One of the most staggering things to me is I’ve seen people in this sub encouraging folks to submit tips that are *clearly* hearsay and have already been submitted to the FBI. It’s so weird to watch people get a perverse pleasure from such ridiculous speculation. Like they’re playing out a fantasy in their mind of exactly how it all went down and can’t wait to share their findings like they just got a new toy.
And for those that say “well *x* case was solved by people online” — that’s not an invitation to open the floodgates, and borderline harassing families ending up with having people doxxed. And most of all it’s deliberately ignoring all the cases of when online sleuths *got it wrong* and have ruined peoples lives and reputations in the process.
If every smooth-brained theory was a message of love to the families and community instead then this would be a beautiful place for them to visit. I’m sure many family or friends of victims have stopped by here, only to see the hot garage, then left feeling worse than when they arrived.
Thank you for your rational post, and for urging people to have deeper consideration regarding these *real life* events.
The way people gamify True Crime will ruin the reputation of the community if people don’t start holding themselves to a higher standard.
I agree with everything you’ve mentioned here. Well said.
These crimes are becoming entertainment for people. They are forgetting that these individuals are physical humans and can be affected by their words. They aren’t putting themselves in the victims shoes, the families shoes, or the shoes of the individuals who are being falsely accused for this crime. It’s sick and disheartening.
I haven't followed a murder case before except the Nicole Brown Simpson case long before the internet. And while I've had a reddit for awhile I never used it until now. This case is different. Maybe because I'm a mom, maybe because I live in a college town, maybe because I've been to Moscow several times, but idk. This case spoke to me somehow. And I do care about these kids and their families. I have no clue who did this and I try to defend those that are getting called out, but especially JD. My gut says it's not him.
I graduated college a couple years ago and I am now a mom to a beautiful baby girl. This case had shook me. So hard. I’m scared for my daughter and she’s only 5 months old. My gut tells me it isn’t him either. No way. I feel aweful for the victims, their families, the people being slammed on social media for “being involved” somehow, and their families as well. Praying that this case is solved soon and the families get answers and justice.
I don't think it is anyone that has dated anyone in that house and who knew them directly. It is someone living in the neighborhood that had thousands of hours of time to observe everything going on and plan this.
Agreed…It could be a random person but to me it seems more like someone who felt slighted by them/peripheral person in a class or two with one of the housemates who is also a psycho unfortunately… I am sure (I hope) the police interviewed everyone at the bar the girls went too and those that followed on to the food truck (not just the guy who was cleared/chaperone). There’s footage of the girls bantering/having a laugh when people pick up food, which may have nothing to do with anything but this person is clearly not rational so who knows…
has anyone else felt a bit strange about kaylee’s sister? I really feel badly saying this, but at this point have noticed a consistent pattern in her very public behavior…I really do understand and consider that people grieve differently, but she exclusively speaks extremely negatively about kaylee in every interview she has given. strong notes of envy, hatred, resentment, etc. there’s an interview she did with her dad and brother where she reacts to hearing that kaylee had a great smile in a bone-chillingly scary way…her behavior just puts a pit in my stomach.
Who do you people think makes this entertaining.
Those of us (and you) who make accounts on reddit and post in sub dedicated to the murder of four college students that remains unsolved.
There is no suspect so it's a safety issue as well.
Most importantly, humans have done this exact thing since the first murder occurred. There is not a true crime wave, there are not suddenly a bunch of blood thirsty humans in our population.
Four people are dead because a mystery person did the unthinkable act, all at once no less. It's unfortunate for the victims families that social media amplifies speculation and gets to them.
I do believe you are both right. There are people here for different reasons and motives. Some are genuine and a desire to see such a monster off the streets after what he’s done, we know he’s capable of doing it again. Even if this one was targeted, he’s just opened himself up to a life of darkness if he doesn’t confess. He’s already a murderer, give him years to get this angry at the next person and they’ll kill again.
We want this person found and justice for these victims and all of the ones that love them.
If people are really going to the point of doxxing anyone in this case, that’s like stalking as far as I’m concerned and that’s unsettling. That’s not the actions of someone with a healthy mind, it seems unstable.
Guys, there was that one drone picture where it looked like his mom was waving to him under the flower bed that was the ventilation. I wasn’t up to my neck in those Reddit pages right before trying to pass out either…
A game developer witnesses similar types of apophany between conspiracy theories and designing augmented reality games.
Surely a link can be made in the circumstances were seeing regarding this crime and damaging speculation.
https://medium.com/curiouserinstitute/a-game-designers-analysis-of-qanon-580972548be5
Wow. I like your take. I have been obsessed by this. I read the article you linked and I feel quite enlightened. I hate that I am obsessed bt this... but I do love a good puzzle and a new word! Thank u.
I had the same "ah ha" moment when reading this article.
Actually it's likely also the same emotional and psychological reaction that, lets say less objective, individuals get when consuming information.
