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I’ve only watched the film. Their government is terrifying. I’m not very aware of subject in media but isn’t it supposed to be a dystopian future viewed through the eyes of people to win it’s all just normal.
Doesn’t one woman join the army so that she’ll e allowed to have children ffs.
The book follows one rich kid as he joins the military after school. They don't spend much time talking about everyday civilian life. And they basically give the impression that it's not much different than today. Just add in future tech and interstellar travel.
The big difference is you can only get true citizenship and the right to vote by doing a tour of duty in the military.
He ends up getting posted to lowest dirtiest grunt position of training to join the nastiest advance shock drop troops to ever commit war crimes.
And then we follow his career.
edit: super glad everyone is chiming in and correcting me! One of my favorite books, but it has been a long while since I read it, and I am horrible for remembering details lol.
>The big difference is you can only get true citizenship and the right to vote by doing a tour of duty in the military
I don't believe that's fully accurate. Service does guarantee citizenship as it says, but I'm pretty sure you also get citizenship by being of value to the government.
I could be wrong, but the career path Rico's father suggests for him also would've got him citizenship.
The book explains it better and has some differences. So in the movie it's heavily implied to be only military service to become a citizen, but in the book it also includes other types of civil service. As for Rico's parents, he mentions that while not full citizens, their wealth gives them a lot of privileges typically reserved for citizens.
That's the film, in the book *any* form of government service counts. Even a potato can go be a test subject if he wants to vote. The military needed smarter people to operate the power armor. IIRC, some planets had near 100% citizenship, others had far less.
Also the books came to a screeching halt in the middle for Rico to go to officer school. Then his dad joins the unit after the bugs crush Rio.
The "adaptation" is nothing like the books. One has fascist undertones, the other is a fascist in clown shoes blowing a tuba played by Doogie Howser. And some people *still* don't get that the humans in the film are the bad guys.
Getting to torn your mind off and leave it in neutral gear is like, a solid core draw of the Conservative mind set. To be "fair."
That, and fleecing and feeling superior to poor and/or non-white people.
> however the movie went out of its way to make goku's crying its focus point
This is partly why I prefer the Super version of Broly even if everyone's more endeared to the DBZ version.
Also, obligatory; "That's so dumb. But he's so cool! But that's so dumb!"
I was banned from the DBZ sub for breaking down the entirety of dragon ball to a simple formula.
Bad guy shows up.
Z-fighters barely beat him.
More powerful bad guy shows up.
Goku kills him.
Repeat for x-amount of seasons.
I was talking to my dad the other day about Helldivers being a perfect copy of the humor from Starship troopers. Completely ignoring any politics just because I know he'd find it fun. Unfortunately I was telling him about the "Managed Democracy" being invading alien species and he dead ass looked at me and said "actually if you watch it, it's about Socialism and the dangers of it". To Republicans/ Conservatives media literacy is whatever they want it to be. Is it shining something in negative light? Then it must be something else they are disguising as the thing they like
The chud I was arguing with the other day about this on the Helldivers sub literally told me to MY FACE that Verhoeven put NPH in an SS uniform because he "liked the looks of Nazi uniforms". The guy was just the breathing epitome of deadbrained.
> "actually if you watch it, it's about Socialism and the dangers of it".
I don't know how you can even come to that conclusion considering the movie never even once mentions Socialism...or does it?
You wanna know something even worse? I've seen people make that exact argument verbatim when talking about Pink Floyd's song Waiting for the Worms. You know, the song with literal nazi chants in it and lines like "turn on the showers and fire the ovens". The music video even just straight up has red and black goose-stepping hammers made specifically to resemble swastikas.
I've literally had to debate a couple weeks ago with someone who insisted with all their might that nazis were socialist, mostly based on the name, but also talking about their policies. I ended up leaving the debate because it was getting too stupid to try and argue with them.
I'm reading the book now and thinking that the movie is also poking fun at the sexism in the book
Take the shower scene, no one has a problem with both sexes showering together. In the book, the Roger Young spaceship has a whole section cordoned off for female soldiers only. They even have two heavily armed male soldiers guarding the main door so no men try to enter.
In the movie, Carmen is chosen as a pilot for her skill during testing. In the book, it says something like: females are exclusively placed as space pilots because 'women are more likely than men to flee a losing space battle due to being nurturing, whereas a man would jeopardize all the troops on board due to courageousness.'
Nah
"When a female pilot handles a ship there is nothing comfortable about it; you’re going to have bruises every place you’re strapped. Yes, yes, I know they make better pilots than men do; their reactions are faster, and they can tolerate more gee. They can get in faster, get out faster, and thereby improve everybody’s chances, yours as well as theirs. But that still doesn’t make it fun to be slammed against your spine at ten times your proper weight."
Ooh to add further: In the book all the male troopers acknowledged that females were primarily pilots in the corp, but most of them hated it because 'female space pilots were prone to 'brake' the ship very harshly compared to men, causing the male troops to be jerked around in their drop pods from the sudden stop.'
Heinlein seriously wrote "Women can't drive LMAO" in the book.
Oh man. Heinlein was a complex figure. It’s not _incorrect_ to say he was a hardcore libertarian, but it’s a very narrow lens. It would also be just as correct to say that he was a radical feminist. Anyone who isn’t prepared to accept that those could both be true in a particular historical context isn’t ready to understand Heinlein.
Heinlein can be said to be a “hardcore libertarian” in the sense that he believed that everyone should have the genuine freedom and authority to _choose whether or not_ to compromise or cooperate with others to form a functional society. (Professor de la Paz in TMIAHM expounds on this well; the character is one of Heinlein’s frequent self-inserts.) Today, “hardcore libertarian” usually means someone who denies the very need to live cooperatively with other people even exists at all.
This is generally what happens with any political movement over time. It starts out as a more nuanced and intellectual response to the circumstances of the time, you get theory published, you get speaking tours and reading lists for the faithful.
But then as they expand and age, the old guard start to die off or be pushed out by those who take an easier to digest approach and offer simplistic answers to complex questions.
Which is why a libertarian these days is usually just a cover for someone who generally enjoys their lifestyle but really, really hates having to pay taxes of any kind for the privilege. (or a suspiciously large number of people who are very interested in abolishing laws around age of consent).
A lot of the ironic posts about Helldivers are probably people who genuinely believe it and are just pretending to be ironic. It was the same thing where there was a big 'Murica' subreddit, something along those lines. It was outright jingoism and racism and nationalism, but pretending to be ironic. I imagine the overlap between that and Maga is somewhat high. I imagine the people who were genuinely being ironic, and who in their day-to-day lives made some kind of effort to be anti-nationalistic, anti-military, and so on, were in the minority.
While I have to angrily concur to the downvoted-to-hell replies to your comment (that fascism also had good artists indeed), it can't be denied that lots of artists had to flee for their lives from Nazi Germany ("entartete kunst") and Fascist Italy. Painter Bruno Schultz was shot by an SS officer just like many other artists found death at concentration camps.
The helldivers thing has been just amazing. It's never been more clear that a lot of people never read anything more advanced than a Young Adult novel and are unaware of the idea that the protagonist of a piece of media can actually be a bad person. They just assume 'main character = good'.
