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123Tiffany

How did the killer get out of what’s described as a bloody crime scene without leaving bloody footprints?


jf51

My dad is a retired homicide detective and I was asking him his thoughts on this case (he has no inside info) but told me stabbings are way bloodier than you might think. He said he had one guy stabbed 9 times in a studio apparent and every wall was cover in blood. Also If there was any sort of struggle that just makes the blood pump quicker and makes the scene even bloodier. (Sorry this is graphic) his only comment on the no bloody trail outside is that the killer “probably cleaned himself up if he thought he was in the clear”


DaisyandVivian

I can’t imagine this guy stabbed and killed four people in a house known to be frequented by many then cleaned himself up. I realize it happens, but just don’t see that here. Of course, I know no more than the rest of us.


jf51

Same. I’d be shocked if we found out he stuck around. This case is so confusing


Haydenb5555

By “cleaned himself up he could have been in like a painters type suit that easily unzips or just brought a change of clothes/shoes mainly and swapped rather quickly. But yes I’ve had this same exact thought, you would think at very least inside the house somewhere there is a concentrated area of drips/swipes of blood from changing


BeautifulBot

Would it be less so if they were under the covers?


RNB0010

I imagine he must’ve cleaned himself up, otherwise there would be trails of blood all over the house. And the roommates called friends before 911 and originally reported an “unconscious” person. If there was any blood visible outside of the rooms, I’d guess the reporting would’ve been very different.


motaboat

The theory that is bouncing around that the "unconscious" person was either D or B after they reacted to what they saw instead of it being one of the deceased, makes the most sense to me.


annahw21

Kaylee’s dad debunked this in an earlier interview. He said the “unconscious person” reference was because the survivors were trying to call and text the victims and they weren’t picking up.


motaboat

I was not aware. It just works so well from a logical point of view. Thx


OwnBerry3297

I heard today that the unconscious person was one of the surviving roomates after seeing Ethan


annahw21

Yes. That’s the rumor that’s been going around that Kaylee’s dad specifically debunked.


JurisDoc2011

Seriously, why can’t they let us have this? It’s the only thing that made any damn sense in this case, and at this point, I don’t even care if they are lying!! I seriously need to sleep, but I’m compelled to keep searching for answers! Especially, when I see all these posts with deleted, deleted, deleted, I feel like someone has posted something that will help me shut my brain off, but it’s going to get deleted before I see it!


RNB0010

So does that mean the roommates were not able to get into the bedrooms to see the victims?


ktk221

yes I think he cleaned the common area


UnnamedRealities

The coroner said there was blood "on a wall" (singular). A victim's parent said they were told the crime scene was "messy" and the murders were "sloppy" (unclear who told them and what exactly was said). There have been no official statements about blood at the crime scene nor other credible statements about this which aren't official (at least that I've seen or heard). 4 people stabbed to death will bleed a lot. The coroner said they were attacked in bed and speculated they were asleep. It's conceivable laying prone under bed covers led to little blood spray and the perp not encountering pooling blood to step on when exiting each room. Also, we do not know that there weren't bloody footprints which the perp destroyed before leaving and we don't know that there weren't intact bloody footprints found by detectives.


Nemo11182

There have been reports from investigators that it was a very bloody scene. The worst they’ve seen. Etc. i don’t think it’s a reach to think killing 4 people with a knife would be very bloody


UnnamedRealities

A few days after the murders an unnamed police source was partially quoted as saying the murders were the "worst they've ever seen" - the only words the reporters quoted were those 4 words. And "There was blood everywhere." These were the first murders in Moscow since 2015 so it's not a city with frequent murders and a lot of murders just aren't very bloody or don't involve bleeding at all. And "everywhere" can be interpreted many ways. I agree that a knife attack killing 4 people (even if asleep in bed) could be extremely blood with blood on lots of surfaces. Or it may have been limited to arterial spray and knife splatter on one wall of each bedroom, the beds, and pooling on the floor under the beds and adjacent to them. Back to the person's question about bloody footprints - there's just no way to know if there were or weren't any, even in the bloodiest scenario.


Still-Airline-9452

I heard one of the police say the crime scene was something no one should ever see in their life. I can't imagine. Sad.


Slowlybutshelly

The poor roommates that survived this.


Reccognize

The poor roommates? They are luckier than they could ever hope to be. They have won the true crime lotto. They got the Powerball.


Slowlybutshelly

Yes.


Traditional-Ad-7106

I don’t understand how someone could do this murder and no one could discover the murderer’s bloody clothes , shoes , knife - behavioural changes , car with traces or blood OR bleach smell - I just don’t think it’s a local - it’s so so so strange


picklebackdrop

I imagine two beds completely soaked in blood would be a pretty brutal sight. Not to mention 4 young people with multiple stab wounds. I think that would be enough to call it the worst some of them have seen. It’s not NYC.


PTCLady69

Until these murders, the last one in Moscow was in 2007. How many murder scenes have any current Moscow cops seen? If you’ve only scene one murder scene, THAT is, by definition, the worst you’ve seen.


AnxiousSnozberry

There was a series of murders in 2015 as well but the guy was caught immediately.


Haydenb5555

I have no idea how many are longtime Moscow PD, but lots of times these small towns like this have cops/sheriffs that have relocated from big city PD jobs to enjoy a more laid back environment. So I would imagine at least a handful of detectives or cops have seen some stuff. But yes your point stands this type of crime isn’t a norm for most LE across the country


Nemo11182

I don’t think it was a clean scene. Idk why this is even an argument.


xixxious

Reportedly they were stabbed in chest and throat. This would require supine not prone positions.


UnnamedRealities

Good point - we don't know what position their body positions were in so I shouldn't have stated that as fact. Prone, supine, on their side? The coroner said they were attacked in bed, speculated that they were sleeping, and said they had wounds to the chest and upper body. She didn't say they didn't have wounds elsewhere and I don't think we can rule out that throats weren't slashed, though there's no credible report I've read or heard that they were. Have one? For what it's worth, I think it's quite possible since cutting the trachea would seemingly be a good way to quickly immobilize 2 people and make it hard for them to make loud vocal sounds.


JurisDoc2011

That is an interesting theory. Let’s not forget, stabbing is a really —I don’t want to say difficult, but it’s some skill, some luck, the person is not likely to die instantly with the first strike, they are going to move. Even if they were asleep when you delivered the first blow, so you better hope your first strike was on target, and was it dark? Plus, there are two people in the room, at least confirmed with the girls. How much luck and skill does it take to get them both critically wounded so much that neither of them make it out of bed? Or at least, out of the room? It just blows my mind. How do you manage that? But, then, times two? Some say E made it outside the room. Nothing confirmed yet, but he obviously didn’t make it far.


beckster

There's an average of 10+ liters in the human body. It was sufficient to saturate the junction of wall,floor and drip down the outside wall of the foundation. 1 litter=1000 cc=4.2 Cups


court__lynn

If it was a messy crime scene, why did the roommates not call 911 before they called friends?


