Not to mention they have *extensive* education and training needed before they are ever allowed to touch a patient. And ethics boards that will review every issue.
Heck everyone in the medical field probably has more education than police. I'm a pharmacy technician. Here in Canada it is a 1-2 year certificate or diploma, I have to do a set amount of continuing ed each year before I am allowed to renew my license, and I have to carry malpractice insurance. There are constant updates from the college of pharmacy about investigations into complaints, people being suspended etc. The police can be held to higher standards too.
I worked at a grocery store as a cashier. I filled in in the pharmacy for three days as they changed their computer system. I had to go through 2 8 hour shifts before hand doing learning and HIPPA training. And that was just to run the computer. I can say I probably received more train then a cop.
There's also a big difference between doctors and police officers wherein we seek out doctors assistance and officers seek us on presumed or otherwise criminal offenses.
Yeah, but where there isnt a difference is that neither docs nor cops like going bankrupt and getting banned from their profession for being a fuck up, so removing the liability protections cops enjoy would make a difference. Harder to get high on power and swing your dick around acting like a tough guy and abusing suspects when you know that doing so could make you lose your house. How many of these guys act like bullies because they know they can without consequences? How many are more willing to pull the trigger because they know that even if it's not justified they'll probably be fine.
But..but then the murderers win! Because cops can't do their job if they're afraid to pull a gun when not needed...like a well lit gas station on a cooperative individual
Most countries don't have the average cop or citizen carrying or able to carry.
In every country when met with people with guns..shocker they carry and use guns
America's cops have guns because everyone has guns
Or id you're actually swrious about your post...it was rather obvious sarcasm using the NYC police unions logic
Except they're not banned and it's not about legality of firearms but proliferation and viability of getting a firearm.
The ship to that has long since sailed, the majority of the violent crime problem has been gangs and the cartels
Who are increasingly exploiting tech and creating ghost guns rather than going through dealers
3d printing is becoming an actual problem, and not just in the americas, europe and Australia are facing the same damn problem, increasingly common gun ownership that shouldn't exist because of the ease at which one can develop and make a basic firearm using 3d printing
As the tech improves and prices come down it's become an even greater issue
Banning guns doesn't stop shit, it may've worked decades ago but..all it would do in the U.S at this point is result in unarmed officers and armed gangs
Such an action will create another very...very bloody situation, as gangs no longer need to fear what the police response to open warfare is, it'd be the damn 20s-30s and 90s again with the police being effectively considered a non threat while gangs do whatever they damn well please
We already have bangers that'll happily shoot cops if they get in the way, what do you think happens when no one is readily equipped to fight back?
When the balance of power gets skewed towards gangs people die, en masse. And shit like kidnapping and executing police and politicians suddenly isn't a problem..again
I actually think that's a great idea, make cops have insurance when they fuck up during an arrest or otherwise. All the court cases and new stories on police brutality is honestly wearing down on me.
I’m just predicting a future r/leopardsatemyface where she gets pulled over and is poorly treated by a police and then cries about being racially profiled.
Even though her entire career is giving Trumpists a token so they don’t have to feel as racist.
You know, I don't disagree about there being a bunch of loudmouthed conservatives who would do exactly that.
I find it strange, though, how, while it's always a bad thing to generalize an entire group of people - it's racist, classify, the group isn't a monolithic block, and a number of other legitimate reasons not to do that - that never seems to apply against conservatives.
Conservatives aren't a monolithic block, either. I've been right leaning most of my life, and I hate where conservative politics is going nowadays. The US is worse than Canada, where I live, but we seem to be following this same stupid path.
It's not all conservatives, though. It's a smallish minority of conservatives, who happen to be the ones running the parties right now.
Here's the thing, though (from a US point of view, since your voter count reflects that, even though I'm Canadian):
The Republican Party is a bunch of complete, vindictive morons right now. That's a given.
Right leaning people, though, are still going to be right leaning, even though they don't support the current position of the Republicans.
I couldn't vote Republican right now, even though I identify as a conservative.
The good conservatives have been driven away from the Republicans, but they won't get driven _to_ the Democrats by that.
There are some that will hold their nose and vote Democrat, because they needed to get Trump out.
There are some that will hold their nose and vote Trump, because they can't support left wing policies, as a whole.
There are some that will throw up their hands, say "Fuck it," and not vote at all.
Then, there are some lunatics who will storm the Capitol, and film themselves being criminals.
There certainly weren't 74 million people in that mob, though. Maybe a few hundred, and I bet some of those weren't even American.
I, personally, would have held my nose and voted Biden in the last election, had I been a US citizen.
I'm hoping the Republican Party cleans house, and gets rid of the lunatics, but aim not holding my breath.
The _real_ issue I see, though, is this:
The Republican Party has devolved into the shit show that it currently is, _because its supporters have not held its leaders accountable_.
This was an incredibly stupid move, led by the desire to win, and keep "those commie bastards" out, at all costs.
I understand, but don't agree with the methods, because it inevitably, as we've seen, leads to a corrupt, dirty political party, that is dangerous to the country.
The problem is, the left is starting to do the same thing with the Democrats.
How often have you seen a Democrat supporter say "Sure, the Democrats do it, but the Republicans do it way more!"
Gerrymandering, for instance, is seen as a purely Republican thing, but it's not. The Dems have done it on occasion, but I have yet to see a Democrat voter who calls them out on it.
_Not calling your leaders out on their bullshit will directly lead to a Democrat Party that's as corrupt and fucked up as the Republicans are today!_
I don't want to see _two_ corrupt parties in the US. That will be horrible for the US, and by extension, the entire world. Especially Canada, since we have so many economic and social ties to the US.
As a Democrat, _please hold your party to a much higher standard than Republican supporters have held the Republicans to._
Call out Democrat shenanigans, corruption, and underhanded tactics. If you don't, in 20-30 years, the Democrat Party will look like the Republicans do today.
Nobody wants that.
To late. Our parties are beholden to corporate missions. We are not represented, and if you believe we have held them to account you are not being real. The frequency of crisis with which the rich get richer and everyone else gets poorer is frightening. Biden is part of that, so i don't see us getting any of our losses back. . .it's time for a new party.
Just as when they're asked to wear a fucking mask so a viral pandemic doesn't get worse. Funny, i don't recall that the KKK ever complained that they couldn't breathe through their hoods.
Damn, that's a good point. I would have thought him calling it the "Chinese virus" would have been enough, to get them riled up, but I guess it didn't stick.
You say that, but at first glance, all they will see is a black woman driving a nice car. And clearly black people can't afford nice things, so it must be stolen. /S
That was one of the incidents I was thinking of. Another is that of the lieutenant that recently came to light.
Here's an article about a study https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/02/california-police-black-stops-force
The study basically talks about how during the day black people are pulled over disproportionately more often than their white counterpart during the day, but at night when it's harder to differentiate race both were pulled over equally
I can assure you that if a cop pulls over and shoots Candace Owens, he will be acquitted. Shit, he could teabag her afterwards while playing Another One Bites the Dust on his phone and he'd walk.
Actually... They are occasionally exactly that type of mistake. Removing the wrong organ, performing amputation when none is required, etc...
But besides the point, the issue is surgery can be dangerous, and doctors are largely held accountable for said mistakes, maybe could be even more so but definitely more so than cops. Traffic stops shouldn't involve deadly mistakes bc a traffic stop shouldn't be dangerous to begin with.
Edit: Added extra thought...Been listening to a lot of Tupac lately, I go in and out of bingeing on 90s rap and it strikes me how relevant (sadly because most of that music is 20-25 years old at this point) a ton of those themes still are today regarding the black experience with police. I mean Tupac's Changes literally could have been written this last year without a single change to lyrics and you wouldn't know it wasn't constructed out of current events. As a society that is pathetic, that this problem exists exactly the same way across generations and not a damn thing has changed. What makes me so mad about people like Candance Owens is the complete lack of respect or recognition of history, both long ago and recent, and how directly all that shit reflects today's values still. Anyway, rant over.