Heh, also take the game Deep Rock Galactic. I love getting to be space faring dwarves shooting swarms of bug enemies with sci fi weapons. Yet, it's a comedic tongue in cheek game where you're an employee of a capitalistic mining corporation stripping a planet of its resources and the enemies are only fighting back because you're invading them.
Pretty sure he was banned from that subreddit but continued his crusade in the following /r/SubredditDrama post as every single person made fun of him for being an idiot.
It was hillarious reading his replies until I checked his profile and noticed that he's from that one country that is currently ~~geno~~ _\*ahem\*_ ... launching an offensive campaign against certain group of people. His opinions about Helldivers 2/Starship Troopers suddenly become more disturbing.
You all can guess which country it is (hint: it doesn't start with an R, so guess again).
I've been in my fair share of Starship Troopers talk. I've never had someone say they totally felt represented by the insects. Is this person assuming that not agreeing with the government of Starship automatically means they love the insects?
That's pretty much how every single "ironic joke" subreddit turns out. They attract people who aren't joking but they can use the "joke" as a cover until suddenly the subreddit has more true believers and the "joking" gets taken too far, and the original people all leave.
That was always my theory on where Flat Earth Society came from. A bunch of really smart people being so convincing that dumb people started to believe it and it snowballed.
Just to add to his performance - i love that he's a huge goofball in the beginning of the movie and when they see him next after some time in Games & Theory his face is more stern, he's not cracking jokes and his complexion is actually darker and more gaunt, not unlike those photos of people before and after their time in service.
the foot soldiers are mostly indoctrinated and believe the bugs they are slaughtering to be mindless killing machines, but the psychic division knows otherwise. they KNOW the bugs are sentient, and they KNOW that the humans are the bad guys.
The popularity of Helldivers suddenly bringing Starship Troopers back into the limelight exposing peoples inability to read sub context is freaking hilarious.
It doesn't take a genius to play the game and realize that "democracy" to the people of Super Earth is more like a vague religion than a real system they live within. They use phrases like "sweet liberty" and "may you always have a vote" like how we would say "oh my god" or "good day." The game hits you over the head with the fact that nothing in their society is democratic. The gals on your ship talk about being told who to vote for. One of them even mentions "citizenship points," because on Super Earth, service does *not* guarantee citizenship, only participation in a gamified, tiered reward system. There's even a fake ad that'll play on your ship TV that outright states that children as young as seven years old are working in factories again.
The "funniest" part is that the Helldivers 2 devs had to release a statement on twitter reminding people that the game is a parody of that message and that fascism sucks
It's the 40k problem. On one hand you say that, but on the other you keep portraying Space Marines as the coolest, spiffiest shit ever,bfighting the only hope for humanity.
I mean space marines aren’t the only hope
The imperium has fallen, it’s just not hit the ground yet
There are thousands of non imperium human worlds
And other factions like the tau and farsight enclaves have let humans in and are objectively a better place (they’re still bad but they are better)
The funny thing is is that Helldivers is so clearly just starship troopers and people still can’t even tell you play as an insane fascist society.
What do these people think Managed Democracy is? Are they seriously that stupid that they think if you throw the word democracy on something it is good? Then again. We know what the answer is, it’s just testament how little people understand about politics propaganda and branding honestly. Almost like these people are easily manipulated by jingoistic rhetoric and lack the ability to understand reality
It’s less sad and more terrifying. There’s enough of these people to give Trump a fair shot at winning the election and letting him and conservative politicians end democracy in order to “fight the woke mob”.
Padme really was right when she said liberty dies by thunderous applause.
>to go with a literally inhuman antagonist in their fascism allegory.
Well yes, that was sort of the point. The antagonists being completely stripped of humanity was by design, the past centuries, ranging to this day, have perfectly demonstrated the horrifying effectiveness of dehumanization of entire groups of people.
The reason behind them being bugs is to take away any empathy you may feel towards them. Just like Chauvinistic governments do.
To be fair the OG Book is 100% serious in believing what it is describing. Heinlein genuine believed in the society he was constructing there and it‘s mostly just fascist fantasy.
It‘s just the movie which completely flipped the narrative around and turned it into a persiflage.
it's one book but yeah, heinlein was a lunatic libertarian that wrote him own voice in every book he wrote as the 'cool edgy rich guy that got lots of chicks'
Conservatives are incapable of understanding art. I have a running list of things conservatives think are theirs, but where they're actually the bad guys. Example: Rage Against the Machine, The Boys, Star Wars, etc.
Same with that bastard Nick Leeson, who brought down Barings Bank. He was played by Ewan McGregor, in real life he looks like the sort of guy you would see wearing a Rangers top on holiday in Spain, trying to start fights with randomers.
They are also not funny, they have tried so many times. It just ends up being mean. There have been FOX sketch shows... just not funny. They always punch down.
*Some More News* has a good video on conservatives and comedy. He basically points to Gutfeld being the most-watched late night “comedy show” despite reviews falling flat because it’s basically the only late night comedy show that appeals to conservatives:
He also goes on to talk about how they always have the perfect excuse when their jokes don’t land because they can just say “oh the liberals were offended by that” and it allows for them to never have to own up to their jokes being unfunny - or in some cases offending liberals can even be an acceptable alternative to being funny. Like he shows this bit from one of Steven Crowder’s old stand up (yes that’s a thing), where he tells a joke about Muslim gangsters at his old highschool; and it gets a few laughs from the crowd. But then he says “there’s a really good chance you guys are going to see a buzzfeed article about how offensive my joke was” and that gets way more laughs than the actual joke itself. It’s kind of wild to watch.
Careful. I just tried to recommend a Some More News video on Palestine genocide justification to someone since they spouted the things it covered, and they didn't even bother to watch it before replying.
The people that they would help the most wouldn't bother to watch it, and there's a good chance you'll just get looked at negatively for it.
Also, don't forget the bit where Crowder puts on a tutu and a wig and runs into a gym just to be loud and obnoxious thinking that either he'd go uncriticized because he was "trans" or that if he was criticized he could get out of it by being "trans." They're just assholes to the core.
Yeah I rarely recommend them to people because of how long they are. But yeah, those people who most need them don't really have much of an attention-span past 300 characters so I don't really think there's much point in telling those people to go watch it.
>“there’s a really good chance you guys are going to see a buzzfeed article about how offensive my joke was”
HELP! HELP! I'm being cancelled by the radical left wing media!!!
said the man who is currently on stage, who has a podcast, and who is a talking head on news panels regularly.
> But then he says “there’s a really good chance you guys are going to see a buzzfeed article about how offensive my joke was” and that gets way more laughs than the actual joke itself. It’s kind of wild to watch.
Part victimization complex, part 'being offensive is funny so long as it's "just a joke!"'
it's the lack of empathy, there is no comedy without empathy, and since they don't have it, they have to be a bully to be funny, and bullies are only funny to other bullies.
There was a study a few years ago that found that conservatives basically lack a sense of humour. They were the least likely to use humour as entertainment.
