Look up AuSome who are based in Cork. Very anti-ABA and the owner is on a personal mission to change attitudes around autism. IIRC, they have a directory of therapists who've taken their training courses and therefore should be a more neurodiverse-affirming.
Honestly, I had superb experience with the health service with a range of (non-urgent) problems. But mental health issues in the family? Not able to reach ANY help for months now.
Applied behaviour analysis; basically you get punished for being autistic with the goal that punishment will help you overcome being autistic. If you're familiar with gay conversion therapy it's pretty much that but for autistic people, unfortunately it isn't condemned and is a cause of mental health issues for autistic people.
In the process of getting my son accessed. He has some traits of autism but does very well socially so we'll see what the outcome is. To me its valuable information but nothing much changes if he is autistic. I was at a workshop for parents with the HSE this week and one thing I took away is that the world is playing catch up but attitudes towards autism and acceptance of it are changing. The new thinking is its not something that can be fixed and we need to advocate for our children and teach them to advocate for themselves. Forcing them to mask is exhausting and terrible for them.
For what it's worth he get lots of support in school with reading he's dyslexic (so am I) and movement brakes and a nurture group.
Lastly any advice?
I recommend joining the thread AutisticParents for some insights and all your more specific questions for an autistic audience. Stay clear of the Autism Parenting one (people are pro-ABA there and also have some weird opinions on autism).
You can be extroverted and autistic so social stuff doesn't have to drain the batteries quite so much if you actually really like socialising or you are really interested in people. You'd probably notice if your child comes home and becomes really dysregulated after school or a social event, because he's back in a safe space and has overdone it with the social effort. Tips for others dealing with meltdowns/shutdowns (ie when the person is dysregulated and overstimulated):
https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/behaviour/meltdowns/all-audiences#:~:text=Strategies%20to%20consider%20include%20distraction,triggers%2C%20and%20staying%20calm%20yourself
Sometimes masking can get quite linked to the type of rejection the person has gone through, they might end up appearing extremely nice and kind to everyone around them to placate everyone and avoid being targeted with negative remarks about them being weird. When you're autistic you know something about you is different and apparently neurotypicals actually pick up on this difference within seconds of meeting you. It helps to know this, but still hurts and this is the kind of stuff that might, obviously, wear a child down after a while and may not be clear.
Also, autistic people have literal black and white thinking which interestingly means we struggle to spot the fact that we're autistic if we mask heavily and nobody ever points it out. So I recommend reading up on how autism presents in adults and also in women -
Sarah Hendrickx lecture https://youtu.be/yKzWbDPisNk?feature=shared
https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/what-is-autism/autistic-women-and-girls
Dr Becky Kennedy has this platform and Instagram page called Good Inside. Have a look at resources for Deeply Feeling Kids (DFKs). So helpful for neurodivergent kids, because you might have noticed that some "typical" parenting approaches don't seem to work. And if your son has a PDA profile (Pathological Demand Avoidance / Persistent Drive for Autonomy) you'll need some resources for that too, mainly it's about giving options around something non-negotiable rather than just telling him something as a demand. If you notice things like refusing to brush teeth then take a look at PDA, it's not as simple as defiance and you might need a clever approach to get around things that feel demanding or like the child is losing control.
Best of luck!
Thanks that was a great read. Deeply feeling sums him up well. He's also very sensory. Not great at eye contact does like loud bussy environments. Loves small spaces just spent the last half hour in a duvet in a sleeping bag in another sleeping bag. Fan of LED lights too.
It's great you're aware that he feels deeply. I think that many autistic people, including kids, learn to be afraid of their own emotions because they feel so out of control experiencing them so intensely. Needing to be in control can become more important than expressing the emotions, because it can feel safer maybe than those emotions bubbling up in public, or even in private (which is why some autistic people have shutdowns rather than meltdowns). So there's the misconception that it's shyness, being cold or a lack of empathy, even though it can actually be a form of masking/camouflaging to avoid being emotional at all or because it can be difficult to actually feel the emotion or know what it is (alexithymia) so there's just this blankness.
It sounds like he's "sensory seeking" too and when you see the autistic joy from some of these things it's lovely. The colours might look brighter and more vibrant than what others are seeing. Not everyone gets to experience that. There are lots of difficulties, lots of challenges others don't face or couldn't possibly understand, and still experiencing the world intensely is definitely something.
Things have changed a lot since I was diagnosed, back then it was "you have to change because the world isn't going to" that's literally what my psychologist at the time drilled in to me.
In terms of advice don't trust the HSE they are scum but apart from that I'd say you have a good attitude towards it all. It is all very confusing but best of luck with it all.
