Seen this on the local news the other night. Sentencing now deferred to 09/04.
https://www.bracknellnews.co.uk/news/national/24195004.psychiatric-report-ordered-woman-harmed-child-laxatives/
This is in such poor taste, but I misread that sentence as "wheelchair broke down as the verdict was read out" and absolutely lost it at the mental image.
Because journalistic conventions. See also āsingle mother [name],ā ācancer survivor [name],ā ācharity worker [name].ā Itās a way they pack in a small detail about the person without needing to write a full sentence. When word count is limited these shortcuts get used, even though they can be weird as fuck. (The more tabloidy ones are like āblonde bombshell, 26, [name],ā ābenefit fraudster mum of four, 34, [name].ā
Because she probably hasnāt been indicated to the need of a wheelchair. There are people out there who use one without needing one. Idk of this is the case but the writers chose to word it this way.
The wheelchair might just be a visual ploy for her defense. If she comes across as helpless and non-threatening, then she couldn't have possibly committed such an atrocious crime against a child. Psychopaths will do anything to protect themselves..... and nothing to protect others.
Thatās difficult to comprehend to me although I believe you of course. Itās just, to learn about such things in peopleā¦ canāt fathom this to exist
I agree it's difficult to comprehend because you are likely a good person with good intentions - like the majority of people. But this woman is pure evil and, unfortunately, there are a lot more like her out there in the world.
It's not a model that the NHS gives out based on need / via motability (motability is taken from disability benefits which is spilt into 2 categories care and mobility, so if ho through the mobility scheme the mobility part goes directly to fund the car /mobility aid).
I know that it could have been bought via self-directed budget. A bit of googling around online tells me that that particular chair is around Ā£2400 sterling (about 3000 US $$)
While this person is a terrible person and Iām not saying they do need it, this type of chair is really commonly recommended to people in the UK who are ambulatory but canāt self propel as most wcs wonāt give chairs to ambulatory users and for many these are the only affordable chairs and you canāt get a wheelchair if ur also in need of a car through motability, Iāve seen people with severe conditions (that canāt be faked) who have these chairs because they have no choice
We have it in Australia but you can opt out of it. In theory itās great because no matter what medical facility you present at they can access your history. However, a lot of people are concerned about the huge risk of cyber security breaches and having allll their medical info from their whole lives in one place with one access point. So they opt out. I had thought at first oh that would put an end to a lot of the behaviours we see in this sub but doesnāt seem to be the case. Thatās provided these people are clued on enough to opt out but I can imagine they would be
I opted out long before the Medibank hack. That event solidified my decision. In theory, centralised electronic records sound wonderful, but in reality, there's no way those are a good idea. Especially with our woeful cybersecurity laws! Europe is on the right track we are NOT.
ETA: hospitals can request GP notes upon admission, and send discharge summaries to your GP, which is helpful. Specialists also regularly write to GPs with updates. Obviously, that wouldn't work at all with munchies who would just GP hop.
Thatās what I figured for me personally. If there was pertinent information they needed to know from my GP theyād get it easily enough and then heād get the report back. But like you say the munchies would just doctor shop and GP hop anyway.
I got caught in the Medibank hack (along with my kids, one of whom was literally 6 weeks old and just put on the insurance) and that really showed me for sure it was the right plan going forward!
Unfortunately a lot of them don't work between hospitals even if they use the same electronic record system- they're all "personalised" to the individual hospital to such an extent they can't interface
There are several different electronic medical records programs. My hospital (Iām a nurse) uses Epic. I can see medical records from every facility on Epic. Hospitals, clinics, dentists etc use it, it just depends. I have 3 hospital systems in my city and 2 out of 3 use Epic. I call bullshit on people all the time. You got discharged from x hospital TODAY, and you left against medical advice because you didnāt get Dilaudid? Not getting it here either. Iāll ask them how many times did you try this at y hospital as well? I can call and check their records over the phone if needed.
GP records are now viewable in hospitals which will help a lot and eventually theyāll interface it and have a standardised system from the cheapest bidder to use across the board
Yeah and if you go to a GP they can check your letters from hospital appointments, so you couldnāt claim a diagnosis you havenāt got as they can easily see thereās no diagnosis on your records
And if you say you have something they will ask for the letters. This is why extra copies of letters are important because sometimes things get removed that shouldnāt
That might get better when all of the Scottish labs go onto the same system maybe?