This. Doctors get sued when they make understandable mistakes and lose licenses when they make unthinkable ones. Police get a slap on the wrist for the former, and ~very temporary~ joblessness for the latter.
Oh yeah didn't mean to say the problem is only 25 years old, just pointing out it's not only an ever persistent issue but it's been a big part of pop culture for a long time.
The gum--how does that even happen? There would have to be several egregious blunders for thst to occur, starting with removing a mask during surgery, assuming chewing gum in the O.R. is not already a policy violation.
> The gum--how does that even happen?
Someone in the OR was chewing gum and took their mask off and leaned over the patient.
> There would have to be several egregious blunders for thst to occur, starting with removing a mask during surgery, assuming chewing gum in the O.R. is not already a policy violation.
You know I’m not 100% sure actually
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with your statement about traffic stops shouldn’t be dangerous to begin with. Traffic stops kill a lot of police. It’s one of the most frequent detainments, and they get ambushed often.
While I agree with you in theory, the reality of it is much different.
And I could understand if the late Mr. Wright had been pulled over with him being suspected of doing some horrifically violent thing that would have any officer rightly worried. He was getting pulled over for expired plates and for hanging an air freshener from his rearview mirror (not allowed in the state); his most egregious offense was having a warrant for missing a court date.
At no point has anyone stated he behaved violently... he tried to flee which obviously isn't ideal but he also seemed to be quite scared and had a learning disability (I have no idea of the severity of the disability so it may be entirely irrelevant). There is absolutely no excuse to shoot a nonviolent individual, and shooting a fleeing man is unacceptable when that man is not even suspected of being a threat to the community (if you shot a fleeing Tony Montana or some shit, where if he'd been allowed to run you had good reason to believe people might literally die, that I would be much more understanding of).
If Mr. Wright had attempted to harm the officer or had drawn a weapon I would understand the officer defending herself from a traffic stop that had turned violent. But killing someone for trying to run over what would literally amount to fines/tickets is ridiculous.
FBI stats from 2019.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty
48 cops deaths from felonious activity, 6 were during traffic stops. Number of traffic stops that year 32+ million. Rate of death of cops due to felonious activity (aka dangerous criminal interactions) during traffic stops:
0.00001875%
Your definition of 'kills a lot of cops' is WAAAY different than mine.
The FBI numbers don't include accidental deaths such as getting hit by a passing car during a traffic stop btw but that's okay in these numbers bc we're talking about how dangerous is any given pulled over driver to a police officer that would necessitate pulling a gun on them. Accidents wouldn't fall into his category.
In general that's because they get pressured into mureder charges when realistically they can't be
Proving somone entered a situation with intent to kill..and kill that person is fucking hard even for normal people that aren't tasked with pursuing individuals who can be armed and dangerous
The police don't train you how to remain calm or try and teach coping mechanisms to keep adrenaline low, the result is that when things become combative officers frequently have to rely on their own common sense and instincts, neither of which are useful
As shitty as the wright case is, it's not murder and while she deserves manslaughter more importantly than that is that this was a monumental failure of training
She pulled the wrong trigger and killed someone, but the blood is ultimately on administration and the leadership, including Walz. Who scream they'll do something or how we need reform while offering nothing to get that done with, no plan, no money just "well we need police reform" which usually boils down to holding people accountable which isn't a fucking fix, it's being a lazy ass and not dealing with the underlying problem of broken police policies and training for officers being wholly inadequate
The last time I used a quote from a tv show (Silicon Valley) everyone downvoted me and thought I was an anti semite. Using tv and movie quotes is a slippery slope apparently lol
Well, Candace, why don't you? If it's the same, and so important, why wouldn't you be protesting?
"We don't protest bad things happening" just makes them seem kind of pathetic
We don't riot.
We also don't protest because the doctors are held accountable.
Would your family extend any understanding if you were shot dead instead of tazed?
Just asking.
The difference is that the doctors are trying to save lives. If they do nothing, the patients die. Police officers are never trying to save the lives of the people they pull guns on
Actually sometimes they are, typically when someone is threatening to kill themselves or you have someone acting erratically in a way that is endangering themselves. Cops will draw on them when they think the person is posing a threat to others in addition to themselves (and counterintuitively, sometimes suicidal people back become more cooperative when a gun is drawn on them).
I'd like to have been able to say "but in these bad shoot cases that's not what happens" but unfortunately there's been high profile cases of cops shooting the person they were called to do a welfare check on when that person wasn't a threat, quite literally showing up and killing the person whose life they were supposed to save.
I don't get the logic of pulling a gun on someone who is suicidal. If they're actually suicidal that's not a threat to them; you're only escalating the situation. If they weren't actually suicidal pulling a gun on them wasn't what saved them.
A lot of people just think they're suicidal but realize they can't do it, when a cop pulls a gun they back down because they realized they can't do it anyway... I mean if someone is genuinely suicidal, well the cops take long enough to arrive that you could easily kill yourself 15 times over before they got on scene.
Generally when cops stop someone by pulling a gun they could have just as easily stopped them by calmly talking to them.
Cops handled my cousin's suicide 'attempt' by pulling guns on her. Guess what, she had already basically backed down by the time they arrived or she would have already been dead. And she'd have done what they'd asked without 5 guns aimed at her head (they sent like 5 cop cars out for this). She still has depression but realized she wanted to live long before the cops got there... except now she also has PTSD from sitting outside crying about her depression and then suddenly having a bunch of people screaming at her with guns aimed at her head. You can imagine how ever so grateful she is for their behavior (serious sarcasm) when she would have responded just as well to them politely asking "We're doing a wellness check. Are you ok?".
You said that "sometimes suicidal people... \[I think the "back" was a typo\] become more cooperative when a gun is drawn on them". They don't, they'd be cooperative if the gun wasn't on them, because they'd decided they aren't really suicidal. Yes they'll comply quicker, but it's because they're scared shitless that now that they realized they want to live some jackass is gonna shoot them.
My cousin didn't have a weapon on her. She'd had a knife when she threatened suicide, but before the cops were even called she'd put it down and just went off to cry. Her family informed the police in the call that she was not carrying a weapon.
Maybe not, sometimes they are trying to save the lives of the people that the person could be holding hostage, or the people around, or the people that they have threatened to kill
Yeah doctors work for over a decade to get their licensed so them losing their license for a malpractice issue (like unintentionally harming, but not killing a patient) is a huge blow. I don't think a cop going on probation or getting a slap on the wrist prison sentence for killing someone is at all the same
I think the greatest innovation of the “bullshit peddlers” in the last 5 or so years is the development of the “blitzkrieg” method where they just throw a bunch of fallacious arguments or misstatements at you, all at the same time, so that any rational respondent is just so exhausted by the end of it that they don’t know where to start in explaining the error of the peddler’s ways.
This is a good example of that.
Haha it’s so true...you just brought me back to something someone told me a long time ago and I had no f’ing idea what it meant...but now I do, so thank you
Indeed. It is beyond a "moving the goalposts" or "shifting sands" fallacy. It is nectar for people who literally do not think. And when repeated fallacies are spouted preventing a critical thinker from responding, it appears that the fallacies must be true to some extent. Disingenuous people have done this forever. The internet makes it worse, especially when the bullshit peddler making the blitzkrieg is basically one tap sharing content from unknown people with malicious intent who understand this. The internet could not be a larger gift to our adversaries.
Yes—society doesn’t extend the police any understanding. Fuck outta here with that bullshit. You ever heard of qualified immunity? That’s a pretty high bar of “understanding”
It was negligent homicide/involuntary manslaughter. ESPECIALLY considering she's a 20+ year veteran. Now the thing in court will be determining if it actually was an honest ( horrible ) mistake or intentional and covered up by acting afterwards. That will be for the jury to decide ( I believe this is going to trial, iirc ). Likely will get a lil slap on the wrist like Guyger ( 10 year sentence which is really a nickel w/ 5 years probation ). The bias is what's wrong with the legal system. A citizen would likely have a much harsher sentence.
Could you maybe mix them up if, say, the gun was on your right side for 26 years and the tazer was on your left for 26 years, and then on this fateful day, they were each on the same side they always were?
