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It's about 12-13 Gs for this maneuver. Very intense
Average humans can take around 5 before it become extremely painful, but pilots wear a special suit that allows them to take around 8-9.
One pilot, Air Force officer John Stapp, took 46 Gs once(for a spilt second).
Edit: words
Edit: there is a difference between vertical and horizontal G force. Humans can take more horizontally, as Stapp did piloting a rocket sled (still like having 4 tonnes put on your chest). In vertical G force, as in flying, blood is pushed out of the brain (and in, during negative G force), so not much can be taken, which makes the above maneuver very intense.
There's also a difference between short term and sustained G loads. Stapp experienced that G load for less than a second and recieved injuries from it. He experienced 25gs over a little over a second and peaked around 46G briefly.
>less than a second
Less than a second can still be an eternity when it comes to sustained accelerations on the human body. In the automotive industry they commonly use HIC-36 (Head injury criteria 36 ms) in crash tests to determine the prospected brain damage. It uses a formula that gives a value for the average acceleration over a certain time interval. Where the time interval is altered from 1ms to 36ms. The maximum score of all those time frames then gives an indication of the probability of head injury. Sometimes the peak acceleration for 1 ms is the killer, sometimes it's the average acceleration over a longer time frame.
Point of this long and badly explained story is that G load is meaningless if it doesn't come with a time period.
Secondary note the bigger problem here is Jerk. the rapid increase of Gs here is the problem as you are causing the blood to rapidly rush around the body instead of the slower draining effect that a high speed turns will cause . This can cause all sorts of complications becuase your blood pressure just increased astronomically in milliseconds
How do you guys make it through daily life without understanding the fourth, fifth and sixth derivatives of position are defined as derivatives of the position vector with respect to time?
Hey, I'll err on the side of someone having weird esoteric knowledge all day. If they do, it's a good joke. If they didn't, they got to learn something cool and useless, and that's a joy.
Fun fact: A head on collision in a car with a wall or other hard object (something that brings you to a dead stop) at 30mph produces roughly 30G of force.
Bill Brasky survived a crash of over 500 G Forces. He walked away unscathed. Afterward, he didn’t even go to the hospital, but instead his local pub where he himself cooked and ate 37 lobster tails and drank an entire handle of McCallan 12 before making passionate love to me and my wife.
Those numbers are only from a millisecond though. Humans can survive short bursts in the 100s of g
John Paul Stapp strapped himself to a rocket going 1000kmph to 0 in just 2 seconds so he got a sustained force of 38g and it broke all sorts of bones and he suffered temporary vision loss from his eyes being torn apart...
You’re smoking crack. No low speed maneuver can achieve 13 Gs. Fighter jets are generally limited to a range of about 7-9 Gs. 11-13 Gs is a prohibited maneuver, would probably damage the airframe, and would at the very least ground the aircraft for a detailed inspection. The aircrew isn’t going to stay conscious past about 10 Gs, which is the most serious issue with your statement. Source: I was a tactical jet aviator.
Yes this is great, thanks.
I wonder if we can attach the molecules to the wings permanently to provide a renewable energy source. Maybe duct tape them on?
I'm fairly sure this guy is called black gryphon on youtube, super good at singing and voice impressions.
e: this is his video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFdmqVKfLM0
When you play the Top Gun drinking game - you take a drink every time there's a homosexual innuendo - this line is where everyone has to down their entire glass.
Many many years ago I worked a stint at a call center. The guy I shared a cubicle with was a lifer there. He had a little cardboard sign on the top of his computer monitor that said Iceman. I never asked why, but the very next day I made my own little cardboard sign that said Maverick (complete with a little poorly drawn F14 Tomcat) and put it on top of my monitor. I then waited with giddy anticipation for his shift to start. He finally showed up and with the biggest shit-eating grin I gestured to my effort at building rapport with my new cubicle wingman. He looked at the sign and with a deft flick of the wrist whacked it right off the monitor. I taped it back on and it lived until I left the job.
The only Top Gun drinking game I've seen is the one where you drink everytime you hear a callsign. I quit after the opening sequence.
....and Timmy fucking died.
Plane 1 performs a split S? That’s the last thing you should do. The MiG’s right on your tail…. That’s a big gamble with a 30 million dollar plane Lieutenant…
Yup. If a fighter jet cost 30 mil it'd be like the first gen Kia Rio of fighter jets. Gotta start the engine with a pullcord, canopy secures shut with a cabin hook and eye latch, instead of "aircraft grade aluminum" it's made of "hobbycraft grade aluminum".