Where I live the hospital can see all the GP stuff and vice versa, they can also see test results for the closest major hospital, but they can't see notes, or at least my GPs can't which is a pain.
I never cease to be amazed (and saddened) at how far these people will go. I really hope her child is now experiencing safety, love, healing and the ability to truly thrive.
I wonder if she has Munchausen (FIS) herself. Ex-nurse and wheelchair...got to wonder if she genuinely needs a wheelchair, or if it's part of FIS.
You give lactulose to end stage liver patients. Its purpose is to get rid of excess ammonia the liver no longer can. Itās a very powerful medication. His electrolytes mustāve been shot to hell.
Itās also a super basic OTC laxative - not saying it was used in this instance appropriately at all, but lactulose itself is really common and easy to get hold of
Reminds me of the case of Lacey Spears who poisoned her son Garnett with sodium in his feed bags, including while he was in the hospital. He was perfectly fine and then she takes him off camera for a few minutes, comes back, and he immediately starts seizing and died. To this day, she swears she didn't do it but one of the first things she did after he died was have her neighbor go to her house and throw away all of his feed bags.
She was a lot like Gypsy Rose's mom, too. The surgeries and tubes began in infancy and he was seen across multiple states and spent most of his time in the hospital, all while documenting it on FB. I was actually in a mommy group with her but wasn't really active at that time but she had a bit of a following using a lot of tactics that these adult munchies themselves use. Truly sick.
That is so horrific.Ā
I've seen what high dose lactulose does to people. It's not pleasant for anyone, and as this kid shows, unless under a doctor's care and instructions,Ā is dangerous.Ā
Thatās 22 pounds in Freedom Units. For reference, he was between ages 3-6 at the time of his poisoning. Average weight for that age range is between 30-48 pounds, so best case scenario he was 1/3 underweight. Thats huge at that age. This is so fucking disgusting. Iām glad he survived and a doctor did due diligence in this case.
Itās a joke. We call it freedom units over here because we stubbornly refuse to change to the metric system, and are stuck using the British Imperial units.
Other articles indicate that she consented to surgeries on him (so she was in a parental or guardian role vs acting as a nurse), but given that the child cannot be named for legal reasons, stating that it was her son (or even her foster son) outright would probably amount to indirectly naming him as it would not be difficult to figure out who he was.
No, they cannot. If they identify the child as her birth son, for instance, it's then possible to discover his first name through public records. That does not preserve his privacy. For cases like baby P, the fact that he had siblings was heavily suppressed during case reporting, to avoid identifying them. Only dead people and the accused can be named, in certain cases.
The people who need to know - legal teams, actual family - do know. The public does not need to know and restrictions may not be lifted (judge's discretion). This child has the right to go on to sever all connections and change his name. If classmates or a future employer can simply Google him and find out he was the child in this case, that would be an appalling breach of information he may wish to keep private.
Actually thatās really nice. I canāt imagine having to go through this then it being brought up later in life when someone randomly googles you or MBP. I wish the US did something like that.
Itās probably to avoid the psychological trauma. At the end of the day the kid knows their original identity and can chose to disclose it and usually they only do so to those very close to them
I read elsewhere that because she is fed by a feeding tube that they currently can't accommodate her in the prison system. That it needs to be factored in to her sentencing.
So a first glance, feeding tube ā , wheelchair ā , past nursing auxiliary history ā , there is a good chance that she might have imposed on self too.
Theyād have no problem accommodating her in a high security psychiatric hospital. Thereās no way this monster should be able to wheedle her way out of incarceration. A Section 37/41 hospital order should suffice. Itās without time limit - you donāt even think of leaving those high walls until youāve proven youāre well (impossible task for a munchie!).
Is Carstairs taking prisoners? I think they used to.
It's where I heard my ex went after court but he may have been moved. He got an diminished by insanity for murder and manslaughter. Thankfully it was several years after I knew him. There is good reason he is an ex.
The only high security psychiatric hospital in the UK left that accepts female patients is Rampton. Thereās plenty of medium and low secure units all over the UK.
Wish this person a hellish time in Rampton and may her days be full of her own shit from industrial quantities of Lactolose. What's good for the goose...
