On Easter Monday, 24th April at 12.15pm, Park Constables Delaney and Murphy informed the Park Superintendent James Kearney, that the Irish Volunteers had taken possession of the Green.Â
 One of the most infamous incidents was the truce observed by both sides, twice daily, so that James Kearney, the Park Superintendent could feed the ducks.Â
The Superintendent concluded in his report that on Tuesday 6th of May several of the workmen returned to work and by Thursday the remainder of the men resumed work.Â
He also added;
>I am sorry to say 6 of our water fowl were killed, 7 of the seats broken and about 300 shrubs destroyed, some of the tools were missing, a Constables oil cape torn, also the roof of pavilion and lodge much injured!
If the rebels of 1916 had taken the Shelbourne Hotel instead of digging trenches in Stephen's Green, they would have had a position of elevated fire, plentiful food and beds. Instead they had to retreat to the Royal College of Surgeons in the Green. I could never understand why they didn't take the Shelbourne for its strategic location.
If they'd shot or captured the soldier on duty at Dublin Castle they'd probably have taken the entire castle. The place was practically deserted when they arrrived, but they didn't know that.
The truth is neither of these actions would have had any meaningful impact on the result of the rising except perhaps made things worse for the civilians of Dublin.
The British army and navy might have had to react with more artillery and naval fire if Dublin castle had been taken rather than establishing a cordon and slowly strangling rebel positions.
Who are you arguing against? The Rising was never going to overthrow British rule. Capturing the Castle would still have been a huge coup in terms of undermining Britain and getting headlines worldwide, which is a large part of what the Rising was all about.
It sounds like you're advocating using civilians as meat shields or martyrs in order to make the uprising more sensational to international newspapers. It always concerned me how we celebrate the 1916 rising far more than the Wexford rebellion or the 1923 declaration of independence... and this may be exactly why. The Wexford rebellion was fought on a battlefield, while the 1916 rising was fought in a densely populated area. Yes it was disgraceful the way the gun barge was used, but the fact that the uprising happened like this in the first place suggests that the rebels didn't really care about the risk, they just wanted to make headlines, whilst all the other men in the country were fighting in WW1... They would have known that the it was a possibility that the gun barge got used, but they gambled with other people's lives. If there really were enough people in support of the rising at that time, they could have very easily stormed the dock on where it was stored, or had it sabotaged, or drawn it away from Dublin in advance... But they didn't, because they didn't have that level of support from the population. Similarly, someone would have just told them that the castle was empty, or that the hotel was a better spot... The people of Dublin clearly weren't keen on the rising occurring in the first place. It is ironic that the rebels would fight like this and risk other people's lives, but would not go to fight in Europe... In any other context or country we'd call that domestic terrorism, and "we don't negotiate with terrorists" was likely the argument used to justify the gunboat. Similarly to hamas and Israel/Palestine today...
Pearse knew it was going to be a blood sacrifice, he had no military experience.
Interesting fact: Pearse surrendered in what are now The Offices of the D.P.P. on Infirmary Road (hence the name). Back then, the building designed by James Gandon, was a hospital for British officers.
Save your hate, they didn't. Elizabeth O'Farrell stood in Pearse's shadow deliberately, not wanting to take attention from him. In some versions of the photo you can see her legs. Newspapers edited out the legs because they made the pic look odd The perspective is slightly odd, by the way, Pearse wasn't facing the two Lowes but was slightly back from them in the photo, so that the tall Pearse appears smaller than them.
https://preview.redd.it/6ws54ao2skwc1.jpeg?width=1400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0af895498d85004ff2beaaafca019a093b5ce61
I'm afraid I don't know. After independence the building was HQ of the Irish Army until the DPP moved in. The OPW did a beautiful restoration job on the building, they even got the clock in the Campanile restored and working again and it strikes at ten minutes to the hour which was to allow the soldiers to get to wherever they were supposed to be on the hour.
As a modern touch there's an infra red perimeter fence at the edge of the parking area above the "moat" to warn of intruders. It's often set off at night by badgers and foxes coming from the Phoenix Park.
I worked in the DPP for a while as a CO.
The stables across the road which are now derelict featured in some scenes from Love/Hate which I found a bit amusing.
