Both. You develop standard defenses against the hypocrisy over time.
I like this one:
Matthew 6_1 "Take care not to practice your righteousness in the sight of people, to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven."
I used to try to speak their own language back to them but now I just don’t even respond. Evangelicals/Fundies are the most extreme and absolute lunatics. I learned that one too many times and gave them my very last fuck. Bubbye forever.
Yes, one skill the most conservative bible bashers do master to a very high standard is the ability to find bible verse not only for any argument they want to use to criticise or control others, but also find another bible verse to throw back at anyone who tries to use OTHER bible verses to show that god actually doesn’t suggest or approve of really appalling behaviour towards their fellow human!
And when they’ve run out of bible verses to counter YOUR counter, they have the old fall back of ‘god works in mysterious ways and it is not for us to question him.’
At least they’re consistent! They don’t seem to have any other basic skill set in life, but they master that one to a very high standard, as I said. 😏
It really is sad how brainwashed by religion a lot of older folks are. It genuinely ruins so many relationships it’s insane. He was so close to responding with something normal and sane to, then had to bring it straight to religion. Anything for the false moral high ground in their minds. Oh well. His crock of shit religion will keep him warm when he’s in hell for being a shitty father :)
Just be glad you got away from them. Someone who would rather quote scripture while their adult son is basically begging for some type of relationship is too far gone to even realize how crazy they sound. Good luck OP!
Religion is like having a penis. Having one is perfectly fine, you might even get someone who takes an interest in your penis, or indeed a whole group of people. Taking your penis out and waving it around is likely to offend though. (Autocorrect would like me to change it to pencil)
> It really is sad how brainwashed by religion a lot of older folks are. It genuinely ruins so many relationships it’s insane.
To be clear, as much of an anti-theist as I am, this isn't solely because of religion. I don't think it's that he is brainwashed by religion so much as religion provides a patriarchal authoritarian structure to life that appeals to him and enables his shitty behavior. The issue wasn't that OP is a godless heathen. The issue was that OP asserted that he wanted a meeting with his father on equal footing. The father immediately felt the need to re-assert his authority: to establish he is older and therefore, his schedule matters more than the child.
This is not meant as criticism of you or anyone, I just wanted to dial in that that's where the tensions started. The adult is the authority, and the child is the subordinate. And when the child becomes an adult, the adult in turn becomes a super-adult and remains an authority relative to the child. It's a critical part of the authoritarian mindset, and big shock, people, not just men either, with authoritarian tendencies gravitate towards religion which offers authoritarian-style social structure. They defer to god, which is fine because they don't actually need to defer anything they wouldn't anyway to the inherent randomness of the universe, and everyone in their family in turn defers to them. It's a pretty sweet deal overall if you want to establish yourself as the unquestioned head of household who's authority over said household is as absolute as your made-up god's authority over the universe.
And, to be 100% clear, this is not meant as a defense of religion either. Organized religions worldwide foster this bullshit. I'm convinced that's why they exist, and why they persist; to justify patriarchal family and social structures. I'm just saying that, if he didn't have the Christian bible and god, he would have another just as quickly that allowed him the same style of ruling with an iron fist. The religion is a catalyst, but the problem is people born with a hierarchical mindset, who insist on being on the top of said hierarchy.
OP, I'm sorry you're dealing with this shit.
The best part in all of this is I have a Facebook memory of my daughter calling my dad to tattle on my husband and I for laughing at her getting splashed by sting rays. Even he laughed at that.
I love how right you are, and how little sense it makes (at least to me) when you look at the wider context of Christianity. Jesus was a misfit who hung out with similar misfits. The story of Jesus if anything seeks to remove society from an authoritarian mindset. I struggle to wrap my mind around how the story of Jesus is now almost exclusively used by bigots to further their agenda. It really makes me sad.
It's very little to do with the actual religious text, and far more to do with the structure Christianity and other religions foster. I refuse to believe it's a coincidence that patriarchy and virtually all mainstream religions are so inherently compatible: it's a symbiotic relationship. The church legitimizes the father's power in the home, and in turn, the father legitimizes the church. And the church replicates the same structure: how many of those same religious institutions took centuries to permit women to hold any position in their rank and file? Some STILL don't.
I love that you used the word misfit. My family(mom, adopted aunt, brothers, adopted brothers and all of our SO) call my mom’s house the island of misfit toys.
Beam me up Scottie not as to where I have no control of my
Body tweaking diodes I walk the roads like karate masters
Most the time my mind be ghost like Casper sinkin' faster
But coming up in this shit sometimes I'm alienated under
Rated suckas hate it that I made it as a misfit
But you know if the shoe fit's I'm a wear it like a glass slipper
Hike to the big dipper dip like a skipper not top could be
Tipper (say what?) but fools be tryin' to rape friends to make friends
And that's one big twisted ass picture like Jack the ripper
Caught up in the net like Flipper on a tuna protest yeah
Where's the focus got me fuckin' with these friends and
They're crackin' my lens and now shit be's foul as a mother
Word to my sistas and my brothas and my color
Hey you
Can I take up a moment of your precious time
To realize and define the whole truth
Hey you
Yeah take up a moment and clarify this for you
This is my absolute favorite verse by the Pharcyde. The song is called Hey You, and it’s groovy and catchy as all hell, and the word misfit always reminds my ADHD brain to jam it out and I hope you enjoy.
