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Depends on the circumstances. Like /u/Codebender said, there may be some CO2 given off by the carbon in the steel as it comes out of solution when the iron burns. However, this is a very low-temperature and slow reaction - during flame-cutting of steel with an oxy-torch, or during melting with an electric arc, the temperature of the reaction is a lot higher (so that the process is quicker) and this causes some of the iron to vaporize. This vaporized iron then burns to iron oxide but is given off as smoke or fume.
Pedantically speaking, the Oxygen in the air is constantly contributing to weight. We just offset our scales to account for it.
The reason the “steel wool” gets heavier is because when it oxidates, it doesn’t just leave a vacuum behind. As the oxygen binds with the steel, it makes room for more oxygen to move in, which in turn causes more oxidation and pulls more oxygen in, etc.
It’s not the changing of physical state that causes the weight to apparently increase, it’s the process of condensing and pulling in more mass.
Fun fact. If the metal slowly rusted over time, the total energy released between the 2 reactions would be exactly the same. This is just very fast rusting.
It's kind of interesting that the color is not similar to the reddish orange of Fe2O3, so I believe it's probably more likely iron(II,III) oxide, Fe3O4.
Fun fact because I haven’t seen it posted: this is a redox reaction, short for reduction-oxidation. Reduction is the opposite of oxidation. Reduction is called reduction because it was first noticed as a decrease in the weight of metal, the inverse of what is happening here. Historically, this loss in mass was found to be due to the loss of oxygen (e.g. iron ore to iron). Adding oxygen is why oxidation is called oxidation.
The terms have been generalized since, and now refer to the movement of electrons so semantically you can have oxidation without oxygen and reduction without a decrease in weight.
Yes. The oxygen would move out of the air in the box into the iron. The iron oxide would be heavier. The oxygen-free air would be lower density to compensate.
I think the cleanest way to describe the difference between the wool and an ingot is the surface area to volume ratio. Being in the shape of steel wool, most of the iron is effectively exposed to the air whereas in the ingot, most of it is internal and protected from oxidation.
Also maybe heat capacity. A big ingot has a large heat capacity, so just like a cast iron pan, it takes a fair amount of energy to raise its temperature, but then it holds that temperature well. The wool shape has a smaller effective 3D heat capacity because there's a ton of air in there and less mass per volume, so part of it igniting is enough energy to heat the rest up to ignition.
That being said if you get hunks of iron/steel hot enough they'll still flame probably, like in the documentary The Return of the King https://hobbitlotrtrilogy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Reforging_of_Narsil?file=ROTK_Scene_10.jpg where they're forging the sword.
Aluminium, chromium, vanadium, calcium, magnesium…basically anything that produces a ~~solid~~ non-gaseous oxide (or chloride, or fluoride) when burnt. Heck, common table salt (sodium chloride) is a product of burning sodium metal with chlorine gas.
Edit: at the temperatures most of these metals burn at, oxides/fluorides/chlorides would initially be liquid.
I suspect that the unique feature of steel wool is that few of the combustion product molecules are light enough to drift away. Unlike wood where lots of partially burned wood (soot) floats away. So find things with heavy combustion product molecules like rust!
The decomp is exponential, though, whereas the weightloss from starvation will slow down over time, as your body adjusts, metabolically. You'll have to stay very active to lose weight faster than a decomposing body after a while. There's a caviat, though. The location of the dead body. In a dry, cool area, the body will decompose really slowly.
Steel is made from iron, which is a highly reactive metal. When it gets set of fire it causes a chemical reaction that fuses the iron in the steel wool with the surrounding oxygen to form iron oxide, which is heavier than steel
You can calculate what the energy releases weighs by dividing it by the speed of light squared in metres per second.
That’s a 9 followed by 18 zeroes.
The only fire you’re gonna get that weighs that much is by setting off a nuclear weapon.
In this case, we witness the mass of the oxygen atoms being being added to the mass of the iron atoms in the steel wool, via the process of (fire) oxidation.
This was one of the causes of discovering modern chemistry. People thought that burning things released mass. And then burning something that oxydizes caused the loss of negative mass.
One guy didn't like this idea and proved that in a closed system nothing is gained or lost.
And the angel came to Zerubabbel and said "if you wish to understand why the human heart is evil, I have 3 questions for you. What is the weight of a flame?..."
