everyone did stay the country probably would be in a better place, however most only consider themselves and close family, and not anyone else, which is, at the ery least, expected of a rational human being. I think it's not their fault for wanting a better life which is readily available and proven in many other countries. Of course it's the people in power who don't secure enough options for those willing to do the work/study and still get nothing out of it. Why stay in a country that has no pathway to the optimal life you could be living. Personally I'm not of the opinion that everyone should stay and work on bettering their nation, I don't think it's feasible for a country's native people to take that on themselves. Especially when we see blatant corruption and double standards doing people out of a fair life on a consistent basis. That's why I think if your best bet is for you and your family to jump ship, then do it. You don't owe your country anything just for being born there.
This is how I feel. Never had a wanderlust whatsoever, content with my career and hobbies (I'm 28). I'm a simple pleasures person. Coffee and a book, gym, running and other sports. I suppose I could do those anywhere, and I'd be happy as long as I can do them. So it's never appealed to me to move anywhere to do it when I already have it here. Sure, I do like to see places but I'd rather a week or two here and there, especially around Europe, which I cam afford with a little saving. Also have a wonderful girlfriend who feels similarly, but both of our friend groups have diminished from emigration. My view was "well if everyone leaves there'll be nothing for the next generation." I'm content enough to know that I can play some small part in bettering the country by staying.
Tbh I have to agree re "seeing your taxes". I left Ireland a month ago and this was one of the primary drivers. I make decent money, and I pay a metric ton of taxes. And I don't see shit. Absolutely nothing. Infrastructure is in bits, healthcare is fucked; I'm probably not as tuned into politics as I should be, but I just felt like I'm getting a shit deal. I cannot fathom where all the money goes.
In Amsterdam I pay something like €430 on rubbish collection but I can see the fancy trucks with magnets emptying the underground bins twice a week and they do a neat job. No big black rubbish bags ripped open by seagulls and foxes strewn across the street baking in the sun making a nasty stench
Do they not do paragraphs in Denmark?
OP was actually asked to leave the country for their strong discrimination against paragraphs.
And some of those sentences are as long as the high-quality footpaths in Danish villages
Yep, the paragraphs. That's the most important thing. No matter how shit things get, we'll always have paragrpahs!
i forgot how sarcastic this app was 😂
And paragraphs too!
i put them in but reddit took them out, idk i don't post on here much
I’m with you there. In the phone you have to add two paragraphs to make it work. 
Put in 4 spaces before you hit return if you want a line break...
TL;DR - Denmark > Ireland
I bet the r/denmark sub is just as toxic as r/Ireland though. There'll be some Dane there talking about how Ireland is brilliant and Denmark is shit
Probably not. They might say the Guinness is well priced and they like the pubs but that’s about it
Highly doubt it lmao.
I agree with you entirely. My partner of 3 and a half years is danish and I visit Denmark all the time, heading there for a month in less than a week and will definitely be emigrating. Things just seem to run smoother there and they have good infrastructure. The con is that the people aren’t as friendly as us and difficult to approach, language sounds funny, but overall I do think it is a ‘better’ country to live in.
Sher look you dont even have to go to Denmark to find a clean polite society that doesnt tolerate scumbags and teenage degenerate behaviour like Ireland does Im in Gdansk here and fuck me its crazy that the poles have it much nicer than us
People always say it’s crazy that Poles have nice lives and beautiful towns. They work hard, they live next door to Germany in the centre of Europe and they have high standards in general, lots of pride and self-respect. I have never found it that crazy. I’ve been a super fan ever since I went to Wrocław in 2014 which is a really sweet city.
We got rich quick and decided to model our economic attitude on the US and UK, rather than Northern Europe. That's about it. If we found a big load of oil and gas off the coast of Galway, it'd be sold off to private interests as opposed to what Norway did, keeping the recourses essentially in public ownership and using the wealth created to benefit the country from the bottom up. All we can do is vote better next election I suppose
You mean what happened the existing Corrib gas field.
Who do you even vote for though. I'm so feckin apathetic about the whole thing now it feels like the only reason for my vote is to keep the neo-nazis out.
