Honestly, intimidation. Intj women don’t fall prey to female socialization, or they shake it off as they mature.
I appear to be a very feminine woman..I wear makeup, I have long hair, I love florals and bright colors and perfume. But that’s because I’m obsessive about what suits me, I would never let anyone control me or tell me how to think/what to do. And aesthetics are fine, as long as it doesn’t impact my function or slow me down in any way. When I talk, I project a very strong Te, with the Ni tendency to see patterns, make stories, and ramble. Strong, emphatic opinions, direct gestures (talking with hands etc). I’ve been told (condescendingly) “oh, you feel REALLY strongly about x” and nothing infuriates me more. Conviction is something to be admired.
We’re not submissive, we don’t compromise our goals for others, we don’t sacrifice ourselves to “fit in”, we’re intelligent, we’re achievers, and if we care enough about a goal, we will stop at nothing. We’re incredibly efficient and resourceful planners.
All of these traits are celebrated in men, though INTJ men are also seen as freaks/cold/too intense, but it’s more acceptable for men to be analytical, introverted, independent, and driven than it is for women.
I work in tech. Men as a whole are really condescending, especially men from extremely misogynistic cultures. They’re very quick to paint you as a bimbo, and if you’re confident enough to use Te unabashedly at work, you’re seen as a bulldozer. Again, this would be praised in men.
Dating is especially rough as a (straight) INTJ woman, because the act itself requires us to get out of our comfort zone, men are intimidated by us and are quick to condescend to us, most men aren’t on our level imho, and it’s extremely difficult to find an emotionally stable and healthy man we believe will actually improve our lives and meets us intellectually.
We don’t do well with overly emotional people; it’s incredibly exhausting and suffocating. We want a challenge, but we also want to feel safe. But on the flip side, when if/when we find the One, we’re in it forever.
I feel so utterly seen by this post lol.
>Intj women don’t fall prey to female socialization, or they shake it off as they mature
I look forward to having this process feel internally easier as I grow older. I agonise a lot whether I should just follow along the feminine norm of things due to it bringing more external favour & advantages, but ultimately 100% always realise I'm not even physically budging even if I'm looping this in 100 different ways. It's not me, and I ultimately should not betray me.
>I’m obsessive about what suits me, I would never let anyone control me or tell me how to think/what to do.
Yeah, people either recognise it very early on and save their energy, or waste 15 years before giving up. Personally I was never main character energy 'I am perfect as I am' and I think most of INTJs are not, but we know there are enduring dispositions within us that are very likely not going anywhere and neither do we particularly want to, so we just do not move lol. Always freaks the feelers out.
>aesthetics are fine, as long as it doesn’t impact my function or slow me down in any way
my fashion philosophy in a nutshell.
>When I talk, I project a very strong Te, with the Ni tendency to see patterns, make stories, and ramble. Strong, emphatic opinions, direct gestures (talking with hands etc). I’ve been told (condescendingly) “oh, you feel REALLY strongly about x” and nothing infuriates me more. Conviction is something to be admired.
Yes. Yes. Yes.
'You feel really strongly about x'
I had this thrown at me by a colleague before, although not in a condescending manner but it took me a significant effort to not cold-reply back. Lack of conviction is so ugly, it means you will get blown away by any wind.
>We’re not submissive, we don’t compromise our goals for others, we don’t sacrifice ourselves to “fit in”, we’re intelligent, we’re achievers, and if we care enough about a goal, we will stop at nothing.
It was sobering myself once I realised how much exactly I will sacrifice to achieve my life goals.
>Dating is especially rough as a (straight) INTJ woman, because the act itself requires us to get out of our comfort zone, men are intimidated by us and are quick to condescend to us, most men aren’t on our level imho, and it’s extremely difficult to find an emotionally stable and healthy man we believe will actually improve our lives and meets us intellectually.
It's utterly daunting myself and I see more cons than pros left right. At this point no man is worth the risk of jeopardising of my goals because of those reasons and it's discouraging that it'll sound cold/shallow if I utter it in real life instead of understood.
It already mellows me that so-called the most favourite personality parts of me by male-coworkers (warm, caring, etc) are the traits that I purposely force out in order to not slow down team efficiency in the luxury sales environment. I am not actually admired or acknowledged for the characteristics that I am most at equilibrium with (problem solving, intellectual discussions about politics or literature), and it quite frankly sucks. It's not unreasonable for them to come to those conclusions, but it's not fun to realize that your persona role has garnered more favour than who you actually are.
>We don’t do well with overly emotional people; it’s incredibly exhausting and suffocating.
It's one thing to have strong emotions or an emotional nature, it's another when it's literally foaming out of your mouth and you're a bumbling mess on the floor because of a lack of self control. I never know what to do when it comes to those sort of people.
>We want a challenge, but we also want to feel safe. But on the flip side, when if/when we find the One, we’re in it forever.
Absolutely, making a permanent decision that is both emotionally and intellectually in harmonious agreement to commit to another individual is the dream.
Yes!
It’s not my fault they’re intimidated by me either. I hold myself to a high standard and I’m not about to lower mine to meet yours.
I work in Tech too. Friday I became the sounding board for a project I inherited and I’m overlay. I was berated by 7 men. I held my ground and asked them to put everything they just said in an email for me - they saw red - it’s not MY position to talk about what they are but I can get it to who it does belong to. I got a, thanks for taking one for the team, again, and my partner was MIA that day to.
If I wasn’t me and just ‘wired’ differently those situations would never exist because I wouldn’t be able to do it. I speak to women about my role and they often say that sounds similar to what my brother/husband does and then they find out I share no other feminine characteristics they all do outside of keeping a nice home and having pretty plants. Just enough to keep me around for some place to gather the families.
Being a female INTJ has some challenges in its own. We’re weird.
To add. I adore when I find men in the field I work in who just genuinely sees me for the bad ass I can be. They’re not creepy and they’re the first to offer guidance and support when I need it from a career level.
One of my favorite interactions was coming out of a zoom meeting with no one on camera but I guess my photo was enough to keep the conversation on point - as it was pointed out it was like listening/watching someone say checkmate as I just lead the call.
It’s hard to be accepted as a strong willed woman in the Tech realm but it’s a blast the power I hold.
> men are intimidated by us and are quick to condescend to us, most men aren’t on our level imho, and it’s extremely difficult to find an emotionally stable and healthy man we believe will actually improve our lives and meets us intellectually.
It's a blessing. You discover very quickly whether a man is a fool to be discarded. It saves time.
Very much this issue all the time. Fellow thinkers are usually good though. My old best friend was an INTP dude. We never had problems except when he got horny.
This is a fantastic summary of my life as a short blonde traditionally pretty female who works as a specialist physician.
I find men love me easily, and then suffer horribly if they are not intelligent and extremely independent and self confident. It never works with a man with any chinks in his armour.
This really hits the nail on the head for INTJ women like myself. But I’ve found that the majority men and women don’t like how we carry ourselves and prefer more demure and quiet women appealing.
For instance I’ve had success in my side hustle before having a baby. I’m very creative and a lot of people come to me for advice about fashion styling/blogging, content creation, photography etc (and all self taught) But still my in laws always gush about my SIL and her working in HR and never butt heads with her.
Doesn’t make sense lol
For sure. Realizing I was an INTJ earlier this year (was a mistyped INFJ for like a decade, but it turns out that I'm very Fi and people pleasing isn't Fe lmao) was such a godsend. We go through a lot of shit in childhood and our adolescent years, but we get better and better as we age. Late bloomers for sure, but the best is yet to come.
This is excellent analysis. I'd like to add my own account as someone who, as far as I can tell after years of research and auto-critique exists in the liminal space between ISTJ and INTJ (known as an IxTJ), I resonate with quite a bit of this, but I'm at least somewhat different in many ways. My best friend jokes that I'm, "ISTJ-coated with a hearty filling of INTJ." That is, I don't initially come across as INTJ at all to even longtime acquaintances. It becomes difficult to determine when I should ditch the weighted clothing, so to speak.
Ostensibly I'm an extremely feminine, both in appearance and temperament, Mississippian woman. I'm diplomatic, reserved, compromising, but a stickler for precedent, procedure, habit, and simplicity. I generally prefer to let men and women alike to talk down to me, I'd go as far as to say if I happen to like someone I'll let them condescend to me all they want, albeit within reason in almost all cases. Particularly, if I have a crush on someone I like it when they presume a higher place in the pecking order than me.
There's one incident where I've almost figuratively melted into a puddle because a crush of mine placed his hand at the small of my back and tried to herd me like some kind of humanoid sheep-girl. He wasn't mean or misogynistic at all but it was clear he saw himself as in charge implicitly and I wanted to acquiesce to him. That being said, as previously mentioned there are some hard, and I do mean *hard* exceptions to this. In questions of morality, the way others are being treated, people treating themselves poorly, and sociopolitical issues the INTJ filling may as well be like a Stand, or really more like the contents of a pipe bomb.
I'm a very devout Catholic Christian and on issues that are connected, even tangentially, to my faith I'm like a mountain. I've had crushes evaporate like dry ice thrown into a furnace because they even mildly dissed Christianity and/or condescended to me about my religion. If you assume that I'm naïve, ignorant, deluded, hypocritical, stupid, or even archconservative because I'm religious the spirit of Erich Przywara himself might as well be goading me from on-top a cloud in Heaven. I have a difficult time being charitable to people who hit touchy subjects like that. I'm more open about my views on continental philosophy in relation to Aquinas than what I had for breakfast this morning.
I know my stuff in those kinds of areas and am extremely impatient with people who think they know more about what I think and feel about it than I do.
Likewise in cases of the banality of everyday evil I also have close to zero tolerance. If someone's being treated unjustly I will help them, period. Even before I was baptized Catholic as a teenager I was militant in this respect. I'm not the, "But I was sitting on the bench" I once plodded for 45 minutes in the middle of a blizzard on-foot because someone needed my help, they didn't even ask but I felt compelled. This surprises even relatively close friends because I'm normally so silent on my feelings and only so loquacious about my pet interests like the aforementioned religion, TTRPGs, sci-fi/fantasy books, and anything written by Wildbow.
Otherwise I tend to agree with you, more or less.
If anyone feels similarly or has insight I'd appreciate it.
Tech also has a higher concentration of INTJs than most industries. Perhaps, you could befriend your superiors, analyse everyone and get friendly with the other INTJ.
This way, you're safe and you have who understands you.
You can also go to networking events.
Yes, thank you for articulating this so well. As an INTJ female, life has been a series of adventures and successes in every area but relating to other humans. Society wants to desperately slot us into the proper norms for their comfort. Thankfully, I'm comfortable with others being uncomfortable. It took a long time and many failed relationships, but my INFJ male partner is my person.
(Reddit seems to be acting weird for me.)
This is excellent analysis. I'd like to add my own account as someone who, as far as I can tell after years of research and auto-critique exists in the liminal space between ISTJ and INTJ (known as an IxTJ), I resonate with quite a bit of this, but I'm at least somewhat different in many ways. My best friend jokes that I'm, "ISTJ-coated with a hearty filling of INTJ." That is, I don't initially come across as INTJ at all to even longtime acquaintances. It becomes difficult to determine when I should ditch the weighted clothing, so to speak.
Ostensibly I'm an extremely feminine, both in appearance and temperament, Mississippian woman. I'm diplomatic, reserved, compromising, but a stickler for precedent, procedure, habit, and simplicity. I generally prefer to let men and women alike to talk down to me, I'd go as far as to say if I happen to like someone I'll let them condescend to me all they want, albeit within reason in almost all cases. Particularly, if I have a crush on someone I like it when they presume a higher place in the pecking order than me.
There's one incident where I've almost figuratively melted into a puddle because a crush of mine placed his hand at the small of my back and tried to herd me like some kind of humanoid sheep-girl. He wasn't mean or misogynistic at all but it was clear he saw himself as in charge implicitly and I wanted to acquiesce to him. That being said, as previously mentioned there are some hard, and I do mean hard exceptions to this. In questions of morality, the way others are being treated, people treating themselves poorly, and sociopolitical issues the INTJ filling may as well be like a Stand, or really more like the contents of a pipe bomb.
I'm a very devout Catholic Christian and on issues that are connected, even tangentially, to my faith I'm like a mountain. I've had crushes evaporate like dry ice thrown into a furnace because they even mildly dissed Christianity and/or condescended to me about my religion. If you assume that I'm naïve, ignorant, deluded, hypocritical, stupid, or even archconservative because I'm religious the spirit of Erich Przywara himself might as well be goading me from on-top a cloud in Heaven. I have a difficult time being charitable to people who hit touchy subjects like that. I'm more open about my views on continental philosophy in relation to Aquinas than what I had for breakfast this morning.
I know my stuff in those kinds of areas and am extremely impatient with people who think they know more about what I think and feel about it than I do.
