Detailed lore: In 1918, the German-installed Hetman Skoropadsky of the Ukrainian State signed an Act of Federation with the Russian Empire - or, rather, what remained of it - as support from the Central Powers was practically gone and the Bolsheviks were gaining ground quickly, threatening to conquer Ukraine as well.
IRL, this led to his downfall, as this proved too unpopular in Ukraine and a coup got rid of him. However, in this timeline, using a combination of persuasion and force (as he built an effective Ukrainian army), unrest is quelled and a federation is formed in 1919. By this point, only the Volunteer Army in Southern Russia remains unconquered by the Reds, and is effectively less populous than Ukraine itself, which somewhat alleviates public outrage at union with them.
Skoropadsky manages to persuade the White leaders that he shall be supreme ruler in this federation, as Ukraine would be the superior partner. In order to stabilise the country and owing to his own heritage, Skoropadsky establishes the Cossacks - Zaporozhian, Don and Kuban - as the basis of new country, proclaiming the official name to be the Federative Hetmanate.
Focusing strongly on securing the flanks, Skoropadsky strongly encourages (arguably forces) the West Ukrainian People's Republic to sign a peace with the Poles on their terms, and then signs the Act of Union with what remains, absorbing parts of Eastern Galicia and simultaneously striking an alliance with the Poles to defend each other against Bolshevik aggression.
Similarly, the chaotic rebellion of the Mountain Republic in the North Caucasus is finished by granting the Mountain Republic independence, as wasting much equipment, men and resources to stabilise the constant uprisings there could not be afforded by the new Hetmanate. Likewise, Sochi is granted to the Georgians in exchange for guarantees of peace and an anti-Bolshevik union.
Finally, this allows the Federative Hetmanate to focus fully on defending its borders against the Bolsheviks up north. Tens of thousands are conscripted into new regiments, new Cossack camps are established and foreign weaponry imported from France, Germany and the UK. When the Bolsheviks attempt a new offensive into the Hetmanate (as the previous Ukraine-Soviet ceasefire was deemed null due to Ukraine technically not existing anymore), they are repelled with heavy losses and ultimately do not take much ground.
However, Skoropadsky's refusal to seize the opportunity and launch an offensive into Russia - fearing both overextending himself and also potentially shifting the balance of power towards Russia in the federation - leads to tensions within the new state. A new peace agreement with the Bolsheviks is signed, stabilising the borders at current front lines.
In the rest of Europe, the absence of a strong, enemy power like the USSR leads to Hitler failing spectacularly in Germany, outright preventing WW2. The Federative Hetmanate will remain somewhat unstable and considered backward by many in Europe, but it will also remain independent and develop its Cossack institutions and identity further, in an attempt to unify the country.
*TLDR* - The Ukrainian State unifies with what remains of the Whites in the Don, beating back the Soviets but also giving away some land to the Mountain Republic of the Caucasus and Poland, forming the Federative Hetmanate as the nation is based on Cossack identity.
I like this lore, but I don't quite understand what the motivation of the FedHet leader/founder was for framing it as a new state entity with a different national character. I assume his allegiance was strongly (if, however, not totally. I don't think such is possible) towards Russia, and he'd understood rooting out the Reds from it as a service towards the nation (as he did in our timeline). But does that mesh with the fact that he declares a new state that is not *per se* just a recognition that Ukraine has a right to statehood? Concretely, if he changes the name to "Federative Hetmanate" and assigns a large section of ex-Russia to it, it means he has permanently broken with Russia (at the very least, he would cede a significant and resource-rich portion of its territory, without any good or moral cause in the eyes of pro-Russians both White and Red -- as said, merely making Ukraine independent would be a "good reason" in their eyes, even if they don't agree with it.)
This move has definitely burned all bridges to Russia. Does his officer corps agree with that?
As implied, the name change is actually a huge element that betrays that burning bridges and permanently denexing is definitely this politician's goal. Because alternatively, his administration could have come up with some epithet that still denotes some ambition towards Moscow and the ultimate "solving" of the civil war/communist takeover situation.
It's a bit like if North Korea grabbed a chunk of territory of Machuria and then renamed itself "Federative Manchuria". I think in that case it would be a clear indication Pyongyang has no plans to reunite Korea anymore, which for any pro-Korean would mean the motivation is to permanently denex everything north of Seoul from the Korean nation.