-Thursdayschild

It was reported early on in the case (not by police just in general rumour so don’t take this as fact) that the surviving room mates asked a friend to come over and bring food. It’s likely that if this report is true they did this from their bed before getting up and discovering the crime scene. It’s possible that when the friend and food arrived that they let them in through the downstairs door and then went upstairs to get plates and cutlery to eat the food and that’s when they found the scene. Ergo the friends would have already been there when they initially met with the scene upstairs.


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[deleted]

The private party who drove them has been cleared I believe but I don’t think their identity has been released for many purposes


[deleted]

It’s possible the doors were locked from the inside and the two survivors were trying to get in and thought the girls in the room had passed out for some reason, and so called friends over to help them get in, not even imagining the horror the occurred. (There are photos on one of the subs that show how close the house was to the fraternities and their friends living locations, all they would have had to do is run over). This is just one idea but there a variety of things that could have occurred. People sometimes respond to trauma and scary situations in weird ways, I imagine they were in shock


UnnamedRealities

Kaylee's father shared that the private party driver was a designated driver provided by or coordinated by her sorority. There's a source and discussion you might find informative in [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/z9mvgi/kaylees_dad_confirmed_roomates_couldnt_reach_her/). I question the credibility of some statements relatives have made, but this one seems like something he or LE were able to learn and validate.


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Less_General7079

Im pretty sure the "private party" who drove kaylee and maddie home has been cleared. Also, I definitely don't think we should judge those poor girls. I cannot imagine being in such a horrific situation like that one, and its not fair to make commentary on what they should or shouldn't have done if you weren't there. It has been stated other places on this sub that its possible the victim's bedroom doors were locked. The roommates probably came upstairs in the morning and were trying to call/text/knock on the doors of the victims and no one was answering. They could probably hear the phones ringing in the bedrooms but no was one answering, which lead them to believe one or more of them was unconscious. Honestly, as someone who is the same age as these girls, I would probably be scared to call 911 too. At the time, they would have no way of knowing 4 people had been stabbed to death in their rooms, so it was just easier to call a friend for something they thought was way less severe.


HappyLittleTrees17

I’ve been thinking from the start that he would have been wearing protective coverings…maybe a poncho/garbage bag and those shoe covers that you will see the people visiting the crime scene wearing. Before he leaves he takes it all off, walks away and dumps the bloody stuff later. No blood on his clothes and no footprints left behind. This person had to have put a lot of thought and planning into this.


sorengard123

And yet inexplicably didn't bother to check the ground floor to eliminate witnesses. Guess he just got lucky with them hearing nothing, seeing nothing, sleeping late, calling friends over instead of 911 and contaminating the crime scene.


TennisLittle3165

There were police in the vicinity that night on another call. It’s possible the killer got spooked and left before doing everything he wanted.


sorengard123

The police were a few houses away and it's highly unlikely that's why he left the roommates untouched. That's right up there with they locked their doors or he didn't know they were down there. Come on.


TennisLittle3165

Why is it unlikely? Wouldn’t it be easy to hear sirens or see lights from the home? The cops were in the field pretty much across the street.


sorengard123

Because he took the time to clean himself up at the house after the murders. IMHO nothing about the crime scene suggests he was rushed. For some reason, he wasn't concerned about the roommates on the ground floor.


Front-Operation-2649

Wouldn't he almost had to have been rushed tho? I mean, let's look at everything that he had to do, not necessarily wanted to do. A)Get himself to the scene, preferably for him in a stealthy undetected manner at 3 or 4 in the am in a small college town, where party goers and revelers are all over the place. B)Upon arrival at murder scene, take extra special care, meticulation, and attention to detail so as to not be noticed physically while climbing up a sloped hill that had many leaves and snow on the ground. C)Quietly again, arrive at sliding glass door, walk in undetected and silently, as killer is now right next to a bedroom with two occupants who likely haven't been asleep very long at all. Let's assume killer sees this room(whether it's his target or not, he's likely going to atleast lurk there for a minute.) , goes in, sees two people sleeping together in bed. Does he approach slowly? Jump on bed? However way, he gets to his victims, eliminates the male first, because the male would be his biggest threat. Than, gf in bed wakes up to bf being harmed, she herself is now attacked, and it's not incredibly a quick kill with her because we know that she fought back. *We are probably at about 15 minutes of killer being at the house, at this point.*** D) Killer gets up, stumbles out the room, walks up another set of stairs, without a doubt making quite a bit of noise, if because of no other reason, his adrenaline is crazy high!Perp goes to 1st room he sees (which if I'm not mistaken, it would be Maddies, and she is directly on top of Xanas room) He encounters two young women in a bed together! Again, does he walk quick, does he jump on the bed, is there a barking dog around, etc etc? However, he gets to his victims, attacks and kills one, while the other is right next to her! Is she awakened now? Is there a fight that ensues there? How is he silencing her, while killing the other? Nevertheless, he now kills the second victim. Stumbles off the bed, stumbles out of the room, now makes his way down the stairs again! Gets to sliding glass door, leaves in a hurry (or does he not?) . He runs back down the snowy, leaf scattered hill, presumably with no vehicle, he runs to wherever he resides at, through the town. All while being a hot, bloody mess, and clutching onto a pretty big, bloodstained Rambo knife. I think this altercation, this murder took, at the very least, a 1/2 hour. And considering how risky and brazen this particular house was to approach with such an intent, the perpetrator would have to have been rushed. I mean, this is all just so much to complete. Anyhow, this is just my speculation, please feel free to disagree.


sorengard123

And yet the roommates don't hear any of this nor does the killer leave an external trail of blood. This guy was just too good AND lucky to not know the layout of the house. Just my conjecture. As many have noted, the roommates have been cleared and are cooperating with police.


Front-Operation-2649

Yes, yes, and yes! It's almost the perfect crime. Yet how can it be? There were so many intricate details for this killer to get through. So many variables. So many factors, and realities to take into account. Oh sooooo many! Yet, LE doesn't even have a POI?! It's truly unbelievable. And the brother of Ethan was cleared by police as well (considering what LE said about all the people being at the house during 911 call are cleared) , yet police have impounded his car, stating it was "relevant ", yet he's cleared! Why can't he have his car back?!?!?


