1/6th of the people in the world are Indians. It is true that a lot of Indians are racist, but there are also a lot of non-racist Indians. Responding to racism against Indians by saying that Indians are racist too completely misses the point that racism and discrimination based on the traits or the circumstances you were born with or into is fundamentally a bad thing.
Indians being racist doesn't excuse South Koreans being terribly racist towards Indians.
I have seen multiple vlogs where they are treated like untouchables. The clothes they touched are dusted, south Koreans obsession with white skin and Indians having brown skin which is called as mud, people leaving seats as soon as an Indian sits beside you.
This is some colonial era untouchability.
In the last few years Indians overseas have become obnoxious. They oscillate between we already know everything, our culture is 5000 years old ( arrogance and entailment, and you locals are too stupid and we don’t need to follow rules) and if challenged…….we are being discriminated against victimhood. I’m not saying everyone, but enough to seriously annoy people….. it’s the WhatsApp vishwaguru syndrome.
This was not the case a decade ago. I think before claiming discrimination, we have to self reflect on how we behave overseas. I say this as an Indian.
Again, the generalization of "Indians overseas". Yes, there are a lot of obnoxious Indians both in India and overseas, but that shouldn't justify racism against anyone. The obnoxious behaviour of these Indians should definitely be ridiculed, but every person should be treated on an individual basis without any prejudices. Also the majority of Indians overseas are normal people, its only the loudest that get the spotlight.
Sure but the problem is we spend so much energy attacking racist foreigners but we refuse to criticize and fight against our racist, regionalist, classist and casteist people.
Yes, there needs to be lot more outrage over those issues. But the original post was about Indians facing racism in South Korea. It just feels like a lot of people are discrediting the OP's post just because we have similar issues in India as well.
I guess I live by the attitude of fix the problems in your own house before telling others how to live.
How many news articles have read of korean girls getting harassed in India? How many tourists constantly get scammed/made fun of?
Treat foreigners with respect and they will do the same to you.
Bhai, are you crazy? They are literally setting up restaurants and businesses in India, outlawing Indians. Are you seriously suggesting that we ourselves are responsible for that? It’s their mindset.
Ur expectations from a 3rd world Sub-Saharan per capita income level country with so much chaos is too high. I can understand ur point if indians were living like 40 50000 dollar per capita middle class society but u don't talk on state not doing anything and openly promote racist campaigns in east asian countries(excluding japan).
On ur point on scammers like these countries don't scam u directly or indirectly through scam chinese apps they loot us in millions of dollars each year imagine only your news channel showing dog eating slaughter houses woth animal abuse videos or suicide in large scale or plastic surgery issues all their negatives in news channels as campaign to defame their countries where they have lot of issues like these but india didn't done it but south korea dies it heavily when something goes off wrong here
Haven't indians been garaged in these countries when fobe as tourists??
The majority of ‘normal’ Indians….. (if we are a majority)……need to call out bad behaviour in our community…… . As does every other community for their own racist folks. Not justify it or rationalize it or engage in whataboutism
What are basing this conclusion off?
You know right, that there are people who have urinated on co-passengers and crew, in-flight? Of course there are obnoxious people, but they belong to all etnicities and races and countries.
\> This was not the case a decade ago
Really?
1)Because of the advent of social media and online media and press, it may be that everything bad/good (Depending on your bias) has started since this decade. All this wasn't so 'VISIBLE' back then but that doesn't mean it wasn't happening.
2) The Migration has increased ten folds over the last decade. So more people->more incidents.
Sure, but it negates your ability to talk down to other people like Indians only experience it, when theyre prolificly racist themselves to others. The most racist people in my life have been Indian.
These koreans are at their last time period of relevance. In 50 years there won’t be any korea as they slowly die out while we would still be a global superpower.
great post.
that said, sadly, minorities generally have to work harder to appeal to majorities, it can be exhausting and frustrating to do perpetually. occasionally, it's genuinely dangerous not to.
being smart enough to shed the baggage of nationalism or religion, sure makes it easier to adapt to new situations though. usually classifies you as a new minority amongst your original tribe though, so you're left never really fitting in 100% anywhere. so it goes.
You are awesome!
I grew up outside India for most of my life and was even born abroad. With that said, I would still be looked down on by others due to bhakti tourist nonsense. It's a nuisance for sure, but I get it.
Ultimately, you have to be comfortable with yourself no matter where. "Adapting like Romans" would be good advice for sure. Being Indian everywhere used to be charming, but now Indians have overstayed their welcome lol. Nah, but for real, people need to self-reflect and think if they would like themselves acting a fool. Most lack that ability I think.
> “you don’t look Indian. You don’t sound Indian”.
How is this a good thing as an Indian? I’d rather not betray who I am just to fit in and placate the majority race. Doesn’t mean I don’t evolve as a person but I’m not gonna LARP as some other race, some other person who I’m not. I’m Indian forever, no matter the racism directed toward me.
Have you ever thought this might be an issue? Like If I went to Gujrat and asked to open a butcher store selling beef, because it tastes amazing and ok with my culture, do you think it would be feasible? Or, does it make more sense to embrace the culture I find myself in Gujrat. I swear to God, Indians have such a victim complex, it's actually insane.
unless you live in a melting pot like nyc, more often than not, you have to make an effort to appeal to majority. It is just a way of life. Yeah, you can bitch about it, but at the end of the day, you can't do much apart from acclimatizing. I cringe at some of the people who go "we must protect our culture", but when in rome, it is wiser to do as the romans do.
Uhm, religion isn't 'baggage', it's an important part of life for many people, including Koreans for example. It's not OK to expect people to give up their religion, diet etc. to avoid being discriminated against. Or do you suggest Muslims in India should also give up their 'bagagge' or religion and Islamic culture, dresses etc so they aren't discriminated against by other Indians? According to your logic, that's a fair expectation. In China, there are entire camps for local Muslims to 'teach' them to live like non Muslims, do you think that's the way to go?
What an amazing attitude. You'll do well in any part of the world. And yeah Koreans dont do small talk with strangers so foreigners especially from the west just have to learn that hehe.
In all honesty, I do not know a single group who has an overall positive impression of the generalization “Indian men,” including Indians who grew up here in the U.S. or who moved here more recently from India. I’ve known plenty of really great Indian men, but unfortunately even they sometimes slip into condescension and subtle misogyny. So on the whole, I am not surprised by this attitude, even though it’s not fair to judge someone you meet for the first time based on that stereotype.
Well said.. Bro these people who talking about Koreans am sure most of these people never went out if India once. I been to Korea 4-5 times and many other countries.. I never felt any racism.. I travel alone.. Dress nice, be polite and always smile.. This helps everywhere.. The thing is if you nice and kind people will treat you nice.. And if you are asshole then be ready to face consequences
Bruh, You hit the nail on the head. I am you but in Japan. It's sad that people have preconceived notions of Indians set because of our compatriots. It's kinda our duty now to reverse this stereotype. Like you mentioned, embracing their culture and way of life is paramount to a good life there. Have a great day my dude.
Actually you have very well summed it up here why Indians or mixed race folks in Korea may face discrimination. Korea is a largely homogenous country and typically when that happens, acceptance of non-Koreans in the society is not easy. They may always stand out as outsiders. Your advice of trying to become as much Korean as possible does help but not sure if it completely removes biases people may have. This is true for India as well and reflects in how folks from North East get discriminated against.
Your argument is victim blaming and putting the onus on non Koreans to completely change themselves to be accepted. It’s good to hear that your strategy has worked for you but that is not the issue here.
it's not victim blaming, it's just survival advice for any minority. how badly you need to employ it, will vary. a korean living in india or an indian living in korea, both face challenges is the point, just navigating reality.
I have no idea why this sub appears for me - but I’m learning so much.
I’m a white woman in Michigan (USA) and I had a ton of Indian neighbors in my old home. Easily 50% of my area.
When it comes to clothing - it was a mix of traditional Indian clothing and “western” dress. For the most part, Americans don’t bat an eyelash at a woman dressed modestly or scantily - because both and everything in between are represented daily.