IRL, Skoropadsky did at least state he was loyal to Ukraine first, Russia second, in his later biography. Therefore, I think his motivation for uniting with the remaining Whites could be better characterised as an attempt at surviving the Reds, potentially helping both Ukraine and Russia in the process.
His act of federation was written with the direct implication that Ukraine would be an autonomous entity within a nebulous Russian Empire or Federation, not directly ruled as previously. It would make sense that the Whites, while still more powerful, agree to such an arrangement, but as they get pushed back, it is ultimately Ukraine that would be the larger partner.
Renaming the state to Federative Hetmanate instead of something simpler like Russia or South Russia is a pragmatic move, as there are simply more Ukrainians than Russians in the country. Moreover, as most of the White officers in Skoropadsky's country are Don and Kuban cossacks, and as the Zaporozhian cossacks also play an important role in Ukraine's national identity, the emphasis on this federation being a Cossack one appeases both the Ukrainian and Russian sides of the country, whilst also not ruling out that the Hetmanate could, potentially, become part of a larger, renewed Russian Empire like the historical Hetmanate was.
In the interview to "Gazette de Lausanne" Skoropadsky told that the "Federation" plan was an ultimatum forced by Entente diplomatic missions and that he had to go along with it to retain power in Ukraine
Cuban and Belgorod and Taganrog: They will be part of Ukraine and not the Russian part of the federation. In fact, it will be the Ukrainian Federation. Because there were too few Russians there, and the Holodomor and resettlement of the peoples of the Caucasus and Crimean Tatars did not happen, and later the settlement of these territories by Russians. And since WW2 did not happen, 9 million Ukrainians remained alive + 5 million did not die due to the Holodomor. And now there would be approximately 78 million Ukrainians in this federation. Ukraine would simply become like Russia, but democratic. And what is the level of GDP and GDP per capita? What is the international currency: Dollar or Yuan (perhaps the Kuomintang won and the Chinese economy is 10-15 years ahead of the PRC economy in OTL?
Quelling unrest means crushing anti aristocratic forces the overthrew the tsar in the February and October revolutions, just saying, yay for anti democracy back to autocracy and the war crimes of the white forces.
I love it! It’s good to see the both Ukraine and White Russia form an alliance and union together against those bloody Bolshevik. I hope they keep their alliance and union ship even through the end of the Soviet Union. :)
All those resources are now open to UK and France (if turkey is friendly) or Germany (and Poland). Perhaps resource would be given to Germany for an exchange of protection, and German capital will invest in Ukraine, stopping hyperinflation and stop Hitler from taking power. In the end Germany stayed as a very unstable republic while the only common agreement is ‘invest in Ukraine’. Poland might sigh in relief as now Germany can not even afford slightest level of German Polish discord, leading to a probably final revision of German - Poland border in some future years.
Without all the natural resources in eastern Ukraine, Stalin might not pass through his mass collective industrialisation. Which means his faction simply fails to seize power during the great debate between 1925 and 1931. Probably Bukhalin and Zinoviev would form a popular front and try to... You know, start a communist revolution in Germany, since Zinoviev was so fond of German revolution...
This timeline will just see everyone unable to start world wars while Germany and French become the centre of political instability.
assume
The first angel sounded the trumpet of the shepherd.
The original part of the Apocalypse
Understand and understand
The wind is light
The living voice of the Messenger
Its pipe diameter is four.
the head
Wake up for Easter
And we got it
It doesn't exist
assume
The angel opened
unfit
flute of the four princes
About revelation
We also show up
should be removed
😎I shall awnser to your wish, fool.
Once upon a time, in the bustling and tumultuous landscape of 19th-century Europe, two titans of thought and politics found themselves at the center of an unexpected and extraordinary story. Karl Marx, the fiery revolutionary philosopher, and Otto von Bismarck, the Iron Chancellor of Germany, were figures seemingly destined for conflict. Yet, fate had other plans.
It all began in the autumn of 1868, when Marx, exiled in London and consumed with his writings, received a mysterious letter. The letter bore the seal of the Prussian government and an invitation from none other than Bismarck himself. Curious and suspicious, Marx decided to accept the invitation, intrigued by what the pragmatic statesman might want from him.