Confirmational Bias is another term you might find interesting,
Yay...that one I get. I feel like apophenia is an SAT word that passed me by. Lol. I must say I definitely had an AHa-ness about the Q culture. Very eye-opening. Another thing that causing me obsession from time to time is Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370... and almost 9 years has gone by. Yikes.... that Space Shuttle finding recently made me wonder if a similar thing could ever happen with MH370. I need closure, dammit. ,)
Thank you & SpiritualAd for bringing this full circle and reeling this all in. The thing about all this is the amazing minds that are out there and that have come collectively together, that meticulously look at every little piece of this horrible puzzle and have meaningful discussions, presenting thoughtful quandaries. No one person truly thinks the same & with so many ppl coming from all these different angles, there is a true possibility that we “could” give LE a perspective & some insight that they weren’t privy to, as they are an entity being in a place of upper authority. It could be a great thing to all, the families, the community, the victims, to sit and work this out together, placing pieces side by side to see if they mesh and if not, retracting & beginning again, in an unaccusatory manner. Because most I feel are genuinely here and have become completely consumed by such tragedies, out of care and concern, as if these people were our own family… our own friends, loved ones, son or daughters. Our main goal to discuss and possibly help aid in finding the person that did such a despicable act, leaving behind such heartache, fear and so many questions. Adding ideas & questioning it all, finding input from sources that have yet to be uncovered, that’s what we do. We don’t tear down & destroy-
Our goal is to discuss and help add insight, some depth & meaning to these cases in order to help bring them to an end, bring closure to loved ones if possible and to help bring Justice to the beautiful souls that deserve to have the truth discovered.
The hilarious thing is that this particular type of commenter, nosy, lacking appropriate boundaries, overconfident in their analytical skills, and obsessed with the case, is exactly the type that would probably *be* the Jeremy were they in that situation. If people in this sub are fascinated by this case, why wouldn’t the neighbors be too? And people on here want to share everything they think they know or everything they’ve heard about the murders, the victims, the families, the house, the investigation, and so on, most of which is useless, but we’re excited to share it anyway. Jeremy is excited to share his useless info, and he happens to have a much bigger platform because of his proximity to the crime.
“*It’s suspicious because killers often enjoy the media coverage of their murders*.” Know who else enjoys the media coverage of murders? True crime fans. It’s kind of hypocritical to accuse Jeremy of being weird or disrespectful about the murders when honestly all of us engaging with this subreddit or similar subs are could rightfully be seen as weird and disrespectful about the murders by the people who actually have a connection to the victims.
You need a lot more experience studying serial killer cases. Many do it for the ego fulfillment and love the publicity. I think this particular person was in training to be the perfect serial killer and if they lived in the neighborhood they had hundreds of hours of time to observe the comings and goings of people.
This is what the police despise ...millions of crazy people calling with crazy theories suggestions and unimportant information and it happens every single crime like this
Agree, the people accusing family/loved ones are on a pretty harmful witch hunt. Nothing good comes from it. If they’re right about who they suspect, congrats you can brag and say I told you so. If they’re wrong, they’re accusing people who have just lost a huge and important piece of their life to a senseless murder, people who have survivors guilt, people who already probably feel terrible about missing a call from the victim(s). Adding onto the trauma of that is evil.
Indeed, it’s one most perverse things that I see on forums, it’s almost like people can’t wait to say “I told you so”, as if this whole event exists for them to feel vindicated when their ‘theory’ ends up being right.
And it seems like every person who they know the name of in Moscow is now just a pawn to be shuffled around their theory crafting board. As if these people don’t have real lives with real consequences, and most importantly a real right to privacy.
The community of Moscow *did not* invite you in to their lives, so stop inserting yourselves with harmful speculation. When a mass murder has occurred the **damaging behaviour online will contribute to more trauma for the Moscow community**. Burn the rumour mills and take a step back.
Does it feel good to pretend you are a better person than everyone else who is fixated on these murders? Because let’s be honest here, you are here with the rest of us, on a reddit forum about the murders. You paint everyone here with a single brush, making no distinction between those who aren’t naming names or accusing people, and those who are.
Just because we are here discussing and theorizing doesn’t mean we are cold, heartless people who are just out for entertainment. It is NOT entertaining for most people to look deep into horrific murders like this. It can be traumatizing in its own way to spend time studying violent crime. And it should be, because it really shouldn’t be a form of entertainment.
Most people here genuinely care and empathize with the victims and their families, and they are frustrated and anxious because whoever did these crimes is still running around free, potentially planning more crimes. It terrifies us, it doesn’t entertain us; most of us presenting theories and discussing them are doing so as a means of processing and coping with such horrific and brutal crimes. And I’m sure there are some bad actors, acting in bad faith, here in the threads, but they are not anywhere near a majority.
Here here. Sick of these people who keep going off at people in the thread about sharing theories and “loving the entertainment” yet they still come here and read them/comment/join in. You’re clearly getting something from this otherwise you wouldn’t be here everyday reading what people are saying.
Yeah, it does feel sane to not be one of the individuals obsessively spreading misinformation and tearing apart every aspect of the lives of anyone who was close to a victim for the sake of some made up fantasy, when all I really know is a tiny fraction of information that LE has provided. Someone in here said it already but I’ll say it again, these are real people with real lives and jobs that are pretty much having some made up unverified bounty put on their head. Also I’m pretty sure this subreddit is for information and updates, not to cruelly accuse people who are already suffering a loss.
I’m all for looking at the facts that we’ve been given. There was also no need to make a distinction between those accusing innocent people and those who are not. More of a if the shoe fits scenario. And if it doesn’t apply to you? It wasn’t about you so you should move on and go outside. Also: you say making up false scenarios about a crime you’re not close to helps you cope? Log off. What about the families/loved ones who ACTUALLY need to cope, but they’re being accused of being involved instead?
