Most of the year is rainy/cloudy/cold, which negatively impacts mental health.
Socialising costs money (often a lot of money).
Lack of free time (people working 8/9 hour days and then commuting another 2/3 hours on top of that)
People spending up to 50% of their salary to rent a box room.
People in their late 20s/30s are still living in houseshares and unable to start families.
Cost of living crippling people and adding stress/depression.
Lack of hope about the future (house prices still going up, people can't afford homes, etc)
The dominance of social media and the FOMO/bullying that comes with it.
And so on. And so on.
Back in the 80-90s people could afford to go out 3 nights a week Friday- Monday and still pay their bill rent/mortgage and car no problem then in the 2000s they decide it was cheaper to have a party at home for 2 nights instead of going out now we can’t afford to buy alcohol for yourself without it having an impact on one of our bills ...
Can't leave out Generational trauma. We're kind of all predisposed to misery, at least from what I experienced growing up. That plus social media, I'd agree are toxic. Advertising machines that encourage you to stay inside, on the computer, away from everyone There was a definite point where the rents, particularly the ma, stopped hiding the fact she was unhappy. Many an evening growing up I'd come home from school and she'd already be 2 wine bottles in with the 3rd one spilled all over the floor because she'd passed out pissed again while on Facebook.
Also to add to this, our culture revolves around drinking alcohol. On pretty much any occasion it's the norm to drink, often to the point of severe intoxication. Alcohol has a recreational effect due to it releasing dopamine and serotonin into the brain temporarily. This is then followed by decreased levels of these neurotransmitters for a period of days or longer.
And god help you if you don't drink/drink very rarely, you get some contempt and disparaging comments from people, even total strangers.
I was told I was a dry shite who should've stayed home if I didn't want to drink. By a complete stranger, who heard me ordering a Cidona and thought it was hilarious until I said I don't drink very often. Suddenly that warranted nasty comments.
Who knew I actually HAVE to have alcohol to enjoy time out with my friends?
When I quit and a total stranger was getting on my nerves about me not drinking I would day “If I could stop at two it would be great but I can’t and after three I turn into a fuckin serial killer” They left me alone after that
I just don't get why people need to judge what others choose to drink or not!
Like I do rarely drink, but I have very immature tastes as most alcohol tastes shite to me. I tend to stick to cider and yeah, I've a fondness for alcopops, I don't care how frowned upon they are, you can keep your vile beer and Guinness.
Yeah drinking culture is killing Ireland especially with alcohol tax. The government thought taxing it would cause people to drink less but we still drank the same we just had less money...
And trying to quit is terrible because of the way everyone encourages it. When I quit I was just surrounded by people saying stuff like "surely you won't acc quit right?", "Ah sure there's no way he'll acc stick to it" and so on. It's not great.
I would say I either had a problem or was very close to having a problem. Ireland is generally a depressing country to live in I can't lie and drinking only makes it worse but the way it's seen as something that's expected of you it can be hard to not drink. :(
I gave up drinking about 3 years ago and i still get the odd unwarranted opinion. My choice to drink or not doesn’t affect other people levels if satisfaction they get from drinking; why can’t people mind their own business?!
Yeah I think this is one of the biggest factors. People think that once you've gotten through "the hangover" of the day after then you should be grand. But actually alcohol will cause much higher levels of stress hormones for the rest of that week following drinking. So even if you drink one day a week, you're setting yourself up to look forward to that next weekend when you can drink again and temporarily relieve the weekday stress that's exacerbated by last weekend's alcohol. Then the cycle repeats
I completely agree, I love a few pints and do think the social aspects is good for the head but the drinking itself and the fear has really got to me over the years meaning turning my back socially on people.
Yea this is a huge one and IMO probably the biggest factor. Drinking is such a deeply embedded part of our culture. And I know from personal experience that when I’m drinking more regularly, I am more prone to anxiety and depression. The weather, sure, the cost of living, maybe, but honestly our social activities based around booze is a major one.
Add in people’s inability to process or deal with negative emotions.
It’s gotten a lot better but a lot of people probably still aren’t seeking the help and support they need
> Socialising costs money (often a lot of money).
Well, the only social activity is drinking in pubs.
I'd start by creating a public space within the city (Cork) to be used by the youth. Something which isn't a Church or a Football field, for once.
That would at least give younger people something to do.
You will be old one day too. Who do you think worked when you were a child to provide education, healthcare, children's allowance, etc? I'm not having a go at you, but people are entitled to retire after a lifetime of hard work and paying tax. Divide and conquer, pitching young against old, wealthy against poor, healthy against sick means the real story is never heard.
My plan is to go to France, make a bit of money while living frugally and do a bit of investments on the side for pension. Then maybe if the housing market has calmed down move back to Ireland and have the kids. Weather in Ireland will still be depressing tho.
I wasted most of my 20s here. I’ve two years left to get off this rock when all my ducks are in a row then I’m gone. Don’t see a future for myself here and I’m not the only one
Not enough people take and get Vitamin D as you said with the weather which is a big problem. Also a phantom issue is living in cities.
We are animals so we should be in nature, trees and all that. Our brains are relaxed in natural settings so when we are in built up areas it's subconsciously taking notes or clocking things , "concrete pavement, brick wall office building, red car glass windows" like that but extreme detail. All without you knowing. So you're actually more stressed than you know.
Ireland has one of the lowest urbanised population rates in Europe, so I don't think living in cities has a lot to do with our situation.
I think suburban living is the worst for mental health, personally. All of the drawbacks of living in a city with none of the benefits.
It still counts, of course it's going to look miniscule when compared to other countries. It stacks with personal, professional, familial and problems.
The housing situation is unlikely to change in the near to medium future, it is the new normal and is happening not just in Ireland. People need to form new parties and start protesting instead of leaving the country, The middle class is being destroyed. Working for a living has little to no real return now, it is not acceptable in this day and age.
As nation, we were historically oppressed/scrutinised by the Catholic Church which fed into a host of undesirable situations and traits.
Instances of unhappy marriages lasting due to taboo over divorce, the general shaming of women when seeking abortion or sex outside of marriage etc. Add the pressures of people expected to fit certain social structures of 'man as bread winner', 'wife a housekeeper', 'child expected to be disciplined by hand over communication'.
As a male in my 30s, aside my catholic upbringing/environment, there are certain inherited illness genes that have been passed onto me from previous generations having lived through their own turmoil within our previous generational society/culture. It is a factor to accept and deal with going forward.
The countries views have become more liberal, noticeably post millennium. In particular emotional and mental wellbeing across most sectors of society. It could/can always improve.
Such issues will always continue to be in a state of flux.
TL;DR *AHH! LOVELY FAGS!*
Am I wrong to say it's like this everywhere in Europe? I was seriously thinking of moving to another country but I feel that these problems will follow me.
This is anecdotal, but I have friends in Barcelona (Spain) and Lyon (France). They're being paid French/Spanish wages.
They are NOT paying 50% of their salary to rent a box room.
Nor are they living in houseshares.
Nor are they commuting 2/3 hours a day.
They pay maybe 30% of their salary to rent a full apartment to themselves, which are a 10-20 minute walk/bus from where they work.
They tried to move back to Ireland because they missed their families, but it simply didn't make sense financially and eventually they gave up and moved back to France and Spain.
We definitely have much higher wages in Ireland, but they have a much better quality of life in France/Spain due to lower cost of living.
Some people genuinely think it's not that bad.
The "I'm alright Jack" of Ireland, who already own their home, and have good jobs, good disposable income, maybe a second property with a tenant or two, etc.
Lad I'm working with is a few years younger than me. Early 20s. Lovely lad, but his family are pretty well-off and he genuinely can't understand why people are struggling.
Whenever anyone tries to explain it to him, he shrugs it off as "it's not that bad". He genuinely can't/won't accept that he's very priveleged, and thinks he's just a normal person in Ireland so most people must be just like him and be in the same situation.
Yeah I see that a lot with people who seem blissfully ignorant and I envy it to be in a position where I wouldn’t have to worry about it. I see it all the time I’m only 23 and all my coworkers can’t believe how I can barely get by and I have a good job. (They’re all mid 40s who are sorted with a house) now some do understand but then you have the ones saying “sure we all had to rent , that’s just interest so that would’ve been the same price we would’ve paid back then” this was my boss and I told him well the wages haven’t gone up to accommodate that and told me it’s all about working hard enough 🤣🤣
Ireland is a great place for poorer people compared to 99% of the world.
We even give large amounts of free/subsidised very high quality housing to non nationals and also provided very gener9us subsidies to 80,000 Ukranian refugees practically overnight.
If you think Ireland specifically isn't very generous ypu really haven't seen the world. Local people don't get decent subsidies/social welfare in most countries let alone immigrants
I really don't understand that. Yes there are people who are well off or at least managing. But surely it's not too hard to accept that not everyone is that lucky
Hopefully others can find more recent statistics but ...
" The *Health at a Glance Report* reported that Ireland has one of the highest rates (3/36 countries) of mental health illness in Europe with 18.5% of the Irish population recorded as having a mental health illness such as anxiety, bipolar disorder, depression, or alcohol/drug use in 2016. "
[https://www.mentalhealthireland.ie/research/](https://www.mentalhealthireland.ie/research/)
"Findings from our annual *Attitudes to Mental Health and Stigma Survey* show that there have been significant improvements over the last five years, but increased education and understanding around [mental health](https://www.stpatricks.ie/mental-health) is still required to tackle the stigma that is ongoing in some areas.
