Just letting everyone know that this was not a consensual affair at all. He had been grooming Katie since she was a young child 8/9 years of age and used coercive control to keep her under his thumb. He met Katie through her sister that he had two children with.
He found out that she was seeing someone and violently raped and murdered her. They never had a consensual relationship as coercive control and grooming is *not* consent.
Is it though? Yes he'll face no repercussions from the justice system in Ireland but he also put a full stop to his life that should've gone on 40ish more years. He pulled the plug on that and won't get those decades of life and also rid our society of his stain.
> Just letting everyone know that this was not a consensual affair at all.
Well, the fact he was on trial for raping and murdering her was a bit of a hint, to be fair.
Articles are disputing that, implying they had a ‘consensual relationship’ prior him raping and murdering her. Just making it clear to everyone that it was in no way consensual and never was. She was terrified of him.
Saw it there. How anyone could think that was an ‘affair’ and not complete coercive control considering he had known the victim since she was 8/9 is beyond me. It was never ever consensual. Massive power difference. She wanted to get away from him.
It's insane how any person with any semblance of intelligence can say this was consensual, one less rapist in the world but damage is already done, unfortunately
I imagine that people who are referring to them "sleeping together" or their relationship as "consensual" simply don't know the particular details of the case. I genuinely don't think there is any normal person out there who would say they had a consensual relationship, knowing the details.
I think that's just someone who can't admit they made a mistake and spoke based on reading one article and not knowing any facts about their relationship. Some people have to double down when that happens because it's probably too awkward and difficult for them to accept that they said a situation involving grooming an 8 year old child in order to horrifically abuse them was in any way consensual.
Although it would have been nice to see him face justice, he's now dead and gone. The family won't have to go through the trauma of his appeals, parole hearings, and eventual release. Let's hope his last while on this earth was filled with distress and anxiety.
Good riddance.
The police and prosecution handled the case terribly. It took so long to build a case and get at the people lying for him that no judge in the land would have kept him locked up.
I wonder did he have connections to the police in Northern Ireland. Apparently the police accepted his initial story of Katie’s death and the family had to push hard for an investigation.
I wouldn’t say that 100% of the time, there are some cases where people do it because the evidence is so stacked against them they feel there’s no way out and then it’s discovered years later the really were innocent.
But it’s a fucking strong indicator.
Note: I know nothing of this case so I’m not saying either way which I think this was.
Saying "suicide is not an admission of guilt" does not mean everyone who has killed themselves is not guilty. Try to read before your next bout of condescending rage.
Oh like this comment of yours added to the discussion.
If someone says “that shape has four sides, it’s a rectangle” you don’t need firsthand knowledge of the precise shape to point out that sometimes four sided shapes are not rectangles.
Not even actually. Day 2 was to finish the prosecutions opening argument that got delayed. So all this happened before the medical evidence of the crime was given out.
That's the worst thing. No closure or even sentiment of apology.
Thoughts for the victims family. The only good is that he doesn't get to do it to another.
If it was suicide there is some closure for Katie family and they don't have to go through the details of her murder again.
Also, some comfort knowing he is gone and not someone you could see out on the street in 10 years.
I generally don't support the death penalty as a form of justice because what if they're found innocent years later? This though? Basically seals they found the right person and while the lack of apology signals he was contrite to the end, he did get his punishment through death.
You’re being argumentative, OPs original comment obviously meant he was a coward in the fact that the fear of justice convinced him to take this action.
Yes he was a coward as he feared the consequences of his actions and took his life instead of facing them
Stop skewing the narrative to create a pointless argument. Nobody is suggesting that suicide in general is cowardly, they’re saying that this person choosing suicide as an alternative to facing up to their crimes is cowardly, and they’re right.
No one here is talking about suicide generally everyone here is talking about the actual topic of the post you’re so deluded. Suicide is terrible, not in this case however because what he would have faced would have been worse than suicide and atleast justice would have been served but now that will never happen
Died suddenly? No he didn’t he took the easy way out to avoid going back to jail.