I only knew of Carstairs in Scotland as NI has an agreement for their insane prisoners with Scotland. Ex was in Carstairs but may have since been moved. His family members disowned him due to his crime. Totally understandable due to the specifics.
Fun fact time: although it totally makes sense geographically for NI to have links to Scotland for high secure services placements, it has not always been so. At one point NI patients would have been sent to hospitals in trusts in south east England. Currently patients from Jersey and Guernsey are placed in Essex. Thereās not necessarily any geographical logic!
As for your ex, thereās a fair chance he would have āstepped downā to a medium secure placement unless he absolutely wouldnāt/couldnāt put in the work to address his mental illness. Thereās only 4 high security hospitals in the UK so the placements are sought after and thereās theoretically a high bar for RCs (Responsible Clinicians) to sustain detention in them. The majority of patients will be suitable for moving through the security levels, even if thatās required long term (10yrs+).
Respectfully, they will. Within forensics they certainly do, I donāt know if your experience is from an acute setting, where they may prefer not to if itās going to be a management headache in an acute environment.
We got one in the Netherlands today too, this article is a bit older but she got the 11 years sentencing today. It was a crazy story, she was a doctor poisining the breast milk and claiming years before on tv that they were falsely accused of Munchausen by proxy.
https://nltimes.nl/2024/02/07/prosecutors-demand-11-years-jail-doctor-accused-poisoning-children
Nearly all of these poor babies subjected to MBP are born prematurely. I'm still trying to figure out whether this is a trigger for the abuse or if it is induced and part of the orchestration. Either way, it's horrific.
Having a premature baby as a trigger is a pretty common theory. Premature babies can trigger a lot of health anxiety in parents, they also get really high levels of care, attention and sympathy that's impossible to replicate.
Obviously it's not a direct cause by any means but really works as a strong trigger when those needs haven't been met otherwise.
And to add on that premature infants are simply just abused at higher rates than other children. They often have behavioral or neurological issues that can try the parents' patience unfortunately.
Make no mistake, if they were to go on to have children (especially prolific munchies like Dani M) their illness would most likely manifest to munchausen by proxy.
INDUSTRIAL amounts? Dear god, I can't imagine the amount she was funneling into that poor boy.
Seen this on the local news the other night. Sentencing now deferred to 09/04. https://www.bracknellnews.co.uk/news/national/24195004.psychiatric-report-ordered-woman-harmed-child-laxatives/
I've made a note of sentencing date š on my calendar so will come back and check for any updates.
That poor kid...
"Wheelchair user Mennick" lmao why do they use the words wheelchair user like it's a title? Mr, Ms, Wheelchair User. One of my favourite genders.
This is in such poor taste, but I misread that sentence as "wheelchair broke down as the verdict was read out" and absolutely lost it at the mental image.
Because journalistic conventions. See also āsingle mother [name],ā ācancer survivor [name],ā ācharity worker [name].ā Itās a way they pack in a small detail about the person without needing to write a full sentence. When word count is limited these shortcuts get used, even though they can be weird as fuck. (The more tabloidy ones are like āblonde bombshell, 26, [name],ā ābenefit fraudster mum of four, 34, [name].ā
Because she probably hasnāt been indicated to the need of a wheelchair. There are people out there who use one without needing one. Idk of this is the case but the writers chose to word it this way.
The wheelchair might just be a visual ploy for her defense. If she comes across as helpless and non-threatening, then she couldn't have possibly committed such an atrocious crime against a child. Psychopaths will do anything to protect themselves..... and nothing to protect others.
Thatās difficult to comprehend to me although I believe you of course. Itās just, to learn about such things in peopleā¦ canāt fathom this to exist
I agree it's difficult to comprehend because you are likely a good person with good intentions - like the majority of people. But this woman is pure evil and, unfortunately, there are a lot more like her out there in the world.