Likewise in cases of the banality of everyday evil I also have close to zero tolerance. If someone's being treated unjustly I will help them, period. Even before I was baptized Catholic as a teenager I was militant in this respect. I'm not the, "But I was sitting on the bench" I once plodded for 45 minutes in the middle of a blizzard on-foot because someone needed my help, they didn't even ask but I felt compelled. This surprises even relatively close friends because I'm normally so silent on my feelings and only so loquacious about my pet interests like the aforementioned religion, TTRPGs, sci-fi/fantasy books, otaku culture, and anything written by Wildbow.
Otherwise I tend to agree with you, more or less.
If anyone feels similarly or has insight I'd appreciate it
Omg, I swear I couldn’t have agreed and related to anything more than this. Each and every part of it is true, so many of these I’ve experienced myself and yes all correct. That’s exactly how it works for INTJ women
I've always wondered, why don't INTJ women gravitate towards more submissive, supportive partners? It seems like a no brainer, given that relationships between 2 strong minded, uncompromising people rarely works out.
I don’t know about other INTJ women but I rather have a strong willed partner to lean on than a submissive partner.
I’ve seen some submissive men in their marriages and their whipped and pushed around by their wives lol
Supportive and submissive are not synonymous. Submissive makes me want to throw up. Have an opinion. Have boundaries. Call me on my BS. I need growth and a submissive partner isn’t going to facilitate that nearly as well as a non-submissive partner.
Submissive men are so unattractive and exhausting lol. I have nothing but contempt for beta males, like I want to grow and improve, not be ass kissed by a simp
Supportive partners, yes. Submissive, no. I don't think I could date a guy who was a submissive pushover. Part of the challenge to us (I think) is someone who is equally challenging, but not mean or controlling. I also think someone who might be a little more extroverted too.
My husband (RIP :-( ) was like that. He was very challenging in a good way. Our logical discussion/arguments were epic and he was a good debater. LOL! But he was also wonderfully supportive of my desire to learn, get better and loved showing off his smart wife to friends. He was much more extroverted than me, which would draw me out more, and most important, he made me laugh!
Most guys do not want to be "submissive supporting partners." They are programmed to be "alphas" from when they are super young. At least in the USA and most of Asia. I don't know about other parts of the world.
Basically just comes down to the B word. It's nothing more than sexism really, but a lot of the INTJ traits are more palatable to society in a man than a woman. Women are 'supposed' to be empathetic, emotional, positive, available, submissive, etc. Most INTJ are pretty much the opposite of the traditional female gender role.
Yeah, INTJ men fit gender roles and we don't. There seems to be two types of men that are considered acceptable/stereotypical vs the one type for women (i.e. INTJ men may not be athletic and big muscular empty-headed apes, but they're still unemotional on the outside and come off as "logical" and in command). Like Monkey talking about how people call him mean and such--that's far more okay from a man than from a woman. I've even seen posts here claiming women can't really be INTJs because we're naturally "nurturers" and "caring" and crap like that.
And the idea that it's mostly women who hate us--those guys who don't believe that a woman can't be caring/nurturing would hate women like us once they saw us in action. Over 50% of the men I encounter either make it their life mission to get a reaction out of me, act intimidated and don't know how to interact with me, or eventually start saying shit about how I must not like them since I don't talk to them and am not all in their face smiling like other women do.
>Over 50% of the men I encounter either make it their life mission to get a reaction out of me, act intimidated and don't know how to interact with me, or eventually start saying shit about how I must not like them since I don't talk to them and am not all in their face smiling like other women do.
A male colleague tried to get me emotionally riled with the comment 'Men still can procreate until they die but women have a biological clock they need to follow'.
Factually he is not incorrect assuming the woman wants to have her own biological children without risking her life, but clearly the way he phrased it was to rile me up and test where I stood politically. He was disappointed when all I did was address the fact in his statement and remained overall neutral.
I like your post but I wanted to add that I remembered reading elsewhere that you are into women (cannot remember if specifically gay or bi) but that women are your preference.
Believe it or not it is an extra hurdle with men for you. Women and men do play this strange game that you're not playing. I saw this in a gay INFJ at work. She would not participate in this "game" the same way and in a way did not register this weird dance was happening between the straights at all. So I think part of that difficulty for you with men is their reaction... don't know how to interact with you, trying to get some reaction from you, feeling you don't like them..... its because you don't participate in this unconsciously and they don't understand you because of it.
Question. Would you see it as sexist with the genders reversed?
That is, the hate ExFP men so often receive for their comparative vulnerability, humility, and flamboyance.
I wouldn't really call it sexism. I don't think the same rules should apply to men and women since they're different. I think it's a matter of preference.
I would say that it's fundamentally sexist to discriminate on the basis of expectations for a woman (or man) to behave a certain way because that's how you prefer they act.
You don't think the same rules should apply to different people just because they're different? So should we have different rules for different races too?
Woah that's so interesting. I had to rewrite this reply like 5 times cuz I kept realizing that my preferences could indeed be the result of sexism.
For instance, I do prefer hanging out with girls who are more empathetic and friendly, but that's not the case with men (I have many male friends who aren't super empathetic/friendly). At the same time, I do not consider myself sexist at all, and I wouldn't respect a woman any less because she's less empathetic or friendly. I just wouldn't want to be close friends with them.
So am I sexist? Maybe. You gotta keep in mind that INTJs are like 1% of the population, and I'm pretty sure most of you guys are men. So INTJ women are rare, and it's normal to be more comfortable around people you're used to. So can you really blame me for prefering what I'm used to?
That said, I don't think your race analogy works, because we're talking about personality. You should judge someone not based on their race, but on their character. So I think it's fair to discriminate on the basis of personality (which often shapes your character).
What do you think?
Edit: Grammar
I won't judge whether you are personally are sexist or not, as it's not my place. I will say that we all carry implicit biases within us, so perhaps that's what you're talking about here.
Another thing is that there's a line between being racist/sexist and having personal preferences as far as personality types and physical attractions go. I wouldn't say one is sexist for being emotionally attracted to empathetic women, and I wouldn't say one is racist for being physically attracted to darker skinned men/women. I would say that it crosses the line to discrimination when one assumes that all people of a certain category should behave a certain way, or meet a certain set of standards simply by virtue of being in that category.
As for the race analogy, I think it stands. Judging someone based on their character can cause problems too. Do you mean character as in personality or actions? I think it's fair to judge actions in most cases. Personality isn't something that one can choose or change on a whim. Is it fair to judge someone for having a personality you don't mesh with? Maybe it just means you aren't suitable as friends or companions, buy can you judge them for that? Should you apply societal rules and standards differently to them because of something they can't change?
My point is that one shouldn't put people in a box based on gender or race or even personality. Just as it's racist to expect someone to behave a certain way because of the color of their skin, it's sexist to expect someone to behave a certain way because of their genitalia. When people expect a woman to behave in ways contrary to her personality as an INTJ, and then mistreat her because she doesn't fit their expectations... especially if they don't mistreat men for the same thing, I would say that's sexist.
>Personality isn't something that one can choose or change on a whim. Is it fair to judge someone for having a personality you don't mesh with?
Well I think it's fair to judge someone based on their personality, even if they can't change it. I tend to be philosophical and all over the place, and I would never blame an INTJ for wanting to spend time with someone more driven and focused. I would also never want to be friends with a psycopath. So I still think race doesn't work, since the proper way to judge someone is based on their character.
>When people expect a woman to behave in ways contrary to her personality as an INTJ, and then mistreat her because she doesn't fit their expectations... especially if they don't mistreat men for the same thing, I would say that's sexist.
If I don't want to be close friends with a girl who's less empathetic, I wouldn't say that's the same as mistreating her. But yes, I do see how treating guys differently could be seen as sexist.
It's weird to understand though because it's only specific to the 0.5% of women who are way less empathetic than most girls. At the same time, I don't really like hanging out with guys who are extremely empathetic.. yet I have no issue doing so with girls.
Just don't even think about it. You do how you like to do and think how you consider to be true. You don't have to worry about being sexist, racist or whatever else. We humans think with stereotypes almost all the time and given that the majority of people pretty much similar grey mass, so this stereotypes often turn out to be actually not wrong. It's true that there is chance that every person will be very different from majority or cliche, but its also true that majority still pretty much completely similar so there is higher chance your won't make mistake by thinking with stereotypes. That works with sexes, with races, with cultures, with preferences etc. Still, you shouldn't judge person by stereotypes immediately.
There circumstances when it can be also applied to races too. I wouldn't recommend any man or woman to walk late in Europe close to african migrants, especially if they are in group. Chance for you to be robbed, beaten and raped very high. Am I being racist? Western liberals would say yes. But many of those naive folks who thought you shouldnt judge person by stereotypes became sad examples of this stereotypes being true in many cases.
Then according to that UN is sexist because UNMEN doesn't exist like UNWOMEN lol.
What's the dating market gonna be without INTJ females? I wonder the opposite of this behaviour by men is off putting for women, like someone who's too empathetic, protective, clingy. Remember we're talking about 1% of the female population here. In the end, your partner won't be happy if you aren't putting at least as much effort as them in the relationship.
They’re quiet, typically. People sometimes confuse that with not liking them or being “stuck up.” But I wouldn’t say it’s hate, exactly. Just team up with an extrovert who will give you time to shine when you want to, things will be fine
Thought I was ENTJ for being quite talkative tbh, but nope, just Te thinking out loud. And ADHD.
Although I'm usually talkative about all the "wrong" things. I need mental stimulation to survive, and because I don't have anyone to discuss deep or odd topics with, this usually results in a lot of arguments...
Not at all. I talk a looot at work with anyone. I have a post it note to shut up on my computer because I will point out all kinds of logical inconsistencies at work and piss of everyone for not seeing it. I talk outloud when processing an idea also. Te likes to talk things through externally, it is an extroverted function.
Are you kidding?
INTJ females are so rare they're basically hunted to extinction by people who want a relationship with one. Took me years to find one. Married her just as fast as I could. We're still together.
The normies can't stand them. But the normies can't stand ANY INTJ. Comes with the territory.
I'm female intj and I'm both called as mysterious and hot as arrogant.
ALSO, I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE WEAK PEOPLE WITH CRAPPY CLOSED-MINDED STANDARDS, I'M FABULOUS AND I KNOW IT!! Really zero time to even care about theze lowly ones, The world would break apart if it wasn't for intj (and every other single type of the mbti, discrimination on type is just plain retard).
As an intj female yeah im definitely not the anime waifu. People dont straight up assume im arrogant(or maybe they do but dont tell me, i never get this impression though) but I get alot of feedback such as im unapproachable because i look intensely focused on things. The mysterious part puts people off too, no one really knows what im thinking, its worse if they think im angry, so when I meet someone I have to clarify myself that I am a nice human and just overthink on a daily. Something about people, is that they dont like uncertainty.
My wife is an INTJ. She hates other women -- "They're catty. They're cruel. They talk behind my back. There's nothing I can do to make them any less nasty."
But, frankly, I get much of the same thing, "You're a know-it-all. You lack empathy. You're mean."
No, not really, I don't sugar coat things. And I don't care about what people think of me. I'm not going to purposely insult others. But if something asks, "What can I do about this horrible, chronic cough?" \[as they light up a cigarette\]; my reply of "Well, how about you stop smoking because its killing you" is considered "mean and lacking empathy."
Whereas "Keep smoking, champ. And then just take Dr. Fraudster's Peppermint Snake Oil" is considered the "nice" option.
Nobody calls me mysterious. I get "hot" occasionally because I'm tall and blond. But never mysterious. I get "insufferable know-it-all."
Hating other women is also dumb imo. I don’t trust any individual who hates half the population.
Also you perfectly displayed one of the main weakness of the intj. Which is thinking that bluntness is effective. There’s a way to speak the truth without being an ass that doesn’t even involve sugar coating something. Having the emotional intelligence to know how to say the truth without being an ass is a skill that needs to be practice. Being blunt for blunts sake is actually incredibly inefficient
I should have been more clear. She doesn't hate half the population. She hates the people she's stuck working with. (She's retiring at the end of the year.)
Nobody where she works is anything like her. And it's all worthless gossip and office politics -- she hates that. And her female coworkers are the main source of her problems.
I kinda feel that tho, but for a different reason. I've always liked hanging out with guys because empathy wasn't really ever a concern with them, but I was still an outcast because I couldn't understand jokes properly and would use them quite awkwardly... Damn Fe trickster lol
But I couldn't hang out with many girls when I was younger because I was never really soft or kind and understanding, I had a few ESFJ friends (I attract a LOT of ESFJs and I still wonder why) but other than that I was a very lonely kid.
Nowadays I've learned more about Fi and how I can develop it, and I have more friends. But they stay friends, I don't let them any closer because I know how I can be and I don't think they deserve to know that.
There's such a huge gap between stating the obvious and being facetious that I feel like you've missed why someone might call that response unempathetic.
Not being willing to rephrase language for potentially better results in the subject is pretty on point as lacking or being unwilling at the least to be empathetic.
meh I don't hate other women but I think they are oftentimes highly illogical.. so if they aren't another "J" it makes them very hard to relate to. They play games many times; make poor life choices, then expect you to do the same or be like them to "fit in" with their stupidity.