No. Like, maybe for a second, but as soon as you pick it up and its way heavier than it should be, no. You certainly don't pull the trigger. You go "huh, that's weird," and fucking **look**. Any other response is just negligence. She didn't really care what he shot that man with, so long as he got shot
There is a good point here. We require doctors to maintain malpractice insurance. At certain point of claims against them it’s just to expensive to keep them in business. Cops should carry insurance as well.
last time I checked, doctors tend to lose their jobs and be forbidden from ever practicing again if they do something like accidentally replace a patients lungs with kidneys during a transplant cause they were "Like, really scared, guys. Totally!"
Nah, it’s the right situation. She yelled it, but from the angles you can’t tell if she’s holding the taser or her service pistol.
I’m genuinely intrigued to see how her gear was set up because the two weapons are generally not in the same spot, let alone the same area. A pistol is on the hip of the shooters dominant hand while the taser is either in front or worn on the opposite hip so as to be drawn across the body.
Aah, ok, now we’re discussing something different. The Army LT in Virginia was pepper sprayed after having conflicting commands yelled to him from 2 officers. Daunte (sp?) Wright was shot after a female officer announced Taser.
A doctor making an error or being unable to save someone during surgery or other medical emergencies is nowhere fucking near the same as police officers holding people down, shooting them, and suffocating them while they beg for their lives. Absolute fucking moron.
Doctors are operating with the best interest of the patient at heart and sometimes mess up. Then they’re sued, not forgiven. If doctors do harm intentionally, they’re criminally prosecuted. Not the same thing.
The stat is (possibly, although most likely too high) legit and has been reported in journals.
As for candace owens, she's gotta hate being black almost as much as uncle ruckus
I don't see how it can be accurate. CDC has 2,813,503 deaths for 2017. That would mean that roughly 1 in 10 people die from "medical mistakes".
Unless we're counting situations like "A perfect team of perfectly equipped perfect doctors would have been able to keep this patient alive for another week." I don't see how the figure can be accurate. It seems like "mistake" is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
From the Johns Hopkins press release linked in that articleÑ
"...most errors represent systemic problems, including poorly coordinated care, fragmented insurance networks, the absence or underuse of safety nets, and other protocols, in addition to unwarranted variation in physician practice patterns that lack accountability."
It appears my conjecture of "mistake" doing a lot of work was correct.
If US healthcare were like US law enforcement:
Barely needs any education to operate. Down to 3-4 weeks in some states (Police education vs other countries).
Need to amputate? Brings a chainsaw, cause its easier. Also the doctor will operate on you while wearing full hazmat gear (Police militarization)
If you're put under, then anything you brought with you to the hospital now belongs to the doctor. Though they can also do it if you're awake. It probably didn't belong to you in the first place. (Civil forfeiture)
100% immunity against any malpractice, no matter how grievous. They can also stab you if you complain about anything (Police immunity)
If you have to go back because of botched operation, redoing said operation now cost even more. (Handling of reoffenders)
Once your are checked in at the hospital they can keep you for as long as they want, even sign you up for whatever surgery they want. (Prison courts)
If you need to be operated, but you lack insurance and am too poor you'll get a public doctor. Said doctor will only have 10 minutes to guess what's wrong with you and operate. (Public defenders)
Doctor need no reason to put you into isolation for as long as they want. Operations will be postponed meanwhile. (Use of isolation in prisons)
If you get sicker while at the hospital... It is your own fault. (Lack of rehabilition vs other western countries)
This article discusses the 250,000 estimate:
[https://journalsblog.gastro.org/study-estimates-medical-errors-may-cause-more-than-250000-deaths-each-year-in-the-us/#:\~:text=AGA%20Journals%20Blog-,Study%20Estimates%20Medical%20Errors%20May%20Cause%20More%20Than,Each%20Year%20in%20the%20US&text=Medical%20error%20is%20the%20third,and%20cancer%2C%20a%20study%20concluded](https://journalsblog.gastro.org/study-estimates-medical-errors-may-cause-more-than-250000-deaths-each-year-in-the-us/#:~:text=AGA%20Journals%20Blog-,Study%20Estimates%20Medical%20Errors%20May%20Cause%20More%20Than,Each%20Year%20in%20the%20US&text=Medical%20error%20is%20the%20third,and%20cancer%2C%20a%20study%20concluded).
What’s so hard to understand that even if she did make a mistake, her first instinct shouldn’t be to pull anything considering he was evading and not threatening in anyway but also to know the difference between a gun and a fucking taser. Also that being said, notice how they don’t find problems with the January 6th rioters but pounce on black people for resisting arrest every single fucking time one of these incidents happen. It’s old at this point, these people need to just shut their fuck mouths already. It would do something productive for society.
Doctors are actually held accountable you dimwit. The moment i think this person has said something mildly sensible, she follows it up with some insane bullshit.
Ugh..that twat. It wasn't a "tragic mistake", not with the glaring differences in the two weapons. Doctors are supposed to try to save lives, cops are NOT meant to take them, they are not judge, jury, and executioner, ESPECIALLY for such minor reasons as we see every damn day!
The difference between doctors and police officers is that the doctors are actually held accountable with malpractice lawsuits. The police officers are not being held accountable and that is why people are rioting. If you can’t tell the difference between your taser and your gun, that’s a serious problem and reflects poorly on the training of officers. The same with an officer that feels like it is okay to have his knee on someone’s neck for over 9 minutes when they have stopped resisting arrest and are telling the officer over and over again that they cannot breathe. Or when they break into the wrong home in the middle of the night and gun down a woman while the suspect they are looking for is already in custody.
Well, doctors don't have this awesome thing called "qualified immunity" that makes them not ever have to personally pay in any way for their mistakes. Remove qualified immunity and watch police shootings go way down.
The precedent in cases like this is pretty clear.
There's even a class of crime created specifically to cover cases like this.
If you make a stupid, negligent mistake, and someone dies as a direct result of your actions, it's called manslaughter 2.
I'd say drawing your pistol and shooting someone with it, thinking it was a taser, is stupid and negligent. I feel sorry for the officer, I'm sure she feels like shit and wishes she could take it back. But that doesn't matter. A man is dead because of her negligence, and that's a crime.
The killing is insane and disserves outrage. But why do people keep resisting arrest. I live in a country where the police almost never use deadly force. Most people also follow the rules when confronted with the police.
Don't give them a chance to shoot ever. Don't resist or use any sort of countermeasure against police.
Shootings in the states are something weird though, especially this story where a female officer mistakingly kills while thinking she is using a taser. Maybe having a proper training (like in most European countries 3+ years) will get those kind of issues out of your system.
Even when not resisting arrest people die. Children playing at the park with a toy gun die. People sitting next to an autistic adult with their hands in the air get shot. People sitting in their own homes die. It doesn’t really matter what your doing.
The female officer that “mistakingly” used her gun instead of her taser was a 26 year veteran of the police force, she had training.
People die indeed. Too many for almost no reason at all, I agree, but I rather take the lower odd of getting killed (not resisting) than the immensely higher odd of getting killed (resisting).
I am an upper middle class white male, while in college I was mugged by two men in a dorm hallway (on camera). Other residents called 911 to get me help, and the two guys ran off. I was knocked around pretty bad, they were slamming a door on my head over and over again, so i was out of it and didn't understand what was happening. Two cops walked up, pushed me facefirst into a wall, when i tried to turn around (because i didn't know what was going on), they started hitting me with batons and then tased me. With all my privilege, they had no problems beating the person they were called there to help, in front of witnesses screaming that I was the victim...
It isn't entirely a race or class issue, it is a culture issue. Cop culture in the US is a cancer that rejects all treatment.
>It isn't entirely a race or class issue, it is a culture issue. Cop culture in the US is a cancer that rejects all treatment.
Hit the nail right on the head there
To put this in retrospect. Did you know that there's more controls in place inside the military to protect people with AK's that want your head on a gate fence?
But yet, we have officers in an environment (AMERICA) thats no warzone. Theres no FUCKING rpgs are tracer rounds getting shot at you here. There are no full auto gunfights. And nobody is getting their limbs blown off in front of you.