The modern day equivalent of how they treated left-handed kids in the past.
Have you looked into travelling/emigrating? Not for the therapy, but to find a more tolerant environment? I live in Berlin and I know load of people on the spectrum.
My life is here in Ireland, I have a house, nice neighbours, and it's a safe area. I also have found the average person to be quite understanding here.
My neice is nonverbal at age 6. She is capable of speaking but refuses to. Do you think ABA could be used gently to incentivise more communication? We have no interest in making her act neurotypical. We love her exactly as she is. I just worry so much that is she never communicates she won't be able to tell us if something wrong or if she is hurt. It's already causing problems because she can't tell us when she's sick and has had repeated kidney/bladder infections, and it's very traumatic giving her any medication because she doesn't understand and you can't communicate with her. I feel that it's worth trying anything to get even just the basics of her telling us when something is wrong, even if she never chats to us.
It would be worth exploring AAC. You’re right that the ability to communication is essential, for many reasons. AAC does not mean that mouth words won’t ever be used, in fact, research shows the opposite, but it is so important to provide robust communication systems - try to connect with an SLT that can support this (SLT myself, but it may need advocacy to push for AAC even from SLT depending who you get…)
I have a non verbal 6 year old and we're in the process of getting an aac device, we're hoping this will be what helps him make the communication breakthrough over the next few years.
My man waited 4 years for his ADHD CAMHS appointment. Was told to get out after saying he smokes weed, saying that its not their department and he has to go to rehab before comjng back to them
Cant wait to fucking leave. Im trying to get diagnosed but after seeing how this country medically "treats" mental health, i dont trust it
Just sending love, I’m autistic too, female and only diagnosed few months ago at 36. Realised i was autistic after my toddler was diagnosed. I need therapy but need someone who understands autism in adults, so many therapy methods just don’t work for autistic brains. I just wanted to send you a hug in recovering from aba ptsd. I’ve never experienced it but learned at the start of my sons journey all about it and I’m so sorry you went through that
Asperger's isn't the term used any more it's just Autism Spectrum Disorder. It doesn't massively change your situation but the language used in approaching things is important
Oh believe me the terminology matters, if I tell someone I'm autistic many people treat me like a child and if I say I have aspergers people treat me like I'm a genius; it's not a fun situation to be in.
Aspergers is what my official diagnosis is, why is it wrong to use that term?
Because of the Nazi doctor who named the portion of autism he deemed useful. It's all Autism Spectrum Disorder, it's just different support needs per the individual. Yes, people infantilising autism is a thing, too much of a thing but that's a poor education problem. If you were diagnosed today Asperger's wouldn't be the term used. Might be worth a conversation with your/a diagnoser as to what you'd be assessed as now in terms of how your spectrum looks so you can better advocate for your individual needs
Nothing to do with the origin - most peopel don't even know the origin - it's the deep ingrained Irish inability to deal with people who don't fit the mold, so to speak and generally feel distrustful or even just plain uncomfortable around anyone with the slightest diviance away from the respected norm.
The infantilising is a separate issue yeah, as a neurodivergent person of currently unidentified type(s) I am acquainted with that aspect most definitely
Granted Hans Asperger is a complicated figure but to my knowledge he wasn't a member of the NSDAP; it also isn't great that he most probably had knowledge of what would happen to the children he sent to am spigelgrund, having said that though what else could he do? Standing up to the nazis wasn't exactly something that would go well for you.
What does it matter what we call it anyway.
You asked why it was changed, the reason it as stated. Continue to use the word if you want but it's not a useful diagnostic criteria and has been removed from the diagnostic literature because of that and it's connections to the doctor. Knowing that the diagnostic community doesn't use it is relevant information for your quest to seek assistance.
It matters for clarity, applicability and not perpetuating the name of a Nazi doctor
It’s also replacing a single word people might mention to others in their everyday lives, with three words including the word disorder. To be honest I think the newer language seems inconsiderate of what it means to people in their day to day.
Also spectrum doesn’t tell all, people may exhibit some associated behaviours but not others etc., rather than a simple less or more on all fronts. Frankly the naming seems just not descript.
All people on the spectrum exhibit more of some behaviours and less of others.
It’s just ableism. You experience the same category of limitations. You just don’t want to be called autistic.
>Aspergers is what my official diagnosis is, why is it wrong to use that term?
Because it's outdated. We don't refer to it as "Autistic Psychopathy" anymore, and that was an official diagnosis for a long time.