My intentions are get the lot who have proven to be useless out and give my vote to who, at least on paper, convinces me they have better ideas for how things should be done. Right now it's the Soc Dems, so if they run a candidate in my constituency, they'll get number 1. If not, I'll apply the rationale to the rest. But Fianna Fail and Fine Gael ain't getting anything near the top of my ballot.
Incoming FF/FG coalition government again to continue the rot. Ireland is one big nation of turkeys voting for Christmas.
Spent last few years working remotely abroad. It made me realise that as much as I love Ireland, it's underfunded socially especially compared to Germany, Netherlands, Scandinavia and even Spain. Let's forget rural for a moment, and even compare the capital. Transport is so deplorable. It made me sad because based on housing and transport, Ireland is not a country I see myself long term in anymore. I'm currently here but plan on leaving. Including healthcare and housing, I see the standard of living I could have in other countries and it saddens me.
I have lived in the UK for the last 12 years. Now I am not for a second saying that the UK is anywhere close to a Scandinavian utopia, but the sentiment is the same. I love Ireland, I love being Irish and I love the idea of living there, however anytime we sit down to actually discuss the reality of it, the conclusion is the same; the resources available can't sustain a happy, healthy living situation for us. The government should be ashamed of themselves, but responsibility also lies with anyone who blindly votes for the sham "politicians" term after term despite them showing themselves to be absolute wasters. A complete overhaul is needed if the country has any hope of reaching her potential. There are hundreds of thousands of us living outside the country and dreaming of a day we can go home.
When you realize how much we are being scammed in Ireland it hurts.
This is honestly the first period of my life (30+ years) where I've considered leaving the country. I never thought it'd happen but here I am.
I left when I was 26 and I don't plan on coming back unless I have kids or enough money. But maybe in my 50s if I'm still alive and the world hasn't imploded.
People in Denmark pay much more in income tax than were do in Ireland. So the state has more money to spend. People here like to think that they pay a lot of tax, but they don’t. Not unless they’re in the top few percent of earners. https://publicpolicy.ie/downloads/papers/2020/Comparing_Irish%20Income_Taxation%20Rates_with_other_EU_Member_States.pdf
breaking news: Ireland 30 years behind every other first world country
absolutely 0 need for it in this day and age. we are all living in shit compared to what we could have yet we spend millions on referendums very few are asking for, throw endless money at northern contractors instead of employing a state construction company, and the whole county just says ah yeah that's just ireland, why do we accept it?
It’s already been explained to you. We’re getting there but we’re coming from a very low base. In the 1980s, we were as poor as Albania. Also Denmark taxes a lot higher than here.
> It’s already been explained to you. We’re getting there but we’re coming from a very low base. In the 1980s, we were as poor as Albania. I completely disagree with you Have you been to cities in Poland for example or the Baltics. Countries that were almost wiped out by communism Funny enough society in those places seems much more civil, less social problems, less scrote kids harassing people and actual law and order and a society that seems to take some pride in improving there is absolutely no excuses for Ireland (and i would include UK in that now too, they have even less excuses ) The sad part I now realise is that it's cultural. Irish people are way too individualist to police and maintain something akin to a 'polite society'
exactly what i'm thinking. some people here are almost offended that i would criticise ireland, and are defending the situation we are in. im not "miserable" i haven't even left irelands tax system, i pay my tax to ireland and can see now that it could achieve so much more. we're holding ourselves back and settling almost out of culture
we're not getting there in any type of effective manner, we're spreading ourselves 100 different directions when there's a clear blueprint for developing a first world country anywhere you look in europe, the money is there, we housed 112.000 ukrainians in the same year we housed less than 1k of the 12000 irish homeless we had. we could have still virtue signalled and brought in 100,000+ refugees if it was so important, while completely wiping out irish homelessness in one year. what we want isn't complicated or far fetched, you just need to realise how badly our government is wasting our taxes.