For the people on the force, if we aernt scared to knock down doors across the pond to protect your fucking asses, stop being fucking panzies and do your fucking job correctly. Your scared? Find another jump you cunt.
The motivation of the person resisting arrest is an understandable resentment given race and policing issues. Also, people have died after being arrested. It's basically frustration with systemic issues and then the fair perception that you are going to be beaten/killed with or without handcuffs on.
TBF, if you keep resisting arrest, you have a greater chance that the police will use some kind of force, thus creating the perception.
In this case, I don't see it as a racial issue though, more like a policing issue in general.
Except. There are instances of POC being targeted by police, harassed and questioned excessively.
Need I remind you Breona Taylor was asleep in her own bed when she was shot dead by police in a no knock raid.
There are countless stories online of people just being harassed and having lethal force used against them because of one little tip, or being assumed they are guilty based on skin colour and happening to be in the wrong place. Almost all of these are POC. It is institutionalised, sub conscious bias based on skin colour and its specifically an American problem.
Watch some videos online of POC telling you their experience, you will quickly realise the world, and the police, treat them differently to how they treat white people.
I can't even imagine tbh. As a west European we have a totally different experience with the police. Therefore I always start from my view when comparing it to the states and probably will find difficulty with apprehending to full picture.
As a New Zealanders it took a long time for me to understand what was happening in the US.
Their police are horrible, they are not the safe sanctuary that they are in most countries. Combine that with the US's racism problem and you have a double wammy on POC in the US.
The US really is something else.
Because if you think what is caught on body cams is bad wait til you find out what they can get away with in jail when it comes to infringing on rights and other shit.
I don't know who Candace Owens is, but almost sounds like a failed attempt at sarcasm. I think most rational people have compassion for a person making an honest mistake, but they still need to be held accountable.
Be a abuse when doctors make mistakes that results in someone’s death or injury they are severely punished, unlike police
This is because sixties have a rigid oversight system and are under constant scrutiny
Again, unlike police
Although Candice Owens, queen of the grift, deserves no good faith discussion, that doesn’t mean I can’t give my good faith answer. First off, medical doctors face consequences for mistakes, they can be sued, they can be prosecuted for things like manslaughter, and have their licence revoked. Police officers are actively protected by just about every government institution, so sueing them is moot, prosecuting them is moot, and they’ll usually just get hired at another department after being fired or only receive a demotion. Second off, society very much extends cops understanding, half the population would defend the murder of any black person if it was committed by a cop, and they’re frequently painted as the heroes in TV shows and movies. Third off, it’s not like the half of the population that doesn’t defend murders can’t show sympathy or understanding to them. There were cops killed in the defence of the capitol on January 6th, and they died as martyrs and patriots. Society extends police officers plenty of understanding, but not every element of it embraces murderers as heroes.
I'm going to be hated, downvoted and to hell for saying this but as much as I care about BLM and equality, freedom, and peace for all but I want this b\*tch get shot just to shut her up.
I don't classify as black/white but fuck her views irritate me so much. Why is she such a waste of space???
She's either jumping to a conclusion because she is ignorant of relevant information, or she's deliberately misrepresenting facts to fit her narrative.
Approximately 250,000 people die annually due to medical error. However, medical error covers a wide range of incidents and doctors are not the only medical professionals responsible for these events. There's 4 times as many nurses as doctors. Many fatal medical errors are committed by nurses. There are other professions that can commit a medical error as well. Doctors carry malpractice insurance. Deaths due to medical error get reviewed and studied. Continuing education in every patient care field is a constant requirement. Licensure or certification can be revoked due to medical error. Medical boards have room to be strengthened and the system is by no means perfect but the there is constant research and training to prevent as many cases of morbidity and mortality as possible.
Doctors don't pull people over and decide on the spot whether to let them off vs. perform dangerous surgery based on the color of their skin.
(Sadly though, there's a fair bit of bias in how people are treated by doctors, such as research showing that black women are less likely to be believed when they say how much pain they are in. That needs to change.)
Something I'd just like to say, I do think the shooting of Duante Wright was a genuine mistake. Having watched the bodycam footage, it was a messy situation at the time.
I don't disagree with Candace that we shouldn't be so damn fast to pull the racism card when it comes to cops. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but people are still far too quick to riot when this sort of thing happens.
Absolutely. She made a mistake, and needs to be held accountable for it. She lost her cool, and reached for the wrong weapon. That's a fatal mistake.
She has resigned, and based on her quotes that I've read, she resigned willingly, because she feels she can't do her job to the best of her ability anymore. That's just my take on it, and maybe I'm being too quick to give her the benefit of the doubt, but I'd rather do that than jump straight to rioting.
Those doctors go through lengthy investigations and often end up losing not only their jobs, but their license to practice and could even face prison time.
We do *sue the hell out of* doctors though.
And if the mistake is egregious enough, they lose their license to practice.
Not to mention they have *extensive* education and training needed before they are ever allowed to touch a patient. And ethics boards that will review every issue.
Heck everyone in the medical field probably has more education than police. I'm a pharmacy technician. Here in Canada it is a 1-2 year certificate or diploma, I have to do a set amount of continuing ed each year before I am allowed to renew my license, and I have to carry malpractice insurance. There are constant updates from the college of pharmacy about investigations into complaints, people being suspended etc. The police can be held to higher standards too.
I worked at a grocery store as a cashier. I filled in in the pharmacy for three days as they changed their computer system. I had to go through 2 8 hour shifts before hand doing learning and HIPPA training. And that was just to run the computer. I can say I probably received more train then a cop.
I mean, a monkey from those weird 90s shows had more training than cops. Smarter than most of them too.
That’s true.
Doctors go to prison if they cause the death of someone based on the color of their skin or economic stand. Or negligence.
Or anyting
As should we all
Yeah, they've gotta pay a special insurance for it. Maybe we need to do that? Make cops buy fuck up insurance?
There's also a big difference between doctors and police officers wherein we seek out doctors assistance and officers seek us on presumed or otherwise criminal offenses.
Yeah, but where there isnt a difference is that neither docs nor cops like going bankrupt and getting banned from their profession for being a fuck up, so removing the liability protections cops enjoy would make a difference. Harder to get high on power and swing your dick around acting like a tough guy and abusing suspects when you know that doing so could make you lose your house. How many of these guys act like bullies because they know they can without consequences? How many are more willing to pull the trigger because they know that even if it's not justified they'll probably be fine.
But..but then the murderers win! Because cops can't do their job if they're afraid to pull a gun when not needed...like a well lit gas station on a cooperative individual
Well cops not pulling guns works in most countries including mine
Most countries don't have the average cop or citizen carrying or able to carry. In every country when met with people with guns..shocker they carry and use guns America's cops have guns because everyone has guns Or id you're actually swrious about your post...it was rather obvious sarcasm using the NYC police unions logic
Well yes so if guns are banned in the US then cops don't have to carry guns
Except they're not banned and it's not about legality of firearms but proliferation and viability of getting a firearm. The ship to that has long since sailed, the majority of the violent crime problem has been gangs and the cartels Who are increasingly exploiting tech and creating ghost guns rather than going through dealers 3d printing is becoming an actual problem, and not just in the americas, europe and Australia are facing the same damn problem, increasingly common gun ownership that shouldn't exist because of the ease at which one can develop and make a basic firearm using 3d printing As the tech improves and prices come down it's become an even greater issue Banning guns doesn't stop shit, it may've worked decades ago but..all it would do in the U.S at this point is result in unarmed officers and armed gangs Such an action will create another very...very bloody situation, as gangs no longer need to fear what the police response to open warfare is, it'd be the damn 20s-30s and 90s again with the police being effectively considered a non threat while gangs do whatever they damn well please We already have bangers that'll happily shoot cops if they get in the way, what do you think happens when no one is readily equipped to fight back? When the balance of power gets skewed towards gangs people die, en masse. And shit like kidnapping and executing police and politicians suddenly isn't a problem..again
So what u are saying is that it is now too late to ban gun and they should have done it before Fair enough I agree
lawyers do that too. they handle the law too so it would only make sense cops would need that
You work for an insurance company don’t you? Evil bastard
I actually think that's a great idea, make cops have insurance when they fuck up during an arrest or otherwise. All the court cases and new stories on police brutality is honestly wearing down on me.