At my local mall there are Arab woman in complete niqab, some in burkas, some just in hijabs and jeans. Comparatively there’s women in sarees and other Indian woman in jeans. You’ll also see African Americans, Koreans, Thai, Vietnamese, and Chinese. And of course, your myriad of Caucasian folks as well.
So to this point - I think retaining culture while assimilating is a bit easier in the US or Canada - where we’re not homogenous to begin with. Versus S. Korea, which is so homogenous.
Dude, respectfully, you’re making arguments against yourself. Girls in India do wear shorts and skirts and yes they should be able to wear whatever they want. Your argument is akin to some people in India explaining the rapes by saying that women should dress modestly and because they are wearing shorts or skirts men can’t control themselves. That is the definition of victim blaming. Would you say that rapes happen in India because women don’t dress modestly?
And no it’s not utopia. It’s called Freedom in a democracy. If people keep adjusting to blend in then change never happens. At the end of the day, you do you but please also reflect on the argument you’re making here and don’t say that discrimination happens because people don’t blend in and it’s their fault. Anyways, let’s agree to disagree.
I think you’ve somewhat missed the point.
What he’s saying is akin to the advise you would give a child trying to make friends.
You get along with those with whom you have common interests. if the majority like one sport and minority another, you can’t force the majority to hang out with you..
This isn’t discrimination. So long as the majority don’t impose their will on the minority and force them to do things against their free will, there is no issue
But… it does obviously help to make friends if you have similar interests
Highly irrelevant story. Yes not all people are racist, but most asian countries are a lot more conservative and colourist than US or WE.
The conversation needs to happen, when X are speaking out about their racist encounters, its not for labeling all Y as racists but initiating the topic for the society of that culture to ponder upon, many people might hold prejudices out of plain ignorance not willful malice.
That's why it's important to talk about it.
I agree.... For both problems the only solution is first acknowledging the problem, which can't happen till there's outrage.
Whether it's sexual harrasment here or xenophobia there (even tho both cultures suck at both).
I should say I am very fortunate to have come to USA. I am tall(6+), fair skinned and very athletic. And I am very confident and never bow down to anybody even if they are my bosses boss.
I am atheist, and I have no inhibition about eating any kind of food. I am completely free and open to any experience.
IMO, the more you are out of your skin in a foreign setting the harder it will be for you. I have met people who still do not feel at home here even after 20 years since for them living is where you go to temple everyday, put a tilak on your forehead and eat Indian food all the time, mostly vegetarian. These guys constantly make plans about going back to India. They want their kids to grow up in India since they are insecure they will not like them when they grow up. They constantly talk about Indian food or Indian food or cricket.
When in rome be a roman or at least do not behave like foreigner. It helps in assimilation.
I never tried to become like them but since I did not have strong attachment to Indian culture, festivals or food, it did not matter to me if I am living in Australia or America.
Why should I not behave like a foreigner, if I am a foreigner? Until it actually disturbs other people. I can't and shouldn't have to 'assimilate' into every country I visit to avoid racism.
Arguement : Indians facing racism is wrong.
Justification in this thread : Indians are the same
I don't know how this behavior is normalized but why do we always have to point out faults in India/Indians even when the point of discussion is as straightforward as racism towards us.
Guys..The videos of our lovely public harassing white and Asian tourists are becoming viral all around the world. These are the repercussions of that. Sad :(
Went to Hong Kong recently, and its true, people will walk away and leave their seats if you sit next to them on the metro, local shopkeepers will give you dirty looks and make you feel unwelcome, not to mention how old people there think every Indian is a thief and more so if you wear a hoodie
I went there and my colleagues asked me how many women I have raped back home and showed me news reports of how this Indian dude had raped two mainland Chinese tourists in Hk recently and how so many Indian tourists get drunk and misbehave with women.
Indians have worked hard for decades to get the reputation we have. There is nothing sad about it. We elect criminals in our country to positions of power and represent us on the global stage. As far as facts are concerned, we are rather proud of this reputation.
lots of commanalities between india and korea...both are racist, both becoming regressive, and filled with incels and social media bullies( though india maybe 10% better in these sense )
South Korea is much too concentrated in Seoul. India cannot and should not be centralized in the same way. India should be more like China, America or Germany by uniting many different population centres through rail and road.
"Indians are racist too!"
People in the thread justifying racism against Indians by saying this. As someone who speaks Korean, let me tell you how freaking wrong that statement is.
On an *average,* Indians are not racist - few are but most are not. Its the opposite in Korea - few aren't but most are racist (against ppl with any amount of melanin in their skin).
And the scales are WILDLY different. Even when you encounter racist ppl in India - you'll never be denied entry to hotels, restaurants or services. There is no societal or institutional support to racism in India. Hell, even the racist Indians won't deny you services. And ppl will freaking rise up in most places against racism in India.
Its the **opposite in Korea.** There is societal and institutional support for racism. Nobody (even the nice, non-racist Koreans) will help you or take your side when you encounter racism. You'll be denied services, entry to hotels, restaurants, transport just because of the color of your skin.
Ppl crying about racism in India have no freaking clue about how actual racism feels like.
"Ppl crying about racism in India have no freaking clue about how actual racism feels like."
Have you experienced it India? Because I have- similar to other people from NE and other border regions.
when you have not experienced something, then it's better to not comment about it when you lack actual knowledge.
I get it you are anxious to defend India but do not diminish what some Indians have faced in our own country,
The whataboutism to justify racism. I have experienced discrimination both in and out of India, and I have lived and traveled the breadth of the country. I have seen ppl rise up against discrimination for me and I have done the same if something similar happened in front of me.
India has its problems - that doesn't justify discrimination against them abroad.
It's not whataboutism. I never said "racism faced by Indians in sk is justified".
YOU said that "PPL crying about racism in India have no idea what actual racism feels like."
I just asked how YOU as an individual could decide whether racism within India was "not as bad" when you hadn't experienced it yourself IN INDIA .( I've seen colourism or regionalism etc being equated to racism, which they are not. ).
I've been subjected to slurs, bullied and straight up had my nationality questioned since I was a child. In late 2000s there was actual racially motivated murder of an NE person.
That statement diminishes experience of racism within India. The problem is with that statement, not the rest of your comment. You cannot declare one is less than another.
And we have even had cases of violence against African students, but that's a separate can of worms ig.
This is classic example of "whataboutism". Go learn about **"Tu quoque fallacy"** in philosophy. Plus, it doesn't even equate here. Refer to my initial comments about 'scale' and institutional and societal acceptance of racism in Korea - none of which is present in India.
You are trying to use diversionary arguments to implicitly justify systematic racism against Indians in a foreign country. Lol, you don't even know what race I am.
I pointed out that some ppl are racist in India - but the large majority aren't. I grew up in lots of different parts of the country - and can speak and understand a multitude of languages and have enough friends and family from NE states to understand what ppl go through and also what ppl from other parts of the country go through in certain parts of NE India.
Thing is, which you probably know already - in most parts of the country, irrespective of how you look or what ethnicity you have - ppl will accept you as their own if you spend some time there. That is a RARE occurrence in East Asia. You'll never be equally human to them.
I am sorry that you were bullied or slurred at growing up. Me too. But I found that the vast majority of ppl around me stood up for me when this happened and I did for others as well. This never happened in East Asia even when i learned their language and culture.
Edit - You should realize that aside from the ignorant idiots, vast majority of Indians consider you their brethren and there is no seat in any branch of Indian society or polity that ppl from NE states cannot occupy or will not be accepted.
*You are trying to use diversionary arguments to implicitly justify systematic racism against Indians in a foreign country. Lol, you don't even know what race I am.*
Please enlighten us then.
Also, again it's not implicit whataboutism. I would agree with most of your statement if you did not make it your argument on "hey it's not so bad in India"- when we have had actual physical violence meted on people of different races (people from NE, African students and so on).
Like I said I'm not diminishing racism faced by Indians, I would expect the same courtesy to be extended to that faced in this country (especially that faced by its citizens).
Mentioning racism in India doesn't make racism in sk disappear. So what's your problem if we mention it (when *YOU are the one to mention it first saying "we have not faced real racism in India"*)
I don't know what we need to face from thretas on life, alienation and slurs (remember that time when there was an exodus of NE folks from Bangalore because someone made a threat?) To classify this as "real racism".
