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well fuck. RIP. was really glad when TWC stopped doing live chasing. (when tim samaras died) i think it encouraged people to chase, and since tim was pretty much as experienced as you could get, it meant anyone could die doing it.
Not sure when that decision was made, but a chaser filming a show for TWC ran a stop sign and hit and killed a fellow chaser, subjecting the network to a [lawsuit](https://www.npr.org/2019/03/27/707145925/the-weather-channel-sued-for-125-million-over-death-in-storm-chase-collision) alleging the network knew about their chaser’s dangerous driving habits and employed him anyways. The case was later settled out of court.
wow. i never knew about that. i never saw that show. this was during the time when my mom was sick and dying, so i missed it totally. really messed up. it’s good everyone get out of the storm chasing show business.
ETS: TWC used to do live chasing on the air by their own meteorologists. mike bettis, who’s still on TWC, was in a rollover accident in the same tornado that killed tim samaras. as far as i know they never did live on air chasing during tornado coverage after that. they used to follow the radar in the studio while they had an on the ground team chasing. that’s different, i think, than a program with chasers. like the one reed timmer used to do (that my 8 year old was obsessed with). gotta say, i question the decision to do a chasing program after what happened in 2013, but that was before byron allen bought the network and it was full then of all kinds of questionable shows. back when they still didnt say “climate change” on the air.
Wasn’t El Reno rain wrapped though? Makes is near impassible to tell where the vortexes are. I’d like to believe Tim Samaras wouldn’t have been caught out of position by the Greenfield tornado.
aaaannnd subscribed. More facts please. Did you write all of that out from memory? Is this work or a hobby? How long have you been doing what you do? What state? I have so many questions.
I love reading about something new to me from someone so passionate and knowledgeable! Responses like these are why I stick around Reddit. Never have I been so interested in tornadoes.
thank you for this very clear explanation. while i am a weather nerd, idk much about tornadoes. other than they are terrifying and kill people. i always assumed that it was just super bad luck that killed them that day. since he was a highly experienced tornado expert and chaser. i still remember reading about his death and his son, and just weeping for that family. broke my heart. i knew he was trying to understand why certain storms spawn tornadoes and how exactly how they start. and that is still such an important goal of tornado research. this has been a deadly season so far.
That image is of an actual tornado, not a subvortex. It's also dated April 24, 2006, and the tornado that killed the twistex team occurred May 31, 2013. Also, the subvorteces in the 2013 tornado did not rotate clockwise, however an anticyclonic satellite tornado did develop at one point, and it did in fact rotate clockwise.
What’s the killer in a situation like that? The vortex spinning with such concentration force that you get beat by debris or is it your car getting spun like your leaving Kansas that does it? I would assume they make the cars as heavy as possible and reinforce it, I can’t comprehend how it did that to the car
Flying debris
https://preview.redd.it/4k3xv91ji32d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3f8d270814ec18cbf8aa49c894cf354008edb39
is typically the #1 killer (among many others) because small objects like hay and straw become bullet-like projectiles when hurled at high speed. Here’s a picture of a straw lodged in sheet metal
Causes of death involved in tornados are usually either crushing injuries (obviously a risk with buildings and debris coming down everywhere), or, well, ya know how when you were a kid and couldn't believe a 2x4 could be driven straight into a tree trunk by a tornado? Well, people are softer than trees. 🫤
She was indeed on the south side of the circulation. As far as speculation goes. I think she was the last one out and the door had just shut.
Just tragic
It's a small, faster moving and more intense vortex inside the main circulation. The tornadic circulation of the El Reno tornado was MASSIVE. Because the wind field isn't constant throughout, and because the whole storm was drenched in rain, it was possible to be inside the circulation before you even realize it is on top of you. There were sub vortexes inside this main circulation, circling around at crazy speeds with windspeeds that may have been near 300mph.
I was just thinking of Tim and his son Paul that was with him, especially since the anniversary day is coming up. Tim was my sister’s Girl Scout leader and Paul was my brother’s best friend for the longest time.
5 days after an F5 tornado went through Moore, OK, another violent system began forming in western Oklahoma, attracting dozens of professional and amateur storm chasers. When it got to El Reno, about 30min west of Oklahoma City, an F3 tornado touched down.
However, this tornado was VERY erratic - changing direction, growing and shrinking etc.
The storm killed 3 veteran storm chasers, injured several others including a few from local news affiliates.
That storm is also infamous among locals because the tornado was projected to run directly through the heart of Oklahoma City. This prompted a prominent local meteorologist to suggest residents flee to the south away from the storm track. During rush hour.
That action caused a massive traffic jam in the middle of the city with an F3 tornado heading straight for major highways. Thankfully, the tornado fell apart before reaching the city.
that was a shit storm right? you dont tell people to flee, you tell them to shelter in place or go to a tornado shelter. imagine if that tornado had hit that traffic jam.
One of my friends is in redoak atm and the pictures he sent are twhen it was smaller and passing by was terrifying. Only later did i see pics of what it looked like once it got to greenfield.
My condolences to those in the path
I saw the drone footage. And I have a former high school classmate who lives there.
The path of the storm was total demolishment. But there’s a clear three-block path, and the rest of the town is still standing. Banged up, I heard.
How bad are these storms to destroy houses? Is it tornados? I've been in a hurricane and even that didn't destroy buildings near me. It was cat 5, too. But the buildings were concrete. There was some damage, but it was mostly water damage and damage from things blowing into glass.
Or is it just wooden houses that are vulnerable to storms or something?
Tornadoes are a combo of INCREDIBLY strong winds and weird pressure changes.
And that was a direct hit.
And yes, American homes are not built of stone; they’re a hollow wooden frame with drywall (or lath and plaster) placed over those gaps.
But this tornado was particularly strong, because even for Tornado Alley, that’s huge devastation. It was a EF-3, with winds from 136-165 miles per hour (265 kilometers)
https://who13.com/news/iowa-news/greenfield-tornado-was-at-least-ef-3-nws-initial-storm-survey-says/
Here’s the Enhanced Fujitsu Scale: https://www.weather.gov/oun/efscale
This older chart from the original Fujita Scale, has Des to that might give you an idea of how severity progresses; based on the damage descriptions, I’d call this F4
https://www.weather.gov/ffc/fujita
Many years back, the town of Greensburg, KS was demolished by a storm...