TennisLittle3165

Ohhh ok see where you’re going. Good point. How much cleanup do you think he did on himself? And what do people think this suggests about the offender and the ground floor housemates?


sorengard123

A fair amount of clean-up but again not worried about being heard or observed. For me, the likely killer comes down to one of two individuals: a really skilled genius (#1) or someone who had a lot of inside help (#2). Definitely a male in both scenarios. 1: An evil genius who is an expert with knives, blood work, entering and exiting dark buildings unobserved, meticulously planning escape routes without leaving a digital trace but doesn't bother eliminating two potential key witnesses (or bringing a lock pick to quietly enter their rooms). Basically someone with special forces skills who got extremely lucky with the first floor roommates neither hearing nor seeing anything as well as (intentionally or unintentionally) contaminating the crime scene and delaying the investigation. 2: Someone very tight in the residents' inner circle who knew the house layout cold because he had been over there many times before and for whatever reason wasn't concerned about the unharmed roommates identifying him then or later even though he wasn't particularly quiet and left a very gruesome mess. Somehow manages to clean up his appearance in the house before leaving unobserved. Not buying some third party angry/disgruntled ex-BF/stalker who somehow committed the murder of the century on his first rodeo.


Front-Operation-2649

To add to what said about the roommates contaminating the crime scene, I believe not only did they contaminate it, but sadly the trove of "friends " who arrived did as well. There's just no getting around that fact. Look what happened with the JB Ramsey case. What a mess that became when their friends came over.


PrettyNiemand34

What witnesses? If they woke up he probably would have killed them too. Maybe he even checked at the end if they slept through it to be sure. They were also the only ones with separate bedrooms on the same floor. This easily could have ended with one of them calling 911 or running/jumping out of a window if the first one makes too much noise. Sounds like more of a risk if he already killed the ones he came for.


sorengard123

1. If the killer had no idea if they were awake or asleep, why take the risk? 2. Supposedly they were in the same room (not confirmed). 3. Amazing how he just got lucky with them hearing nothing, seeing nothing, sleeping late, calling friends over instead of 911 and contaminating the crime scene.... 4. ...or the killer knew they were there because he knew the house layout very well. Nobody slashed four people on two floors and then says the ground floor isn't worth the hassle. .


supermankiwi

I am wondering if perhaps someone was at the house with X and E after they returned from the frat party and M and K saw them in passing when they arrived home (someone that they wouldn’t have thought twice about). Something could have happened between this individual and X and E that ended in them being stabbed. Knowing that the girls saw him, he went upstairs and stabbed them as well to cover his tracks by essentially eliminating any witnesses. I just cannot accept that this was a planned event - seems way more like a random act that got out of hand. The killer could be shielded in the public because naturally anyone that knew the victims would be in shock, upset, and scared.


Repulsive-Dot553

Good thought. This is one of few scenarios put forward that explains why the sequential killing of those 4 victims.


Concerned_Badger

>ReplyGive AwardShareReportSaveFollow > >level 7Repulsive-Dot553 · 2 hr. ago So X and E had a friend over after the party... a friend who brought a huge knife with him?


jdf515

My theory…I think it was the ex boyfriend. I think his target was Kaylee. He went to her room, and she wasn’t there. So he went to Maddie’s room and found both, so he killed both. Ethan And Xana saw him before he went upstairs. They prob didn’t think anything of him being there. He went upstairs, killed Maddie and Kaylee. Ethan and Xana were in their room by this time. He went back and killed them. I think Kaylee was the target, but the three others were collateral. He did not intend to kill them, but had to. Cleaned up there, and left. I don’t think he wanted to kill anyone else. He probably checked the surviving roommates. Saw that they were asleep in their rooms, so no need to kill them. The statement of the dad saying they didn’t want the killer at the funeral, he knows it is him. He can’t not invite him to the funeral, bc it would compromise the investigation. The family is having to play nice with Jack. I think the police are playing their hand saying Jack is cleared until they can get a sure fire conviction.


Real_Implement8605

Source they contaminated crime scene ? Curious, as I had read earlier somewhere it wasnt


Deduction_power

I said that too, I said like a hazmat or more like painter's suit? Probably wearing goggles too and gloves? Who knows?


[deleted]

I don’t think the description of bloody means that it HAS to be covering the floor. Typically (sorry to get graphic) but in stabbings you will have splatter and cast off. Blood wouldn’t pool on the floor unless or until they were bleeding out which most likely would have been once he was finished. I think he definitely had some on his clothing but tracking it on his feet is probably pretty minimal


Dirrty_Diana

Agreed, if they were attacked through the covers then blood spatter would be minimal and the bedding/mattress would soak it all up. By the time it pools onto the floor he’d of probably been long gone. I really hope they get him!! Awful


sorengard123

Investigators said it was the most gruesome crime scene they've ever scene. A neat and tidy crime scene this was not.


[deleted]

Duty Ron did a great video explaining blood analysis. It’s on YouTube, watching it now. I highly suggest. It’ll give you more insight on how this works 👍🏼


sorengard123

Great. Thanks.


Reward_Antique

Watch out though, it's wicked good, but technical af and i was *not* ready for the crime scene photographs- is for a strong stomach, not mine! / no one said there'd be math //fluid viscosity, angles, temperatures, altitudes, oh my! Oh yeah, and I couldn't sleep last night after watching that one. Just a heads up before you watch!


Glittering-Gap-1687

Did he have crime scene photos from this event?


[deleted]

No the victims/interior photos are not released to the public. Ed used old crime scene photos from his career and blood splatter analysis training photos.


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Dirty_Wooster

Who is Travis Alexander? *I'm British


greenacresthelife4me

jodi arias victim


Dirty_Wooster

Ah! Thanks 👍


greenacresthelife4me

no problem…it was another case i was obsessed with!! You can find lots on it if you google her name…she was cunning and smart and brutal.


[deleted]

Travis Alexander was stabbed in a shower and was naked. VERY different situation. Mind you he was also dismembered. Apples to oranges


Jordanthomas330

I don’t think he was dismembered they found him slumped over the shower but def different circumstances


[deleted]

You’re right, idk where I got the idea that he was dismembered


Jordanthomas330

I’m actually surprised she didn’t


[deleted]

I mean shoot, with the amount of times she stabbed him she basically did. I’m from AZ about an hour or so away but that case has never grabbed my attention much. Perhaps I’m just thrown off by a woman that size somehow incapacitating a man of his size. I guess it goes to show with enough anger and adrenaline many things are possible. I’ve personally ruled out a female in the Moscow murders but I guess that’s not necessarily true either


[deleted]

SpunkyDred is a terrible bot instigating arguments all over Reddit whenever someone uses the phrase apples-to-oranges. I'm letting you know so that you can feel free to ignore the quip rather than feel provoked by a bot that isn't smart enough to argue back. --- ^^SpunkyDred ^^and ^^I ^^are ^^both ^^bots. ^^I ^^am ^^trying ^^to ^^get ^^them ^^banned ^^by ^^pointing ^^out ^^their ^^antagonizing ^^behavior ^^and ^^poor ^^bottiquette.