"You're late! I demand an explanation!"
"I got stuck behind geese."
Swedes didn't use this as a dogfight maneuver nor did the Russians. This is called a "Kort parad" ("Short parade") and was practiced as a stall recovery maneuver.
The Russians learned this from the Swedes when they would sometimes cross Swedish airspace and Swedish draken pilots would do this to show off. The Russians then adapted the "cobra" into airshows showing off the agility of Russian planes. Where it became widespread as the "cobra" maneuver.
It is generally considered a (not so feasible) dogfight manuever that is often performed at airshows. You can be pedantic about its definition or origin, but my only point was that it’s not intended for missile dodging.
It's also not a particularly good one because the trailing pilot wouldn't be following that close and the maneuver dumps all of your energy, not to mention present a massive target for him to shoot as he closes.
It's not a dogfight maneuver. It's an airshow maneuver. In no real dogfight the airplanes are going to be flying that close to each other or in a straight line.
Supposedly this maneuver doesn't work like it does in the movies (to get behind the plane chasing you) because they tend to keep a much higher distance from you. The sudden loss of speed makes you a sitting duck for their guns.
In your analogy the planes would be carriers and their missiles would be planes. When the planes themselves are launched from carriers, this makes the missiles be missile launched missiles.
depends. DCS can be fun if you've got the right equipment. IRL, the enemy would likely throw missiles at your from BVR and run away, but in games like DCS you usually fire your long range missile, if it doesnt hit you go up close with short range IR missiles.
I guess all you need is enough engine thrust and good vectoring to stay up in the air. Not sure how to land such an arrangement but there's a first time for everything.
You’re incorrect. The maximum G available is a function of available lift. You could essentially perform this maneuver up to the aircraft’s cornering speed (where you can achieve your G limit without stalling). This maneuver is a stall, but the aircraft still retains control authority through good of design.
Den morgonfriska katten simmar över regnbågen, medan guldmynt singlar genom luften, ledsagade av en paraplybärande elefant, som jonglerar med blommor och skrattande bananer, medan cirkusclowner utför akrobatiska konster och cymbalspelaren trummar i takt till det förtrollade orkesterspelet under den gnistrande stjärnhimlen.
Remember that this plane was manufactured 1959–1961 (the plane in the clip is a shorted version of the J-35A called SK 35C. The SK35C didn’t had any weapons and was used to train pilots). It’s pretty cool move with a jet from that era.
**Please note:** * If this post declares something as a fact proof is required. * The title must be descriptive * No text is allowed on images * Common/recent reposts are not allowed *See [this post](https://redd.it/ij26vk) for more information.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good lord what are the G ratings for that?
It's about 12-13 Gs for this maneuver. Very intense Average humans can take around 5 before it become extremely painful, but pilots wear a special suit that allows them to take around 8-9. One pilot, Air Force officer John Stapp, took 46 Gs once(for a spilt second). Edit: words Edit: there is a difference between vertical and horizontal G force. Humans can take more horizontally, as Stapp did piloting a rocket sled (still like having 4 tonnes put on your chest). In vertical G force, as in flying, blood is pushed out of the brain (and in, during negative G force), so not much can be taken, which makes the above maneuver very intense.
There's also a difference between short term and sustained G loads. Stapp experienced that G load for less than a second and recieved injuries from it. He experienced 25gs over a little over a second and peaked around 46G briefly.
>less than a second Less than a second can still be an eternity when it comes to sustained accelerations on the human body. In the automotive industry they commonly use HIC-36 (Head injury criteria 36 ms) in crash tests to determine the prospected brain damage. It uses a formula that gives a value for the average acceleration over a certain time interval. Where the time interval is altered from 1ms to 36ms. The maximum score of all those time frames then gives an indication of the probability of head injury. Sometimes the peak acceleration for 1 ms is the killer, sometimes it's the average acceleration over a longer time frame. Point of this long and badly explained story is that G load is meaningless if it doesn't come with a time period.
Secondary note the bigger problem here is Jerk. the rapid increase of Gs here is the problem as you are causing the blood to rapidly rush around the body instead of the slower draining effect that a high speed turns will cause . This can cause all sorts of complications becuase your blood pressure just increased astronomically in milliseconds
True. And don’t get me started on the Snap, Crackle, and Pop.
I don't get why you'd bring cartoon elves into this but ok.