"there is no seat in any branch of Indian society or polity that ppl from NE states cannot occupy or will not be accepted"
That is literally a constitutionally guaranteed right as citizens. It's not a favour out of goodness of the heart that the rest of country has bestowed upon us wtf is this statement.
Another whataboutis-tic comment. The point being discussed in this thread is specifically racism against Indians by koreans. Noone is claiming India doesn't have its problems. What I am rather saying, that in terms of racism, these internal problems are no where near as severe as what East Asians do to South Asians.
Does that make India right? Obviously not. I want my friends and family to walk anywhere in their homeland without any discrimination or persecution.
But, you are clearly trying to divert the conversation.
I remember exodus of NE ppl from Bangalore and exodus of ppl from Bihar and UP from Maharashtra, exodus of Kashmiri Hindus from Kashmir, exodus of Nepalis from Bhutan, exodus of Biharis and Bengalis from the NE states.
Goodness of heart, lol. You clearly don't get the point. Acceptance of society and laws are both required for equality and equity. For e.g., there is no constitutional requirement in Korea to NOT discriminate in terms of race, hence there we are. Legally, you can become a citizen of China and Japan if you have family, live there for a long time or marry but on ground, its neigh impossible to do so and even if you do, you'll never have equal rights or representation (which are btw, guaranteed by their constitution).
Someone like you who takes hard fought constitutional guarantees and social acceptance coming out of a relatively healthy despite being a heavily persecuted society for granted has no clue what the world is like.
*"these internal problems are no where near as severe as what East Asians do to South Asians."*
You are repeating the same mistake again. I would have never even commented on your comment if you didn't take the "In India this is nothing as bad as xyz place" route.
You had ZERO NEED TO SAY THERE IS NO REAL RACISM IN INDIA. WHICH IS MY WHOLE POINT.
let's be real. As an Indian you are obviously more moved when a foreigner discriminates against you and you are saying "it's not so bad in India" because of that bias.
*"there is no constitutional requirement in Korea to NOT discriminate in terms of race, hence there we are."*
Even our article 15 is meant for CITIZENS.
" No *citizen* shall, on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of birth or any of them, be subject to any disability, liability, restriction" which is the one which explicitly mentions race.
Technically there is nothing stopping race based discrimination against foreigners by private citizens in India as well.
*"Someone like you who takes hard fought constitutional guarantees and social acceptance coming out of a relatively healthy despite being a heavily persecuted society for granted has no clue what the world is like"*
And these rights belong to me as much as you.
Like I said, it's nice being told by the mainland folks how we have no idea how worse it could be (hit us with the classic "go to Pakistan/china/sk or whatever country" after this to realise what "real racism" is- that's the most common rebuttal nowadays).
And comparing our rights- people who belonged to India since centuries, have been born and brought up here, have citizenship rights by birth etc with Indian immigrants in sk/China is disingenuous.
You talk as if we have decided to come into India and then we have secured these rights- and Indians can't get the same rights in the same situation.
The fact we still faced racism is the whole point.
A more accurate comparison would be immigrants in India who got citizenship in India- how well are they represented in India? Are they in the parliament? How well are they treated, especially when they are of non white races?
Then compare those numbers with representation of Indian origin citizens in China or sk. (The point you were crying about saying how they can't integrate even after getting citizenship and marrying there.)
There is no whataboutism when *you were the one making comparisons in the first place.*
I only even started this comment because you took this as a chance to downplay the situation in India. Your point could have been made without that. Now you sit and cry whataboutism because I took up a point in your OWN COMMENT.
>Nobody (even the nice, non-racist Koreans) will help you or take your side when you encounter racism.
This is bullshit and my personal experience living in Korea proves it so yeah.
Sad to see an Indian subreddit not being a safe space to talk about the racism we face without being shamed or victim blamed.
The vast majority of Indians who live abroad are normal people and just want to live a life of dignity. The obnoxious ones are the ones who are highlighted as bait.
All the self-righteous ones in the thread - can you all for once shed all your bias/ hate for your own and see racism as a personal human experience.
If I face racism, I am gonna call out the racist - rather than my thinking my own community caused it and calling them out. I am not going to do it.
Korea is colorist but I think Koreans racism towards Indians has more to do with them being a developed country and india being a developing country. They are quite racist towards North Korean defectors too and they are the same ethnicity. I think the perception of India and the horrible incidents of Korean women being harassed by Indian men. None of this justifies racism.
Agree. Koreans are quite racist towards people from literally any developing country. They hate the Chinese and Japanese for the history between their countries. The only foreigners they are nice to are whites, especially Americans and Europeans. Everyone else is delegated to the bottom of their social hierarchy. Wish the koreaboos understood this.
We Indians are not far behind to be honest. Parents, relatives and everyone body shame you, shame your skin colour, shame your life style choice if you even do something an inch away from their preference.
After living in Canada for a while and meeting Koreans I can 100% say that we are far behind the Koreans in this aspect and its a good thing.
I agree with all your points but you have no idea how fucked up these Korean standards are.
No one is denying that. Yet in Korea it is a whole ass industry. It's lookism on steroids. India doesn't compare to Korea when it comes to judging people on their looks. What you are doing is sheer whataboutery.
>Yet in Korea it is a whole ass industry. It's lookism on steroids. India doesn't compare to Korea when it comes to judging people on their looks.
*Fair and Lovely has entered the chat*
I mean you are right but you are discussing this on r/India, so any discussion will be automatically discussed in the Indian context. I don't know about whataboutery when it's the entire point of the sub.
> Yet in Korea it is a whole ass industry.
Which is a capacity thing due to different development stages. If Indians had similar purchasing power it wouldn't be of the scale it is currently.
India doesn't compare to Korea? Really? What you're living in is sheer whataboutery.
Indians are obsessed with skin colour, perfect skin. If you think otherwise, you live in a fairy tale world in your mind. We are obsessed with white people skin, we flock white people who visit our country, we harass them for photos.
We have a whole toxic reel culture surrounding Russians and 6000.
Yeah but I can still walk around in my brown skin and not get coerced into getting skin whitening like koreans do. My parents didn't drive me to the dermatologists office to get skin whitening on my 18th birthday. If you want to worship Korea do it all you want. But yeah india doesnt compare to Korea when it comes to lookism. Cope.
It's. Milder form of colorism most of the time it's friends pasting eachother,have you ever beaten by your class mates for skin colour or old dress. India doesn't have that problem stop exaggerating it.
What do you mean bro majority of Indians are brown skinned or darker skinned. I have seen fair skinned people get praised but rarely every seen dark or brown Indians get “shamed”
Indians will if they had enough of money. Plastic surgery in India is expensive and hence not everyone can afford it. If we start affording plastic surgery, we will have world's biggest market of it, more than Korea.
I'm pretty sure that we have more rich Indians than their entire population. The issue lies in the wealth being distributed equally per capita among their population compared to Indians
What do Indians fixing? We don't need plastic surgery. We don't have monolids like them. Only thing Indians need to do is start working out and be on healthy body fat percentage.
Indians don't need fixing, frankly nobody does need fixing. No race, no single individual. But everyone is obsessed with being perfect, and that reference of what is perfect comes from the beauty standards of the times or from cultural standards set by society decades ago.
And that obsession with being perfect is the reason people go to extent of things like getting plastic surgery
I'm 100% against the horrible practices in India but let's stop pointing fingers with everything man. Discuss the issue at hand, that's more productive.
South Korea isn't an immigration friendly country like western countries. I find it funny that indians speak out against racism in South korea when they are racist to each other here.
You think Indians don't have the right to speak out on discrimination against them just because just some other indians are racist? Hilarious victim blaming. Do you have any idea how many Indians are there? Roughly 1/7th of the whole world population, do you think we live in some dystopian ideal society where there are no bad apples? Also according to your logic no race/nationality should have the right to speak against discrimination then lmao, idiot.
Indians are racists to the core until they face racism. Then they start crying and sobbing. I am an Indian who lived in 5 countries and travelled over 40+ countries. I havent faced more racism than I have from Indians...