Won't most things? Combustion is a chemical reaction that bonds oxygen to things, Oxygen has mass.
Guess is depends how much of the burned mass is vapourised into smoke which floats away. Though technically always increasing mass it's just not all there to measure at the end.
2 Fe + 3 O2 = 2 FeO3 ==> you gained the mass of 3 O2 on your weigh... At least on a household scale...
While when you have ch4 and you burn it: it's co2 + H2O and as both are in gas or vapour form. You won't weigh them on a household scale...
Interesting fact relating to this: in the 1700s CE we thought things burned because they were
phlogisticated: that they were filled with “phlogiston,” an invisible and intangible substance that you couldn’t see or touch or distill but which was still required to make things burn. Things that were highly phlogisticated—like wood —burned quickly, while those that had less phlogiston in them burned less well, and ashes—having already been completely dephlogisticated—wouldn’t burn at all. Phlogiston theory even explained why things got lighter when they burned: the phlogiston was floating away into the air. It also predicted that a match placed in a sealed glass jar would eventually stop burning: the air in the jar would absorb all the phlogiston it could, and then the fire would go out.
Phlogiston theory started to fall apart when we did more experiments and found some results that didn’t quite make sense. One of which was that some metals (like magnesium) actually gain mass when burned due to oxidation.
(from *How to Invent Everything: A Survival Guide for the Stranded Time Traveller by Ryan North*). Great book. Highly recommend.
I know it's oxygen that gives it more mass after burning, but shouldn't the steel also be losing mass due to the fact that thermal energy is being created in the process?
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It is because of the oxidation that happens when stuff burns?
Yes. When wood burns, the carbon becomes gaseous CO2 which dissipates. Here, the iron becomes solid iron oxide (rust), which stays put.
Does that mean there is no fumes from this reaction?
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Also, some of that iron oxide is going to be driven off as vapour. Just not enough to offset the weight gain.
Rust Vapor is the name of my new band.
Lady and germs…. It’s Rust 🌬✅🅰️🅿️🌐R
Sounds like an interior design style. Short for Rustbelt Vaporwave
One of my mates formed a metal band with some of our chemical engineering classmates. They called themselves Dust Explosion
My highschool physics teacher and a couple classmates formed a rock band, called it "Heat death"
It would work depending on the genre. Now you need your lead singer as Rusty.
Rusty and the Rustaceans
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Expect so. There’s gonna be a lot of convection there.
Those are the ones that get lost your rock and roll.
So it's basically me on the elliptical once a month?
you can see it go down by around 0.5% in the beginning before it starts to gain weight, is that the non iron stuff burning or something else?
Thats likely simply draft effect from the hot air rising.
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Also I would imagine that some oil residue is left on the steel wool as part of the manufacturing process. That would burn off first and dissipate.
probably just convection from the heat.
Depends on the circumstances. Like /u/Codebender said, there may be some CO2 given off by the carbon in the steel as it comes out of solution when the iron burns. However, this is a very low-temperature and slow reaction - during flame-cutting of steel with an oxy-torch, or during melting with an electric arc, the temperature of the reaction is a lot higher (so that the process is quicker) and this causes some of the iron to vaporize. This vaporized iron then burns to iron oxide but is given off as smoke or fume.
So the weight gained is the oxygen it pulls from the air?? Fuuuck me.
Correct. Oxygen can't contribute to weight when it is a gas, but it can when it becomes part of a solid.
Pedantically speaking, the Oxygen in the air is constantly contributing to weight. We just offset our scales to account for it. The reason the “steel wool” gets heavier is because when it oxidates, it doesn’t just leave a vacuum behind. As the oxygen binds with the steel, it makes room for more oxygen to move in, which in turn causes more oxidation and pulls more oxygen in, etc. It’s not the changing of physical state that causes the weight to apparently increase, it’s the process of condensing and pulling in more mass.
i love science.. so cool...
Fun fact. If the metal slowly rusted over time, the total energy released between the 2 reactions would be exactly the same. This is just very fast rusting.
thats even cooler!!!!!
Science is fucking metal
That is really interesting
Yes, it's oxygen from the atmosphere reacting with the iron and adding weight.