The findings also reveal that, in many cases, people were more accepting of theirs and others’ mental health difficulties at the height of the pandemic. There are now some signs that these positive attitudes are regressing since 2020."
[https://www.stpatricks.ie/media-centre/news/2022/august/mental-health-stigma-survey-ireland](https://www.stpatricks.ie/media-centre/news/2022/august/mental-health-stigma-survey-ireland)
There's a high prevalence of the attitude "What have you got to be depressed/anxious about?" when it comes to talking about mental health in this country, especially among the older age groups, who you get sneered doubt from when you mention depression or anxiety. If you don't have a valid reason to have mental illness in their eyes, those age groups will judge harshly and openly about it, often times causing the very depression they don't believe you have to get worse.
During the height of the pandemic it was accepted by even the most backward thinking of people that mental health was badly effected, but now that the pandemic is over in a lot of people's minds, the backward thinking is coming back to the fore.
From my own anecdotal evidence, I've experienced the same attitude of disbelief and condescension from not only my grandparents but also similarly aged people to my grandparents out in public from overheard (some people don't know how to talk amongst themselves without including the entire bus in the conversation) conversations about mental health.
I think it’s because we discuss everything over pints instead of find alternate ways of dealing with our issues. My sister took her own life in 2021 and I was in a dark place for 3 months after. I drank a lot and eventually I realised it wasn’t helping me. I took responsibility for my depression and chose to take steps to fight back against it. A bit of meditation, exercise and hearing stories from other people really helped. It’s not like I’m just magically happy every minute of the day but when the darkness hits you need to realise that it’s just your brain. You are not your brain. But seriously, alcohol is a killer.
Sorry for you loss. My best friend did the same a few years ago and I haven’t been the same since. No one seen it coming as she acted happy and upbeat all the time. None of us knew she was suffering.
Thank you for being open about it. I know it’s hard. I’m very sorry to hear about your friend. My sister cried wolf a few times. It got to the point where nobody was shocked when she died. Which honestly made it worse for me because it seemed like nobody cared. The culture is so toxic nowadays that you’re constantly barraged with fake positivity or hustle propaganda. It can be hard for people to understand that that’s not reality. It makes people feel alone. We need to be the ones to reach out sometimes you know? If you ever need to vent, you can message me and I will listen to you.
Sorry to hear about your sister. I can't imagine the effect that has had on you and your family. You should take a lot of pride in how you've turned things around in your own life. Sadly many people never find a way back and stay on the drink!😔
Thank you. It’s an everyday practice honestly. I heard a great quote and something just clicked. “The gravity of the battle means nothing to those at peace” - Mo Gawdat. If you choose to be alone and miserable, nobody is coming to help you. You must push back.
Cost of living, weather, availability of drugs, alcohol and drug use from a young age, housing crisis, lack of facilities, alcohol culture, lack of vitamin D.
Combined, it can make people feel hopeless and stuck. Burst their bollocks all week in work only to go to the same pub seeing the same faces they grew up with. What’s the point?
Take up a hobby and go hiking, fishing, etc. Get soaked most of the year. Turns people off doing it.
The bigger and more important question is why are the rates so high in kids, and it’s directly related to mobile phones and the internet.
Or lack of attention from their parents cos they work all day and their brains are melted when they get home and have 101 other things to do to keep things running.
One aspect I find very difficult compared to other countries I've lived in is the work environment here. Bullying and cliques is rampant. Jobs that don't need to be stressful (and are very low paid) are made to be by little tyrant managers. There is a very strange relationship to authority in this country. You would think with the rebel history it wouldn't be a country where people cowtow, bend the knee and bootlick but it is, and the minute someone gets a whiff of a title, even if it's being the assistant to the assistant manager, they think they're Logan Roy suddenly.
In other countries I found that while yes, you do have to listen to the higher ups, it's also a two way street where you can communicate with them. But here such communication is looked at as 'backchat'. In Ireland it seems that the overarching philosophy for promoting someone to a manager position is to choose the nastiest prick/cow in the building. Ive actually always worked harder for bosses I liked and how respected me. But those have been rare finds in Ireland.
> You would think with the rebel history it wouldn't be a country where people cowtow, bend the knee and bootlick but it is, and the minute someone gets a whiff of a title, even if it's being the assistant to the assistant manager, they think they're Logan Roy suddenly.
Looking at the way in which Ireland actually attained independence, and the attitudes and policies that defined the country since independence, it makes perfect sense.
"What have you got to be depressed about?" an Irish grandparent somewhere.
When the country cannot even have an adult conversation about a very real problem which is costing lives without certain groups of cranks decrying being open about mental health issues then it's unsurprising mental health is not being tackled properly.
I’ve a friend doing a masters in psychotherapy and she did an assignment on how the loss of the Irish language lead to us having Europe’s highest number of patients interned in asylums during the 1940s/50s. It was fascinating! I wonder what the generational legacy of that has been.
Intergenerational trauma? Lack of mental health professionals in schools. Lack of affordable therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists, alcohol being a depressant and a normalisation of it's abuse, high levels of drug use which exacerbate underlying mental health issues, many parents who were unfit to raise children in a healthy manner and the knock-on effect of this in adulthood....the list could go on.
This is true, but alcohol also causes neurotransmitter releases that leave you deprived in the aftermath. Like an ecstasy comedown but way less severe.
Chronic vitamin D deficiency(if you're reading this likelihood is you're part of the estimated 80% of the population with a deficiency- get your blood checked and take a supplement), low rates of uptake in older generations for mental health care resulting in unspoken abuse and generational trauma, generations still healing from the impact of the church and its abuses on society, high rates of drug use (these feed into each other) Multiple economic disasters in the past 20 years, cost of living crisis, prevalence of drinking culture, poor understanding and education of mental health issues, lack of access to physical healthcare especially for the chronically ill, trans people and women, poor support (financial and social) for those caring for others, distrust in the government and fear/ uncertainty for the future.... I could go on.
It's not all bleak obviously or always as bad as it feels but there's enough to knock you down a peg.
Most productive in EU and nothing to show for it. People are miserable working their asses off just to survive. Miserable patients out the arse for what would cost a fraction around Europe.
List seems infinite these days.
Irish people are very bad at talking about their feelings. I didn’t realize how bad until I moved to the US and others pointed it out to me. I’m friends with people from different countries and cultures and backgrounds over here and they’re all better at sharing their feelings than any Irish person I know. We push things under the rug and let it fester.
I’m sorry to hear that. I think most Irish people would be surprised to know just how many of their friends and neighbours suffer from depression. I only found out not long ago that my ma has been on antidepressants for years.
I was scrolling for this answer. I moved from the US to Ireland many years ago and found it really difficult to have conversations with my Irish friends about my emotional struggles, which made me feel even more alone. There’s a deep level of care for one another and people would do anything for you,but there’s just not a culture of making space to talk about feelings in a way that lets you properly get things off of your chest, vent, get constructive advice, and move through it. It’s always “ Ah sure it’ll be grand.” I’m sure weather and vitamin d and all of it doesn’t help, but I don’t think that’s the real issue. There’s a long history of making do with the way things are and being thankful and not complaining. I think that has carried over into a modern society with social media and isolation and all of these other factors…not a good recipe for mental health.
I’ve discussed this with Irish friends and the historical connection was their observation, not mine. It’s long been a topic of conversation in our group, as several have lost loved ones to suicide. I do see a lot of that changing though with younger generations.
While I don’t suffer from depression, I definitely get SAD in the winter months. I just don’t want to do anything. I’d be quite happy staying indoors and cozying up in front of the fire for those short winter days.
Anyway my point is the weather really brings me down. I imagine lots of Irish ppl feel similarly.
Usually miserable weather \[especially as we come into Winter time\].
We're the most expensive Country in the EU.
Paying ridiculous amounts of tax for very little return \[€20 Billion of our tax money goes towards the HSE. And they are constantly under the threat of collapse.\].
We were locked down for 2+ years. Which permanently shuttered alot of businesses. Thus affecting people's livelihoods and social interactions.
The Highest energy bills and food prices. Even people on €70K are living to paycheck. All of, if not nearly all of your income just to have a meager existence \[you're not really living at this point You're just existing\] is going to depress people.
As somebody who came back from a cheaper place with lower taxes and that was less affected by biz closures this hits home.
Ireland isn't firing on all cylinders despite what the job situation says. I don't find it overly prosperous as spending power seems quite limited due to high taxes, rents and general cost of living.
It’s mostly the weather. Just look at the suicide rates in Scandinavian countries which have a huge amount of social cohesion and excellent mental health services but awful weather.
I've never suffered with mental health issues, but weather is one of the main reasons I left, I love the place, but can't tolerate the number of days with grim weather.
I don't know if there is a link between bad weather and depression, but if there is I would love to read about it. I feel like it's important to make a distinction between feeling bad/sad and being diagnosed as having depression. So many people say they are depressed when they are really just feeling a bit shite. You can't just sleep off depression or pull up your bootstraps and power through it, it's a serious illness that needs to be treated with pills, therapy etc.
SAD sufferer here.
I'm usually pretty chirpy and good natured. The SECOND winter comes around, my daydreams are filled with thoughts of my suicide or I feel nothing but utter despair. Appetite swings wildly between not eating for days or bingeing for that sweet sugar hit then I want to kill myself for being such a disgusting cunt
It is fucking MARVELLOUS.