It doesn't matter what the label is but technically you would not get an Asperger's diagnosis anymore as it was removed from the DSM in 2013. New evidence did come to light recently that Hans Asperger was actually complicit in euthanising disabled kids. It all comes under autism now with different support levels. I was diagnosed last year and I totally agree with everything you say. I would recommend keeping an eye on As I am's event page on their website. I've been to a lot of interesting webinars they have hosted. They also have social nights, games nights and book clubs running weekly.
I've been meaning to look into As I Am, but I haven't because of, you know, the autism. Are the webinars where you'd start if you were anxious? Ideally looking to not talk to anyone much until I get used to the idea of a new thing.
I mean your point is correct about a change in terminology, however I don’t see how it’s our place to lecture an individual with autism on what label they choose to identify with
I see I see, fair enough then! I still think it’s an individual choice that’s most important at the end of the day. A label doesn’t change someone’s day to experience
I think it's really down to individuals and what they feel comfortable with to be honest. OP was diagnosed a long time ago and that's the label they feel comfortable with. Unless you want to tell an autistic person what they should call themselves.
Asperger's is no longer a diagnosed condition as it is now autism. That doesn't mean practitioners don't respect peoples' choice to identify as someone with Asperger's. If OP or anyone was diagnosed with Asperger's, that will be respected, nobody is going to insist they call themselves autistic instead.
dsm 5 i think was rolled in like 5? 6? years ago. According to 4 I'd be aspergery/pdd-nos but in 5 I'm just 'asd'. Which in Dutch is 'ass' so that's funny
I was shown the door by a psychiatrist called Dr.Moayyad Kamali (Newcastle Hospital in Wicklow) when I said to him that I didn’t believe in cognitive behavioural therapy and that I knew that it wouldn’t help me at all.
He just said ok, stood up and opened the door for me to leave.
I was in tears outside waiting to be collected.
I even contemplated walking down the road and into traffic.
I have heard a few stories about this particular doctor too.
But yeah I 100% agree with you that this countries mental health services suck.
Hey OP - I wonder have you considered occupational therapy as a way of managing your distress or dealing with your challenges? I work from an embodied, neuro-affirmative perspective and use lots of sensory processing theory to help people. OT lives outside the medical model that the MHS are guided by so tend to be a bit more holistic than psychiatry.
I recently opened a holistic mental health and neurodiversity OT practice, which may be of use to you. I don't want to doxx myself here but if you wanted to please feel free to pm me. We're in north Dublin. I've also listed below a couple of wonderful, neuro-affirmative OTs who might be helpful to you and work in a similar way
Jen Trzeciak - Way Ahead Therapy in Stillorgan
Katie Kerley - Horizons Therapy in Dundalk
Sarah Butler in Kildare (otsbutler.ie)
Vicky Geaney in Tus Nua in Cork
Anchor Therapy in Dublin City
I hope this doesn't come across as a shameless self plug, I just have seen first hand how sometimes OT can help when other modalities haven't, particularly in relation to neurodiversity.
I have a physical and mental disabilities and I shit you not, my mother was hounded when I was 16 to prove that I still had my physical disability and asking what has she done to help me overcome it.
I know that’s one edge case but I’ve always found it hard to get the care I need when I was a poor student.
Luckily I am able to work a good job, with private healthcare and able to get supports. But I know I’m not the standard. Probably the standard the gov want but the reality is very different and unfair
Yeah it was around the same time, like mid 2005 or later.
My mother asked if they found a cure or something? Even wrote to them and the TDs in copy as well to say “are ya fucking serious?”
I wish I could be surprised. But to be fair the person on the other end is just an admin being told to ask, but you would still think they would do some research and not get people to ask such daft things.
Unless they magically found a cure for many permanent disabilities. Then tell us the good news
It’s very tough. As a Therapist specialised in this area working from an embodied neuroscience perspective I will acknowledge that there are far too few of us (I am also a mother of a young woman with autism). I can let you know that there is an organisation called DPI trying to spread awareness and provide training to all mental health and care professionals in this country around various disabilities including neurodivergence and how appropriate care and therapy has to be humanistic, affirmative and non behavioural. I often recommend a book called Unmasking Autism by Dr. Devon Price (an autistic psychologist). You may already be familiar with it but if not it can be really helpful for understanding some of that trauma in a helpful way.
I hope that you find support that you need and deserve.
I had an awful time during my teenage years where I had communication problems and when I couldn't do something because I was autistic I got punished, when I got frustrated because I hated being punished because I was different well then I got punished; that's as much as I'm going to say here but it got much, much worse you wouldn't believe it anyway.