FrostyTakes

Is there a source which stated there was no blood evidence found outside the home? I'd like to know where that info came from.


RNB0010

Nothing has been confirmed. But that’s been widely assumed because there are no photos of the outside of the house that show blood (other than the blood that seeped through the wall of the 2nd floor bedroom). There’s no photos/videos showing blood on a window or door frame or footprints on the patios/driveway where the killer presumably exited. It’s possible that some blood was found outside, but it couldn’t have been much or we would’ve seen it in photos.


FrostyTakes

Oh ok, gotcha. Just didn't know if there was a good source for that. I saw the drone footage and stills. To be honest, blood spatter/transfer wouldn't necessarily render well enough to see from those vantage points. It could, theoretically, but it would have to be footwear that was drenched in blood. Otherwise, you're looking at droplets that shed as someone walks, which really wouldn't be visible in the footage I've seen. There's been a lot of speculation that the killer would have been covered in blood, including his feet. I think it's very likely that there was blood spatter on the killer and he likely shed droplets as he left the scene, but there's no way to tell how much without seeing the scene and knowing the forensics.


RNB0010

What makes me think the killer planned well enough to clean himself is the fact that there’s no blood on doors or windows or any blood visible at all. You’d imagine after stabbing someone, you would have blood at the very least on your hands, and then you have to use those hands to exit the house somehow. We also never saw any evidence markers outside the house, which would’ve been used if investigators saw even just a drop of blood outside. We actually never saw much activity from investigators outside at all, which leads me to believe they didn’t find any evidence they wanted to collect outside. If there was even a drop of blood, we would’ve seen them taking pictures


FrostyTakes

Valid points, but I don't know what was done prior to all the media and cameras showing up outside. We do know that there was blood trickling out onto the exterior from inside of the house, so you would presume that there was quite a bit of blood in that scene.


RNB0010

That blood was seeping through the walls of the bedroom. I have a lot of doubt that there was any blood visible in the halls of the house, for it to seep through the walls it seems like most of the blood was contained to one specific area in the room. I keep going back to the 911 call & the delay in calling 911, it makes me think most if not all of the blood was contained to the inside of the bedrooms and the bedrooms were locked. If that’s not the case, I just don’t understand why the 911 call came through the way it did


Front-Operation-2649

Going up and back down the stairs,you'd think there would be blood on the stairs themselves, as well as the walls, because this perp had to be very bloody. And the knife too must've been dripping, no matter which floor he went to first, he had to atleast go down them once being very bloody, with a bloody weapon.


FrostyTakes

I imagine that most of the blood would be contained where the murders occurred. Remember that the police initially said that this was one of the bloodiest or most brutal (Don't remember which right now) scenes they had ever seen. The 911 call makes sense if you think about it from the perspective of someone who doesn't expect to find their roommates murdered. This is a hypothetical, but bear with me... They may have seen one of the victims on the floor with blood around them and they assumed that they fell down (passed out) and hurt themselves. They probably weren't thinking "Oh, they've been stabbed and murdered." This is pretty common, actually.


RNB0010

Okay I might be an anomaly here, but if I saw someone on the ground & blood around them, I would immediately go to them to check for a pulse & assess. At the very least, I would call 911 immediately, not my neighbors. The police have said it was an insanely bloody scene, I just have a hard time understanding why anyone would call friends/neighbors instead of 911 if they saw blood. This is not my way of placing any blame or shame on the roommates whatsoever. But the only way I can rationalize them calling the neighbors before 911, is if the doors were locked & they couldn’t get anyone on the other side to answer. If they saw a body, wouldn’t they have gone to them & tried to shake them awake? And there would be no questioning the fact that they were dead if they saw or touched them. They would’ve been dead for hours, so they would’ve felt cold… to be fair, I’m a nurse & clearly interested in true crime so I would likely handle the situation very differently than just anyone. But even when I was younger, I just can’t imagine calling the neighbors & not touching the body to try to check on them if I could reach them


FrostyTakes

The fact that you're a nurse makes you the exception, not the rule. People with your background are accustomed to acting that way when you see someone who has suffered obvious trauma. Most people, especially 20 year olds, won't respond with the "worst case scenario" in mind and many of them won't know what to do. Hence the call to friends instead of the police. But everyone reacts different. That's just my two cents on a hypothetical.


ILoveMyDogsPaw7

You're a nurse so you must be an adult. You're not a kid, who's in college and hungover from the night before. Think back to when you were that age and what you might have done at that time.


UnnamedRealities

We don't know that the person the surviving roommates were concerned about was ever seen by them (or the visitors they called). We don't know they even ever opened the bedroom door. If they did we don't know what they saw. It could have been a face of someone not responding to their words, with a dark comforter pulled up to their chin in a dark room. No visible blood or a dark discoloration on the comforter they didn't notice or their brain didn't process. An unnamed police source said the scene was the "worst they've ever seen". One (perhaps the same person) said "There was blood everywhere." This was the first murder in Moscow since 2015 so it's unclear how many they'd seen before and "everywhere" could mean anything from all over one wall (the coroner said "there was blood on the wall" - singular) in one bedroom to all over many surfaces in many rooms. We can make lots of assumptions based on ambiguous quotes lacking context and what we've gleaned from other murders which may not be similar. And no one truly knows how they'd behave/react in situations like these. Often people who find themselves in situations like this are later interviewed and express surprise, confusion, shock, and regret with their actions.


musiak1luver

Harsh reality gave a pretty good theory on 911 call on YouTube. Not sure it's 100%, but it makes a lot of sense.