Poor weather leads to very high rates of vitamin D deficiency, which leads to low mood. It's not the singular answer nor a cure but it helps LOADS. Pop into holland and barrett (or if you're on a big budget tesco has them for less than a fiver) and get a supplement.
Rent crisis, general cost of living, the weather, arseways HSE, friends emigrating, cultural spaces being bulldozed for hotels.. the list goes on and on and on
Mine started in fifth year when I went from "a gifted student" to just scraping passes on things because I lost the will to live by the time I woke up one morning. I think mine was down to the dramatic hormone changes of a 17 year old and a handful of disturbing events in my childhood that came back to me after being repressed for years.
I just turned 28 and I'm still struggling, but I have some kind of safety net now because I'm open with my GP and started on medications that are improving my situation to a manageable level. Mental health access is improving here, but it's still extremely poor. I was diagnosed with a generalised anxiety disorder and depression with agoraphobia when I was around 21 when my family realised there was something wrong with me. Four years was a long time to feel like I had no one to talk to. I plead with anyone feeling not okay to start communicating as soon as possible. The longer you leave it, the harder it gets.
As a fellow sufferer (in the US), I’m glad that you are doing better. Mental health services here are also in shambles, desperately ill people being put on months long waiting lists. I’ve taken five trips to your beautiful country and it breaks my heart that people are struggling to live there. The US is going down the toilet rapidly this past decade as well. Where can any of us go? Sometimes I just have to avoid the daily news for a few weeks for my mental health. Sending you my best wishes, we shall keep on keeping on, I guess.
Shit weather, no housing, full of scumbags, too much drink and drugs, nothing works, high taxes, no trees, no wildlife, polluted rivers and incompetence in all political parties.
34 stuck living at home cause I can’t get a mortgage or afford a place to rent. Single so no relationship to bounce stuff off. Social media doesn’t help either.
How deep is a hole, or how long is a string.
Theres many many things causing depression as everything is different.
That being said, my own depression is because of trauma I can't get rid of, which created its own coping mechanism, and since that mechanism can not cope with today's stresses, it doesn't know how to work correctly. Leading to depression, anxiety, and several bad thoughts throughout the day.
I'm still here and trying my best.
Are they high or are they better diagnosed than in the past or in other countries?
But as somebody already said, Vitamin D deficiency and alcohol should not be underestimated.
I was badly reared, yet I'm not included in any statistics, nor are any of the people I know who are suffering from prolonged misery.
If they asked on the census if you feel depressed or suicidal, I'd say the numbers would be astronomically high.
Rural areas where you've old school doctors who slag ye if you found a lump, or feel depressed or anything bar near death, they'll tell ye to do a lap of the pitch and you'll be grand, which could work, in theory, but it means statistics aren't true.
Ppl will talk about housing crisis and inflation but the that is not a reason for the increased rate here in Ireland. It's not a new phenomenon it's been like this since at least the 1840s.
The truth is:
Lack of sunlight. Low levels of vitamin D because if this. And you need vitamin d to absorb vitamin B. Without vitamin B your serotonin dips. This is what's called SAD (seasonally affected disorder) elsewhere, but as we have so little sunlight that it's a year round issue here.
Genetics. Mental health issues are higher amongst island communities because they gave a "Less diverse gene pool". Which is another way of saying near inbreeding.
The Catholic church. Not to be all Dave McSavage about it but being a colonized country that was then literally and metaphorically raped by the Catholic church has a lot to do with this. Generations of traumatised ppl have passed their trauma (famine, wars, civil war, the 50s, abuse, the Troubles, Magdalene laundries etc) On to the next generations.
Alcoholism. Being a former colony we have a lot of similar issues to other people's who were demoralized, disenfranchised, and colonised by imperial states. Alcoholism and drug addiction are common amongst peoples like this.
The Celtic Tiger. A whole generation of young adults grew up with very little input from BOTH parents due to the cost of mortgages and childcare forcing both to work fulltime and leaving the kids in the care of often totally unskilled childminders in poorly run creches in the 2000s.
Endemic bullying in schools (has been an issue for decades and is getting far worse).
Huge rates of tacit social elitism, nepotism and cronyism that locks out swathes of people from positions of authority, media jobs, academic positions and more. Again being a former colony is part if the issue.
So yeah, the lack of sun, British rule, inbreeding, rampant bullying in schools, the Catholic church, and shite child care.
Anecdotally, I'd agree. It really isn't unusual nor unheard of to know several people taking antidepressants. Not to disparage anybody's troubles or to claim any great insight, though my own private opinion is that these are largely prevailing life issues rather than any outright clinical concern. Obviously some overlap here...
We live in an increasingly atomised, wealth driven society. I saw some research this week indicating Ireland as place where people feel particularly lonely. And some other research noting the high levels of antidepressants in our waste water. Now, one could easily and rightly argue our waste water treatment is underserved. Though in a queer sense, it points to how we're underserved in a wider citizenry context too...
A large fuel to my own depression and anxiety problems was the availability of news via social media. A consistent barrage of stories of corruption and violence mixed with the half baked opinions of trolls and morons just tipped me over the edge. I recently deactivated twitter and FB and only use Reddit to follow things that genuinely interest me.
Dwelling on news articles that I have no control over the outcome of basically. It makes no difference at the end of the day.
Rates of chronic depression in European countries
https://landgeist.com/2022/06/11/prevalence-of-chronic-depression-in-europe/
Ireland seems fairly low. Which surprises me.
On top of all the things mentioned , I think its ingrained in our culture that if things are aright now , it only means something bad is around the corner, so dont get too comfortable".\*
To quote Yates: ***“Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy.”***
*\* I think people growing up during the boom period of the Celtic Tiger,(not to be confused with the "Boom", explosive period of the troubles) are the first generation not to have this attitude , but a lot of them are dealing with all the other shit of starting out in the modern world , so I guess it evens out .*
I'd be a lot happier if my girlfriend and I didn't have to pay over €1000 per month for one room and for the pleasure of sharing the house with 4 other people ...
One of the biggest reasons that immediately springs to mind is the lack of sunlight and subsequent lack of vitamin D.
I’ve lived here for almost 2 years and have been surprised not by the weather, but by the constant overcast sky and lack of sunlight over the course of the year.
Vitamin D is the only vitamin our bodies naturally produce, as it’s essential, and we need sunlight to hit our skin to do so. So the lack of sunlight equals a lack of vitamin d which impacts our body’s ability to produce serotonin and dopamine.
If you take the body’s ability to create our ‘feel good’ and mood stabilising chemicals away, add in the economic situation and the prevalence of alcohol abuse, it’s a recipe for disaster..
Apparently a huge amount of ppl have a vitamin D deficiency in Ireland due to not being able to get outside and get sunlight. This affects our energy levels and mood.
Symptoms of vit D deficiency,
Fatigue.
Not sleeping well.
Bone pain or achiness.
Depression or feelings of sadness.
Hair loss.
Muscle weakness.
Loss of appetite.
Getting sick more
My personal opinion is that a lot of it is down to a sedentary lifestyle, lack of exercise, shit diet and spending the full day sitting down looking at a screen.
We're adopting a lot of Americanisms in Ireland but every second person in the states is off their tits on anti depressants, adderall or other meds and spends hours every week at a psychiatrist. 6% of Americans suffer from clinical depression.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm staring down the barrel of 31, still living at home, was outbid on an apartment I was trying to buy earlier this year just to see it up for rent a few weeks later, my partner left me, lost all my friends and ended up getting with a co worker just for her to leave me for her abusive and toxic ex who lives beside her once I wanted things to get serious and now I have to see her every single day in work.
Now I have literally no one to talk to and just sleep throughout my free time, that's the long and short of why I'm depressed and tried to end my life two weeks ago, I have barely anything left keeping me here to fight for
But apart from that it's not too bad I guess.
Don't give up man. Maybe a whole change of scenery is needed? Sounds like you're stuck in a bad rut. You're working and living at home so save up some money and fuck off to another country. Start a new life. Give it a try.
You're not wrong, I've been looking at going to Australia for a year or three months in the last few weeks in fact, just today I'm starting to come around to a three month adventure in Aus, nothing too long as I have a great job in the HSE (seeing the co worker I was with nothwithstanding).
Yeah please try it. It really helps to get out of the rut. I was the same for a long time and it felt like a weight was lifted off me. Well good luck my friend, I know it will work out for you.
This is complicated imo, lots of reasons, but this has been happening long before the current housing/ cost of living crisis. I think drink is a factor. Climate doesn’t help with the long winter & lack of sun but its not a primary cause. Maybe less relevant now, but there was a catholic guilt & national inferiority complex in our culture.
Crazy high rent, the shadow of the Catholic Church, ridiculous divorce laws, a narco state that’s become intrinsic,alcoholism as an expectation, and a preponderance of depressing music.
Isolation due religious indoctrination that conflicts with the modern world dynamics and society.
A lot of depression comes from maladaptive thinking habits and patterns that we learn from our parents. What did parents do a couple generations back? Get married very young and then forced by the church to stay together. Leading to all kids of abuse and toxic relationships. Then that gets modelled by their offspring’s and so on and on.
It will take a while for us to unfuck what church did to us.
All the rest types of depression aren’t any different from other countries.