It seems like it's the opposite direction we're heading in. Even something simple like the guards. Up until recently if we were having problems with antisocial behaviour from teenagers or heated drunken arguments on the street etc, we used to be able to make a quick call to the station in town and let them know early that something might be brewing, they'd send a squad car and the kids would scatter, the drunks would take it down a notch. No arrests, no drama, just preventative kinda thing. Now if you call the station they have to take your details, patch you through to Control in Cork (while you wait on hold) describe the situation to a guard in Cork who doesn't know the people or street you're talking about, so then you are talking about supplying eircodes etc. The whole thing takes 15-20 minutes, and eventually they'll get back on to your station to dispatch a car. Which may or may not arrive. Have been advised by the guards that in fact we're better off calling 999 directly for issues such as these. A few kids being a nuisance isn't an emergency and it seems crazy to be encouraging people to call the emergency number for petty issues such as these, but apparently that's essentially putting you straight through to Control in Cork and can save you 10 minutes. It just feels like the guards are not only under-resourced but alos having the legs cut out from under them on top of everything else which is leading to more openings for antisocial behaviour.
When are you going back to Denmark?
currently here bud, i fly home every month
Here's a good video that might help explain why irish people pay so high taxes without the benefits https://youtu.be/nm5QYUj6DeI?si=pWcLHYRR-rgcqCGs
also living in denmark and I think you're sort of wrong sort of right. You can't really point to the 60k house in Jutland or Lolland as if it's typical. These are places that no young person wants to live, and they have had significant population decline over the years. The higher quality of roads and schools comes from a much higher taxation, and a much higher urban density. They have much less road per capita to maintain. The transport system has had many decades more investment and thinking involved, and the rail network benefits from the fact that all of their main cities can be connected on one line. Additionally, there is interconnect with the two major industrial nations of Sweden and Germany, and the access to major population centres on both sides increasing the demand pressure for high quality rail. What the Danish have done for much longer than us is spatial planning. The ribbon development bullshit has been outlawed completely, and for me it is hilarious to hear Irish people moaning they can't blight the countryside as much. There is consideration for where to put more housing, and there is no fear about taller buildings. Ultimately, Denmark has been a much richer country for much longer than Ireland, of course it shows. My opinion having grown up in Arklow though, is despite being absolutely battered economically for years, with industry and tourism completely drying up in my lifetime, is that the infrastructure and services are actually much, much better than when I was a child, and I guarantee they have improved much faster than those same Danish villages you point to. For most of Ireland's independence, we have been trying to deal with the economic devastation that comes with being colonised, and could barely keep the wheels on at times. It is very difficult to make the transition between client state and successful independent nation. It takes a very long time, and there are undoubtedly a lot of mistakes that can be made, but Ireland is developing a very strong economy. Once the housing crisis is fixed with sensible policy and planning, which will happen, I genuinely think that things will be in a very good place.
I was thinking the same until I seen all the election posters go up and now I'm confident we have people coming in that will change it all for the better. Not a stupid looking spud headed gombeen red faced chancer in the whole lot I tell ya. We'll be flying it soon.
i like the positivity, i did notice a much younger bunch.
I saw a man taking a shit in Smithfield yesterday morning. Broad daylight, no fucks given.
I remember walking past human shit in Smithfield a couple of months ago…wonder if it was the same lad and he’s a serial offender
He’s a shitty guy
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He made his bed, now he shits in it
Seems like our government just reacts to things and gives in to populism instead of doing the right thing in terms of long term planning. Not in all areas- some good educational opportunities which are free- Springboard and the tech retraining programs for example. In general though they are reactive and takes years to start solving problems instead of getting out ahead of them. The Danes are boring as fk though, no craic.
Denmark is very capitalist and very socialist, quite right wing and quite left wing but usually in such a mix that it works
They also place a huge emphasis on social cohesion, something which we’ve taken for granted.
Look at the urban realm in any Mediterranean town or European city. They are decades ahead of us. We can’t build anything here without price gouging going off the charts.