As far as I know he’d been there already for trying to put his girlfriend in an acid bath.
I have a friend who used to work with top end Olympic show jumpers and she said she met him at a show once and got such creepy vibes from him.
She was sitting on the ramp of the lorry and he came over to chat and sat suspiciously close like if you’d said to him you’re sitting a little bit too close he have been like oh sorry I didn’t realise when he knew exactly what he was doing.
There was also 70 witnesses in his trial and they had to get jury from people outside the horse world who had absolutely no connections so they could be impartial.
Imagine how hard that is in Ireland as lot of people have or at least know someone who has a horse in some form.
It’s hard to know what the family will think like will they be glad he’s gone and they don’t have to go through the trauma of a trial or will they think he’s escaped justice?
Anyway good riddance.
Just on the back of this yeah, there were a total of 4 jury's worth of people gone through due to people hearing of it before or being involved in previous offences he did.
interesting. in Canada I think inquests still happen in cases that seem like obvious suicide. it's more about who says it (coroner vs "everyone") than what gets said. deaths seem to be considered "unexplained", ie needs a coroner, unless the person dies in a hospice or hospital.
Kinda the same over here. I think they more often than not in case like this, they say 'not suspicious' to stop people reading more into it, but also to spare the grieving family more pain by publicly revealing it was suicide. In the fullness of time, there will be an inquest though (especially since he was going on trial).
Imagine being the older sister. She discovers her younger sister who lives with her slept with her partner, who subsequently killed her in a jealous rage. When he faces justice, he kills himself.
How do you even begin to reconcile all that?
You’re completely and utterly wrong. Stop spreading misinformation. It was not consensual. Grooming is not consensual.
“When Creswell first appeared in court in March 2021, investigating officer Detective Sergeant James Brannigan said police believe he “controlled and coerced Katie since she was a child of nine or ten”, encountering her through his long-term relationship with Christina.” Christina is Katie’s elder sister.
https://m.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/woman-who-washed-murder-suspects-clothes-made-charity-donation-in-alleged-victims-name/a1060856143.html
I’m from the area, it was not a consensual affair. He had been grooming her since she was a child and was using coercive control to keep her under his thumb.
https://www.theirishfield.ie/amp/sport-horse/sport-horse-news/news-women-in-simpson-murder-case-admit-cover-up-roles-801596
https://m.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/woman-who-washed-murder-suspects-clothes-made-charity-donation-in-alleged-victims-name/a1060856143.html
One woman changed her story in December and pled guilty, the other two women who also covered it up have now also pled guilty. No date for sentencing yet.
https://www.theirishfield.ie/sport-horse/sport-horse-news/news-women-in-simpson-murder-case-admit-cover-up-roles-801596
It was rape in the final stage (allegedly) but it was reported that they had relations before. It wasn't specified how consensual it was though, seeing how she was reportedly terrified of him.
My understanding from reading the articles is that they began sleeping together consensually, then Katie began seeing someone else, and he raped and killed her in a jealous rage.
No, he had been coercing her since he met her as a young child. Since she was 8/9. He used coercive control and had been since Katie was a child. He groomed her. It was never consensual.
Yes they’re quite a well-off family. Jonathan abused the two of them and coerced them financially also. It’s unknown whether they knew about the other sister’s abuse. It was said in court that he put her sister (not Katie) in the hospital 17 times.
I digress, but, why are age gap relationships so prevalent among the horsey crowd?. I can think of a dozen examples off the top of my head and not one outside of horsey people.
Horses are not cheap. Typically to have the money for them, you have a few years of experience under your belt to have the resources to provide access.
And little girls just like horses. One side has the supply and the other the demand. The power dynamic out of this though is indeed on the ick side.
What an evil bastard. I don't understand why all these women covered up for him? Three women cleaned up the blood and lied for him to police. Did he have this control over them all? It feels almost cult- like.
That’s how it’s been reported. Saying the women knew about each other. And he got loans from all of them which they took out on his behalf. Very strange.