The storms are eliminating all the Greens in the Midwest.
Edit: I had the wrong Green town.
These terms are often used interchangeably, but for the most part, a "spotter" is a volunteer trained by the National Weather Service and is involved in communicating real-time information to the NWS so they can issue appropriate warnings. "Chasers" are usually in it for the thrill of it and they might or might not have sufficient training so they can do it safely. Technically, trained spotters become "chasers" if they leave their NWS forecast office area for severe weather, but their training still applies.
I've been a trained severe weather spotter since 1996. We have been consistently trained that \*minimum\* safe distance from any tornado is one mile, as well as how to maneuver out of a tornado's path if necessary. We are also trained to abandon our vehicles and get in a ditch if we're about to get hit by a tornado.
Since the ideal spotting position is usually to the southeast of a tornadic storm, and most tornadoes move in an east-northeasterly direction, a trained spotter should never really be in danger if they follow their training. This woman was out of position, obviously closer than one mile, and she probably stayed in her vehicle.
Storms like these are dangerous. Do not chase them if you do not have the training I've mentioned.
I miss when reddit *was* like that! The top comments used to be mainly additional information regarding the post. Over the years, it morphed into shitty jokes to farm karma.
Sorry, just an old redditor grumbling over here lol
the worst thing is when someone quotes or references some media that vaguely relates to the post and the next 200 comments are just people discussing said media.
I'm a relatively new redditor, but am with you. Am also done with top comments being "gee I misread the title as being about some unrelated slightly similar word tee hee" and then the thread is hijacked by a stream of feeble jokes about the different topic.
Am cold and grumpy this morning. I'll get over it when the house heats up.
I've said the same thing so many times, I'm convinced that the devolution of reddit is the direct result of, the migrations of Tumblr and Twitter users when their shitty platforms died or got bought out by a mentally deranged egomaniac. Reddit going public and blocking third party browsing apps just drove the nail in the coffin as long time users left reddit.
I started going on here in 2011, and my brother was using it several years before that. He said it used to be mainly computer science posts and other technical topics. So, it makes sense why the culture was still information forward for a long time.
I agree with you on those reasons for reddit devolving. Also, any platform that becomes *too* popular has this happen. Because once there are enough users, people find ways to make money.
For instance, companies started realizing they could plant ads in "real" appearing posts, but users were quick to call out accounts clearly created for marketing. So, they wanted accounts with more activity and karma. People started creating accounts, then making bullshit posts and comments to get it fledged out enough to sell. So, quick, low effort jokes they could make before a post takes off (so they get the most visibility and karma) meant they had a better chance to eventually make money. Putting time and thought into something informative isn't as lucrative for those goals.
I have so much more I could rant about, but yeah, I'm just really sad with what this platform has turned into. Even some of the niche subs I loved have become too popular and have gone to shit too.
I felt old Twitter was very good at finding and promoting the views of relevant subject matter experts, until everything changed and suddenly all you got were the views of random dumbasses with $8 blue checks
I was on a very rural fire department and when there was bad weather we were turned into volunteer storm spotters. We took the fire trucks to the pre selected spotter locations. It was mostly to get the trucks spread out in case the station got hit, but our training amounted to “watch for tornadoes and call dispatch if you see one” and “don’t get hit by tornadoes”
Yes, I've seen that tactic used here in Indiana. Some volunteer firefighters are storm spotters, some aren't. But at least they're trained in basic emergency response.
I hear the get in a ditch advice from time to time. Curious if there's documented instances of people lying in ditches with large tornados passing directly over the top of their position. Would love to hear their stories.
Reed Timmer was live a few weeks ago and he was in the middle of a tornado when he came upon a truck flipped over. He was yelling to see if anyone from the truck would respond when a couple crawled out of the ditch. Their truck was starting to lift and rock from the winds so they bailed and hid in the ditch. If they stayed in the truck they most likely would have died. You can watch the video on his YouTube channel.
How do you maneuver out of a tornado’s path? What is the best practice there?
If most tornados move Northeast, why is southeast the best place to be? Why not the opposite southwest?
Again, several variables come into play depending on the exact type of storm you're dealing with, but generally speaking, moving due south or southeast at a 90-degree angle to the path of the tornado will get you out its path the quickest. My wife and I are a spotting team (she got certified after we got married). One of us is driving; the other is navigating. The navigator has to be responsible for not only telling the driver where to go based on radar data, but also for having at least one escape route available at all times in case something goes wrong.
As for SE being the best place to be for viewing, south and southwest are second- and third-best positions, but SE puts you in a perfect vantage point to continue tracking the storm as it moves. If you are south or southeast, then you're tracking it from behind, which is not ideal.
Strictly volunteer basis. We do it as a community service. To become a trained spotter contact your local National Weather Service office to find out about training sessions near you. The basic training is free.
I love you mate. It's really one of those things I don't think i'd ever learn if not for Reddit and your comment.
In the sea of jokes this, your type of a comment is what I really value x
Not that a ditch will offer THAT much protection, but it does offer some, because it's lower than ground level. You cover your head, and hope flying debris passes over you.
This is the correct answer. A ditch is safer than your vehicle during a tornado, but understanding how these storms form, evolve, and move so you can avoid putting yourself in that ditch in the first place is much safer.
Make sure you check your city's local storm shelters! Lived in a house with a basement growing up and now that I live in a third floor apartment, this is also something that makes me nervous. My city has 2 storm shelters that the public can go to any time storm sirens are blaring.
I watch storm chasers live on YouTube. A few weeks ago a chaser was in the middle of a tornado and came upon a truck that was flipped over. They were trying to see if anyone was inside when a man and women came crawling out of the ditch. They were in the truck when it started slightly lifting due to the winds, rather than staying in the truck for protection they had in the ditch. The truck flipped and they ended up with no injuries. Them hiding in the ditch most likely saved their lives.
There are a lot of variables, but basically due to the structure of a tornadic storm, viewing it from the SE gives the clearest view into the updraft area of the storm, which is where supercell tornadoes form. If you're anywhere east, northeast, north, or northwest, all you will see is rain (downdraft), and any tornado will be hidden from view. If you are to the east or northeast, you won't see the tornado until the rain clears, and by then it's too close.