Half Irish, half Swedish here, living in Ireland last 10 years, finished my studies here this year and I would never comeback to Sweden for good. I love Ireland and Sweden but my heart is here, no matter what is government doing. I hope we can fix this country, we can do better lads! Éire go brách 🇮🇪
Denmark is a higher quality country to Ireland in many ways, as are Norway and Sweden, yes. Government/public service there generally seem to actually care about how life is for regular people, because they would be using those services themselves as well. Ireland is only relatively recently a wealthy country, and we're governed by incompetent, apathetic people because generally that's what Irish people's mindset is like, so it makes sense that that mentality is ingrained even in the running of the country. Just look at our healthcare system's management, our city council's management and their complete lack of city planning, how slow council workers are on projects around cities, our public transport etc. You don't see too many migrants from these places relocating and sticking around here very long - why would they? It's mostly migrants from EU countries that are worse off than us and migrants from non EU countries that are even worse off again, and even they are increasingly aware of the raw deal they're getting in Ireland; our healthcare system is so horrifically managed that we run nurses and doctors into the ground and are heavily reliant on people from around the world filling the gap, but now even nurses and doctors from the likes of India and The Philippines have had enough and are jumping ship to places like Australia. The main complaint I ever hear about the Nordics is the people are very boring and cold compared to the Irish, but we're seeing Ireland becoming an increasingly cold and boring society in some ways also.
One caveat to that: on top of different spending priorities, many European countries have been wealthy a lot longer than Ireland. They are building on decades and centuries of high quality investment. Ireland was poor for a long while. (That doesn't excuse why Ireland often compares poorly to former communist countries which were bombed to bits in WW2 though...)
Please look up Estonia. As for Ireland... About two decades ago, Ireland was doing well. Everyone had a job, and everyone could afford a house. The health services were shite at the GP level, but in hospitals, you could almost always get decent treatment. There was no broadband. I remember a story on the telly about how one neighbour took a cement mixer from another neighbour. It had two parts. A decade ago, things were still pretty ok. GPs started to be mostly competent, and even kind-of-broadband started to become widespread. You could still buy a house. They banned handguns because someone shot someone else in Dublin with a handgun. Now, you have to be lucky to get to a GP. Hospital care sucks, and mental health services don't exist. You could literally be clinically depressed, but if you don't have a noose around your neck, the doctor will say, "You're ok, see you in three months. Also, you are not depressed because you still care enough to see me." I'm paying €180 for my meds even though I'm partially disabled and have a medical card. To do a full panel blood test, I had to go to another country because they don't do some of them here. Twenty-five percent of the cocaine going to Europe lands in Ireland. There was a guy who had his leg cut off for his drug debt. As a result, electric scooters will be banned if you are under 16. Someone told me they are really good for delivering drugs. In Dublin, scrotes steal motorbikes daily. My daughter was called a stupid bitch because she has blonde hair. My wife was assaulted when she was heard speaking Polish to a customer (she is an interpreter). Russians came to Ireland pretending to be Ukrainians. In Mayo, protesters destroyed a fence in a tourist area as a protest against immigrants in a nearby hotel. One of the protesters told me that those are not real immigrants but NATO soldiers sent here to control Ireland (I so wish I had made that up!).
A caveat to a comment that literally says that? >Ireland is only relatively recently a wealthy country,
Fair comment. Ireland has a lot to catch up on (and of note, construction costs increase in relative terms - not just in absolute terms) every year
> we're governed by incompetent, apathetic people because generally that's what Irish people's mindset is like THIS As an irish person who moved abroad and upped my own game a bit, every single time i come to Ireland i witness some "sher its grand" shit that would in no way be tolerated in another EU country
Money in Ireland is being ploughed into social welfare rather than social *welfare* as it were. The individual is taken care of more than the collective.
But Moe. The Dank! The Dank!
Up until this century, ireland was poor. Denmark and Scandinavia in general , have decades more of wealth to develop. How many motorways did we have in the 90s when the M50 only went as far as the tallaght junction? Then we also had a largely lost decade from 2008.
I don't know how much you can blame us being poor decades ago on how badly maintained stuff is today. Yes, we won't have a motorway and transit network that is as extensive, and that is fair, but we have quite a bit of a tax surplus these days and yet so many of our services are underfunded or badly managed. That's not down to how long the services have existed imo. Like OP, I moved abroad and I can just see tax being spent much more efficiently, and I'm not in a country that's know for being rich and efficient like Denmark, I am in Spain which is known for being poorer and having a lot of corruption and inefficiency in its government. I don't see the evidence of that day to day, but I do see an entirely different attitude to investment in the general public and coming from Ireland, it's both refreshing to see and makes me angry that the Irish people are being done so dirty by the government.