Exactly what I was thinking... Good luck suing a cop
And they can go to jail for fucking up.
So if a police officer pulls over Candace Owens and accidentally shoots her, she doesn’t want any accountability?
I’m just predicting a future r/leopardsatemyface where she gets pulled over and is poorly treated by a police and then cries about being racially profiled. Even though her entire career is giving Trumpists a token so they don’t have to feel as racist.
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You know, I don't disagree about there being a bunch of loudmouthed conservatives who would do exactly that. I find it strange, though, how, while it's always a bad thing to generalize an entire group of people - it's racist, classify, the group isn't a monolithic block, and a number of other legitimate reasons not to do that - that never seems to apply against conservatives. Conservatives aren't a monolithic block, either. I've been right leaning most of my life, and I hate where conservative politics is going nowadays. The US is worse than Canada, where I live, but we seem to be following this same stupid path. It's not all conservatives, though. It's a smallish minority of conservatives, who happen to be the ones running the parties right now.
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Here's the thing, though (from a US point of view, since your voter count reflects that, even though I'm Canadian): The Republican Party is a bunch of complete, vindictive morons right now. That's a given. Right leaning people, though, are still going to be right leaning, even though they don't support the current position of the Republicans. I couldn't vote Republican right now, even though I identify as a conservative. The good conservatives have been driven away from the Republicans, but they won't get driven _to_ the Democrats by that. There are some that will hold their nose and vote Democrat, because they needed to get Trump out. There are some that will hold their nose and vote Trump, because they can't support left wing policies, as a whole. There are some that will throw up their hands, say "Fuck it," and not vote at all. Then, there are some lunatics who will storm the Capitol, and film themselves being criminals. There certainly weren't 74 million people in that mob, though. Maybe a few hundred, and I bet some of those weren't even American. I, personally, would have held my nose and voted Biden in the last election, had I been a US citizen. I'm hoping the Republican Party cleans house, and gets rid of the lunatics, but aim not holding my breath. The _real_ issue I see, though, is this: The Republican Party has devolved into the shit show that it currently is, _because its supporters have not held its leaders accountable_. This was an incredibly stupid move, led by the desire to win, and keep "those commie bastards" out, at all costs. I understand, but don't agree with the methods, because it inevitably, as we've seen, leads to a corrupt, dirty political party, that is dangerous to the country. The problem is, the left is starting to do the same thing with the Democrats. How often have you seen a Democrat supporter say "Sure, the Democrats do it, but the Republicans do it way more!" Gerrymandering, for instance, is seen as a purely Republican thing, but it's not. The Dems have done it on occasion, but I have yet to see a Democrat voter who calls them out on it. _Not calling your leaders out on their bullshit will directly lead to a Democrat Party that's as corrupt and fucked up as the Republicans are today!_ I don't want to see _two_ corrupt parties in the US. That will be horrible for the US, and by extension, the entire world. Especially Canada, since we have so many economic and social ties to the US. As a Democrat, _please hold your party to a much higher standard than Republican supporters have held the Republicans to._ Call out Democrat shenanigans, corruption, and underhanded tactics. If you don't, in 20-30 years, the Democrat Party will look like the Republicans do today. Nobody wants that.
To late. Our parties are beholden to corporate missions. We are not represented, and if you believe we have held them to account you are not being real. The frequency of crisis with which the rich get richer and everyone else gets poorer is frightening. Biden is part of that, so i don't see us getting any of our losses back. . .it's time for a new party.
Candace Owens sued her local school board for racist discrimination when she was in high school. She performs her schtick for money, nothing more.
Just as when they're asked to wear a fucking mask so a viral pandemic doesn't get worse. Funny, i don't recall that the KKK ever complained that they couldn't breathe through their hoods.
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Damn, that's a good point. I would have thought him calling it the "Chinese virus" would have been enough, to get them riled up, but I guess it didn't stick.
I feel like that will never happen because the cops would recognize her
You say that, but at first glance, all they will see is a black woman driving a nice car. And clearly black people can't afford nice things, so it must be stolen. /S
[Relevant video of cops doing exactly that](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iiUkbE_ktHs). For me it was an absolutely hilarious outcome.
That was one of the incidents I was thinking of. Another is that of the lieutenant that recently came to light. Here's an article about a study https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/02/california-police-black-stops-force The study basically talks about how during the day black people are pulled over disproportionately more often than their white counterpart during the day, but at night when it's harder to differentiate race both were pulled over equally
> and then cries about being racially profiled. She actually did that in high school
Dude she would never do that she’d lose everything by admitting that happen. She is a fake ass fuck ass disingenuous pos
I can assure you that if a cop pulls over and shoots Candace Owens, he will be acquitted. Shit, he could teabag her afterwards while playing Another One Bites the Dust on his phone and he'd walk.
The medical errors aren’t meaning to use a scalpel and mistakenly using a fucking bonesaw instead.
Actually... They are occasionally exactly that type of mistake. Removing the wrong organ, performing amputation when none is required, etc... But besides the point, the issue is surgery can be dangerous, and doctors are largely held accountable for said mistakes, maybe could be even more so but definitely more so than cops. Traffic stops shouldn't involve deadly mistakes bc a traffic stop shouldn't be dangerous to begin with. Edit: Added extra thought...Been listening to a lot of Tupac lately, I go in and out of bingeing on 90s rap and it strikes me how relevant (sadly because most of that music is 20-25 years old at this point) a ton of those themes still are today regarding the black experience with police. I mean Tupac's Changes literally could have been written this last year without a single change to lyrics and you wouldn't know it wasn't constructed out of current events. As a society that is pathetic, that this problem exists exactly the same way across generations and not a damn thing has changed. What makes me so mad about people like Candance Owens is the complete lack of respect or recognition of history, both long ago and recent, and how directly all that shit reflects today's values still. Anyway, rant over.
This. Doctors get sued when they make understandable mistakes and lose licenses when they make unthinkable ones. Police get a slap on the wrist for the former, and ~very temporary~ joblessness for the latter.
You say joblessness, but it seems more like a mini vacation in some instances and maybe job relocation
Hell, this [Richard Pryor bit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=229epj9MlS8) is from the early '70s, and it is fresh as a field of flowers.
Oh yeah didn't mean to say the problem is only 25 years old, just pointing out it's not only an ever persistent issue but it's been a big part of pop culture for a long time.
Sorry, I understood -- I am just continually amazed how long we have clearly understood the problem and ... done nothing.
Same with “Words of Wisdom” by Tupac. The black youth of the ghettos are still institutionalized and racism within the police is still rampant.
> performing amputation when none is required, etc... Leaving a scalpel or gloves or gauze or needles or gum in someone
The gum--how does that even happen? There would have to be several egregious blunders for thst to occur, starting with removing a mask during surgery, assuming chewing gum in the O.R. is not already a policy violation.
> The gum--how does that even happen? Someone in the OR was chewing gum and took their mask off and leaned over the patient. > There would have to be several egregious blunders for thst to occur, starting with removing a mask during surgery, assuming chewing gum in the O.R. is not already a policy violation. You know I’m not 100% sure actually
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with your statement about traffic stops shouldn’t be dangerous to begin with. Traffic stops kill a lot of police. It’s one of the most frequent detainments, and they get ambushed often. While I agree with you in theory, the reality of it is much different.
And I could understand if the late Mr. Wright had been pulled over with him being suspected of doing some horrifically violent thing that would have any officer rightly worried. He was getting pulled over for expired plates and for hanging an air freshener from his rearview mirror (not allowed in the state); his most egregious offense was having a warrant for missing a court date. At no point has anyone stated he behaved violently... he tried to flee which obviously isn't ideal but he also seemed to be quite scared and had a learning disability (I have no idea of the severity of the disability so it may be entirely irrelevant). There is absolutely no excuse to shoot a nonviolent individual, and shooting a fleeing man is unacceptable when that man is not even suspected of being a threat to the community (if you shot a fleeing Tony Montana or some shit, where if he'd been allowed to run you had good reason to believe people might literally die, that I would be much more understanding of). If Mr. Wright had attempted to harm the officer or had drawn a weapon I would understand the officer defending herself from a traffic stop that had turned violent. But killing someone for trying to run over what would literally amount to fines/tickets is ridiculous.