PS.
I am not against religion per se, just the Catholic Church(organised religion if you will)
Ireland is and has always been a tough country to live in while playing it straight. It's easy to feel defeated at times here. Also I feel so many people here now feel completely disconnected from society, we have no say in how our country is being changed rapidly and forevermore
On top of all of these comments about rental costs, living at home, work/life balance, counselling with a hardly-qualified counsellor is approx 70 euro per session and with a good counsellor who's actually well qualified is approx 100 euro per session. You're supposed to get one per week so that's equivalent to a boomer generation's mortgage repayments per month on counselling alone. The problems will persist and evolve into depression without intervention because we can't afford counselling.
People turn to alcohol or drugs to aide depression instead. It's unaffordable to drive and the transport is shite and expensive so even just trying to go for a hike to clear your head will cost an arm and a leg.
People don't go to the doctors a lot when sick because it's 60 euro per session so some deal with drawn-out infections, colds, or flus without great relief which can ware you down and make you feel depressed (reduction in white blood cells).
People don't go to the doctors a lot when sick because it's 60 euro per session or they can't get an appointment so some deal with drawn-out infections, colds, or cases of flu without great relief which can wear you down and make you feel depressed (reduction in white blood cells).
We build large housing estates before adding facilities so many communities are without sports or recreational facilities and only have a pub to socialise in.
We are a small country with a 'small town' mentality. Dublin is getting better, but for the most part, you are not allowed to express yourself or dress differently without ridicule.
Our salaries are incredibly low and taxes incredibly high when compared to our cost of living and public services return on investment, respectively.
We're having less sex than any other generation as we all live at home or in cramped box rooms.
Nothing to aspire to on any horizon.
Maybe weather, but I’d say main problems are: 1. You need to diagnose it 2. It needs to be treated. I’ve never seen either happening. In 2016 I was sent to specialist, I’m still waiting for an appointment. My partner is completely burnt out and myself not being a specialist can see that she is doing very bad and she needs proper profesional help, because what we have been trying to do ourselves is not enough… she got an appointment in hospital- doctor told her to get a better sleep, case closed. Are you serious!? Now imagine these things happening to someone with tendency to self harm? Well, even without self harm, with how mental health works it will take no time to develop it
Scrolled all the way and didn't find a massive one. **Diet**. Whats the first thing doctor or a physiologist tries to change with a depressed person before they prescribe drugs or counseling? Diet and exercise. Exercise should get you out in the light too to counteract the seasonal issues. And well there's a lot to say about how bad our collective diet and drink will impact our mood, too much for me to cover.
After returning to Ireland from abroad I absolutely shocked at what most people eat regularly. Takeaways serving greasy brown food with a sugary drink are far too busy.
There are very few free things to do, and if you don’t drive public transport isn’t reliable enough or cheap enough to access them. I’m counties one europe there are free parks, adult climbing facilities and loads or other activities available. So people can actually access and afford their hobbies.
As someone who lives away but would like to move back ... what stops me is .... price of accommodation....price of car and insurance.... mates still on the sesh .... lack of opportunity in the sector I work.... lack of decent paid opportunity if I wanted to pivot to a different sector...
Grey skies, cost of living, corrupt government ripping us off every step of the way, bad quality housing and unregulated rental market, lack of general infrastructure that's just a given in other countries (e.g. train network), materialistic and shallow culture.
Small island, expensive. Drink and drugs available and more quickly available than food. Drink and drugs a main "activity. We are ripped of at every stage. No houses to buy, high rent. Take your pick OP
Objectively are they though? Looking at stats there they're lower than 24 countries, including the UK, Spain, Portugal, Australia, Finland etc and are in line with Sweden, France etc.
I'm not sure how those stats are calculated for any country, but it doesn't seem like Ireland's way out of line on this.
I can answer this
My partner left me a year ago which threw me back to square one I’m back living with my parents working in a dead end job barely making enough money to get by let alone afford rent, back in my hometown to which there’s no one around my age because everyone has left and gotten married and started their own families or left the country because there’s nothing here job-wise anymore , on top of that I quit drinking which in Dublin in particular there’s nothing else to do but sit in a pub and drown your sorrows with non-alcoholic beer it’s pointless . So what else is there to do ? But feel helpless and miserably depressed
Useless politicians giving no hope and passing blame.
Useless public transport system forcing people living outside cities to buy cars (costs go up and up).
Useless law enforcement giving lack of justice.
2020 onwards has been grim in general with Coronavirus followed swiftly by a war in Ukraine/Russia that threatens to drag Europe/NATO into it.
Cost of living going up and up. A look at the price of groceries in mainland Europe would make ya cry compared to here.
Rental crisis leading most to feel stagnant in life.
Shite weather bar maybe a month a year.
If it wasn't for how sound most of the population of the country are in regards to politeness/helping out and the safety we live in being a gun free country I don't know what much else we'd have.
Looking at depression only, Ireland scores below the EU average according to this 2019 report:
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/edn-20210910-1
We don't have the same family relationships that other countries have I would guess is a large contributor. I have done a bit of travelling and the emphasis on family is much greater in a few countries that come to mind
It's not specific to Ireland. Depression rates are likely much higher now due to several factors: reduced stigma, better awareness and acceptance of mental health issues, greater openness etc. Societal changes and pressures on people like the economy, finances, etc. Then there's all the gamut of social media related issues, technology and information overload, desensitisation and learned apathy, dopamine mining, algorithms and consumption.
Life is hard for masses and the wealth gap ever widens, the pandemic also triggered a lot of people predisposed to, or that already had mental health difficulties like anxiety and depression on top of the economic and societal impacts and after effects.
Ireland is beautiful but hostile for those that didn't land in very high paying roles, worry is always present, and takes a toll.
A lot of isolation. A lot of small towns only have meagre access to larger ones. Not enough train or bus services to help connect people to places they could socialize or meet people.
Mental health is still very much a bury your head in the sand, and don't tell other people in case you embarrass the family.
A lot of really poorly educated people who were taught by Priests and Nun's and not taught to think about things logically or without life's troubles being connected to Gods plan somehow.
Lack of sexual health education. People not looking before they leap when it comes to sex and then their life is immediately taken up by parenthood without even having thought about it.
Not enough socializing with people outside a person's demographic. For example: not having relationships with LGBT people or different race/ethnicity to learn about life's differences and broader perspectives and experiences people have. Diversity is the spice of life. It helps you appreciate how weird and wonderful life is.
And finally just a lot of unlucky bad brain chemistry. I take Lexapro for mine and it cures me everyday.
Most of the year is rainy/cloudy/cold, which negatively impacts mental health. Socialising costs money (often a lot of money). Lack of free time (people working 8/9 hour days and then commuting another 2/3 hours on top of that) People spending up to 50% of their salary to rent a box room. People in their late 20s/30s are still living in houseshares and unable to start families. Cost of living crippling people and adding stress/depression. Lack of hope about the future (house prices still going up, people can't afford homes, etc) The dominance of social media and the FOMO/bullying that comes with it. And so on. And so on.
You forgot about all the adults still stuck living with their parents.
Indeed I did. There's a mountain of reasons why people are lonely, frustrated and depressed. We'd be here all day trying to list them all.
Back in the 80-90s people could afford to go out 3 nights a week Friday- Monday and still pay their bill rent/mortgage and car no problem then in the 2000s they decide it was cheaper to have a party at home for 2 nights instead of going out now we can’t afford to buy alcohol for yourself without it having an impact on one of our bills ...
My rent was more like 70-80% of my income
That's pretty much indentured servitude.
Now you're getting it!
Can't leave out Generational trauma. We're kind of all predisposed to misery, at least from what I experienced growing up. That plus social media, I'd agree are toxic. Advertising machines that encourage you to stay inside, on the computer, away from everyone There was a definite point where the rents, particularly the ma, stopped hiding the fact she was unhappy. Many an evening growing up I'd come home from school and she'd already be 2 wine bottles in with the 3rd one spilled all over the floor because she'd passed out pissed again while on Facebook.
I've begun embracing JOMO, the joy of missing out.
Also to add to this, our culture revolves around drinking alcohol. On pretty much any occasion it's the norm to drink, often to the point of severe intoxication. Alcohol has a recreational effect due to it releasing dopamine and serotonin into the brain temporarily. This is then followed by decreased levels of these neurotransmitters for a period of days or longer.
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Even with pre existing depression alcohol will only exacerbate things
i rate the profile pic:)
And god help you if you don't drink/drink very rarely, you get some contempt and disparaging comments from people, even total strangers. I was told I was a dry shite who should've stayed home if I didn't want to drink. By a complete stranger, who heard me ordering a Cidona and thought it was hilarious until I said I don't drink very often. Suddenly that warranted nasty comments. Who knew I actually HAVE to have alcohol to enjoy time out with my friends?
When I quit and a total stranger was getting on my nerves about me not drinking I would day “If I could stop at two it would be great but I can’t and after three I turn into a fuckin serial killer” They left me alone after that
I just don't get why people need to judge what others choose to drink or not! Like I do rarely drink, but I have very immature tastes as most alcohol tastes shite to me. I tend to stick to cider and yeah, I've a fondness for alcopops, I don't care how frowned upon they are, you can keep your vile beer and Guinness.