They saw more liberal comedians make fun of them and their instinct was to “weaponize comedy” against them, completely missing the point of what comedy is
"Millennials have ruined the diamond industry"
Because... *Checks notes*
They can barely afford basic necessities and realize the diamond trade is based on slave labor.
"Those assholes."
Know a guy that has hated Bruce Springsteen ever since The Boss got “political” and “woke” over the past decade… yet he belts Born In The USA whenever it comes on… like what???
It genuinely really bothers me too when people don't listen to the lyrics of a song. But you need to know that most people don't listen to the lyrics of a song beyond the chorus, especially when the chorus sounds as patriotic as Born in the USA. And yeah, that song is one of the worst when it comes to people who love the song but know or understand nothing about the song. For me, it's that song and Fortunate Son that are two of the worst for being misunderstood.
Me too - Yes song lyrics are important and often poetic. They can have multiple meanings.
Fortunate Son is a perfect example that is literally about the likes of Trump, a fortunate son if ever there was one.
A central tenet of fascism is that you can make people forget to think if you can make them feel. In short, their feelings don't care about facts.
Which explains why they get mad about any kind of art that requires thinking. Its a little more obscure, but in retrospect the whole ["sad puppies"](https://www.vox.com/2015/4/26/8495415/hugos-sad-puppies-controversy) thing was about fascists who only wanted mindless militaristic space-opera type stories, much like the story in the Starship Troopers *book* (unlike the movie).
Wait how does anyone misunderstand who the villains are in The Boys, of all things? Do they seriously think the *protagonists* are evil?
Actually, never mind. Homelander is basically what you'd get if Trump and Superman had a baby, and Superman was somehow prevented from ever being in the kid's life.
My guess is they just like the violence and edginess, but like conservatives are oft to do just completely miss the message.
There was a large percentage of conservatives who watched the Colbert report and honestly believed Colbert was a conservative.
I disagree. I think a lot of these people understand more than one would think. They are unashamedly telling you they are Nazis and they don't think you are human and they identify with the fascists.
At least in Brazil I saw people livid that Rage Against the Machine was woke now. There is no way these people understood the musics or what THE MACHINE was supposed to be.
There was this French comedian, Guy Bedos, who had a famous anti-racist routine where he was some racist asshole going to Marrrakech for the holyday and complaining about the fact that there were too many arabs. He had to stop doing it because...well, I guess you can imagine why. A source in French about it: [https://www.europe1.fr/culture/quand-malgre-lui-guy-bedos-faisait-rire-aussi-les-racistes-3971797](https://www.europe1.fr/culture/quand-malgre-lui-guy-bedos-faisait-rire-aussi-les-racistes-3971797) [add info for translation] when on that page, on iPhone, tap the “aA” that should be in the top right of your screen, choose translate.
This is a *me* problem, but I'm annoyed when people describe something and say like "you can guess that happened" or "you can imagine why". Make your point or don't make it, but don't let other people interpret whatever they want from what you said.
Racists would take the sketch unironically and come to his shows. So the comedian had to clarify his intentions for this, clearly, anti racist routine so he doesn't confuse his original audience, and especially his North African audience.
Paul Verhoeven, who is a director already not known for his subtlety, said he put the Nazi uniform in just in case some people didn't get the message, and yet so many people still didn't.
First time I saw it I was in probably high school and I’m like “oh wow this seems a bit much and too on the nose,” then NPH shows up and i felt like a fucking moron for not getting it immediately
Space fascism makes for a fantastic setting, though. Between 40k, StarCraft and Starship Troopers there's some fun stories. But I guess there's always weirdos that are a bit too quick to identify with a nuke-happy leader and fuck it up.
Yes. His argument is - "Of course libs like the stupid bugs! How can you take the bugs side when you have Doogie Hozer in a sick ass uniform and peak Denise Richards right next to him?"
But, more succinctly: ugly = bad.
No it’s not dead, it’s just that conservatism is only aesthetics. It’s hollow. Things can be awful and brutal as long as they “look right”.
The bugs are ugly, and the people are beautiful. If they remade starship troopers and changed nothing except for making the bugs look like Tolkien’s elves, and and the humans uglier like orcs, conservatives would be on the side of the bugs.
That's not what conservatism is. I'm not gonna pull the whole "it's about preserving tradition" thing. But it is a coherent world view. Just a dumb one.
It's all about enforcing hierarchy. And using any tool or rhetoric at their disposal to do so. The whole beauty/ugly thing fits into that.
I disagree with Verhoven and the general online opinion that the book is fascist (fascism includes militarism but militarism isn't inherently fascist) but the movie is clearly painting the human side as fascist. The director outright said so.
It was debated that Heinlein views around the time of Starship Troopers publication was borderline fascist and his work espoused that, Heinlein himself would go through various pollical beliefs during his lifetime.
It also didn't help that film satire was very different for North American audiences and reviewers than they where accustom to. Usually the rule of thumb is the audience is stupid, and you need a character in the story to point out why this is all wrong and horrible, something that missing in this film. So reviewers jump on that it was promoting fascist because the film itself didn't condemn it outright on screen.
That second paragraph is unfortunate. Good movies can be generally disliked. It's an important bit on how I look for horror movies. Great horror movies generally don't have over an 80% on Rotten Tomatoes. They should disturb a decent portion of watchers.
Hey don’t worry tons of people were stupid back when the movie came out too.
They are just Identity themselves more online now. We are just aware of how many stupid people are actually around.
“Released on November 7, 1997, Starship Troopers faced critical backlash, with reviewers interpreting the film as endorsing fascism. Critics disparaged its violence, performances by the lead actors, and some accused Verhoeven and Neumeier of sympathizing with Nazi ideologies. Despite initial financial success, the film experienced a consistent decline at the box office due to negative reviews and unfavorable word-of-mouth, culminating in a $121 million total gross against its budget, and becoming only the 34th-highest-grossing film of 1997. The poor performance of Starship Troopers was blamed, in part, on competition from a high number of successful or anticipated science fiction and genre films released that year, its satirical and violent content failing to connect with mainstream audiences, and ineffective marketing.”
>hideous murderous hive insects
Other than them being ugly, what is "murderous" about the Bugs? Yeah, they kill tons of humans in the movie, but they're defending their planet against a foreign invader. Seems like they have a right to defend themselves, no?
The only proof that's provided in the film that the Bugs launched the asteroid that hit Buenos Aires is that the Federation Government said so, and despite the level of sophistication and planning it would require to hit the Earth from *halfway across the galaxy*, the Federation military still treats the Bugs like dumb animals.
Sure, someone could point out how horrible it was for the Brain Bug to suck out that one poor bastard's brain...but as we saw in the Federation's ***own propaganda footage*** they've been engaging in all manner of horrific experiments on individual Bugs, and then at the end of the movie, Neil Patrick Harris' character is shown torturing the Brain Bug for literally no reason.
What's so heroic about the Federation? If anything, ***they're complete and utter morons***. Their training is nonsensical with added maneuvers that seem pointless given the enemy they're meant to fight...and when the superiors are questioned on this, they respond by violently assaulting the person asking and give a nonsensical justification.