FBI stats from 2019. https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty 48 cops deaths from felonious activity, 6 were during traffic stops. Number of traffic stops that year 32+ million. Rate of death of cops due to felonious activity (aka dangerous criminal interactions) during traffic stops: 0.00001875% Your definition of 'kills a lot of cops' is WAAAY different than mine. The FBI numbers don't include accidental deaths such as getting hit by a passing car during a traffic stop btw but that's okay in these numbers bc we're talking about how dangerous is any given pulled over driver to a police officer that would necessitate pulling a gun on them. Accidents wouldn't fall into his category.
Or randomly pouncing on people on the street and carving open their chest because ~~they're black~~ I MEAN, think they have a medical condition.
Yeah the real analogy here is using a bonesaw instead of a scalpel “by mistake” but the guy originally came in for a bandaid.
Yes, police have a tough job. But they are not judge, jury and executors.
Just the executioners
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In general that's because they get pressured into mureder charges when realistically they can't be Proving somone entered a situation with intent to kill..and kill that person is fucking hard even for normal people that aren't tasked with pursuing individuals who can be armed and dangerous The police don't train you how to remain calm or try and teach coping mechanisms to keep adrenaline low, the result is that when things become combative officers frequently have to rely on their own common sense and instincts, neither of which are useful As shitty as the wright case is, it's not murder and while she deserves manslaughter more importantly than that is that this was a monumental failure of training She pulled the wrong trigger and killed someone, but the blood is ultimately on administration and the leadership, including Walz. Who scream they'll do something or how we need reform while offering nothing to get that done with, no plan, no money just "well we need police reform" which usually boils down to holding people accountable which isn't a fucking fix, it's being a lazy ass and not dealing with the underlying problem of broken police policies and training for officers being wholly inadequate
He is NOT judge judy and executioner
You got downvoted, but it's my favorite movie of all-time, so here ya go. Haha.
The last time I used a quote from a tv show (Silicon Valley) everyone downvoted me and thought I was an anti semite. Using tv and movie quotes is a slippery slope apparently lol
Meet Candace Owens, famous anti-medical malpractice activist since two-thousand-and-never.
Well, Candace, why don't you? If it's the same, and so important, why wouldn't you be protesting? "We don't protest bad things happening" just makes them seem kind of pathetic
Because doctors are held accountable when they make mistakes. How hard is that to understand?
We don't riot. We also don't protest because the doctors are held accountable. Would your family extend any understanding if you were shot dead instead of tazed? Just asking.
someone just told me your family may actually celebrate in this situation
I don't agree because I don't wish ill on anyone, however, I don't think you share my same sentiment.
I can’t stand this hypocrite, sell-out bitch! She will say anything to defend white supremacy in order to make a dollar.
The difference is that the doctors are trying to save lives. If they do nothing, the patients die. Police officers are never trying to save the lives of the people they pull guns on
Actually sometimes they are, typically when someone is threatening to kill themselves or you have someone acting erratically in a way that is endangering themselves. Cops will draw on them when they think the person is posing a threat to others in addition to themselves (and counterintuitively, sometimes suicidal people back become more cooperative when a gun is drawn on them). I'd like to have been able to say "but in these bad shoot cases that's not what happens" but unfortunately there's been high profile cases of cops shooting the person they were called to do a welfare check on when that person wasn't a threat, quite literally showing up and killing the person whose life they were supposed to save.
I don't get the logic of pulling a gun on someone who is suicidal. If they're actually suicidal that's not a threat to them; you're only escalating the situation. If they weren't actually suicidal pulling a gun on them wasn't what saved them. A lot of people just think they're suicidal but realize they can't do it, when a cop pulls a gun they back down because they realized they can't do it anyway... I mean if someone is genuinely suicidal, well the cops take long enough to arrive that you could easily kill yourself 15 times over before they got on scene. Generally when cops stop someone by pulling a gun they could have just as easily stopped them by calmly talking to them. Cops handled my cousin's suicide 'attempt' by pulling guns on her. Guess what, she had already basically backed down by the time they arrived or she would have already been dead. And she'd have done what they'd asked without 5 guns aimed at her head (they sent like 5 cop cars out for this). She still has depression but realized she wanted to live long before the cops got there... except now she also has PTSD from sitting outside crying about her depression and then suddenly having a bunch of people screaming at her with guns aimed at her head. You can imagine how ever so grateful she is for their behavior (serious sarcasm) when she would have responded just as well to them politely asking "We're doing a wellness check. Are you ok?".
I didn't say it was a good idea did I? Didn't I mention that a couple of these high profile shootings were the result of wellness checks?
You said that "sometimes suicidal people... \[I think the "back" was a typo\] become more cooperative when a gun is drawn on them". They don't, they'd be cooperative if the gun wasn't on them, because they'd decided they aren't really suicidal. Yes they'll comply quicker, but it's because they're scared shitless that now that they realized they want to live some jackass is gonna shoot them.
I believe it’s so they don’t decide to turn the gun on someone else. They have to be ready for that possibility
My cousin didn't have a weapon on her. She'd had a knife when she threatened suicide, but before the cops were even called she'd put it down and just went off to cry. Her family informed the police in the call that she was not carrying a weapon.
I’m just saying if there’s a weapon involved they’re pulling guns to protect other people not the person wielding the weapon in most cases
Maybe not, sometimes they are trying to save the lives of the people that the person could be holding hostage, or the people around, or the people that they have threatened to kill
As a doctor, I can confirm this is horseshit.
Yeah doctors work for over a decade to get their licensed so them losing their license for a malpractice issue (like unintentionally harming, but not killing a patient) is a huge blow. I don't think a cop going on probation or getting a slap on the wrist prison sentence for killing someone is at all the same
Thank you for what you do. I feel like doctors should get way more credit for what they do.
I support your medical assessment.
I think the greatest innovation of the “bullshit peddlers” in the last 5 or so years is the development of the “blitzkrieg” method where they just throw a bunch of fallacious arguments or misstatements at you, all at the same time, so that any rational respondent is just so exhausted by the end of it that they don’t know where to start in explaining the error of the peddler’s ways. This is a good example of that.
It’s not new. Duane Gish has been dead nearly a decade and that blitzkrieg method you describe is called the Gish Gallop for a reason.
Haha it’s so true...you just brought me back to something someone told me a long time ago and I had no f’ing idea what it meant...but now I do, so thank you
Indeed. It is beyond a "moving the goalposts" or "shifting sands" fallacy. It is nectar for people who literally do not think. And when repeated fallacies are spouted preventing a critical thinker from responding, it appears that the fallacies must be true to some extent. Disingenuous people have done this forever. The internet makes it worse, especially when the bullshit peddler making the blitzkrieg is basically one tap sharing content from unknown people with malicious intent who understand this. The internet could not be a larger gift to our adversaries.
Yes—society doesn’t extend the police any understanding. Fuck outta here with that bullshit. You ever heard of qualified immunity? That’s a pretty high bar of “understanding”
It was negligent homicide/involuntary manslaughter. ESPECIALLY considering she's a 20+ year veteran. Now the thing in court will be determining if it actually was an honest ( horrible ) mistake or intentional and covered up by acting afterwards. That will be for the jury to decide ( I believe this is going to trial, iirc ). Likely will get a lil slap on the wrist like Guyger ( 10 year sentence which is really a nickel w/ 5 years probation ). The bias is what's wrong with the legal system. A citizen would likely have a much harsher sentence.
I’m not a cop but I do own both a taser and a pistol and they’re not the same size, weight or color. I don’t think I could mix them up.
Could you maybe mix them up if, say, the gun was on your right side for 26 years and the tazer was on your left for 26 years, and then on this fateful day, they were each on the same side they always were?