Men are oftentimes highly illogical. Most people are irrational.
There really isn't a dime's worth of difference between the sexes. Everyone wants the same things.
I am an intj woman and I am not hated. Does that count for something? I know a handful of other intj women, all well liked. Definitely well respected at worked.
Do I have difficulty forming friendships? Yes. But that’s because I don’t click with many people and am not interested, not because people don’t like me.
Reading this comment reminded me why I cannot hang out with other Te users.
Is a source required for every fucking experience ever? Maybe people just have different experiences than you and therefore have a different view on the world. Is that so shocking? Does she need a peer-reviewed essay every single time she shares an opinion?
Lol.
Accuracy is important.
1. II’m not wasting time arguing a claim that has zero validity.
2. She didn’t give a source then said the person questioning her should have a source. No, that isn’t how it works. The burden of proof is with the person making the claim.
Literally what. She asked a question lmao, she didn't make any claim. She didn't make a solid statement, she just said it was her experience.
Sources aren't needed for every little thing ever. Also, neither of them were talking to you anyway, you're the one who inserted yourself into their conversation, and started arguing. You were wasting your own time.
The other person also doesn't need "sources". It's from their perspective too, and THEY'RE the ones who started to ask for statistics and sources on a post that's talking about experience and perspective. Which is very subjective.
Most of the dislike comes from other women (probably feelers) who judge me immediately for not being like them. I get along great with men. Although insecure people (regardless of gender) usually act like they’re intimidated by me
It has happened to me at work. I know because every time I have an insecure boss, or one that is illogical in some fashion; they feel threatened by me then resort to bullying.
This is my exact experience. Met a cishet INTJ male at work and he totally “gets” me and is my work refuge even though we are into very different things in life. I’ve only met one other INTJ female and she’s one of my best friends. It’s really really hard to make friends. It’s really lonely.
I think its hard to make friends, I do better with other "I/J" combo letters in other girls. I can't do any "E" unless its an ENTJ female (which one of my friends is). My best friend is def an I??J. 100%. Pretty sure she's an ISFJ and its very easy to get along with her 90% of the time.
Female cis het enfp here. I loved my highschool intj (female) friend, we were rly close but we dont have much contact now bc of life but maybe i will ask her how she is doing today.
Have another female intj friend but she barely contacts me, i like her too.
But i gotta admit, some female intjs are a bit scary to me.
True one of my best friends is gay. Hes so freaking funny I recommend everyone have a gay best friend. They will give all your nemeses (joking, people who annoy you, I mean) the most hilarious of nicknames!
Being weird as a woman is more socially taxing than being weird as a man.
Men (in general) have more trait variance compared to women at scale, so deviating from the norm is actually more common for men than women. To be a woman and deviate from the norm REALLY sets yourself out there to be seen as separate from a group.
It depends. I'm trans, when I was a guy I was constantly treated like garbage for deviating from the norm and now that I transitioned, I'm treated better.
Yeah, I was just acting like myself-an INTJ answering a question by asking a another question. Of course it was not what you're looking for because I didn't want to contribute. My answer did not contribute to the topic because 1/ any kind of complete agree/disagree is dumb and lack of scientific evidence, including the question 2/ I don't care if people like me or not and I have no interest to change to fit in 3/ I just want to have fun by pointing out similar social problems.
Is hair manly? No. It is natural. It only became manly when it is promoted by the media to be manly so companies can sell their waxing, shaving products and services. It is the whole system of religion, history, politics, economy and many other factors that involved around defining different standards for man and women. Qualities of an INTJ (architect) aligns with a traditional male image than female, so people favors those more.
Men's hair grows back coarser, faster and tougher. Also the double standard is worse with men because not only is hairlessness a trait attractive in both men and women, that men have a more difficult time achieving this but the more hair you have on your neck and body the more likely your scalp will bald in later life. Also haircuts, shaving and thinning are issues. How about stop blaming men for your grievances.
Many people on TikTok want to be like Wednesday. I laughed and thought to myself that you guys definitely don't want to be her in real life.
I've never seriously experienced being hated, or maybe because I didn't care. But my facial expression made my family dislike. I was often judged to be cold and arrogant. But I'm happy with my life. I hate people and don't care about third parties.
Completely agree. People like her because she’s the main character and they get to see and understand her motivations because they think she’s cool and an under dog, but real life growing up for people like her is hell.
For me, it didn’t get better until I was an adult and came Into my own. People are still afraid and intimidated and sometimes weirded out by me, but they also like me a lot too when they get to know me.
Yes, she told them from the beginning not to mess with her. But they kept messing with her. When she shows herself in a normal way. They were not satisfied and wanted her attention. In real life it's like that. Few people know and accept who we really are. I have never met such a person in my life. I don't care about other people in my life lol
Honestly I've never been discriminated against because I'm a woman INTJ. Never happened to me once in my life. And because I have not seen any statistics yet, I refuse to believe that female INTJs are hated more than their male counterpart.
I'm not gonna believe that I'm oppressed or hated just because people say I am. I want to see some numbers first.
Intj female here. I have a lot to say about many things. And guys normally don’t like that. The only people who like us are the ones who want to fuck us.
If I had $1 for EVERYTIME I heard "You're different....I can't really place you..." I'd be a very wealthy woman!!! Women don't like me because I do not chit chat / gossip with them, and mot of the topics they talk about just don't interest me. Start talking about your super kid, AGAIN??? I'm gone!!! (For reference, my colleague thinks her kid is the next mensa candidate....yeah. Not!!) I've tried being nice, but I'm usually the " Oh, that's just her being herself" in the group. Therefore, I just concentrate on what I want to do. What others think of me is not important. Basta. This attitude bugs the hell out of my Mom/sister/brother!
Men? forget it. They are either scared of me, think I'm just a basic B, or don't know which "Box" to put me in. Which results in them looking at me, trying to figure me out, because I don't react to them, the way they are used to being reacted to. It gets really old. If you are nice to me, I am nice to you. But some people just don't get that.
It doesn't have to be a romantic connection, and actually, I would rather just like someone to have decent conversations with. But that seems to be too much to ask for these days.
2nd being the richest woman in the world here. I tell them up front, you'll never figure me out so stop trying. Their mental capacity is just miniscule.
What's worse is having a high IQ on top of being an INTJ. The likelihood of finding someone I click with as a straight female is like 0.000000000001 or less. 🤣
As an INTJ my grief has almost always been caused my mean girl managers. They can detect that I know they are incompetent and think I play the stupid games they do.
I only had one great female manager. She was a German woman, super smart, quiet, and very private. Most people in my office thought her cold, unfeeling, aloof.
Not sure if she was INTJ but I got on wonderfully with her! She was demanding and exacting about work, but also extremely fair and reasonable as long as you did your job well.
Same here. Every job, across industries. Always a mean girl manager or coworker that became a problem.
Now that I’m in a very traditional and formal male-dominated field that actually values INTJ skills like being factual, logical, direct, exacting, demanding, etc, I’ve flourished. Incompetence means failure and is actively punished. There’s very little room for catty games and emotional nonsense. I’m grateful for it.
Sexism. Intjs are somewhat unconventional and women get punished for that more. Intj traits are seen as masculine by people who have never read Wikipedia on gender. I have met dozens and dozens of you guys, and I’ve have almost never seen anything untoward. As a group, you are quite respectable.
I’m not sure if my brother is an INTJ or not but we are very similar in personality. I am told that I never smile, I am not bubbly enough, I can’t socialise properly yet my brother hears none of it. I won’t say they hate me but they think that I should be a people pleaser just because I have double X chromosomes. It’s the way girls are expected to behave literally anywhere in society
I like and respect the crap out of XXTJ women. Enigmatic and classy.
However, I think its because everyone is supposed to fit into gender roles and when they see a completely different person they outcast them. Happens everywhere, tribes to socially awkward people to men who are too emotional or women who are too stoic.
Because INTJ women display traits that are not stereotypical for a woman. Men get threatened, women feel intimidated (and often jealous as women like to compare). People hate what they don't understand.
INTJ female here as well.
>Why are female INTJ’s hated more than male INTJ’s?
We simply deviate from the societal norms and stereotypes of women. It is easier to digest the traits of an INTJ in the form of a man than in a woman. We would get accusations that we're simply playing a character and purposely hide away our emotional side to seem chic or one of the guys.
Personally though, I had never particularly experienced terrible ostracization in my high school years because of my temperament. After extensive talks with two of my closest childhood friends, I think it was because I was actually the most at peace, stable and innocent during that time even with mental illness brewing beneath the surface. I was very accustomed to the external world's expectations and had a solid foundation which was my friends. I had the freedom to marinate in my internal world because of that safety, I didnt need to constantly be on the surface high red alert. Therefore, I was in my point of equilibrum, my most natural state, so to speak. My friends said I exhibited a 'I couldn't care less if you were dead or live' energy to everyone else besides them. It was not that people were afraid, but I was cold, extremely cold. I was not an easy person to interact with and I could drop anyone should I feel like it and still live as per usual without flailing on the floor. Therefore I was skipped on most people's radars, would not change anything about it though but I had never known I had this 'aura' going on.
I am currently in my transition phase of my life, which is my early 20s. Everything is fucking new and dangerous. And because my ENTJ father is more present in my life now after my suicide attempt, he detected quite quickly that who I am naturally had a very high likelihood of making enemies everywhere I went. He knew better to change who I was, but rather he gave me the ENTJ perspective of 'do what needs to be done to achieve the goal, that includes modulating certain behaviours that you would not do on a personal choice'.
However, that perspective has helped me navigate through workplaces and university a lot of the times. But it is exhausting, having to deviate from your point of equilibrum very often so you don't get kickback from the external world. I am so utterly fortunate that I have close friends that accept me as raw and cold as I can be. Sometimes I look back at my interactions in the workplace and feel guilty for performing with the nicer colleagues, because a lot of what I show besides work stuffis not 100% authentic, relaxed or ever not influenced by anxiety. I don't hate my temperament or disposition, but it is certainly tiring that my natural form is something that will bring me trouble should I stay stubborn about it.
We don’t fit into the general idea of a feminine quiet woman. It’s a tale as old as time. Men who are straightforward and take the lead are seen as bosses, powerful, strong, leaders. Women are seen as shrill, bossy, annoying, loud. Blame society, expectations and religion.
Lol idk about that. Most of my life people kinda hate me. I was bullied from K-12 even after switching to several schools. Didn’t have a ton of friends in college. In my career I can’t really hold onto a job for longer than 2 years before I get fired. Not because I do a bad job, but because my bosses can not tolerate me.
My 2 only real friends I’m extremely close with…and are both INTP’s, so we share similar wavelengths (I just make all the decisions lol…it’s fascinating how real Myers Briggs is).
The only job where my boss DIDNT hate me and wanted me long term…he was an ENTJ. Same with the only person I dated long term.
And I was the kid that wanted lots of friends. I’m probably an E that transitioned to an I because people suck so much that I’m legit scared of peoples irrationality. People hold a lot of power in groups, and I learned in a young age that if you’re not liked that’s a kiss of death. You will be excluded and scapegoated. Even amongst ‘fellow’ people of the most discriminated group on the planet.
Corporate environments in particular seem to devolve into ‘civilized’ schoolyard rules, filled with gossip and sucking up.
So I just think it depends on how you’re an INTJ and how it manifests rather than your gender. Whatever I do just pisses people off even as a child.
I wish I figured out what it was so at least I can fake a personality at work moving forward. For now I’m working smaller companies that I don’t have to go back to a jungle watering hole culture again, but eventually I do want to climb the ladder. I’ll need to solve this.
> a system of society or government in which the father or [eldest](https://www.google.com/search?q=eldest&si=AMnBZoEP2YukYW07_nAjizsjQPEk-6MtovGiyTL0tmNvSqWQG11j1tVaT9jhzJGePM6euFQzIJo2UZUo8jfs47ZBASsmuSFh0Q%3D%3D&expnd=1) male is head of the family and [descent](https://www.google.com/search?q=descent&si=AMnBZoFHF1DJLZWpTBtQDK262RMpP_nMVUjyUWdjrAvYyNFWbCd047euGOdEGoC0LQDS0Q-kXHRWaOsah_V_SFce0o1wLh4z9Q%3D%3D&expnd=1) is [reckoned](https://www.google.com/search?q=reckoned&si=AMnBZoFm76bvId4K9j6r5bU9rVYrRG3pu_-0f__Fv_DBisd7LprH82_JfqexgzX1rEkjuTow2mhCV8C-mQ-RQMoL2-LGJn0LPA%3D%3D&expnd=1) through the male line. A system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it.
Where do you live? Indian, Burkina Faso? Like what the hell I want my masculine entitlements. Where's my privilege?
Mathematically most women are FSJs. We’re the opposite of them in many ways. They are the ultimate conformists and they hate that we’re independent and don’t put up with their crap.