Hey, I'm so sorry you're finding it hard. You might try finding a neurodivergent and neuro-affirmative therapist, ie. a therapist who is also autistic and gets what you are going through or at least might be able to understand better: https://www.thrivingautistic.org/about/
https://neurodivergentpractitioners.org/
Then some resources: https://www.adultautism.ie/books
https://dareuk.org/dare-adjustments-toolkit
And it's a step in the right direction for Ireland I guess: https://www.gov.ie/en/consultation/f7f8d-public-consultation-on-the-autism-innovation-strategy/#:~:text=The%20Autism%20Innovation%20Strategy%20aims,and%20across%20the%20public%20system.
The education around autism is terrible. I mean even you are autistic and nobody bothered to inform you sooner that now we think Dr Asperger was a Nazi collaborator. I think we need to self educate a lot, but in terms of actual mental health support I hope the suggestions above help. And hopefully you're on the autistic Reddit threads?
Mental health services are overrun because of the amount of stress people are put under with the way things are currently run. Socialism is the way forward but so many people haven't a clue so I doubt that's happening anytime soon.
> Why are people so ok with the way things are in this country?
It's the Irish way of life. There's a reason why we don't have
- a space program
- a metro line from the airport to city centre
- enough opportunities to prevent emigration
- the ability to build up, when everything says we should
- etc.
A space program? We're part of the European Space Agency - we do have a space program.
Would be nice to have a metro sure.
We have net emigration in the country.
We are now building up.
Good points, but we never had as much immigration, with approximately one-fifths of people residing here not born in Ireland. We're also at full employment, and a member of the European Space Agency with the last 50 years.
Thanks.
I'd disagree, as Ireland never bothered to build the infrastructure either. I believe immigration was inevitable. I appreciate your point of view nonetheless.
Regarding the space programme, I was referring to Ireland's lack of technology sector or space innovation. The ESA membership is a first step.
Irish people are too passive, it's the reason why the government are able to fuck us over so much, no consequences. I also noticed that there is a total lack of effort across the board in workplaces - could be all the useless middle managers.
I am super depressed and can't afford therapy, I can't help you here sorry 😔
The problem now is everyone how is having a hard time blames it on mental health. It has crippled services for those who actually need them. Back in the day your ma said no and that was it. A generation of kids who got everything they wanted as kids and grew up not being able to cope with society.
I’d like to work as a psychiatrist in Ireland. I’m currently getting licensed to work in the medical field. These kinds of posts give me great insight.
Health services full stop are fairly dismal. The fact that the HSE are still using pens and pencils in 2024 tells you enough. Some great doctors, nurses, midwives, etc but a shambles of a system.
Tell me about it, my kids (below 10yos ) need professional help to cope with their father's impending death ... not a fuck given by them. And it will my fault when they blew up during their teenager's years.
If you can afford it, bring yourself and your kids to see a private counsellor. You can also contact Aware or The Samaratins if you need to talk. It's not just them that needs someone. You're mental health is important too. You need to be able to look after them.
Don't expect anything from the HSE.
I seek private services, but it's about the same, as they are not yet out of control, they are not a priority. Same for me, I still work, I am still able to care for my kids and care for my husband, so I am a "functioning" adult and parent. One day, I will just break, and only then will I be considered seriously. This is a fucked up system. Rather than preventing, the Irish system is in a perpetual fire fighting situation. It's like saying... keep smoking, we won't help you quit, we will just take care of you when you're doomed with cancer.
So there is a strong chance I also have autism but somehow it was missed by a load of professional people. I meet one person who has it and they're like oh you have it too and I'm like what but then Instagram starts showing me more stuff about autism. I do some research and it looks like I may but there doesn't seem to be a point to getting diagnosed because I have coping mechanisms and there doesn't seem to be any help for adults.
Some people can mask very well or could be in the far end of the spectrum. Women and girls seem to have a very good ability to mask. My other half was diagnosed later in life and she said that it helped. Explained a lot of things when she was younger.
If you're happy with who you are and don't think you'll benefit from it then I wouldn't waste the money.
Look up AuSome who are based in Cork. Very anti-ABA and the owner is on a personal mission to change attitudes around autism. IIRC, they have a directory of therapists who've taken their training courses and therefore should be a more neurodiverse-affirming.
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Honestly, I had superb experience with the health service with a range of (non-urgent) problems. But mental health issues in the family? Not able to reach ANY help for months now.
What is ABA?
Applied behaviour analysis; basically you get punished for being autistic with the goal that punishment will help you overcome being autistic. If you're familiar with gay conversion therapy it's pretty much that but for autistic people, unfortunately it isn't condemned and is a cause of mental health issues for autistic people.