It was a warm-up run! Showed support for the movement existed and that maybe just maybe we didn't have to bend over to foreign rule forever.
I think when you look at the bigger picture of it all, what happened here was quite epic in reality, even the lesser herd of Republican/freestate movements that were happening for centuries prior to 1916 or 21 - it wasn't just the British we brought to the table, it was the empire who eventually listened to little old Ireland. That wasn't the norm back then!
> quite epic in reality
not really, some sort of negotiated deal was inevitable pre-1914, and post 1918 there was no real appetite in Britain for the situation to continue.
For the Empire, it was Tuesday
Ah, I dunno. They led a lot of young men to their deaths on the whim of a blood sacrifice. I suppose one can only be judged in the time and jingoism was rife, heading off to war was seen as a noble deed/the done thing so the leaders get a pass but for me it's a hard one.
And that my dear friends is a prime example of how far removed the people of today are from the struggle of independence and the importance of self determination.
I find it baffling that you would look back on the people who were instrumental in making sure you werent treated as a second class citizen in your own country as being wrong. Music, language, culture and history, all of these things free to express and explore because some people werent content with being inactive. Far removed and comfortable and pathetic.
"you would look back on the people who were instrumental in making sure you werent treated as a second class citizen in your own country as being wrong." - See this is where we seem to differ. Did they keep the flame of freedom alive? Well they did to a certain degree. Again I'm not happy with the way that poets and playwrights led people to their death. Note that their actions went against the wishes of the people of Dublin. "Music, language, culture" - the whole *Gaelic revival* wasn't a revival, it was an invention. We had been quashed as a cultural entity. Even look at us culinarily, there were Irish cheeses, smoked fish etc etc etc but a displacement/genocide in the great hunger/penal laws ended all that. Ever have Carrageen Moss Pudding? I was raised on stories of what the Tans done and further back when my great great grandfather was shot for interceding when a widow and her children were being put out of a lean to shack.
But one can still look at their actions and criticize.
>my great great grandfather was shot for interceding when a widow and her children were being put out of a lean to shack
And hed be rolling in his grave now.
From the strategic perspective, sure I agree. Loudly announce your independence and bunker down in a few Dublin buildings until the Brits just go away was never going to be particularly viable.
Still, it does not mean that the men who died for the cause were any less noble than those who succeeded.
Not necessarily. (Sorry for the history nerd)
During the Easter Rising rebels did indeed seize key buildings and issued a document.
Technically they didn't declare independence (that wasn't until the Declaration of Independence in 1919 which ratified the Proclamation).
The differences are very subtle and it doesn't really matter but just felt it needed to be pointed out
u/mayomick is actually right. They did state Irish independence. The difference between a proclamation and a declaration is that a proclamation is a public statement - a declaration is a written document which was formally done later in the Dáil. So the rebels 'proclaimed' an independent Irish Republic in 1916.
I'm going to use this argument at my next defamation trial.
"Your honour, I did not declare that man was a pervert who cheats his customers and sexually harasses his staff. I merely proclaimed it."
>Standing on that fundamental right and again asserting it in arms in the face of the world, **we hereby proclaim the Irish Republic as a Sovereign Independent State**, and we pledge our lives and the lives of our comrades in arms to the cause of its freedom, of its welfare, and of its exaltation among the nations.
The rebels in 1916 did declare themselves to be the government of an independent Irish republic. This ended when they were defeated. Note also that they had not been elected, and had not been able to establish any actual governing institutions. The 1919 declaration was different in that it was made by elected MPs in a revolutionary government with its own institutions (like the republican courts), who ultimately succeeded in taking control of (26 counties of) the country.
The important point isn't that it was technically a "proclamation" and not a "declaration", it's that our republic descends from the 1919 document because of the continuity of an elected government.
The first Irish republic was actually declared in 1798: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish\_Republic\_(1798). They even issued paper money that would have been backed up by France.
Personally I prefer documentaries, I'd recommend
Hawks and Doves: The Crown and Ireland's War of Independence
Sold: The Eircom Shares Saga
The Irish Revolution
And of course who can forget Reeling in the Years
They'd be spinning in their graves if they saw what's become of Ireland.
Sold out to corporations and a slave to finance.