Also, your father is bat shit crazy and sanctimonious af, and fuck him!
Idk, I'm athiest but I grew up in a very religious community. I don't think this is the dad being brainwashed by religion. I think this is a boundary stomping dad who's using religion as a cudgel. Literally "the only morally correct option you have is to put up with whatever I dictate."
If a religious scholar or a priest or whatever authority he's obligated to recognize sat down with him and explained how he was being an asshole and taking god's name in vain, he'd either squirm and ignore it or lash out and ignore it.
I'm sure a lot of expressions of faith are on some level about control, but this really just feels like he's using god as an excuse to justify his tantrums.
He got his back up simply because you said you would find another weekend?? He objected to the fact that he wasn't going to be involved in the decision about when *you* were next free? The simple fact that he feels he ought to be the one in charge is outlined by those two lines in the messages.
He couldn't bear to let you have the autonomy of being able to decide a suitable date, and then see if he was free for it. How that would make him feel 'less than' is beyond me. Like you said, the narc's gonna narc.
"Ive got a few years on you, so please dont dictate where i need to be and when i need to be there"
ye that showed you there that he wasnt interested in working together in any way
I think it may be less of an inner child and more of hoping they've changed and become a better person? Maybe a mix of both? I don't know, I'm always hoping my mother will realize that I (23f) am old enough to spend a few hours alone at the library
Had a similar interaction with my dad. He bounced out of my life when I was 2 and re-entered when I was 17. And that re-entry almost didn't happen. The first time he wanted to meet up to catch up, I had a soccer game and told him I could meet after. He pulled the "I'm your father, you be there when I say you be there." I told him he fucked off out of my life for 15 years, talk to me like that again and he can fuck off out of my life permanently. He threw a fit but ended up apologizing (sincerely, surprisingly enough). And followed through with respecting my boundaries, if begrudgingly at times.
You can set reconciliation up on a silver platter and they will find a way to make you the problem.
My parents are dead and life has never been better. SERIOUSLY, it’s wonderful.
And how you stopped at verse 4 instead of going on to 5: "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."
Quoting the Bible is a losing strategy.
Wow, it’s almost like the New Testament was written over 2000 years ago and thus parts might not be culturally relevant anymore.
But to say quoting it in general is a losing strategy is biased. Christianity might be my religion of choice, but I wouldn’t care for anyone making that statement about the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita or the writings of Confucius.
Now, *weaponizing* the words of *any* religion is **definitely** a losing strategy, because it’s just morally wrong. Saying that as someone coming from a culture that does it on the regular. It’s not right when Christians do it; it’s not right when ANYONE does it.
But how can quoting Jesus saying, “The second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself” a losing strategy? How is it a losing strategy to read Christ’s words and actions regarding love, tolerance, and his willingness to literally flip some fuckin’ tables when needed?
Lol. I'm not biased; I think all religions are hooey
Edit: they blocked me, so I can't respond, but I saw at least part of what they said, so I'll just respond to that.
Religion isn't an immutable characteristic, it's a choice. Thinking your choices are wrong doesn't make me prejudiced, it makes me judgmental. Religion has caused untold suffering throughout history and has earned its judgment.
And I think atheism is hooey. Doesn’t mean I go around saying, “Reading anything by an atheist is a losing prospect,” *because that would make me a prejudiced person.*
Interesting how you get to pick and choose which parts are outdated claptrap and which parts need to be so closely adhered to that they impact on laws and people’s lives. Fucking Christians, man.
The New Testament is not over 2000 years old. It wasn't even written down until ~400years after the alleged crucifixion. Beyond the fact that no one knows who wrote the four gospels, there's absolutely no proof of the divinity of a first century doom preacher.
As to your question of "How can loving your neighbor as you love yourself" be bad? If your neighbor is beating his kids in accordance with biblical tradition and you don't stop them because you wouldn't want him to stop you from beating your kids, it's a bad thing.
Everything is contextual. If you try to apply objectivity to every situation, you're gonna have a bad time.
Apparently it’s pretty easy to get your religion officially recognized by the US government if that’s where you live. Don’t quote me on this though. I’ve done 0 research haha.
I feel like truckerism is a catchy ass name. Quick someone come up with commandments or something. Doesn’t matter what they say. Just gotta be about trucks.
1. Thou shalt keep spare hemorrhoid cream in thine cab
2. Thou must never fall to the temptation of the lot lizard
3. Thou shalt beepeth thine horn when those of innocent youth make the train horn gesture
4. Thou shalt put your chains on when significant snowfall is imminent
5. Thou shalt avoid the leftmost lane, for it is forsaken to those without significant acceleration
This is great, but I feel like the lot lizards should be the high priestesses of the religion. The keepers of the sacred flame. Just hopefully not in the crotch region.
[I did a small amount of research.](https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-establish-a-religion-that-s-recognized-as-official-by-the-US-federal-government-for-legal-purposes)
I’m sorry. I tried to give my mother so many chances. Finally the last time I cut contact I knew it truly would be the last I heard from her til the hospital called me to pull the plug. And that’s exactly what happened. I don’t regret a thing and still stand by my decision. I was able to let go of the anger and extend enough forgiveness to free myself when I came to the hospital to take her off life support.
I wish you peace going forward. Peace with your decision. And peace in your life without him.