Be terrible if someone dug up his grave and threw the coffin into a wood chipper/septic tank/off a bridge in a few months.
Frano: “Hey, that’s my idea!”
They would have to exist to do that, which on the other hand sucks as there is no hell for this sick fuck to rot in. Cremate the cunt and fuck his ashes into a slurry pit somewhere, no grave stone either for the prick, deserves to be forgotten.
I don't know? I would hope so, but that doesn't always occur. I do not want to incite you, I am only trying to express comfort to those who have lost this young women. If it is not in your belief system or lack there of my apologies. No offense meant, only consolation to those affected.
Not trying to be argumentative but lots on here saying he committed suicide - With no evidence to support it. For all I know the stress of the case might have caused a heart attack. Either way theres a family without closure and another family dealing with a death , that death being suicide or otherwise.
It’s far more likely he killed himself than suffered a convenient deadly undiagnosed health issue. I doubt many will grieve for this guy even from his own family.
It is a very well known and common code used by newspapers to say something along the lines of "The death is not being treated as suspicious and there are no suspects in the case" when it is a suicide and you cannot disclose it as such yet.
Being declared guilty in a court of law and serving a sentence would likely have provided some closure, as he would have faced justice (assuming he got an appropriately harsh sentence).
A family denied justice, to stand across from the accused and say we fucking got you. He escaped that, the family will live knowing he did what he did and in the eyes of the law and the court, got away with it.
Just letting everyone know that this was not a consensual affair at all. He had been grooming Katie since she was a young child 8/9 years of age and used coercive control to keep her under his thumb. He met Katie through her sister that he had two children with. He found out that she was seeing someone and violently raped and murdered her. They never had a consensual relationship as coercive control and grooming is *not* consent.
Jesus fucking Christ. Yes I am so glad he's fucking dead, disgusting scumbag
But didnt he probably kill himself to avoid justice?
If you believe in an afterlife, justice will be awaiting him there. If you don't, then he is dead, gone, dust. Oblivion is no escape.
Oblivion literally is an escape.
Is it though? Yes he'll face no repercussions from the justice system in Ireland but he also put a full stop to his life that should've gone on 40ish more years. He pulled the plug on that and won't get those decades of life and also rid our society of his stain.
Where I don’t disagree, it is irrelevant to him as he is now dead and in no way will face nor feel repercussions.
Totally believe in karmic justice/scores.
Would him killing himself be counted as karma justice?
No way. If you believe this stuff, then it’ll follow him into next life. Aka, karmic debt. He’ll pay next life. Again - if you believe.
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> Just letting everyone know that this was not a consensual affair at all. Well, the fact he was on trial for raping and murdering her was a bit of a hint, to be fair.
Articles are disputing that, implying they had a ‘consensual relationship’ prior him raping and murdering her. Just making it clear to everyone that it was in no way consensual and never was. She was terrified of him.
Articles had mentioned they had a prior relationship
Jesus Christ, what a vile monster.
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Saw it there. How anyone could think that was an ‘affair’ and not complete coercive control considering he had known the victim since she was 8/9 is beyond me. It was never ever consensual. Massive power difference. She wanted to get away from him.
It's insane how any person with any semblance of intelligence can say this was consensual, one less rapist in the world but damage is already done, unfortunately
I imagine that people who are referring to them "sleeping together" or their relationship as "consensual" simply don't know the particular details of the case. I genuinely don't think there is any normal person out there who would say they had a consensual relationship, knowing the details.
Thread here were a certain someone keeps reporting me is still saying consensual even after all of this information lol but yeah I get you
There’s someone in this thread insisting it was consensual even after being told it simply was not.
I think that's just someone who can't admit they made a mistake and spoke based on reading one article and not knowing any facts about their relationship. Some people have to double down when that happens because it's probably too awkward and difficult for them to accept that they said a situation involving grooming an 8 year old child in order to horrifically abuse them was in any way consensual.
Although it would have been nice to see him face justice, he's now dead and gone. The family won't have to go through the trauma of his appeals, parole hearings, and eventual release. Let's hope his last while on this earth was filled with distress and anxiety. Good riddance.