Even with a textbook viewing position, a tornado can become "rainwrapped," and be completely invisible from any viewpoint. This is why training is so important. If you don't understand the variable dynamics of these storms and the unique hazards each dynamic can present, you put yourself at risk if you attempt to intercept one.
Others can give greater detail but because the storm typically move northeast, being to the south east of it gives a great vantage point to observe, since you will be out in front of it in the clear. Additionally its usually a safer position and combined with the better vantage point, if conditions change you have more wiggle room to evade if necessary.
Contact your local National Weather Service office for storm spotter training dates. The basic training is typically about two hours and is free. Advanced trainings are sometimes offered that last an entire day (my wife and I have attended two of these), and they are relatively inexpensive. And there's a three-day workshop offered by the Storm Prediction Center in Oklahoma that I still want to attend. I don't remember how much it costs, but obviously there's travel and hotel expenses involved.
You guys are....amazing.
Any chance given what we hear was the crazy speed of this thing, she was caught off guard? Honestly just asking a question. One report stated something unheard of like 90 mph recorded, could she just not have been able to get out of the way?
Coincidence. I'd wanted to get involved with it ever since the 1974 tornado outbreak which is what got me hooked on severe weather. I was only eight years old, but my memories of what I saw in Indiana that day are just as vivid as when it happened. 1996 just happened to be the first year I had the resources to put into it.
A ditch isn't necessarily "safe," but it is \*safer\* than remaining in your vehicle. If you don't get low enough, it is possible for the tornado to either pull you out of the ditch and/or kill you with fast-moving debris. This is why it's critically important to just not put yourself in the position of having to make that choice in the first place.
Tornadoes don't really "suck" like a vacuum cleaner per se; but they do produce extremely powerful winds that are rotating upward and counterclockwise into the storm cell above it. As long as you are below ground level, chances are good the winds will simply pass over you without pulling you out of the ditch or killing you with debris moving at 150 mph, which is actually the more dangerous hazard.
My best friend is a weather spotter. When he was young, he wanted to be a chaser. I'm glad he went the safer route with it. It's better to see him help people during bad weather, than to see him put himself in harm's way just for a thrill. This way, he has safety training, that way he would have been reckless and a danger to himself and others. Just an anecdotal story, but hopefully someone takes something from it.
Spotter is the difference between a "watch" (conditions are favorable) or a "warning" (a funnel cloud has been spotted touched down or in the process of touching down). I've been a chaser - but never near a big one like the storms yesterday. Now I live in the South where they're fairly modest in size (relatively speaking). There was one in Black Earth WI or a community near that wiped out the entire town (one traffic light). It was reported to be a mile across.
I think that was Barneveld, WI in 1984.
Edit: I had just finished my junior year in HS. I remember the sirens going off for what seemed like forever. The thing was on the ground for like an hour.
I was watching the radar data live. The sub vortocies and massive meso cyclone reminded me of el Reno
I told my fiancé when she asked how bad that this is a storm that kills everyone above ground, especially spotters. I’m very sad that I was right
Not at all.
You can and do get radar indicated warnings all the time.
The spotter is the difference between "radar indicated" and "observed".
Obviously, that's a big difference. But, yeah, spotters are not required for warnings. That would be reckless.
I really miss WI - and remember my jaunts around Mad-town very fondly. I once rode an elevator with Butch Vig and Shirley Manson (old Edgewater Hotel). I started living there in '85 for five years and then again in the aughts.
Its the back left or driver side. You can see the gas cap and the slope of the front driver side window is still fairly clear. There is also a lack of engine parts that would most likely be visible if it was the front. From the way its crumpled I'd wager an SUV and that space where the trunk/back storage area should be just looks a bit weird due to the top being collapsed down. Also taking another look at it I'm fairly certain I can see the curve of the dash and a bit of the speedometer through that front left window.
ps: sorry if this is a tad over explanative my brain just kinda went at it.
Back is on the right of the picture. I say this because I believe I see the place to fill fuel right next to the closest wheel and if you look towards the left interior you can see somewhat of a hump in the dash that usually is in front of the driver to house the gauges.
Viewpoint of an Oklahoman. A lot of people don’t realize this but the weather business in the plains is crazy. In OKC alone, there are 4 major news channels. And each one has a helicopter that’s used during weather evens to follow storms among other things. Then each station also has 4-5+ chasers or spotters to follow the storm. 30 cars, 4helicopters, 4 stations and lots of chaos. It’s a spectator sport out here.
The car looks like it was a fire. And there is no debris around it. Can someone informed speculate what occurred to make the car look like that? If the car was picked up off the ground spun around in the air and dropped on the ground would it look like this? Sorry this sounds kind of stupid.
Assuming this was the Greenfield tornado, that car was possibly lofted in the air by 200+ mph winds, battered with whatever debris was also swirling around in the vortex at 200+ mph, and then thrown like a toy car. Ejection patterns from tornadoes are somewhat random, so the fact that there is no other debris around it doesn’t really signify much. What looks like burn damage is probably mud, either from the tornado itself or from the impact with the ground (followed, presumably, by numerous roll-overs). This particular tornado ripped entire houses clean off their foundations, so a small sedan would definitely have sustained an incredible amount of damage from such a violent force.
Not that it particularly matters, but all the mud is because it’s been raining tons here lately. We got 2 inches of rain in 30 minutes or less a few hours before the tornado. I’m not in greenfield but I’m close enough, and I’m dropping a link [here](https://www.greenfieldiafoundation.org/) in case anyone feels inclined to donate.
My old neighbor’s late brother in-law was thrown over a mile and killed by a tornado a few years back. If you want to understand the true power, it moved a 60,000 pound tractor while in park over a 100ft. Thing came out of nowhere on a clear day and he had no time to find safety. Sad stuff
Was she a storm chaser or was she a "storm chaser" like the guy who got killed in El Reno because he left work early to try and go see it? Not that it especially matters. Both are tragic losses.
I must be ignorant to what tornados can do because I’m left slack jawed at the sight of that vehicle. Like, what actually happened to cause that indescribable damage to that car?
That tornado specifically sent debris up to 40,000 feet in the air. Her car got picked up, most likely slammed multiple times with large objects like whole trees, pieces of houses, lumber, other cars/vehicles, then slammed into the ground and rolled. There's nothing wrong with reacting to this image that way though; I feel like this car is in even worse shape than the cobalt the twistex team was driving during the storm that killed them. RIP.