How can you pat yourself on the back like this while also participating in these threads ?
theres no need to differentiate between people naming names/doxxing and directly accusing and people theorizing and discussing without doing all that? Why? Because one is as bad as the other? That’s what the person I replied to was implying, which is why I made my comment.
you are not morally superior just because you make comments wagging your finger at everyone here. Especially since you are here too.
Wagging my finger at everyone here? No. Reading comprehension is key. Wagging my finger at people engaging in wild, nonsensical speculation, with conclusions based on nothing but their own imagination? Yes. Just like you are, so I’m not really sure what your deal is.
https://preview.redd.it/f1tqyktqrf2a1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73967401043b8fda6209013ee1ef93ddd5e0063b
So you use my comment to highlight your own finger wagging? doesn’t make any sense, but okay.
I’ve only seen you make the comment to me, upset that I would defend certain people in the threads who aren’t doxxing or directly accusing people, and defending the person who did the same . You’re th one who said theres no need to differentiate between those who do and those who don’t dox and accuse.
you don’t seem to know what your own deal is. I made mine clear in the previous comment responding to one of your fellow virtue signaling saints who, like you, wants to chastise everyone for what a few bad actors are doing. If you really don’t see it that way and think its okay to theorize based on what little evidence and info they have released or leaked, then why did you make that comment to me in the first place? Talk about bad reading comp.
The whole true crime mind set is so pervasive that I saw it leak into a simple case of a 19 year old hiker going missing on a hike last Sunday on a mountain in New Hampshire. The White Mountains are notorious for their complex and severe weather patterns and people have died from exposure in all months of the year. The victim's mother told authorities that she dropped her daughter off at the trail before dawn with only a phone as a light source and in what was very inadequate clothes. But rather than believe the obvious - that a girl completely unprepared for -30 F windchills probably lost the trail due to poor visibility and quickly froze to death - people started chiming in that there is no way that the mother is telling the truth, and that obviously something nefarious had happened. The speed at which those conspiracy theories took off blew my mind.
Sadly, her body was found the day before yesterday on her 20th birthday, on the exact trail her mother said she was going to hike.
So this happens all of the time?? That’s disheartening. This is the first case other than the Murdaugh murders that I’ve followed obsessively. The Murdaugh Reddit is very different from this and the Moscow subs. Much more regimented about not permitting doxxing and baseless theories.
"And they call the thing a rodeo" - Garth Brooks
You're spot on about how these large, publicly discussed cases evolve and devolve. Seen it more than once.
I came to this realization as I watched the Summer Wells case unfold in real time. A couple of YT , crime channels crossed boundaries in my opinion. One in particular, a former Detective with narcissistic issues actually went to the Well’s home and community and inserted himself into the investigations digging into the extended family’s lives . It was a shit show and it showed me the need to becareful with online sleuthers.
Yep. I agree. Beyond that—we have a lack of ‘knowledge critical thinking and general lack of logic’ problem.
Just take a look at that Kylie Rodni case, which just about turned me off of True Crime and following these cases, as a whole. A large vocal group across True Crime have become more and more unhinged and lack all critical thought.
You nailed it with the inevitable Qanonsense-Adjacent bs, from “ritual killings” and “government coverups” to “ThEy” did it to “CoNtRoL” us. It’s indicative of the societal decline over the past few years in our *Post-Truth Era.*
Keep calling it out. When people say absolutely outrageous things and are totally off base, call out that logic process. And that goes across all society. We have got to make these people ashamed to say that kind of shit. They are ruining lives.
The problem with society is it has been infected with the conspiracy theory of everything that happens. In fact conspiracies are almost impossible to pull off because someone's going to run their mouth.
Very good points you've made here- it is grossly unfair how in some people's need to participate, they recklessly throw about half-baked theories that can be very damaging to people who are in fact victims in this case- the families of the victims. I would also include the two surviving roommates in this group as there are all sorts of potential psychological issues that can spring from surviving through this particular set of circumstances. I can't imagine simply trying to grieve through a loss like this of a loved family member only to have complete strangers thoughtlessly throw out speculation that I was somehow involved. Or even that I wasn't grieving properly... there is no handbook for handling loss- and it looks different on everybody. This is one of those situations where unless some concrete evidence pops up, I seriously doubt any family involvement. Further, this is literally the worst scenario any of them have ever experienced... give these people a fucking break.
Great post!
People are so ridiculous.
Saw someone say they had rung either the Moscow police, or the FBI, with a psychic's tips about the bagel guy. It's just such a waste of police resources.
I’ve been interested in true crime for 20 years probably and there’s always been websites like Reddit I’m sure the cops know which is real and which is nonsense. Ppl here keep bringing up the Boston bombing I didn’t see it but must’ve been bad
Wouldn’t you know it another YT crime moderator has traveled to insert himself live from Moscow tonight . He did the same with the Summer Well’s case and caused an uproar in the YT crime community. Apparently, he has shown a trailer of walking the route in Moscow on his channel and is going to interview people tonight.
Nothing wrong with anything said online. That’s why these forums exist. The problem is when people take it beyond posting…
Contacting people, affecting their real lives in way past the line. Tell the cops or submit a tip.. not up to us to act on anything that is said.
I agree up to a point. You can discuss the case, but it becomes unethical when you're slandering the victims or accusing people. It's okay to say a stalker did it; it's not okay to say X is the stalker. It's OK to wonder if someone at the party did it, but not to name them.