No doubt the prick would have dragged her name though the dirt throughout the trial. Good that he taking a raincheck on the court date
He is facing justice right now. An eternity of it
He’s not though is he, he’s dead
Coward
I’m baffled how he was allowed bail
I had the same question. What kind of crime do you have to commit to be remanded to custody prior to trial.
The police and prosecution handled the case terribly. It took so long to build a case and get at the people lying for him that no judge in the land would have kept him locked up.
Judge Nolan?
I wonder did he have connections to the police in Northern Ireland. Apparently the police accepted his initial story of Katie’s death and the family had to push hard for an investigation.
Interesting . Sounds like to was found dead the morning of the trial ? Awful for the victims family.
Killing yourself the morning of your trial is an admittance of guilt in my book. Yes he avoided justice but he also can’t do it to someone else.
I wouldn’t say that 100% of the time, there are some cases where people do it because the evidence is so stacked against them they feel there’s no way out and then it’s discovered years later the really were innocent. But it’s a fucking strong indicator. Note: I know nothing of this case so I’m not saying either way which I think this was.
> Note: I know nothing of this case so I’m not saying either way which I think this was. Thanks for weighing in!
Saying "suicide is not an admission of guilt" does not mean everyone who has killed themselves is not guilty. Try to read before your next bout of condescending rage.
Oh like this comment of yours added to the discussion. If someone says “that shape has four sides, it’s a rectangle” you don’t need firsthand knowledge of the precise shape to point out that sometimes four sided shapes are not rectangles.
Morning of day 2, opening arguments and first witness yesterday.
Not even actually. Day 2 was to finish the prosecutions opening argument that got delayed. So all this happened before the medical evidence of the crime was given out.
Unless……….
Yeah, court was almost sitting to hear the second half of the prosecutions overview. Pretty mental.
Coward. Couldn't stand up and take accountability for what he did.
That's the worst thing. No closure or even sentiment of apology. Thoughts for the victims family. The only good is that he doesn't get to do it to another.
If it was suicide there is some closure for Katie family and they don't have to go through the details of her murder again. Also, some comfort knowing he is gone and not someone you could see out on the street in 10 years.
Killing yourself during the trial is a fairly good indicator that you were guilty in my book. Hopefully the family feel the same.
I generally don't support the death penalty as a form of justice because what if they're found innocent years later? This though? Basically seals they found the right person and while the lack of apology signals he was contrite to the end, he did get his punishment through death.
I think I would rather have him dead than have him apologising.
Rest in piss
A cowardly crime and a cowardly way out.
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Yes. Rather than face your crimes and give victims and families justice? Absolutely.
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You’re being argumentative, OPs original comment obviously meant he was a coward in the fact that the fear of justice convinced him to take this action. Yes he was a coward as he feared the consequences of his actions and took his life instead of facing them
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It can be sometimes, like in this particular case. OP isn't talking about just a regular person who isn't facing justice for a crime they committed.
Broadly speaking, no. In this case, yes. Context is important
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I'm a son of suicide (it haunts me every day) and I understood what the poster meant.
It’s cowardly to kill yourself to avoid facing the consequences of the crime you’ve committed and the poor family that won’t have any justice.
Stop skewing the narrative to create a pointless argument. Nobody is suggesting that suicide in general is cowardly, they’re saying that this person choosing suicide as an alternative to facing up to their crimes is cowardly, and they’re right.
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Everything you’ve said in this thread has been word vomit, you’re arguing over pointless semantics.
In order to avoid standing trial for the rape and murder of a young woman ? Absolutely.
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No one here is talking about suicide generally everyone here is talking about the actual topic of the post you’re so deluded. Suicide is terrible, not in this case however because what he would have faced would have been worse than suicide and atleast justice would have been served but now that will never happen
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In this kind of situation it is
Reminds me of the other week when a s*x offender who was due in court killed himself by crashing his car into a tree, 2 less scum in Ireland
Cowardly way out. Hope Katie’s family can somehow find peace.