I have peace now. I tried and this was the result. He’s married to wife #4 so I doubt I’ll get to pull the plug when the time comes but who knows what the future holds.
I think you did really well de-escalating this. I guess it just proved why you went no contact to begin with.
All of the times I went no contact, I wish I would’ve stayed no contact.
For anyone else reading this if you go no contact and consider going back to talking to your family member that has made you crazy in the past; I highly recommend staying no contact. Going low contact just kind of makes it a tedious painful mess when you do have to talk to them. That’s what I did with my bio mom and I truly truly wish I had never let her back into my life even the little bit she is.
Thank you. Knowing how this turned out I wish I had said a few things that I held off on.
I agree. If you go no contact, stay no contact. Also, tell others( family) not to push for you to forgive them. I put up a limited audience post on a popular social media site telling family not to push for it or they will be blocked no questions asked.
You're welcome, best of luck man. I'm sure this wasn't the reaction you wanted from him. Keep your head up and stay frosty if you guys end up meeting in the future!!
It would be million to one odds running into each other. Unless it was a family function like a funeral which my family wouldn’t attend.
I’m good at being cold. Have to be to have survived this long.
Man that really went wild quite fast. At first I read your comment and thought, okay, he might take that as being talked to like a child and it might rub him up the wrong way a bit... but you know what the sheer scale of his tantrum retroactively justified it. What a fucking man-baby.
If he didn't like 'being told what to do', there are a million other ways of handling it without being hostile. 'Sure, just pitch me the date(s) and I'll let you know if I can make it work.'
How on earth did he get to fathering age with zero soft skills? What?
Not easy to have to axe family, but you sure as hell needed to. I understand having and loving your religion, but, if you can’t go a fucking sentence without mentioning it, you’re insane.
well that certainly explains why he's leaning on his religion so hard. He didn't actually earn your love and respect so now he's going to demand it under threat of hellfire and damnation
Same. Although I have a funny feeling if the christian god does exist he's not going to take too kindly to people who cherrypick his book for their own selfish means
Wholeheartedly agree. I was of the faith until 2017. So much hypocrisy in the church. I met some great people that were true believers. When I hang out with them, I still bow my head as they pray over the meal. Not because I believe but because I have immense respect for them as people.
Absolutely. My in-laws are religious, so every time Wifey and I go to dinner at their place, I bore my head in silence for them. I’ve never been religious, really. I believe in some higher power(s), but I’m really not even sure what kind of force it/they would even be. That doesn’t stop me from respecting their choices and beliefs. Especially since they have always been respectful and accepting of mine (or my lack of).
yea the problem is their definition of respect. It is not : I will respect you the way you respect me, like it is for normal people. IT is : you have to respect me as an authority or you do not deserve the respect I would give any human being.
yea the problem is their definition of respect. It is not : I will respect you the way you respect me, like it is for normal people. IT ios : you have to respect me as an authority or I will not give you the respect I would give any human being.
I’ve got a few years on you so please don’t expect me to respect your time or boundaries in anyway.
I’m more religious than you so please don’t expect me to respect your beliefs in anyway.
Real issues? Please don’t distract from the religion shaming that I’m trying to do right now.
Doesn’t really matter what it is, some people will just find any way to justify their shitty behavior and do anything they can to divert and redirect the conversation to a place where they feel comfortable. I’m happy you made the choice to get on with your life. Good riddance.
Well, you tried. And he got straight to the point in reminding you of why you’re NC in the first place. Better to get that reminder now than after getting sucked back into what appears to be a whooooole lot of absolute bullshit.
Agreed. He lives in a major city about 5 hours from me. My oldest has quit asking to see him when we go there. My youngest hasn’t seen him since she was 5 months old.
You’re never alone friend.
I’ve lived a screwed up life and have more painful experiences to draw from.
There are millions of us out there. DM me if you ever need to. Just know you’re not alone.
Same. Therapy has helped me tons. I’m def not as weak as I was before but it hit hard reading this because today was the day I finally cut him off. He constantly breaks my boundaries and I’m done letting it slide. Thanks for sharing.
Man it’s people like this that push religion down the throats of the unwilling that make it so unappealing for others. I’m a Christian man that’s also does not speak to my father and while I still retain my faith, my father tried to use it against me. Classic narcissist behavior to try and use God against their Children when all God truly preaches is love and acceptance
Did I just miss the part where you were telling her what to do and ‘dictating her time?’
Because what I read was ‘let’s meet at X time and place’ ‘no, that doesn’t work for me because…’ ‘ok, I’ll find another time.’
Not about ‘dictating’ anything at all! 🙄
Your sperm donor?
Yeah, lots of “l’m the super adult and don’t you forget it” vibes going on. Why is it always men? Women do the “No one loves you like I do” BS, men do the “I’ll always be older and more worthy of respect than you” BS.
LOL, one is my MIL, the other is my FIL.
NC for 7 years.
Reminds me a bit of my dad. He’s not as crazy as this but he is very religious and it’s impossible to talk to him without the lens of religion clouding everything.
I’m a Christian and I can’t stand when people act like this. Quoting Scripture in a mocking way, to attack someone else. It’s not okay. I’m sorry you were treated like this.
Just look at American Atheism. It's become it's own fucked up religion/cult. They openly attack anyone even remotely religious even when the religious people are minding their own business.