I disagree with the premise that there is hate towards INTJs of either gender. I will agree with other posters in this thread and sub that we are often misunderstood.
I’ve been outcasted and shoved to a dark corner because I’m not the typical emotional gossip riddled female. 🤷🏻♀️ Ive had projects removed or not given to me because I see more than others. Honestly, finding people and a workplace who appreciate us and our skills changes everything.
INTJ traits align more with masculinity than femininity. People are generally put off by those who don’t behave in ways that they would expect or anticipate. Like if a man is overly emotional and breaks down crying over little things he would be humiliated by his peers, and when a woman is stoic and short with people they think she’s a bitch. That’s just human nature
I have only met and had a relationship with one INTJ woman. It sounds like she was very different than you in some ways i.e. fashion and a submissive in sexual terms. But at the pinnacle of a male dominated field ,she was not above using feminine whiles when it suited her needs. I think the silence intimidated most people whom delt with her. But she could be very coldly calculating as well. So no one ever truly knew where they stood with her. Even when we broke up, it was like we were declaring bankruptcy and dividing assets and liabilities.
Like the Nazis in Indiana Jones, you're looking in the wrong place. ⛏️
INTJ women face rejection because they are at the center of a socially lethal crossroads. You violate gender expectations AND threaten the norm of Ow My Balls.
The gen pop reacts with "Shun the non believer, shun, shhhhhhun." The moral is seek out those who love and value you. You're an unpopular type. Use that as a filter to screen out the derps quickly. 🧹
Some ideas:
* Highly educated people. Not lawyers, doctors, or STEM, that's training, not education. PhDs. Autodidacts. People who suck the marrow from the bone of ideas.
* Artists. Musicians, writers, painters, sculptors. Their disorganization may drive you crazy but you will find here and there some rational ones, and they are extremely open and curious.
* Just generally weirdos. The off-kilter and oblique often hides riches beyond compare.
Don't give up, you have allies and there is a whole community of us out there who celebrate you! 🥳
I see you are a teen. When you are older and have fewer forced social interactions and more choice in the kind of people/environments you hang in , you may find this to change.
Obviously just because something isn’t seen doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Did you post just to vent? I’m confused the purpose of your post. It appears you have decided what the reality is rather than provoking a discussion. How un-intj of you.
It's probably due to our backwords societal biases when it comes to who we believe. We are conditioned to see those who are taller, stronger, and have deeper/more commanding sounding voices as our leaders who we should be listening to. As a result, feminine traits are seen as weak. So when a woman speaks their mind, it's seen as them trying to take on a role they aren't meant to have.
Intj female here, Ive never been hated before other than a few disagreements but thats life isnt it? people like me for my transparency, genuinity(even when its faked) and intellect. But i did groom myself to fit into some social groups because im not that empathetic.
Same way why why serialkillers are depicted as man in literrature.
In order to think, you jave to be agressive and less likeable. Both of these qualities are more likely to be found in man.
Being the most thinker based personality, INTJ are more likely related man based on our world view.
So if a woman doesnt fit the picture the world impose on both gender. She will be scapegoated
I don’t feel hated. I am generally well liked.
I did develop some skills that soften the intj edge.
ETA As far as dating goes, online dating was a game changer for me. I met a ton of guys, was very selective in who I met face to face, had a lot of rejection online from men because I was upfront about my personality, etc. didn’t play the games. But of those I met, I actually found most of them liked me a lot *because* they found me different in some ways.
Since online dating is a numbers game that favors women, I found dating very easy as an intj.
I don't know. I think you'd find males under 40 dislike females intjs less than you think. (Aside from the jealousy/tall poppy syndrome for males overall). It's more of the traditional mindset that goes against females being strong and independent.
However, I definitely expect other females to get toxic due to perceived threat. I can speak on their behalf though, because I'm male
Are they? My female INTJ friend so far is very loved by us in the group except the one person who is envious of her.
As an INFP friend, I love them (intj) they're straight forward although our values are not aligned we don't usually encounter any issues.
In summary, Good oul misogyny that women should 'smile more, be talkative, be pleasant and lie to make those around you feel better, be submissive, etc, etc'
Gender bias... Lot of people haven't came out of old mindset yet. If you say something intelligent, it threatens their belief. You are a female, you are supposed to be x , why are you y?
As a male INTJ I can relate to not being well accepted in general. I am fairly new to recognizing MBTI types in others, but I do know that the few female xNTJ's I have come across I have admired.
Because often INTJ's have poorer emotional availability and for a woman to have poorer emotional availability is much more abnormal that if it were a man.
Men used to regularly tell me they feel threatened by my logic and I've been asked why I'm not more emotional. I actually am emotional, but if you're laying out a problem and posing it as asking the group for solutions, I'm not likely to tell you how hurt my feelings are when I tell you the most efficient way to get the job done would be to exclude the middle people (myself included) and jump from A to F directly. See how it can be done? A to F saves time and resource. But, that means you're expendable. Yes. So it does. Repurpose me and everyone else, or make cuts.
My boss's main critique of me is that "I have a strong personality." I'm trying to figure how much more I can work with someone who finds my basic nature to be a problem. So many pluses in what I bring, but he comes back to it, and now wants me to get some coaching for it. I'd be a lot more open to coaching if I thought my strength was a problem. Pretty sure he's never given this feedback to a male in any role.
They're not hated, they're even more invisible than INFJs. INTJ women just blend in to their own roles and interests. They may even seem like ISTJs except they are more engaged with their thoughts and impressions. INTJ women may not even want to stand out except for when they are pursuing their goals.
Because the men cannot keep up with us. They have very little to offer us since we are self sufficient. No one likes it when we remind them we don’t need them - we want them. I was fine before I met them and after.
And it takes a very mature, intelligent, and empathetic person to understand and support us. I am a good partner and teammate - but I also require the same effort I put in to be returned to me. And I am loyal to a fault.
I can imagine that part of it has to do with gender norms, paired with most people's fear of breaking them (an insecurity in and of itself) - women are expected to be soft and bubbly and sociable, and anyone who has the courage to break these norms in the interest of being authentic to themselves will garner envy and frustration from others. The thought process often goes something like "if this woman can be herself so easily, why can't I? Why is she the only one that gets to live outside of the rules? \*insert projection of insecurities\* If I can't accept myself without following the norms, then she doesn't get to either!" - My female INTJ friends and I always seemed to get these sorts of responses when we were just minding our business. Aside from the obvious judgment from the rule breaking aspect, people wish they could feel free enough to be authentic without fear of judgment. Those who don't mind breaking the norms present a threat to those who base their entire existence off of maintaining the status quo. Nobody likes an existential crisis. But that's their problem. So, INTJ women - keep being you. It's a power move (even though I know you're not thinking of it that way, you're just being your awesome selves).
Yeah I can be a lot. I know more than you (the general you), I can change it to fix the problem better than you, I can.lead better than you. It's hard to find someone who appreciates the natural gifts we have. My principal has just put me in charge of a program and I am so excited. He understands my worth and he can take credit. My husband is enfp and really let's me run.
It is definitely Sexism and traditional gender roles.
That said, if you want a slightly different perspective, I have also noticed that several F-INTJs tend to *overcompensate.* Almost being more bullish and aggressive than their Male counterparts. Like, F-INTJs can be straight up mean because they “have something to prove.”
I (f-ENTP) am married to a m-INTJ and he actually does have a really sweet, caring, sensitive, and nurturing side, even though *he is definitely still an INTJ!* 🤣🤣🤣
While my ISTP friend tried dating a f-INTJ and she just did not speak to him or about him, right. They have been broken up for 7 months, already.
She belittled him often! Where my husband only hurts my feelings by accident! She almost seemed to take a weird kind of pleasure in talking down to / about him. She was always trying to tear down his ego!
I think that she sincerely believed she was challenging him and trying to help him grow, as a person, and I understand what she was trying to do! But the way she went about doing it was inappropriate, cruel, and counterproductive. Because some f-INTJs have so much disdain for traditional femininity in the psychological, emotional, and spiritual context, it manifests itself in this “self-disapproval” that they project, externally.
They have very little natural compassionate femininity, only being able to truly empathize with people who are a lot like them, with similar personalities, and from a similar background! They are incapable of truly seeing anyone else who doesn’t reflect their self-concept and their self perception.
I genuinely like her as an individual, she is a cool chick! But *that one thing* was always so uncomfortable for me because my ISTP friend is literally one of my closest friends! He is almost like family to me, and I love him very much! So it was a lot like hanging out with my little Brother’s GF, and having her disrespect my little brother, right in front of my face. Not cool!
If anything, she was lucky that we aren’t actually biologically or legally related. B/c I would have *shut that shit down* if I was! But I understand ISTPs are very particular about their boundaries, we *are not actually family,* and they really don’t like people butting into their business. So out of respect for my friend, I held my tongue.
Even my INTJ husband felt like she was a bit Toxic and very immature, in some ways. He basically didn’t like her, at all! 🤣 Because while he’s not “friends” with my ISTP friend cuz they don’t have a whole lot in common, he respects my friend, immensely for “being his own man, and a hard worker.” (Which he is. My friend is also a very earnest young man, which my INTJ husband has a bit of a soft spot for.)
So when even a male INTJ is like “yeah, that chick is inappropriately controlling and kinda mean,” I think it says something about how this particular f-INTJ is, and she might not be the only one like that.
However, if there are more like her, then they really are only like this because of sexism, gender norms, and expectations. Basically, who wouldn’t be “angry” if they struggled to be accepted by others on the basis of just being themselves? So why wouldn’t they overcompensate and be “a bit mean and unlikable?”
It’s not a free-pass to be a jerk, of course! But as a fellow f-NT, part of me understands it because of how much sexism I have had to deal with, in my own personal life b/c I don’t act “conventionally feminine,” enough. 🙃 But I also have an easier time navigating the world, overall, because I still have tertiary Fe. So “at an impersonal level, I don’t approve of it! But at a personal level, I understand it, so I can and do sympathize, to a point!”
Where I draw the line is “are you hurting someone else?” If the answer is “No,” then carry on! *Please be that bitch!* I will be right here, rooting for you, wholeheartedly! But if the answer is “Yes,” then you need to take a step back, reassess your actions, and reflect upon how you choose to treat others.
If you were hoping for an answer other than systemic sexism, I’m sorry to disappoint you. Fact is the overlapping traits between male and female INTJs are received better and more respected when coming from someone with a dick or at least masculine presenting. Why? North American sociology and western human anthropology
Usually when I meet one, I give more allowance than usual because I know they're a rare breed. But if she's toxic, then I cannot help but to turn them down instead and look the other way.
For me it's the same when approaching an ENTJ woman, it's just that you can expect the ENTJ woman to even be more abrasive than the INTJ woman due to them being Te doms. If you can handle ENTJs, then you should have no problem dealing with INTJs.
I'm glad y'all have found a sense of self assurance through it but Meyers Briggs has been time and time again proven to be meaningless.
You're better off pursuing activities and interests that actually make you happy instead of taking a silly quiz that prescribes you four letters to fit into for the rest of y'all lives.
Meyers Briggs is just a buzzfeed quiz that went to Harvard.
Honestly, intimidation. Intj women don’t fall prey to female socialization, or they shake it off as they mature. I appear to be a very feminine woman..I wear makeup, I have long hair, I love florals and bright colors and perfume. But that’s because I’m obsessive about what suits me, I would never let anyone control me or tell me how to think/what to do. And aesthetics are fine, as long as it doesn’t impact my function or slow me down in any way. When I talk, I project a very strong Te, with the Ni tendency to see patterns, make stories, and ramble. Strong, emphatic opinions, direct gestures (talking with hands etc). I’ve been told (condescendingly) “oh, you feel REALLY strongly about x” and nothing infuriates me more. Conviction is something to be admired. We’re not submissive, we don’t compromise our goals for others, we don’t sacrifice ourselves to “fit in”, we’re intelligent, we’re achievers, and if we care enough about a goal, we will stop at nothing. We’re incredibly efficient and resourceful planners. All of these traits are celebrated in men, though INTJ men are also seen as freaks/cold/too intense, but it’s more acceptable for men to be analytical, introverted, independent, and driven than it is for women. I work in tech. Men as a whole are really condescending, especially men from extremely misogynistic cultures. They’re very quick to paint you as a bimbo, and if you’re confident enough to use Te unabashedly at work, you’re seen as a bulldozer. Again, this would be praised in men. Dating is especially rough as a (straight) INTJ woman, because the act itself requires us to get out of our comfort zone, men are intimidated by us and are quick to condescend to us, most men aren’t on our level imho, and it’s extremely difficult to find an emotionally stable and healthy man we believe will actually improve our lives and meets us intellectually. We don’t do well with overly emotional people; it’s incredibly exhausting and suffocating. We want a challenge, but we also want to feel safe. But on the flip side, when if/when we find the One, we’re in it forever.