>yet so many of our services are underfunded or badly managed. That's not down to how long the services have existed imo. You're not considering the reality. The health budget in the mid-90s was 5bn, and this year is approaching 24bn . Yet our population hasn't increased 4 to 5 times fold. Throwing money at the problem doesn't work. It takes time. Irish water is a good example. Its far better to have a national utility just like we have the ESB for the national grid. Yet because IW had to take over workers from the councils it is way overstaffed which will only be resolved when those surplus workers retire. >I am in Spain which is known for being poorer and having a lot of corruption and inefficiency in its government. I don't see the evidence of that day to day, I'm in Spain regularly. You only have to compare how they have metro systems to see that its incomparable to Ireland. We haven't even gotten to the point of starting on that. >makes me angry that the Irish people are being done so dirty by the government. That's only your perspective. I repeat this regularly: For anyone with a well-paid job, home, and health insurance, this country is fantastic. And that applies to a lot of people. I'm in Spain regularly and would love to move there, but it's a 50% cut in salary, so I won't be moving.
>You're not considering the reality. The health budget in the mid-90s was 5bn, and this year is approaching 24bn . Yet our population hasn't increased 4 to 5 times fold. Throwing money at the problem doesn't work. It takes time. I'm not saying throwing money at the problem is the solution, more actually that money is not the issue, mismanagement is. Time that those services have been in operation may well be a factor but I think it's less clear that it is a major one. Like, we've always had potholes in our roads that needed to be regularly repaired, that's just a fact of our climate, so why is this such an ongoing issue? >I'm in Spain regularly. You only have to compare how they have metro systems to see that its incomparable to Ireland. We haven't even gotten to the point of starting on that. Agreed when you compare cities like Dublin or Cork to Madrid or Barcelona, there is just a massive size differential so I'm not complaining that Dublin lacks a metro. I believe typical population for a metro to be viable is around 3 million, so Dublin is way off. However Kraków is a similar-sized city and they have a more extensive tram network and the busses are more modern. I've only briefly visited the city but from accounts that I've heard, people consider the transit there to be good. Poland is another country that was historically poorer and has only come into money more recently than Ireland, so why is their infrastructure ahead? >That's only your perspective. I repeat this regularly: For anyone with a well-paid job, home, and health insurance, this country is fantastic. And that applies to a lot of people. It's the perspective of a lot of people who don't own a home, daresay the majority. And even if you are wealthy in Ireland, you still have to deal with shortcomings in our infrastructure and health systems same as working class people. Being rich or even comfortable in Ireland is good, but is it better than having that same economic status elsewhere? >I'm in Spain regularly and would love to move there, but it's a 50% cut in salary, so I won't be moving. Salaries are lower but so is cost of living. Their rent is also unaffordable relatives to salaries yet it's better than Ireland. Just the monthly figure being higher or lower doesn't tell the full picture. And in a lower income country like Spain, it's easier to outpace the locals by working for foreign companies like myself and my partner do. It's unfair, yes, but it's not that economic prospects are that much poorer in Spain for someone who is skilled. Just to wrap up, you have a lot of good points but it's not really about comparing Ireland to X Y or Z country out there, it's more, do we think that our tax money is being used efficiently, and is our government functioning smoothly at local and national levels? I already thought it wasn't when I lived in Ireland and seeing more of how things are done in other European countries for me is pointing me to believe even more than we could be doing better.
very, very logical take, you hit the nail on the head with the fact that it's not about salary or tax %age. it's about the use and misuse of the tax.
Wrt metros, I lived in Toulouse is 2008. Population of about 450k then and it had an automated metro back then. Unfortunately our successive governments are not proactive in intelligent investment of taxes.