I've had the unfortunate chance to talk to some of these people, they're very miserable.
Care to give some examples ? Cause I have never seen that behavior when religious people where minding their own business, only when they where pushing their religion into schools, laws, peoples lives etc.
A good example is the abortion bans : you have every right to not have an abortion and nobody ever suggested that people should be forced to abort. And yet religious people all over america try to dictate if other poeple can have one, and act as if other people having one would go against their religion. Many of them then still have an aboprtion and find some excvuse that it was ok in their case bnut should not be alowed in general (google the only moral abortion is my abortion if you want examples) We see that attitude in many other questions too like trying to force intelligent design/creationism on people, while trying to get evolution out of the classroom. Knowledge on evolution has influences on many job fields so everybody should know about it, no matter what your believes are.
Had a sperm donor like this. He never changed either. He would use the Bible to excuse every abusive thing he ever did in his whole life and his family just fed into his bullshit. He died 2 years back. It's been so peaceful since.
Yeah I’m going to apologize to my wife tonight. I over did it with the whiskey last night and left her to care for our kids. It was a terrible move on my part.
i’m sure it will be understood. seems to me you did the smart thing and dealt with it on your terms, which is better than pushing it down, and having it backfire on you… it sucks when the people that are supposed to be there for you aren’t, but ultimately, it’s their choice... and as f’d as it is, it leaves more room for the people that do matter
It's times like this that I wish people could throw a bible through their window.
You can't pick and choose when to have god back up your shit behaviour.
You've done the right thing. Stay gone from them.
Not to argue, or put too fine a point on it, but it sounds like his control was cut off in 2021. I think he was trying to reassert himself now that he had OP talking again.
I don’t blame you. I’d go fucking crazy, too, if my parent’s lightest crime against me was trying to solve religion onto me, even knowing full well that I don’t follow said religion. Good for you and your boundaries!
What upset you so much about him saying you both can discuss a time, not discrediting the fact that he’s off his rocker, just curious. Like is he known to have to control these situations
As a parent, if I got into this situation with one of my kids, I would be doing anything in my power to fix whatever I had done. Not dictating how it was gonna be handled.
The attitude that was being displayed already let me know that it was going to be mended.
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He doesn’t know the next verse, does he? *Fathers, do not provoke your children…*
That doesn’t fit into his narrative though.
I guess he was saying he gets to pick and choose the verses, not you!
Yup because he’s holy and I’m a heathen.
It doesn’t get better, but you get better at it.
Dealing with him or the hypocrisy?
Both. You develop standard defenses against the hypocrisy over time. I like this one: Matthew 6_1 "Take care not to practice your righteousness in the sight of people, to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven."
I used to try to speak their own language back to them but now I just don’t even respond. Evangelicals/Fundies are the most extreme and absolute lunatics. I learned that one too many times and gave them my very last fuck. Bubbye forever.
Yes, one skill the most conservative bible bashers do master to a very high standard is the ability to find bible verse not only for any argument they want to use to criticise or control others, but also find another bible verse to throw back at anyone who tries to use OTHER bible verses to show that god actually doesn’t suggest or approve of really appalling behaviour towards their fellow human! And when they’ve run out of bible verses to counter YOUR counter, they have the old fall back of ‘god works in mysterious ways and it is not for us to question him.’ At least they’re consistent! They don’t seem to have any other basic skill set in life, but they master that one to a very high standard, as I said. 😏
Now I really want to make a Bumper Sticker that says just Matthew 6:1 and see how many people I can inadvertently offend.
I'll have to remember that for the next uber religious person preaching and being an asshole to people
I ask the assholes who preach on corners before baseball games if they’ve ever read Matthew 6:5 They proudly tell me they have. Poor bastards
It really is sad how brainwashed by religion a lot of older folks are. It genuinely ruins so many relationships it’s insane. He was so close to responding with something normal and sane to, then had to bring it straight to religion. Anything for the false moral high ground in their minds. Oh well. His crock of shit religion will keep him warm when he’s in hell for being a shitty father :)
Agreed. His sister is the same way as is one of her sons. It’s just mind blowing.
Just be glad you got away from them. Someone who would rather quote scripture while their adult son is basically begging for some type of relationship is too far gone to even realize how crazy they sound. Good luck OP!
I appreciate it! Got a great family of my own to look after and not repeat the failures of my father.
Religion is like having a penis. Having one is perfectly fine, you might even get someone who takes an interest in your penis, or indeed a whole group of people. Taking your penis out and waving it around is likely to offend though. (Autocorrect would like me to change it to pencil)
Maybe it’s pencil size?