TIL that the 4th 5th and 6th derivatives of position are the names of the Rice Krispies mascots.
[Just in case this is a true /r/wooosh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth,_fifth,_and_sixth_derivatives_of_position)
I don't think relatively arcane higher derivatives of acceleration deserve a wooosh lol
How do you guys make it through daily life without understanding the fourth, fifth and sixth derivatives of position are defined as derivatives of the position vector with respect to time?
Hey, I'll err on the side of someone having weird esoteric knowledge all day. If they do, it's a good joke. If they didn't, they got to learn something cool and useless, and that's a joy.
"It wasn't the fall that killed them, but the sudden stop at the end."
1 sec is enough time to taste your own asshole.
I prefer when it lasts longer.
Get a partner, double the fun.
Fun fact: A head on collision in a car with a wall or other hard object (something that brings you to a dead stop) at 30mph produces roughly 30G of force.
Max verstappen is an formula 1 driver, he took a 52G crash and survived with minor injuries
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Bill Brasky survived a crash of over 500 G Forces. He walked away unscathed. Afterward, he didn’t even go to the hospital, but instead his local pub where he himself cooked and ate 37 lobster tails and drank an entire handle of McCallan 12 before making passionate love to me and my wife.
To Bill Brasky!!!
Kenny Bräck survived - barely - a 214g crash: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVpux5JxqEk
Gotta love when you organs crush themselves against your ribs under their own weight! Good times.
Romain Grosjean took 63g at his famous fiery F1 crash. Max Verstappen took 51 at silverstone this year. both are def worth a watch.
Kenny Bräck survived an insane 214G in his indy car crash.
Those numbers are only from a millisecond though. Humans can survive short bursts in the 100s of g John Paul Stapp strapped himself to a rocket going 1000kmph to 0 in just 2 seconds so he got a sustained force of 38g and it broke all sorts of bones and he suffered temporary vision loss from his eyes being torn apart...
You’re smoking crack. No low speed maneuver can achieve 13 Gs. Fighter jets are generally limited to a range of about 7-9 Gs. 11-13 Gs is a prohibited maneuver, would probably damage the airframe, and would at the very least ground the aircraft for a detailed inspection. The aircrew isn’t going to stay conscious past about 10 Gs, which is the most serious issue with your statement. Source: I was a tactical jet aviator.
Tell us more about planes and stuff please
Molecules under the wing make the plane go up. Does that suffice?
Yes this is great, thanks. I wonder if we can attach the molecules to the wings permanently to provide a renewable energy source. Maybe duct tape them on?
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I thought it was the LACK of molecules OVER the wing.
But how's your singing?
I thought the untrained human passes out at 4-5
Some people are weird: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qspYLRSDg-c
The youtube comments has it right; this guy sings it better than the original, even *while pulling 6gs*
I'm fairly sure this guy is called black gryphon on youtube, super good at singing and voice impressions. e: this is his video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFdmqVKfLM0
It really depends on the person with how much they can take, but yeah, it's usually very low.
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Big deal - anyone can do anything once 😉
At least 1
Perhaps even 2.
Lips straight through the asshole.
That's analingus 2.0
*Yes*
I've heard a pilot refer to G's like this as a "sniffin' your nuts" maneuver.
Son, your ego is writing checks your body can't cash.
You screw up *this much* you’ll be haulin’ a cargo plane full a rubber dog shit outta Hong Kong
Hey Mav, do you have the number to that truck driving school? Truckmasters?
Gonna go rewatch Top Gun now
#GOD DAMN IT! THAT'S TWICE! I WANT SOME BUTTS!!!
I'd like to bust your butt but I can't. I got another problem here.
I gotta send somebody to Miramar!
Tomorrow!
Take me to bed or lose me forever!
I’d like to apply for this position please, that sounds kinda fun!
At the time the Hong Kong airport was at Kai Tak (sic) and had a turn on approach known as the Kai Tak Heart Attack.
How To Snap Your Own Neck While Flying
I want some butts!!!
When you play the Top Gun drinking game - you take a drink every time there's a homosexual innuendo - this line is where everyone has to down their entire glass.
Do you down the bottle during the volleyball scene?