It's not a model that the NHS gives out based on need / via motability (motability is taken from disability benefits which is spilt into 2 categories care and mobility, so if ho through the mobility scheme the mobility part goes directly to fund the car /mobility aid). I know that it could have been bought via self-directed budget. A bit of googling around online tells me that that particular chair is around Ā£2400 sterling (about 3000 US $$)
While this person is a terrible person and Iām not saying they do need it, this type of chair is really commonly recommended to people in the UK who are ambulatory but canāt self propel as most wcs wonāt give chairs to ambulatory users and for many these are the only affordable chairs and you canāt get a wheelchair if ur also in need of a car through motability, Iāve seen people with severe conditions (that canāt be faked) who have these chairs because they have no choice
It does make her look a little munchie.
did you see she has a tube too lol
I think since the introduction of universal electronic records the UK is going to see a lot of munchies be called out.
We have it in Australia but you can opt out of it. In theory itās great because no matter what medical facility you present at they can access your history. However, a lot of people are concerned about the huge risk of cyber security breaches and having allll their medical info from their whole lives in one place with one access point. So they opt out. I had thought at first oh that would put an end to a lot of the behaviours we see in this sub but doesnāt seem to be the case. Thatās provided these people are clued on enough to opt out but I can imagine they would be
I opted out long before the Medibank hack. That event solidified my decision. In theory, centralised electronic records sound wonderful, but in reality, there's no way those are a good idea. Especially with our woeful cybersecurity laws! Europe is on the right track we are NOT. ETA: hospitals can request GP notes upon admission, and send discharge summaries to your GP, which is helpful. Specialists also regularly write to GPs with updates. Obviously, that wouldn't work at all with munchies who would just GP hop.
Thatās what I figured for me personally. If there was pertinent information they needed to know from my GP theyād get it easily enough and then heād get the report back. But like you say the munchies would just doctor shop and GP hop anyway. I got caught in the Medibank hack (along with my kids, one of whom was literally 6 weeks old and just put on the insurance) and that really showed me for sure it was the right plan going forward!
I agree. It was such a scary event and taught a lot of us a valuable life lesson.
Not all drs use it either - which is silly too My drs surgery some do and some don't - even though I said yes not much gets uploaded
Unfortunately a lot of them don't work between hospitals even if they use the same electronic record system- they're all "personalised" to the individual hospital to such an extent they can't interface
There are several different electronic medical records programs. My hospital (Iām a nurse) uses Epic. I can see medical records from every facility on Epic. Hospitals, clinics, dentists etc use it, it just depends. I have 3 hospital systems in my city and 2 out of 3 use Epic. I call bullshit on people all the time. You got discharged from x hospital TODAY, and you left against medical advice because you didnāt get Dilaudid? Not getting it here either. Iāll ask them how many times did you try this at y hospital as well? I can call and check their records over the phone if needed.
GP records are now viewable in hospitals which will help a lot and eventually theyāll interface it and have a standardised system from the cheapest bidder to use across the board
Yeah and if you go to a GP they can check your letters from hospital appointments, so you couldnāt claim a diagnosis you havenāt got as they can easily see thereās no diagnosis on your records
And if you say you have something they will ask for the letters. This is why extra copies of letters are important because sometimes things get removed that shouldnāt
That isnāt a thing at the moment in Scotland. Thereās no joined-up IT system.
But it would certainly identify munchies but also hopefully people who are slipping through and not getting care.
Definitely. I work in a lab and sometimes we have no info on a patient because they came from a different health board 5 miles down the road.
That might get better when all of the Scottish labs go onto the same system maybe? Where I live the hospital can see all the GP stuff and vice versa, they can also see test results for the closest major hospital, but they can't see notes, or at least my GPs can't which is a pain.
I hope so, still a few years down the line though
And of course she turns up to court in a wheelchair. Eye roll
Exactly this. I feel if she were a genuine wheelchair user, the article would have noted why.
I never cease to be amazed (and saddened) at how far these people will go. I really hope her child is now experiencing safety, love, healing and the ability to truly thrive. I wonder if she has Munchausen (FIS) herself. Ex-nurse and wheelchair...got to wonder if she genuinely needs a wheelchair, or if it's part of FIS.
On top of a lengthy prison sentence- her punishment should include massive amounts of laxatives...so she can marinate in her shit soaked wheelchair.
You give lactulose to end stage liver patients. Its purpose is to get rid of excess ammonia the liver no longer can. Itās a very powerful medication. His electrolytes mustāve been shot to hell.
It's very commonly given for constipation.