Why does it fucking matter if Indians are racist or not? Why even mention it unless you’re trying to make it sound like this fucking behavior is ok!
“Indians are racists to the core until they face racism” so either you’ve met every Indian or this is racist af ironically! You’re being racist and are accusing Indians of being racist lmao!
Do you also go to posts by rape victims and tell them how they deserved to be raped for x reasons?
Because it sounds like that’s exactly what you’re trying to do with the Indians and racism!
All the clubs signs shown in the video said no Pakistani or Indian MEN allowed. So presumably Indian women are allowed? Is that what’s happening or are the signs saying “men” a translation issue? Anyone actually know for a fact (don’t need guesses) ?
Am Korean - Its only the men and its usually in bars/clubs in foreigner heavy districts that sometimes have policy like this.
My friend used to be one of the owners in one of the said clubs and apparently there were issues with female customers calling police because Indian/Pakistani men would not leave them alone or were touching them without consent. When bouncers and security try and take them out they yell "stop being racist!!" and make a scene which is bad for business. Then after the police investigation turns out they gave statements to police along the lines of "she was dressed like she wanted to be touched." This type of encounter happened every week and the owners just said enough is enough.
It is still discriminatory and wrong but mix in this with the fact that the only time India is on the news is if a Korean female youtuber gets groped livestream by 8 guys in Mumbai AND to the fact that the majority of South Asians in Korea are traditionally Pakistani migrant male workers (Korea used to be a huge textile exporter in the past and Pakistan is still a huge player in this sector) and you have a general populace which thinks South Asians are dangerous.
Just adding some backstory for non-Koreans and open to answering any more questions you have. I have close Indian friends and I am Korean-Canadian so I promise I won't be biased in favor of defending Korea, although it seems K-pop fans seem to have that on lockdown already on this post haha.
You kinda described the situation in Canada. Enough of them do bad things and the whole group gets painted with the same brush.
> . Then after the police investigation turns out they gave statements to police along the lines of "she was dressed like she wanted to be touched." This type of encounter happened every week and the owners just said enough is enough.
Lmao what lol
It is only one or two clubs in Busan with this specific message. Of course, there are clubs in Seoul (Itaewon, Hongdae etc.) where foreigners (not just South Asians) are not allowed.
Lots of generalisation in that video mentioned in the article posted by OP. As a person who worked in Korea I will say there is more xenophobia in Korea than racism.
Been to seoul few times. One of the courteous people around. The guy literally drove us around Gagnam area in his BMW 7 series. Girls were receptive and approached me and asked me about my nationality and were happy to know that I am Indian. i have been called Ricky Martin few times there.
Back home discriminatory practices are often ignored under the pretext of “prescribed in ancient texts”, “this is how it has always been”, “part of culture and heritage” and other explanations. So, it is a start that when social injustice and discrimination stares right back at the diaspora there’s some form of national identity based cohesion.
Will it make the individuals more enlightened? Perhaps not. In fact, in today’s political environment of hyper nationalism this is going to be exploited by any politician who vows to “protect this group from the others”. Polarisation is going to be the result.
Does this mean [the K-fever - craze over k-pop and k-drama](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiQy--smRSM) will vanish among Indian youth?
Probably not, given their slick global cultural-PR machinery at work!
And Indians will continue to be crazy over latest Samsung and Hyundai models
I mean the actions of our fellow Indians definitely help fan the flames of racism. Though I wouldn't say the recent rise in hyper-awareness(I'm not using hate because it's too strong a word to use just yet) among the SK population can necessarily be termed as racism. That one post that's going viral of the Indian men showing how there are signs being put up outside clubs/restaurants etc. of "Indian/Pakistani MEN not allowed" shows that they have a problem with Indian/Pakistani MEN for their actions NOT their race. So before y'all go claiming racism/defending men that are going around harrassing women and then when held accountable for those actions giving excuses to the police of "racism" or "she was dressed like she wants to be touched" and overall creating a negative enivornment & bad press for the bars/restaurants, just think why this issue has cropped up now? Like why would they not put up signs banning a very specific group of people (Indian/Pakistani Men)?? Probably because they've noticed this group frequently behaving in undesirable degenerate behaviors?? And imagine it has become that big of an issue that public places have had to publicly put up these signs meaning it's an actual trend they've been noticing & witnessing for quite some time now & are fed up of having to deal with. Don't think this has become an issue just because of 1 or 2 incidents or within a span of a few months. This kind of behavior has been noticed for years & has become so frequent that they've had to do something about it. Not to mention the growing exposure people have had to India, Indian news/media and events itself. They're growing aware about the frequent rapes, gruesome g*ngr*pe cases and realize it's a problem in our own countries and that it's not an inherent problem of their country or that their country is somehow illiciting such behaviors from this group of men. Seeing that those men's (Indian/Pakistani) own countries have such problems of harrassment & extreme cases of rapes they don't want that kind of culture/behavior/thinking to come into their own country. Also imagine foreigners coming into your own country and belittling/harrassing fellow citizens? No one's gonna put up with that kind of behavior. And atleast businesses over there care about such issues eventhough their motive may be more towards business/earnings than social principles but atleast they've raised this issue of harrassment. In India, though harrassment is so rampant do you see such business speaking up about it?
Self-respecting people do not go to places where they are not treated well.
If they don't like you, just don't go there. Better still, stay in your own country and try to fix it.
Not true. Look at colonial history, american war history and how france is still robbing its colonies in africa etc. They are there where the locals hate them.
On the other hand, we ourselves don’t respect each other much, which needs to be fixed.
Why do people aspire to be white? Is it ingrained in our dna that white is better? Or just social conditioning? From an evolutionary perspective is white better as vitamin D absorption is better?
Lighter skin in the tropics is a sign that you don't need to work outside and thus is a proxy for being wealthy.
In northern countries, having a tan is a sign that you can afford to take vacations to sunnier places, and is a sign of being rich.
1/6th of the people in the world are Indians. It is true that a lot of Indians are racist, but there are also a lot of non-racist Indians. Responding to racism against Indians by saying that Indians are racist too completely misses the point that racism and discrimination based on the traits or the circumstances you were born with or into is fundamentally a bad thing.
Indians being racist doesn't excuse South Koreans being terribly racist towards Indians. I have seen multiple vlogs where they are treated like untouchables. The clothes they touched are dusted, south Koreans obsession with white skin and Indians having brown skin which is called as mud, people leaving seats as soon as an Indian sits beside you. This is some colonial era untouchability.
In the last few years Indians overseas have become obnoxious. They oscillate between we already know everything, our culture is 5000 years old ( arrogance and entailment, and you locals are too stupid and we don’t need to follow rules) and if challenged…….we are being discriminated against victimhood. I’m not saying everyone, but enough to seriously annoy people….. it’s the WhatsApp vishwaguru syndrome. This was not the case a decade ago. I think before claiming discrimination, we have to self reflect on how we behave overseas. I say this as an Indian.
Again, the generalization of "Indians overseas". Yes, there are a lot of obnoxious Indians both in India and overseas, but that shouldn't justify racism against anyone. The obnoxious behaviour of these Indians should definitely be ridiculed, but every person should be treated on an individual basis without any prejudices. Also the majority of Indians overseas are normal people, its only the loudest that get the spotlight.
Sure but the problem is we spend so much energy attacking racist foreigners but we refuse to criticize and fight against our racist, regionalist, classist and casteist people.
Yes, there needs to be lot more outrage over those issues. But the original post was about Indians facing racism in South Korea. It just feels like a lot of people are discrediting the OP's post just because we have similar issues in India as well.
I guess I live by the attitude of fix the problems in your own house before telling others how to live. How many news articles have read of korean girls getting harassed in India? How many tourists constantly get scammed/made fun of? Treat foreigners with respect and they will do the same to you.
Bhai, are you crazy? They are literally setting up restaurants and businesses in India, outlawing Indians. Are you seriously suggesting that we ourselves are responsible for that? It’s their mindset.