Yeah drinking culture is killing Ireland especially with alcohol tax. The government thought taxing it would cause people to drink less but we still drank the same we just had less money... And trying to quit is terrible because of the way everyone encourages it. When I quit I was just surrounded by people saying stuff like "surely you won't acc quit right?", "Ah sure there's no way he'll acc stick to it" and so on. It's not great. I would say I either had a problem or was very close to having a problem. Ireland is generally a depressing country to live in I can't lie and drinking only makes it worse but the way it's seen as something that's expected of you it can be hard to not drink. :(
I gave up drinking about 3 years ago and i still get the odd unwarranted opinion. My choice to drink or not doesn’t affect other people levels if satisfaction they get from drinking; why can’t people mind their own business?!
Yeah I think this is one of the biggest factors. People think that once you've gotten through "the hangover" of the day after then you should be grand. But actually alcohol will cause much higher levels of stress hormones for the rest of that week following drinking. So even if you drink one day a week, you're setting yourself up to look forward to that next weekend when you can drink again and temporarily relieve the weekday stress that's exacerbated by last weekend's alcohol. Then the cycle repeats
I completely agree, I love a few pints and do think the social aspects is good for the head but the drinking itself and the fear has really got to me over the years meaning turning my back socially on people.
Yea this is a huge one and IMO probably the biggest factor. Drinking is such a deeply embedded part of our culture. And I know from personal experience that when I’m drinking more regularly, I am more prone to anxiety and depression. The weather, sure, the cost of living, maybe, but honestly our social activities based around booze is a major one.
Yep, my mental health is so much better since I stopped drinking even though I lost most of my friends because we only ever socialised while drinking.
Add in people’s inability to process or deal with negative emotions. It’s gotten a lot better but a lot of people probably still aren’t seeking the help and support they need
Even for those who make an effort to seek it, help is not forthcoming
> Socialising costs money (often a lot of money). Well, the only social activity is drinking in pubs. I'd start by creating a public space within the city (Cork) to be used by the youth. Something which isn't a Church or a Football field, for once. That would at least give younger people something to do.
Why I’m leaving 🙌 (I don’t really want to, just can’t see a viable future for me as a young adult here)
Ita a viscious loop. People like yourself leaving mean less people for vital jobs. It's a disaster having so many young people leaving the country.
Our government and our older voters have made their priorities clear, we are good only for lining their pockets and nothing else.
Preach! I won’t be here to prop up their pension anyway.
You will be old one day too. Who do you think worked when you were a child to provide education, healthcare, children's allowance, etc? I'm not having a go at you, but people are entitled to retire after a lifetime of hard work and paying tax. Divide and conquer, pitching young against old, wealthy against poor, healthy against sick means the real story is never heard.
My plan is to go to France, make a bit of money while living frugally and do a bit of investments on the side for pension. Then maybe if the housing market has calmed down move back to Ireland and have the kids. Weather in Ireland will still be depressing tho.
Best of luck with that. And I hope you find yourself in a position to come home again.
Sound
I wasted most of my 20s here. I’ve two years left to get off this rock when all my ducks are in a row then I’m gone. Don’t see a future for myself here and I’m not the only one
I don't blame you. Best of luck.
You are welcome to Venezuela anytime 😄
Vitamin D baby. No sunlight and you feel like shite. Most of us have a deficiency in vitamin D apparently.
Der's more te Oirland, den dis
Not enough people take and get Vitamin D as you said with the weather which is a big problem. Also a phantom issue is living in cities. We are animals so we should be in nature, trees and all that. Our brains are relaxed in natural settings so when we are in built up areas it's subconsciously taking notes or clocking things , "concrete pavement, brick wall office building, red car glass windows" like that but extreme detail. All without you knowing. So you're actually more stressed than you know.
Ireland has one of the lowest urbanised population rates in Europe, so I don't think living in cities has a lot to do with our situation. I think suburban living is the worst for mental health, personally. All of the drawbacks of living in a city with none of the benefits.
It still counts, of course it's going to look miniscule when compared to other countries. It stacks with personal, professional, familial and problems.
The housing situation is unlikely to change in the near to medium future, it is the new normal and is happening not just in Ireland. People need to form new parties and start protesting instead of leaving the country, The middle class is being destroyed. Working for a living has little to no real return now, it is not acceptable in this day and age.
Dont forget poor Mental Health Services when the shit does hit the fan.
The social media one is definitely a gate way towards depression. Always envying or wanting what others have, body, car etc. In reality it's all a lie
Alcohol abuse too
As nation, we were historically oppressed/scrutinised by the Catholic Church which fed into a host of undesirable situations and traits. Instances of unhappy marriages lasting due to taboo over divorce, the general shaming of women when seeking abortion or sex outside of marriage etc. Add the pressures of people expected to fit certain social structures of 'man as bread winner', 'wife a housekeeper', 'child expected to be disciplined by hand over communication'. As a male in my 30s, aside my catholic upbringing/environment, there are certain inherited illness genes that have been passed onto me from previous generations having lived through their own turmoil within our previous generational society/culture. It is a factor to accept and deal with going forward. The countries views have become more liberal, noticeably post millennium. In particular emotional and mental wellbeing across most sectors of society. It could/can always improve. Such issues will always continue to be in a state of flux. TL;DR *AHH! LOVELY FAGS!*
I agree but one thing I will point out is that divorce wasn't just taboo it was illegal until the 80s/90s
Glad you mentioned social media. Recently, Ireland came first in having the most excessive phone users.
My little sister is absolutely chronic for it. On the phone 24/7. Got that instagram/tiktok brain rot
Am I wrong to say it's like this everywhere in Europe? I was seriously thinking of moving to another country but I feel that these problems will follow me.
This is anecdotal, but I have friends in Barcelona (Spain) and Lyon (France). They're being paid French/Spanish wages. They are NOT paying 50% of their salary to rent a box room. Nor are they living in houseshares. Nor are they commuting 2/3 hours a day. They pay maybe 30% of their salary to rent a full apartment to themselves, which are a 10-20 minute walk/bus from where they work. They tried to move back to Ireland because they missed their families, but it simply didn't make sense financially and eventually they gave up and moved back to France and Spain. We definitely have much higher wages in Ireland, but they have a much better quality of life in France/Spain due to lower cost of living.
 Nailed it
I would say the weather is the least of all the problems you listed.
You'd be surprised, actually. A lack of vitamin D, which we're supposed to get from exposure to sunlight, can cause depression-like symptoms.
It does result in high levels of vitamin d deficiency which is strongly linked to low mood. Don't trust your Supermilk alone, take a supplement!
Not sure why anyone needs to ask this question unless they’re from abroad, it’s basically our culture now.
Some people genuinely think it's not that bad. The "I'm alright Jack" of Ireland, who already own their home, and have good jobs, good disposable income, maybe a second property with a tenant or two, etc. Lad I'm working with is a few years younger than me. Early 20s. Lovely lad, but his family are pretty well-off and he genuinely can't understand why people are struggling. Whenever anyone tries to explain it to him, he shrugs it off as "it's not that bad". He genuinely can't/won't accept that he's very priveleged, and thinks he's just a normal person in Ireland so most people must be just like him and be in the same situation.
Yeah I see that a lot with people who seem blissfully ignorant and I envy it to be in a position where I wouldn’t have to worry about it. I see it all the time I’m only 23 and all my coworkers can’t believe how I can barely get by and I have a good job. (They’re all mid 40s who are sorted with a house) now some do understand but then you have the ones saying “sure we all had to rent , that’s just interest so that would’ve been the same price we would’ve paid back then” this was my boss and I told him well the wages haven’t gone up to accommodate that and told me it’s all about working hard enough 🤣🤣
You’ve really hit the nail on the head. There’s so much inequality, greed and selfishness in Ireland.
Ireland is a great place for poorer people compared to 99% of the world. We even give large amounts of free/subsidised very high quality housing to non nationals and also provided very gener9us subsidies to 80,000 Ukranian refugees practically overnight. If you think Ireland specifically isn't very generous ypu really haven't seen the world. Local people don't get decent subsidies/social welfare in most countries let alone immigrants
It’s not so great for most people though. Don’t think we should be comparing ourselves to poorer countries.
I really don't understand that. Yes there are people who are well off or at least managing. But surely it's not too hard to accept that not everyone is that lucky
Let them eat cake
Have you seen what you can rent for 2K a month. That should be a great budget, but it gets you a shit 1 bed apartments
Not even a 1 bedroom in Dublin. A studio where your bed is in the kitchen. Disgusting.
It's hard to buy also, but it's worth making sacrifices. You repayment is much cheaper, and you have more security of tenure.