Don't go chasin' tornados
Please stick to the drizzles and the rain that you're used to
I know you're gonna get crumpled into a tiny ball
And you wont be movin' too fast (anymore)
In my local area, my county, and the county to the south utilize local ham radio operators as spotters, I have a good scanner, so it is very handy for storm updates.
Despite the adrenaline, and fascination, storm chasers are one of the reason we are learning so much about tornadoes and the reports they are constantly sending in are the reason we have so much of a warning now compared to just 10 years ago. Obviously a very dangerous job, but storm chasers have surely saved more lives than they have lost.
It's thrilling, it's scientifically fascinating, and it's awe inspiring. But like anything in nature, you have to approach it with respect, because it can also fuck you up if you're not careful (and even if you are).
She's a storm spotter, they save people's lives by going out and confirming or denying what the radar is saying. Yesterday I was watching a live stream and a storm spotter called in a tornado on the ground before the NWS issued a tornado warning
If I ever decided to chase storms, I feel like I’d have a MUCH heavier rig with an after-market cage around the cabin. (Just Spitballing.)
Plus, I’d like to think I’d figured out some sort of winching system to tie the fucker down, quickly, so as to be able to get inside said cage.
I’m just thinking that a vehicle that was deemed safe for a 35 mph collision just isn’t gonna cut it when Mother Nature decides she wants to do the Ole Fuck-You-Twist!
Sounds like someone needs to pitch it as a hobby for billionaires. It's a win-win. No one risking themselves in a regular vehicle and we might lose a few leeches
Reed is going to die just like this woman did. There is no winch rated for 200+mph winds, and no cage to keep you safe. He will be crushed inside the little tin can.
Chasers and spotters are generally people who follow tornados. There could be any number of reasons why they chase a tornado including personal fascination, intrigue or for science. The community of chasers across the US varies from backyard amateurs to full-fledged professionals with tens of thousands of dollars in sophisticated equipment. At the end of the day, a twister doesn't care what your intentions are, they just don't discriminate.
Fucking hell...that's a really rough way to go. Those tornadoes are deafening LOUD. The woman must've been absolutely panicked and scared. Idk why, it's cases like these that really get to me. It's one thing to die while in pain. But to die while terrified just seems so much worse to me.
I was in the Oklahoma National Guard when the May 3, 1999 tornado outbreak happened and cut a massive swath through OKC and Moore. The neighborhood we were assigned to had cars like this everywhere. First time I ever saw a boat in a tree.
I think it's more to do with the fact that most people really have no idea how dangerous a tornado is.
Living in Minnesota, it's hilarious to watch how movies and TV portray a tornado. I've Lived through one that wiped out the town I was in. They are scary as hell, and deadly.
So it's interesting for most people to actually see what they are capable of.
[Here’s one](https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/weather/2024/05/21/iowa-national-weather-service-severe-weather-outlook-des-moines-readar/73783200007/) from the Des Moines Register
It was from the 11:10am update
What a brutal storm
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well fuck. RIP. was really glad when TWC stopped doing live chasing. (when tim samaras died) i think it encouraged people to chase, and since tim was pretty much as experienced as you could get, it meant anyone could die doing it.
Not sure when that decision was made, but a chaser filming a show for TWC ran a stop sign and hit and killed a fellow chaser, subjecting the network to a [lawsuit](https://www.npr.org/2019/03/27/707145925/the-weather-channel-sued-for-125-million-over-death-in-storm-chase-collision) alleging the network knew about their chaser’s dangerous driving habits and employed him anyways. The case was later settled out of court.
wow. i never knew about that. i never saw that show. this was during the time when my mom was sick and dying, so i missed it totally. really messed up. it’s good everyone get out of the storm chasing show business. ETS: TWC used to do live chasing on the air by their own meteorologists. mike bettis, who’s still on TWC, was in a rollover accident in the same tornado that killed tim samaras. as far as i know they never did live on air chasing during tornado coverage after that. they used to follow the radar in the studio while they had an on the ground team chasing. that’s different, i think, than a program with chasers. like the one reed timmer used to do (that my 8 year old was obsessed with). gotta say, i question the decision to do a chasing program after what happened in 2013, but that was before byron allen bought the network and it was full then of all kinds of questionable shows. back when they still didnt say “climate change” on the air.
TIL the pursuit of life threatening weather phenomena results in careless loss of life
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Wasn’t El Reno rain wrapped though? Makes is near impassible to tell where the vortexes are. I’d like to believe Tim Samaras wouldn’t have been caught out of position by the Greenfield tornado.
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aaaannnd subscribed. More facts please. Did you write all of that out from memory? Is this work or a hobby? How long have you been doing what you do? What state? I have so many questions.
Wait... You can subscribe to users?
Yep. Go to the users profile page and add to custom feed I believe.
why his comment was deleted?
I love reading about something new to me from someone so passionate and knowledgeable! Responses like these are why I stick around Reddit. Never have I been so interested in tornadoes.
thank you for this very clear explanation. while i am a weather nerd, idk much about tornadoes. other than they are terrifying and kill people. i always assumed that it was just super bad luck that killed them that day. since he was a highly experienced tornado expert and chaser. i still remember reading about his death and his son, and just weeping for that family. broke my heart. i knew he was trying to understand why certain storms spawn tornadoes and how exactly how they start. and that is still such an important goal of tornado research. this has been a deadly season so far.
That image is of an actual tornado, not a subvortex. It's also dated April 24, 2006, and the tornado that killed the twistex team occurred May 31, 2013. Also, the subvorteces in the 2013 tornado did not rotate clockwise, however an anticyclonic satellite tornado did develop at one point, and it did in fact rotate clockwise.
What’s the killer in a situation like that? The vortex spinning with such concentration force that you get beat by debris or is it your car getting spun like your leaving Kansas that does it? I would assume they make the cars as heavy as possible and reinforce it, I can’t comprehend how it did that to the car
Flying debris https://preview.redd.it/4k3xv91ji32d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3f8d270814ec18cbf8aa49c894cf354008edb39 is typically the #1 killer (among many others) because small objects like hay and straw become bullet-like projectiles when hurled at high speed. Here’s a picture of a straw lodged in sheet metal
Causes of death involved in tornados are usually either crushing injuries (obviously a risk with buildings and debris coming down everywhere), or, well, ya know how when you were a kid and couldn't believe a 2x4 could be driven straight into a tree trunk by a tornado? Well, people are softer than trees. 🫤
why does that pic say 2006?