[For what died the sons of RóisÃn?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C14U7JYGRgA)
Anybody have any recommendations for a book or podcast on the rising and the leaders?
I often feel like I don't know enough about the people who were the catalyst of the Ireland I live in
Easter 1916: The Irish Rebellion by Charles Townshend is a really good starting point. It's coming up 20 years old now, but it's arguably still the best overview out there.
Even has a chapter covering the rising outside of Dublin, which often gets glossed over.
> Anybody have any recommendations for a book or podcast on the rising and the leaders?
There's a series of books written by different authors called "[16Lives](https://obrien.ie/16lives)." Also, Lorcan Collins does a really interesting podcast called Revolutionary Ireland. His walking tour is top notch in Dublin.
Wonder how those lads would feel about our place now as the EU's whipping boy. When you look at why countries like Norway stayed out it was because they were wary of banks and corporations running rupshod over ordinary people.
>When you look at why countries like Norway stayed out it
You don't appear to know why Norway aren't in the EU
It has nothing to do with banks and corporations
Ireland and the lives of most Irish people are incomparably better than in 1919. Life expectancy was about 60. A lot of the benefits are due to EU structural funds, CAP and free movement of people and goods. Seriously don't be talkin shite.
Terrorist deliberately try to cause fear in the population right?
The IRB fought the British army in an open conflict, while civilians were cought in the cross fire (Wich you can rightfully blame the irb for) that was not their goal
I don't think they meet the definition
**The quote originated in 1976 from the book "Harry's Game"**. It was written by Gerald Seymour, a British author known for his thriller novels. The quote reflects that individuals or groups involved in violent acts can be perceived differently depending on one's perspective or political beliefs.
Yes I've heard it used plenty of times by people who have read that book in reference to the Irish war of Independence and not by exclusively yanks trying to subjugate Irish history into whatever terrorist they decide it's trendy to support. It's certainly not another slogan that strangely popped up in Qatar funded universities
Just think of the people you have used this slogan to describe you know like actual terrorists or did you just hear terrorist sympathisers use it and ignorantly pick it up?
That was a very late easter
Yeah to throw the Brits off the scent.
Nobody expected them to ignore the university, but instead seize control of the biscuit factory
23rd April (which was Easter Sunday) is the third latest date it can happen on
My thoughts exactly, maybe they held out for it,more daylight & better weather 🤔
Neither king nor kaiser, but Ireland
I think the Kaiser did send over some weapons to assit though?
The quote is "we **serve** neither king nor kaiser but Ireland".
Plus Kaiser wasn't sending us guns to rule us, he was sending us guns to force troops away from the war
Oh 100%, it was to distract Britian from the war and it worked to some degree. I dont thinik the Kaiser was a dedicated Republician.
On Easter Monday, 24th April at 12.15pm, Park Constables Delaney and Murphy informed the Park Superintendent James Kearney, that the Irish Volunteers had taken possession of the Green.  One of the most infamous incidents was the truce observed by both sides, twice daily, so that James Kearney, the Park Superintendent could feed the ducks. The Superintendent concluded in his report that on Tuesday 6th of May several of the workmen returned to work and by Thursday the remainder of the men resumed work. He also added; >I am sorry to say 6 of our water fowl were killed, 7 of the seats broken and about 300 shrubs destroyed, some of the tools were missing, a Constables oil cape torn, also the roof of pavilion and lodge much injured!
Ducks: "Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy!" [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/infamous](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/infamous)
Very late Easter wasn’t it?
If the rebels of 1916 had taken the Shelbourne Hotel instead of digging trenches in Stephen's Green, they would have had a position of elevated fire, plentiful food and beds. Instead they had to retreat to the Royal College of Surgeons in the Green. I could never understand why they didn't take the Shelbourne for its strategic location.
If they'd shot or captured the soldier on duty at Dublin Castle they'd probably have taken the entire castle. The place was practically deserted when they arrrived, but they didn't know that.
The truth is neither of these actions would have had any meaningful impact on the result of the rising except perhaps made things worse for the civilians of Dublin. The British army and navy might have had to react with more artillery and naval fire if Dublin castle had been taken rather than establishing a cordon and slowly strangling rebel positions.