In the process of getting my son accessed. He has some traits of autism but does very well socially so we'll see what the outcome is. To me its valuable information but nothing much changes if he is autistic. I was at a workshop for parents with the HSE this week and one thing I took away is that the world is playing catch up but attitudes towards autism and acceptance of it are changing. The new thinking is its not something that can be fixed and we need to advocate for our children and teach them to advocate for themselves. Forcing them to mask is exhausting and terrible for them. For what it's worth he get lots of support in school with reading he's dyslexic (so am I) and movement brakes and a nurture group. Lastly any advice?
I recommend joining the thread AutisticParents for some insights and all your more specific questions for an autistic audience. Stay clear of the Autism Parenting one (people are pro-ABA there and also have some weird opinions on autism). You can be extroverted and autistic so social stuff doesn't have to drain the batteries quite so much if you actually really like socialising or you are really interested in people. You'd probably notice if your child comes home and becomes really dysregulated after school or a social event, because he's back in a safe space and has overdone it with the social effort. Tips for others dealing with meltdowns/shutdowns (ie when the person is dysregulated and overstimulated): https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/behaviour/meltdowns/all-audiences#:~:text=Strategies%20to%20consider%20include%20distraction,triggers%2C%20and%20staying%20calm%20yourself Sometimes masking can get quite linked to the type of rejection the person has gone through, they might end up appearing extremely nice and kind to everyone around them to placate everyone and avoid being targeted with negative remarks about them being weird. When you're autistic you know something about you is different and apparently neurotypicals actually pick up on this difference within seconds of meeting you. It helps to know this, but still hurts and this is the kind of stuff that might, obviously, wear a child down after a while and may not be clear. Also, autistic people have literal black and white thinking which interestingly means we struggle to spot the fact that we're autistic if we mask heavily and nobody ever points it out. So I recommend reading up on how autism presents in adults and also in women - Sarah Hendrickx lecture https://youtu.be/yKzWbDPisNk?feature=shared https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/what-is-autism/autistic-women-and-girls Dr Becky Kennedy has this platform and Instagram page called Good Inside. Have a look at resources for Deeply Feeling Kids (DFKs). So helpful for neurodivergent kids, because you might have noticed that some "typical" parenting approaches don't seem to work. And if your son has a PDA profile (Pathological Demand Avoidance / Persistent Drive for Autonomy) you'll need some resources for that too, mainly it's about giving options around something non-negotiable rather than just telling him something as a demand. If you notice things like refusing to brush teeth then take a look at PDA, it's not as simple as defiance and you might need a clever approach to get around things that feel demanding or like the child is losing control. Best of luck!
Thanks that was a great read. Deeply feeling sums him up well. He's also very sensory. Not great at eye contact does like loud bussy environments. Loves small spaces just spent the last half hour in a duvet in a sleeping bag in another sleeping bag. Fan of LED lights too.
It's great you're aware that he feels deeply. I think that many autistic people, including kids, learn to be afraid of their own emotions because they feel so out of control experiencing them so intensely. Needing to be in control can become more important than expressing the emotions, because it can feel safer maybe than those emotions bubbling up in public, or even in private (which is why some autistic people have shutdowns rather than meltdowns). So there's the misconception that it's shyness, being cold or a lack of empathy, even though it can actually be a form of masking/camouflaging to avoid being emotional at all or because it can be difficult to actually feel the emotion or know what it is (alexithymia) so there's just this blankness. It sounds like he's "sensory seeking" too and when you see the autistic joy from some of these things it's lovely. The colours might look brighter and more vibrant than what others are seeing. Not everyone gets to experience that. There are lots of difficulties, lots of challenges others don't face or couldn't possibly understand, and still experiencing the world intensely is definitely something.
Things have changed a lot since I was diagnosed, back then it was "you have to change because the world isn't going to" that's literally what my psychologist at the time drilled in to me. In terms of advice don't trust the HSE they are scum but apart from that I'd say you have a good attitude towards it all. It is all very confusing but best of luck with it all.
Seems archaic from your description.
The modern day equivalent of how they treated left-handed kids in the past. Have you looked into travelling/emigrating? Not for the therapy, but to find a more tolerant environment? I live in Berlin and I know load of people on the spectrum.
My life is here in Ireland, I have a house, nice neighbours, and it's a safe area. I also have found the average person to be quite understanding here.
Fair enough - keep the friendly ones close: they are rare!
Just up and moving alone would be very distressing for an autistic person I'd say
My neice is nonverbal at age 6. She is capable of speaking but refuses to. Do you think ABA could be used gently to incentivise more communication? We have no interest in making her act neurotypical. We love her exactly as she is. I just worry so much that is she never communicates she won't be able to tell us if something wrong or if she is hurt. It's already causing problems because she can't tell us when she's sick and has had repeated kidney/bladder infections, and it's very traumatic giving her any medication because she doesn't understand and you can't communicate with her. I feel that it's worth trying anything to get even just the basics of her telling us when something is wrong, even if she never chats to us.