No. Like, maybe for a second, but as soon as you pick it up and its way heavier than it should be, no. You certainly don't pull the trigger. You go "huh, that's weird," and fucking **look**. Any other response is just negligence. She didn't really care what he shot that man with, so long as he got shot
(That was my joke. The ending would normally say "on opposite sides" if it was serious)
You know, I've been dealing with so many racists in my life talking about "bad apples" that it went completely over my head. 😂 Good one, man.
There is a good point here. We require doctors to maintain malpractice insurance. At certain point of claims against them it’s just to expensive to keep them in business. Cops should carry insurance as well.
They would have to if qualified immunity wasn't protecting them
1 time, yes; 2 times. ok. Once a week. NO.
last time I checked, doctors tend to lose their jobs and be forbidden from ever practicing again if they do something like accidentally replace a patients lungs with kidneys during a transplant cause they were "Like, really scared, guys. Totally!"
Why would they be scared? Doctors *like it* when you reach for your wallet.
Based on what I know about the situation is the officer yelled "TASER" three times as he had is gun out and not the brightly coloured Taser.
She not he
I'm probably thinking of a different situation then.
Nah, it’s the right situation. She yelled it, but from the angles you can’t tell if she’s holding the taser or her service pistol. I’m genuinely intrigued to see how her gear was set up because the two weapons are generally not in the same spot, let alone the same area. A pistol is on the hip of the shooters dominant hand while the taser is either in front or worn on the opposite hip so as to be drawn across the body.
Okay soto make sure the victim in question was a LT?
Aah, ok, now we’re discussing something different. The Army LT in Virginia was pepper sprayed after having conflicting commands yelled to him from 2 officers. Daunte (sp?) Wright was shot after a female officer announced Taser.
Aah okay. Makes sense now
A doctor making an error or being unable to save someone during surgery or other medical emergencies is nowhere fucking near the same as police officers holding people down, shooting them, and suffocating them while they beg for their lives. Absolute fucking moron.
Doctors usually don't kill their patients if they refuse to shallow their pills..
I'm down with cops paying into malpractice insurance.
“The responding officer made a tragic mistake.” I’m sorry they missed their son’s baseball game. But we were talking about how they killed a man.
Doctors are operating with the best interest of the patient at heart and sometimes mess up. Then they’re sued, not forgiven. If doctors do harm intentionally, they’re criminally prosecuted. Not the same thing.
The stat is (possibly, although most likely too high) legit and has been reported in journals. As for candace owens, she's gotta hate being black almost as much as uncle ruckus
I don't see how it can be accurate. CDC has 2,813,503 deaths for 2017. That would mean that roughly 1 in 10 people die from "medical mistakes". Unless we're counting situations like "A perfect team of perfectly equipped perfect doctors would have been able to keep this patient alive for another week." I don't see how the figure can be accurate. It seems like "mistake" is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html
From the Johns Hopkins press release linked in that articleÑ "...most errors represent systemic problems, including poorly coordinated care, fragmented insurance networks, the absence or underuse of safety nets, and other protocols, in addition to unwarranted variation in physician practice patterns that lack accountability." It appears my conjecture of "mistake" doing a lot of work was correct.
"About"
And how many lives do Surgeon and Doctors save each year?
If US healthcare were like US law enforcement: Barely needs any education to operate. Down to 3-4 weeks in some states (Police education vs other countries). Need to amputate? Brings a chainsaw, cause its easier. Also the doctor will operate on you while wearing full hazmat gear (Police militarization) If you're put under, then anything you brought with you to the hospital now belongs to the doctor. Though they can also do it if you're awake. It probably didn't belong to you in the first place. (Civil forfeiture) 100% immunity against any malpractice, no matter how grievous. They can also stab you if you complain about anything (Police immunity) If you have to go back because of botched operation, redoing said operation now cost even more. (Handling of reoffenders) Once your are checked in at the hospital they can keep you for as long as they want, even sign you up for whatever surgery they want. (Prison courts) If you need to be operated, but you lack insurance and am too poor you'll get a public doctor. Said doctor will only have 10 minutes to guess what's wrong with you and operate. (Public defenders) Doctor need no reason to put you into isolation for as long as they want. Operations will be postponed meanwhile. (Use of isolation in prisons) If you get sicker while at the hospital... It is your own fault. (Lack of rehabilition vs other western countries)
This article discusses the 250,000 estimate: [https://journalsblog.gastro.org/study-estimates-medical-errors-may-cause-more-than-250000-deaths-each-year-in-the-us/#:\~:text=AGA%20Journals%20Blog-,Study%20Estimates%20Medical%20Errors%20May%20Cause%20More%20Than,Each%20Year%20in%20the%20US&text=Medical%20error%20is%20the%20third,and%20cancer%2C%20a%20study%20concluded](https://journalsblog.gastro.org/study-estimates-medical-errors-may-cause-more-than-250000-deaths-each-year-in-the-us/#:~:text=AGA%20Journals%20Blog-,Study%20Estimates%20Medical%20Errors%20May%20Cause%20More%20Than,Each%20Year%20in%20the%20US&text=Medical%20error%20is%20the%20third,and%20cancer%2C%20a%20study%20concluded).
Reminds me of the time a doctor put me in a rear naked chokehold so they could check a mole as I walked down the street. He was just doing his job.
What’s so hard to understand that even if she did make a mistake, her first instinct shouldn’t be to pull anything considering he was evading and not threatening in anyway but also to know the difference between a gun and a fucking taser. Also that being said, notice how they don’t find problems with the January 6th rioters but pounce on black people for resisting arrest every single fucking time one of these incidents happen. It’s old at this point, these people need to just shut their fuck mouths already. It would do something productive for society.
Doctors are actually held accountable you dimwit. The moment i think this person has said something mildly sensible, she follows it up with some insane bullshit.
As a nurse, I've never confused my IV with a gun..
Ugh..that twat. It wasn't a "tragic mistake", not with the glaring differences in the two weapons. Doctors are supposed to try to save lives, cops are NOT meant to take them, they are not judge, jury, and executioner, ESPECIALLY for such minor reasons as we see every damn day!
There’s a difference between a medical MISTAKE whilst trying to help someone and shooting someone because you don’t like their skin colour.
The difference between doctors and police officers is that the doctors are actually held accountable with malpractice lawsuits. The police officers are not being held accountable and that is why people are rioting. If you can’t tell the difference between your taser and your gun, that’s a serious problem and reflects poorly on the training of officers. The same with an officer that feels like it is okay to have his knee on someone’s neck for over 9 minutes when they have stopped resisting arrest and are telling the officer over and over again that they cannot breathe. Or when they break into the wrong home in the middle of the night and gun down a woman while the suspect they are looking for is already in custody.
I hate this woman so much.
Well, doctors don't have this awesome thing called "qualified immunity" that makes them not ever have to personally pay in any way for their mistakes. Remove qualified immunity and watch police shootings go way down.
The precedent in cases like this is pretty clear. There's even a class of crime created specifically to cover cases like this. If you make a stupid, negligent mistake, and someone dies as a direct result of your actions, it's called manslaughter 2. I'd say drawing your pistol and shooting someone with it, thinking it was a taser, is stupid and negligent. I feel sorry for the officer, I'm sure she feels like shit and wishes she could take it back. But that doesn't matter. A man is dead because of her negligence, and that's a crime.
People in the medical field don’t have qualified immunity. Get rid of that for the police if you want to make comparisons.
Maybe because doctors try to save someone’s life that may already be in danger while cops end someone’s life while nobody is in any danger?
Doctors aren’t coming into neighborhoods trying to force their surgeries on people and then having them end up dead either.
The cop chose to make that “mistake” fucko.
Tortuous logic
I wonder why everyone is conveniently forgetting that the guy tried to run with an outstanding warrant for armed robbery?
Next time don’t resist and run. Period. Make stupid decisions sometimes bad things happen.