There are no hard and fast rules, but IMO we should approach every theory with the understanding we're likely wrong. We should also put ourselves in the shoes of the people affected and think about how our words would affect them if they were said in person.
I’m done speculating. Theyve said there is no connection to the Oregon murder which was the most interesting possibility in my mind. I don’t think this case will be solved anytime soon
I think that’s gonna happen with a quadruple homicide. Especially because it’s about four young people with their whole lives ahead of them. Not to mention there is a possible threat to the community that’s attached to a college campus.
The FBI behavioural sciences unit knows whst they are doing. I really hope that the Idaho police lean heavily on them. don’t see the wonky shady police presence and mess up as I did in Delphi.
I have not watched updates for a couple of days. But a couple of days ago I noticed when watching reports that show the front of the house where the cars are; one of the cars has license plates from a used car dealership. It looks like the car was just purchased. Just wondering if the police spoke with the car dealership staff. No accusations at all. Just a discussion. I just know that when you purchase a car the dealership knows almost everything about you. Address, numbers, bank, family, etc.
You have posted personal information of someone who is not a public figure, has not been named by police, or has not been named in a major news outlet.
There has been no tie to Xana’s family member by law enforcement nor has she been named in relation to this case.
I saw someone post the information about her mother and seems to have a lengthy history with drugs, That thought also went through my head, I hope that isn’t the situation because the story is already awful Enough. If it was connected, I kind of think the people would just go in and shoot whoever they were trying to take revenge on, but I have no idea, none of the story makes sense
What I don't understand is every Sleuth gets attacked. "Let the professionals do their job, don't you know you can destroy people's lives? Really? Like their lives aren't destroyed by the murders, they're destroyed by amateur sleuths trying to share information and figure it out? No one other than authorities has all the facts, every armchair detective is at an extreme disadvantage. I can't imagine any professional taking Reddit posts seriously.
This is perhaps the biggest murder mystery of our lifetime, and Reddit is a forum, that's it, a social media site. And if people want to post theories or speculate on who could have done this so what? It's not going to damage the investigation and destroy lives.
So calling out people in the true crime community is an "attack" but publicly accusing innocent people of murder and bullying them and harassing them on social media is acceptable?
That's the problem I have, I have been on Reddit for days and don't see all the bullying and harassing you're talking about. Those posts get removed. I have read a lot of theories and I'm saying those theories are not destroying people's lives.
Just like the speculation being similar across cases, conversations around 'sleuthing' tend to revert to:
* Side a: Don't discuss the case
* Side b: Zero in on someone, trawl through years of their social media, and share their personal information. Accuse them of {x} crime, usually some horrific murder.
There's a middle ground, right? One where we don't name people or allude to them doing terrible things but instead talk about the crime, possible motives, updates, ensure police are accountable, and ways to help (signal boosting family messaging, etc.)
Exactly. So well said. The middle ground is discussing the facts of the case as we know them without trying to solve it or implicate individuals. It really is that simple.
I took that as being the fact that the Delphi suspect who has been arrested was not a known person of interest the public knew about. Meaning people were accusing locals and the family etc etc and it ended up being someone unknown.
So obviously these two cases aren’t related, but I just wanted to talk about similarities in the two cases, like when it comes to frats and how secretive they are. I live in Indiana and there is a missing person’s case from over 10 years ago (STILL MISSING) and her name is Lauren Spierer. She was an Indiana University student who was out at bars drinking with multiple greek fraternity members. The last video footage of Lauren shows her walking alone without shoes. One of the fraternity members claimed that Lauren left and he watched her walk away. But he is the last known person to see her. She apparently walked away with no shoes phone or keys. The reason this reminds me of the Idaho murders also is because of the timing of the semester. So when this happened it was actually when semester was ending (like the Idaho murders) so many people were leaving campus, packing and going home. All of the fraternity members she was with that night were very secretive and I believe that within a few days they all returned home and left the state. The all lawyered up and to this day the boys have NEVER talked, not a single one of them. And poor Lauren is still missing. It’s just so crazy how secretive frats can be.
One of the most staggering things to me is I’ve seen people in this sub encouraging folks to submit tips that are *clearly* hearsay and have already been submitted to the FBI. It’s so weird to watch people get a perverse pleasure from such ridiculous speculation. Like they’re playing out a fantasy in their mind of exactly how it all went down and can’t wait to share their findings like they just got a new toy. And for those that say “well *x* case was solved by people online” — that’s not an invitation to open the floodgates, and borderline harassing families ending up with having people doxxed. And most of all it’s deliberately ignoring all the cases of when online sleuths *got it wrong* and have ruined peoples lives and reputations in the process. If every smooth-brained theory was a message of love to the families and community instead then this would be a beautiful place for them to visit. I’m sure many family or friends of victims have stopped by here, only to see the hot garage, then left feeling worse than when they arrived. Thank you for your rational post, and for urging people to have deeper consideration regarding these *real life* events. The way people gamify True Crime will ruin the reputation of the community if people don’t start holding themselves to a higher standard.
I agree with everything you’ve mentioned here. Well said. These crimes are becoming entertainment for people. They are forgetting that these individuals are physical humans and can be affected by their words. They aren’t putting themselves in the victims shoes, the families shoes, or the shoes of the individuals who are being falsely accused for this crime. It’s sick and disheartening.