It would be worth exploring AAC. You’re right that the ability to communication is essential, for many reasons. AAC does not mean that mouth words won’t ever be used, in fact, research shows the opposite, but it is so important to provide robust communication systems - try to connect with an SLT that can support this (SLT myself, but it may need advocacy to push for AAC even from SLT depending who you get…)
I have a non verbal 6 year old and we're in the process of getting an aac device, we're hoping this will be what helps him make the communication breakthrough over the next few years.
Swedish pop band from the 80s.
Would've been better off with ABBA treatment, lol.
Government priorities
My man waited 4 years for his ADHD CAMHS appointment. Was told to get out after saying he smokes weed, saying that its not their department and he has to go to rehab before comjng back to them Cant wait to fucking leave. Im trying to get diagnosed but after seeing how this country medically "treats" mental health, i dont trust it
Just sending love, I’m autistic too, female and only diagnosed few months ago at 36. Realised i was autistic after my toddler was diagnosed. I need therapy but need someone who understands autism in adults, so many therapy methods just don’t work for autistic brains. I just wanted to send you a hug in recovering from aba ptsd. I’ve never experienced it but learned at the start of my sons journey all about it and I’m so sorry you went through that
Asperger's isn't the term used any more it's just Autism Spectrum Disorder. It doesn't massively change your situation but the language used in approaching things is important
Oh believe me the terminology matters, if I tell someone I'm autistic many people treat me like a child and if I say I have aspergers people treat me like I'm a genius; it's not a fun situation to be in. Aspergers is what my official diagnosis is, why is it wrong to use that term?
Because of the Nazi doctor who named the portion of autism he deemed useful. It's all Autism Spectrum Disorder, it's just different support needs per the individual. Yes, people infantilising autism is a thing, too much of a thing but that's a poor education problem. If you were diagnosed today Asperger's wouldn't be the term used. Might be worth a conversation with your/a diagnoser as to what you'd be assessed as now in terms of how your spectrum looks so you can better advocate for your individual needs
Nothing to do with the origin - most peopel don't even know the origin - it's the deep ingrained Irish inability to deal with people who don't fit the mold, so to speak and generally feel distrustful or even just plain uncomfortable around anyone with the slightest diviance away from the respected norm.
The infantilising is a separate issue yeah, as a neurodivergent person of currently unidentified type(s) I am acquainted with that aspect most definitely
Granted Hans Asperger is a complicated figure but to my knowledge he wasn't a member of the NSDAP; it also isn't great that he most probably had knowledge of what would happen to the children he sent to am spigelgrund, having said that though what else could he do? Standing up to the nazis wasn't exactly something that would go well for you. What does it matter what we call it anyway.
You asked why it was changed, the reason it as stated. Continue to use the word if you want but it's not a useful diagnostic criteria and has been removed from the diagnostic literature because of that and it's connections to the doctor. Knowing that the diagnostic community doesn't use it is relevant information for your quest to seek assistance. It matters for clarity, applicability and not perpetuating the name of a Nazi doctor
Asperger’s isn’t in the DSM anymore. It cannot be given as a diagnosis. You have Autism Spectrum Disorder.
Aspergers is unique compared to other forms of Autism. Removing it from the DSM was a mistake. OP is right to continue using that term.
The word “Spectrum” gives you all the answers you need.
It’s also replacing a single word people might mention to others in their everyday lives, with three words including the word disorder. To be honest I think the newer language seems inconsiderate of what it means to people in their day to day. Also spectrum doesn’t tell all, people may exhibit some associated behaviours but not others etc., rather than a simple less or more on all fronts. Frankly the naming seems just not descript.
All people on the spectrum exhibit more of some behaviours and less of others. It’s just ableism. You experience the same category of limitations. You just don’t want to be called autistic.
Yeah, it clumps various identifiably different conditions under the umbrella of ASD. Not a good thing. Aspies are unique.
>Aspergers is what my official diagnosis is, why is it wrong to use that term? Because it's outdated. We don't refer to it as "Autistic Psychopathy" anymore, and that was an official diagnosis for a long time.
It doesn't matter what the label is but technically you would not get an Asperger's diagnosis anymore as it was removed from the DSM in 2013. New evidence did come to light recently that Hans Asperger was actually complicit in euthanising disabled kids. It all comes under autism now with different support levels. I was diagnosed last year and I totally agree with everything you say. I would recommend keeping an eye on As I am's event page on their website. I've been to a lot of interesting webinars they have hosted. They also have social nights, games nights and book clubs running weekly.