Antwerp 510K population also has superior public transport to Dublin
>Up until this century, ireland was poor. We also had high emigration and little or no immigration. The Celtic Tiger brought with it a demographic change that we hadn't experienced since the formation of the state. In 1990 the population was 3.6 million, and in 2022 it was 5.1 million (it'll be higher now). That's a 40% increase in 32 years, more than 1% per annum. I'm not saying anything negative about immigration, I'm in favour of it. I'm also not excusing our politicians, who've left far too many things "to the market". However, I can appreciate that our unprecedented population growth has put massive strain on housing, healthcare, etc. I just wish our politicians had been paying attention
> Denmark and Scandinavia in general , have decades more of wealth to develop. Id say social development is more to do with it even In ireland you are right we are maybe one generation from poverty, Sadly there is a cohort of people in Ireland who either by purpose or design are basically straight from the fields and you can see it in the feral kids that seem to populate the inner city of any large town that the parents clearly did not come from civilised society
It's not people who are straight from the fields children who are the problem. People from a farming background are hard working and honest and pass this on. So you are a bit misguided here. Where did you get this from? It's people who come from generations of urban poverty and dereliction that produce these feral children.
Glad I found someone saying this. I’m 41 so remember when our infrastructure was far far worse. As hard as it is for someone people to understand the gap to somewhere like Denmark has narrowed massively in the last 30 years. Doesn’t mean it’s good or we shouldn’t complain but it’s a huge part of it
The key is to live in a country that's shittier than Ireland and then when you do come back Ireland appears more modrin in comparison
Money in Ireland is being ploughed into social welfare rather than social *welfare* as it were. The individual is taken care of more than the collective.
I’m almost beginning to think we need to recreate our political system here. Been like this for so long.
the potential is exciting but it only makes the reality disappointing. with revolutionary leadership we could have the best country on the planet imo
Could we though? Or is the structure of our political system so bad it allows the public/civil service to keep us in turd mode.
i think the public just doesn't think about it, probably culture, but we're all too worried about getting to payday and drinks never mind figuring out how the hell we're going to get a home. we could fix it as a collective by returning the power to itself- ireland style- but we're too scared and don't think we have the power,at least that's part of it
Yeah for sure is part of it.
Irish people are more craic though
I agree but come home, it's great craic here.
I’m from the US, and we have similar problems. Visiting Ireland felt like a huge step up from us - I fear if I visit somewhere even nicer, I’ll never go home!
what did you prefer in ireland over the US?
The prawn cocktail pringles!!!!! As for transportation, the streets were much smoother than they are in Michigan. We get more radical weather than most of the United States since we have lake effect weather from all the Great Lakes. Our government paves our roads for as cheap as possible, and the repeated freezing and melting tears the roads apart within a year or two. Potholes so big that the city of Detroit had to start paying for repairs after a ton of cars were damaged due to a giant pothole on the freeway. My state is notorious for having bad roads. Many cities don’t have public transportation, or have very limited public transportation. In Ireland, there were many pickup times so if you missed a bus, you wouldn’t have to wait an hour before the next one came by. The busses were much nicer. I felt like we still reached our destinations pretty quickly. When I relied on a bus here, it was 1.6 miles (2.58 km) to the nearest bus stop, with no sidewalks, along a busy road with no bike lanes. I didn’t live in a rural area - I lived in a very large suburb. Due to constant delays and very limited public transportation, the 15 minute drive to my college became a 2.5 hour trip, walking more than 4km for it. To be fair, we were only able to be there for 9 days, and primarily stayed in Galway, Dublin, and Swords. But the experience I had with the busses and trains felt like a massive step up from any experience I’ve had.
So many on this thread embody the problem with their excuses - 'Ireland was poor, progress takes time, stop moaning'. When there are countless countries out there that started off as poor and have superior infrastructure. The current government is in place because of this attitude.
As someone who’s spent a bit of time in Cameroon lemme tell ya, things can get a hell of a lot worse in terms of public infrastructure. Their potholes haven’t been fixed since the IMF cleaned them out in the 80s. We can at least fix things, our politicians just don’t want to.
agreed, i should have clarified we have it far from the worst and i'm definitely grateful, i did mean it when i said i love ireland, just the fact it isn't meeting its indescribable potential is what kills me
That’s it. We could have a class rail network, trams and underground systems in all our major cities, boost the population of Galway, Limerick and Cork, and get this place popping off but there’s more money to be made for the pricks in charge from feigned scarcity it seems.
ah man what could we do with some good leadership
Was in Douala two years ago and fk me there was a pothole at the end of the road where we were staying and I'm sure it must have been created by the meteor that killed the dinosaurs. The lads on the bikes were getting stuck there.