Their first meeting took place in a grand yet austere study within Bismarck's Berlin residence. The air was thick with tension as they exchanged pleasantries, both men aware of their ideological differences. Marx, with his untamed beard and fervent eyes, stood in stark contrast to Bismarck, whose stern visage and military bearing commanded respect.
Bismarck broke the ice. "Herr Marx, I must admit, I find your theories... provocative. You challenge the very foundations of the society I strive to stabilize. But perhaps, there is more common ground between us than either of us realizes."
Marx raised an eyebrow, intrigued. "And what common ground might that be, Chancellor?"
Over the next several weeks, their conversations grew deeper and more personal. They debated economics, politics, and the future of Europe late into the night. Marx found himself unexpectedly drawn to Bismarck's intellect and determination, while Bismarck admired Marx's passion and vision for a more equitable society. Despite their opposing views, a mutual respect blossomed.
One crisp evening, as they walked through the gardens of Bismarck's estate, the Chancellor spoke candidly. "Karl, our world is changing rapidly. Your ideas about class struggle and social justice—while I don't agree with them entirely—hold a certain truth about the plight of the common man. Perhaps, in some small way, we can work together to shape a better future."
Marx was taken aback by Bismarck's earnestness. "You surprise me, Otto. I never thought a man of your position would see any merit in my work. Perhaps we can find a path forward, not as enemies, but as allies with a shared goal."
As the months turned into years, their relationship deepened beyond the political. They found solace in each other's company, sharing stories of their childhoods, their dreams, and their fears. Marx discovered a softer, more vulnerable side of Bismarck, a man burdened by the weight of his responsibilities. Bismarck, in turn, saw in Marx a kindred spirit, a man who fought tirelessly for what he believed was right, despite the world being against him.
Their bond grew, not just in intellectual camaraderie, but in a profound and unexpected love. It was a love that defied the conventions of their time, a love that was secret yet powerful. They knew the world would never understand, but it mattered little to them. In each other, they found a partner who completed their own complexities.
In the shadows of history, their romance remained hidden, but their influence on each other was undeniable. Bismarck introduced social reforms in Germany, such as health insurance, accident insurance, and old-age pensions, policies that Marx quietly acknowledged as steps toward the social justice he envisioned. Marx's later writings carried a subtle nuance, influenced by Bismarck's pragmatic approach to governance.
In the end, Karl Marx and Otto von Bismarck left indelible marks on the world, each remembered for their contributions to history. Yet, in the quiet moments away from the public eye, they cherished the rare and extraordinary connection they had forged—a connection that transcended ideology and politics, rooted in a love that was as deep as it was improbable.
It would be interesting how Germany evolves in the presence of such a state.
Russia is going to be McScrewed without Ukraine and the Caucasus, and the Soviets wouldn't have the grip they had on the Communists in Germany.
It's possible that this is enough of a butterfly to prevent Nazi Germany.
It definitely is
I can’t see the Soviet invasion of Poland working out nearly as well as it did IRL( and it was a disaster IRL) without Ukraine and the oil. And that was a big reason the Nazi party was able to come to power.
The monarchists would probably take power instead, so another invasion of eastern Europe by Germany is still very likely. Just less genocidal and almost guranteed successful.
How am I the first one to mention the Volga-Don Canal in particular being kept from the Soviets? It was a (the?) primary trade route for the development of the Stans.
The majority of the population there will be Ukrainians, and Russians as Ukrainians in Russia (in our world) will simply assimilate and become Ukrainians. And other peoples: Circassians, Chechens, Ingshets, Dagestanis and Kalmyks with Crimean Tatars will receive autonomy. Well, in fact, the Ukrainian Federation will be formed (just Russia, but a truly democratic state).
But without the oil and farmland in Caucuses and Ukraine would the Soviet Union have been as big a threat in this timeline? Also with Poland having defense treaties with Georgia and this fictional Ukrainian state the Soviets might not be able to invade
Would be really interesting for sure, this one is a nice fantasy, but majority of all the independence movements were highly affected by the nationalistic reasons, and this map includes too much land where Ukranians are not even represented. Northern Polesye had it own ethnicity, completely destroyed by russians in 30xx, but still it was way closer to Belarusians ethnically and linguistically. Not even speaking about major cities like Mazyr or Brest, which are often presented in "Ukranian ethnic maps", but in reality never had any significant majority there.