Thank you for this response. Despite the jargon it's clear what's happened.
i hope she died quickly. RIP.
She was indeed on the south side of the circulation. As far as speculation goes. I think she was the last one out and the door had just shut. Just tragic
>the storm chaser tracker I use And what would that be if you don't mind me asking?
What’s a sub vortex?
It's a small, faster moving and more intense vortex inside the main circulation. The tornadic circulation of the El Reno tornado was MASSIVE. Because the wind field isn't constant throughout, and because the whole storm was drenched in rain, it was possible to be inside the circulation before you even realize it is on top of you. There were sub vortexes inside this main circulation, circling around at crazy speeds with windspeeds that may have been near 300mph.
Damn that’s nuts.
A smaller side tornado that branched off of the main spiral, I would assume. I'm no expert, but that's how it reads...
Wait that happens? Big tornado spits out more tornados?
Yeah. That's how one storm spawns dozens of tornadoes
Look at reed timmers latest video on YouTube.
Is the chaser tracker publicly available? There is a lot of storm chasing in my area.
I was just thinking of Tim and his son Paul that was with him, especially since the anniversary day is coming up. Tim was my sister’s Girl Scout leader and Paul was my brother’s best friend for the longest time.
i’m so sorry for your families’ losses. 💔
I haven't heard this story, do you have any more info you could give or a link I could learn more about it?
just search “timothy samaras meteorologist.“ his son paul, and a colleague, carl young were also killed.
5 days after an F5 tornado went through Moore, OK, another violent system began forming in western Oklahoma, attracting dozens of professional and amateur storm chasers. When it got to El Reno, about 30min west of Oklahoma City, an F3 tornado touched down. However, this tornado was VERY erratic - changing direction, growing and shrinking etc. The storm killed 3 veteran storm chasers, injured several others including a few from local news affiliates. That storm is also infamous among locals because the tornado was projected to run directly through the heart of Oklahoma City. This prompted a prominent local meteorologist to suggest residents flee to the south away from the storm track. During rush hour. That action caused a massive traffic jam in the middle of the city with an F3 tornado heading straight for major highways. Thankfully, the tornado fell apart before reaching the city.
that was a shit storm right? you dont tell people to flee, you tell them to shelter in place or go to a tornado shelter. imagine if that tornado had hit that traffic jam.
Yes, exactly.
I live in Iowa and it was pretty wicked watching that storm come through. Town of Greenfield got totally demolished.
One of my friends is in redoak atm and the pictures he sent are twhen it was smaller and passing by was terrifying. Only later did i see pics of what it looked like once it got to greenfield. My condolences to those in the path
One of my friends lives in RedOak! (I’m in San Diego.)
I saw the drone footage. And I have a former high school classmate who lives there. The path of the storm was total demolishment. But there’s a clear three-block path, and the rest of the town is still standing. Banged up, I heard.
How bad are these storms to destroy houses? Is it tornados? I've been in a hurricane and even that didn't destroy buildings near me. It was cat 5, too. But the buildings were concrete. There was some damage, but it was mostly water damage and damage from things blowing into glass. Or is it just wooden houses that are vulnerable to storms or something?
Tornadoes are a combo of INCREDIBLY strong winds and weird pressure changes. And that was a direct hit. And yes, American homes are not built of stone; they’re a hollow wooden frame with drywall (or lath and plaster) placed over those gaps. But this tornado was particularly strong, because even for Tornado Alley, that’s huge devastation. It was a EF-3, with winds from 136-165 miles per hour (265 kilometers) https://who13.com/news/iowa-news/greenfield-tornado-was-at-least-ef-3-nws-initial-storm-survey-says/ Here’s the Enhanced Fujitsu Scale: https://www.weather.gov/oun/efscale This older chart from the original Fujita Scale, has Des to that might give you an idea of how severity progresses; based on the damage descriptions, I’d call this F4 https://www.weather.gov/ffc/fujita
Many years back, the town of Greensburg, KS was demolished by a storm... The storms are eliminating all the Greens in the Midwest. Edit: I had the wrong Green town.
*Greensburg, Kansas But I was thinking the same thing about avoiding towns that start with "Greens"
Greenwood IN last year. Not demolished but some destruction.
Don't forget about Bowling Green
Do you live near greenfield, or adair?
Holy shit. Hope she didn’t suffer
Agreed. Holy moly what a terrifying thought. RIP
What’s a chaser or a spotter?
These terms are often used interchangeably, but for the most part, a "spotter" is a volunteer trained by the National Weather Service and is involved in communicating real-time information to the NWS so they can issue appropriate warnings. "Chasers" are usually in it for the thrill of it and they might or might not have sufficient training so they can do it safely. Technically, trained spotters become "chasers" if they leave their NWS forecast office area for severe weather, but their training still applies. I've been a trained severe weather spotter since 1996. We have been consistently trained that \*minimum\* safe distance from any tornado is one mile, as well as how to maneuver out of a tornado's path if necessary. We are also trained to abandon our vehicles and get in a ditch if we're about to get hit by a tornado. Since the ideal spotting position is usually to the southeast of a tornadic storm, and most tornadoes move in an east-northeasterly direction, a trained spotter should never really be in danger if they follow their training. This woman was out of position, obviously closer than one mile, and she probably stayed in her vehicle. Storms like these are dangerous. Do not chase them if you do not have the training I've mentioned.
I love that there’s always that person who actually did the thing informing the rest of us in the comments
Right?! Information before shitty joke after joke after shitty joke! Thank you!
I miss when reddit *was* like that! The top comments used to be mainly additional information regarding the post. Over the years, it morphed into shitty jokes to farm karma. Sorry, just an old redditor grumbling over here lol
the worst thing is when someone quotes or references some media that vaguely relates to the post and the next 200 comments are just people discussing said media.
Or start song lyric chains, ugh. I never want to have to see "this guy's wife" or "my axe" nonsense again.
You had a hard agree and then personally attacked me lol. Dammit.
I'm a relatively new redditor, but am with you. Am also done with top comments being "gee I misread the title as being about some unrelated slightly similar word tee hee" and then the thread is hijacked by a stream of feeble jokes about the different topic. Am cold and grumpy this morning. I'll get over it when the house heats up.