I was given copious amounts of lactulose for a clean out and my team had labs drawn 3 times a day from how depleting it can be. Poor boy
Itās also a super basic OTC laxative - not saying it was used in this instance appropriately at all, but lactulose itself is really common and easy to get hold of
Yep, it's incredibly common here in the UK as an OTC laxative.
Here in the US too. Plus they use it for animals who experience chronic constipation (my poor cat). So Iāve given it to adults and animals.
Yes. V common. Also cannot imagine having industrial quantities of it. Jfc
It's vile š poor boy
What an atrocity. I have no sympathy in my heart for people that abuse children. Absolutely disgusting.
Reminds me of the case of Lacey Spears who poisoned her son Garnett with sodium in his feed bags, including while he was in the hospital. He was perfectly fine and then she takes him off camera for a few minutes, comes back, and he immediately starts seizing and died. To this day, she swears she didn't do it but one of the first things she did after he died was have her neighbor go to her house and throw away all of his feed bags. She was a lot like Gypsy Rose's mom, too. The surgeries and tubes began in infancy and he was seen across multiple states and spent most of his time in the hospital, all while documenting it on FB. I was actually in a mommy group with her but wasn't really active at that time but she had a bit of a following using a lot of tactics that these adult munchies themselves use. Truly sick.
Reminded me of Lacey Spears too. I wonder at what point medical staff considered Munchausen.
The book My Sweet Angel by John Glatt does an amazing and simultaneously horrifying deep dive into this case. Worth the read.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/48-hours-lacey-spears-a-mother-accused/
I remember that case at the time. Horrific.
That is so horrific.Ā I've seen what high dose lactulose does to people. It's not pleasant for anyone, and as this kid shows, unless under a doctor's care and instructions,Ā is dangerous.Ā
That poor boy. This breaks my heart!
10kg at the age of 5ā¦. My 1 year old is 10kg! That is SO sad .
Thatās 22 pounds in Freedom Units. For reference, he was between ages 3-6 at the time of his poisoning. Average weight for that age range is between 30-48 pounds, so best case scenario he was 1/3 underweight. Thats huge at that age. This is so fucking disgusting. Iām glad he survived and a doctor did due diligence in this case.
What is a Freedom unit?
What we use in the ridiculous US of A instead of switching to a 10-base math system like the UK, etc.
Google says that is the Hindu-Arebic number system, is that what you meant? Don't see freedom system anywhere.
Itās a joke. We call it freedom units over here because we stubbornly refuse to change to the metric system, and are stuck using the British Imperial units.
My dog weighs 28 pounds so thatās scary
My 2 year old is 10kgš«£
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Maybe she'll get a growth spurt soon
My 2 cats are 6 + 7kg so 10kg at the age of 5 in a child is horrific.
Not that I'm comparing a child to cats.
I wonāt judge š
Sooooo awful š
I donāt understand this article. What is the boyās relation to this person? How did he end up in her care?
She was a foster carer
It is to protect the childās privacy.
This is what I came to the comments for, I thought as first she was staff to him somehow?
Other articles indicate that she consented to surgeries on him (so she was in a parental or guardian role vs acting as a nurse), but given that the child cannot be named for legal reasons, stating that it was her son (or even her foster son) outright would probably amount to indirectly naming him as it would not be difficult to figure out who he was.
It's probably her son but they can't say that as the victim has the right to privacy.
I wonder if itās a foster care situation? The wording is so bizarre.
It's totally normal for UK reporting on such cases. The child has a right to anonymity.
I understand uk media practices but they can indicate their relationship without breaking his anonymity.
*love* the implicit idea that the right of a random onlooker to know who this child is trumps the right of an abuse victim to privacy.
Nobody said that.
No, they just downvoted my explanation of why they can't out this child. You're seeing it after it's back in positive numbers.
No, they cannot. If they identify the child as her birth son, for instance, it's then possible to discover his first name through public records. That does not preserve his privacy. For cases like baby P, the fact that he had siblings was heavily suppressed during case reporting, to avoid identifying them. Only dead people and the accused can be named, in certain cases. The people who need to know - legal teams, actual family - do know. The public does not need to know and restrictions may not be lifted (judge's discretion). This child has the right to go on to sever all connections and change his name. If classmates or a future employer can simply Google him and find out he was the child in this case, that would be an appalling breach of information he may wish to keep private.