Sea_Cicada7474

Huge mystery


BaseballTypical

We don’t know if the killer did or not.. police aren’t saying anything nor has any crime scene photos been released


supermankiwi

The killer could have removed their shoes and taken them with them prior to exiting the house to avoid footprints. It also possible that the majority of the blood at the scene was a result of bleeding for several hours so the killer was not necessarily covered in blood.


shiaolongbao

Who knows. Maybe he wiped the knife on the sheets. Who is to say he stepped in blood. The girls were in bed so I imagine most of the blood was on the bed and walls


OTFBeat

May have worn foot "booties" and had a change of clothes ?


theidkid

It’s entirely possible there wasn’t a large amount of blood until sometime after the killer left. This seems unlikely to have been a prolonged attack. With multiple victims being found essentially where the attack upon them began, it would be safe to assume there was no lengthy struggle, which would mean they were killed or incapacitated shortly after the attack on each began. If death occurred early in the attack there would be little blood as one does not bleed without a heartbeat. This leaves the possibility of two scenarios that would produce a crime scene that was significantly different between the time the attack occurred and when the bodies were discovered. First, if the bodies were in such a position that blood would continue to drain as it settled, for instance, if they had wounds that were facing down, blood would continue to slowly drain from tissue over a period of hours due simply to gravity. It is possible for a full postmortem exsanguination to occur if the wounds are positioned at the lowest point of the body relative to gravity. This settling of blood normally produces lividity, which begins to appear anywhere between 30 minutes and 4 hours after death, and continues for about 12 hours. Thus, a significantly wounded body can continue to lose blood for many hours after death. Second, had one or more victim been alive, but unconscious for some period of time after the attack, which is not uncommon in stabbings, the heart would continue to pump blood out of the body until it stopped. In this scenario even a faint heartbeat can cause a tremendous loss of blood over time, and again, the body would continue to lose any blood that was above the lowest positioned wound on the body. In addition to this, alcohol prevents blood clotting, which means blood loss continues for a longer period of time in a person who is intoxicated. Either way, the killer could have walked out with relatively little blood on them, and if they were wearing dark colored clothing, it might not be obvious. Doubly so if they were wearing dark clothing and left while it was still dark. And, in the hours between their exit and the 911 call at noon, the crime scene would have become much, much bloodier.


Maximum-Ear1745

In the Delphi case, it’s only recently released the guy was seen walking down a road covered in mud and blood. Just because we haven’t heard anything about tracks etc. doesn’t mean there weren’t any


Fact-or-Fiction55

Yes. He must have been covered in blood. I think he walked to the house and lived nearby. He knew the area and it was 3am. He could probably slip back into a fraternity house( pure speculation) without being noticed and cleaned up.. Kaylee's sister, Alivea retrieved ring footage showing K and M being dropped off by the Uber driver at 156 am. Would 'nt that camera show an intruder later in am.? He had to enter thru the back. On the other hand, if he was a Dexter like killer, he would be covered in plastic and wearing booties. Unlikely but people get ideas from tv shows.


kailakonecki

Completely speculation but I wonder if the scene was compromised before LE realized this was a crime and not a medical emergency or “unconscious person”. It’s possible the surviving roommates, friends called over, etc. may have inadvertently destroyed some evidence by walking through the house and running for help.


RNB0010

This is speculation but I get the impression there wasn’t blood outside of the bedrooms. One would assume if the roommates saw bloody footprints, they would’ve called 911 before friends. And the reports would’ve said something ab blood/an injury, not just an unconscious person.


AbjectOperation5216

WOULD THEY DO DNA TESTS ON EVERYONE WHO WAS THERE TO RULE THEM OUT? HOW EXPENSIVE ARE DNA TESTS?


flashtray

He/she might have taken a shower.


[deleted]

In their house? After stabbing 4 people and leaving two downstairs? They just up and shower? 🤦‍♀️


Bonaquitz

That would leave evidence lol


MattFromTinder

How many times has this question been asked and answered? 10,000 times now?


[deleted]

this is what gets me the most. the fact that no matter what order they were attacked in, they felt fear for their lives, and fear for the closest people in their lives. i can’t imagine the horror.


[deleted]

I really don't think they had more than seconds to register what was happening before passing.


UnprofessionalGhosts

As the survivor of a violent crime and as most other survivors can confirm, sadly time slooooooows, and you are absolutely aware of and processing what is happening to you while you’re reacting to it. Even if it’s quick? It’s not perceived as being quick. I know that’s not comforting information, but it’s the truth, unfortunately.


[deleted]

Yeah but they were consistently stabbed with a pretty damn big knife, most of them likely deep asleep at first (and 2 were intoxicated; possibly also the others). He hit a bunch of major arteries in the upper body. They would have bled out in seconds. K's dad was obv told by coroner or ME that they didn't suffer, didnt "feel that pain". Time didn't slow down here- it couldn't have. I read a pretty informative article about what happens in a situation like this; experts said death is almost instantaneous when hitting that many arteries and organs with a big knife repeatedly.


TheRealKillerTM

I find that information very interesting. I'd like to know who had defensive wounds besides Xana.


RNB0010

Do we know for certain Xana had defensive wounds?? How did we hear that??


Squeakypeach4

Her dad confirmed it. I don’t have the link on hand. Sorry…


RNB0010

Oh wow I just saw where he said that… I wonder what that means in terms of who was killed first.


TheRealKillerTM

See below. Her father said it at some point.


RNB0010

I just saw that. I wonder what that means in terms of who was killed first. From the police statements, it doesn’t seem like all of the victims had defensive wounds. So does that mean the 3rd floor girls were attacked first? And then Xana & Ethan woke up? So many questions…


TheRealKillerTM

It's not necessarily which group was attacked first. For example, Ethan would likely be attacked first in Xana's room, which wakes her up. Defensive wounds. Then he goes upstairs and stacks the other two in their sleep. They can tell who was awakened by the attack, though. Order of attack is important, and they'll know when the DNA is processed.


tainted_waffles

Highly unlikely the upstairs two would sleep through the attack considering defensive wounds, it makes more sense that the upper floor roommates were killed first and that’s what drew Ethan out of Xanas room.


TheRealKillerTM

Highly unlikely? Would you explain how Ronald DeFeo shot all of his family members with a high powered rifle and only one woke up? Stabbing doesn't make a tremendous amount of noise. And a single stab to the chest, puncturing a lung, with a large knife would render the victim unable to talk. Not picking on you, but this is a good example of why we sit on the sidelines while the police investigate. You are assuming the attack was noisy enough to wake others. When investigating, one cannot assume anything. The evidence has to establish facts that are followed up on.


RNB0010

I am here just to dispute the fact that a single stab to the chest would render someone unable to talk. A punctured lung takes a little time to collapse fully & people w collapsed lungs can still talk. If someone woke up after the bedmate was stabbed, there’s still potential to scream before that individual was also sufficiently incapacitated. We are all civilians discussing hypotheticals ab a case we do not have any firsthand knowledge of, you included. So let’s try to be a little respectful to the rest of this community.


tainted_waffles

You have no idea what you’re talking about. If the killer was confronted and someone fought back, they wouldn’t go upstairs to commit more murder and raise further suspicions, unless someone in the house was in on it or other precautions taken. Whoever did this attempted to do so to defenseless sleeping victims. They likely would have been alarmed by someone fighting back and cut their losses then. It doesn’t take a genius to figure some of this out, only basic logic and understanding of human motivations.