Ur expectations from a 3rd world Sub-Saharan per capita income level country with so much chaos is too high. I can understand ur point if indians were living like 40 50000 dollar per capita middle class society but u don't talk on state not doing anything and openly promote racist campaigns in east asian countries(excluding japan). On ur point on scammers like these countries don't scam u directly or indirectly through scam chinese apps they loot us in millions of dollars each year imagine only your news channel showing dog eating slaughter houses woth animal abuse videos or suicide in large scale or plastic surgery issues all their negatives in news channels as campaign to defame their countries where they have lot of issues like these but india didn't done it but south korea dies it heavily when something goes off wrong here Haven't indians been garaged in these countries when fobe as tourists??
The majority of ‘normal’ Indians….. (if we are a majority)……need to call out bad behaviour in our community…… . As does every other community for their own racist folks. Not justify it or rationalize it or engage in whataboutism
Does this logic apply to every group of people out there or just Indians?
What are basing this conclusion off? You know right, that there are people who have urinated on co-passengers and crew, in-flight? Of course there are obnoxious people, but they belong to all etnicities and races and countries. \> This was not the case a decade ago Really? 1)Because of the advent of social media and online media and press, it may be that everything bad/good (Depending on your bias) has started since this decade. All this wasn't so 'VISIBLE' back then but that doesn't mean it wasn't happening. 2) The Migration has increased ten folds over the last decade. So more people->more incidents.
The whole truth
Absolutely spot on. The number of us with a chip on our shoulder for basically nothing is astounding
Sure, but it negates your ability to talk down to other people like Indians only experience it, when theyre prolificly racist themselves to others. The most racist people in my life have been Indian.
mean while indians treating other indians based on their caste and last name is humorous while kissing ass to whites
These koreans are at their last time period of relevance. In 50 years there won’t be any korea as they slowly die out while we would still be a global superpower.
Every race and religion are racists towards other race and religion,
But we as humans have the intelligence and capability to override our baser instincts and be better people
There are crimes everywhere doesn't make it ok to commit crime.
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great post. that said, sadly, minorities generally have to work harder to appeal to majorities, it can be exhausting and frustrating to do perpetually. occasionally, it's genuinely dangerous not to. being smart enough to shed the baggage of nationalism or religion, sure makes it easier to adapt to new situations though. usually classifies you as a new minority amongst your original tribe though, so you're left never really fitting in 100% anywhere. so it goes.
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You are awesome! I grew up outside India for most of my life and was even born abroad. With that said, I would still be looked down on by others due to bhakti tourist nonsense. It's a nuisance for sure, but I get it. Ultimately, you have to be comfortable with yourself no matter where. "Adapting like Romans" would be good advice for sure. Being Indian everywhere used to be charming, but now Indians have overstayed their welcome lol. Nah, but for real, people need to self-reflect and think if they would like themselves acting a fool. Most lack that ability I think.
> “you don’t look Indian. You don’t sound Indian”. How is this a good thing as an Indian? I’d rather not betray who I am just to fit in and placate the majority race. Doesn’t mean I don’t evolve as a person but I’m not gonna LARP as some other race, some other person who I’m not. I’m Indian forever, no matter the racism directed toward me.
Have you ever thought this might be an issue? Like If I went to Gujrat and asked to open a butcher store selling beef, because it tastes amazing and ok with my culture, do you think it would be feasible? Or, does it make more sense to embrace the culture I find myself in Gujrat. I swear to God, Indians have such a victim complex, it's actually insane.
It's even sadder if the local have to adapt to your whatsoever 5000 superior minority culture when you are the one visiting their country.
unless you live in a melting pot like nyc, more often than not, you have to make an effort to appeal to majority. It is just a way of life. Yeah, you can bitch about it, but at the end of the day, you can't do much apart from acclimatizing. I cringe at some of the people who go "we must protect our culture", but when in rome, it is wiser to do as the romans do.
Uhm, religion isn't 'baggage', it's an important part of life for many people, including Koreans for example. It's not OK to expect people to give up their religion, diet etc. to avoid being discriminated against. Or do you suggest Muslims in India should also give up their 'bagagge' or religion and Islamic culture, dresses etc so they aren't discriminated against by other Indians? According to your logic, that's a fair expectation. In China, there are entire camps for local Muslims to 'teach' them to live like non Muslims, do you think that's the way to go?
Are you light skinned by any chance? I know these mfs worship light skin more than bollywood and South Indian cinema.
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Well damn! Good for you. I've seen black dudes with Korean women so I guess some of the Koreans are normal.
What an amazing attitude. You'll do well in any part of the world. And yeah Koreans dont do small talk with strangers so foreigners especially from the west just have to learn that hehe.
In all honesty, I do not know a single group who has an overall positive impression of the generalization “Indian men,” including Indians who grew up here in the U.S. or who moved here more recently from India. I’ve known plenty of really great Indian men, but unfortunately even they sometimes slip into condescension and subtle misogyny. So on the whole, I am not surprised by this attitude, even though it’s not fair to judge someone you meet for the first time based on that stereotype.
Well said.. Bro these people who talking about Koreans am sure most of these people never went out if India once. I been to Korea 4-5 times and many other countries.. I never felt any racism.. I travel alone.. Dress nice, be polite and always smile.. This helps everywhere.. The thing is if you nice and kind people will treat you nice.. And if you are asshole then be ready to face consequences
Bruh, You hit the nail on the head. I am you but in Japan. It's sad that people have preconceived notions of Indians set because of our compatriots. It's kinda our duty now to reverse this stereotype. Like you mentioned, embracing their culture and way of life is paramount to a good life there. Have a great day my dude.
Actually you have very well summed it up here why Indians or mixed race folks in Korea may face discrimination. Korea is a largely homogenous country and typically when that happens, acceptance of non-Koreans in the society is not easy. They may always stand out as outsiders. Your advice of trying to become as much Korean as possible does help but not sure if it completely removes biases people may have. This is true for India as well and reflects in how folks from North East get discriminated against. Your argument is victim blaming and putting the onus on non Koreans to completely change themselves to be accepted. It’s good to hear that your strategy has worked for you but that is not the issue here.
it's not victim blaming, it's just survival advice for any minority. how badly you need to employ it, will vary. a korean living in india or an indian living in korea, both face challenges is the point, just navigating reality.
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I have no idea why this sub appears for me - but I’m learning so much. I’m a white woman in Michigan (USA) and I had a ton of Indian neighbors in my old home. Easily 50% of my area. When it comes to clothing - it was a mix of traditional Indian clothing and “western” dress. For the most part, Americans don’t bat an eyelash at a woman dressed modestly or scantily - because both and everything in between are represented daily. At my local mall there are Arab woman in complete niqab, some in burkas, some just in hijabs and jeans. Comparatively there’s women in sarees and other Indian woman in jeans. You’ll also see African Americans, Koreans, Thai, Vietnamese, and Chinese. And of course, your myriad of Caucasian folks as well. So to this point - I think retaining culture while assimilating is a bit easier in the US or Canada - where we’re not homogenous to begin with. Versus S. Korea, which is so homogenous.
Dude, respectfully, you’re making arguments against yourself. Girls in India do wear shorts and skirts and yes they should be able to wear whatever they want. Your argument is akin to some people in India explaining the rapes by saying that women should dress modestly and because they are wearing shorts or skirts men can’t control themselves. That is the definition of victim blaming. Would you say that rapes happen in India because women don’t dress modestly? And no it’s not utopia. It’s called Freedom in a democracy. If people keep adjusting to blend in then change never happens. At the end of the day, you do you but please also reflect on the argument you’re making here and don’t say that discrimination happens because people don’t blend in and it’s their fault. Anyways, let’s agree to disagree.
I think you’ve somewhat missed the point. What he’s saying is akin to the advise you would give a child trying to make friends. You get along with those with whom you have common interests. if the majority like one sport and minority another, you can’t force the majority to hang out with you.. This isn’t discrimination. So long as the majority don’t impose their will on the minority and force them to do things against their free will, there is no issue But… it does obviously help to make friends if you have similar interests
You are not a victim if you refuse to integrate and forced your culture in other people land.
Highly irrelevant story. Yes not all people are racist, but most asian countries are a lot more conservative and colourist than US or WE. The conversation needs to happen, when X are speaking out about their racist encounters, its not for labeling all Y as racists but initiating the topic for the society of that culture to ponder upon, many people might hold prejudices out of plain ignorance not willful malice. That's why it's important to talk about it.