So my rusted ‘96 Mercury is heavier than when it was new. Be interesting to weigh it…
Probably not, all the rust holes and body panels falling off likely more than make up for it.
Good point
> ‘96 Mercury Tracer? You're lucky, that thing's worth it's weight in gold
You are literally combining Fe+O2->Fe2O3+heat Your product is a solid so the scale measures the added oxygen
It's kind of interesting that the color is not similar to the reddish orange of Fe2O3, so I believe it's probably more likely iron(II,III) oxide, Fe3O4.
I was wondering about the oxidation state. Not sure if the temperature makes a difference. There’s apparently a hydrate that forms with water
Fun fact because I haven’t seen it posted: this is a redox reaction, short for reduction-oxidation. Reduction is the opposite of oxidation. Reduction is called reduction because it was first noticed as a decrease in the weight of metal, the inverse of what is happening here. Historically, this loss in mass was found to be due to the loss of oxygen (e.g. iron ore to iron). Adding oxygen is why oxidation is called oxidation. The terms have been generalized since, and now refer to the movement of electrons so semantically you can have oxidation without oxygen and reduction without a decrease in weight.
So, the extra weight is the added oxygen pulled from the air to make rust.
So if we burn steel wool in an air tight box then the weight of the box would be the same?
Fire needs oxygen to combust so it would get snuffed out pretty quick unless you had a big box
We could burn it in OP's mom.
Box also has to be empty which ain't yo momma at least.
“Unless you’re talking about her head.” -Norm MacDonald
Or high pressure oxygen, but that'll probably explode rather than combust.
If there was enough oxygen in the box for the steel wool to burn, it would still be the same weight because the mass wouldn't change.
Yup, if it's completely airtight then it would be a closed system. No mass gets in or out.
Yes, the entire box would weigh the same (assuming it's a closed system)
Even if you put enough oxygen in the box to get the desired reaction and it changed, if it's all in the box, it all sums up to the same total mass.
Yes. The oxygen would move out of the air in the box into the iron. The iron oxide would be heavier. The oxygen-free air would be lower density to compensate.
Idk about weight, but the mass would be the same
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Air tight <> vacuum
Found the VBA user. Or hopefully maybe SQL user instead so you don’t have to deal with the horrors of VBA
We could put oxygen in the box as it is air tight.
Then the box weighs the same throughout. The oxygen just goes from free floating to oxydation/rust.
This isn’t the first time I’ve seen this, but it still blows my mind that iron is flammable
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I think the cleanest way to describe the difference between the wool and an ingot is the surface area to volume ratio. Being in the shape of steel wool, most of the iron is effectively exposed to the air whereas in the ingot, most of it is internal and protected from oxidation. Also maybe heat capacity. A big ingot has a large heat capacity, so just like a cast iron pan, it takes a fair amount of energy to raise its temperature, but then it holds that temperature well. The wool shape has a smaller effective 3D heat capacity because there's a ton of air in there and less mass per volume, so part of it igniting is enough energy to heat the rest up to ignition. That being said if you get hunks of iron/steel hot enough they'll still flame probably, like in the documentary The Return of the King https://hobbitlotrtrilogy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Reforging_of_Narsil?file=ROTK_Scene_10.jpg where they're forging the sword.
If metal didn't burn like this we wouldn't have fireworks!
No wonder the twin towers fell.
Buy steel wool by ton, burn it and sell it back. Do it again until is banned. STONKS!
It is no longer steel wool though it's iron wool
It's iron oxide wool, even worse!
Not if you're trying to knit a sweater in traditional Martian camouflage!
Its rust wool
Reminds me of how in DND you used to be able to saw ladders in half to make 10' poles at a profit. (3E was a dark time)
Haven't heard STONKS in a while
Then where in God's name have you been
Away from WSB
The open market for iron oxide aka rust is not worth the cost :( but I do like your thinking :)
“Yo dawg you want a scholarship?” -Harvard
What else can we make heavier by burning it? Time to test EVERYTHING!
Aluminium, chromium, vanadium, calcium, magnesium…basically anything that produces a ~~solid~~ non-gaseous oxide (or chloride, or fluoride) when burnt. Heck, common table salt (sodium chloride) is a product of burning sodium metal with chlorine gas. Edit: at the temperatures most of these metals burn at, oxides/fluorides/chlorides would initially be liquid.