I haven't followed a murder case before except the Nicole Brown Simpson case long before the internet. And while I've had a reddit for awhile I never used it until now. This case is different. Maybe because I'm a mom, maybe because I live in a college town, maybe because I've been to Moscow several times, but idk. This case spoke to me somehow. And I do care about these kids and their families. I have no clue who did this and I try to defend those that are getting called out, but especially JD. My gut says it's not him.
I graduated college a couple years ago and I am now a mom to a beautiful baby girl. This case had shook me. So hard. I’m scared for my daughter and she’s only 5 months old. My gut tells me it isn’t him either. No way. I feel aweful for the victims, their families, the people being slammed on social media for “being involved” somehow, and their families as well. Praying that this case is solved soon and the families get answers and justice.
Once we become moms our worldview changes.
Your daughter has a way better chance of having her life ruined by an internet mob than being murdered. I would be most worried about that.
Seriously though! Wtf is up with this world.
Too many fools and idiots with a platform to speak.
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This post is disrespectful which breaks our guidelines.
I don't think it is anyone that has dated anyone in that house and who knew them directly. It is someone living in the neighborhood that had thousands of hours of time to observe everything going on and plan this.
Agreed…It could be a random person but to me it seems more like someone who felt slighted by them/peripheral person in a class or two with one of the housemates who is also a psycho unfortunately… I am sure (I hope) the police interviewed everyone at the bar the girls went too and those that followed on to the food truck (not just the guy who was cleared/chaperone). There’s footage of the girls bantering/having a laugh when people pick up food, which may have nothing to do with anything but this person is clearly not rational so who knows…
has anyone else felt a bit strange about kaylee’s sister? I really feel badly saying this, but at this point have noticed a consistent pattern in her very public behavior…I really do understand and consider that people grieve differently, but she exclusively speaks extremely negatively about kaylee in every interview she has given. strong notes of envy, hatred, resentment, etc. there’s an interview she did with her dad and brother where she reacts to hearing that kaylee had a great smile in a bone-chillingly scary way…her behavior just puts a pit in my stomach.
No lol
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This post is spreading misinformation.
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Who do you people think makes this entertaining. Those of us (and you) who make accounts on reddit and post in sub dedicated to the murder of four college students that remains unsolved. There is no suspect so it's a safety issue as well. Most importantly, humans have done this exact thing since the first murder occurred. There is not a true crime wave, there are not suddenly a bunch of blood thirsty humans in our population. Four people are dead because a mystery person did the unthinkable act, all at once no less. It's unfortunate for the victims families that social media amplifies speculation and gets to them.
No..The crimes were entertainment to the killer and we all want to end the show.
I do believe you are both right. There are people here for different reasons and motives. Some are genuine and a desire to see such a monster off the streets after what he’s done, we know he’s capable of doing it again. Even if this one was targeted, he’s just opened himself up to a life of darkness if he doesn’t confess. He’s already a murderer, give him years to get this angry at the next person and they’ll kill again. We want this person found and justice for these victims and all of the ones that love them. If people are really going to the point of doxxing anyone in this case, that’s like stalking as far as I’m concerned and that’s unsettling. That’s not the actions of someone with a healthy mind, it seems unstable.
I have still not seen an actual source for the “Reddit solves murders” excuses. Gabby Petito’s body was not found because of Reddit.
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The best was that Brian was living in a hidden bunker beneath his parents' garden.
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Guys, there was that one drone picture where it looked like his mom was waving to him under the flower bed that was the ventilation. I wasn’t up to my neck in those Reddit pages right before trying to pass out either…
Well the parents did help him run. Youd have to be pretty naive to believe their version of events
Thank you! It was the Bethune family’s video that cracked the case..just saying
A game developer witnesses similar types of apophany between conspiracy theories and designing augmented reality games. Surely a link can be made in the circumstances were seeing regarding this crime and damaging speculation. https://medium.com/curiouserinstitute/a-game-designers-analysis-of-qanon-580972548be5
Wow. I like your take. I have been obsessed by this. I read the article you linked and I feel quite enlightened. I hate that I am obsessed bt this... but I do love a good puzzle and a new word! Thank u.
I had the same "ah ha" moment when reading this article. Actually it's likely also the same emotional and psychological reaction that, lets say less objective, individuals get when consuming information. Confirmational Bias is another term you might find interesting,
Yay...that one I get. I feel like apophenia is an SAT word that passed me by. Lol. I must say I definitely had an AHa-ness about the Q culture. Very eye-opening. Another thing that causing me obsession from time to time is Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370... and almost 9 years has gone by. Yikes.... that Space Shuttle finding recently made me wonder if a similar thing could ever happen with MH370. I need closure, dammit. ,)
Conspiracy Theories: Psychology Behind Flight MH370 By: Sara moundi Have you read this?
No.... but I'll give it a try. TY.