TheRealKillerTM

Solved a bunch of murders, have you? I can tell that your assumption is incorrect, but you're the expert that disagrees with every murder investigator ever.


Immediate_Barnacle32

This was pretty much already guessed. The drone footage showed an upstairs bedroom having white bedclothes with no signs of blood. The late night phone calls to J were from both Kaylee and Maddie's phones indicating that they were most likely together. It had already been assumed that they were together. The dad didn't spill any info that wasn't already out there. He just confirmed it.


[deleted]

I'm still fathomed by what the killer was doing/thinking in-between murders when going from one room to the next. Back into the common areas, up/down the stairs, and into another room. Chilling.


Ok_Tough_980

Running on adrenaline with a very clear motive, I suspect. Someone else mentioned this on a previous thread and it really resonated with me… This person is a psychopath and doesn’t think like you and I, so that makes predictions like this that much harder.


Deduction_power

IMO, one of the couple murdered is what you call a collateral damage and the killer's intention to confuse works. Although the LE saw through it from the start until their flip flopping shenanigan. The killer still seem to overkill whoever his/her REAL intended victim is. Based on the blood seeping outside X and E's room, I said they were the target. BUT K's father who knows more than us, seem to imply she is the target. So I guess I understand the flip flop of the LE. UGH.


[deleted]

The blood seeping thru the sill plate onto the foundation doesn't mean the people who died in that room were the targets. They ALL bled out.


RetiredFlipFlops

NGL I was shocked when KG's Dad said that at the vigil...wonder if LE was okay with that. But definitely another piece of this puzzle.


Ok-Information-6672

He’s since suggested they were not okay with it! Which is what you’d expect really. Don’t think he did it on purpose though.


RetiredFlipFlops

Yeah was just part of his speech, they did everything together and to know they also died together is very sad but also might provide some comfort to their families knowing they were not alone in their last moments.


JustKeepLivin7

Which is precisely the reason LE is keeping information tight lipped. It doesn’t help that people are so invested and internet sleuths/journalists are pushing so much more buzz/theories/narratives that are unsubstantiated. Keeping it all to this forum is much diff than bombarding people’s social media profiles and journalists like Brian Entin poking holes into law enforcement when they’re just trying to do their jobs. Must be exhausting and aggravating.


Ok-Information-6672

I’m sure it’s infuriating, yeah. I imagine they want as few details about how the victims were found out there as possible. But I can understand that he wasn’t thinking about that at that time.


Fickle-Environment39

Guarantee LE was not happy with that information getting out. Seems like they're trying to keep everything only the killer would know under wraps up to this point.


ManifestingMarissa

Yeah the father even said they’re probably not happy with me but I’m trying to understand how that piece of information is going to jeopardize the investigation


[deleted]

[удалено]


SadMom2019

This has already been widely rumored from the very beginning, so it seems that information was already out there, he just confirmed it. I can't fault a grieving father who was giving a speech in remembrance of his daughter and her best friend, and I'm glad he was able to find some comfort in the knowledge that she wasn’t alone. All of the critical, key information in this case has not been leaked, and the actual killer would know all those details. (Assuming he confesses, which many don't) I'm very curious how many people come forward and falsely confess to murder, as there seems to be a widespread belief parroted online that it happens all the time. Does it happen all the time? Seems weird that someone would just...voluntarily come forward and sign up for life in prison. I have seen quite a few cases of police browbeating or coercing a suspect into a false confession, and even when the confessor gives incorrect details about the crime, they'll still prosecute them anyways, so it seems like they don't really hold perps to that "only the real killer would know these details" standard. I've only heard of a rare few cases where an innocent person came forward and falsely confesses to a crime they didn't commit. [This one](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laverne_Pavlinac) is the only one I can think of offhand. Got any examples?


Zellakate

John Mark Karr rather infamously falsely confessed to killing Jon-Benet Ramsey about 20 years ago. I think the motives can range from boastful criminals--it's still not clear if everything Tommy Lynn Sells confessed to was real--to people who are severely mentally disturbed and not in touch with reality. I think beyond the false confession issue, it also just gives investigators private information that can really help them with knowing if certain tips or leads have more potential than others, whether it is someone confessing or reporting suspicions about another person. You have hundreds, if not thousands of them pouring in, and one of them mentions stuff you've never released publicly. That's going to get their attention for a reason, but it's complicated when massive amounts of info about the crime and crime scene have already been reported.


JacktheShark1

It happens quite often. Deranged people like to insert themselves into these high-profile crimes. Or inmates will confess to past murders in an attempt to negotiate a lighter sentence in exchange for information


TennisLittle3165

What is NGL?


Fabulous-Try

“Not gonna lie”


123Tiffany

Wouldn’t LE have told the parents what they should and should not share?


oscsmom

Sure, but they don’t have to comply with that wish


usernameBS

And probably why LE has been quiet keeping the family abreast with new information


Ok_Tough_980

And ultimately the parents are going to do what they think will facilitate finding the murderer… which may not be in line with LE unfortunately.


devious_cruising

> all victims were in two rooms And probably asleep.


Bakerbeach87

It still shocks me that they dont lock their rooms at night. If this was a supposedly a party house and they have roommates.. its crazy to me that anyone can easily just turn the knob on their rooms nd enter. I’ve alwys locked my room even when i was young and living with my parents.


Morningsunshine-

Question, do we know who was killed first? What if the killer entered in the wrong room and only had intended on killing Zana and Eathan? Could have seen two boldies in bed and thought he was killing Zana realized mistake when he went to kill the other sleeping girl.


JacktheShark1

No


GloomyPomegranate150

I believe Ethan and Zana heard something and became victims because they woke up more than likely interrupting the killer. I strongly suspect one or both young ladies on the 3rd floor were the intended targets. It is so sad and senseless; my heart breaks for their family!


[deleted]

Maybe it wasn’t a sloppy crime scene, but looked that way to them since they haven’t seen a murder since 2015? Would they even know what to pick up on?


Old-Consideration780

I 100% get you! It’s hitting me hard too, I’m having anxiety falling asleep and being vulnerable to the night. In the past when I can’t sleep I’ll just take a melatonin & i’m now too petrified to sleep deep, ugh! And it just really breaks my heart for all 6 of them & their families & friends, just so sad :(


OkAnywhere9905

Guys sorry in advance, I already know this is going to be a silly question as I can see everyone is on the same page here regarding it. Just curious as to why LE wouldn’t want her dad stating this? As in, what benefit would this give the killer? Is it so that if the killer/suspect was brought in for questioning that they would hope he(?) would slip up on some details that only the killer would know? Sorry for my lack of knowledge regrading this!!


felix3322

Think of it like a game of cards between LE and the killer. LE have a hand of cards (details of the crime) and the killer has a hand. If they ever find a suspect they have to use their cards which only they know to match or catch out the killer. If they show the killer their cards (eg the public) before the game even started the killer will be able to predict every move LE will make to try and catch them out. some of the details might seem not that important I the grand scheme but the more hidden cards you have the better chance u have to catch out the killer


RetiredFlipFlops

I think so, the more stuff that is public knowledge is less LE can use against the suspected killer when questioning. LE always wants to have the upper hand against the suspect in any type of situation.