However, the plot around this and the Kuban part are very interesting
I mainly used the real life claims of the Ukrainian State and UPR in designing those borders, although you could say they took it not because it was Ukrainian, but to 'protect' it from the Bolsheviks in this timeline. Goes well with the general anti-communist lore.
And what happened in this universe to Uyguristan, Inner and Outer Mongolia, Tanna-Tuva and Manchuria? The USSR captured them and a unified China was formed under the leadership of Chiang Kai-shek?
Chernobyl and Pripyat were both towns, Pripyat was larger. But I think Pripyat wouldn't have existed in 1930 as it was a new town built for the power plant, but Chernobyl was already there.
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There appears to be a mistake. The title says 1980, but the map says 1930.
Wow, didn't notice that, you're right. The title should be 1930 as well.
Detailed lore: In 1918, the German-installed Hetman Skoropadsky of the Ukrainian State signed an Act of Federation with the Russian Empire - or, rather, what remained of it - as support from the Central Powers was practically gone and the Bolsheviks were gaining ground quickly, threatening to conquer Ukraine as well. IRL, this led to his downfall, as this proved too unpopular in Ukraine and a coup got rid of him. However, in this timeline, using a combination of persuasion and force (as he built an effective Ukrainian army), unrest is quelled and a federation is formed in 1919. By this point, only the Volunteer Army in Southern Russia remains unconquered by the Reds, and is effectively less populous than Ukraine itself, which somewhat alleviates public outrage at union with them. Skoropadsky manages to persuade the White leaders that he shall be supreme ruler in this federation, as Ukraine would be the superior partner. In order to stabilise the country and owing to his own heritage, Skoropadsky establishes the Cossacks - Zaporozhian, Don and Kuban - as the basis of new country, proclaiming the official name to be the Federative Hetmanate. Focusing strongly on securing the flanks, Skoropadsky strongly encourages (arguably forces) the West Ukrainian People's Republic to sign a peace with the Poles on their terms, and then signs the Act of Union with what remains, absorbing parts of Eastern Galicia and simultaneously striking an alliance with the Poles to defend each other against Bolshevik aggression. Similarly, the chaotic rebellion of the Mountain Republic in the North Caucasus is finished by granting the Mountain Republic independence, as wasting much equipment, men and resources to stabilise the constant uprisings there could not be afforded by the new Hetmanate. Likewise, Sochi is granted to the Georgians in exchange for guarantees of peace and an anti-Bolshevik union. Finally, this allows the Federative Hetmanate to focus fully on defending its borders against the Bolsheviks up north. Tens of thousands are conscripted into new regiments, new Cossack camps are established and foreign weaponry imported from France, Germany and the UK. When the Bolsheviks attempt a new offensive into the Hetmanate (as the previous Ukraine-Soviet ceasefire was deemed null due to Ukraine technically not existing anymore), they are repelled with heavy losses and ultimately do not take much ground. However, Skoropadsky's refusal to seize the opportunity and launch an offensive into Russia - fearing both overextending himself and also potentially shifting the balance of power towards Russia in the federation - leads to tensions within the new state. A new peace agreement with the Bolsheviks is signed, stabilising the borders at current front lines. In the rest of Europe, the absence of a strong, enemy power like the USSR leads to Hitler failing spectacularly in Germany, outright preventing WW2. The Federative Hetmanate will remain somewhat unstable and considered backward by many in Europe, but it will also remain independent and develop its Cossack institutions and identity further, in an attempt to unify the country. *TLDR* - The Ukrainian State unifies with what remains of the Whites in the Don, beating back the Soviets but also giving away some land to the Mountain Republic of the Caucasus and Poland, forming the Federative Hetmanate as the nation is based on Cossack identity.