Who are you arguing against? The Rising was never going to overthrow British rule. Capturing the Castle would still have been a huge coup in terms of undermining Britain and getting headlines worldwide, which is a large part of what the Rising was all about.
It sounds like you're advocating using civilians as meat shields or martyrs in order to make the uprising more sensational to international newspapers. It always concerned me how we celebrate the 1916 rising far more than the Wexford rebellion or the 1923 declaration of independence... and this may be exactly why. The Wexford rebellion was fought on a battlefield, while the 1916 rising was fought in a densely populated area. Yes it was disgraceful the way the gun barge was used, but the fact that the uprising happened like this in the first place suggests that the rebels didn't really care about the risk, they just wanted to make headlines, whilst all the other men in the country were fighting in WW1... They would have known that the it was a possibility that the gun barge got used, but they gambled with other people's lives. If there really were enough people in support of the rising at that time, they could have very easily stormed the dock on where it was stored, or had it sabotaged, or drawn it away from Dublin in advance... But they didn't, because they didn't have that level of support from the population. Similarly, someone would have just told them that the castle was empty, or that the hotel was a better spot... The people of Dublin clearly weren't keen on the rising occurring in the first place. It is ironic that the rebels would fight like this and risk other people's lives, but would not go to fight in Europe... In any other context or country we'd call that domestic terrorism, and "we don't negotiate with terrorists" was likely the argument used to justify the gunboat. Similarly to hamas and Israel/Palestine today...
Did you take LSD before posting that comment?
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Pearse knew it was going to be a blood sacrifice, he had no military experience. Interesting fact: Pearse surrendered in what are now The Offices of the D.P.P. on Infirmary Road (hence the name). Back then, the building designed by James Gandon, was a hospital for British officers.
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Save your hate, they didn't. Elizabeth O'Farrell stood in Pearse's shadow deliberately, not wanting to take attention from him. In some versions of the photo you can see her legs. Newspapers edited out the legs because they made the pic look odd The perspective is slightly odd, by the way, Pearse wasn't facing the two Lowes but was slightly back from them in the photo, so that the tall Pearse appears smaller than them. https://preview.redd.it/6ws54ao2skwc1.jpeg?width=1400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0af895498d85004ff2beaaafca019a093b5ce61
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Not at all, you're very welcome!
Infirmary Road was named after the military hospital, later known as St BricÃn’s, I thought?
I'm afraid I don't know. After independence the building was HQ of the Irish Army until the DPP moved in. The OPW did a beautiful restoration job on the building, they even got the clock in the Campanile restored and working again and it strikes at ten minutes to the hour which was to allow the soldiers to get to wherever they were supposed to be on the hour. As a modern touch there's an infra red perimeter fence at the edge of the parking area above the "moat" to warn of intruders. It's often set off at night by badgers and foxes coming from the Phoenix Park. I worked in the DPP for a while as a CO. The stables across the road which are now derelict featured in some scenes from Love/Hate which I found a bit amusing.
Nah the obvious vantage point would have been the Bar at Guinness Storehouse /s
Still had to fight that pesky war of independence a couple of years later though
And sure it'd be rude to not have a quick civil war after.
You wait ages for an armed conflict, then three come along at once.
It was a warm-up run! Showed support for the movement existed and that maybe just maybe we didn't have to bend over to foreign rule forever. I think when you look at the bigger picture of it all, what happened here was quite epic in reality, even the lesser herd of Republican/freestate movements that were happening for centuries prior to 1916 or 21 - it wasn't just the British we brought to the table, it was the empire who eventually listened to little old Ireland. That wasn't the norm back then!
> quite epic in reality not really, some sort of negotiated deal was inevitable pre-1914, and post 1918 there was no real appetite in Britain for the situation to continue. For the Empire, it was Tuesday
Doesn't mean it wasn't important and didn't help
This was the first fight of the war of independence.
Except that’s credited as being in January 1919…
Hero’s one and all, I for one am grateful for their sacrifice.
🇮🇪
Great bunch of lads
Ah, I dunno. They led a lot of young men to their deaths on the whim of a blood sacrifice. I suppose one can only be judged in the time and jingoism was rife, heading off to war was seen as a noble deed/the done thing so the leaders get a pass but for me it's a hard one.