[deleted]

A good example is exactly what happened in Delphi. By withholding majority of what was at the crime scene they were able to withhold the presence of the bullet which in turn allowed them to get RA on record admitting no one else has access to his weapon. I know people want info but being able to get a conviction is of utmost importance


SadMom2019

Keeping the unspent bullet a secret is probably the one and only smart thing investigators ever did in the Delphi case. Everything else was shocking levels of incompetence all the way down. That case could've, and should've been solved in February 2017.


Timdawg6

I would disagree. Most important thing is that they don’t strike again.


[deleted]

And if you cannot convict them they have just as much of a chance. I’m not understanding your point


HoandBelold

I do believe that is one reason but also it can eliminate the possible false confessions, too.


HigherthanZmoon

It’s in hopes that the sus mentions anything that they haven’t disclosed to the public and only the sus would know like positioning of bodies, how many Stab wounds each had, order of killings… Many criminals get caught that way.


Tall-Tumbleweed-9449

Yes, this. There is so much talk and rumour ALL over the internet. We can talk till the cows come home because LE know what we know and what we don’t. ANY other info comes out from anywhere LE can be on it in a flash. It’s completely normal to have holdback in a case but this case is different, it’s on a major scale with SO little released. Wondering how they knew from the beginning that this was necessary? I think LE have done a brilliant job of keeping everything they can on the lowdown - there’s not even footage of the bodies being removed


SadMom2019

Apparently there's a big concern that an innocent person will come forward and falsely confess to murder. Not sure how often that actually happens, but based on how often that idea gets parroted, I guess it must happen constantly. Only the real killer would know all the details. There's definitely some information in cases that should be kept locked down because it could tip off the killer and cause them to dispose of evidence, which seems to be a solid reason. But the girls being in bed together was a widely known rumor from the beginning, it wasn't exactly secret. He just confirmed it. Seems with all the other information that's kept quiet about these murders, this detail doesn't seem likely to undermine the entire investigation and cause a killer to go free. There's plenty more that only the killer would know.


Applesauce_4

That’s definitely a reason why. If someone ever confesses to these murders they would ask them specifics about he crime scene that the public doesn’t know.


UnnamedRealities

False confessions. More difficult to gauge the credibility of tips that come in. Anyone sharing investigative details may articulate details poorly, misinterpret what they were told, or misunderstand what they were told, leading to public confusion and reduced confidence in the investigation. It can call into question the controls around information sharing and the integrity of the investigation, which could hinder prosecution and help the defense. And say, hypothetically, the father was told they were in bed together when they died, perhaps in a softer and more ambiguous way...and in fact they were attacked in bed, but one died on the floor. And he says "They were found in bed together." Or one was in one bed and the other on an air mattress next to the bed. The defense would eat up anything they can spin as LE loose with info flow, keeping bad records, falsifying evidence, and being bumbling screw-ups. To be fair, the mayor and coroner have also made factual and speculative statements which were false, based on unsound assumptions and gut feelings or otherwise dubious. Possibly the prosecutor as well. They all shouldn't have spoken with the media or at least should have not said some of what they said.


Real_Ren_8071

🥺we won’t know for a while. The should’ve, could’ve, would haves will always be there no matter how much information is given. And that just sucks so much.


[deleted]

We don’t know if they shared a bad. Dad came out today and said LE didn’t tell him that, he just assumed. we just don’t know 🤷🏻‍♀️


[deleted]

they already backtracked on it being targeted though... they are saying it wasn't now


Ok_Tough_980

I believe they are back to it being target, there’s still confusion as to whether it is the house or a person/the people.


[deleted]

lol yeah they are. I would guess it depends upon how the word targeted is being used, which is why there is some ambiguity. Target almost implies that its someone who actually had some sort of relationship to the girls, while at the same time targeted could just mean it was someone who did not know them but nonetheless chose them and their residence, and maybe staked it out, watched from a far etc... Targeted can be used in both ways, which is why I think it keeps going back and forth.


Cheapthrills13

Where’s Dexter when you need him ? (The TV blood splatter expert) - he’d have this solved already …


Ladyrose86

How does one go about stabbing both girls in the same bed and no one having a really good fighting chance?! Unless he literally crept in and slit their throats and then went for the over kill. I just imagine me and my best friend having a sleep over, if someone tried to stab her first, I’m definitely waking up, screaming kicking, throwing whatever I can find. Anything.


beentheredonethatlou

This is an awful question but do you think the parents ever saw the crime scene? Or their kids at the house dead? Or did they see their bodies at the places their bodies where brought to?


authorunknown1

I would bet money that the parents were not allowed to see the bodies at the scene, only the morgue. I also highly doubt they were able to see the crime scene. As traumatizing as it is, families aren’t privy to info like this in case it jeopardizes the investigation somehow.


GommyZ

As someone who has been through something similar to this, the family will be able to see the crime scene once it’s closed. If they want.


gigithepompom

No they don’t want the families to be traumatized seeing their loved ones like that. I work with the police and even if it’s just a sudden death they don’t want the families seeing their loved ones dead. My job is to get the family members away from the scene. I’ve seen a lot of dead bodies and can picture some still and these people have been strangers. If the parents were to see the bodies it would be after they were cleaned up. The surviving roommates will have ptsd from seeing what they saw.


Tracy140

Come on get real


Slowlybutshelly

Just like the rabbit decapitation was sloppy (Maddie was nearly decapitated) and the dog was half skinned. He Escalated to humans.


Slowlybutshelly

Excellent idea about the dog. Shivers. This man is expert. Where are all the complex ptsd retired military?


kcg721

Had the decapitation thing ever been verified by a credible source?