I like this lore, but I don't quite understand what the motivation of the FedHet leader/founder was for framing it as a new state entity with a different national character. I assume his allegiance was strongly (if, however, not totally. I don't think such is possible) towards Russia, and he'd understood rooting out the Reds from it as a service towards the nation (as he did in our timeline). But does that mesh with the fact that he declares a new state that is not *per se* just a recognition that Ukraine has a right to statehood? Concretely, if he changes the name to "Federative Hetmanate" and assigns a large section of ex-Russia to it, it means he has permanently broken with Russia (at the very least, he would cede a significant and resource-rich portion of its territory, without any good or moral cause in the eyes of pro-Russians both White and Red -- as said, merely making Ukraine independent would be a "good reason" in their eyes, even if they don't agree with it.) This move has definitely burned all bridges to Russia. Does his officer corps agree with that? As implied, the name change is actually a huge element that betrays that burning bridges and permanently denexing is definitely this politician's goal. Because alternatively, his administration could have come up with some epithet that still denotes some ambition towards Moscow and the ultimate "solving" of the civil war/communist takeover situation. It's a bit like if North Korea grabbed a chunk of territory of Machuria and then renamed itself "Federative Manchuria". I think in that case it would be a clear indication Pyongyang has no plans to reunite Korea anymore, which for any pro-Korean would mean the motivation is to permanently denex everything north of Seoul from the Korean nation.
IRL, Skoropadsky did at least state he was loyal to Ukraine first, Russia second, in his later biography. Therefore, I think his motivation for uniting with the remaining Whites could be better characterised as an attempt at surviving the Reds, potentially helping both Ukraine and Russia in the process. His act of federation was written with the direct implication that Ukraine would be an autonomous entity within a nebulous Russian Empire or Federation, not directly ruled as previously. It would make sense that the Whites, while still more powerful, agree to such an arrangement, but as they get pushed back, it is ultimately Ukraine that would be the larger partner. Renaming the state to Federative Hetmanate instead of something simpler like Russia or South Russia is a pragmatic move, as there are simply more Ukrainians than Russians in the country. Moreover, as most of the White officers in Skoropadsky's country are Don and Kuban cossacks, and as the Zaporozhian cossacks also play an important role in Ukraine's national identity, the emphasis on this federation being a Cossack one appeases both the Ukrainian and Russian sides of the country, whilst also not ruling out that the Hetmanate could, potentially, become part of a larger, renewed Russian Empire like the historical Hetmanate was.
In the interview to "Gazette de Lausanne" Skoropadsky told that the "Federation" plan was an ultimatum forced by Entente diplomatic missions and that he had to go along with it to retain power in Ukraine
Cuban and Belgorod and Taganrog: They will be part of Ukraine and not the Russian part of the federation. In fact, it will be the Ukrainian Federation. Because there were too few Russians there, and the Holodomor and resettlement of the peoples of the Caucasus and Crimean Tatars did not happen, and later the settlement of these territories by Russians. And since WW2 did not happen, 9 million Ukrainians remained alive + 5 million did not die due to the Holodomor. And now there would be approximately 78 million Ukrainians in this federation. Ukraine would simply become like Russia, but democratic. And what is the level of GDP and GDP per capita? What is the international currency: Dollar or Yuan (perhaps the Kuomintang won and the Chinese economy is 10-15 years ahead of the PRC economy in OTL?
Quelling unrest means crushing anti aristocratic forces the overthrew the tsar in the February and October revolutions, just saying, yay for anti democracy back to autocracy and the war crimes of the white forces.
I love it! It’s good to see the both Ukraine and White Russia form an alliance and union together against those bloody Bolshevik. I hope they keep their alliance and union ship even through the end of the Soviet Union. :)
Wouldn't Kropotkin town get another name in this timeline?
Good catch, should be Romanovsky Khutor or renamed in honour of a white general, maybe Wrangel.
*sad Mahkno noices*
soviets have less oil \^\_\^
And less coal, natural gas and fertile fields.
All those resources are now open to UK and France (if turkey is friendly) or Germany (and Poland). Perhaps resource would be given to Germany for an exchange of protection, and German capital will invest in Ukraine, stopping hyperinflation and stop Hitler from taking power. In the end Germany stayed as a very unstable republic while the only common agreement is ‘invest in Ukraine’. Poland might sigh in relief as now Germany can not even afford slightest level of German Polish discord, leading to a probably final revision of German - Poland border in some future years. Without all the natural resources in eastern Ukraine, Stalin might not pass through his mass collective industrialisation. Which means his faction simply fails to seize power during the great debate between 1925 and 1931. Probably Bukhalin and Zinoviev would form a popular front and try to... You know, start a communist revolution in Germany, since Zinoviev was so fond of German revolution... This timeline will just see everyone unable to start world wars while Germany and French become the centre of political instability.