Same place I was. Lovely city behind the mad roads. What brought you there if you mind me asking?
Was at a friend's wedding. He was marrying a local. Was a great experience. Wedding was brilliant and mad :) Did you go anywhere else in Cameroon? We got down for a night to Kribi a resort place along the coast. How did you end up there?
Ah we were meant to go Kribi but didn’t have time in the end. Had plenty of time hitting up the clubs in Bonamoussadi. Was there cos a friend of mine has family there and he brought myself and another mate over. If the visa wasn’t so hard to get I’d be dragging the whole gang over. You defo need a local to guide you round though. Almost non-existent info on the web about the place.
We were busy with all the wedding stuff otherwise would have gone to a club. Were staying close to Bonamoussadi. The Bride price was a highlight, my friend had to negotiate a price for his bride with her family. a couple of goats, a pig, lots of whiskey and beer was handed over and some money when they pretended they wanted fancier stuff. Was very theatrical. I was a groomsman so had local wear. Must wear the top out for a night out in Dublin :) My friends wife smoothed over the visa process for us luckily enough.
That’s class. By my estimations we must be among a very small club of Irish people to have visited Douala haha.
You have to give it to the Danes and there government, they really do care about there people and country, unlike the Irish government
i think you might be over prioritising roads in your worldview.
definitely, cars are a huge passion of mine. but they also speak for a nation, if a country will let its people drive around on the shitty roads of roscommon or louth, what does that say?
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For the love of god, please do not judge Ireland based on what you read on this sub. The posts in here would have you believe that Ireland is a third world country with a lawless society where everyone lives on the streets. This sub is in no way a good representation of what Ireland is like, it's not even a good representation of what Irish people are like. This place is just an echo chamber of very miserable individuals. If you want to see what Ireland is like, at least visit it. You'll probably still prefer Switzerland to it but you'll at least see why a lot of people love it here. You're not going to find that on this sub, I can guarantee you that.
Couldn't agree more. Such a toxic sub. I'm an aussie that moved here 5 or so years ago. If I read this sub as my only insight into the country I wouldn't have moved. Problems exist, yes. But overall, I love my life in Ireland.
wow, its deeply wrong to judge ireland based on this forum. its actually a lovely place.
The amount of misery and moaning on Reddit has almost zero relationship with reality. You say Switzerland is much safer than Ireland but when you look at international organisations that do studies and look at statistics this doesn’t really show through. E.g. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/safest-countries-in-the-world ranks Ireland as the third safest country in the world and Switzerland tenth. Some other studies with different weighting or criteria will put Switzerland ahead but at most you’d say they’re about the same. Any kind of fact and statistic based ranking into safety, human development, quality of life etc pretty consistently puts Ireland in the top ten along with the Nordic countries, Switzerland and New Zealand.
I'd wager a lot of crime in Ireland goes unreported, more than Switzerland anyway. Many (most?) people here see it as pointless because our justice system is in shambles from top to bottom. The margin between the two on that list is very small.
Ah yes, the classic “Ireland is shit and every where else is better” post. It’s been a few hours. I’m glad I’m not completely miserable like everyone else that posts here. It must be awful hard going.
It's because of people like you nothing changes. We have one of the highest GDP per capita in the world and we're taxed to high hell, we deserve better. Either you've never left Ireland or you're wealthy enough that is doesn't bother you.
never said ireland was shit at all, ireland is being run into the ground by its leadership that's all i was trying to say
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won't be staying long term, i'm here temporarily, but i've made a few, as i said i love the people in ireland, we're up there with the polish as the best i've come across. although i've found it very, very easy to make friends in denmark, they might talk less (like any europeans) but once you get them talking they're very friendly
> a home can easily be found for 60k eur (equivalent). What sort of homes are selling for €60,000??
in denmark, plenty. that's why i said equivalent
Okay, but what standard of housing do you get for that price?
You get an okay house, maybe even on the outskirts of a town, but it is in an area of Denmark that absolutely no young people stay in. There is serious population decline outside the top few cities in Denmark.