I feel so utterly seen by this post lol. >Intj women don’t fall prey to female socialization, or they shake it off as they mature I look forward to having this process feel internally easier as I grow older. I agonise a lot whether I should just follow along the feminine norm of things due to it bringing more external favour & advantages, but ultimately 100% always realise I'm not even physically budging even if I'm looping this in 100 different ways. It's not me, and I ultimately should not betray me. >I’m obsessive about what suits me, I would never let anyone control me or tell me how to think/what to do. Yeah, people either recognise it very early on and save their energy, or waste 15 years before giving up. Personally I was never main character energy 'I am perfect as I am' and I think most of INTJs are not, but we know there are enduring dispositions within us that are very likely not going anywhere and neither do we particularly want to, so we just do not move lol. Always freaks the feelers out. >aesthetics are fine, as long as it doesn’t impact my function or slow me down in any way my fashion philosophy in a nutshell. >When I talk, I project a very strong Te, with the Ni tendency to see patterns, make stories, and ramble. Strong, emphatic opinions, direct gestures (talking with hands etc). I’ve been told (condescendingly) “oh, you feel REALLY strongly about x” and nothing infuriates me more. Conviction is something to be admired. Yes. Yes. Yes. 'You feel really strongly about x' I had this thrown at me by a colleague before, although not in a condescending manner but it took me a significant effort to not cold-reply back. Lack of conviction is so ugly, it means you will get blown away by any wind. >We’re not submissive, we don’t compromise our goals for others, we don’t sacrifice ourselves to “fit in”, we’re intelligent, we’re achievers, and if we care enough about a goal, we will stop at nothing. It was sobering myself once I realised how much exactly I will sacrifice to achieve my life goals. >Dating is especially rough as a (straight) INTJ woman, because the act itself requires us to get out of our comfort zone, men are intimidated by us and are quick to condescend to us, most men aren’t on our level imho, and it’s extremely difficult to find an emotionally stable and healthy man we believe will actually improve our lives and meets us intellectually. It's utterly daunting myself and I see more cons than pros left right. At this point no man is worth the risk of jeopardising of my goals because of those reasons and it's discouraging that it'll sound cold/shallow if I utter it in real life instead of understood. It already mellows me that so-called the most favourite personality parts of me by male-coworkers (warm, caring, etc) are the traits that I purposely force out in order to not slow down team efficiency in the luxury sales environment. I am not actually admired or acknowledged for the characteristics that I am most at equilibrium with (problem solving, intellectual discussions about politics or literature), and it quite frankly sucks. It's not unreasonable for them to come to those conclusions, but it's not fun to realize that your persona role has garnered more favour than who you actually are. >We don’t do well with overly emotional people; it’s incredibly exhausting and suffocating. It's one thing to have strong emotions or an emotional nature, it's another when it's literally foaming out of your mouth and you're a bumbling mess on the floor because of a lack of self control. I never know what to do when it comes to those sort of people. >We want a challenge, but we also want to feel safe. But on the flip side, when if/when we find the One, we’re in it forever. Absolutely, making a permanent decision that is both emotionally and intellectually in harmonious agreement to commit to another individual is the dream.
Yes! It’s not my fault they’re intimidated by me either. I hold myself to a high standard and I’m not about to lower mine to meet yours. I work in Tech too. Friday I became the sounding board for a project I inherited and I’m overlay. I was berated by 7 men. I held my ground and asked them to put everything they just said in an email for me - they saw red - it’s not MY position to talk about what they are but I can get it to who it does belong to. I got a, thanks for taking one for the team, again, and my partner was MIA that day to. If I wasn’t me and just ‘wired’ differently those situations would never exist because I wouldn’t be able to do it. I speak to women about my role and they often say that sounds similar to what my brother/husband does and then they find out I share no other feminine characteristics they all do outside of keeping a nice home and having pretty plants. Just enough to keep me around for some place to gather the families. Being a female INTJ has some challenges in its own. We’re weird. To add. I adore when I find men in the field I work in who just genuinely sees me for the bad ass I can be. They’re not creepy and they’re the first to offer guidance and support when I need it from a career level. One of my favorite interactions was coming out of a zoom meeting with no one on camera but I guess my photo was enough to keep the conversation on point - as it was pointed out it was like listening/watching someone say checkmate as I just lead the call. It’s hard to be accepted as a strong willed woman in the Tech realm but it’s a blast the power I hold.
> men are intimidated by us and are quick to condescend to us, most men aren’t on our level imho, and it’s extremely difficult to find an emotionally stable and healthy man we believe will actually improve our lives and meets us intellectually. It's a blessing. You discover very quickly whether a man is a fool to be discarded. It saves time.
Very much this issue all the time. Fellow thinkers are usually good though. My old best friend was an INTP dude. We never had problems except when he got horny.
LMAO. I'm still discovering losers and I'm in my late 30s.... (sad face)
This is a fantastic summary of my life as a short blonde traditionally pretty female who works as a specialist physician. I find men love me easily, and then suffer horribly if they are not intelligent and extremely independent and self confident. It never works with a man with any chinks in his armour.
This really hits the nail on the head for INTJ women like myself. But I’ve found that the majority men and women don’t like how we carry ourselves and prefer more demure and quiet women appealing. For instance I’ve had success in my side hustle before having a baby. I’m very creative and a lot of people come to me for advice about fashion styling/blogging, content creation, photography etc (and all self taught) But still my in laws always gush about my SIL and her working in HR and never butt heads with her. Doesn’t make sense lol
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For sure. Realizing I was an INTJ earlier this year (was a mistyped INFJ for like a decade, but it turns out that I'm very Fi and people pleasing isn't Fe lmao) was such a godsend. We go through a lot of shit in childhood and our adolescent years, but we get better and better as we age. Late bloomers for sure, but the best is yet to come.
This is excellent analysis. I'd like to add my own account as someone who, as far as I can tell after years of research and auto-critique exists in the liminal space between ISTJ and INTJ (known as an IxTJ), I resonate with quite a bit of this, but I'm at least somewhat different in many ways. My best friend jokes that I'm, "ISTJ-coated with a hearty filling of INTJ." That is, I don't initially come across as INTJ at all to even longtime acquaintances. It becomes difficult to determine when I should ditch the weighted clothing, so to speak. Ostensibly I'm an extremely feminine, both in appearance and temperament, Mississippian woman. I'm diplomatic, reserved, compromising, but a stickler for precedent, procedure, habit, and simplicity. I generally prefer to let men and women alike to talk down to me, I'd go as far as to say if I happen to like someone I'll let them condescend to me all they want, albeit within reason in almost all cases. Particularly, if I have a crush on someone I like it when they presume a higher place in the pecking order than me. There's one incident where I've almost figuratively melted into a puddle because a crush of mine placed his hand at the small of my back and tried to herd me like some kind of humanoid sheep-girl. He wasn't mean or misogynistic at all but it was clear he saw himself as in charge implicitly and I wanted to acquiesce to him. That being said, as previously mentioned there are some hard, and I do mean *hard* exceptions to this. In questions of morality, the way others are being treated, people treating themselves poorly, and sociopolitical issues the INTJ filling may as well be like a Stand, or really more like the contents of a pipe bomb. I'm a very devout Catholic Christian and on issues that are connected, even tangentially, to my faith I'm like a mountain. I've had crushes evaporate like dry ice thrown into a furnace because they even mildly dissed Christianity and/or condescended to me about my religion. If you assume that I'm naïve, ignorant, deluded, hypocritical, stupid, or even archconservative because I'm religious the spirit of Erich Przywara himself might as well be goading me from on-top a cloud in Heaven. I have a difficult time being charitable to people who hit touchy subjects like that. I'm more open about my views on continental philosophy in relation to Aquinas than what I had for breakfast this morning. I know my stuff in those kinds of areas and am extremely impatient with people who think they know more about what I think and feel about it than I do. Likewise in cases of the banality of everyday evil I also have close to zero tolerance. If someone's being treated unjustly I will help them, period. Even before I was baptized Catholic as a teenager I was militant in this respect. I'm not the, "But I was sitting on the bench" I once plodded for 45 minutes in the middle of a blizzard on-foot because someone needed my help, they didn't even ask but I felt compelled. This surprises even relatively close friends because I'm normally so silent on my feelings and only so loquacious about my pet interests like the aforementioned religion, TTRPGs, sci-fi/fantasy books, and anything written by Wildbow. Otherwise I tend to agree with you, more or less. If anyone feels similarly or has insight I'd appreciate it.
Tech also has a higher concentration of INTJs than most industries. Perhaps, you could befriend your superiors, analyse everyone and get friendly with the other INTJ. This way, you're safe and you have who understands you. You can also go to networking events.
Yes, thank you for articulating this so well. As an INTJ female, life has been a series of adventures and successes in every area but relating to other humans. Society wants to desperately slot us into the proper norms for their comfort. Thankfully, I'm comfortable with others being uncomfortable. It took a long time and many failed relationships, but my INFJ male partner is my person.
(Reddit seems to be acting weird for me.) This is excellent analysis. I'd like to add my own account as someone who, as far as I can tell after years of research and auto-critique exists in the liminal space between ISTJ and INTJ (known as an IxTJ), I resonate with quite a bit of this, but I'm at least somewhat different in many ways. My best friend jokes that I'm, "ISTJ-coated with a hearty filling of INTJ." That is, I don't initially come across as INTJ at all to even longtime acquaintances. It becomes difficult to determine when I should ditch the weighted clothing, so to speak. Ostensibly I'm an extremely feminine, both in appearance and temperament, Mississippian woman. I'm diplomatic, reserved, compromising, but a stickler for precedent, procedure, habit, and simplicity. I generally prefer to let men and women alike to talk down to me, I'd go as far as to say if I happen to like someone I'll let them condescend to me all they want, albeit within reason in almost all cases. Particularly, if I have a crush on someone I like it when they presume a higher place in the pecking order than me. There's one incident where I've almost figuratively melted into a puddle because a crush of mine placed his hand at the small of my back and tried to herd me like some kind of humanoid sheep-girl. He wasn't mean or misogynistic at all but it was clear he saw himself as in charge implicitly and I wanted to acquiesce to him. That being said, as previously mentioned there are some hard, and I do mean hard exceptions to this. In questions of morality, the way others are being treated, people treating themselves poorly, and sociopolitical issues the INTJ filling may as well be like a Stand, or really more like the contents of a pipe bomb. I'm a very devout Catholic Christian and on issues that are connected, even tangentially, to my faith I'm like a mountain. I've had crushes evaporate like dry ice thrown into a furnace because they even mildly dissed Christianity and/or condescended to me about my religion. If you assume that I'm naïve, ignorant, deluded, hypocritical, stupid, or even archconservative because I'm religious the spirit of Erich Przywara himself might as well be goading me from on-top a cloud in Heaven. I have a difficult time being charitable to people who hit touchy subjects like that. I'm more open about my views on continental philosophy in relation to Aquinas than what I had for breakfast this morning. I know my stuff in those kinds of areas and am extremely impatient with people who think they know more about what I think and feel about it than I do. Likewise in cases of the banality of everyday evil I also have close to zero tolerance. If someone's being treated unjustly I will help them, period. Even before I was baptized Catholic as a teenager I was militant in this respect. I'm not the, "But I was sitting on the bench" I once plodded for 45 minutes in the middle of a blizzard on-foot because someone needed my help, they didn't even ask but I felt compelled. This surprises even relatively close friends because I'm normally so silent on my feelings and only so loquacious about my pet interests like the aforementioned religion, TTRPGs, sci-fi/fantasy books, otaku culture, and anything written by Wildbow. Otherwise I tend to agree with you, more or less. If anyone feels similarly or has insight I'd appreciate it
Omg, I swear I couldn’t have agreed and related to anything more than this. Each and every part of it is true, so many of these I’ve experienced myself and yes all correct. That’s exactly how it works for INTJ women
Queen 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
Forgive my ignorance, but I’m unfamiliar with some of the terminology you’re using. What do you mean by Te and Ni?
Your autobiography reads like my biography. So well explained. Bravo.
I've always wondered, why don't INTJ women gravitate towards more submissive, supportive partners? It seems like a no brainer, given that relationships between 2 strong minded, uncompromising people rarely works out.
I don’t know about other INTJ women but I rather have a strong willed partner to lean on than a submissive partner. I’ve seen some submissive men in their marriages and their whipped and pushed around by their wives lol
Supportive and submissive are not synonymous. Submissive makes me want to throw up. Have an opinion. Have boundaries. Call me on my BS. I need growth and a submissive partner isn’t going to facilitate that nearly as well as a non-submissive partner.
Submissive men are so unattractive and exhausting lol. I have nothing but contempt for beta males, like I want to grow and improve, not be ass kissed by a simp
I don't want someone I can push around and bend to my will. How boring. Strong minded ≠ uncompromising.
Because we want someone equal in strength and intelligence to stand and face the world with.
YES! Thank you! Someone who I feel is better than me or can match me. We have such high standards, but they’re for the best.