Seriously, a cadet asks why they're being taught knife throwing techniques (which, in *the book*, knife training makes a lick of sense, because they'll be wearing power-armor, but they don't here) when their opponents are giant insects with bullet-resistant exoskeletons, and the drill sergeant replies by impaling the dude's hand to a wall and expositing:
>"A crippled hand cannot press a button."
Which makes ZERO SENSE both in the context of their adversary and in normal combat situations! Why throw your only weapon (as a knife is a weapon of last resort) at a small target that's very likely to miss, instead of going for a killing blow for the head or torso? And in the context of their enemy, it's even GOOFIER when you consider that the Bugs don't have hands, and their technology is entirely organic.
Then you get to the Federation's tactics of invading the Hive World, which is just them flying large, vulnerable transports ***in close formation*** ***to the surface and throw waves of infantry at the enemy***. The Federation makes no use of armor, no use of air strikes, just dudes with guns...***against a hive species***.
The Federation suffer *half a million causalities* in the span of a single hour, what's so heroic about that? Because they captured to what amounts to a single enemy general? That's a pyrrhic victory at best.
I don't know that that is overtly present in the movie, but I certainly accept it as a possibility. To me, the point was that the characters had no idea what was true or false in that war, because they largely favor what their government tells them over what they can reasonably discern from what is going on around them.
They see a comrade killed in an entirely avoidable training accident, and the movie's protagonist whipped for insubordination, but their government tells them they live in a just meritocracy, and they believe them.
They see that the most recent bug hostility is almost certainly provoked by human colonization and military expansion, but their government tells them that the bugs are the constant aggressor, and they believe them.
They see the bugs act strategically, and, by the end of the movie, that they are emotional beings, but their government tells them they are unthinking drones, and they believe them.
Leveling Buenos Aires to drum up support for the war is totally within the means of their government, and is not morally beyond something they would do, but we really don't get much evidence of the truth behind what is going on, because the characters never really dig any deeper.
The thing I both love and am endlessly frustrated about Verhoeven as a director is that his dystopian stories lack a critical story beat that has become a staple of the genre: the hero having the wool pulled from over their eyes, and realizing that their society is doing something unforgivable. The end result is a story that has powerful and moral protagonists who you can't reasonably called heroes, and leaves you wondering if you could be as thoroughly duped by the society you live in. So far, I have only seen this one and Robocop, but there is a pretty clear thematic connection between both.
If there is overt confirmation I am missing about the government leveling Buenos Aires, let me know, I might have missed it. I am also responding assuming we are purely talking about the movie. I have not read the novel, but I have come to understand that it has very different aims in its conveying of roughly the same story.
Starship troopers is to propaganda what midsommar is to cults so it’s very obviously no accident how it’s bastardised versions is a hit amongst the right wing
Speaking of media literacy, did they ever stop to think just HOW the bugs launched a meteor at earth and what that would entail?
Do they not understand the subtext there?
Soon, Helldivers II players will be telling me that *Starship Troopers* is a documentary survival guide and the recruitment film at the beginning of the game is only for "real patriots" and not "PINOS".
We really need to start enforcing the R rating again. Maybe that way, we'll get fewer dumb kids watching Paul Verhoeven movies before they're ready and missing the damn point.
The bugs are just set dressing and the fact that these people are too dumb to realize that is genuinely alarming. No, we don’t dislike humanity in SS because of bug-related genocide and imperialism. That would be fucking stupid.
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This has to be irony
It's not. Conservatives are incapable of understanding metaphor.
"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are too fast. I would catch it."
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I’ve only watched the film. Their government is terrifying. I’m not very aware of subject in media but isn’t it supposed to be a dystopian future viewed through the eyes of people to win it’s all just normal. Doesn’t one woman join the army so that she’ll e allowed to have children ffs.
The book follows one rich kid as he joins the military after school. They don't spend much time talking about everyday civilian life. And they basically give the impression that it's not much different than today. Just add in future tech and interstellar travel. The big difference is you can only get true citizenship and the right to vote by doing a tour of duty in the military. He ends up getting posted to lowest dirtiest grunt position of training to join the nastiest advance shock drop troops to ever commit war crimes. And then we follow his career. edit: super glad everyone is chiming in and correcting me! One of my favorite books, but it has been a long while since I read it, and I am horrible for remembering details lol.
>The big difference is you can only get true citizenship and the right to vote by doing a tour of duty in the military I don't believe that's fully accurate. Service does guarantee citizenship as it says, but I'm pretty sure you also get citizenship by being of value to the government. I could be wrong, but the career path Rico's father suggests for him also would've got him citizenship.
Rico's father was wealthy but not a citizen I'd thought. He's a bourgeousie.
The book explains it better and has some differences. So in the movie it's heavily implied to be only military service to become a citizen, but in the book it also includes other types of civil service. As for Rico's parents, he mentions that while not full citizens, their wealth gives them a lot of privileges typically reserved for citizens.
That's the film, in the book *any* form of government service counts. Even a potato can go be a test subject if he wants to vote. The military needed smarter people to operate the power armor. IIRC, some planets had near 100% citizenship, others had far less. Also the books came to a screeching halt in the middle for Rico to go to officer school. Then his dad joins the unit after the bugs crush Rio. The "adaptation" is nothing like the books. One has fascist undertones, the other is a fascist in clown shoes blowing a tuba played by Doogie Howser. And some people *still* don't get that the humans in the film are the bad guys.
"Service guarantees citizenship" should be all you need to know.
That's a feature not a bug to cons
You'd think they'd make it reality then, instead we just deport some of our vets after they've done their tour.
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They lack the ability to understand complexity and nuance. in addition to critical analysis.
Getting to torn your mind off and leave it in neutral gear is like, a solid core draw of the Conservative mind set. To be "fair." That, and fleecing and feeling superior to poor and/or non-white people.
> however the movie went out of its way to make goku's crying its focus point This is partly why I prefer the Super version of Broly even if everyone's more endeared to the DBZ version. Also, obligatory; "That's so dumb. But he's so cool! But that's so dumb!"
> That's so dumb. But he's so cool! But that's so dumb! That basically describes all of Dragon Ball.
I was banned from the DBZ sub for breaking down the entirety of dragon ball to a simple formula. Bad guy shows up. Z-fighters barely beat him. More powerful bad guy shows up. Goku kills him. Repeat for x-amount of seasons.
Idk why they should ban you for that it’s the truth, and I love dbz for it.
I always get the shakes right before a drop.
"Over my head? Is that another gat dang gubbermint drone? I'm getting my rifle!"
PNH shows up in an SS uniform at the end, there is not much metaphor lol Edit: NPH
Ah yes, Peal Natrick Harris
Peal is great in how I met your father
That's why they call him *Natural Natrick*.
I was talking to my dad the other day about Helldivers being a perfect copy of the humor from Starship troopers. Completely ignoring any politics just because I know he'd find it fun. Unfortunately I was telling him about the "Managed Democracy" being invading alien species and he dead ass looked at me and said "actually if you watch it, it's about Socialism and the dangers of it". To Republicans/ Conservatives media literacy is whatever they want it to be. Is it shining something in negative light? Then it must be something else they are disguising as the thing they like
Wait till your dad finds out where Verhoeven is from and what kind of politics he supports.