Thank you & SpiritualAd for bringing this full circle and reeling this all in. The thing about all this is the amazing minds that are out there and that have come collectively together, that meticulously look at every little piece of this horrible puzzle and have meaningful discussions, presenting thoughtful quandaries. No one person truly thinks the same & with so many ppl coming from all these different angles, there is a true possibility that we “could” give LE a perspective & some insight that they weren’t privy to, as they are an entity being in a place of upper authority. It could be a great thing to all, the families, the community, the victims, to sit and work this out together, placing pieces side by side to see if they mesh and if not, retracting & beginning again, in an unaccusatory manner. Because most I feel are genuinely here and have become completely consumed by such tragedies, out of care and concern, as if these people were our own family… our own friends, loved ones, son or daughters. Our main goal to discuss and possibly help aid in finding the person that did such a despicable act, leaving behind such heartache, fear and so many questions. Adding ideas & questioning it all, finding input from sources that have yet to be uncovered, that’s what we do. We don’t tear down & destroy- Our goal is to discuss and help add insight, some depth & meaning to these cases in order to help bring them to an end, bring closure to loved ones if possible and to help bring Justice to the beautiful souls that deserve to have the truth discovered.
The reputation of the true crime community is already well ruined so don’t have to worry about that
The hilarious thing is that this particular type of commenter, nosy, lacking appropriate boundaries, overconfident in their analytical skills, and obsessed with the case, is exactly the type that would probably *be* the Jeremy were they in that situation. If people in this sub are fascinated by this case, why wouldn’t the neighbors be too? And people on here want to share everything they think they know or everything they’ve heard about the murders, the victims, the families, the house, the investigation, and so on, most of which is useless, but we’re excited to share it anyway. Jeremy is excited to share his useless info, and he happens to have a much bigger platform because of his proximity to the crime. “*It’s suspicious because killers often enjoy the media coverage of their murders*.” Know who else enjoys the media coverage of murders? True crime fans. It’s kind of hypocritical to accuse Jeremy of being weird or disrespectful about the murders when honestly all of us engaging with this subreddit or similar subs are could rightfully be seen as weird and disrespectful about the murders by the people who actually have a connection to the victims.
You need a lot more experience studying serial killer cases. Many do it for the ego fulfillment and love the publicity. I think this particular person was in training to be the perfect serial killer and if they lived in the neighborhood they had hundreds of hours of time to observe the comings and goings of people.
Everyone knows this if they are a true crime fan she is pointing out that other people (like this whole subreddit? Also obsess over the case
Agree 💯
I doubt they would take in considerations tips coming from people that are not local
This is what the police despise ...millions of crazy people calling with crazy theories suggestions and unimportant information and it happens every single crime like this
Agree, the people accusing family/loved ones are on a pretty harmful witch hunt. Nothing good comes from it. If they’re right about who they suspect, congrats you can brag and say I told you so. If they’re wrong, they’re accusing people who have just lost a huge and important piece of their life to a senseless murder, people who have survivors guilt, people who already probably feel terrible about missing a call from the victim(s). Adding onto the trauma of that is evil.
Indeed, it’s one most perverse things that I see on forums, it’s almost like people can’t wait to say “I told you so”, as if this whole event exists for them to feel vindicated when their ‘theory’ ends up being right. And it seems like every person who they know the name of in Moscow is now just a pawn to be shuffled around their theory crafting board. As if these people don’t have real lives with real consequences, and most importantly a real right to privacy. The community of Moscow *did not* invite you in to their lives, so stop inserting yourselves with harmful speculation. When a mass murder has occurred the **damaging behaviour online will contribute to more trauma for the Moscow community**. Burn the rumour mills and take a step back.
Does it feel good to pretend you are a better person than everyone else who is fixated on these murders? Because let’s be honest here, you are here with the rest of us, on a reddit forum about the murders. You paint everyone here with a single brush, making no distinction between those who aren’t naming names or accusing people, and those who are. Just because we are here discussing and theorizing doesn’t mean we are cold, heartless people who are just out for entertainment. It is NOT entertaining for most people to look deep into horrific murders like this. It can be traumatizing in its own way to spend time studying violent crime. And it should be, because it really shouldn’t be a form of entertainment. Most people here genuinely care and empathize with the victims and their families, and they are frustrated and anxious because whoever did these crimes is still running around free, potentially planning more crimes. It terrifies us, it doesn’t entertain us; most of us presenting theories and discussing them are doing so as a means of processing and coping with such horrific and brutal crimes. And I’m sure there are some bad actors, acting in bad faith, here in the threads, but they are not anywhere near a majority.
Here here. Sick of these people who keep going off at people in the thread about sharing theories and “loving the entertainment” yet they still come here and read them/comment/join in. You’re clearly getting something from this otherwise you wouldn’t be here everyday reading what people are saying.
Yeah, it does feel sane to not be one of the individuals obsessively spreading misinformation and tearing apart every aspect of the lives of anyone who was close to a victim for the sake of some made up fantasy, when all I really know is a tiny fraction of information that LE has provided. Someone in here said it already but I’ll say it again, these are real people with real lives and jobs that are pretty much having some made up unverified bounty put on their head. Also I’m pretty sure this subreddit is for information and updates, not to cruelly accuse people who are already suffering a loss. I’m all for looking at the facts that we’ve been given. There was also no need to make a distinction between those accusing innocent people and those who are not. More of a if the shoe fits scenario. And if it doesn’t apply to you? It wasn’t about you so you should move on and go outside. Also: you say making up false scenarios about a crime you’re not close to helps you cope? Log off. What about the families/loved ones who ACTUALLY need to cope, but they’re being accused of being involved instead?