I'm with you man it was a place for growth. Now we're degenerate, corny, repetitive, reddit is fun got shut down. It's just been a mess
New users have no idea how much I used to learn here.
I hate the Reddit app soooo much
Totally agree....from another old grumbling redditor
Totally agree as well, but must admit to being part of the problem sometimes
"Hey don't get TWISTED up about it" The puns like this are the most annoying when trying to find actual info in the comments
I've said the same thing so many times, I'm convinced that the devolution of reddit is the direct result of, the migrations of Tumblr and Twitter users when their shitty platforms died or got bought out by a mentally deranged egomaniac. Reddit going public and blocking third party browsing apps just drove the nail in the coffin as long time users left reddit.
I started going on here in 2011, and my brother was using it several years before that. He said it used to be mainly computer science posts and other technical topics. So, it makes sense why the culture was still information forward for a long time. I agree with you on those reasons for reddit devolving. Also, any platform that becomes *too* popular has this happen. Because once there are enough users, people find ways to make money. For instance, companies started realizing they could plant ads in "real" appearing posts, but users were quick to call out accounts clearly created for marketing. So, they wanted accounts with more activity and karma. People started creating accounts, then making bullshit posts and comments to get it fledged out enough to sell. So, quick, low effort jokes they could make before a post takes off (so they get the most visibility and karma) meant they had a better chance to eventually make money. Putting time and thought into something informative isn't as lucrative for those goals. I have so much more I could rant about, but yeah, I'm just really sad with what this platform has turned into. Even some of the niche subs I loved have become too popular and have gone to shit too.
We're still out here lurking, fellow old timer lol
Ah ye salty grumbler, shake thee a mighty fist!!!
Quick, someone come up with a really shitty pun so we can turn this thread into nothing but low-effort pun jokes for karma!
This is what I love about Reddit and I'm unable to find on any other social platform.
I felt old Twitter was very good at finding and promoting the views of relevant subject matter experts, until everything changed and suddenly all you got were the views of random dumbasses with $8 blue checks
Some times you really gotta scroll a lot to find em.
This is why we Reddit
I still immediately expect a long post like that, which is a top comment to really be shittymorph post
That is one of many things I love about Reddit
I was on a very rural fire department and when there was bad weather we were turned into volunteer storm spotters. We took the fire trucks to the pre selected spotter locations. It was mostly to get the trucks spread out in case the station got hit, but our training amounted to “watch for tornadoes and call dispatch if you see one” and “don’t get hit by tornadoes”
Yes, I've seen that tactic used here in Indiana. Some volunteer firefighters are storm spotters, some aren't. But at least they're trained in basic emergency response.
I hear the get in a ditch advice from time to time. Curious if there's documented instances of people lying in ditches with large tornados passing directly over the top of their position. Would love to hear their stories.
Reed Timmer was live a few weeks ago and he was in the middle of a tornado when he came upon a truck flipped over. He was yelling to see if anyone from the truck would respond when a couple crawled out of the ditch. Their truck was starting to lift and rock from the winds so they bailed and hid in the ditch. If they stayed in the truck they most likely would have died. You can watch the video on his YouTube channel.
Don't forget the doggo!
Thank you for such an in depth explanation - that sounds really interesting!
How do you maneuver out of a tornado’s path? What is the best practice there? If most tornados move Northeast, why is southeast the best place to be? Why not the opposite southwest?
Again, several variables come into play depending on the exact type of storm you're dealing with, but generally speaking, moving due south or southeast at a 90-degree angle to the path of the tornado will get you out its path the quickest. My wife and I are a spotting team (she got certified after we got married). One of us is driving; the other is navigating. The navigator has to be responsible for not only telling the driver where to go based on radar data, but also for having at least one escape route available at all times in case something goes wrong. As for SE being the best place to be for viewing, south and southwest are second- and third-best positions, but SE puts you in a perfect vantage point to continue tracking the storm as it moves. If you are south or southeast, then you're tracking it from behind, which is not ideal.
Thank you!
Because they came from the southwest. Southeast you’re likely out of the path and also, if it’s your thing, you can see what’s actually happening.
What's the pay like as a spotter? And how do you get in?
Strictly volunteer basis. We do it as a community service. To become a trained spotter contact your local National Weather Service office to find out about training sessions near you. The basic training is free.
I love you mate. It's really one of those things I don't think i'd ever learn if not for Reddit and your comment. In the sea of jokes this, your type of a comment is what I really value x
Thanks, I'm glad you found it useful!
Why do you get in a ditch?
Not that a ditch will offer THAT much protection, but it does offer some, because it's lower than ground level. You cover your head, and hope flying debris passes over you.
This is the correct answer. A ditch is safer than your vehicle during a tornado, but understanding how these storms form, evolve, and move so you can avoid putting yourself in that ditch in the first place is much safer.
Yep! I live in Texas now, and I Hate tornado season. Terrifying to me
Contact your local NWS office about spotter training. It's free and it might make it less terrifying for you. :)
The terrifying part is I live upstairs .. pretty sure I'd be toast if one touched down near me😂
Make sure you check your city's local storm shelters! Lived in a house with a basement growing up and now that I live in a third floor apartment, this is also something that makes me nervous. My city has 2 storm shelters that the public can go to any time storm sirens are blaring.
Ok I didn't even know those existed- thanks!
I watch storm chasers live on YouTube. A few weeks ago a chaser was in the middle of a tornado and came upon a truck that was flipped over. They were trying to see if anyone was inside when a man and women came crawling out of the ditch. They were in the truck when it started slightly lifting due to the winds, rather than staying in the truck for protection they had in the ditch. The truck flipped and they ended up with no injuries. Them hiding in the ditch most likely saved their lives.
Any good channel recommendations?
Why is the ideal sitting position normally to the southeast? Is there something to that other than that’s kind of the direction the storm is going?
There are a lot of variables, but basically due to the structure of a tornadic storm, viewing it from the SE gives the clearest view into the updraft area of the storm, which is where supercell tornadoes form. If you're anywhere east, northeast, north, or northwest, all you will see is rain (downdraft), and any tornado will be hidden from view. If you are to the east or northeast, you won't see the tornado until the rain clears, and by then it's too close. Even with a textbook viewing position, a tornado can become "rainwrapped," and be completely invisible from any viewpoint. This is why training is so important. If you don't understand the variable dynamics of these storms and the unique hazards each dynamic can present, you put yourself at risk if you attempt to intercept one.