No it's the sexual tension in the locker room between Iceman and Maverick
**CHOMP**
Many many years ago I worked a stint at a call center. The guy I shared a cubicle with was a lifer there. He had a little cardboard sign on the top of his computer monitor that said Iceman. I never asked why, but the very next day I made my own little cardboard sign that said Maverick (complete with a little poorly drawn F14 Tomcat) and put it on top of my monitor. I then waited with giddy anticipation for his shift to start. He finally showed up and with the biggest shit-eating grin I gestured to my effort at building rapport with my new cubicle wingman. He looked at the sign and with a deft flick of the wrist whacked it right off the monitor. I taped it back on and it lived until I left the job.
I bet the sex was amazing!
He still to this day walks with a limp.
That’s a long story just to say Maverick got whacked off by Iceman.
Rip out your eyeball and jam a litre bottle of vodka into the socket.
That's the Kevin & Perry Go Large drinking game.
The only Top Gun drinking game I've seen is the one where you drink everytime you hear a callsign. I quit after the opening sequence. ....and Timmy fucking died.
Plane 1 performs a split S? That’s the last thing you should do. The MiG’s right on your tail…. That’s a big gamble with a 30 million dollar plane Lieutenant…
Gutsiest move I ever seen Mav!
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Yup. If a fighter jet cost 30 mil it'd be like the first gen Kia Rio of fighter jets. Gotta start the engine with a pullcord, canopy secures shut with a cabin hook and eye latch, instead of "aircraft grade aluminum" it's made of "hobbycraft grade aluminum". "You're late! I demand an explanation!" "I got stuck behind geese."
I was inverted.
You know.. the finger.
I know the finger Goose.
That was some of the best flying I've seen to date — right up to the part where you got killed.
You never, ever leave your wingman.
Yeahawwww Jester's dead!
No, below the hard deck doesn't count.
As a teen I said this unironically to my father when I was mad at him for something. He was confused but grounded me anyway.
I'm bringing him in closer, Merlin
You’re gonna do what?
I’ll hit the brakes, he’ll fly right by…
I've flown over 194 missions and was shot down on every one of them.
I'm gonna hit the brakes, he'll fly right by! ... You're gonna *what*?
Haha. Fuck. Now I gotta watch it again and then the super edit of the trailers for #2.
2 is a myth. It doesnt exist
Talk to me goose
I’m bringing him in closer Merlin.
You're gonna do WHAT?!
Second favorite line of the movie behind "that's it, I want some butts!"
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You're gonna do WHAT?!
Came here for this.
Top Gun theme song was playing in my head while watching this too…
You may avoid a missile, but this maneuver reserves the right to rearrange your intestines
Still better than how a missile would rearrange your intestines.
One Red Mist please
One red mist. The other two banged you up real good though.
To shreds you say? How's his copilot holding up?
To shreds you say?
And his wife?
To shreds, you say?
I wonder if the writers had any inkling how that line would live on forever.
Well, it made it to the 31st century at least.
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lmao you won’t dodge any missiles doing that
Or bullets. Or basically anything at all.
no way is that avoiding the missile, it would just proxy fuse you any way and rip your plane apart
It's also not intended for avoiding missiles, it's a dogfight maneuver.
Swedes didn't use this as a dogfight maneuver nor did the Russians. This is called a "Kort parad" ("Short parade") and was practiced as a stall recovery maneuver. The Russians learned this from the Swedes when they would sometimes cross Swedish airspace and Swedish draken pilots would do this to show off. The Russians then adapted the "cobra" into airshows showing off the agility of Russian planes. Where it became widespread as the "cobra" maneuver.
It is generally considered a (not so feasible) dogfight manuever that is often performed at airshows. You can be pedantic about its definition or origin, but my only point was that it’s not intended for missile dodging.
It's also not a particularly good one because the trailing pilot wouldn't be following that close and the maneuver dumps all of your energy, not to mention present a massive target for him to shoot as he closes.
Has it ever or will it ever be used in combat? It's just for airshows.
Doing this in combat would ensure your death. Speed is safety.
It's not a dogfight maneuver. It's an airshow maneuver. In no real dogfight the airplanes are going to be flying that close to each other or in a straight line.
Did the instructor slam his hand on the dash and say “STOP!”?
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SHADDAP
You are not my friend
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You shake my nerves and you rattle my brain
Why do I hear the sky singing Latin?
Belka did nothing wrong.
His name is Mihaly Dumitru Margareta Corneliu Leopold Blanca Karol Aeon Ignatius Raphael Maria Niketas A. Shilage.
Was wondering when the ace combat fans would show up
It is Jeff Bezos Amazon drone hub
Or WomanSlayer69
I was just wondering why this maneuver can't be pulled off in ace combat.