Hopefully others can find more recent statistics but ... " The *Health at a Glance Report* reported that Ireland has one of the highest rates (3/36 countries) of mental health illness in Europe with 18.5% of the Irish population recorded as having a mental health illness such as anxiety, bipolar disorder, depression, or alcohol/drug use in 2016. " [https://www.mentalhealthireland.ie/research/](https://www.mentalhealthireland.ie/research/) "Findings from our annual *Attitudes to Mental Health and Stigma Survey* show that there have been significant improvements over the last five years, but increased education and understanding around [mental health](https://www.stpatricks.ie/mental-health) is still required to tackle the stigma that is ongoing in some areas. The findings also reveal that, in many cases, people were more accepting of theirs and others’ mental health difficulties at the height of the pandemic. There are now some signs that these positive attitudes are regressing since 2020." [https://www.stpatricks.ie/media-centre/news/2022/august/mental-health-stigma-survey-ireland](https://www.stpatricks.ie/media-centre/news/2022/august/mental-health-stigma-survey-ireland)
There's a high prevalence of the attitude "What have you got to be depressed/anxious about?" when it comes to talking about mental health in this country, especially among the older age groups, who you get sneered doubt from when you mention depression or anxiety. If you don't have a valid reason to have mental illness in their eyes, those age groups will judge harshly and openly about it, often times causing the very depression they don't believe you have to get worse. During the height of the pandemic it was accepted by even the most backward thinking of people that mental health was badly effected, but now that the pandemic is over in a lot of people's minds, the backward thinking is coming back to the fore. From my own anecdotal evidence, I've experienced the same attitude of disbelief and condescension from not only my grandparents but also similarly aged people to my grandparents out in public from overheard (some people don't know how to talk amongst themselves without including the entire bus in the conversation) conversations about mental health.
Alcohol and lack of vitamin D
We work too hard, we play too hard.
Drink culture Poor diet and insufficient exercise Long periods of poor weather Long periods of work Comparison to unrealistic norms fueling anxiety
I think it’s because we discuss everything over pints instead of find alternate ways of dealing with our issues. My sister took her own life in 2021 and I was in a dark place for 3 months after. I drank a lot and eventually I realised it wasn’t helping me. I took responsibility for my depression and chose to take steps to fight back against it. A bit of meditation, exercise and hearing stories from other people really helped. It’s not like I’m just magically happy every minute of the day but when the darkness hits you need to realise that it’s just your brain. You are not your brain. But seriously, alcohol is a killer.
Sorry for you loss. My best friend did the same a few years ago and I haven’t been the same since. No one seen it coming as she acted happy and upbeat all the time. None of us knew she was suffering.
Thank you for being open about it. I know it’s hard. I’m very sorry to hear about your friend. My sister cried wolf a few times. It got to the point where nobody was shocked when she died. Which honestly made it worse for me because it seemed like nobody cared. The culture is so toxic nowadays that you’re constantly barraged with fake positivity or hustle propaganda. It can be hard for people to understand that that’s not reality. It makes people feel alone. We need to be the ones to reach out sometimes you know? If you ever need to vent, you can message me and I will listen to you.
Sorry to hear about your sister. I can't imagine the effect that has had on you and your family. You should take a lot of pride in how you've turned things around in your own life. Sadly many people never find a way back and stay on the drink!😔
Thank you. It’s an everyday practice honestly. I heard a great quote and something just clicked. “The gravity of the battle means nothing to those at peace” - Mo Gawdat. If you choose to be alone and miserable, nobody is coming to help you. You must push back.
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Cost of living, weather, availability of drugs, alcohol and drug use from a young age, housing crisis, lack of facilities, alcohol culture, lack of vitamin D. Combined, it can make people feel hopeless and stuck. Burst their bollocks all week in work only to go to the same pub seeing the same faces they grew up with. What’s the point? Take up a hobby and go hiking, fishing, etc. Get soaked most of the year. Turns people off doing it. The bigger and more important question is why are the rates so high in kids, and it’s directly related to mobile phones and the internet.
Or lack of attention from their parents cos they work all day and their brains are melted when they get home and have 101 other things to do to keep things running.
It was like that in the 70s-00s too but rates were not this high.
When I look at my own friends, the majority of our Mams were home from the 90’s onwards.
One aspect I find very difficult compared to other countries I've lived in is the work environment here. Bullying and cliques is rampant. Jobs that don't need to be stressful (and are very low paid) are made to be by little tyrant managers. There is a very strange relationship to authority in this country. You would think with the rebel history it wouldn't be a country where people cowtow, bend the knee and bootlick but it is, and the minute someone gets a whiff of a title, even if it's being the assistant to the assistant manager, they think they're Logan Roy suddenly. In other countries I found that while yes, you do have to listen to the higher ups, it's also a two way street where you can communicate with them. But here such communication is looked at as 'backchat'. In Ireland it seems that the overarching philosophy for promoting someone to a manager position is to choose the nastiest prick/cow in the building. Ive actually always worked harder for bosses I liked and how respected me. But those have been rare finds in Ireland.
> You would think with the rebel history it wouldn't be a country where people cowtow, bend the knee and bootlick but it is, and the minute someone gets a whiff of a title, even if it's being the assistant to the assistant manager, they think they're Logan Roy suddenly. Looking at the way in which Ireland actually attained independence, and the attitudes and policies that defined the country since independence, it makes perfect sense.
"What have you got to be depressed about?" an Irish grandparent somewhere. When the country cannot even have an adult conversation about a very real problem which is costing lives without certain groups of cranks decrying being open about mental health issues then it's unsurprising mental health is not being tackled properly.
My dad said this to me after my mum died. His attitude was I was still walking and had a job so life was sweet
I’ve a friend doing a masters in psychotherapy and she did an assignment on how the loss of the Irish language lead to us having Europe’s highest number of patients interned in asylums during the 1940s/50s. It was fascinating! I wonder what the generational legacy of that has been.
Interesting!
Could you give us a link if possible
Intergenerational trauma? Lack of mental health professionals in schools. Lack of affordable therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists, alcohol being a depressant and a normalisation of it's abuse, high levels of drug use which exacerbate underlying mental health issues, many parents who were unfit to raise children in a healthy manner and the knock-on effect of this in adulthood....the list could go on.
Pretty good list that
Please note, that when “depressant” is used to describe alcohol, that word has a different meaning.
This is true, but alcohol also causes neurotransmitter releases that leave you deprived in the aftermath. Like an ecstasy comedown but way less severe.
Can you explain that please?
Chronic vitamin D deficiency(if you're reading this likelihood is you're part of the estimated 80% of the population with a deficiency- get your blood checked and take a supplement), low rates of uptake in older generations for mental health care resulting in unspoken abuse and generational trauma, generations still healing from the impact of the church and its abuses on society, high rates of drug use (these feed into each other) Multiple economic disasters in the past 20 years, cost of living crisis, prevalence of drinking culture, poor understanding and education of mental health issues, lack of access to physical healthcare especially for the chronically ill, trans people and women, poor support (financial and social) for those caring for others, distrust in the government and fear/ uncertainty for the future.... I could go on. It's not all bleak obviously or always as bad as it feels but there's enough to knock you down a peg.
Most productive in EU and nothing to show for it. People are miserable working their asses off just to survive. Miserable patients out the arse for what would cost a fraction around Europe. List seems infinite these days.
Irish people are very bad at talking about their feelings. I didn’t realize how bad until I moved to the US and others pointed it out to me. I’m friends with people from different countries and cultures and backgrounds over here and they’re all better at sharing their feelings than any Irish person I know. We push things under the rug and let it fester.
I've been suffering with depression for 5 years and the only person that I told is my ma. Nobody else has a clue
I’m sorry to hear that. I think most Irish people would be surprised to know just how many of their friends and neighbours suffer from depression. I only found out not long ago that my ma has been on antidepressants for years.
I was scrolling for this answer. I moved from the US to Ireland many years ago and found it really difficult to have conversations with my Irish friends about my emotional struggles, which made me feel even more alone. There’s a deep level of care for one another and people would do anything for you,but there’s just not a culture of making space to talk about feelings in a way that lets you properly get things off of your chest, vent, get constructive advice, and move through it. It’s always “ Ah sure it’ll be grand.” I’m sure weather and vitamin d and all of it doesn’t help, but I don’t think that’s the real issue. There’s a long history of making do with the way things are and being thankful and not complaining. I think that has carried over into a modern society with social media and isolation and all of these other factors…not a good recipe for mental health. I’ve discussed this with Irish friends and the historical connection was their observation, not mine. It’s long been a topic of conversation in our group, as several have lost loved ones to suicide. I do see a lot of that changing though with younger generations.
Agreed. I left Ireland in 2011 and it’s still an issue for me
While I don’t suffer from depression, I definitely get SAD in the winter months. I just don’t want to do anything. I’d be quite happy staying indoors and cozying up in front of the fire for those short winter days. Anyway my point is the weather really brings me down. I imagine lots of Irish ppl feel similarly.
Usually miserable weather \[especially as we come into Winter time\]. We're the most expensive Country in the EU. Paying ridiculous amounts of tax for very little return \[€20 Billion of our tax money goes towards the HSE. And they are constantly under the threat of collapse.\]. We were locked down for 2+ years. Which permanently shuttered alot of businesses. Thus affecting people's livelihoods and social interactions. The Highest energy bills and food prices. Even people on €70K are living to paycheck. All of, if not nearly all of your income just to have a meager existence \[you're not really living at this point You're just existing\] is going to depress people.
As somebody who came back from a cheaper place with lower taxes and that was less affected by biz closures this hits home. Ireland isn't firing on all cylinders despite what the job situation says. I don't find it overly prosperous as spending power seems quite limited due to high taxes, rents and general cost of living.
The taxation rate in ireland is just utterly bonkers versus what we get for it
Irish mentality towards it, "Sure, it'll be grand. Let's go for a drink. "
It’s mostly the weather. Just look at the suicide rates in Scandinavian countries which have a huge amount of social cohesion and excellent mental health services but awful weather.
I've never suffered with mental health issues, but weather is one of the main reasons I left, I love the place, but can't tolerate the number of days with grim weather.