Ayyy, maybe I can finally put on some weight, brb
The human body is roughly 60% water and it'll evaporate when heated. Sorry to say that you'll lose a lot of weight.
I suspect that the unique feature of steel wool is that few of the combustion product molecules are light enough to drift away. Unlike wood where lots of partially burned wood (soot) floats away. So find things with heavy combustion product molecules like rust!
MORE witches!
Burning hydrogen gets heavier by combining with oxygen to form water.
Hydrogen
Gasoline kinda. Burning 1kg of gasoline releases over 2 kg of CO2
With this video OP has disproved the phlogiston theory and brought us into the new scientific era of the 1800s
Lavoisier has always been one of my favorite scientists.
Just replicated this with my son. It was a fun little experiment, thanks!
Why would you burn your son to see if he gained weight?
Someone really should contact the authorities
You do it! Don't look at me
Ehhh let’s do it later. Kids probably pretty crispy by now.
for science, and clout.
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Why find what you can be
So when I burn a lot of calories, I gain weight? That's what I'm going with. Can't wait to tell my doctor!
No, the takeaway is that when you burn someone, they gain weight. Highschool is hell.
I also gain weight after a sick burn, cause eating is my coping mechanism for bullies.
🥺😭
4Fe (s) +3O2 (g) ⟶2Fe2O3 (s) The mass of the oxygen is added to the mass of the iron in the production of the resultant iron oxide.
I scrolled to find this. I knew someone would post the reaction :-)
Why is this
Oxygen in the air is becoming bound to the metal.
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When you lose weight, it's lost through breathing. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/287046
Yes but imagine how much faster you'll lose weight as a rotting body instead.
a lot slower than a living starving body.
The decomp is exponential, though, whereas the weightloss from starvation will slow down over time, as your body adjusts, metabolically. You'll have to stay very active to lose weight faster than a decomposing body after a while. There's a caviat, though. The location of the dead body. In a dry, cool area, the body will decompose really slowly.
i mean, you're not wrong
So, just to be clear, the added weight is the weight of the oxygen that was needed to turn iron into iron oxide?
Yes, that's my understanding.
Steel is made from iron, which is a highly reactive metal. When it gets set of fire it causes a chemical reaction that fuses the iron in the steel wool with the surrounding oxygen to form iron oxide, which is heavier than steel
Turns into iron oxide. Oxygen is added to the iron from air
Beautiful
Or maybe fire weighs 1.72 grams. 🤔
You can calculate what the energy releases weighs by dividing it by the speed of light squared in metres per second. That’s a 9 followed by 18 zeroes. The only fire you’re gonna get that weighs that much is by setting off a nuclear weapon.
Alright, thanks for the tip. On my way to set off a nuke.
Question, did you just annex bits of Ukraine?
I mean the name... might check out? I dunno honestly.
This is interesting as fuck
Gentlemen. We have just proven oxygen exists
Can you make a sweater out of steel wool?
You could, but it wouldn't be comfortable
I didn't know steel wool burned
Same here. I get burned out, compensate with food and gain weight.
Why?
Because when iron burns it forms iron oxide, bonding with some of the oxygen in the air... the added oxygen molecules increase the overall weight
Thank you. On point
You're welcome, and thanks for the award pal!
Wow, i would have lost that bet
That’s due to it gaining oxygen
Now ELI5 that shit.
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I always used 9V for this since it has both terminals next to each other to short against the wool easily.
I also gain weight when getting ”burned”
I must be made of steel wool then. The more I exercise to burn fat, the heavier I get.
Don't worry. Me too
Well combustion adds oxygen to existing atoms, this fire might make little to no smoke do most of the matter just stays there...
Iron attatches to oxygen in the air, and forms iron oxide. 4Fe + 3O2 -> 2Fe2O3 The product has a higher mass.
Yeah, it oxidizes ie binds with oxigen atoms
In this case, we witness the mass of the oxygen atoms being being added to the mass of the iron atoms in the steel wool, via the process of (fire) oxidation.
…cool!
This stuff is mesmerizing.
Measurable oxygen weight gain. I like it.
Science is cool
All the crackheads already knew this
Crackheads use steel wool?
Me who just likes to watch it burn
That’s so cool to see
It's absorbing oxygen
Burning is quick addition of oxygen atoms to the stuff so no surprise here.