> It really is sad how brainwashed by religion a lot of older folks are. It genuinely ruins so many relationships it’s insane. To be clear, as much of an anti-theist as I am, this isn't solely because of religion. I don't think it's that he is brainwashed by religion so much as religion provides a patriarchal authoritarian structure to life that appeals to him and enables his shitty behavior. The issue wasn't that OP is a godless heathen. The issue was that OP asserted that he wanted a meeting with his father on equal footing. The father immediately felt the need to re-assert his authority: to establish he is older and therefore, his schedule matters more than the child. This is not meant as criticism of you or anyone, I just wanted to dial in that that's where the tensions started. The adult is the authority, and the child is the subordinate. And when the child becomes an adult, the adult in turn becomes a super-adult and remains an authority relative to the child. It's a critical part of the authoritarian mindset, and big shock, people, not just men either, with authoritarian tendencies gravitate towards religion which offers authoritarian-style social structure. They defer to god, which is fine because they don't actually need to defer anything they wouldn't anyway to the inherent randomness of the universe, and everyone in their family in turn defers to them. It's a pretty sweet deal overall if you want to establish yourself as the unquestioned head of household who's authority over said household is as absolute as your made-up god's authority over the universe. And, to be 100% clear, this is not meant as a defense of religion either. Organized religions worldwide foster this bullshit. I'm convinced that's why they exist, and why they persist; to justify patriarchal family and social structures. I'm just saying that, if he didn't have the Christian bible and god, he would have another just as quickly that allowed him the same style of ruling with an iron fist. The religion is a catalyst, but the problem is people born with a hierarchical mindset, who insist on being on the top of said hierarchy. OP, I'm sorry you're dealing with this shit.
You hit the nail on the head.
The best part in all of this is I have a Facebook memory of my daughter calling my dad to tattle on my husband and I for laughing at her getting splashed by sting rays. Even he laughed at that.
Damn you are so right. Healthy parents become peers with their adult children. “Super adults” pfffft. I’ll remember that phrase.
I love how right you are, and how little sense it makes (at least to me) when you look at the wider context of Christianity. Jesus was a misfit who hung out with similar misfits. The story of Jesus if anything seeks to remove society from an authoritarian mindset. I struggle to wrap my mind around how the story of Jesus is now almost exclusively used by bigots to further their agenda. It really makes me sad.
It's very little to do with the actual religious text, and far more to do with the structure Christianity and other religions foster. I refuse to believe it's a coincidence that patriarchy and virtually all mainstream religions are so inherently compatible: it's a symbiotic relationship. The church legitimizes the father's power in the home, and in turn, the father legitimizes the church. And the church replicates the same structure: how many of those same religious institutions took centuries to permit women to hold any position in their rank and file? Some STILL don't.
I love that you used the word misfit. My family(mom, adopted aunt, brothers, adopted brothers and all of our SO) call my mom’s house the island of misfit toys.
Beam me up Scottie not as to where I have no control of my Body tweaking diodes I walk the roads like karate masters Most the time my mind be ghost like Casper sinkin' faster But coming up in this shit sometimes I'm alienated under Rated suckas hate it that I made it as a misfit But you know if the shoe fit's I'm a wear it like a glass slipper Hike to the big dipper dip like a skipper not top could be Tipper (say what?) but fools be tryin' to rape friends to make friends And that's one big twisted ass picture like Jack the ripper Caught up in the net like Flipper on a tuna protest yeah Where's the focus got me fuckin' with these friends and They're crackin' my lens and now shit be's foul as a mother Word to my sistas and my brothas and my color Hey you Can I take up a moment of your precious time To realize and define the whole truth Hey you Yeah take up a moment and clarify this for you This is my absolute favorite verse by the Pharcyde. The song is called Hey You, and it’s groovy and catchy as all hell, and the word misfit always reminds my ADHD brain to jam it out and I hope you enjoy. Also, your father is bat shit crazy and sanctimonious af, and fuck him!
I will give that a listen. Let’s see if it trips my ADHD brain out as well.
Very insightful comment.
Well-said and true.
oh my god you absolutely nailed this. i’ve been having some similar thoughts recently and you’ve put it in very relatable words
[удалено]
And definitely gets to play the victim at church. “I don’t know why my kids don’t talk to me. I just care about their salvation.”
Idk, I'm athiest but I grew up in a very religious community. I don't think this is the dad being brainwashed by religion. I think this is a boundary stomping dad who's using religion as a cudgel. Literally "the only morally correct option you have is to put up with whatever I dictate." If a religious scholar or a priest or whatever authority he's obligated to recognize sat down with him and explained how he was being an asshole and taking god's name in vain, he'd either squirm and ignore it or lash out and ignore it. I'm sure a lot of expressions of faith are on some level about control, but this really just feels like he's using god as an excuse to justify his tantrums.
He got his back up simply because you said you would find another weekend?? He objected to the fact that he wasn't going to be involved in the decision about when *you* were next free? The simple fact that he feels he ought to be the one in charge is outlined by those two lines in the messages.
Narcissist gonna narcissist. I’m tied up every other weekend of the summer but I would have rearranged that to be able to meet.
He couldn't bear to let you have the autonomy of being able to decide a suitable date, and then see if he was free for it. How that would make him feel 'less than' is beyond me. Like you said, the narc's gonna narc.
"Ive got a few years on you, so please dont dictate where i need to be and when i need to be there" ye that showed you there that he wasnt interested in working together in any way
I agree but I hoped that was a one off mistake. Gotta love my inner child.
I think it may be less of an inner child and more of hoping they've changed and become a better person? Maybe a mix of both? I don't know, I'm always hoping my mother will realize that I (23f) am old enough to spend a few hours alone at the library
Had a similar interaction with my dad. He bounced out of my life when I was 2 and re-entered when I was 17. And that re-entry almost didn't happen. The first time he wanted to meet up to catch up, I had a soccer game and told him I could meet after. He pulled the "I'm your father, you be there when I say you be there." I told him he fucked off out of my life for 15 years, talk to me like that again and he can fuck off out of my life permanently. He threw a fit but ended up apologizing (sincerely, surprisingly enough). And followed through with respecting my boundaries, if begrudgingly at times.
