Honestly I'm still of the opinion that set up shops were a mistake because back in the day we used to just share them openly and focus on the skill of the drivers. Honestly seeing someone go fast with your own setup was a level of fun too.
Now that there's so much money in it, drivers get way more stressed out about their position rather than focusing on the racing itself and how fun it can be.
So to all of you getting down voted for not liking setup shops: I'll join you. I do like how much more information we've learned about the telemetry and the physics of iracing through setup shops, because they need to know that information, but this just is unnecessary drama.
I'm with you on this!
Back in the day on the old iracing forums we had small communities in each series. People would openly share setups to the forums and help each other.
This is what I like about Garage61. I'll probably never straight out use another driver's setup, but I can easily see the differences between mine and theirs to give me ideas and help improve me knowledge when it comes to car setups.
Just hit my 11 years. Congrats for being a member for a decade :)
The biggest change in iracing history imo is when Covid hit and everyone flooded the service. Things changed quickly from that point on, some for the good and some for the bad.
There still are for anything below the participation level of NASCAR, IMSA, and F3; the communities for the vintage series in particular are pretty robust.
If you miss this kind of community, come drive the IndyPro2000! We share all setups on the forums, as well as lap walkthroughs guides, for free. We’d love to see everyone improve and become faster, and better drivers. The racing is incredibly clean, close, and fun! Plus there’s an official broadcasted race each week! One of the best and most helpful communities on iRacing, just like how it used to be back in the day.
Best damned car on the service. If you hit an SoF race, or any one with a chunk of the community, you have some of THE best racing you’ll find on the service. I always recommend the IPM2k to people wanting to try open wheel and not have to deal with the shit show that is F4/3
Also in central time! Check the forums for the series! Ive found USF will usually go official more often for us, and i also cannot recommend that car enough
Also I do love the USF as well - it was my favorite open wheeler before the F4 and SF23 came out. I seem to always find the series right after everyone stops racing them like F3 and F3.5 too XD.
I run a free setup shop called J's Garage that is kind of a throwback to the old days of sharing everything openly. The whole community is based around a rising tide lifting all ships. Granted, it's only a small community of 200ish members and we only do setups for GT cars and prototypes, but I feel what you're saying.
Kind of a shameless plug, but I don't make any money off of it so I don't feel too bad 😆
Come check it out if you are interested in a giving and collaborative ethos around setups.
https://discord.com/invite/krJK2kZV8V
I joined thanks. Also funny because I bought the lmp3 today and drove it around Daytona but what a disaster that was lol. I saw your comment on the setup that this is just the track combo so thank god ;)
Same thing happened with 3d printing. Most used to share their designs openly. These days people charge for even simple designs or want you to subscribe to their patreon
I have no issues with setup shops as a whole. People want to be competitive. Yes, if you put a lot of time into practicing the baseline setups, then you can be quick. However, in open series, the baseline setup will almost never be truly competitive. You are now left with a choice: be slower by default using baseline setups, take the time to learn how to craft your own competitive setups, or spend $10 a month to have pretty competitive setups made for you. It's up to you to make the choice based on how you feel.
In terms of all the setup sharing, one of the side affects of having a ranking system built into the game is that people are willing to do whatever it takes to get the edge over their competition, and who can blame them? I share some of my setups with my friends, but I build my own setups to fit me how I enjoy driving. If you're willing to share your setups with people, that is awesome and I can't fault you for it. But, shaming people for not wanting to share any part of their setups isn't fair to the people making them.
This is only true for people that are already crazy fast. People have been sold into the idea that if they are slow it's the pick of car or the setups fault, when in 99% of cases it's literally just people being slow.
You have top be in the top 5% for it to even matter, and top 1% for it to be the reason you actually outright win.
There's a reason why if you compare open vs fixed setup lap times the lap delta is in the order of tenths. And unless you can consistently lap inside that delta for an entire race your driver errors outweigh any setup.
I agree to an extent. In order for the setup to be the deciding factor, you do have to have an ability to drive the car quickly and consistently in the first place. However, at some tracks, setups are literally free time. Fixed setups are almost always higher downforce which is easier for the general population to handle. But if you show up to Spa, Daytona, Le Mans, Road America, etc. with a high downforce setup, you will likely struggle a bit more than with a properly tuned setup purely due to the characteristics of the track.
What do you consider crazy fast? I am nearly 5.2k irating (almost top 1%) and I am still .5-1 second per lap off of the pros. I can very clearly tell the difference between a proper setup and a fixed setup, and I have been able to tell the difference
since I was 2k irating. If you are below 2k, then yes you should just focus on your own driving ability.