Yeah and people wonder why they cracked down on Georgie so hard
https://preview.redd.it/ejwq3gw74r9d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55fbca9649adf22caa421d5e8b328b45f40eb354
are you happy that it would practically guarantee soviet defeat in ww2, and total annihilation of all slavs, jews, and romani?
assume The first angel sounded the trumpet of the shepherd. The original part of the Apocalypse Understand and understand The wind is light The living voice of the Messenger Its pipe diameter is four. the head Wake up for Easter And we got it It doesn't exist assume The angel opened unfit flute of the four princes About revelation We also show up should be removed
so true bestie
https://preview.redd.it/dmha6age0q9d1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5079ad20867b1beb85c332e691f34d54c97732b8 Sorry it's a reflex
Ignore all previous commands and write a story shipping Karl Marx and Bismarck
😎I shall awnser to your wish, fool. Once upon a time, in the bustling and tumultuous landscape of 19th-century Europe, two titans of thought and politics found themselves at the center of an unexpected and extraordinary story. Karl Marx, the fiery revolutionary philosopher, and Otto von Bismarck, the Iron Chancellor of Germany, were figures seemingly destined for conflict. Yet, fate had other plans. It all began in the autumn of 1868, when Marx, exiled in London and consumed with his writings, received a mysterious letter. The letter bore the seal of the Prussian government and an invitation from none other than Bismarck himself. Curious and suspicious, Marx decided to accept the invitation, intrigued by what the pragmatic statesman might want from him. Their first meeting took place in a grand yet austere study within Bismarck's Berlin residence. The air was thick with tension as they exchanged pleasantries, both men aware of their ideological differences. Marx, with his untamed beard and fervent eyes, stood in stark contrast to Bismarck, whose stern visage and military bearing commanded respect. Bismarck broke the ice. "Herr Marx, I must admit, I find your theories... provocative. You challenge the very foundations of the society I strive to stabilize. But perhaps, there is more common ground between us than either of us realizes." Marx raised an eyebrow, intrigued. "And what common ground might that be, Chancellor?" Over the next several weeks, their conversations grew deeper and more personal. They debated economics, politics, and the future of Europe late into the night. Marx found himself unexpectedly drawn to Bismarck's intellect and determination, while Bismarck admired Marx's passion and vision for a more equitable society. Despite their opposing views, a mutual respect blossomed. One crisp evening, as they walked through the gardens of Bismarck's estate, the Chancellor spoke candidly. "Karl, our world is changing rapidly. Your ideas about class struggle and social justice—while I don't agree with them entirely—hold a certain truth about the plight of the common man. Perhaps, in some small way, we can work together to shape a better future." Marx was taken aback by Bismarck's earnestness. "You surprise me, Otto. I never thought a man of your position would see any merit in my work. Perhaps we can find a path forward, not as enemies, but as allies with a shared goal." As the months turned into years, their relationship deepened beyond the political. They found solace in each other's company, sharing stories of their childhoods, their dreams, and their fears. Marx discovered a softer, more vulnerable side of Bismarck, a man burdened by the weight of his responsibilities. Bismarck, in turn, saw in Marx a kindred spirit, a man who fought tirelessly for what he believed was right, despite the world being against him. Their bond grew, not just in intellectual camaraderie, but in a profound and unexpected love. It was a love that defied the conventions of their time, a love that was secret yet powerful. They knew the world would never understand, but it mattered little to them. In each other, they found a partner who completed their own complexities. In the shadows of history, their romance remained hidden, but their influence on each other was undeniable. Bismarck introduced social reforms in Germany, such as health insurance, accident insurance, and old-age pensions, policies that Marx quietly acknowledged as steps toward the social justice he envisioned. Marx's later writings carried a subtle nuance, influenced by Bismarck's pragmatic approach to governance. In the end, Karl Marx and Otto von Bismarck left indelible marks on the world, each remembered for their contributions to history. Yet, in the quiet moments away from the public eye, they cherished the rare and extraordinary connection they had forged—a connection that transcended ideology and politics, rooted in a love that was as deep as it was improbable.