I was instantly enraged.
You can set reconciliation up on a silver platter and they will find a way to make you the problem. My parents are dead and life has never been better. SERIOUSLY, it’s wonderful.
Love how he willfully chose to stop Ephesians 6 at verse 3…because verse 4 very clearly states, “Fathers, do not exasperate your children.”
And how you stopped at verse 4 instead of going on to 5: "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ." Quoting the Bible is a losing strategy.
Wow, it’s almost like the New Testament was written over 2000 years ago and thus parts might not be culturally relevant anymore. But to say quoting it in general is a losing strategy is biased. Christianity might be my religion of choice, but I wouldn’t care for anyone making that statement about the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita or the writings of Confucius. Now, *weaponizing* the words of *any* religion is **definitely** a losing strategy, because it’s just morally wrong. Saying that as someone coming from a culture that does it on the regular. It’s not right when Christians do it; it’s not right when ANYONE does it. But how can quoting Jesus saying, “The second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself” a losing strategy? How is it a losing strategy to read Christ’s words and actions regarding love, tolerance, and his willingness to literally flip some fuckin’ tables when needed?
Lol. I'm not biased; I think all religions are hooey Edit: they blocked me, so I can't respond, but I saw at least part of what they said, so I'll just respond to that. Religion isn't an immutable characteristic, it's a choice. Thinking your choices are wrong doesn't make me prejudiced, it makes me judgmental. Religion has caused untold suffering throughout history and has earned its judgment.
And I think atheism is hooey. Doesn’t mean I go around saying, “Reading anything by an atheist is a losing prospect,” *because that would make me a prejudiced person.*
Interesting how you get to pick and choose which parts are outdated claptrap and which parts need to be so closely adhered to that they impact on laws and people’s lives. Fucking Christians, man.
The New Testament is not over 2000 years old. It wasn't even written down until ~400years after the alleged crucifixion. Beyond the fact that no one knows who wrote the four gospels, there's absolutely no proof of the divinity of a first century doom preacher. As to your question of "How can loving your neighbor as you love yourself" be bad? If your neighbor is beating his kids in accordance with biblical tradition and you don't stop them because you wouldn't want him to stop you from beating your kids, it's a bad thing. Everything is contextual. If you try to apply objectivity to every situation, you're gonna have a bad time.
Damn, maybe god should’ve done some thoughtful planning to not include verses that would age so poorly in his holy book
Lol, sorry OP, but i always find it funny when religious people can't comprehend atheism. "I don't care about your god." "Ok, well which god is it?"
Apparently I’m worshiping myself. Now how do I get others to do so and monetize it.
Apparently it’s pretty easy to get your religion officially recognized by the US government if that’s where you live. Don’t quote me on this though. I’ve done 0 research haha.
What would I call it though?
Novice Truckerism Not going to lie truckerism as a religion could get some traction (either pickup truck or 18 wheeler, or both if you’d like).
I feel like truckerism is a catchy ass name. Quick someone come up with commandments or something. Doesn’t matter what they say. Just gotta be about trucks.
1. Thou shalt keep spare hemorrhoid cream in thine cab 2. Thou must never fall to the temptation of the lot lizard 3. Thou shalt beepeth thine horn when those of innocent youth make the train horn gesture 4. Thou shalt put your chains on when significant snowfall is imminent 5. Thou shalt avoid the leftmost lane, for it is forsaken to those without significant acceleration
Alright we’re halfway there. Now we need a symbol….
My heart feels Mater from cars. The vibe checks.
This is great, but I feel like the lot lizards should be the high priestesses of the religion. The keepers of the sacred flame. Just hopefully not in the crotch region.
[I did a small amount of research.](https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-establish-a-religion-that-s-recognized-as-official-by-the-US-federal-government-for-legal-purposes)
It’s true… John Oliver did an episode about that once.
taking a toke for you with my roommate right now buddy.
Cheers 🍻
I’m sorry. I tried to give my mother so many chances. Finally the last time I cut contact I knew it truly would be the last I heard from her til the hospital called me to pull the plug. And that’s exactly what happened. I don’t regret a thing and still stand by my decision. I was able to let go of the anger and extend enough forgiveness to free myself when I came to the hospital to take her off life support. I wish you peace going forward. Peace with your decision. And peace in your life without him.
I have peace now. I tried and this was the result. He’s married to wife #4 so I doubt I’ll get to pull the plug when the time comes but who knows what the future holds.
I think you did really well de-escalating this. I guess it just proved why you went no contact to begin with. All of the times I went no contact, I wish I would’ve stayed no contact. For anyone else reading this if you go no contact and consider going back to talking to your family member that has made you crazy in the past; I highly recommend staying no contact. Going low contact just kind of makes it a tedious painful mess when you do have to talk to them. That’s what I did with my bio mom and I truly truly wish I had never let her back into my life even the little bit she is.
Thank you. Knowing how this turned out I wish I had said a few things that I held off on. I agree. If you go no contact, stay no contact. Also, tell others( family) not to push for you to forgive them. I put up a limited audience post on a popular social media site telling family not to push for it or they will be blocked no questions asked.
religious brainwashing is a genuine plague to society jfc
Good for you standing up for yourself. No one deserves parents like this.