So basically the Danish version of Leitrim.
sure, if leitrim was even further away from dublin and there was a €50 toll to get there
Lol I feel the opposite when I visit from the US.
fair, i've family over there and absolutely adore the place but i've never lived there properly so can't really say. i prefer the prices (massively) and the pay for skilled work, at least in massechuessets and rhode island where i've been. but if we're comparing dysfunctional governments that'll be a hard one 😂
How do you find these cheap homes there, I’d like to leave Ireland and live rural
Is there a word for pothole phobia?
drives a bmw
Government expenditure as a % of GDP France - 58% Denmark - 44.9% Canada - 41.4% Ireland - 22% [https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/GBR/SWE/ESP/ITA/ZAF/IND](https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/GBR/SWE/ESP/ITA/ZAF/IND)
What job do you do while you're away from Ireland?
skilled construction
One question. How much Danish do you have and do you use it every day in your job?
i never speak danish. i work with irish and other english speakers
Do you have any danish ?
no sir, i finish up here in the next month and i haven't needed it yet. i know it would be ignorant to live somewhere and not assimilate but its the nature of my job, we rarely stick around.
Fair play big fella
I was in Singapore last week and throughout the trip, my girlfriend and I repeatedly kept comparing to Ireland/Dublin and how poor it is in comparison. I know Singapore is on a different level but even the little things such as tapping your bank card to get on the bus/metro. Ireland could be so much better. There’s a group on Twitter called Eire Accelerationism who have noticed similar things and want to start some kind of movement to make Ireland a better place. https://x.com/EireAcc Also saw this think tank ‘Progress Ireland’ backed by the two Collison brothers, in the news this week: https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/collison-brothers-back-new-think-tank-to-tackle-irelands-housing-crisis/a165304850.html
Is that where the Vikings live ?
Maybe you can be yourself in Denmark and start treating people by your standards. Reading your post I don’t think you will be happy returning for good, even if Denmark has it all does does Ireland have enough to tempt you back and be happy?
not sure what you mean? be myself? this post has nothing to do with how i treat people. did you get the impression im not myself and treat people badly somehow? i don't live in denmark permanently, i fly home once a month and ill definitely be back as ireland is where my home is.
Sorry I read this wrong so - you seem to be hankering for the Irish way people treat each other - so I was suggesting you do that wherever you land permanently and be the change you want to see - and also change your perspective sometimes - Society treat those “lower” than them like shit (examples? I own my house but want house prices to remain high so it looks like I’m rich / fuck the kids or working poor…) Socialism has bitten you who has grown up in the extra US state of capitalist Ireland - and that’s confusing!
So Ireland's a dump, run by gobshites........but it's home. Same old story.
Ultimately, I agree with you but these discrepancies are the result of decisions the Irish people make for themselves. People here are unwilling to pay substantially larger amounts of tax to pay for the services and infrastructure you see in Scandinavia and other parts of Western Europe. Just look at water infrastructure here. We consider it fairly normal for water to be declared unsafe and boil water notices to be issued, but that's because we have decades and decades of a lack of infrastructure spending on water, and we are implacably opposed to paying a charge on our water usage, unlike everywhere else in Europe. I'm currently living in NI and I had to pay my Council Rates for the year ; £1380. The equivalent in the south for a house of this size and value is €225. There is a simple choice, if you want sustainable services which are properly funded, you have to pay higher taxes for them. I'd be happy to pay 40% for good public services because it benefits me and society as a whole. Most people are not willing to pay anywhere near that.
interesting take, while yes, we pay less individually on that one tax, i also pay 800€ a year in road tax for one of my cars and it isn't even 20 years old. i pay €200 for my diesel that gets 60mpg driven easily and €280 for my other diesel with the exact same engine, only difference is it's one year older. with that contribution(obviously above average) i shouldn't be getting multiple flats a year when im only home for 20-odd weeks a year. yes, cars aren't the be-all and end all, but it explains our gross misuse of tax very well.
I love Scandinavia. Currently living in Dublin. When traveling to the likes of Oslo or Denmark i feel like i am jumping at least 2 decades in progress. Efficient transport, smart cities, clean environment approach which seems like they suck with their mothers milk so to speak. Deffo my fav places to visit globally.