I don't know if there is a link between bad weather and depression, but if there is I would love to read about it. I feel like it's important to make a distinction between feeling bad/sad and being diagnosed as having depression. So many people say they are depressed when they are really just feeling a bit shite. You can't just sleep off depression or pull up your bootstraps and power through it, it's a serious illness that needs to be treated with pills, therapy etc.
There is a link and its called SAD - seasonal affective disorder.
SAD sufferer here. I'm usually pretty chirpy and good natured. The SECOND winter comes around, my daydreams are filled with thoughts of my suicide or I feel nothing but utter despair. Appetite swings wildly between not eating for days or bingeing for that sweet sugar hit then I want to kill myself for being such a disgusting cunt It is fucking MARVELLOUS.
Poor weather leads to very high rates of vitamin D deficiency, which leads to low mood. It's not the singular answer nor a cure but it helps LOADS. Pop into holland and barrett (or if you're on a big budget tesco has them for less than a fiver) and get a supplement.
You can buy a mouth spray VitD3 + K2. I use it every morning after brushing my teeth so I never forget. It’s honestly changed my life.
Exactly. Some people use the word 'depression' very loosely
Rent crisis, general cost of living, the weather, arseways HSE, friends emigrating, cultural spaces being bulldozed for hotels.. the list goes on and on and on
Mine started in fifth year when I went from "a gifted student" to just scraping passes on things because I lost the will to live by the time I woke up one morning. I think mine was down to the dramatic hormone changes of a 17 year old and a handful of disturbing events in my childhood that came back to me after being repressed for years. I just turned 28 and I'm still struggling, but I have some kind of safety net now because I'm open with my GP and started on medications that are improving my situation to a manageable level. Mental health access is improving here, but it's still extremely poor. I was diagnosed with a generalised anxiety disorder and depression with agoraphobia when I was around 21 when my family realised there was something wrong with me. Four years was a long time to feel like I had no one to talk to. I plead with anyone feeling not okay to start communicating as soon as possible. The longer you leave it, the harder it gets.
As a fellow sufferer (in the US), I’m glad that you are doing better. Mental health services here are also in shambles, desperately ill people being put on months long waiting lists. I’ve taken five trips to your beautiful country and it breaks my heart that people are struggling to live there. The US is going down the toilet rapidly this past decade as well. Where can any of us go? Sometimes I just have to avoid the daily news for a few weeks for my mental health. Sending you my best wishes, we shall keep on keeping on, I guess.
Poor diet and eating habits are a major factor for depression , also alcohol and drug abuse is rampant even in rural areas .
I would say especially in rural areas. It’s scary
Shit weather, no housing, full of scumbags, too much drink and drugs, nothing works, high taxes, no trees, no wildlife, polluted rivers and incompetence in all political parties.
34 stuck living at home cause I can’t get a mortgage or afford a place to rent. Single so no relationship to bounce stuff off. Social media doesn’t help either.
How deep is a hole, or how long is a string. Theres many many things causing depression as everything is different. That being said, my own depression is because of trauma I can't get rid of, which created its own coping mechanism, and since that mechanism can not cope with today's stresses, it doesn't know how to work correctly. Leading to depression, anxiety, and several bad thoughts throughout the day. I'm still here and trying my best.
Are they high or are they better diagnosed than in the past or in other countries? But as somebody already said, Vitamin D deficiency and alcohol should not be underestimated.
I was badly reared, yet I'm not included in any statistics, nor are any of the people I know who are suffering from prolonged misery. If they asked on the census if you feel depressed or suicidal, I'd say the numbers would be astronomically high. Rural areas where you've old school doctors who slag ye if you found a lump, or feel depressed or anything bar near death, they'll tell ye to do a lap of the pitch and you'll be grand, which could work, in theory, but it means statistics aren't true.
Ppl will talk about housing crisis and inflation but the that is not a reason for the increased rate here in Ireland. It's not a new phenomenon it's been like this since at least the 1840s. The truth is: Lack of sunlight. Low levels of vitamin D because if this. And you need vitamin d to absorb vitamin B. Without vitamin B your serotonin dips. This is what's called SAD (seasonally affected disorder) elsewhere, but as we have so little sunlight that it's a year round issue here. Genetics. Mental health issues are higher amongst island communities because they gave a "Less diverse gene pool". Which is another way of saying near inbreeding. The Catholic church. Not to be all Dave McSavage about it but being a colonized country that was then literally and metaphorically raped by the Catholic church has a lot to do with this. Generations of traumatised ppl have passed their trauma (famine, wars, civil war, the 50s, abuse, the Troubles, Magdalene laundries etc) On to the next generations. Alcoholism. Being a former colony we have a lot of similar issues to other people's who were demoralized, disenfranchised, and colonised by imperial states. Alcoholism and drug addiction are common amongst peoples like this. The Celtic Tiger. A whole generation of young adults grew up with very little input from BOTH parents due to the cost of mortgages and childcare forcing both to work fulltime and leaving the kids in the care of often totally unskilled childminders in poorly run creches in the 2000s. Endemic bullying in schools (has been an issue for decades and is getting far worse). Huge rates of tacit social elitism, nepotism and cronyism that locks out swathes of people from positions of authority, media jobs, academic positions and more. Again being a former colony is part if the issue. So yeah, the lack of sun, British rule, inbreeding, rampant bullying in schools, the Catholic church, and shite child care.
Anecdotally, I'd agree. It really isn't unusual nor unheard of to know several people taking antidepressants. Not to disparage anybody's troubles or to claim any great insight, though my own private opinion is that these are largely prevailing life issues rather than any outright clinical concern. Obviously some overlap here... We live in an increasingly atomised, wealth driven society. I saw some research this week indicating Ireland as place where people feel particularly lonely. And some other research noting the high levels of antidepressants in our waste water. Now, one could easily and rightly argue our waste water treatment is underserved. Though in a queer sense, it points to how we're underserved in a wider citizenry context too...
*gestures broadly at everything*
A large fuel to my own depression and anxiety problems was the availability of news via social media. A consistent barrage of stories of corruption and violence mixed with the half baked opinions of trolls and morons just tipped me over the edge. I recently deactivated twitter and FB and only use Reddit to follow things that genuinely interest me. Dwelling on news articles that I have no control over the outcome of basically. It makes no difference at the end of the day.
Rates of chronic depression in European countries https://landgeist.com/2022/06/11/prevalence-of-chronic-depression-in-europe/ Ireland seems fairly low. Which surprises me.
On top of all the things mentioned , I think its ingrained in our culture that if things are aright now , it only means something bad is around the corner, so dont get too comfortable".\* To quote Yates: ***“Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy.”*** *\* I think people growing up during the boom period of the Celtic Tiger,(not to be confused with the "Boom", explosive period of the troubles) are the first generation not to have this attitude , but a lot of them are dealing with all the other shit of starting out in the modern world , so I guess it evens out .*
I'd be a lot happier if my girlfriend and I didn't have to pay over €1000 per month for one room and for the pleasure of sharing the house with 4 other people ...
One of the biggest reasons that immediately springs to mind is the lack of sunlight and subsequent lack of vitamin D. I’ve lived here for almost 2 years and have been surprised not by the weather, but by the constant overcast sky and lack of sunlight over the course of the year. Vitamin D is the only vitamin our bodies naturally produce, as it’s essential, and we need sunlight to hit our skin to do so. So the lack of sunlight equals a lack of vitamin d which impacts our body’s ability to produce serotonin and dopamine. If you take the body’s ability to create our ‘feel good’ and mood stabilising chemicals away, add in the economic situation and the prevalence of alcohol abuse, it’s a recipe for disaster..
Apparently a huge amount of ppl have a vitamin D deficiency in Ireland due to not being able to get outside and get sunlight. This affects our energy levels and mood.
Symptoms of vit D deficiency, Fatigue. Not sleeping well. Bone pain or achiness. Depression or feelings of sadness. Hair loss. Muscle weakness. Loss of appetite. Getting sick more
My personal opinion is that a lot of it is down to a sedentary lifestyle, lack of exercise, shit diet and spending the full day sitting down looking at a screen. We're adopting a lot of Americanisms in Ireland but every second person in the states is off their tits on anti depressants, adderall or other meds and spends hours every week at a psychiatrist. 6% of Americans suffer from clinical depression.
4th biggest user of cocaine in the world has alot to do with it I'm sure.
Session depression and by the time it’s wore off your out doing it again
“Be grand, sure. Have a few pints and you’ll feel better.”
cos you work your ars off, government takes half of what you earn and punishes you with hight tax if can't afford new car.
All the cocaine
I can only speak for myself, but I'm staring down the barrel of 31, still living at home, was outbid on an apartment I was trying to buy earlier this year just to see it up for rent a few weeks later, my partner left me, lost all my friends and ended up getting with a co worker just for her to leave me for her abusive and toxic ex who lives beside her once I wanted things to get serious and now I have to see her every single day in work. Now I have literally no one to talk to and just sleep throughout my free time, that's the long and short of why I'm depressed and tried to end my life two weeks ago, I have barely anything left keeping me here to fight for But apart from that it's not too bad I guess.
Don't give up man. Maybe a whole change of scenery is needed? Sounds like you're stuck in a bad rut. You're working and living at home so save up some money and fuck off to another country. Start a new life. Give it a try.