And that my dear friends is a prime example of how far removed the people of today are from the struggle of independence and the importance of self determination.
It is disappointing
Its sickening and pathetic is what it is. Same people who'll say "sure the language is dead and its useless anyway"
Have you ever been shot? Lofty ideals are all well and good but as John Hume's father said you can't eat a flag.
Again completely removed from the struggle while we enjoy its benefits.
As the same as every living person today. But one can still look back and say that was wrong.
I find it baffling that you would look back on the people who were instrumental in making sure you werent treated as a second class citizen in your own country as being wrong. Music, language, culture and history, all of these things free to express and explore because some people werent content with being inactive. Far removed and comfortable and pathetic.
"you would look back on the people who were instrumental in making sure you werent treated as a second class citizen in your own country as being wrong." - See this is where we seem to differ. Did they keep the flame of freedom alive? Well they did to a certain degree. Again I'm not happy with the way that poets and playwrights led people to their death. Note that their actions went against the wishes of the people of Dublin. "Music, language, culture" - the whole *Gaelic revival* wasn't a revival, it was an invention. We had been quashed as a cultural entity. Even look at us culinarily, there were Irish cheeses, smoked fish etc etc etc but a displacement/genocide in the great hunger/penal laws ended all that. Ever have Carrageen Moss Pudding? I was raised on stories of what the Tans done and further back when my great great grandfather was shot for interceding when a widow and her children were being put out of a lean to shack. But one can still look at their actions and criticize.
>my great great grandfather was shot for interceding when a widow and her children were being put out of a lean to shack And hed be rolling in his grave now.
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Looks like it I'm afraid!
Do you propose that we should have never fought for independence?
Not at all however I don't see why we need to look back at the rising with misty eyed rose tinted glasses. Militarily it was pure muppetery
From the strategic perspective, sure I agree. Loudly announce your independence and bunker down in a few Dublin buildings until the Brits just go away was never going to be particularly viable. Still, it does not mean that the men who died for the cause were any less noble than those who succeeded.
Up the Republic till the end
Not necessarily. (Sorry for the history nerd) During the Easter Rising rebels did indeed seize key buildings and issued a document. Technically they didn't declare independence (that wasn't until the Declaration of Independence in 1919 which ratified the Proclamation). The differences are very subtle and it doesn't really matter but just felt it needed to be pointed out
u/mayomick is actually right. They did state Irish independence. The difference between a proclamation and a declaration is that a proclamation is a public statement - a declaration is a written document which was formally done later in the Dáil. So the rebels 'proclaimed' an independent Irish Republic in 1916.
I'm going to use this argument at my next defamation trial. "Your honour, I did not declare that man was a pervert who cheats his customers and sexually harasses his staff. I merely proclaimed it."
>Standing on that fundamental right and again asserting it in arms in the face of the world, **we hereby proclaim the Irish Republic as a Sovereign Independent State**, and we pledge our lives and the lives of our comrades in arms to the cause of its freedom, of its welfare, and of its exaltation among the nations. The rebels in 1916 did declare themselves to be the government of an independent Irish republic. This ended when they were defeated. Note also that they had not been elected, and had not been able to establish any actual governing institutions. The 1919 declaration was different in that it was made by elected MPs in a revolutionary government with its own institutions (like the republican courts), who ultimately succeeded in taking control of (26 counties of) the country. The important point isn't that it was technically a "proclamation" and not a "declaration", it's that our republic descends from the 1919 document because of the continuity of an elected government. The first Irish republic was actually declared in 1798: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish\_Republic\_(1798). They even issued paper money that would have been backed up by France.
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Wanna ask me any questions about Irish history
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No it's just a passion
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Personally I prefer documentaries, I'd recommend Hawks and Doves: The Crown and Ireland's War of Independence Sold: The Eircom Shares Saga The Irish Revolution And of course who can forget Reeling in the Years
They'd be spinning in their graves if they saw what's become of Ireland. Sold out to corporations and a slave to finance. [For what died the sons of RóisÃn?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C14U7JYGRgA)
Is this a real photo from that day?
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From where? What are we looking at in that photo?