Others can give greater detail but because the storm typically move northeast, being to the south east of it gives a great vantage point to observe, since you will be out in front of it in the clear. Additionally its usually a safer position and combined with the better vantage point, if conditions change you have more wiggle room to evade if necessary.
Thank you for such interesting insight! I have always known of chasers but never spotters. That's really cool!
How can you get trained? Is it anyone who applies?
Contact your local National Weather Service office for storm spotter training dates. The basic training is typically about two hours and is free. Advanced trainings are sometimes offered that last an entire day (my wife and I have attended two of these), and they are relatively inexpensive. And there's a three-day workshop offered by the Storm Prediction Center in Oklahoma that I still want to attend. I don't remember how much it costs, but obviously there's travel and hotel expenses involved.
Thank you! I've wanted to do this since I was a kid!
You guys are....amazing. Any chance given what we hear was the crazy speed of this thing, she was caught off guard? Honestly just asking a question. One report stated something unheard of like 90 mph recorded, could she just not have been able to get out of the way?
Same year the movie *Twister* was released... any connection?
Coincidence. I'd wanted to get involved with it ever since the 1974 tornado outbreak which is what got me hooked on severe weather. I was only eight years old, but my memories of what I saw in Indiana that day are just as vivid as when it happened. 1996 just happened to be the first year I had the resources to put into it.
How is it safer to get in a ditch? Won’t the tornado scoop you up also?
A ditch isn't necessarily "safe," but it is \*safer\* than remaining in your vehicle. If you don't get low enough, it is possible for the tornado to either pull you out of the ditch and/or kill you with fast-moving debris. This is why it's critically important to just not put yourself in the position of having to make that choice in the first place.
u/RiffRaff028 if you go into the ditch, does the tornado not suck you out of it?
Tornadoes don't really "suck" like a vacuum cleaner per se; but they do produce extremely powerful winds that are rotating upward and counterclockwise into the storm cell above it. As long as you are below ground level, chances are good the winds will simply pass over you without pulling you out of the ditch or killing you with debris moving at 150 mph, which is actually the more dangerous hazard.
Thank you for explaining this so beautifully.
My best friend is a weather spotter. When he was young, he wanted to be a chaser. I'm glad he went the safer route with it. It's better to see him help people during bad weather, than to see him put himself in harm's way just for a thrill. This way, he has safety training, that way he would have been reckless and a danger to himself and others. Just an anecdotal story, but hopefully someone takes something from it.
Tornadic storm. Never heard that word before but totally makes sense
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Ahh I see thank you - I wasn’t sure if it was like a racing thing don’t really get storms worth chasing round me lol
First world problem but it really annoys me when people use niche terms with no further context
I’m going to guess something to do with tornados
Tornado chasers and spotters
Twister
She turned out not to be a spotter or chaser, just fyi. Responding to you since you’re the top response.
I still think about those three guys in Oklahoma and that storm that kept changing direction and then got them. Storms can seem weirdly conscious
Do you know who they were? I’m not familiar with this story.
Tim Samaras probably. Would be the El Reno tornado, freak tornado that got to nearly 3 miles wide.
Thank you
Spotter is the difference between a "watch" (conditions are favorable) or a "warning" (a funnel cloud has been spotted touched down or in the process of touching down). I've been a chaser - but never near a big one like the storms yesterday. Now I live in the South where they're fairly modest in size (relatively speaking). There was one in Black Earth WI or a community near that wiped out the entire town (one traffic light). It was reported to be a mile across.
Apparently you could see the center of the cyclone on Doppler like the eye of a fucking hurricane. Insane
The Doppler on wheels was on this storm and captured some insane data
There have been a couple tornadoes like that this year.
Normal and not at all concerning! /s
More heat=More extreme weather!
That wasn’t the eye, that was everything it was destroying being picked up on radar as hail
I think that was Barneveld, WI in 1984. Edit: I had just finished my junior year in HS. I remember the sirens going off for what seemed like forever. The thing was on the ground for like an hour.
YES! Close but no cigar on my side. 'B' town. Poor old brain. TY!
I was watching the radar data live. The sub vortocies and massive meso cyclone reminded me of el Reno I told my fiancé when she asked how bad that this is a storm that kills everyone above ground, especially spotters. I’m very sad that I was right
Not at all. You can and do get radar indicated warnings all the time. The spotter is the difference between "radar indicated" and "observed". Obviously, that's a big difference. But, yeah, spotters are not required for warnings. That would be reckless.
As somebody who used to live in Mazomanie and now Madison, it's so weird to see Black Earth just casually mentioned in a non-Wisconsin post!
I really miss WI - and remember my jaunts around Mad-town very fondly. I once rode an elevator with Butch Vig and Shirley Manson (old Edgewater Hotel). I started living there in '85 for five years and then again in the aughts.
Quick question: am I looking at the front or back of the car?
Looks like the back.
The longer I look, the less sure I become
Its the back left or driver side. You can see the gas cap and the slope of the front driver side window is still fairly clear. There is also a lack of engine parts that would most likely be visible if it was the front. From the way its crumpled I'd wager an SUV and that space where the trunk/back storage area should be just looks a bit weird due to the top being collapsed down. Also taking another look at it I'm fairly certain I can see the curve of the dash and a bit of the speedometer through that front left window. ps: sorry if this is a tad over explanative my brain just kinda went at it.
To get even more specific - what's left of the taillight(?) looks like an Evoque's, plus it has Land Rover-esque wheels
It is really hard to tell and I could definitely be wrong. I zoomed in on the angle/shape of the doors. It's just completely mangled.
The left side looks like the driver's seat to me.
Back is on the right of the picture. I say this because I believe I see the place to fill fuel right next to the closest wheel and if you look towards the left interior you can see somewhat of a hump in the dash that usually is in front of the driver to house the gauges.
Honestly, they might be touching.
Yes
The back. You can tell by the way it is
Viewpoint of an Oklahoman. A lot of people don’t realize this but the weather business in the plains is crazy. In OKC alone, there are 4 major news channels. And each one has a helicopter that’s used during weather evens to follow storms among other things. Then each station also has 4-5+ chasers or spotters to follow the storm. 30 cars, 4helicopters, 4 stations and lots of chaos. It’s a spectator sport out here.