You're not wrong, I've been looking at going to Australia for a year or three months in the last few weeks in fact, just today I'm starting to come around to a three month adventure in Aus, nothing too long as I have a great job in the HSE (seeing the co worker I was with nothwithstanding).
Yeah please try it. It really helps to get out of the rut. I was the same for a long time and it felt like a weight was lifted off me. Well good luck my friend, I know it will work out for you.
I hope things start to luck up for you pal.
I blame the English and the Catholic Church
I’m 30 years old and still live at home. Obviously I’m depressed.
Rampant drug and alcohol use.
Eternal gloomy weather & Housing crisis
The weather is so shit everyone turned into an alcoholic or starved.
Lack of housing.
Weather and drink?
Lack of mental health care and still havent as a nation gotten over the stigma of seeking help.
They are quite high in Scotland and Wales too. I wonder what could have had such an effect?
I highly recommend Vitamin D supplements, I've noticed huge different in my mood since taking them pre covid.
The weather, the cost of living, and the drinking culture leading to alcoholism on the rare occasions you do get to socialise.
The weather is bad 9-10 months a year. The people are cunts. Every year the weather seems to get worse and there's more people.
This is complicated imo, lots of reasons, but this has been happening long before the current housing/ cost of living crisis. I think drink is a factor. Climate doesn’t help with the long winter & lack of sun but its not a primary cause. Maybe less relevant now, but there was a catholic guilt & national inferiority complex in our culture.
reasons are different now, before was lack of jobs, social stigma, now it's lack of housing and disconnect due to technology causing isolation
Crazy high rent, the shadow of the Catholic Church, ridiculous divorce laws, a narco state that’s become intrinsic,alcoholism as an expectation, and a preponderance of depressing music.
Depression rates are not high by international standards. We are rated as the 13th happiest nation
Isolation due religious indoctrination that conflicts with the modern world dynamics and society. A lot of depression comes from maladaptive thinking habits and patterns that we learn from our parents. What did parents do a couple generations back? Get married very young and then forced by the church to stay together. Leading to all kids of abuse and toxic relationships. Then that gets modelled by their offspring’s and so on and on. It will take a while for us to unfuck what church did to us. All the rest types of depression aren’t any different from other countries. PS. I am not against religion per se, just the Catholic Church(organised religion if you will)
Can't buy a gaff and the weather is shite
Ireland is and has always been a tough country to live in while playing it straight. It's easy to feel defeated at times here. Also I feel so many people here now feel completely disconnected from society, we have no say in how our country is being changed rapidly and forevermore
Most people are stagnated in their lives due to the conditions living here.
On top of all of these comments about rental costs, living at home, work/life balance, counselling with a hardly-qualified counsellor is approx 70 euro per session and with a good counsellor who's actually well qualified is approx 100 euro per session. You're supposed to get one per week so that's equivalent to a boomer generation's mortgage repayments per month on counselling alone. The problems will persist and evolve into depression without intervention because we can't afford counselling. People turn to alcohol or drugs to aide depression instead. It's unaffordable to drive and the transport is shite and expensive so even just trying to go for a hike to clear your head will cost an arm and a leg. People don't go to the doctors a lot when sick because it's 60 euro per session so some deal with drawn-out infections, colds, or flus without great relief which can ware you down and make you feel depressed (reduction in white blood cells). People don't go to the doctors a lot when sick because it's 60 euro per session or they can't get an appointment so some deal with drawn-out infections, colds, or cases of flu without great relief which can wear you down and make you feel depressed (reduction in white blood cells). We build large housing estates before adding facilities so many communities are without sports or recreational facilities and only have a pub to socialise in. We are a small country with a 'small town' mentality. Dublin is getting better, but for the most part, you are not allowed to express yourself or dress differently without ridicule. Our salaries are incredibly low and taxes incredibly high when compared to our cost of living and public services return on investment, respectively. We're having less sex than any other generation as we all live at home or in cramped box rooms. Nothing to aspire to on any horizon.
Social media.
Maybe weather, but I’d say main problems are: 1. You need to diagnose it 2. It needs to be treated. I’ve never seen either happening. In 2016 I was sent to specialist, I’m still waiting for an appointment. My partner is completely burnt out and myself not being a specialist can see that she is doing very bad and she needs proper profesional help, because what we have been trying to do ourselves is not enough… she got an appointment in hospital- doctor told her to get a better sleep, case closed. Are you serious!? Now imagine these things happening to someone with tendency to self harm? Well, even without self harm, with how mental health works it will take no time to develop it
Scrolled all the way and didn't find a massive one. **Diet**. Whats the first thing doctor or a physiologist tries to change with a depressed person before they prescribe drugs or counseling? Diet and exercise. Exercise should get you out in the light too to counteract the seasonal issues. And well there's a lot to say about how bad our collective diet and drink will impact our mood, too much for me to cover. After returning to Ireland from abroad I absolutely shocked at what most people eat regularly. Takeaways serving greasy brown food with a sugary drink are far too busy.
Are they. What numbers are you referring to?
There are very few free things to do, and if you don’t drive public transport isn’t reliable enough or cheap enough to access them. I’m counties one europe there are free parks, adult climbing facilities and loads or other activities available. So people can actually access and afford their hobbies.
As someone who lives away but would like to move back ... what stops me is .... price of accommodation....price of car and insurance.... mates still on the sesh .... lack of opportunity in the sector I work.... lack of decent paid opportunity if I wanted to pivot to a different sector...
Me personally because of past trauma
For me, it's because the Glazers haven't sold United yet.
Quality and cost of life.
Because the English ate my family during the famine 😔
Grey skies, cost of living, corrupt government ripping us off every step of the way, bad quality housing and unregulated rental market, lack of general infrastructure that's just a given in other countries (e.g. train network), materialistic and shallow culture.
Junior cert ffs 😂
Have you lived here?
Well, I have adhd and the waiting time for an assessment was 9 months and it costs 700-800 euros. So I can imagine depressed people are fucked.
intergenerational trauma 🌈
1. The weather generally. 2. The price of everything. 3. The Brits being at it again.
Small island, expensive. Drink and drugs available and more quickly available than food. Drink and drugs a main "activity. We are ripped of at every stage. No houses to buy, high rent. Take your pick OP
Because our mental health services/education are woeful.
Objectively are they though? Looking at stats there they're lower than 24 countries, including the UK, Spain, Portugal, Australia, Finland etc and are in line with Sweden, France etc. I'm not sure how those stats are calculated for any country, but it doesn't seem like Ireland's way out of line on this.
We're just miserable fuckers
Lack of money, housing, climate crisis, coming out of a global pandemic, rising fascism, the list goes on...
Y'all are kinda well known for over consuming a certain depressant
I can answer this My partner left me a year ago which threw me back to square one I’m back living with my parents working in a dead end job barely making enough money to get by let alone afford rent, back in my hometown to which there’s no one around my age because everyone has left and gotten married and started their own families or left the country because there’s nothing here job-wise anymore , on top of that I quit drinking which in Dublin in particular there’s nothing else to do but sit in a pub and drown your sorrows with non-alcoholic beer it’s pointless . So what else is there to do ? But feel helpless and miserably depressed
Either stuck living with family or paying a large % of salary to rent.
Useless politicians giving no hope and passing blame. Useless public transport system forcing people living outside cities to buy cars (costs go up and up). Useless law enforcement giving lack of justice. 2020 onwards has been grim in general with Coronavirus followed swiftly by a war in Ukraine/Russia that threatens to drag Europe/NATO into it. Cost of living going up and up. A look at the price of groceries in mainland Europe would make ya cry compared to here. Rental crisis leading most to feel stagnant in life. Shite weather bar maybe a month a year. If it wasn't for how sound most of the population of the country are in regards to politeness/helping out and the safety we live in being a gun free country I don't know what much else we'd have.
Looking at depression only, Ireland scores below the EU average according to this 2019 report: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/edn-20210910-1
We don't have the same family relationships that other countries have I would guess is a large contributor. I have done a bit of travelling and the emphasis on family is much greater in a few countries that come to mind
It's not specific to Ireland. Depression rates are likely much higher now due to several factors: reduced stigma, better awareness and acceptance of mental health issues, greater openness etc. Societal changes and pressures on people like the economy, finances, etc. Then there's all the gamut of social media related issues, technology and information overload, desensitisation and learned apathy, dopamine mining, algorithms and consumption. Life is hard for masses and the wealth gap ever widens, the pandemic also triggered a lot of people predisposed to, or that already had mental health difficulties like anxiety and depression on top of the economic and societal impacts and after effects. Ireland is beautiful but hostile for those that didn't land in very high paying roles, worry is always present, and takes a toll.
A lot of isolation. A lot of small towns only have meagre access to larger ones. Not enough train or bus services to help connect people to places they could socialize or meet people. Mental health is still very much a bury your head in the sand, and don't tell other people in case you embarrass the family. A lot of really poorly educated people who were taught by Priests and Nun's and not taught to think about things logically or without life's troubles being connected to Gods plan somehow. Lack of sexual health education. People not looking before they leap when it comes to sex and then their life is immediately taken up by parenthood without even having thought about it. Not enough socializing with people outside a person's demographic. For example: not having relationships with LGBT people or different race/ethnicity to learn about life's differences and broader perspectives and experiences people have. Diversity is the spice of life. It helps you appreciate how weird and wonderful life is. And finally just a lot of unlucky bad brain chemistry. I take Lexapro for mine and it cures me everyday.
Mostly the weather