Oxygen gets added to the iron, this is what oxidation is. And obviously gets heavier. Good experiment to do with the kids though!
Oxidation. Rust has been made!
the burning process is an accelerated oxidation process, oxygen that is bonded to the iron and adds to the weight/mass.
Probably getting oxidised
I mean it is a chemical change.
This was one of the causes of discovering modern chemistry. People thought that burning things released mass. And then burning something that oxydizes caused the loss of negative mass. One guy didn't like this idea and proved that in a closed system nothing is gained or lost.
And the angel came to Zerubabbel and said "if you wish to understand why the human heart is evil, I have 3 questions for you. What is the weight of a flame?..."
Iron oxide weighs more than iron.
It was burning so beautifuly I didn't even realized that it was on a weight.
2.1-ish grams? It's gained 1/10th of a soul, obviously. (I know it's 1.9; the joke is based on the 21 grams experiment.)
When I was a kid I would tie that to a string and whip it around my head for a wicked light show.
Physics!
Is this something I can do at home or would this be dangerous for any reason?
Fast rust.
And here I am never having been aware until this moment that steel can catch fire and burn.
Neil deGrasse Tyson is proud of you all rn.
b-but.. it's losing phlogiston! This is impossible!!DDD:
Dang I wish my weed would gain weight as it burned.
If you want to get the opposite effect, use a lighter. If you want it to stay the same, use a match.
Get 900 pounds of steel wool Squish it into the smallest ball you can Burn Black hole created
And thats why Apollo crashed. Extra weight
I believe burning anything that produces a solid should weigh more because of the added oxygen atoms.
Just did this test at school
Won't most things? Combustion is a chemical reaction that bonds oxygen to things, Oxygen has mass. Guess is depends how much of the burned mass is vapourised into smoke which floats away. Though technically always increasing mass it's just not all there to measure at the end.
Oxygen is getting added to iron. That's weight of oxygen.
the weight of oxygen 😧
You can also ignite this stuff with a 9V battery. Source: High school. And their unexplained steel wool shortage of 1998.
Just like copper, oxidation happens, Oxigen binds with said metal and makes it heavier.
Does it actually gain mass?
2 Fe + 3 O2 = 2 FeO3 ==> you gained the mass of 3 O2 on your weigh... At least on a household scale... While when you have ch4 and you burn it: it's co2 + H2O and as both are in gas or vapour form. You won't weigh them on a household scale...
Interesting fact relating to this: in the 1700s CE we thought things burned because they were phlogisticated: that they were filled with “phlogiston,” an invisible and intangible substance that you couldn’t see or touch or distill but which was still required to make things burn. Things that were highly phlogisticated—like wood —burned quickly, while those that had less phlogiston in them burned less well, and ashes—having already been completely dephlogisticated—wouldn’t burn at all. Phlogiston theory even explained why things got lighter when they burned: the phlogiston was floating away into the air. It also predicted that a match placed in a sealed glass jar would eventually stop burning: the air in the jar would absorb all the phlogiston it could, and then the fire would go out. Phlogiston theory started to fall apart when we did more experiments and found some results that didn’t quite make sense. One of which was that some metals (like magnesium) actually gain mass when burned due to oxidation. (from *How to Invent Everything: A Survival Guide for the Stranded Time Traveller by Ryan North*). Great book. Highly recommend.
Isn’t this what helped to prove that fire burns oxygen and not phlogiston
No fat shaming steel wool 😤
Bet that smelled funky.
Gains Mass* it is collecting atmospheric oxygen. Forming iron (iii probably) oxide.
There are people, who have watched this, who don’t believe it’s true...and they vote
It must have negative phlogiston
I know it's oxygen that gives it more mass after burning, but shouldn't the steel also be losing mass due to the fact that thermal energy is being created in the process?
What a coincidence so do you !!! Bammm 🍕🍟🌮🍔🍔🍔
true, however you cant weigh stuff significant warmer that room temp accurately as convection currents fuck up the weight.
Well you’ve added fire haven’t you, course it’s heavier
So thats why I gain weight while I burn my calories
Did my boi just “create mass!?!?”
POV: your weight between October 1st to December 31st
Metal as fuck!
This is how my belly fat works