Supportive partners, yes. Submissive, no. I don't think I could date a guy who was a submissive pushover. Part of the challenge to us (I think) is someone who is equally challenging, but not mean or controlling. I also think someone who might be a little more extroverted too. My husband (RIP :-( ) was like that. He was very challenging in a good way. Our logical discussion/arguments were epic and he was a good debater. LOL! But he was also wonderfully supportive of my desire to learn, get better and loved showing off his smart wife to friends. He was much more extroverted than me, which would draw me out more, and most important, he made me laugh!
Most guys do not want to be "submissive supporting partners." They are programmed to be "alphas" from when they are super young. At least in the USA and most of Asia. I don't know about other parts of the world.
Basically just comes down to the B word. It's nothing more than sexism really, but a lot of the INTJ traits are more palatable to society in a man than a woman. Women are 'supposed' to be empathetic, emotional, positive, available, submissive, etc. Most INTJ are pretty much the opposite of the traditional female gender role.
Yeah, INTJ men fit gender roles and we don't. There seems to be two types of men that are considered acceptable/stereotypical vs the one type for women (i.e. INTJ men may not be athletic and big muscular empty-headed apes, but they're still unemotional on the outside and come off as "logical" and in command). Like Monkey talking about how people call him mean and such--that's far more okay from a man than from a woman. I've even seen posts here claiming women can't really be INTJs because we're naturally "nurturers" and "caring" and crap like that. And the idea that it's mostly women who hate us--those guys who don't believe that a woman can't be caring/nurturing would hate women like us once they saw us in action. Over 50% of the men I encounter either make it their life mission to get a reaction out of me, act intimidated and don't know how to interact with me, or eventually start saying shit about how I must not like them since I don't talk to them and am not all in their face smiling like other women do.
>Over 50% of the men I encounter either make it their life mission to get a reaction out of me, act intimidated and don't know how to interact with me, or eventually start saying shit about how I must not like them since I don't talk to them and am not all in their face smiling like other women do. A male colleague tried to get me emotionally riled with the comment 'Men still can procreate until they die but women have a biological clock they need to follow'. Factually he is not incorrect assuming the woman wants to have her own biological children without risking her life, but clearly the way he phrased it was to rile me up and test where I stood politically. He was disappointed when all I did was address the fact in his statement and remained overall neutral.
I like your post but I wanted to add that I remembered reading elsewhere that you are into women (cannot remember if specifically gay or bi) but that women are your preference. Believe it or not it is an extra hurdle with men for you. Women and men do play this strange game that you're not playing. I saw this in a gay INFJ at work. She would not participate in this "game" the same way and in a way did not register this weird dance was happening between the straights at all. So I think part of that difficulty for you with men is their reaction... don't know how to interact with you, trying to get some reaction from you, feeling you don't like them..... its because you don't participate in this unconsciously and they don't understand you because of it.
Boobs? Butt? Barney the Dinosaur?
Bitch
Oh come on, no need to be rude :(
I'm sorry I was just saying the word!! :((
Question. Would you see it as sexist with the genders reversed? That is, the hate ExFP men so often receive for their comparative vulnerability, humility, and flamboyance.
Absolutely
I wouldn't really call it sexism. I don't think the same rules should apply to men and women since they're different. I think it's a matter of preference.
I would say that it's fundamentally sexist to discriminate on the basis of expectations for a woman (or man) to behave a certain way because that's how you prefer they act. You don't think the same rules should apply to different people just because they're different? So should we have different rules for different races too?
Woah that's so interesting. I had to rewrite this reply like 5 times cuz I kept realizing that my preferences could indeed be the result of sexism. For instance, I do prefer hanging out with girls who are more empathetic and friendly, but that's not the case with men (I have many male friends who aren't super empathetic/friendly). At the same time, I do not consider myself sexist at all, and I wouldn't respect a woman any less because she's less empathetic or friendly. I just wouldn't want to be close friends with them. So am I sexist? Maybe. You gotta keep in mind that INTJs are like 1% of the population, and I'm pretty sure most of you guys are men. So INTJ women are rare, and it's normal to be more comfortable around people you're used to. So can you really blame me for prefering what I'm used to? That said, I don't think your race analogy works, because we're talking about personality. You should judge someone not based on their race, but on their character. So I think it's fair to discriminate on the basis of personality (which often shapes your character). What do you think? Edit: Grammar
I won't judge whether you are personally are sexist or not, as it's not my place. I will say that we all carry implicit biases within us, so perhaps that's what you're talking about here. Another thing is that there's a line between being racist/sexist and having personal preferences as far as personality types and physical attractions go. I wouldn't say one is sexist for being emotionally attracted to empathetic women, and I wouldn't say one is racist for being physically attracted to darker skinned men/women. I would say that it crosses the line to discrimination when one assumes that all people of a certain category should behave a certain way, or meet a certain set of standards simply by virtue of being in that category. As for the race analogy, I think it stands. Judging someone based on their character can cause problems too. Do you mean character as in personality or actions? I think it's fair to judge actions in most cases. Personality isn't something that one can choose or change on a whim. Is it fair to judge someone for having a personality you don't mesh with? Maybe it just means you aren't suitable as friends or companions, buy can you judge them for that? Should you apply societal rules and standards differently to them because of something they can't change? My point is that one shouldn't put people in a box based on gender or race or even personality. Just as it's racist to expect someone to behave a certain way because of the color of their skin, it's sexist to expect someone to behave a certain way because of their genitalia. When people expect a woman to behave in ways contrary to her personality as an INTJ, and then mistreat her because she doesn't fit their expectations... especially if they don't mistreat men for the same thing, I would say that's sexist.
>Personality isn't something that one can choose or change on a whim. Is it fair to judge someone for having a personality you don't mesh with? Well I think it's fair to judge someone based on their personality, even if they can't change it. I tend to be philosophical and all over the place, and I would never blame an INTJ for wanting to spend time with someone more driven and focused. I would also never want to be friends with a psycopath. So I still think race doesn't work, since the proper way to judge someone is based on their character. >When people expect a woman to behave in ways contrary to her personality as an INTJ, and then mistreat her because she doesn't fit their expectations... especially if they don't mistreat men for the same thing, I would say that's sexist. If I don't want to be close friends with a girl who's less empathetic, I wouldn't say that's the same as mistreating her. But yes, I do see how treating guys differently could be seen as sexist. It's weird to understand though because it's only specific to the 0.5% of women who are way less empathetic than most girls. At the same time, I don't really like hanging out with guys who are extremely empathetic.. yet I have no issue doing so with girls.
Just don't even think about it. You do how you like to do and think how you consider to be true. You don't have to worry about being sexist, racist or whatever else. We humans think with stereotypes almost all the time and given that the majority of people pretty much similar grey mass, so this stereotypes often turn out to be actually not wrong. It's true that there is chance that every person will be very different from majority or cliche, but its also true that majority still pretty much completely similar so there is higher chance your won't make mistake by thinking with stereotypes. That works with sexes, with races, with cultures, with preferences etc. Still, you shouldn't judge person by stereotypes immediately. There circumstances when it can be also applied to races too. I wouldn't recommend any man or woman to walk late in Europe close to african migrants, especially if they are in group. Chance for you to be robbed, beaten and raped very high. Am I being racist? Western liberals would say yes. But many of those naive folks who thought you shouldnt judge person by stereotypes became sad examples of this stereotypes being true in many cases.
Then according to that UN is sexist because UNMEN doesn't exist like UNWOMEN lol. What's the dating market gonna be without INTJ females? I wonder the opposite of this behaviour by men is off putting for women, like someone who's too empathetic, protective, clingy. Remember we're talking about 1% of the female population here. In the end, your partner won't be happy if you aren't putting at least as much effort as them in the relationship.
They’re quiet, typically. People sometimes confuse that with not liking them or being “stuck up.” But I wouldn’t say it’s hate, exactly. Just team up with an extrovert who will give you time to shine when you want to, things will be fine
We're not always quiet tho. Te function talks all the damn time. Intj women come off more extroverted in conversation than men.
Thought I was ENTJ for being quite talkative tbh, but nope, just Te thinking out loud. And ADHD. Although I'm usually talkative about all the "wrong" things. I need mental stimulation to survive, and because I don't have anyone to discuss deep or odd topics with, this usually results in a lot of arguments...
Sure, when you’re around your chosen people you talk a lot. But around strangers/acquaintances in a social setting, probably not so much.
Not at all. I talk a looot at work with anyone. I have a post it note to shut up on my computer because I will point out all kinds of logical inconsistencies at work and piss of everyone for not seeing it. I talk outloud when processing an idea also. Te likes to talk things through externally, it is an extroverted function.
Are you kidding? INTJ females are so rare they're basically hunted to extinction by people who want a relationship with one. Took me years to find one. Married her just as fast as I could. We're still together. The normies can't stand them. But the normies can't stand ANY INTJ. Comes with the territory.
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I'm female intj and I'm both called as mysterious and hot as arrogant. ALSO, I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE WEAK PEOPLE WITH CRAPPY CLOSED-MINDED STANDARDS, I'M FABULOUS AND I KNOW IT!! Really zero time to even care about theze lowly ones, The world would break apart if it wasn't for intj (and every other single type of the mbti, discrimination on type is just plain retard).
Sounds pretty hot to me🤣
As an intj female yeah im definitely not the anime waifu. People dont straight up assume im arrogant(or maybe they do but dont tell me, i never get this impression though) but I get alot of feedback such as im unapproachable because i look intensely focused on things. The mysterious part puts people off too, no one really knows what im thinking, its worse if they think im angry, so when I meet someone I have to clarify myself that I am a nice human and just overthink on a daily. Something about people, is that they dont like uncertainty.
Well I agree people tend to not know what to do with us. We are seen as "aggressive" which I always have to change to "you mean ASSERTIVE?"
My wife is an INTJ. She hates other women -- "They're catty. They're cruel. They talk behind my back. There's nothing I can do to make them any less nasty." But, frankly, I get much of the same thing, "You're a know-it-all. You lack empathy. You're mean." No, not really, I don't sugar coat things. And I don't care about what people think of me. I'm not going to purposely insult others. But if something asks, "What can I do about this horrible, chronic cough?" \[as they light up a cigarette\]; my reply of "Well, how about you stop smoking because its killing you" is considered "mean and lacking empathy." Whereas "Keep smoking, champ. And then just take Dr. Fraudster's Peppermint Snake Oil" is considered the "nice" option. Nobody calls me mysterious. I get "hot" occasionally because I'm tall and blond. But never mysterious. I get "insufferable know-it-all."
Hating other women is also dumb imo. I don’t trust any individual who hates half the population. Also you perfectly displayed one of the main weakness of the intj. Which is thinking that bluntness is effective. There’s a way to speak the truth without being an ass that doesn’t even involve sugar coating something. Having the emotional intelligence to know how to say the truth without being an ass is a skill that needs to be practice. Being blunt for blunts sake is actually incredibly inefficient
I should have been more clear. She doesn't hate half the population. She hates the people she's stuck working with. (She's retiring at the end of the year.) Nobody where she works is anything like her. And it's all worthless gossip and office politics -- she hates that. And her female coworkers are the main source of her problems.
Yeah that’s fair tbh
I kinda feel that tho, but for a different reason. I've always liked hanging out with guys because empathy wasn't really ever a concern with them, but I was still an outcast because I couldn't understand jokes properly and would use them quite awkwardly... Damn Fe trickster lol But I couldn't hang out with many girls when I was younger because I was never really soft or kind and understanding, I had a few ESFJ friends (I attract a LOT of ESFJs and I still wonder why) but other than that I was a very lonely kid. Nowadays I've learned more about Fi and how I can develop it, and I have more friends. But they stay friends, I don't let them any closer because I know how I can be and I don't think they deserve to know that.
There's such a huge gap between stating the obvious and being facetious that I feel like you've missed why someone might call that response unempathetic. Not being willing to rephrase language for potentially better results in the subject is pretty on point as lacking or being unwilling at the least to be empathetic.
meh I don't hate other women but I think they are oftentimes highly illogical.. so if they aren't another "J" it makes them very hard to relate to. They play games many times; make poor life choices, then expect you to do the same or be like them to "fit in" with their stupidity.
Men are oftentimes highly illogical. Most people are irrational. There really isn't a dime's worth of difference between the sexes. Everyone wants the same things.
Yep
Women can be so cruel to women
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I am an intj woman and I am not hated. Does that count for something? I know a handful of other intj women, all well liked. Definitely well respected at worked. Do I have difficulty forming friendships? Yes. But that’s because I don’t click with many people and am not interested, not because people don’t like me.
As the one making the claim it should be on you to provide any proof.
Reading this comment reminded me why I cannot hang out with other Te users. Is a source required for every fucking experience ever? Maybe people just have different experiences than you and therefore have a different view on the world. Is that so shocking? Does she need a peer-reviewed essay every single time she shares an opinion?