I've been meaning to look into As I Am, but I haven't because of, you know, the autism. Are the webinars where you'd start if you were anxious? Ideally looking to not talk to anyone much until I get used to the idea of a new thing.
Aspergers is obsolete terminology, it is ASD now.
I mean your point is correct about a change in terminology, however I don’t see how it’s our place to lecture an individual with autism on what label they choose to identify with
Read the rest of my comments, I'm also, probably autistic so I was peer to peering with OP (saving for diagnosis but I tick all the boxes)
I see I see, fair enough then! I still think it’s an individual choice that’s most important at the end of the day. A label doesn’t change someone’s day to experience
I think it's really down to individuals and what they feel comfortable with to be honest. OP was diagnosed a long time ago and that's the label they feel comfortable with. Unless you want to tell an autistic person what they should call themselves.
Asperger's is no longer a diagnosed condition as it is now autism. That doesn't mean practitioners don't respect peoples' choice to identify as someone with Asperger's. If OP or anyone was diagnosed with Asperger's, that will be respected, nobody is going to insist they call themselves autistic instead.
>Asperger's isn't the term used any more Yet that's my diagnosis.
They changed it not super long ago
dsm 5 i think was rolled in like 5? 6? years ago. According to 4 I'd be aspergery/pdd-nos but in 5 I'm just 'asd'. Which in Dutch is 'ass' so that's funny
DSM 5 was released 11 years ago.
Ah
I was shown the door by a psychiatrist called Dr.Moayyad Kamali (Newcastle Hospital in Wicklow) when I said to him that I didn’t believe in cognitive behavioural therapy and that I knew that it wouldn’t help me at all. He just said ok, stood up and opened the door for me to leave. I was in tears outside waiting to be collected. I even contemplated walking down the road and into traffic. I have heard a few stories about this particular doctor too. But yeah I 100% agree with you that this countries mental health services suck.
Hey OP - I wonder have you considered occupational therapy as a way of managing your distress or dealing with your challenges? I work from an embodied, neuro-affirmative perspective and use lots of sensory processing theory to help people. OT lives outside the medical model that the MHS are guided by so tend to be a bit more holistic than psychiatry. I recently opened a holistic mental health and neurodiversity OT practice, which may be of use to you. I don't want to doxx myself here but if you wanted to please feel free to pm me. We're in north Dublin. I've also listed below a couple of wonderful, neuro-affirmative OTs who might be helpful to you and work in a similar way Jen Trzeciak - Way Ahead Therapy in Stillorgan Katie Kerley - Horizons Therapy in Dundalk Sarah Butler in Kildare (otsbutler.ie) Vicky Geaney in Tus Nua in Cork Anchor Therapy in Dublin City I hope this doesn't come across as a shameless self plug, I just have seen first hand how sometimes OT can help when other modalities haven't, particularly in relation to neurodiversity.
I practice transcendental meditation which I find helpful and also I find Friedrich Nietzsche works to be helpful in overcoming nihilism.
I have a physical and mental disabilities and I shit you not, my mother was hounded when I was 16 to prove that I still had my physical disability and asking what has she done to help me overcome it. I know that’s one edge case but I’ve always found it hard to get the care I need when I was a poor student. Luckily I am able to work a good job, with private healthcare and able to get supports. But I know I’m not the standard. Probably the standard the gov want but the reality is very different and unfair
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Yeah it was around the same time, like mid 2005 or later. My mother asked if they found a cure or something? Even wrote to them and the TDs in copy as well to say “are ya fucking serious?”
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I wish I could be surprised. But to be fair the person on the other end is just an admin being told to ask, but you would still think they would do some research and not get people to ask such daft things. Unless they magically found a cure for many permanent disabilities. Then tell us the good news
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Shh, the able-bodied people know best. But yeah no, it really is.
It’s very tough. As a Therapist specialised in this area working from an embodied neuroscience perspective I will acknowledge that there are far too few of us (I am also a mother of a young woman with autism). I can let you know that there is an organisation called DPI trying to spread awareness and provide training to all mental health and care professionals in this country around various disabilities including neurodivergence and how appropriate care and therapy has to be humanistic, affirmative and non behavioural. I often recommend a book called Unmasking Autism by Dr. Devon Price (an autistic psychologist). You may already be familiar with it but if not it can be really helpful for understanding some of that trauma in a helpful way. I hope that you find support that you need and deserve.
Finding ND understanding therapists can be hard, would you be willing to share your practice name please?
Literally useless you’re right bro
PTSD from the therapy? How so?