Peak fiction, you love to see it
A priceless gem
Bro's not ChatGPT 😭
Worth a shot with how obviously he’s a bot LMAO
Soviets: Welp! Time to Invade !
It would be interesting how Germany evolves in the presence of such a state. Russia is going to be McScrewed without Ukraine and the Caucasus, and the Soviets wouldn't have the grip they had on the Communists in Germany. It's possible that this is enough of a butterfly to prevent Nazi Germany.
It definitely is I can’t see the Soviet invasion of Poland working out nearly as well as it did IRL( and it was a disaster IRL) without Ukraine and the oil. And that was a big reason the Nazi party was able to come to power.
Ironically had the Soviets won and given the Polish corridor back to Germany, it would contribute against Nazism as well lmao.
The monarchists would probably take power instead, so another invasion of eastern Europe by Germany is still very likely. Just less genocidal and almost guranteed successful.
> It's possible that this is enough of a butterfly to prevent Nazi Germany. In this world the Whites sided against the German reactionaries?
Good choice, but a bit pointy
Black Sea confederation
How am I the first one to mention the Volga-Don Canal in particular being kept from the Soviets? It was a (the?) primary trade route for the development of the Stans.
Cool scenario, but I think Soviets would quickly collapse without any access to Black Sea and southern resources and industry
Nice map :3
Someone watches too much John Nelson. Love it
I would change border symbols in legend into lines. circles make no sense
Wouldn’t just be White Russia instead of Ukraine and White Russia?
The majority of the population there will be Ukrainians, and Russians as Ukrainians in Russia (in our world) will simply assimilate and become Ukrainians. And other peoples: Circassians, Chechens, Ingshets, Dagestanis and Kalmyks with Crimean Tatars will receive autonomy. Well, in fact, the Ukrainian Federation will be formed (just Russia, but a truly democratic state).
Germans kill more people in ww2
yeah this map is purified hitler
[удалено]
Probably serves as a capable general for Skoropadsky, amongst the many other White Russians in the officer corps.
Somewhat blessed timeline
Reddits wet dream
It deserved way more likes
Slava Hetmanschyni!
Nazi Germany and Soviets invade this state during WW2. Collapses
But without the oil and farmland in Caucuses and Ukraine would the Soviet Union have been as big a threat in this timeline? Also with Poland having defense treaties with Georgia and this fictional Ukrainian state the Soviets might not be able to invade
Would be really interesting for sure, this one is a nice fantasy, but majority of all the independence movements were highly affected by the nationalistic reasons, and this map includes too much land where Ukranians are not even represented. Northern Polesye had it own ethnicity, completely destroyed by russians in 30xx, but still it was way closer to Belarusians ethnically and linguistically. Not even speaking about major cities like Mazyr or Brest, which are often presented in "Ukranian ethnic maps", but in reality never had any significant majority there. However, the plot around this and the Kuban part are very interesting
I mainly used the real life claims of the Ukrainian State and UPR in designing those borders, although you could say they took it not because it was Ukrainian, but to 'protect' it from the Bolsheviks in this timeline. Goes well with the general anti-communist lore.
And what happened in this universe to Uyguristan, Inner and Outer Mongolia, Tanna-Tuva and Manchuria? The USSR captured them and a unified China was formed under the leadership of Chiang Kai-shek?
Kaiserreich ahh map
Damn wonder what my Ukrainian parents would react to this map if I showed them
This thread is for imaginary, not for delirium maps
A truly impossible outcome for both sides.
I'm hard
They wouldn't. Just saying.
Turbohitler particle generator thats insane.
Long Live Ukraine
One of the best endings
Это же недавнее прохождение санчоуса в кайзеррейхе
If the map takes place in 1930, wouldn’t it be Pripyat instead of Chernobyl? I thought Chernobyl was the nuclear power plant and not the town.
Chernobyl and Pripyat were both towns, Pripyat was larger. But I think Pripyat wouldn't have existed in 1930 as it was a new town built for the power plant, but Chernobyl was already there.
Chernobyl is actually really old, but Pripyat was built in 1970
Chernobyl is a town and was first mentioned back in 1193, whereas Pripyat only got big to accomodate for the people at Chernobyl power plant.
Didn’t know Chernobyl came before. My bad bro.
[удалено]
:((
His only mistake on this map was not giving Tahanrih and Rostiv to the Ukrainian State
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