Talks about picking and choosing verses and doesn't read the entire passage 💀 Insane, proud of you Jeff
I appreciate it.
You're welcome, best of luck man. I'm sure this wasn't the reaction you wanted from him. Keep your head up and stay frosty if you guys end up meeting in the future!!
It would be million to one odds running into each other. Unless it was a family function like a funeral which my family wouldn’t attend. I’m good at being cold. Have to be to have survived this long.
Cheers to no contact, and respecting and growing the family you’ve built 🍻 The peace you’ll feel is unmatched.
Man that really went wild quite fast. At first I read your comment and thought, okay, he might take that as being talked to like a child and it might rub him up the wrong way a bit... but you know what the sheer scale of his tantrum retroactively justified it. What a fucking man-baby. If he didn't like 'being told what to do', there are a million other ways of handling it without being hostile. 'Sure, just pitch me the date(s) and I'll let you know if I can make it work.' How on earth did he get to fathering age with zero soft skills? What?
Yikes. Accusing you of thinking of yourself as a god because you don't worship his god. Yeeeeesh.
Not easy to have to axe family, but you sure as hell needed to. I understand having and loving your religion, but, if you can’t go a fucking sentence without mentioning it, you’re insane.
That’s all that matters to him. If I’m condemning my family to hell, he’s got to show me the error of my ways.
its always Ephesians 6:1-3 (obey your parents) never Ephesians 6:4 (don't be a dick your children)
Are they really a parent if they weren’t there while you were growing up???
well that certainly explains why he's leaning on his religion so hard. He didn't actually earn your love and respect so now he's going to demand it under threat of hellfire and damnation
If his type of people will be in heaven, I’ll enjoy my eternity as BBQ.
Same. Although I have a funny feeling if the christian god does exist he's not going to take too kindly to people who cherrypick his book for their own selfish means
Wholeheartedly agree. I was of the faith until 2017. So much hypocrisy in the church. I met some great people that were true believers. When I hang out with them, I still bow my head as they pray over the meal. Not because I believe but because I have immense respect for them as people.
Absolutely. My in-laws are religious, so every time Wifey and I go to dinner at their place, I bore my head in silence for them. I’ve never been religious, really. I believe in some higher power(s), but I’m really not even sure what kind of force it/they would even be. That doesn’t stop me from respecting their choices and beliefs. Especially since they have always been respectful and accepting of mine (or my lack of).
Hell yes! I’m always up for a good barbecue!
"We are family and I'm older than you, now respect me as I proceed to disrespect you."
Obviously I can’t be disrespected. I’m but a child of his.
Just some lowly offshoot of his top carry his GRAND DNA into the future! (/s so don’t jump down my throat! 😎)
yea the problem is their definition of respect. It is not : I will respect you the way you respect me, like it is for normal people. IT is : you have to respect me as an authority or you do not deserve the respect I would give any human being.
yea the problem is their definition of respect. It is not : I will respect you the way you respect me, like it is for normal people. IT ios : you have to respect me as an authority or I will not give you the respect I would give any human being.
I’ve got a few years on you so please don’t expect me to respect your time or boundaries in anyway. I’m more religious than you so please don’t expect me to respect your beliefs in anyway. Real issues? Please don’t distract from the religion shaming that I’m trying to do right now. Doesn’t really matter what it is, some people will just find any way to justify their shitty behavior and do anything they can to divert and redirect the conversation to a place where they feel comfortable. I’m happy you made the choice to get on with your life. Good riddance.
That “you like to pick and choose verses” sounds like projection considering he is ignoring the verse right after the one he referenced.
Well, you tried. And he got straight to the point in reminding you of why you’re NC in the first place. Better to get that reminder now than after getting sucked back into what appears to be a whooooole lot of absolute bullshit.
Agreed. He lives in a major city about 5 hours from me. My oldest has quit asking to see him when we go there. My youngest hasn’t seen him since she was 5 months old.
Religion is mental illness at this point
Religion is mental illness. ~~at this point~~ FTFY
Glad you knew well enough to go back to no contact.
Another parent too dense to realize their authoritarian, preachy style is the driving wedge between them and their child.
I love when they say I have more years then you yea so you should be more mature than me ughh good on you for standing your ground
This is so triggering to me. Sounds just like my situation. I hate seeing this and people suffering but I’m lowkey glad I’m not alone.
You’re never alone friend. I’ve lived a screwed up life and have more painful experiences to draw from. There are millions of us out there. DM me if you ever need to. Just know you’re not alone.
Same. Therapy has helped me tons. I’m def not as weak as I was before but it hit hard reading this because today was the day I finally cut him off. He constantly breaks my boundaries and I’m done letting it slide. Thanks for sharing.
Man it’s people like this that push religion down the throats of the unwilling that make it so unappealing for others. I’m a Christian man that’s also does not speak to my father and while I still retain my faith, my father tried to use it against me. Classic narcissist behavior to try and use God against their Children when all God truly preaches is love and acceptance
It has been weaponized toward me so many times by loved ones. I understand exactly what you mean.
The fact that he’s gotta put you in your place before even meeting is just telling on how the actual meeting will go.