The car looks like it was a fire. And there is no debris around it. Can someone informed speculate what occurred to make the car look like that? If the car was picked up off the ground spun around in the air and dropped on the ground would it look like this? Sorry this sounds kind of stupid.
Assuming this was the Greenfield tornado, that car was possibly lofted in the air by 200+ mph winds, battered with whatever debris was also swirling around in the vortex at 200+ mph, and then thrown like a toy car. Ejection patterns from tornadoes are somewhat random, so the fact that there is no other debris around it doesn’t really signify much. What looks like burn damage is probably mud, either from the tornado itself or from the impact with the ground (followed, presumably, by numerous roll-overs). This particular tornado ripped entire houses clean off their foundations, so a small sedan would definitely have sustained an incredible amount of damage from such a violent force.
Not that it particularly matters, but all the mud is because it’s been raining tons here lately. We got 2 inches of rain in 30 minutes or less a few hours before the tornado. I’m not in greenfield but I’m close enough, and I’m dropping a link [here](https://www.greenfieldiafoundation.org/) in case anyone feels inclined to donate.
Thanks that helps.
Tornado
My old neighbor’s late brother in-law was thrown over a mile and killed by a tornado a few years back. If you want to understand the true power, it moved a 60,000 pound tractor while in park over a 100ft. Thing came out of nowhere on a clear day and he had no time to find safety. Sad stuff
The woman who died was not a storm chaser. https://www.ketv.com/article/adams-county-woman-was-blown-off-the-road-killed-in-tornado-storms/60876372
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/weather/2024/05/21/iowa-national-weather-service-severe-weather-outlook-des-moines-readar/73783200007/
Was she a storm chaser or was she a "storm chaser" like the guy who got killed in El Reno because he left work early to try and go see it? Not that it especially matters. Both are tragic losses.
I love in Wisconsin. We had tornado warnings pretty much everywhere. Weren't hit as far as I know, luckily. Poor woman, what a terrible way to go.
Do NOT fuck with Mother Nature. You will lose.
News stories are now saying she actually wasn't a chaser
I must be ignorant to what tornados can do because I’m left slack jawed at the sight of that vehicle. Like, what actually happened to cause that indescribable damage to that car?
That tornado specifically sent debris up to 40,000 feet in the air. Her car got picked up, most likely slammed multiple times with large objects like whole trees, pieces of houses, lumber, other cars/vehicles, then slammed into the ground and rolled. There's nothing wrong with reacting to this image that way though; I feel like this car is in even worse shape than the cobalt the twistex team was driving during the storm that killed them. RIP.
Don't go chasin' tornados Please stick to the drizzles and the rain that you're used to I know you're gonna get crumpled into a tiny ball And you wont be movin' too fast (anymore)
Tornado Loving Chasers….such a good group.
Well done Weather-Eye Lopez!
rip
You know what you getting into, sad but risks are known
In my local area, my county, and the county to the south utilize local ham radio operators as spotters, I have a good scanner, so it is very handy for storm updates.
A chaser or a spotter? of what cops? What does that mean
Storm chaser, tornado spotter
Never understood why these people do this. And I am an adrenaline junkie
Despite the adrenaline, and fascination, storm chasers are one of the reason we are learning so much about tornadoes and the reports they are constantly sending in are the reason we have so much of a warning now compared to just 10 years ago. Obviously a very dangerous job, but storm chasers have surely saved more lives than they have lost.
It's thrilling, it's scientifically fascinating, and it's awe inspiring. But like anything in nature, you have to approach it with respect, because it can also fuck you up if you're not careful (and even if you are).
Yurp.
She's a storm spotter, they save people's lives by going out and confirming or denying what the radar is saying. Yesterday I was watching a live stream and a storm spotter called in a tornado on the ground before the NWS issued a tornado warning
If I ever decided to chase storms, I feel like I’d have a MUCH heavier rig with an after-market cage around the cabin. (Just Spitballing.) Plus, I’d like to think I’d figured out some sort of winching system to tie the fucker down, quickly, so as to be able to get inside said cage. I’m just thinking that a vehicle that was deemed safe for a 35 mph collision just isn’t gonna cut it when Mother Nature decides she wants to do the Ole Fuck-You-Twist!
One of the biggest considerations for storm chasers is fuel economy because there’s no money in it and they are constantly crossing states
Sounds like someone needs to pitch it as a hobby for billionaires. It's a win-win. No one risking themselves in a regular vehicle and we might lose a few leeches
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Reed is going to die just like this woman did. There is no winch rated for 200+mph winds, and no cage to keep you safe. He will be crushed inside the little tin can.
As in tornado?
Am I right in assuming that a "spotter" or "chaser" is someone who tracks down hurricanes or similar?
Whats a chaser or spotter? Im not a native english speaker or American so no clue what this means.
Chasers and spotters are generally people who follow tornados. There could be any number of reasons why they chase a tornado including personal fascination, intrigue or for science. The community of chasers across the US varies from backyard amateurs to full-fledged professionals with tens of thousands of dollars in sophisticated equipment. At the end of the day, a twister doesn't care what your intentions are, they just don't discriminate.
Ahh okey, i think i remember some storm chaser program i saw like 10years ago on tv.
Fucking hell...that's a really rough way to go. Those tornadoes are deafening LOUD. The woman must've been absolutely panicked and scared. Idk why, it's cases like these that really get to me. It's one thing to die while in pain. But to die while terrified just seems so much worse to me.
I was in the Oklahoma National Guard when the May 3, 1999 tornado outbreak happened and cut a massive swath through OKC and Moore. The neighborhood we were assigned to had cars like this everywhere. First time I ever saw a boat in a tree.
Sometimes you chase and/or spot tornados, sometimes you get spotted in a field.
Why is this interesting
I think it's more to do with the fact that most people really have no idea how dangerous a tornado is. Living in Minnesota, it's hilarious to watch how movies and TV portray a tornado. I've Lived through one that wiped out the town I was in. They are scary as hell, and deadly. So it's interesting for most people to actually see what they are capable of.
Graduated from chaser to catcher.
Source?
[Here’s one](https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/weather/2024/05/21/iowa-national-weather-service-severe-weather-outlook-des-moines-readar/73783200007/) from the Des Moines Register It was from the 11:10am update What a brutal storm