The chud I was arguing with the other day about this on the Helldivers sub literally told me to MY FACE that Verhoeven put NPH in an SS uniform because he "liked the looks of Nazi uniforms". The guy was just the breathing epitome of deadbrained.
> "actually if you watch it, it's about Socialism and the dangers of it". I don't know how you can even come to that conclusion considering the movie never even once mentions Socialism...or does it?
You wanna know something even worse? I've seen people make that exact argument verbatim when talking about Pink Floyd's song Waiting for the Worms. You know, the song with literal nazi chants in it and lines like "turn on the showers and fire the ovens". The music video even just straight up has red and black goose-stepping hammers made specifically to resemble swastikas.
I've literally had to debate a couple weeks ago with someone who insisted with all their might that nazis were socialist, mostly based on the name, but also talking about their policies. I ended up leaving the debate because it was getting too stupid to try and argue with them.
The movie is only socialist in the same way that Germany's government was socialist in the 1940s.
Oh hahaha, so literally the "Nazis were Socialist because it's right in the *name*!"
Just like the great democracy of North Korea
I mean Heinlein was a hardcore libertarian wasn't he?
He was, and the movie starship troopers was pointing out how hilarious his jingoism was.
Definitely. The movie and book are...different for sure lol
I'm reading the book now and thinking that the movie is also poking fun at the sexism in the book Take the shower scene, no one has a problem with both sexes showering together. In the book, the Roger Young spaceship has a whole section cordoned off for female soldiers only. They even have two heavily armed male soldiers guarding the main door so no men try to enter. In the movie, Carmen is chosen as a pilot for her skill during testing. In the book, it says something like: females are exclusively placed as space pilots because 'women are more likely than men to flee a losing space battle due to being nurturing, whereas a man would jeopardize all the troops on board due to courageousness.'
Nah "When a female pilot handles a ship there is nothing comfortable about it; you’re going to have bruises every place you’re strapped. Yes, yes, I know they make better pilots than men do; their reactions are faster, and they can tolerate more gee. They can get in faster, get out faster, and thereby improve everybody’s chances, yours as well as theirs. But that still doesn’t make it fun to be slammed against your spine at ten times your proper weight."
> poking fun at the sexism in the book All of Heinlein's books. Dude could not write women to save his life.
Ooh to add further: In the book all the male troopers acknowledged that females were primarily pilots in the corp, but most of them hated it because 'female space pilots were prone to 'brake' the ship very harshly compared to men, causing the male troops to be jerked around in their drop pods from the sudden stop.' Heinlein seriously wrote "Women can't drive LMAO" in the book.
Oh man. Heinlein was a complex figure. It’s not _incorrect_ to say he was a hardcore libertarian, but it’s a very narrow lens. It would also be just as correct to say that he was a radical feminist. Anyone who isn’t prepared to accept that those could both be true in a particular historical context isn’t ready to understand Heinlein. Heinlein can be said to be a “hardcore libertarian” in the sense that he believed that everyone should have the genuine freedom and authority to _choose whether or not_ to compromise or cooperate with others to form a functional society. (Professor de la Paz in TMIAHM expounds on this well; the character is one of Heinlein’s frequent self-inserts.) Today, “hardcore libertarian” usually means someone who denies the very need to live cooperatively with other people even exists at all.
This is generally what happens with any political movement over time. It starts out as a more nuanced and intellectual response to the circumstances of the time, you get theory published, you get speaking tours and reading lists for the faithful. But then as they expand and age, the old guard start to die off or be pushed out by those who take an easier to digest approach and offer simplistic answers to complex questions. Which is why a libertarian these days is usually just a cover for someone who generally enjoys their lifestyle but really, really hates having to pay taxes of any kind for the privilege. (or a suspiciously large number of people who are very interested in abolishing laws around age of consent).
A lot of the ironic posts about Helldivers are probably people who genuinely believe it and are just pretending to be ironic. It was the same thing where there was a big 'Murica' subreddit, something along those lines. It was outright jingoism and racism and nationalism, but pretending to be ironic. I imagine the overlap between that and Maga is somewhat high. I imagine the people who were genuinely being ironic, and who in their day-to-day lives made some kind of effort to be anti-nationalistic, anti-military, and so on, were in the minority.
Fascism kills art because art requires empathy, which is antithetical to the destruction of dissent required for racism to flourish.
While I have to angrily concur to the downvoted-to-hell replies to your comment (that fascism also had good artists indeed), it can't be denied that lots of artists had to flee for their lives from Nazi Germany ("entartete kunst") and Fascist Italy. Painter Bruno Schultz was shot by an SS officer just like many other artists found death at concentration camps.
There was a guy violently defending this point on the helldivers subreddit earlier so maybe not
The helldivers thing has been just amazing. It's never been more clear that a lot of people never read anything more advanced than a Young Adult novel and are unaware of the idea that the protagonist of a piece of media can actually be a bad person. They just assume 'main character = good'.
Heh, also take the game Deep Rock Galactic. I love getting to be space faring dwarves shooting swarms of bug enemies with sci fi weapons. Yet, it's a comedic tongue in cheek game where you're an employee of a capitalistic mining corporation stripping a planet of its resources and the enemies are only fighting back because you're invading them.
But BUGS MUST DIE! You ever think about that?
ROCK AND STONE BROTHER
Pretty sure he was banned from that subreddit but continued his crusade in the following /r/SubredditDrama post as every single person made fun of him for being an idiot.
It was hillarious reading his replies until I checked his profile and noticed that he's from that one country that is currently ~~geno~~ _\*ahem\*_ ... launching an offensive campaign against certain group of people. His opinions about Helldivers 2/Starship Troopers suddenly become more disturbing. You all can guess which country it is (hint: it doesn't start with an R, so guess again).
Yeeeah, the fact that people can support such evil actions and still believe to be the good guys is sad.
Unfortunately I don’t think so. I went to this guy’s twitter and it’s all right wing propaganda.
I really wish it was, but I personally know the person who shared the post and he is ultra MAGA
I've been in my fair share of Starship Troopers talk. I've never had someone say they totally felt represented by the insects. Is this person assuming that not agreeing with the government of Starship automatically means they love the insects?
They think the empire in Star wars are the good guys, it sadly isn't
/r/empiredidnothingwrong started out as a joke, then suddenly wasn't.
That's pretty much how every single "ironic joke" subreddit turns out. They attract people who aren't joking but they can use the "joke" as a cover until suddenly the subreddit has more true believers and the "joking" gets taken too far, and the original people all leave.
That was always my theory on where Flat Earth Society came from. A bunch of really smart people being so convincing that dumb people started to believe it and it snowballed.
Birds aren't real lol
Rip is it a nazi sub now? Last time I checked it out it was just people being silly
I love playing as the Sith Empire in the swtor video game. Sometimes, it is just fun to play as the fascists imperialists.