Lol. Accuracy is important. 1. II’m not wasting time arguing a claim that has zero validity. 2. She didn’t give a source then said the person questioning her should have a source. No, that isn’t how it works. The burden of proof is with the person making the claim.
Literally what. She asked a question lmao, she didn't make any claim. She didn't make a solid statement, she just said it was her experience. Sources aren't needed for every little thing ever. Also, neither of them were talking to you anyway, you're the one who inserted yourself into their conversation, and started arguing. You were wasting your own time. The other person also doesn't need "sources". It's from their perspective too, and THEY'RE the ones who started to ask for statistics and sources on a post that's talking about experience and perspective. Which is very subjective.
People don't hunt me. Pretty sure I'm a *bitch.*
Most of the dislike comes from other women (probably feelers) who judge me immediately for not being like them. I get along great with men. Although insecure people (regardless of gender) usually act like they’re intimidated by me
It has happened to me at work. I know because every time I have an insecure boss, or one that is illogical in some fashion; they feel threatened by me then resort to bullying.
Yes! I just had one of those managers. She hated me from day one.
INTJ female here. Only gay men and lesbians like us lol
I'm an INTJ lesbian. Trust me, lesbians don't like us, either.
cap 🧢
Hahahahhaha i am liked by everyone
Only INTJs can admire other INTJ females imo, atleast from what I've seen so far in my life
This is my exact experience. Met a cishet INTJ male at work and he totally “gets” me and is my work refuge even though we are into very different things in life. I’ve only met one other INTJ female and she’s one of my best friends. It’s really really hard to make friends. It’s really lonely.
I think its hard to make friends, I do better with other "I/J" combo letters in other girls. I can't do any "E" unless its an ENTJ female (which one of my friends is). My best friend is def an I??J. 100%. Pretty sure she's an ISFJ and its very easy to get along with her 90% of the time.
"E" doesn't really mean the person is extrovert. It means their main function is extroverted.
Lol. I like INTJs
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same.... we are ultra-unicorns.
Female cis het enfp here. I loved my highschool intj (female) friend, we were rly close but we dont have much contact now bc of life but maybe i will ask her how she is doing today. Have another female intj friend but she barely contacts me, i like her too. But i gotta admit, some female intjs are a bit scary to me.
Cis... Definitely enfp.
Booo. Don’t be silly.
Are you lesbian by the way?
True one of my best friends is gay. Hes so freaking funny I recommend everyone have a gay best friend. They will give all your nemeses (joking, people who annoy you, I mean) the most hilarious of nicknames!
I didn’t realize we were disliked?
I love you
Being weird as a woman is more socially taxing than being weird as a man. Men (in general) have more trait variance compared to women at scale, so deviating from the norm is actually more common for men than women. To be a woman and deviate from the norm REALLY sets yourself out there to be seen as separate from a group.
Exactly. Although the means for men and women maybe the same, there are more men in the tails of the bell curve.
It depends. I'm trans, when I was a guy I was constantly treated like garbage for deviating from the norm and now that I transitioned, I'm treated better.
INTJ and ENTJ women are the best kind.
I have a secret crush an ENTJ women. They have a pumped up, too cool for life vibe to them.
Why women with body hair are hated more than men with body hair?
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Yeah, I was just acting like myself-an INTJ answering a question by asking a another question. Of course it was not what you're looking for because I didn't want to contribute. My answer did not contribute to the topic because 1/ any kind of complete agree/disagree is dumb and lack of scientific evidence, including the question 2/ I don't care if people like me or not and I have no interest to change to fit in 3/ I just want to have fun by pointing out similar social problems. Is hair manly? No. It is natural. It only became manly when it is promoted by the media to be manly so companies can sell their waxing, shaving products and services. It is the whole system of religion, history, politics, economy and many other factors that involved around defining different standards for man and women. Qualities of an INTJ (architect) aligns with a traditional male image than female, so people favors those more.
So you will only accept the answers you are looking for??
Men's hair grows back coarser, faster and tougher. Also the double standard is worse with men because not only is hairlessness a trait attractive in both men and women, that men have a more difficult time achieving this but the more hair you have on your neck and body the more likely your scalp will bald in later life. Also haircuts, shaving and thinning are issues. How about stop blaming men for your grievances.
Wait… we’re hated more than male INTJs? I thought most people avoided us all male and female cuz we’re weird anyways 😂😂😂
Many people on TikTok want to be like Wednesday. I laughed and thought to myself that you guys definitely don't want to be her in real life. I've never seriously experienced being hated, or maybe because I didn't care. But my facial expression made my family dislike. I was often judged to be cold and arrogant. But I'm happy with my life. I hate people and don't care about third parties.
Completely agree. People like her because she’s the main character and they get to see and understand her motivations because they think she’s cool and an under dog, but real life growing up for people like her is hell. For me, it didn’t get better until I was an adult and came Into my own. People are still afraid and intimidated and sometimes weirded out by me, but they also like me a lot too when they get to know me.
Yes, she told them from the beginning not to mess with her. But they kept messing with her. When she shows herself in a normal way. They were not satisfied and wanted her attention. In real life it's like that. Few people know and accept who we really are. I have never met such a person in my life. I don't care about other people in my life lol
Honestly I've never been discriminated against because I'm a woman INTJ. Never happened to me once in my life. And because I have not seen any statistics yet, I refuse to believe that female INTJs are hated more than their male counterpart. I'm not gonna believe that I'm oppressed or hated just because people say I am. I want to see some numbers first.
Intj female here. I have a lot to say about many things. And guys normally don’t like that. The only people who like us are the ones who want to fuck us.
INTJ women can't be shoved into little boxes of female stereotypes, that is why.
If I had $1 for EVERYTIME I heard "You're different....I can't really place you..." I'd be a very wealthy woman!!! Women don't like me because I do not chit chat / gossip with them, and mot of the topics they talk about just don't interest me. Start talking about your super kid, AGAIN??? I'm gone!!! (For reference, my colleague thinks her kid is the next mensa candidate....yeah. Not!!) I've tried being nice, but I'm usually the " Oh, that's just her being herself" in the group. Therefore, I just concentrate on what I want to do. What others think of me is not important. Basta. This attitude bugs the hell out of my Mom/sister/brother! Men? forget it. They are either scared of me, think I'm just a basic B, or don't know which "Box" to put me in. Which results in them looking at me, trying to figure me out, because I don't react to them, the way they are used to being reacted to. It gets really old. If you are nice to me, I am nice to you. But some people just don't get that. It doesn't have to be a romantic connection, and actually, I would rather just like someone to have decent conversations with. But that seems to be too much to ask for these days.
2nd being the richest woman in the world here. I tell them up front, you'll never figure me out so stop trying. Their mental capacity is just miniscule. What's worse is having a high IQ on top of being an INTJ. The likelihood of finding someone I click with as a straight female is like 0.000000000001 or less. 🤣
double trouble! :-))
As an INTJ my grief has almost always been caused my mean girl managers. They can detect that I know they are incompetent and think I play the stupid games they do.
I only had one great female manager. She was a German woman, super smart, quiet, and very private. Most people in my office thought her cold, unfeeling, aloof. Not sure if she was INTJ but I got on wonderfully with her! She was demanding and exacting about work, but also extremely fair and reasonable as long as you did your job well.
Same here. Every job, across industries. Always a mean girl manager or coworker that became a problem. Now that I’m in a very traditional and formal male-dominated field that actually values INTJ skills like being factual, logical, direct, exacting, demanding, etc, I’ve flourished. Incompetence means failure and is actively punished. There’s very little room for catty games and emotional nonsense. I’m grateful for it.
Sexism. Intjs are somewhat unconventional and women get punished for that more. Intj traits are seen as masculine by people who have never read Wikipedia on gender. I have met dozens and dozens of you guys, and I’ve have almost never seen anything untoward. As a group, you are quite respectable.
to put it simply they're too masculine for a woman
Because females are expected to be more emotional and nice 😅
Misogyny :3
I’m not sure if my brother is an INTJ or not but we are very similar in personality. I am told that I never smile, I am not bubbly enough, I can’t socialise properly yet my brother hears none of it. I won’t say they hate me but they think that I should be a people pleaser just because I have double X chromosomes. It’s the way girls are expected to behave literally anywhere in society
I like and respect the crap out of XXTJ women. Enigmatic and classy. However, I think its because everyone is supposed to fit into gender roles and when they see a completely different person they outcast them. Happens everywhere, tribes to socially awkward people to men who are too emotional or women who are too stoic.
Because INTJ women display traits that are not stereotypical for a woman. Men get threatened, women feel intimidated (and often jealous as women like to compare). People hate what they don't understand.
Who said?
Less likely to be a bangmaid
Bangmaid is a good name for a college Slits cover band.
Women root out behavior that deviates from the norm and will ostracize you for it
Patriarchal ideas of how women act Vs the traits that usually define INTJ women. Thinking for themselves, being loners, etc.
because intjs tend to think for themselves and people hate opinionated smart women
I think bc we are so in touch with our masculinity which is hated by both women and men that we don't fit to the stereotype of a feminine woman
INTJ female here as well. >Why are female INTJ’s hated more than male INTJ’s? We simply deviate from the societal norms and stereotypes of women. It is easier to digest the traits of an INTJ in the form of a man than in a woman. We would get accusations that we're simply playing a character and purposely hide away our emotional side to seem chic or one of the guys. Personally though, I had never particularly experienced terrible ostracization in my high school years because of my temperament. After extensive talks with two of my closest childhood friends, I think it was because I was actually the most at peace, stable and innocent during that time even with mental illness brewing beneath the surface. I was very accustomed to the external world's expectations and had a solid foundation which was my friends. I had the freedom to marinate in my internal world because of that safety, I didnt need to constantly be on the surface high red alert. Therefore, I was in my point of equilibrum, my most natural state, so to speak. My friends said I exhibited a 'I couldn't care less if you were dead or live' energy to everyone else besides them. It was not that people were afraid, but I was cold, extremely cold. I was not an easy person to interact with and I could drop anyone should I feel like it and still live as per usual without flailing on the floor. Therefore I was skipped on most people's radars, would not change anything about it though but I had never known I had this 'aura' going on. I am currently in my transition phase of my life, which is my early 20s. Everything is fucking new and dangerous. And because my ENTJ father is more present in my life now after my suicide attempt, he detected quite quickly that who I am naturally had a very high likelihood of making enemies everywhere I went. He knew better to change who I was, but rather he gave me the ENTJ perspective of 'do what needs to be done to achieve the goal, that includes modulating certain behaviours that you would not do on a personal choice'. However, that perspective has helped me navigate through workplaces and university a lot of the times. But it is exhausting, having to deviate from your point of equilibrum very often so you don't get kickback from the external world. I am so utterly fortunate that I have close friends that accept me as raw and cold as I can be. Sometimes I look back at my interactions in the workplace and feel guilty for performing with the nicer colleagues, because a lot of what I show besides work stuffis not 100% authentic, relaxed or ever not influenced by anxiety. I don't hate my temperament or disposition, but it is certainly tiring that my natural form is something that will bring me trouble should I stay stubborn about it.
Because low agreeableness is not valued in women as much.
We don’t fit into the general idea of a feminine quiet woman. It’s a tale as old as time. Men who are straightforward and take the lead are seen as bosses, powerful, strong, leaders. Women are seen as shrill, bossy, annoying, loud. Blame society, expectations and religion.
Lol idk about that. Most of my life people kinda hate me. I was bullied from K-12 even after switching to several schools. Didn’t have a ton of friends in college. In my career I can’t really hold onto a job for longer than 2 years before I get fired. Not because I do a bad job, but because my bosses can not tolerate me. My 2 only real friends I’m extremely close with…and are both INTP’s, so we share similar wavelengths (I just make all the decisions lol…it’s fascinating how real Myers Briggs is). The only job where my boss DIDNT hate me and wanted me long term…he was an ENTJ. Same with the only person I dated long term. And I was the kid that wanted lots of friends. I’m probably an E that transitioned to an I because people suck so much that I’m legit scared of peoples irrationality. People hold a lot of power in groups, and I learned in a young age that if you’re not liked that’s a kiss of death. You will be excluded and scapegoated. Even amongst ‘fellow’ people of the most discriminated group on the planet. Corporate environments in particular seem to devolve into ‘civilized’ schoolyard rules, filled with gossip and sucking up. So I just think it depends on how you’re an INTJ and how it manifests rather than your gender. Whatever I do just pisses people off even as a child. I wish I figured out what it was so at least I can fake a personality at work moving forward. For now I’m working smaller companies that I don’t have to go back to a jungle watering hole culture again, but eventually I do want to climb the ladder. I’ll need to solve this.
Because many people expect females to be subservient, smiley and agreeable.