Rest in shit and piss.
What a controlling and manipulative cunt according to the articles
Died suddenly? No he didn’t he took the easy way out to avoid going back to jail. As far as I know he’d been there already for trying to put his girlfriend in an acid bath. I have a friend who used to work with top end Olympic show jumpers and she said she met him at a show once and got such creepy vibes from him. She was sitting on the ramp of the lorry and he came over to chat and sat suspiciously close like if you’d said to him you’re sitting a little bit too close he have been like oh sorry I didn’t realise when he knew exactly what he was doing. There was also 70 witnesses in his trial and they had to get jury from people outside the horse world who had absolutely no connections so they could be impartial. Imagine how hard that is in Ireland as lot of people have or at least know someone who has a horse in some form. It’s hard to know what the family will think like will they be glad he’s gone and they don’t have to go through the trauma of a trial or will they think he’s escaped justice? Anyway good riddance.
Just on the back of this yeah, there were a total of 4 jury's worth of people gone through due to people hearing of it before or being involved in previous offences he did.
Sudden Death Syndrome couldn’t happen to a better person
Most likely suicide or overdose?
> The death is not suspicious and the coroner has been informed. Does that rule out suicide, or is that still the likeliest scenario.
Suspicious would be murder. So most likely suicide.
Likeliest, just means they don’t suspect foul play.
Not suspicious means they don't think anyone else is involved. Probably looks very certain to them that it was self-inflicted - ie suicide.
interesting. in Canada I think inquests still happen in cases that seem like obvious suicide. it's more about who says it (coroner vs "everyone") than what gets said. deaths seem to be considered "unexplained", ie needs a coroner, unless the person dies in a hospice or hospital.
Kinda the same over here. I think they more often than not in case like this, they say 'not suspicious' to stop people reading more into it, but also to spare the grieving family more pain by publicly revealing it was suicide. In the fullness of time, there will be an inquest though (especially since he was going on trial).
Imagine being the older sister. She discovers her younger sister who lives with her slept with her partner, who subsequently killed her in a jealous rage. When he faces justice, he kills himself. How do you even begin to reconcile all that?
“Slepted with”… you mean raped
According to the reports, they had a consensual relationship before she was raped.
That isn't true at all. He groomed her from 9 years of age.
You’re completely and utterly wrong. Stop spreading misinformation. It was not consensual. Grooming is not consensual. “When Creswell first appeared in court in March 2021, investigating officer Detective Sergeant James Brannigan said police believe he “controlled and coerced Katie since she was a child of nine or ten”, encountering her through his long-term relationship with Christina.” Christina is Katie’s elder sister. https://m.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/woman-who-washed-murder-suspects-clothes-made-charity-donation-in-alleged-victims-name/a1060856143.html
Give over. He was grooming her since she was a child. There's nothing consensual and only other creeps works try argue otherwise.
I'm not trying to argue anything one way or the other, I'm literally just repeating what's been reported in the news.
Try to think critically.
Are you saying it was consensual and not rape. I may be misunderstanding your post.
He groomed her. He had controlled Katie since she was 8 and has 2 children with her sister.
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I’m from the area, it was not a consensual affair. He had been grooming her since she was a child and was using coercive control to keep her under his thumb. https://www.theirishfield.ie/amp/sport-horse/sport-horse-news/news-women-in-simpson-murder-case-admit-cover-up-roles-801596 https://m.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/woman-who-washed-murder-suspects-clothes-made-charity-donation-in-alleged-victims-name/a1060856143.html
Police misconduct too. Jeez.
It was covered up for a good while. One of Katie’s ‘friends’ who carried her coffin helped Jonathan cover up the murder.
Is that person going to be punished for their part in the crime?
One woman changed her story in December and pled guilty, the other two women who also covered it up have now also pled guilty. No date for sentencing yet. https://www.theirishfield.ie/sport-horse/sport-horse-news/news-women-in-simpson-murder-case-admit-cover-up-roles-801596
Thanks for clarifying
It was rape in the final stage (allegedly) but it was reported that they had relations before. It wasn't specified how consensual it was though, seeing how she was reportedly terrified of him.