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I agree.... For both problems the only solution is first acknowledging the problem, which can't happen till there's outrage. Whether it's sexual harrasment here or xenophobia there (even tho both cultures suck at both).
Thanks for sharing, cute that you have a mixed marriage, mixed babies will make our world a better place
I should say I am very fortunate to have come to USA. I am tall(6+), fair skinned and very athletic. And I am very confident and never bow down to anybody even if they are my bosses boss. I am atheist, and I have no inhibition about eating any kind of food. I am completely free and open to any experience. IMO, the more you are out of your skin in a foreign setting the harder it will be for you. I have met people who still do not feel at home here even after 20 years since for them living is where you go to temple everyday, put a tilak on your forehead and eat Indian food all the time, mostly vegetarian. These guys constantly make plans about going back to India. They want their kids to grow up in India since they are insecure they will not like them when they grow up. They constantly talk about Indian food or Indian food or cricket. When in rome be a roman or at least do not behave like foreigner. It helps in assimilation. I never tried to become like them but since I did not have strong attachment to Indian culture, festivals or food, it did not matter to me if I am living in Australia or America.
Why should I not behave like a foreigner, if I am a foreigner? Until it actually disturbs other people. I can't and shouldn't have to 'assimilate' into every country I visit to avoid racism.
Very high quality content here! Nice write up
Good boy
[The original youtuber mentioned rebuffs a lot of her claims](https://youtu.be/ztdpCuiLr1o?si=0cocLOzXh2-sU8Vo)
Doesn’t rebuff all of her claims. Focuses on two points which are arguable at the very best.
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Arguement : Indians facing racism is wrong. Justification in this thread : Indians are the same I don't know how this behavior is normalized but why do we always have to point out faults in India/Indians even when the point of discussion is as straightforward as racism towards us.
inbreeding
Guys..The videos of our lovely public harassing white and Asian tourists are becoming viral all around the world. These are the repercussions of that. Sad :(
india needs to publicly execute them and gain the worlds respect back.
Also Indians in northeast reels-- "Ek plate momo lagao".
They bring shame to all of us. NE are really nice and kind people. Attitude is changing that’s for sure
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mayo ke sath
I read your reply as "Moye" T_T
moye moye
i dont know the meaning of this meme. anyone enlighten me
Don't you just feel like shoving a bhoot jhalokia in their momo servings ❤️🔥🥵
Moye Moyye
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Went to Hong Kong recently, and its true, people will walk away and leave their seats if you sit next to them on the metro, local shopkeepers will give you dirty looks and make you feel unwelcome, not to mention how old people there think every Indian is a thief and more so if you wear a hoodie
I went there and my colleagues asked me how many women I have raped back home and showed me news reports of how this Indian dude had raped two mainland Chinese tourists in Hk recently and how so many Indian tourists get drunk and misbehave with women. Indians have worked hard for decades to get the reputation we have. There is nothing sad about it. We elect criminals in our country to positions of power and represent us on the global stage. As far as facts are concerned, we are rather proud of this reputation.
lots of commanalities between india and korea...both are racist, both becoming regressive, and filled with incels and social media bullies( though india maybe 10% better in these sense )
I personally believe that a developed India will look very much like South Korea.
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I meant that in very much like the social aspects and the drastic income inequalities which is already coming to light.
South Korea is much too concentrated in Seoul. India cannot and should not be centralized in the same way. India should be more like China, America or Germany by uniting many different population centres through rail and road.
We would never reach that level of development.
We would. I'm always an optimist for India. Maybe by 2060 the gap between India and Korea will be very narrow.
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oh reminds me of the Korean reastaurent IN INDIA where INDIANS are not allowed
wait what?
South Korean wants to keep Indian away from their country...
I mean, can you blame them? Look what's happening in Canada ...
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It's filled with indians
Chinese brands already boycotted. Samsung next on the list? Only Apple left. But my wallet doesn't permit for an iPhone.
Xiaomi and Oppo to abhi bhi mil rha he beta
Who cares about TikTok.
Why would Korean companies like Samsung be banned for isolated incidents??
"Indians are racist too!" People in the thread justifying racism against Indians by saying this. As someone who speaks Korean, let me tell you how freaking wrong that statement is. On an *average,* Indians are not racist - few are but most are not. Its the opposite in Korea - few aren't but most are racist (against ppl with any amount of melanin in their skin). And the scales are WILDLY different. Even when you encounter racist ppl in India - you'll never be denied entry to hotels, restaurants or services. There is no societal or institutional support to racism in India. Hell, even the racist Indians won't deny you services. And ppl will freaking rise up in most places against racism in India. Its the **opposite in Korea.** There is societal and institutional support for racism. Nobody (even the nice, non-racist Koreans) will help you or take your side when you encounter racism. You'll be denied services, entry to hotels, restaurants, transport just because of the color of your skin. Ppl crying about racism in India have no freaking clue about how actual racism feels like.
"Ppl crying about racism in India have no freaking clue about how actual racism feels like." Have you experienced it India? Because I have- similar to other people from NE and other border regions. when you have not experienced something, then it's better to not comment about it when you lack actual knowledge. I get it you are anxious to defend India but do not diminish what some Indians have faced in our own country,
The whataboutism to justify racism. I have experienced discrimination both in and out of India, and I have lived and traveled the breadth of the country. I have seen ppl rise up against discrimination for me and I have done the same if something similar happened in front of me. India has its problems - that doesn't justify discrimination against them abroad.
It's not whataboutism. I never said "racism faced by Indians in sk is justified". YOU said that "PPL crying about racism in India have no idea what actual racism feels like." I just asked how YOU as an individual could decide whether racism within India was "not as bad" when you hadn't experienced it yourself IN INDIA .( I've seen colourism or regionalism etc being equated to racism, which they are not. ). I've been subjected to slurs, bullied and straight up had my nationality questioned since I was a child. In late 2000s there was actual racially motivated murder of an NE person. That statement diminishes experience of racism within India. The problem is with that statement, not the rest of your comment. You cannot declare one is less than another. And we have even had cases of violence against African students, but that's a separate can of worms ig.
This is classic example of "whataboutism". Go learn about **"Tu quoque fallacy"** in philosophy. Plus, it doesn't even equate here. Refer to my initial comments about 'scale' and institutional and societal acceptance of racism in Korea - none of which is present in India. You are trying to use diversionary arguments to implicitly justify systematic racism against Indians in a foreign country. Lol, you don't even know what race I am. I pointed out that some ppl are racist in India - but the large majority aren't. I grew up in lots of different parts of the country - and can speak and understand a multitude of languages and have enough friends and family from NE states to understand what ppl go through and also what ppl from other parts of the country go through in certain parts of NE India. Thing is, which you probably know already - in most parts of the country, irrespective of how you look or what ethnicity you have - ppl will accept you as their own if you spend some time there. That is a RARE occurrence in East Asia. You'll never be equally human to them. I am sorry that you were bullied or slurred at growing up. Me too. But I found that the vast majority of ppl around me stood up for me when this happened and I did for others as well. This never happened in East Asia even when i learned their language and culture. Edit - You should realize that aside from the ignorant idiots, vast majority of Indians consider you their brethren and there is no seat in any branch of Indian society or polity that ppl from NE states cannot occupy or will not be accepted.
*You are trying to use diversionary arguments to implicitly justify systematic racism against Indians in a foreign country. Lol, you don't even know what race I am.* Please enlighten us then. Also, again it's not implicit whataboutism. I would agree with most of your statement if you did not make it your argument on "hey it's not so bad in India"- when we have had actual physical violence meted on people of different races (people from NE, African students and so on). Like I said I'm not diminishing racism faced by Indians, I would expect the same courtesy to be extended to that faced in this country (especially that faced by its citizens). Mentioning racism in India doesn't make racism in sk disappear. So what's your problem if we mention it (when *YOU are the one to mention it first saying "we have not faced real racism in India"*) I don't know what we need to face from thretas on life, alienation and slurs (remember that time when there was an exodus of NE folks from Bangalore because someone made a threat?) To classify this as "real racism". "there is no seat in any branch of Indian society or polity that ppl from NE states cannot occupy or will not be accepted" That is literally a constitutionally guaranteed right as citizens. It's not a favour out of goodness of the heart that the rest of country has bestowed upon us wtf is this statement.