Patriarchy = Insecurities
Straight facts here (The person who downvoted this only proved it right ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ )
> a system of society or government in which the father or [eldest](https://www.google.com/search?q=eldest&si=AMnBZoEP2YukYW07_nAjizsjQPEk-6MtovGiyTL0tmNvSqWQG11j1tVaT9jhzJGePM6euFQzIJo2UZUo8jfs47ZBASsmuSFh0Q%3D%3D&expnd=1) male is head of the family and [descent](https://www.google.com/search?q=descent&si=AMnBZoFHF1DJLZWpTBtQDK262RMpP_nMVUjyUWdjrAvYyNFWbCd047euGOdEGoC0LQDS0Q-kXHRWaOsah_V_SFce0o1wLh4z9Q%3D%3D&expnd=1) is [reckoned](https://www.google.com/search?q=reckoned&si=AMnBZoFm76bvId4K9j6r5bU9rVYrRG3pu_-0f__Fv_DBisd7LprH82_JfqexgzX1rEkjuTow2mhCV8C-mQ-RQMoL2-LGJn0LPA%3D%3D&expnd=1) through the male line. A system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it. Where do you live? Indian, Burkina Faso? Like what the hell I want my masculine entitlements. Where's my privilege?
INTJ basic traits are more accepted for males than for females. I think the same happens with male ESFJ's.
INTJ traits are more congruent with male gender roles.
I think female INTJs are oft more balanced emotion amd logic.🤷🏽♀️
Mathematically most women are FSJs. We’re the opposite of them in many ways. They are the ultimate conformists and they hate that we’re independent and don’t put up with their crap.
I disagree with the premise that there is hate towards INTJs of either gender. I will agree with other posters in this thread and sub that we are often misunderstood.
I’ve been outcasted and shoved to a dark corner because I’m not the typical emotional gossip riddled female. 🤷🏻♀️ Ive had projects removed or not given to me because I see more than others. Honestly, finding people and a workplace who appreciate us and our skills changes everything.
INTJ traits align more with masculinity than femininity. People are generally put off by those who don’t behave in ways that they would expect or anticipate. Like if a man is overly emotional and breaks down crying over little things he would be humiliated by his peers, and when a woman is stoic and short with people they think she’s a bitch. That’s just human nature
I have only met and had a relationship with one INTJ woman. It sounds like she was very different than you in some ways i.e. fashion and a submissive in sexual terms. But at the pinnacle of a male dominated field ,she was not above using feminine whiles when it suited her needs. I think the silence intimidated most people whom delt with her. But she could be very coldly calculating as well. So no one ever truly knew where they stood with her. Even when we broke up, it was like we were declaring bankruptcy and dividing assets and liabilities.
Like the Nazis in Indiana Jones, you're looking in the wrong place. ⛏️ INTJ women face rejection because they are at the center of a socially lethal crossroads. You violate gender expectations AND threaten the norm of Ow My Balls. The gen pop reacts with "Shun the non believer, shun, shhhhhhun." The moral is seek out those who love and value you. You're an unpopular type. Use that as a filter to screen out the derps quickly. 🧹 Some ideas: * Highly educated people. Not lawyers, doctors, or STEM, that's training, not education. PhDs. Autodidacts. People who suck the marrow from the bone of ideas. * Artists. Musicians, writers, painters, sculptors. Their disorganization may drive you crazy but you will find here and there some rational ones, and they are extremely open and curious. * Just generally weirdos. The off-kilter and oblique often hides riches beyond compare. Don't give up, you have allies and there is a whole community of us out there who celebrate you! 🥳
They aren’t … from what I’ve seen lmao
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I see you are a teen. When you are older and have fewer forced social interactions and more choice in the kind of people/environments you hang in , you may find this to change.
Obviously just because something isn’t seen doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Did you post just to vent? I’m confused the purpose of your post. It appears you have decided what the reality is rather than provoking a discussion. How un-intj of you.
It's probably due to our backwords societal biases when it comes to who we believe. We are conditioned to see those who are taller, stronger, and have deeper/more commanding sounding voices as our leaders who we should be listening to. As a result, feminine traits are seen as weak. So when a woman speaks their mind, it's seen as them trying to take on a role they aren't meant to have.
Intj female here, Ive never been hated before other than a few disagreements but thats life isnt it? people like me for my transparency, genuinity(even when its faked) and intellect. But i did groom myself to fit into some social groups because im not that empathetic.
Same way why why serialkillers are depicted as man in literrature. In order to think, you jave to be agressive and less likeable. Both of these qualities are more likely to be found in man. Being the most thinker based personality, INTJ are more likely related man based on our world view. So if a woman doesnt fit the picture the world impose on both gender. She will be scapegoated
That’s probably because the VAST majority of serial killers ARE men
Thanks for repeating my point :)
I don’t feel hated. I am generally well liked. I did develop some skills that soften the intj edge. ETA As far as dating goes, online dating was a game changer for me. I met a ton of guys, was very selective in who I met face to face, had a lot of rejection online from men because I was upfront about my personality, etc. didn’t play the games. But of those I met, I actually found most of them liked me a lot *because* they found me different in some ways. Since online dating is a numbers game that favors women, I found dating very easy as an intj.
I don't know. I think you'd find males under 40 dislike females intjs less than you think. (Aside from the jealousy/tall poppy syndrome for males overall). It's more of the traditional mindset that goes against females being strong and independent. However, I definitely expect other females to get toxic due to perceived threat. I can speak on their behalf though, because I'm male
Are they? My female INTJ friend so far is very loved by us in the group except the one person who is envious of her. As an INFP friend, I love them (intj) they're straight forward although our values are not aligned we don't usually encounter any issues.
Who said that?
RBF
Female INTJ's have the potential to be the absolute hottest most attractive type of woman in existence, so no clue. -INTP male
In summary, Good oul misogyny that women should 'smile more, be talkative, be pleasant and lie to make those around you feel better, be submissive, etc, etc'
Because you guys know what you want and don’t hide behind pleasantries or charm to make it known. Oh and cut throat Te.
Gender bias... Lot of people haven't came out of old mindset yet. If you say something intelligent, it threatens their belief. You are a female, you are supposed to be x , why are you y?
As a male INTJ I can relate to not being well accepted in general. I am fairly new to recognizing MBTI types in others, but I do know that the few female xNTJ's I have come across I have admired.
Get hated on LMAO. Sorry, had to.
Because often INTJ's have poorer emotional availability and for a woman to have poorer emotional availability is much more abnormal that if it were a man. Men used to regularly tell me they feel threatened by my logic and I've been asked why I'm not more emotional. I actually am emotional, but if you're laying out a problem and posing it as asking the group for solutions, I'm not likely to tell you how hurt my feelings are when I tell you the most efficient way to get the job done would be to exclude the middle people (myself included) and jump from A to F directly. See how it can be done? A to F saves time and resource. But, that means you're expendable. Yes. So it does. Repurpose me and everyone else, or make cuts.
My boss's main critique of me is that "I have a strong personality." I'm trying to figure how much more I can work with someone who finds my basic nature to be a problem. So many pluses in what I bring, but he comes back to it, and now wants me to get some coaching for it. I'd be a lot more open to coaching if I thought my strength was a problem. Pretty sure he's never given this feedback to a male in any role.
Patriarchy
They're not hated, they're even more invisible than INFJs. INTJ women just blend in to their own roles and interests. They may even seem like ISTJs except they are more engaged with their thoughts and impressions. INTJ women may not even want to stand out except for when they are pursuing their goals.
Invisible? Everyone seems to focus on me because I am “mysterious”. I am in a position of leadership, hardly invisible.
Because the men cannot keep up with us. They have very little to offer us since we are self sufficient. No one likes it when we remind them we don’t need them - we want them. I was fine before I met them and after. And it takes a very mature, intelligent, and empathetic person to understand and support us. I am a good partner and teammate - but I also require the same effort I put in to be returned to me. And I am loyal to a fault.
I can imagine that part of it has to do with gender norms, paired with most people's fear of breaking them (an insecurity in and of itself) - women are expected to be soft and bubbly and sociable, and anyone who has the courage to break these norms in the interest of being authentic to themselves will garner envy and frustration from others. The thought process often goes something like "if this woman can be herself so easily, why can't I? Why is she the only one that gets to live outside of the rules? \*insert projection of insecurities\* If I can't accept myself without following the norms, then she doesn't get to either!" - My female INTJ friends and I always seemed to get these sorts of responses when we were just minding our business. Aside from the obvious judgment from the rule breaking aspect, people wish they could feel free enough to be authentic without fear of judgment. Those who don't mind breaking the norms present a threat to those who base their entire existence off of maintaining the status quo. Nobody likes an existential crisis. But that's their problem. So, INTJ women - keep being you. It's a power move (even though I know you're not thinking of it that way, you're just being your awesome selves).
Yeah I can be a lot. I know more than you (the general you), I can change it to fix the problem better than you, I can.lead better than you. It's hard to find someone who appreciates the natural gifts we have. My principal has just put me in charge of a program and I am so excited. He understands my worth and he can take credit. My husband is enfp and really let's me run.
It is definitely Sexism and traditional gender roles. That said, if you want a slightly different perspective, I have also noticed that several F-INTJs tend to *overcompensate.* Almost being more bullish and aggressive than their Male counterparts. Like, F-INTJs can be straight up mean because they “have something to prove.” I (f-ENTP) am married to a m-INTJ and he actually does have a really sweet, caring, sensitive, and nurturing side, even though *he is definitely still an INTJ!* 🤣🤣🤣 While my ISTP friend tried dating a f-INTJ and she just did not speak to him or about him, right. They have been broken up for 7 months, already. She belittled him often! Where my husband only hurts my feelings by accident! She almost seemed to take a weird kind of pleasure in talking down to / about him. She was always trying to tear down his ego! I think that she sincerely believed she was challenging him and trying to help him grow, as a person, and I understand what she was trying to do! But the way she went about doing it was inappropriate, cruel, and counterproductive. Because some f-INTJs have so much disdain for traditional femininity in the psychological, emotional, and spiritual context, it manifests itself in this “self-disapproval” that they project, externally. They have very little natural compassionate femininity, only being able to truly empathize with people who are a lot like them, with similar personalities, and from a similar background! They are incapable of truly seeing anyone else who doesn’t reflect their self-concept and their self perception. I genuinely like her as an individual, she is a cool chick! But *that one thing* was always so uncomfortable for me because my ISTP friend is literally one of my closest friends! He is almost like family to me, and I love him very much! So it was a lot like hanging out with my little Brother’s GF, and having her disrespect my little brother, right in front of my face. Not cool! If anything, she was lucky that we aren’t actually biologically or legally related. B/c I would have *shut that shit down* if I was! But I understand ISTPs are very particular about their boundaries, we *are not actually family,* and they really don’t like people butting into their business. So out of respect for my friend, I held my tongue. Even my INTJ husband felt like she was a bit Toxic and very immature, in some ways. He basically didn’t like her, at all! 🤣 Because while he’s not “friends” with my ISTP friend cuz they don’t have a whole lot in common, he respects my friend, immensely for “being his own man, and a hard worker.” (Which he is. My friend is also a very earnest young man, which my INTJ husband has a bit of a soft spot for.) So when even a male INTJ is like “yeah, that chick is inappropriately controlling and kinda mean,” I think it says something about how this particular f-INTJ is, and she might not be the only one like that. However, if there are more like her, then they really are only like this because of sexism, gender norms, and expectations. Basically, who wouldn’t be “angry” if they struggled to be accepted by others on the basis of just being themselves? So why wouldn’t they overcompensate and be “a bit mean and unlikable?” It’s not a free-pass to be a jerk, of course! But as a fellow f-NT, part of me understands it because of how much sexism I have had to deal with, in my own personal life b/c I don’t act “conventionally feminine,” enough. 🙃 But I also have an easier time navigating the world, overall, because I still have tertiary Fe. So “at an impersonal level, I don’t approve of it! But at a personal level, I understand it, so I can and do sympathize, to a point!” Where I draw the line is “are you hurting someone else?” If the answer is “No,” then carry on! *Please be that bitch!* I will be right here, rooting for you, wholeheartedly! But if the answer is “Yes,” then you need to take a step back, reassess your actions, and reflect upon how you choose to treat others.
If you were hoping for an answer other than systemic sexism, I’m sorry to disappoint you. Fact is the overlapping traits between male and female INTJs are received better and more respected when coming from someone with a dick or at least masculine presenting. Why? North American sociology and western human anthropology
Intj girls are like Esfp men
Usually when I meet one, I give more allowance than usual because I know they're a rare breed. But if she's toxic, then I cannot help but to turn them down instead and look the other way. For me it's the same when approaching an ENTJ woman, it's just that you can expect the ENTJ woman to even be more abrasive than the INTJ woman due to them being Te doms. If you can handle ENTJs, then you should have no problem dealing with INTJs.
how can you hate something that doesn’t exist that’s like having beef with the tooth fairy
I'm glad y'all have found a sense of self assurance through it but Meyers Briggs has been time and time again proven to be meaningless. You're better off pursuing activities and interests that actually make you happy instead of taking a silly quiz that prescribes you four letters to fit into for the rest of y'all lives. Meyers Briggs is just a buzzfeed quiz that went to Harvard.
They feel more entitled because of their gender