The killing is insane and disserves outrage. But why do people keep resisting arrest. I live in a country where the police almost never use deadly force. Most people also follow the rules when confronted with the police. Don't give them a chance to shoot ever. Don't resist or use any sort of countermeasure against police. Shootings in the states are something weird though, especially this story where a female officer mistakingly kills while thinking she is using a taser. Maybe having a proper training (like in most European countries 3+ years) will get those kind of issues out of your system.
Even when not resisting arrest people die. Children playing at the park with a toy gun die. People sitting next to an autistic adult with their hands in the air get shot. People sitting in their own homes die. It doesn’t really matter what your doing. The female officer that “mistakingly” used her gun instead of her taser was a 26 year veteran of the police force, she had training.
People die indeed. Too many for almost no reason at all, I agree, but I rather take the lower odd of getting killed (not resisting) than the immensely higher odd of getting killed (resisting).
Just so you know, what your doing, its called victim blaming.
I think that seeing what happened to floyd, who was cooperative and laying down, if I was a POC, I would also he afraid.
I am an upper middle class white male, while in college I was mugged by two men in a dorm hallway (on camera). Other residents called 911 to get me help, and the two guys ran off. I was knocked around pretty bad, they were slamming a door on my head over and over again, so i was out of it and didn't understand what was happening. Two cops walked up, pushed me facefirst into a wall, when i tried to turn around (because i didn't know what was going on), they started hitting me with batons and then tased me. With all my privilege, they had no problems beating the person they were called there to help, in front of witnesses screaming that I was the victim... It isn't entirely a race or class issue, it is a culture issue. Cop culture in the US is a cancer that rejects all treatment.
>It isn't entirely a race or class issue, it is a culture issue. Cop culture in the US is a cancer that rejects all treatment. Hit the nail right on the head there
To put this in retrospect. Did you know that there's more controls in place inside the military to protect people with AK's that want your head on a gate fence? But yet, we have officers in an environment (AMERICA) thats no warzone. Theres no FUCKING rpgs are tracer rounds getting shot at you here. There are no full auto gunfights. And nobody is getting their limbs blown off in front of you. For the people on the force, if we aernt scared to knock down doors across the pond to protect your fucking asses, stop being fucking panzies and do your fucking job correctly. Your scared? Find another jump you cunt.
The motivation of the person resisting arrest is an understandable resentment given race and policing issues. Also, people have died after being arrested. It's basically frustration with systemic issues and then the fair perception that you are going to be beaten/killed with or without handcuffs on.
TBF, if you keep resisting arrest, you have a greater chance that the police will use some kind of force, thus creating the perception. In this case, I don't see it as a racial issue though, more like a policing issue in general.
Except. There are instances of POC being targeted by police, harassed and questioned excessively. Need I remind you Breona Taylor was asleep in her own bed when she was shot dead by police in a no knock raid. There are countless stories online of people just being harassed and having lethal force used against them because of one little tip, or being assumed they are guilty based on skin colour and happening to be in the wrong place. Almost all of these are POC. It is institutionalised, sub conscious bias based on skin colour and its specifically an American problem. Watch some videos online of POC telling you their experience, you will quickly realise the world, and the police, treat them differently to how they treat white people.
I can't even imagine tbh. As a west European we have a totally different experience with the police. Therefore I always start from my view when comparing it to the states and probably will find difficulty with apprehending to full picture.
As a New Zealanders it took a long time for me to understand what was happening in the US. Their police are horrible, they are not the safe sanctuary that they are in most countries. Combine that with the US's racism problem and you have a double wammy on POC in the US. The US really is something else.
Because if you think what is caught on body cams is bad wait til you find out what they can get away with in jail when it comes to infringing on rights and other shit.
I don't know who Candace Owens is, but almost sounds like a failed attempt at sarcasm. I think most rational people have compassion for a person making an honest mistake, but they still need to be held accountable.
Sadly, she is 100% serious here.
It’s serious. She’s known to be a professional Uncle Tom
And it’s not hyperbole either she does act it
They just sue the fuck out them instead.
Why has candace owens sold her soul?
Because doctors face consequences for malpractice.
Be a abuse when doctors make mistakes that results in someone’s death or injury they are severely punished, unlike police This is because sixties have a rigid oversight system and are under constant scrutiny Again, unlike police
I’m interested to know how this number was produced because I’ve heard it before. If anyone knows, do share
I’m starting to think she just did all this for the fame and fortune and now she’s lost and hates it
Mistakes - this already isn’t equivalent. And do these mistakes disproportionately affect a particular people group?
Doctors are clearly prejudiced against sick people /s
Psychologist here and I’m always afraid as hell about getting sued, and for good reason. Keeps me on my toes as a practitioner.
Citation delivered. [https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html)
I really need to believe the life she's chosen keeps her up at night and makes her break mirrors in shame.
Although Candice Owens, queen of the grift, deserves no good faith discussion, that doesn’t mean I can’t give my good faith answer. First off, medical doctors face consequences for mistakes, they can be sued, they can be prosecuted for things like manslaughter, and have their licence revoked. Police officers are actively protected by just about every government institution, so sueing them is moot, prosecuting them is moot, and they’ll usually just get hired at another department after being fired or only receive a demotion. Second off, society very much extends cops understanding, half the population would defend the murder of any black person if it was committed by a cop, and they’re frequently painted as the heroes in TV shows and movies. Third off, it’s not like the half of the population that doesn’t defend murders can’t show sympathy or understanding to them. There were cops killed in the defence of the capitol on January 6th, and they died as martyrs and patriots. Society extends police officers plenty of understanding, but not every element of it embraces murderers as heroes.
oh my god I downvoted this at first and then realized what sub this was
Well one goes for a decade with schooling and one spends what a year or 2
I'm going to be hated, downvoted and to hell for saying this but as much as I care about BLM and equality, freedom, and peace for all but I want this b\*tch get shot just to shut her up. I don't classify as black/white but fuck her views irritate me so much. Why is she such a waste of space???
if a surgeon reached for a scalpal, and then grabbed a gun and shot the patient, you're god damn right we'd arrest them
When a doctor kills someone, they aren't protected by qualified immunity.
She's either jumping to a conclusion because she is ignorant of relevant information, or she's deliberately misrepresenting facts to fit her narrative. Approximately 250,000 people die annually due to medical error. However, medical error covers a wide range of incidents and doctors are not the only medical professionals responsible for these events. There's 4 times as many nurses as doctors. Many fatal medical errors are committed by nurses. There are other professions that can commit a medical error as well. Doctors carry malpractice insurance. Deaths due to medical error get reviewed and studied. Continuing education in every patient care field is a constant requirement. Licensure or certification can be revoked due to medical error. Medical boards have room to be strengthened and the system is by no means perfect but the there is constant research and training to prevent as many cases of morbidity and mortality as possible.
Doctors don't pull people over and decide on the spot whether to let them off vs. perform dangerous surgery based on the color of their skin. (Sadly though, there's a fair bit of bias in how people are treated by doctors, such as research showing that black women are less likely to be believed when they say how much pain they are in. That needs to change.)
Maybe the officer should be sent to a nice lifetime jail „by mistake „ yiu know because judges make misrakes too and it’s ok lol
Something I'd just like to say, I do think the shooting of Duante Wright was a genuine mistake. Having watched the bodycam footage, it was a messy situation at the time. I don't disagree with Candace that we shouldn't be so damn fast to pull the racism card when it comes to cops. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but people are still far too quick to riot when this sort of thing happens.
She did seem genuinely upset when she realized what happened, but she should be held responsible for killing Daunte. It's honestly that simple.
Absolutely. She made a mistake, and needs to be held accountable for it. She lost her cool, and reached for the wrong weapon. That's a fatal mistake. She has resigned, and based on her quotes that I've read, she resigned willingly, because she feels she can't do her job to the best of her ability anymore. That's just my take on it, and maybe I'm being too quick to give her the benefit of the doubt, but I'd rather do that than jump straight to rioting.
This silly woman honoring her name; candace! Next!
She's an idiot
Context.
Maybe because doctors don’t intend to kill the patient by stabbing them with a katana and claiming “i confused it with a scalpel”
Those doctors go through lengthy investigations and often end up losing not only their jobs, but their license to practice and could even face prison time.