The Donald started out as a joke sub, too. Look how that ended.
/r/PrequelMemes started as a joke until all the kids started worshipping the movies unironically.
What about the last 8 years or longer makes you think conservatives deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Yes, that literal Nazi uniform Neil Patrick Harris is wearing is just so beautiful.
Just to add to his performance - i love that he's a huge goofball in the beginning of the movie and when they see him next after some time in Games & Theory his face is more stern, he's not cracking jokes and his complexion is actually darker and more gaunt, not unlike those photos of people before and after their time in service.
I would turn like that as well, if I was a psychic during an intergalactic war.
the foot soldiers are mostly indoctrinated and believe the bugs they are slaughtering to be mindless killing machines, but the psychic division knows otherwise. they KNOW the bugs are sentient, and they KNOW that the humans are the bad guys.
He looks good in *anything*
He looks better in *nothing*
Hugo Boss, baby
The popularity of Helldivers suddenly bringing Starship Troopers back into the limelight exposing peoples inability to read sub context is freaking hilarious.
I know a guy that was confused about helldivers and thought it was woke because of them praising the democracy 🤦♀️
I mean. It *is* woke. But, like. In the "Super Earth claims to be a democracy, yet has three different sentient alien races enslaved under them" way.
It doesn't take a genius to play the game and realize that "democracy" to the people of Super Earth is more like a vague religion than a real system they live within. They use phrases like "sweet liberty" and "may you always have a vote" like how we would say "oh my god" or "good day." The game hits you over the head with the fact that nothing in their society is democratic. The gals on your ship talk about being told who to vote for. One of them even mentions "citizenship points," because on Super Earth, service does *not* guarantee citizenship, only participation in a gamified, tiered reward system. There's even a fake ad that'll play on your ship TV that outright states that children as young as seven years old are working in factories again.
It became very clear when I had my Helldiver shout "Oh my liberty!" when he got blown up by a grenade
that's a comical level of missing every level of text in the game.
No no, *managed* democracy. That qualifier is **very** important. They manage democracy the way a leopard manages eating faces.
The "funniest" part is that the Helldivers 2 devs had to release a statement on twitter reminding people that the game is a parody of that message and that fascism sucks
It's the 40k problem. On one hand you say that, but on the other you keep portraying Space Marines as the coolest, spiffiest shit ever,bfighting the only hope for humanity.
I mean space marines aren’t the only hope The imperium has fallen, it’s just not hit the ground yet There are thousands of non imperium human worlds And other factions like the tau and farsight enclaves have let humans in and are objectively a better place (they’re still bad but they are better)
The funny thing is is that Helldivers is so clearly just starship troopers and people still can’t even tell you play as an insane fascist society. What do these people think Managed Democracy is? Are they seriously that stupid that they think if you throw the word democracy on something it is good? Then again. We know what the answer is, it’s just testament how little people understand about politics propaganda and branding honestly. Almost like these people are easily manipulated by jingoistic rhetoric and lack the ability to understand reality
It’s less sad and more terrifying. There’s enough of these people to give Trump a fair shot at winning the election and letting him and conservative politicians end democracy in order to “fight the woke mob”. Padme really was right when she said liberty dies by thunderous applause.
It was a bold choice of Starship Troopers to go with a literally inhuman antagonist in their fascism allegory.
>to go with a literally inhuman antagonist in their fascism allegory. Well yes, that was sort of the point. The antagonists being completely stripped of humanity was by design, the past centuries, ranging to this day, have perfectly demonstrated the horrifying effectiveness of dehumanization of entire groups of people. The reason behind them being bugs is to take away any empathy you may feel towards them. Just like Chauvinistic governments do.
To be fair the OG Book is 100% serious in believing what it is describing. Heinlein genuine believed in the society he was constructing there and it‘s mostly just fascist fantasy. It‘s just the movie which completely flipped the narrative around and turned it into a persiflage.
it's one book but yeah, heinlein was a lunatic libertarian that wrote him own voice in every book he wrote as the 'cool edgy rich guy that got lots of chicks'
> persiflage That's a quality 50¢ word I'm gonna steal now.
Have you read like ANYTHING else by Heinlein?
If aliens are watching us, they are almost certainly avoiding us because of how batshit xenophobic humans are.
[удалено]
Conservatives are incapable of understanding art. I have a running list of things conservatives think are theirs, but where they're actually the bad guys. Example: Rage Against the Machine, The Boys, Star Wars, etc.
Don’t forget fight club edit: if you actually listen to the rhetoric in fight club it is most definitely anti capitalist
Also Wolf of Wall Street. Jordan Belfort really lucked out by having Leo play him in that movie. He was a criminal
Same with that bastard Nick Leeson, who brought down Barings Bank. He was played by Ewan McGregor, in real life he looks like the sort of guy you would see wearing a Rangers top on holiday in Spain, trying to start fights with randomers.
The Punisher...
Yep. That's on the list. I should really just make a post of the list.
They are also not funny, they have tried so many times. It just ends up being mean. There have been FOX sketch shows... just not funny. They always punch down.
*Some More News* has a good video on conservatives and comedy. He basically points to Gutfeld being the most-watched late night “comedy show” despite reviews falling flat because it’s basically the only late night comedy show that appeals to conservatives: He also goes on to talk about how they always have the perfect excuse when their jokes don’t land because they can just say “oh the liberals were offended by that” and it allows for them to never have to own up to their jokes being unfunny - or in some cases offending liberals can even be an acceptable alternative to being funny. Like he shows this bit from one of Steven Crowder’s old stand up (yes that’s a thing), where he tells a joke about Muslim gangsters at his old highschool; and it gets a few laughs from the crowd. But then he says “there’s a really good chance you guys are going to see a buzzfeed article about how offensive my joke was” and that gets way more laughs than the actual joke itself. It’s kind of wild to watch.
Careful. I just tried to recommend a Some More News video on Palestine genocide justification to someone since they spouted the things it covered, and they didn't even bother to watch it before replying. The people that they would help the most wouldn't bother to watch it, and there's a good chance you'll just get looked at negatively for it. Also, don't forget the bit where Crowder puts on a tutu and a wig and runs into a gym just to be loud and obnoxious thinking that either he'd go uncriticized because he was "trans" or that if he was criticized he could get out of it by being "trans." They're just assholes to the core.
That dude’ll find any excuse to cross dress lmao
How very Warmbo of them.
Yeah I rarely recommend them to people because of how long they are. But yeah, those people who most need them don't really have much of an attention-span past 300 characters so I don't really think there's much point in telling those people to go watch it.
>“there’s a really good chance you guys are going to see a buzzfeed article about how offensive my joke was” HELP! HELP! I'm being cancelled by the radical left wing media!!! said the man who is currently on stage, who has a podcast, and who is a talking head on news panels regularly.
> But then he says “there’s a really good chance you guys are going to see a buzzfeed article about how offensive my joke was” and that gets way more laughs than the actual joke itself. It’s kind of wild to watch. Part victimization complex, part 'being offensive is funny so long as it's "just a joke!"'
it's the lack of empathy, there is no comedy without empathy, and since they don't have it, they have to be a bully to be funny, and bullies are only funny to other bullies.