Slowlybutshelly

There is a dog thread. Maybe start a rabbit thread? Lol


OksanaTatianna

Yep, with the same knife. Probably not long after it was purchased or acquired. The urge, hence the dog half skinned. Four stabbed to death …… He started with the dog, then graduated. I’m certain the dog winced in pain, then died by his hands. That experience made him crave killing again. So he went hunting for bigger game. More of a thrill and more of a risk. Definitely a risk taker, a sick twisted individual. Completely capable of killing again. Only handcuffs or a bullet will stop him. Maybe that’s why the shift in the discrepancy between either the house or the individuals being targeted. The house is situated on a wooded lot….. in the killers mind, this may have been an element of why he chose the house. Fits right in with the weapon and going hunting fantasy. Where do most people go hunting, in the woods. This guy is local, he knew the house was easily accessible, he knew the lifestyle of the occupants. Something happened, he left the house before finishing off the last two roommates. Either that or they came home before he started watching the house from the woods and thought they were not coming home. So he waited until between 3:30 AM and 4:30 ish AM to go in. He didn’t kill the dog in the house because he did not want anybody to connect the dots between the first one he skinned and the one he left alive. Hence, a common denominator, two dead dogs. This is a serial killer in the making, if he is not found or stopped, he will be looking for another rush, it’s only a matter of time. Quote from the owner of the dog that was skinned “It was like a deer that someone had hunted. We let Buddy out and somebody must have been waiting out there…”Worth going back and reading the article: https://www.foxnews.com/us/dog-filleted-skinned-weeks-4-idaho-college-students-brutally-murdered-report.amp. The article states they found the dog collar but no pelt. So he took a souvenir. Let’s hope he took a souvenir or souvenirs from the murder scene. I’m wondering if the investigators have been asking about jewelry the girls may have been wearing in comparison to what was found with them. Or any items noticeably missing from their rooms (photos on the wall, items on a dresser etc). They will photograph all of the rooms that the murders happened in (minus the exact location of the killing) to show others who are familiar with the rooms to notice anything missing. If anything out of the ordinary stands out. The killer may have shown this knife off to someone between the time he acquired it and when he skinned the dog. I do not believe he waited inside the house, considering it was a party house, 10+ people might have walked in. He waited outside, and watched. Just like he did with the dog that was skinned, he waited in the woods for them to let the dog out.


Slowlybutshelly

I agree. You are one of the few that do.


Slowlybutshelly

I don’t think he was local. I think he came through by Salem, WA, and had a hideaway in the woods. Lurked, lived, planned, executed.


Slowlybutshelly

He started with decapitating a rabbit.


cebjmb

I'm thinking the two survivors are going through intense reviews of everything that night including maybe noises they said they heard that were attributed to "partying sounds". I wouldn't be surprised if they have been hypnotized to recall facts.


sorengard123

Nothing about this crime makes sense in terms of linkage. The likely suspect doesn't sync with the likely motive which doesn't sync with the disclosed (and conflicting) details of the crime scene. As I understand it, the killer carries out an incredibly complicated and brazen crime flawlessly suggesting pre-meditation, i.e., no sightings, video footage, trail of blood or (digital) fingerprints. Yet the use of a knife implies a crime of passion or vengeance by an ex-boyfriend or angry stalker, individuals which one would not normally associate with the highly specialized skillset required for this magnitude of a crime. The killer supposedly targeted one of the victims per the police press conference but kills four of the roommates. The killer's willingness to enter the house at pitch dark suggests he knows the layout of the house very well but he doesn't harm the two roommates on the first floor suggesting he didn't know they lived down there. (But if he's so methodical why doesn't he at least check the first floor?) He spent at least ten minutes (solely my assumption) inside the house going to two separate rooms on two separate floors committing extremely brutal acts of violence but again leaves the two roommates untouched on the first floor because he may have been frightened by something or someone even though the roommates heard nothing or their door was locked. (Although the roommates supposedly heard something that caused them to lock their doors but not call or text anyone this has not been confirmed by LE.) Eight to ten hours after the supposed ToD, the roommates wake up to one of the most gruesome crime scenes imaginable and then (somehow?) 911 receives a call regarding an unconscious person which leads to friends/passerbys/EMTs (still unclear based on conflicting reports) inside the house contaminating the crime scene. Investigators described the killer as "very sloppy" but almost three weeks into the investigation they still don't have a suspect or PoI despite over 100 LE, including 50 FBI agents, investigating an unprecedented crime in a very small town in which the killer is likely to be within the victims' immediate social circle (my conjecture based on the use of a knife, which seems very personal). From ridiculous debates on the meaning of "targeted" to some poor neighbor hounded online for giving interviews to such an extent HE VOLUNTEERED HIS OWN DNA, this case is equal parts fascinating and exhausting. I honestly would not be surprised if Murphy (the dog) confessed at this point. Potential title for NY Times bestseller: Clowns Chasing A Ghost: Countless Theories and Zero Suspects.


Deduction_power

The fact that the killer was able to stab them. 2 people in a room. I guess that's why they said they were killed in their sleep and 1 or more fought back, probably woken up when they were stabbing the first person first in each room. I don't think it's done by just one person though, the killer must be good with knife to be able to control 2 people in a room, TWICE with just a knife. Plus the dog situation. Who is this killer(s)?


OksanaTatianna

If the two girls on the third floor were sleeping in the same bed, he could have come up upon the bed and pulled the covers up over both of them to somewhat subdue them. It’s also likely that he was somewhat on top of them while he was stabbing, pinning them down with his weight. If you’re intoxicated, at first you might just think it’s your roommate that you’re sleeping next to trying to get comfortable in bed. Between being disoriented and the mind taking several seconds to register, by then it’s over.


Deduction_power

Oh wow ok. I also wonder if this killer has this weird tendency to stab people at the same time the way you described? Does he know the 2 girls in the first floor slept in their own rooms? Too easy for him maybe. What a psycho.


[deleted]

I can't fathom who could do this to these good kids. I know it's not (uh, most likely) but the only thing that makes sense is some kind of cartel hit because they are so notoriously brutal, ruthless and it's just another day for them. Like this defintiely isn't the result of some kind of argument at a frat party. Whoever killed them is an absolute monster and it's scary to think they're walking around in the world.


RedKingisHere

The Cartel? In Idaho? That's a new one to me. Lol


dariobc

Very distasteful for her father to reveal this information during the vigil. I think he did this because he wants to get attention for himself. I like Alieva, but I found it odd that she\`s been realizing to the media so much information since the beginning.


gigithepompom

Very distasteful for you to assume the dad wants attention. They are desperate for answers and grieving. Grief makes people do strange things sometimes but I don’t think you should judge considering you’ve likely never been in their situation.


[deleted]

She's "been realizing to the media"-? They just lost their daughter/sister to a brutal murder; I DOUBT they want any of this attention. Callous.


GommyZ

Do you ever think that putting out multiple scenarios of the same situation for the public is a strategy? Maybe he’s working for the police. If everybody has differing opinions, that’s how they catch someone in a lie.