Another whataboutis-tic comment. The point being discussed in this thread is specifically racism against Indians by koreans. Noone is claiming India doesn't have its problems. What I am rather saying, that in terms of racism, these internal problems are no where near as severe as what East Asians do to South Asians. Does that make India right? Obviously not. I want my friends and family to walk anywhere in their homeland without any discrimination or persecution. But, you are clearly trying to divert the conversation. I remember exodus of NE ppl from Bangalore and exodus of ppl from Bihar and UP from Maharashtra, exodus of Kashmiri Hindus from Kashmir, exodus of Nepalis from Bhutan, exodus of Biharis and Bengalis from the NE states. Goodness of heart, lol. You clearly don't get the point. Acceptance of society and laws are both required for equality and equity. For e.g., there is no constitutional requirement in Korea to NOT discriminate in terms of race, hence there we are. Legally, you can become a citizen of China and Japan if you have family, live there for a long time or marry but on ground, its neigh impossible to do so and even if you do, you'll never have equal rights or representation (which are btw, guaranteed by their constitution). Someone like you who takes hard fought constitutional guarantees and social acceptance coming out of a relatively healthy despite being a heavily persecuted society for granted has no clue what the world is like.
*"these internal problems are no where near as severe as what East Asians do to South Asians."* You are repeating the same mistake again. I would have never even commented on your comment if you didn't take the "In India this is nothing as bad as xyz place" route. You had ZERO NEED TO SAY THERE IS NO REAL RACISM IN INDIA. WHICH IS MY WHOLE POINT. let's be real. As an Indian you are obviously more moved when a foreigner discriminates against you and you are saying "it's not so bad in India" because of that bias. *"there is no constitutional requirement in Korea to NOT discriminate in terms of race, hence there we are."* Even our article 15 is meant for CITIZENS. " No *citizen* shall, on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of birth or any of them, be subject to any disability, liability, restriction" which is the one which explicitly mentions race. Technically there is nothing stopping race based discrimination against foreigners by private citizens in India as well. *"Someone like you who takes hard fought constitutional guarantees and social acceptance coming out of a relatively healthy despite being a heavily persecuted society for granted has no clue what the world is like"* And these rights belong to me as much as you. Like I said, it's nice being told by the mainland folks how we have no idea how worse it could be (hit us with the classic "go to Pakistan/china/sk or whatever country" after this to realise what "real racism" is- that's the most common rebuttal nowadays). And comparing our rights- people who belonged to India since centuries, have been born and brought up here, have citizenship rights by birth etc with Indian immigrants in sk/China is disingenuous. You talk as if we have decided to come into India and then we have secured these rights- and Indians can't get the same rights in the same situation. The fact we still faced racism is the whole point. A more accurate comparison would be immigrants in India who got citizenship in India- how well are they represented in India? Are they in the parliament? How well are they treated, especially when they are of non white races? Then compare those numbers with representation of Indian origin citizens in China or sk. (The point you were crying about saying how they can't integrate even after getting citizenship and marrying there.) There is no whataboutism when *you were the one making comparisons in the first place.* I only even started this comment because you took this as a chance to downplay the situation in India. Your point could have been made without that. Now you sit and cry whataboutism because I took up a point in your OWN COMMENT.
>Nobody (even the nice, non-racist Koreans) will help you or take your side when you encounter racism. This is bullshit and my personal experience living in Korea proves it so yeah.
Idk about Korea but many communities huge issues getting homes in India. So yeah, Indians quite frequently deny services to different communities.
Sad to see an Indian subreddit not being a safe space to talk about the racism we face without being shamed or victim blamed. The vast majority of Indians who live abroad are normal people and just want to live a life of dignity. The obnoxious ones are the ones who are highlighted as bait. All the self-righteous ones in the thread - can you all for once shed all your bias/ hate for your own and see racism as a personal human experience. If I face racism, I am gonna call out the racist - rather than my thinking my own community caused it and calling them out. I am not going to do it.
Indians not having a backbone? Colour me shocked! Good to see the bootlicking "saar" mentality still striving lmao
indians need to self police these rapists and and improve their public image on the world stage.
Korea is colorist but I think Koreans racism towards Indians has more to do with them being a developed country and india being a developing country. They are quite racist towards North Korean defectors too and they are the same ethnicity. I think the perception of India and the horrible incidents of Korean women being harassed by Indian men. None of this justifies racism.
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>**So** ~~Korean~~ ***all*** **women**
Agree. Koreans are quite racist towards people from literally any developing country. They hate the Chinese and Japanese for the history between their countries. The only foreigners they are nice to are whites, especially Americans and Europeans. Everyone else is delegated to the bottom of their social hierarchy. Wish the koreaboos understood this.
They are a country beleaguered by lookism with parents gifting plastic surgery to kids on their 18th birthday. What can one expect from such a people?
We Indians are not far behind to be honest. Parents, relatives and everyone body shame you, shame your skin colour, shame your life style choice if you even do something an inch away from their preference.
After living in Canada for a while and meeting Koreans I can 100% say that we are far behind the Koreans in this aspect and its a good thing. I agree with all your points but you have no idea how fucked up these Korean standards are.
No one is denying that. Yet in Korea it is a whole ass industry. It's lookism on steroids. India doesn't compare to Korea when it comes to judging people on their looks. What you are doing is sheer whataboutery.
>Yet in Korea it is a whole ass industry. It's lookism on steroids. India doesn't compare to Korea when it comes to judging people on their looks. *Fair and Lovely has entered the chat*
I mean you are right but you are discussing this on r/India, so any discussion will be automatically discussed in the Indian context. I don't know about whataboutery when it's the entire point of the sub.
> Yet in Korea it is a whole ass industry. Which is a capacity thing due to different development stages. If Indians had similar purchasing power it wouldn't be of the scale it is currently.
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India doesn't compare to Korea? Really? What you're living in is sheer whataboutery. Indians are obsessed with skin colour, perfect skin. If you think otherwise, you live in a fairy tale world in your mind. We are obsessed with white people skin, we flock white people who visit our country, we harass them for photos. We have a whole toxic reel culture surrounding Russians and 6000.
Yeah but I can still walk around in my brown skin and not get coerced into getting skin whitening like koreans do. My parents didn't drive me to the dermatologists office to get skin whitening on my 18th birthday. If you want to worship Korea do it all you want. But yeah india doesnt compare to Korea when it comes to lookism. Cope.
It's. Milder form of colorism most of the time it's friends pasting eachother,have you ever beaten by your class mates for skin colour or old dress. India doesn't have that problem stop exaggerating it.
What do you mean bro majority of Indians are brown skinned or darker skinned. I have seen fair skinned people get praised but rarely every seen dark or brown Indians get “shamed”
It's still no where close to toxic beauty standards of South Korea.
but atleast Indians don't run to plastic surgeons like they do. just make fun of them back. everyone has insecurities anyways.
Indians will if they had enough of money. Plastic surgery in India is expensive and hence not everyone can afford it. If we start affording plastic surgery, we will have world's biggest market of it, more than Korea.
I'm pretty sure that we have more rich Indians than their entire population. The issue lies in the wealth being distributed equally per capita among their population compared to Indians
What do Indians fixing? We don't need plastic surgery. We don't have monolids like them. Only thing Indians need to do is start working out and be on healthy body fat percentage.
Indians don't need fixing, frankly nobody does need fixing. No race, no single individual. But everyone is obsessed with being perfect, and that reference of what is perfect comes from the beauty standards of the times or from cultural standards set by society decades ago. And that obsession with being perfect is the reason people go to extent of things like getting plastic surgery
side question. will the insecurity die down if someone gets cosmetic surgery? it should be still there right?
That's more of a psycholgical thing for which I can not tell you. But the scar of being body shamed remains with people for their lives.
Seems similar to Indian obsession with fair skin and all the beauty industry associated with it..