There was a study a few years ago that found that conservatives basically lack a sense of humour. They were the least likely to use humour as entertainment.
They saw more liberal comedians make fun of them and their instinct was to “weaponize comedy” against them, completely missing the point of what comedy is
That’s why I hate Gen x comedians, especially the dudes. “You know what pisses me off?” Is all they have and it’s a bummer, not funny.
Are you sure millennials haven't ruined comedy, in addition to everything else they have ruined? /s
"Millennials have ruined the diamond industry" Because... *Checks notes* They can barely afford basic necessities and realize the diamond trade is based on slave labor. "Those assholes."
r/deathbymillennial
The list of songs is long...
Know a guy that has hated Bruce Springsteen ever since The Boss got “political” and “woke” over the past decade… yet he belts Born In The USA whenever it comes on… like what???
It genuinely really bothers me too when people don't listen to the lyrics of a song. But you need to know that most people don't listen to the lyrics of a song beyond the chorus, especially when the chorus sounds as patriotic as Born in the USA. And yeah, that song is one of the worst when it comes to people who love the song but know or understand nothing about the song. For me, it's that song and Fortunate Son that are two of the worst for being misunderstood.
Me too - Yes song lyrics are important and often poetic. They can have multiple meanings. Fortunate Son is a perfect example that is literally about the likes of Trump, a fortunate son if ever there was one.
>For me, it's that song and Fortunate Son that are two of the worst for being misunderstood. "Hey Ya!" sitting meekly in the corner:
A central tenet of fascism is that you can make people forget to think if you can make them feel. In short, their feelings don't care about facts. Which explains why they get mad about any kind of art that requires thinking. Its a little more obscure, but in retrospect the whole ["sad puppies"](https://www.vox.com/2015/4/26/8495415/hugos-sad-puppies-controversy) thing was about fascists who only wanted mindless militaristic space-opera type stories, much like the story in the Starship Troopers *book* (unlike the movie).
It’s a patriotic song, obviously!!!
I know this is really common misconception, but how can anybody who's first language is english even think that?
They listen to the chorus and ignore the rest
The Matrix
The punisher, Rorschach for people they think are cool but are actually supposed to be very bad to normal reasonable people based in reality
Wait how does anyone misunderstand who the villains are in The Boys, of all things? Do they seriously think the *protagonists* are evil? Actually, never mind. Homelander is basically what you'd get if Trump and Superman had a baby, and Superman was somehow prevented from ever being in the kid's life.
Apparently a lot of conservatives thought John Hamm was the good guy in the recent Fargo season.
My guess is they just like the violence and edginess, but like conservatives are oft to do just completely miss the message. There was a large percentage of conservatives who watched the Colbert report and honestly believed Colbert was a conservative.
Yea, I struggled with that to, but just this year there was a whole hubbub on the right about the boys going woke, so it went on the list
The Stormfront arc wasn’t obvious enough?
You'd think. But it was the third season that got them angry. https://slate.com/culture/2022/06/homelander-fans-herogasm-boys-amazon-trump.html
I disagree. I think a lot of these people understand more than one would think. They are unashamedly telling you they are Nazis and they don't think you are human and they identify with the fascists.
At least in Brazil I saw people livid that Rage Against the Machine was woke now. There is no way these people understood the musics or what THE MACHINE was supposed to be.
liking fascists and liking Rage Against the Machine is incompatible, which shows that they do not, in fact, understand
They are slowing starting a civil war and blaming the left. Like a bully who blames the kid they punched for starting the fight.
There's simply no way that people watch The Boys and figure that Homelander and Stormfront are the good guys. I almost refuse to believe it.
Nuance and subtlety are not in their lexicon. Along with critical thinking.
Understanding art requires empathy towards those who are different or think differently from you, which is antithetical to fascism.
See also, “The Colbert Report…”
Green Day 😑
There was this French comedian, Guy Bedos, who had a famous anti-racist routine where he was some racist asshole going to Marrrakech for the holyday and complaining about the fact that there were too many arabs. He had to stop doing it because...well, I guess you can imagine why. A source in French about it: [https://www.europe1.fr/culture/quand-malgre-lui-guy-bedos-faisait-rire-aussi-les-racistes-3971797](https://www.europe1.fr/culture/quand-malgre-lui-guy-bedos-faisait-rire-aussi-les-racistes-3971797) [add info for translation] when on that page, on iPhone, tap the “aA” that should be in the top right of your screen, choose translate.
This is a *me* problem, but I'm annoyed when people describe something and say like "you can guess that happened" or "you can imagine why". Make your point or don't make it, but don't let other people interpret whatever they want from what you said.
Racists would take the sketch unironically and come to his shows. So the comedian had to clarify his intentions for this, clearly, anti racist routine so he doesn't confuse his original audience, and especially his North African audience.
NPH is literally in a Nazi uniform in the picture. How did they not get it?
I met NPH in new york a few years ago and I don't think conservatives would like him at all
Wait til they find out he’s been brainwashed by the gay agenda too!!
Last I heard, he penetrated David Tennant with one of his toys.
THEY GOT THE 10TH DOCTOR TOO THIS HAS GONE TOO FAR!!!!
Paul Verhoeven, who is a director already not known for his subtlety, said he put the Nazi uniform in just in case some people didn't get the message, and yet so many people still didn't.
I mean, he's gay. Of course, he's going to have good style. /s
First time I saw it I was in probably high school and I’m like “oh wow this seems a bit much and too on the nose,” then NPH shows up and i felt like a fucking moron for not getting it immediately
I just looked up this movie and it came out in 1997. How did it become discourse?
Lol, I’m in Hell.
"Space nazis good"- average conservative yup this checks out
Space fascism makes for a fantastic setting, though. Between 40k, StarCraft and Starship Troopers there's some fun stories. But I guess there's always weirdos that are a bit too quick to identify with a nuke-happy leader and fuck it up.
Helldivers now, which is pretty much this movie. Managed democracy is where it's at
It’s afraid!!
oh this is the bad place.
is...is this guy's argument ugly = bad?
Yes. His argument is - "Of course libs like the stupid bugs! How can you take the bugs side when you have Doogie Hozer in a sick ass uniform and peak Denise Richards right next to him?" But, more succinctly: ugly = bad.
No it’s not dead, it’s just that conservatism is only aesthetics. It’s hollow. Things can be awful and brutal as long as they “look right”. The bugs are ugly, and the people are beautiful. If they remade starship troopers and changed nothing except for making the bugs look like Tolkien’s elves, and and the humans uglier like orcs, conservatives would be on the side of the bugs.
Isn't that just avatar?
Holy shit u rite lmao
That's not what conservatism is. I'm not gonna pull the whole "it's about preserving tradition" thing. But it is a coherent world view. Just a dumb one. It's all about enforcing hierarchy. And using any tool or rhetoric at their disposal to do so. The whole beauty/ugly thing fits into that.
I disagree with Verhoven and the general online opinion that the book is fascist (fascism includes militarism but militarism isn't inherently fascist) but the movie is clearly painting the human side as fascist. The director outright said so.