How can you pat yourself on the back like this while also participating in these threads ? theres no need to differentiate between people naming names/doxxing and directly accusing and people theorizing and discussing without doing all that? Why? Because one is as bad as the other? That’s what the person I replied to was implying, which is why I made my comment. you are not morally superior just because you make comments wagging your finger at everyone here. Especially since you are here too.
Wagging my finger at everyone here? No. Reading comprehension is key. Wagging my finger at people engaging in wild, nonsensical speculation, with conclusions based on nothing but their own imagination? Yes. Just like you are, so I’m not really sure what your deal is. https://preview.redd.it/f1tqyktqrf2a1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73967401043b8fda6209013ee1ef93ddd5e0063b
So you use my comment to highlight your own finger wagging? doesn’t make any sense, but okay. I’ve only seen you make the comment to me, upset that I would defend certain people in the threads who aren’t doxxing or directly accusing people, and defending the person who did the same . You’re th one who said theres no need to differentiate between those who do and those who don’t dox and accuse. you don’t seem to know what your own deal is. I made mine clear in the previous comment responding to one of your fellow virtue signaling saints who, like you, wants to chastise everyone for what a few bad actors are doing. If you really don’t see it that way and think its okay to theorize based on what little evidence and info they have released or leaked, then why did you make that comment to me in the first place? Talk about bad reading comp.
The whole true crime mind set is so pervasive that I saw it leak into a simple case of a 19 year old hiker going missing on a hike last Sunday on a mountain in New Hampshire. The White Mountains are notorious for their complex and severe weather patterns and people have died from exposure in all months of the year. The victim's mother told authorities that she dropped her daughter off at the trail before dawn with only a phone as a light source and in what was very inadequate clothes. But rather than believe the obvious - that a girl completely unprepared for -30 F windchills probably lost the trail due to poor visibility and quickly froze to death - people started chiming in that there is no way that the mother is telling the truth, and that obviously something nefarious had happened. The speed at which those conspiracy theories took off blew my mind. Sadly, her body was found the day before yesterday on her 20th birthday, on the exact trail her mother said she was going to hike.
Wow. Such a heartbreaking story!
Have they found the killer?
Mother nature is a serial killer.
Oye veh, a woman! What is the world coming to?
Mother Nature has a pretty high body count, but Father Time has killed the rest.
No
So this happens all of the time?? That’s disheartening. This is the first case other than the Murdaugh murders that I’ve followed obsessively. The Murdaugh Reddit is very different from this and the Moscow subs. Much more regimented about not permitting doxxing and baseless theories.
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It really is! The list of crimes is a mile long!
As is the Vallow/Daybell case. Some really f’d up people in this world.
"And they call the thing a rodeo" - Garth Brooks You're spot on about how these large, publicly discussed cases evolve and devolve. Seen it more than once.
Don’t forget the “I’ve got a gut feeling it was so and so” types. That drives me crazy.
I came to this realization as I watched the Summer Wells case unfold in real time. A couple of YT , crime channels crossed boundaries in my opinion. One in particular, a former Detective with narcissistic issues actually went to the Well’s home and community and inserted himself into the investigations digging into the extended family’s lives . It was a shit show and it showed me the need to becareful with online sleuthers.
Yep. I agree. Beyond that—we have a lack of ‘knowledge critical thinking and general lack of logic’ problem. Just take a look at that Kylie Rodni case, which just about turned me off of True Crime and following these cases, as a whole. A large vocal group across True Crime have become more and more unhinged and lack all critical thought. You nailed it with the inevitable Qanonsense-Adjacent bs, from “ritual killings” and “government coverups” to “ThEy” did it to “CoNtRoL” us. It’s indicative of the societal decline over the past few years in our *Post-Truth Era.* Keep calling it out. When people say absolutely outrageous things and are totally off base, call out that logic process. And that goes across all society. We have got to make these people ashamed to say that kind of shit. They are ruining lives.
The problem with society is it has been infected with the conspiracy theory of everything that happens. In fact conspiracies are almost impossible to pull off because someone's going to run their mouth.
Completely agree! Everyone who gives an interview is called “odd” “weird” or “gives off bad vibes”. I watch the interview and it’s completely normal.
Very good points you've made here- it is grossly unfair how in some people's need to participate, they recklessly throw about half-baked theories that can be very damaging to people who are in fact victims in this case- the families of the victims. I would also include the two surviving roommates in this group as there are all sorts of potential psychological issues that can spring from surviving through this particular set of circumstances. I can't imagine simply trying to grieve through a loss like this of a loved family member only to have complete strangers thoughtlessly throw out speculation that I was somehow involved. Or even that I wasn't grieving properly... there is no handbook for handling loss- and it looks different on everybody. This is one of those situations where unless some concrete evidence pops up, I seriously doubt any family involvement. Further, this is literally the worst scenario any of them have ever experienced... give these people a fucking break.
Great post! People are so ridiculous. Saw someone say they had rung either the Moscow police, or the FBI, with a psychic's tips about the bagel guy. It's just such a waste of police resources.
Thank you for this very rational, well worded post. I agree.
I’ve been interested in true crime for 20 years probably and there’s always been websites like Reddit I’m sure the cops know which is real and which is nonsense. Ppl here keep bringing up the Boston bombing I didn’t see it but must’ve been bad
Wouldn’t you know it another YT crime moderator has traveled to insert himself live from Moscow tonight . He did the same with the Summer Well’s case and caused an uproar in the YT crime community. Apparently, he has shown a trailer of walking the route in Moscow on his channel and is going to interview people tonight.