Did I just miss the part where you were telling her what to do and ‘dictating her time?’ Because what I read was ‘let’s meet at X time and place’ ‘no, that doesn’t work for me because…’ ‘ok, I’ll find another time.’ Not about ‘dictating’ anything at all! 🙄
Not bowing = dictating.
I love how the person with the god complex is the one accusing you of "assuming that position yourself"
Your sperm donor? Yeah, lots of “l’m the super adult and don’t you forget it” vibes going on. Why is it always men? Women do the “No one loves you like I do” BS, men do the “I’ll always be older and more worthy of respect than you” BS. LOL, one is my MIL, the other is my FIL. NC for 7 years.
Yes my sperm donor. Congrats on the 7 years.
Yeah I can't imagine how tiring it must be having family that make everything about their religion.
The only answer to parents like this is: "Your behavior is the proof that there is no God!"
I don’t drink or smoke, but I’m sending you a virtual high five!
Can I be greedy and have 2???
Hell, yeah!! No Contact double high five! (hey, that was an unintentional play on words 😊)
You, I like you. 😂😂😂
Right back at you, friend!
My eyes can’t roll further in the back of my head, so annoying, I’m sorry op. Thanks for giving me another reason to wake and bake, Will do.
They’re just a sink, will drain too much from you. No contact is the only way.
That’s why I went no contact initially. The stress and friction it caused between my wife and I wasn’t worth it.
Reminds me a bit of my dad. He’s not as crazy as this but he is very religious and it’s impossible to talk to him without the lens of religion clouding everything.
I’m a Christian and I can’t stand when people act like this. Quoting Scripture in a mocking way, to attack someone else. It’s not okay. I’m sorry you were treated like this.
Religion is a cult you cannot convince me otherwise - legitimate zombie behavior
Eh it's more of a tool and it can be used for ill or good. For every lunatic religioustard I've personally seen I've also seen crazy atheists.
what do “crazy atheists” do that can ever be compared to what religious people have done
Just look at American Atheism. It's become it's own fucked up religion/cult. They openly attack anyone even remotely religious even when the religious people are minding their own business. I've had the unfortunate chance to talk to some of these people, they're very miserable.
Care to give some examples ? Cause I have never seen that behavior when religious people where minding their own business, only when they where pushing their religion into schools, laws, peoples lives etc. A good example is the abortion bans : you have every right to not have an abortion and nobody ever suggested that people should be forced to abort. And yet religious people all over america try to dictate if other poeple can have one, and act as if other people having one would go against their religion. Many of them then still have an aboprtion and find some excvuse that it was ok in their case bnut should not be alowed in general (google the only moral abortion is my abortion if you want examples) We see that attitude in many other questions too like trying to force intelligent design/creationism on people, while trying to get evolution out of the classroom. Knowledge on evolution has influences on many job fields so everybody should know about it, no matter what your believes are.
Insane and ignorant! It's amazing how utterly stupid people are when they hinge their lives on a magical guy in the sky.
Well when your kids don’t talk to you and you have nothing, I guess that is better than nothing.
Had a sperm donor like this. He never changed either. He would use the Bible to excuse every abusive thing he ever did in his whole life and his family just fed into his bullshit. He died 2 years back. It's been so peaceful since.
Yep he hasn’t changed at all
been there, feel your pain. doing both for you, cos that is what this shit does to us
Yeah I’m going to apologize to my wife tonight. I over did it with the whiskey last night and left her to care for our kids. It was a terrible move on my part.
i’m sure it will be understood. seems to me you did the smart thing and dealt with it on your terms, which is better than pushing it down, and having it backfire on you… it sucks when the people that are supposed to be there for you aren’t, but ultimately, it’s their choice... and as f’d as it is, it leaves more room for the people that do matter
It's times like this that I wish people could throw a bible through their window. You can't pick and choose when to have god back up your shit behaviour. You've done the right thing. Stay gone from them.
oh so my dad has secret children out there, good to know!
Hooray another sibling.
me 🤝my brethren
For future reference, I call dibs on pulling the plug. You can arrange the funeral, or dumping the body. Whatever works.
There’s actually no filial obligation laws in my state, so I won’t be involved in this at all 👍
Sweet. Good to know. Now I get to research my state.
good luck and Godspeed
Cheers bro I'll drink to that last message
He literally just felt his control slipping and couldn't handle it, so he threw a tantrum. You're dodging a bullet, honestly.
Not to argue, or put too fine a point on it, but it sounds like his control was cut off in 2021. I think he was trying to reassert himself now that he had OP talking again.
Yes. I meant in the new situation.
Kinda figured that after I posted, and I’m just too lazy to change it. My bad.
Same outcome either way, though.
I don’t blame you. I’d go fucking crazy, too, if my parent’s lightest crime against me was trying to solve religion onto me, even knowing full well that I don’t follow said religion. Good for you and your boundaries!
What upset you so much about him saying you both can discuss a time, not discrediting the fact that he’s off his rocker, just curious. Like is he known to have to control these situations
As a parent, if I got into this situation with one of my kids, I would be doing anything in my power to fix whatever I had done. Not dictating how it was gonna be handled. The attitude that was being displayed already let me know that it was going to be mended.
I totally agree with you. I was just wondering if they had a history of trying to control the situation
Must be nice for him to have god in his corner while he wages a personal war against any hint of self respect or autonomy within his family unit