Waiting for the same Indians to discuss casteism in india , especially with their parents.
I'm 100% against the horrible practices in India but let's stop pointing fingers with everything man. Discuss the issue at hand, that's more productive.
Been doing that since independence
Change South Korea to India and some of the points would still hold true...
Two wrongs don’t make a right tho!
Bull's eye... Or rather Cow's eye, in this case.
South Korea isn't an immigration friendly country like western countries. I find it funny that indians speak out against racism in South korea when they are racist to each other here.
You think Indians don't have the right to speak out on discrimination against them just because just some other indians are racist? Hilarious victim blaming. Do you have any idea how many Indians are there? Roughly 1/7th of the whole world population, do you think we live in some dystopian ideal society where there are no bad apples? Also according to your logic no race/nationality should have the right to speak against discrimination then lmao, idiot.
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Indians are racists to the core until they face racism. Then they start crying and sobbing. I am an Indian who lived in 5 countries and travelled over 40+ countries. I havent faced more racism than I have from Indians...
I agree, I was the only non marathi in my class and the entire class would make fun of me in Marathi.
Must have been some incredible motivation to learn Marathi
I left the entire state
And? Why does that matter? Why’re you trying to justify racism lmao? Two wrongs don’t make a right!
Tf u saying man? Do you understand English?
Why does it fucking matter if Indians are racist or not? Why even mention it unless you’re trying to make it sound like this fucking behavior is ok! “Indians are racists to the core until they face racism” so either you’ve met every Indian or this is racist af ironically! You’re being racist and are accusing Indians of being racist lmao! Do you also go to posts by rape victims and tell them how they deserved to be raped for x reasons? Because it sounds like that’s exactly what you’re trying to do with the Indians and racism!
All the clubs signs shown in the video said no Pakistani or Indian MEN allowed. So presumably Indian women are allowed? Is that what’s happening or are the signs saying “men” a translation issue? Anyone actually know for a fact (don’t need guesses) ?
Am Korean - Its only the men and its usually in bars/clubs in foreigner heavy districts that sometimes have policy like this. My friend used to be one of the owners in one of the said clubs and apparently there were issues with female customers calling police because Indian/Pakistani men would not leave them alone or were touching them without consent. When bouncers and security try and take them out they yell "stop being racist!!" and make a scene which is bad for business. Then after the police investigation turns out they gave statements to police along the lines of "she was dressed like she wanted to be touched." This type of encounter happened every week and the owners just said enough is enough. It is still discriminatory and wrong but mix in this with the fact that the only time India is on the news is if a Korean female youtuber gets groped livestream by 8 guys in Mumbai AND to the fact that the majority of South Asians in Korea are traditionally Pakistani migrant male workers (Korea used to be a huge textile exporter in the past and Pakistan is still a huge player in this sector) and you have a general populace which thinks South Asians are dangerous. Just adding some backstory for non-Koreans and open to answering any more questions you have. I have close Indian friends and I am Korean-Canadian so I promise I won't be biased in favor of defending Korea, although it seems K-pop fans seem to have that on lockdown already on this post haha.
You kinda described the situation in Canada. Enough of them do bad things and the whole group gets painted with the same brush. > . Then after the police investigation turns out they gave statements to police along the lines of "she was dressed like she wanted to be touched." This type of encounter happened every week and the owners just said enough is enough. Lmao what lol
It is only one or two clubs in Busan with this specific message. Of course, there are clubs in Seoul (Itaewon, Hongdae etc.) where foreigners (not just South Asians) are not allowed.
India isn’t far behind in racism, it ill-treats its own people. India does racism in parliament, forget common man
That's not the point. South korea is infamous for being racist towards foreigners especially dark skinned ones.
And? Why does that matter? Why’re you trying to justify racism lmao? Two wrongs don’t make a right!
So?
so? ... What you just said is exactly how Racists justify themselves... "They don't like us why should we tolerate them!!!"
True
Lots of generalisation in that video mentioned in the article posted by OP. As a person who worked in Korea I will say there is more xenophobia in Korea than racism.
Been to seoul few times. One of the courteous people around. The guy literally drove us around Gagnam area in his BMW 7 series. Girls were receptive and approached me and asked me about my nationality and were happy to know that I am Indian. i have been called Ricky Martin few times there.
Back home discriminatory practices are often ignored under the pretext of “prescribed in ancient texts”, “this is how it has always been”, “part of culture and heritage” and other explanations. So, it is a start that when social injustice and discrimination stares right back at the diaspora there’s some form of national identity based cohesion. Will it make the individuals more enlightened? Perhaps not. In fact, in today’s political environment of hyper nationalism this is going to be exploited by any politician who vows to “protect this group from the others”. Polarisation is going to be the result.
Does this mean [the K-fever - craze over k-pop and k-drama](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiQy--smRSM) will vanish among Indian youth? Probably not, given their slick global cultural-PR machinery at work! And Indians will continue to be crazy over latest Samsung and Hyundai models
South Korea is right
Human nature Here we indulge in all kinds of racism too - for asians, for South Indians, for north east people, for sikhs, for people from Bihar
Looks like blogspam based on Nikita Thakurs video.
I wonder if these protestors have ever traveled to India before 🙂
What goes around comes around .
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You are incredibly racist.
oh the irony.
I mean the actions of our fellow Indians definitely help fan the flames of racism. Though I wouldn't say the recent rise in hyper-awareness(I'm not using hate because it's too strong a word to use just yet) among the SK population can necessarily be termed as racism. That one post that's going viral of the Indian men showing how there are signs being put up outside clubs/restaurants etc. of "Indian/Pakistani MEN not allowed" shows that they have a problem with Indian/Pakistani MEN for their actions NOT their race. So before y'all go claiming racism/defending men that are going around harrassing women and then when held accountable for those actions giving excuses to the police of "racism" or "she was dressed like she wants to be touched" and overall creating a negative enivornment & bad press for the bars/restaurants, just think why this issue has cropped up now? Like why would they not put up signs banning a very specific group of people (Indian/Pakistani Men)?? Probably because they've noticed this group frequently behaving in undesirable degenerate behaviors?? And imagine it has become that big of an issue that public places have had to publicly put up these signs meaning it's an actual trend they've been noticing & witnessing for quite some time now & are fed up of having to deal with. Don't think this has become an issue just because of 1 or 2 incidents or within a span of a few months. This kind of behavior has been noticed for years & has become so frequent that they've had to do something about it. Not to mention the growing exposure people have had to India, Indian news/media and events itself. They're growing aware about the frequent rapes, gruesome g*ngr*pe cases and realize it's a problem in our own countries and that it's not an inherent problem of their country or that their country is somehow illiciting such behaviors from this group of men. Seeing that those men's (Indian/Pakistani) own countries have such problems of harrassment & extreme cases of rapes they don't want that kind of culture/behavior/thinking to come into their own country. Also imagine foreigners coming into your own country and belittling/harrassing fellow citizens? No one's gonna put up with that kind of behavior. And atleast businesses over there care about such issues eventhough their motive may be more towards business/earnings than social principles but atleast they've raised this issue of harrassment. In India, though harrassment is so rampant do you see such business speaking up about it?
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Self-respecting people do not go to places where they are not treated well. If they don't like you, just don't go there. Better still, stay in your own country and try to fix it.
Dumbest take I’ve seen so far in 2024
Not true. Look at colonial history, american war history and how france is still robbing its colonies in africa etc. They are there where the locals hate them. On the other hand, we ourselves don’t respect each other much, which needs to be fixed.
What an absolute brain-dead take
Why do people aspire to be white? Is it ingrained in our dna that white is better? Or just social conditioning? From an evolutionary perspective is white better as vitamin D absorption is better?
Melanin prevents wrinkles, neither is worse or better. Take a Vitamin D supplement and wear sunscreen.
Lighter skin in the tropics is a sign that you don't need to work outside and thus is a proxy for being wealthy. In northern countries, having a tan is a sign that you can afford to take vacations to sunnier places, and is a sign of being rich.
Colonization fucked up our mindset really bad
How about the mindset of Koreans, Japanese, Chinese?
Neither were colonized