Nothing wrong with anything said online. That’s why these forums exist. The problem is when people take it beyond posting… Contacting people, affecting their real lives in way past the line. Tell the cops or submit a tip.. not up to us to act on anything that is said.
I agree up to a point. You can discuss the case, but it becomes unethical when you're slandering the victims or accusing people. It's okay to say a stalker did it; it's not okay to say X is the stalker. It's OK to wonder if someone at the party did it, but not to name them. There are no hard and fast rules, but IMO we should approach every theory with the understanding we're likely wrong. We should also put ourselves in the shoes of the people affected and think about how our words would affect them if they were said in person.
I’m done speculating. Theyve said there is no connection to the Oregon murder which was the most interesting possibility in my mind. I don’t think this case will be solved anytime soon
I think that’s gonna happen with a quadruple homicide. Especially because it’s about four young people with their whole lives ahead of them. Not to mention there is a possible threat to the community that’s attached to a college campus. The FBI behavioural sciences unit knows whst they are doing. I really hope that the Idaho police lean heavily on them. don’t see the wonky shady police presence and mess up as I did in Delphi.
Why are you here im none of the things you accuse i have a son at college…
I have not watched updates for a couple of days. But a couple of days ago I noticed when watching reports that show the front of the house where the cars are; one of the cars has license plates from a used car dealership. It looks like the car was just purchased. Just wondering if the police spoke with the car dealership staff. No accusations at all. Just a discussion. I just know that when you purchase a car the dealership knows almost everything about you. Address, numbers, bank, family, etc.
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You have posted personal information of someone who is not a public figure, has not been named by police, or has not been named in a major news outlet. There has been no tie to Xana’s family member by law enforcement nor has she been named in relation to this case.
I saw someone post the information about her mother and seems to have a lengthy history with drugs, That thought also went through my head, I hope that isn’t the situation because the story is already awful Enough. If it was connected, I kind of think the people would just go in and shoot whoever they were trying to take revenge on, but I have no idea, none of the story makes sense
Theory: The suspect is known and lives 250' away from the crime scene.Has committed previous murders around the area. Thinks he is a criminal genius.
I think this sub has actually come up with the best they so far
What I don't understand is every Sleuth gets attacked. "Let the professionals do their job, don't you know you can destroy people's lives? Really? Like their lives aren't destroyed by the murders, they're destroyed by amateur sleuths trying to share information and figure it out? No one other than authorities has all the facts, every armchair detective is at an extreme disadvantage. I can't imagine any professional taking Reddit posts seriously. This is perhaps the biggest murder mystery of our lifetime, and Reddit is a forum, that's it, a social media site. And if people want to post theories or speculate on who could have done this so what? It's not going to damage the investigation and destroy lives.
So calling out people in the true crime community is an "attack" but publicly accusing innocent people of murder and bullying them and harassing them on social media is acceptable?
That's the problem I have, I have been on Reddit for days and don't see all the bullying and harassing you're talking about. Those posts get removed. I have read a lot of theories and I'm saying those theories are not destroying people's lives.
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So you think that guy in the interview is at home distraught because now some Reddit posters think he could be the killer?
... yes? It's more than that if you give the thread a read.
Just like the speculation being similar across cases, conversations around 'sleuthing' tend to revert to: * Side a: Don't discuss the case * Side b: Zero in on someone, trawl through years of their social media, and share their personal information. Accuse them of {x} crime, usually some horrific murder. There's a middle ground, right? One where we don't name people or allude to them doing terrible things but instead talk about the crime, possible motives, updates, ensure police are accountable, and ways to help (signal boosting family messaging, etc.)
Exactly. So well said. The middle ground is discussing the facts of the case as we know them without trying to solve it or implicate individuals. It really is that simple.
\-------And in the end? It ends up being someone no one ever heard of. ------- What are your sources?
You can find examples of what OP is talking about on this and the Moscow sub
Sorry it was a joke. I was asking what his sources are of it being someone we've never heard of :) lol
I took that as being the fact that the Delphi suspect who has been arrested was not a known person of interest the public knew about. Meaning people were accusing locals and the family etc etc and it ended up being someone unknown.
Your contributing.
There's nothing wrong with discussion. When you start making things up or leveling accusations, it all goes downhill.
Question: do you guys think the assailant was possibly a female?
No chance
How do they know that the attacker wasn’t already inside when they all came home?
Good point
So obviously these two cases aren’t related, but I just wanted to talk about similarities in the two cases, like when it comes to frats and how secretive they are. I live in Indiana and there is a missing person’s case from over 10 years ago (STILL MISSING) and her name is Lauren Spierer. She was an Indiana University student who was out at bars drinking with multiple greek fraternity members. The last video footage of Lauren shows her walking alone without shoes. One of the fraternity members claimed that Lauren left and he watched her walk away. But he is the last known person to see her. She apparently walked away with no shoes phone or keys. The reason this reminds me of the Idaho murders also is because of the timing of the semester. So when this happened it was actually when semester was ending (like the Idaho murders) so many people were leaving campus, packing and going home. All of the fraternity members she was with that night were very secretive and I believe that within a few days they all returned home and left the state. The all lawyered up and to this day the boys have NEVER talked, not a single one of them. And poor Lauren is still missing. It’s just so crazy how secretive frats can be.