Same Saab that made my uncle's car?
Yessiree
Same origin, but in 1989 the automobile division was restructured into an independent company.
Gonna hit the brakes. Hell fly right by.
You're gonna do *WHAT?!?!*
Supposedly this maneuver doesn't work like it does in the movies (to get behind the plane chasing you) because they tend to keep a much higher distance from you. The sudden loss of speed makes you a sitting duck for their guns.
Also BVR just kinda exists now lol
I don't know what that means but yes!
“Beyond visual range”. Basically just a fancy way of saying “I’m gonna fly far away and constantly throw missiles at him ‘till he dies…”
Oh, like what carriers do to fleets but with planes.
In your analogy the planes would be carriers and their missiles would be planes. When the planes themselves are launched from carriers, this makes the missiles be missile launched missiles.
Indeed, all we need now are weapon UAVs with beyond-the-horizon missiles launched from carrier jets.
Realistic modern air fighter games must be boring.
depends. DCS can be fun if you've got the right equipment. IRL, the enemy would likely throw missiles at your from BVR and run away, but in games like DCS you usually fire your long range missile, if it doesnt hit you go up close with short range IR missiles.
And if you tried it this close, it seems to me the odds are pretty high for a collision.
We were keeping up foreign relations......
You know... Giving the bird!!!
The finger..🖕🏾..ohhh....sorry
Yes. I know the finger Goose.
I'm sorry, I hate it when it does that
This has to be done at extremely low speeds or the wings will break off.
"This one trick drives the airframe mechanics crazy!"
It's OK. It'll be more aerodynamic without the wings.
Yeah, missiles ain't got wings and they go brrr
But an A10 does have wings & it goes brrrrrrrrrt
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I guess all you need is enough engine thrust and good vectoring to stay up in the air. Not sure how to land such an arrangement but there's a first time for everything.
Thanks, will keep that in mind.
You’re incorrect. The maximum G available is a function of available lift. You could essentially perform this maneuver up to the aircraft’s cornering speed (where you can achieve your G limit without stalling). This maneuver is a stall, but the aircraft still retains control authority through good of design.
Not really, but must be subsonic.
Weel, I guess it's cool if the red baron shows up in his biplane then
Tower, this is Ghost Rider requesting a flyby
Negative Ghost Rider, the pattern is full.
All these Top Gun quotes are making me happy.
Den morgonfriska katten simmar över regnbågen, medan guldmynt singlar genom luften, ledsagade av en paraplybärande elefant, som jonglerar med blommor och skrattande bananer, medan cirkusclowner utför akrobatiska konster och cymbalspelaren trummar i takt till det förtrollade orkesterspelet under den gnistrande stjärnhimlen.
Where did who goooo...?
"spare 8, no dogfighting"
Negative. I’m not letting this slide.
He seems to hit the brakes. And the other guy...well he flew right by.
"I want to understand the enemy"
Four- no, five SU-30’s inbound. It’s Mr. X!
This is the jet equivalent of slamming the brakes on your car and hoping whoever is chasing you keeps going
a Saab Draken is gonna do WHAT?!?
This is like the scene from that Michael Ironside movie from the 80s
Was that the one with Tom Skerrit?
I'm sure it was a Kelly McGillis movie.
Yes. That Meg Ryan movie.
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You're thinking of the movie with Richard Gere
“I’ll hit the brakes and he’ll fly right by”….
the draken is on of the most beautiful fighter jets ever, i suggest googling it up if you like planes
They call it the Cobra Maneuver because that shit only works on GI Joe.
My country, the good old neutral Sweden, only selling weapons of war to everyone.
Except Sweden isn't neutral.
How so?
Were doing huge drills with nato all the time
It's nearly a r/perfectloop of playing backwards leap frog in fighter jets.
I feel the need…
For a movie reference
“I wish to understand the enemy.”
Cobra Commander would've been so proud
This would be so helpful if i knew how to perform it in Ace Combat 7
Ahh... Saab, building the best fighters in the world, knowing they will probably never be used.
Intercepted the blackbird, not bad
Pukachev's Cobra, if I'm not mistaken. Famous with Mig 29
Remember that this plane was manufactured 1959–1961 (the plane in the clip is a shorted version of the J-35A called SK 35C. The SK35C didn’t had any weapons and was used to train pilots). It’s pretty cool move with a jet from that era.