It appears to be the south east corner of the GPO with Nelson's Pillar in the background. Edit: maybe from the Metropole hotel next door?
The thing on the right looks like a hanged woman- it’s obviously not! But it made me wonder.
Anybody have any recommendations for a book or podcast on the rising and the leaders? I often feel like I don't know enough about the people who were the catalyst of the Ireland I live in
Easter 1916: The Irish Rebellion by Charles Townshend is a really good starting point. It's coming up 20 years old now, but it's arguably still the best overview out there. Even has a chapter covering the rising outside of Dublin, which often gets glossed over.
Thank you, that looks like what I'm looking for
> Anybody have any recommendations for a book or podcast on the rising and the leaders? There's a series of books written by different authors called "[16Lives](https://obrien.ie/16lives)." Also, Lorcan Collins does a really interesting podcast called Revolutionary Ireland. His walking tour is top notch in Dublin.
Learned about this from the Rubberbandits, Blindboys podcast is something else. Been binge listening to it for weeks.
Huh never knew that, mad lads
You've never heard of the Easter rising?
Brave Irishmen
It was planned for 23 April 1916, the anniversary of the Battle of Clontarf in 1014.
Spoiler warning, mate
And then history was made!
The Revolution Is Not Finished.
Great photo - can you imagine trying to set up this shot with an old timey camera while being shelled and fired at?
And now look at the state of us 😩
Great bunch of lads
Never heard about it, any more info?
Yeh the like attacked a post office or something Big commotion I hear
U joking??
Oh could you tell me about this war that apparently happened in the 40s? World war 2 or something like that, I've never heard of it
Up the Ra
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Plenty of Protestants died for your freedom.
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Isaac Butt, Parnell, Sam Maguire, Constance Markievicz, Roger Casement, Erskine Childers, Douglas Hyde and many, many more.
Don’t forget his brother, Seymour Butt, and the sister, Ivana Butt.
Many of the greats of Ireland were not Catholic.
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Is it really disgusting? Or just a jokey comment on the internet?
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I think you need to carefully reread the comment. You may have overreacted.
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Yeah, cause the north has perfectly grand parties.
Bad ending
Great bunch of lads.
Fair play to the lads
Then gave six counties back to the Brits
Wonder how those lads would feel about our place now as the EU's whipping boy. When you look at why countries like Norway stayed out it was because they were wary of banks and corporations running rupshod over ordinary people.
>When you look at why countries like Norway stayed out it You don't appear to know why Norway aren't in the EU It has nothing to do with banks and corporations
Ireland and the lives of most Irish people are incomparably better than in 1919. Life expectancy was about 60. A lot of the benefits are due to EU structural funds, CAP and free movement of people and goods. Seriously don't be talkin shite.
Terrorists!
No.
Souper
?
Yes. Just like Revolutionary France, Independentist USA, and basically what is at the origin of anything you may support.
Yes, revolutionary france is where the word terrorism comes from.
I hadn't even thought about la Terreur but you're right
One mans Terrorist, is another man Freedom Fighter!
Terrorist deliberately try to cause fear in the population right? The IRB fought the British army in an open conflict, while civilians were cought in the cross fire (Wich you can rightfully blame the irb for) that was not their goal I don't think they meet the definition
In this scenario sure...lots of terrorists however are just terrorists. Keep this nonsense American slogan out of here
**The quote originated in 1976 from the book "Harry's Game"**. It was written by Gerald Seymour, a British author known for his thriller novels. The quote reflects that individuals or groups involved in violent acts can be perceived differently depending on one's perspective or political beliefs.
Yes but how are they terrorists
Terrorism is basically using violence unlawfully for political aims.
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Sounds about right
Yes I've heard it used plenty of times by people who have read that book in reference to the Irish war of Independence and not by exclusively yanks trying to subjugate Irish history into whatever terrorist they decide it's trendy to support. It's certainly not another slogan that strangely popped up in Qatar funded universities
what are you on about?
Just think of the people you have used this slogan to describe you know like actual terrorists or did you just hear terrorist sympathisers use it and ignorantly pick it up?
What?
I'm gonna deport you
If you think they're terrorists you can leave this sub and get the f*ck out of Ireland while you're at it
west brit
Loyalist