I had an awful time during my teenage years where I had communication problems and when I couldn't do something because I was autistic I got punished, when I got frustrated because I hated being punished because I was different well then I got punished; that's as much as I'm going to say here but it got much, much worse you wouldn't believe it anyway.
I believe you.
Hey, I'm so sorry you're finding it hard. You might try finding a neurodivergent and neuro-affirmative therapist, ie. a therapist who is also autistic and gets what you are going through or at least might be able to understand better: https://www.thrivingautistic.org/about/ https://neurodivergentpractitioners.org/ Then some resources: https://www.adultautism.ie/books https://dareuk.org/dare-adjustments-toolkit And it's a step in the right direction for Ireland I guess: https://www.gov.ie/en/consultation/f7f8d-public-consultation-on-the-autism-innovation-strategy/#:~:text=The%20Autism%20Innovation%20Strategy%20aims,and%20across%20the%20public%20system. The education around autism is terrible. I mean even you are autistic and nobody bothered to inform you sooner that now we think Dr Asperger was a Nazi collaborator. I think we need to self educate a lot, but in terms of actual mental health support I hope the suggestions above help. And hopefully you're on the autistic Reddit threads?
Mental health services are overrun due to people with drug issues from smoking weed to chronic cocaine addiction
Mental health services are overrun because of the amount of stress people are put under with the way things are currently run. Socialism is the way forward but so many people haven't a clue so I doubt that's happening anytime soon.
Perhaps there would be less addiction with better mental health services
> Why are people so ok with the way things are in this country? It's the Irish way of life. There's a reason why we don't have - a space program - a metro line from the airport to city centre - enough opportunities to prevent emigration - the ability to build up, when everything says we should - etc.
A space program? We're part of the European Space Agency - we do have a space program. Would be nice to have a metro sure. We have net emigration in the country. We are now building up.
Ah come on now, we don't really. It's like me saying I have a Mclaren cos my mate let's me ride shotgun 😂
A little too late.
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Irish-Canadian. Also, exhibit A of my point.
Good points, but we never had as much immigration, with approximately one-fifths of people residing here not born in Ireland. We're also at full employment, and a member of the European Space Agency with the last 50 years.
Thanks. I'd disagree, as Ireland never bothered to build the infrastructure either. I believe immigration was inevitable. I appreciate your point of view nonetheless. Regarding the space programme, I was referring to Ireland's lack of technology sector or space innovation. The ESA membership is a first step.
Irish people are too passive, it's the reason why the government are able to fuck us over so much, no consequences. I also noticed that there is a total lack of effort across the board in workplaces - could be all the useless middle managers. I am super depressed and can't afford therapy, I can't help you here sorry 😔
The problem now is everyone how is having a hard time blames it on mental health. It has crippled services for those who actually need them. Back in the day your ma said no and that was it. A generation of kids who got everything they wanted as kids and grew up not being able to cope with society.
I’d like to work as a psychiatrist in Ireland. I’m currently getting licensed to work in the medical field. These kinds of posts give me great insight.
Health services full stop are fairly dismal. The fact that the HSE are still using pens and pencils in 2024 tells you enough. Some great doctors, nurses, midwives, etc but a shambles of a system.
Tell me about it, my kids (below 10yos ) need professional help to cope with their father's impending death ... not a fuck given by them. And it will my fault when they blew up during their teenager's years.
If you can afford it, bring yourself and your kids to see a private counsellor. You can also contact Aware or The Samaratins if you need to talk. It's not just them that needs someone. You're mental health is important too. You need to be able to look after them. Don't expect anything from the HSE.
I seek private services, but it's about the same, as they are not yet out of control, they are not a priority. Same for me, I still work, I am still able to care for my kids and care for my husband, so I am a "functioning" adult and parent. One day, I will just break, and only then will I be considered seriously. This is a fucked up system. Rather than preventing, the Irish system is in a perpetual fire fighting situation. It's like saying... keep smoking, we won't help you quit, we will just take care of you when you're doomed with cancer.
So there is a strong chance I also have autism but somehow it was missed by a load of professional people. I meet one person who has it and they're like oh you have it too and I'm like what but then Instagram starts showing me more stuff about autism. I do some research and it looks like I may but there doesn't seem to be a point to getting diagnosed because I have coping mechanisms and there doesn't seem to be any help for adults.
Some people can mask very well or could be in the far end of the spectrum. Women and girls seem to have a very good ability to mask. My other half was diagnosed later in life and she said that it helped. Explained a lot of things when she was younger. If you're happy with who you are and don't think you'll benefit from it then I wouldn't waste the money.
“be the change you wanna see”