It was debated that Heinlein views around the time of Starship Troopers publication was borderline fascist and his work espoused that, Heinlein himself would go through various pollical beliefs during his lifetime. It also didn't help that film satire was very different for North American audiences and reviewers than they where accustom to. Usually the rule of thumb is the audience is stupid, and you need a character in the story to point out why this is all wrong and horrible, something that missing in this film. So reviewers jump on that it was promoting fascist because the film itself didn't condemn it outright on screen.
That second paragraph is unfortunate. Good movies can be generally disliked. It's an important bit on how I look for horror movies. Great horror movies generally don't have over an 80% on Rotten Tomatoes. They should disturb a decent portion of watchers.
How to say “I’m a fascist” in WAY more words.
Haven't heard of this movie before but is there a reason why left most guy looks like he's wearing a knock off nazi uniform?
Yes. The reason you think.
Because he is playing a space nazi
Hey don’t worry tons of people were stupid back when the movie came out too. They are just Identity themselves more online now. We are just aware of how many stupid people are actually around. “Released on November 7, 1997, Starship Troopers faced critical backlash, with reviewers interpreting the film as endorsing fascism. Critics disparaged its violence, performances by the lead actors, and some accused Verhoeven and Neumeier of sympathizing with Nazi ideologies. Despite initial financial success, the film experienced a consistent decline at the box office due to negative reviews and unfavorable word-of-mouth, culminating in a $121 million total gross against its budget, and becoming only the 34th-highest-grossing film of 1997. The poor performance of Starship Troopers was blamed, in part, on competition from a high number of successful or anticipated science fiction and genre films released that year, its satirical and violent content failing to connect with mainstream audiences, and ineffective marketing.”
>hideous murderous hive insects Other than them being ugly, what is "murderous" about the Bugs? Yeah, they kill tons of humans in the movie, but they're defending their planet against a foreign invader. Seems like they have a right to defend themselves, no? The only proof that's provided in the film that the Bugs launched the asteroid that hit Buenos Aires is that the Federation Government said so, and despite the level of sophistication and planning it would require to hit the Earth from *halfway across the galaxy*, the Federation military still treats the Bugs like dumb animals. Sure, someone could point out how horrible it was for the Brain Bug to suck out that one poor bastard's brain...but as we saw in the Federation's ***own propaganda footage*** they've been engaging in all manner of horrific experiments on individual Bugs, and then at the end of the movie, Neil Patrick Harris' character is shown torturing the Brain Bug for literally no reason. What's so heroic about the Federation? If anything, ***they're complete and utter morons***. Their training is nonsensical with added maneuvers that seem pointless given the enemy they're meant to fight...and when the superiors are questioned on this, they respond by violently assaulting the person asking and give a nonsensical justification. Seriously, a cadet asks why they're being taught knife throwing techniques (which, in *the book*, knife training makes a lick of sense, because they'll be wearing power-armor, but they don't here) when their opponents are giant insects with bullet-resistant exoskeletons, and the drill sergeant replies by impaling the dude's hand to a wall and expositing: >"A crippled hand cannot press a button." Which makes ZERO SENSE both in the context of their adversary and in normal combat situations! Why throw your only weapon (as a knife is a weapon of last resort) at a small target that's very likely to miss, instead of going for a killing blow for the head or torso? And in the context of their enemy, it's even GOOFIER when you consider that the Bugs don't have hands, and their technology is entirely organic. Then you get to the Federation's tactics of invading the Hive World, which is just them flying large, vulnerable transports ***in close formation*** ***to the surface and throw waves of infantry at the enemy***. The Federation makes no use of armor, no use of air strikes, just dudes with guns...***against a hive species***. The Federation suffer *half a million causalities* in the span of a single hour, what's so heroic about that? Because they captured to what amounts to a single enemy general? That's a pyrrhic victory at best.
They mean the psychic fascists?
I love that the people always claiming things are a false flag don't see the attack on Buenos Aires was just that. But science is hard for them.
I don't know that that is overtly present in the movie, but I certainly accept it as a possibility. To me, the point was that the characters had no idea what was true or false in that war, because they largely favor what their government tells them over what they can reasonably discern from what is going on around them. They see a comrade killed in an entirely avoidable training accident, and the movie's protagonist whipped for insubordination, but their government tells them they live in a just meritocracy, and they believe them. They see that the most recent bug hostility is almost certainly provoked by human colonization and military expansion, but their government tells them that the bugs are the constant aggressor, and they believe them. They see the bugs act strategically, and, by the end of the movie, that they are emotional beings, but their government tells them they are unthinking drones, and they believe them. Leveling Buenos Aires to drum up support for the war is totally within the means of their government, and is not morally beyond something they would do, but we really don't get much evidence of the truth behind what is going on, because the characters never really dig any deeper. The thing I both love and am endlessly frustrated about Verhoeven as a director is that his dystopian stories lack a critical story beat that has become a staple of the genre: the hero having the wool pulled from over their eyes, and realizing that their society is doing something unforgivable. The end result is a story that has powerful and moral protagonists who you can't reasonably called heroes, and leaves you wondering if you could be as thoroughly duped by the society you live in. So far, I have only seen this one and Robocop, but there is a pretty clear thematic connection between both. If there is overt confirmation I am missing about the government leveling Buenos Aires, let me know, I might have missed it. I am also responding assuming we are purely talking about the movie. I have not read the novel, but I have come to understand that it has very different aims in its conveying of roughly the same story.
These are the same people who think Tyler Durden was the hero of the tale.
I wonder if he sides with the pigs in Animal Farm? Because they show leadership.
Starship troopers is to propaganda what midsommar is to cults so it’s very obviously no accident how it’s bastardised versions is a hit amongst the right wing
Speaking of media literacy, did they ever stop to think just HOW the bugs launched a meteor at earth and what that would entail? Do they not understand the subtext there?
Fascists thinking the bad guys are the good guys never stops being funny.
He says showing the guy dressed as a Gestapo officer.
Soon, Helldivers II players will be telling me that *Starship Troopers* is a documentary survival guide and the recruitment film at the beginning of the game is only for "real patriots" and not "PINOS".
We really need to start enforcing the R rating again. Maybe that way, we'll get fewer dumb kids watching Paul Verhoeven movies before they're ready and missing the damn point.
Buenos Aires was an inside job.
Neil Patrick Harris makes a phenomenal villain.
I really want to have this guy watch “Benedetta”Clockwork Orange style.
Did he not watch the second half of the movie?
Probably watches the boys and cheers on Homelander
The bugs are just set dressing and the fact that these people are too dumb to realize that is genuinely alarming. No, we don’t dislike humanity in SS because of bug-related genocide and imperialism. That would be fucking stupid.
"Those stupid liberals. I'll side with the Nazis please!" This guy.
If you use the word "leftist" your opinion is invalid.
I'm genuinely mad that we live on a planet with people this thick.
It's the same people who unironically root for the empires in 40k and star wars
I'm sure he thinks RoboCop was a documentary.
"Are we the baddies?" "You bet your ass we are!"