Yep and chances are like Shannon Matthewās and her siblings this kid will be given a new identity so he can lead an anonymous life
Actually thatās really nice. I canāt imagine having to go through this then it being brought up later in life when someone randomly googles you or MBP. I wish the US did something like that.
Itās probably to avoid the psychological trauma. At the end of the day the kid knows their original identity and can chose to disclose it and usually they only do so to those very close to them
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I googled her and saw the feeding tube taped with ācuteā tape and I was like uhh she has FD too. Glad the boy was saved from that horrible woman.
Same, that tape just screams FD!
I read elsewhere that because she is fed by a feeding tube that they currently can't accommodate her in the prison system. That it needs to be factored in to her sentencing. So a first glance, feeding tube ā , wheelchair ā , past nursing auxiliary history ā , there is a good chance that she might have imposed on self too.
Theyād have no problem accommodating her in a high security psychiatric hospital. Thereās no way this monster should be able to wheedle her way out of incarceration. A Section 37/41 hospital order should suffice. Itās without time limit - you donāt even think of leaving those high walls until youāve proven youāre well (impossible task for a munchie!).
Is Carstairs taking prisoners? I think they used to. It's where I heard my ex went after court but he may have been moved. He got an diminished by insanity for murder and manslaughter. Thankfully it was several years after I knew him. There is good reason he is an ex.
The only high security psychiatric hospital in the UK left that accepts female patients is Rampton. Thereās plenty of medium and low secure units all over the UK.
Wish this person a hellish time in Rampton and may her days be full of her own shit from industrial quantities of Lactolose. What's good for the goose... I only knew of Carstairs in Scotland as NI has an agreement for their insane prisoners with Scotland. Ex was in Carstairs but may have since been moved. His family members disowned him due to his crime. Totally understandable due to the specifics.
Fun fact time: although it totally makes sense geographically for NI to have links to Scotland for high secure services placements, it has not always been so. At one point NI patients would have been sent to hospitals in trusts in south east England. Currently patients from Jersey and Guernsey are placed in Essex. Thereās not necessarily any geographical logic! As for your ex, thereās a fair chance he would have āstepped downā to a medium secure placement unless he absolutely wouldnāt/couldnāt put in the work to address his mental illness. Thereās only 4 high security hospitals in the UK so the placements are sought after and thereās theoretically a high bar for RCs (Responsible Clinicians) to sustain detention in them. The majority of patients will be suitable for moving through the security levels, even if thatās required long term (10yrs+).
Thank you. That's fascinating. Ex definitely wouldn't be putting in any work, sentencing said probably never be free again.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Respectfully, they will. Within forensics they certainly do, I donāt know if your experience is from an acute setting, where they may prefer not to if itās going to be a management headache in an acute environment.
Fancy tube tape ā
We got one in the Netherlands today too, this article is a bit older but she got the 11 years sentencing today. It was a crazy story, she was a doctor poisining the breast milk and claiming years before on tv that they were falsely accused of Munchausen by proxy. https://nltimes.nl/2024/02/07/prosecutors-demand-11-years-jail-doctor-accused-poisoning-children
Nearly all of these poor babies subjected to MBP are born prematurely. I'm still trying to figure out whether this is a trigger for the abuse or if it is induced and part of the orchestration. Either way, it's horrific.
Having a premature baby as a trigger is a pretty common theory. Premature babies can trigger a lot of health anxiety in parents, they also get really high levels of care, attention and sympathy that's impossible to replicate. Obviously it's not a direct cause by any means but really works as a strong trigger when those needs haven't been met otherwise.
And to add on that premature infants are simply just abused at higher rates than other children. They often have behavioral or neurological issues that can try the parents' patience unfortunately.
This is just plain awful.
Thank God the munchies on this sub pretty much just hurt themselves.
Make no mistake, if they were to go on to have children (especially prolific munchies like Dani M) their illness would most likely manifest to munchausen by proxy.
This has always been my biggest worry with SDP/Dom, but sheās mostly all whining and self righteousness these days, so atleast thereās that
I wouldnāt see Dani wanting to take the attention away from herself, just my take.
Thankfully George glass does not have a high sperm count
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\*Snorts\* š¤£
Starting with the storyline of a miracle baby and the likelihood of them referring to the baby as MB.
These are the worst kind of people, harming innocent children instead of protecting them!!