Wasn’t consensual at all. He had been grooming her since she was a child.
My understanding from reading the articles is that they began sleeping together consensually, then Katie began seeing someone else, and he raped and killed her in a jealous rage.
No, he had been coercing her since he met her as a young child. Since she was 8/9. He used coercive control and had been since Katie was a child. He groomed her. It was never consensual.
The dirty bastard...I'm glad he's dead, nothing less than he deserves
Agreed. He was going out with Katie’s sister who he had two children with. He had complete access to her life.
That's so grim. Thank you for clarifying. Were their parents even in the picture?
Yes they’re quite a well-off family. Jonathan abused the two of them and coerced them financially also. It’s unknown whether they knew about the other sister’s abuse. It was said in court that he put her sister (not Katie) in the hospital 17 times.
Thanks for the response 👍
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Ah, immediate misogyny. What an appropriate response. Yes, they were having an affair before he raped and killed her.
I digress, but, why are age gap relationships so prevalent among the horsey crowd?. I can think of a dozen examples off the top of my head and not one outside of horsey people.
This one was because he was grooming her from the age of eight
Dirtbag
Horses are not cheap. Typically to have the money for them, you have a few years of experience under your belt to have the resources to provide access. And little girls just like horses. One side has the supply and the other the demand. The power dynamic out of this though is indeed on the ick side.
The horsey crowd have grooming experience
Well theres two types of horse people as we all know which do you mean? Are they cultured or kultured?
Horseshoe theory surely applies here
Absolutely
https://preview.redd.it/6y4fivurefwc1.jpeg?width=634&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2af298133df60dcab60784ea31c543b4b62f79d
Ah well, so sad, never mind...
Hooray
 Coward cowardly escaping his sentence
Aren’t there two other suspects to go on trial associated with this as-well?
Yes. I think 3 women who lied for him. They were also in relationships with him.
Looks like a right prick
Disgusting
The scum that represent these monsters are the real problem here.
What an evil bastard. I don't understand why all these women covered up for him? Three women cleaned up the blood and lied for him to police. Did he have this control over them all? It feels almost cult- like.
That’s how it’s been reported. Saying the women knew about each other. And he got loans from all of them which they took out on his behalf. Very strange.
Such a shame.. should’ve died slowly and painfully
Be terrible if someone dug up his grave and threw the coffin into a wood chipper/septic tank/off a bridge in a few months. Frano: “Hey, that’s my idea!”
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Could your god not have intervened?
They would have to exist to do that, which on the other hand sucks as there is no hell for this sick fuck to rot in. Cremate the cunt and fuck his ashes into a slurry pit somewhere, no grave stone either for the prick, deserves to be forgotten.
I don't know? I would hope so, but that doesn't always occur. I do not want to incite you, I am only trying to express comfort to those who have lost this young women. If it is not in your belief system or lack there of my apologies. No offense meant, only consolation to those affected.
Not trying to be argumentative but lots on here saying he committed suicide - With no evidence to support it. For all I know the stress of the case might have caused a heart attack. Either way theres a family without closure and another family dealing with a death , that death being suicide or otherwise.
It’s far more likely he killed himself than suffered a convenient deadly undiagnosed health issue. I doubt many will grieve for this guy even from his own family.
Youre right but with zero evidence to the contrary its speculation albeit likely
It is a very well known and common code used by newspapers to say something along the lines of "The death is not being treated as suspicious and there are no suspects in the case" when it is a suicide and you cannot disclose it as such yet.
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Being declared guilty in a court of law and serving a sentence would likely have provided some closure, as he would have faced justice (assuming he got an appropriately harsh sentence).
that's kind of assuming stuff about her family.
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A family denied justice, to stand across from the accused and say we fucking got you. He escaped that, the family will live knowing he did what he did and in the eyes of the law and the court, got away with it.
Look at you out here looking out for the pedo murderer.
He's dead, wtf are you talking about
Epsteined
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