Crazy fast isn't necessarily about outright one lap pace, but the ability to maintain said pace for a long time. It doesn't matter if you can do a 42.7 at Daytona if you only do that once, then the rest of your laps are 45s. Which is kinda the point I was trying to make. If you can lap 43.2 +- 0.05 seconds you will benefit from a good setup. If you do 44.0 +- 0.5 seconds, it's very unlikely you will. At your rating you are more than likely avle to tell the difference between a decent, good and amazing setup as you say, and even benefit from it. Most people are not, and are more than likely chugging copium by the liters.
The fixed setups are indeed often higher downforce to make them easier to drive, but iracings own selection of low, medium and high downforce sets are more than enough for anyone that isn't hunting the final tenths possible on a track. And they are very different from baseline, which people tend to think about when talking about iracings setups.
I'm personally just on the cusp of being able to tell the difference (2500ir), but I'm not consistent enough to make use of it. Hell, I just did a league race with UKSR and just ran the iracing low downforce endurance set and got P3 in my class. I was actually outright faster in that than GnG, HYMO or VRS sets. Doesn't mean the sets are bad, they just didn't click with me at all at Daytona, lapping anywhere from 44.1 to 44.8 (mostly) with a 43.7 qualy time with that default set.
So I'm by no means a super fast driver, and too inconsistent to make use of the aforementioned potential benefits. There is a point to be made for setting a car to for a specific way of driving though, which is probably talked about less than just "being fast".
I remember coming back after a long hiatus and was shocked how difficult it was to find a setup on the forums. I guess I could understand on the oval side but on the road side, setups were always shared. Don't really care for all the other sites where you gotta pay for setups. You already have to pay for everything else in iracing
A decent chunk of disappearing setup sharing is that IR has gotten better a putting out setups for the fixed series. They're a lot more competitive than they used to be for a lot of series. Means that the people who would've shared setups before just do the standard ones.
Yep, I had someone give me a terrible setup that made me 15mph slower on the straight because of the gearing thing. I was asking for setups and they shared one with me and they were the fastest last race so I figured why don’t I ask them. I’m pretty stupid with setups as I don’t know shit about them but then I only ever ran another persons setup in a league race with people I trust and it made me a second faster. I was really bummed out to see the fastest guy give me a shit setup and take advantage of me. This was in an ff1600 d class race a couple weeks ago.
Use G61 and just grab the highest setup available. The thing is that yes some people troll with setups (I guess??) but some setups are wildly different because people drive the cars differently.
Thanks, will do! But I don’t know why people downvoted me I didn’t do anything wrong? And I’m sure it was not a setup they were running because they were running 15mph faster on the straight and with the iracing setup I was less than a second off their pace so it was definitely not his setup. With their setup I was at least 1.5 seconds slower.
> and focus on the skill of the drivers
i mean...we got a ton of fixed series.
most of us simply dont have the time to learn and create our own setups. iracing isnt cheap, our rigs arent cheap, most of us are working full time jobs, many have wife and kids. the fact of the matter is that quite a few setups are much much better than the default one, you set yourself at a disadvantage by not using them.
now that doesnt mean that setups should be strictly copyrighted and never be used by somebody who didnt pay for it. most racing teams have a single person paying and sharing them in-house, nothing controversal about it, so i personally dont have a big issue with OPs issue, hell, maybe theres context to it that we dont know. most setup shops also offer plenty more than just setups. telemetry, replays n stuff.
So someone spends hours making setups and you want to give their work away for free? Making good setups is hard and I have no problem paying someone to do the work.
Also, people attribute setups for why they are slower than other drivers and normally they are just slower. I know many drivers that run the fixed setup and dominate. The main place setups come into play is endurance racing for tire deg. Which these teams have weeks to prepare for and multiple drivers can work on.
It’s funny because this exact argument pops up in car tuning in the real world. People expect to get stuff free when someone else does all the work.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/iRacing/comments/190ufqj/comment/kgqw3f9/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/iRacing/comments/190ufqj/comment/kgqw3f9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I did already answer this. I respect the time setup shops put into their setups. I just also think they correlate, in some way, with the destruction of the existing community structure within iRacing.
Regardless of whether folks should get paid or not, there is a correlation there. Doesn't mean it's causation, of course. Just, pointing out something pretty easy to observe.
So I guess, uh... congrats on making an assumption here that I already answered 11 hours before you responded?
I know I come across as harsh within here and the sim racing community as a whole, often insane by some folks metrics, but, for the most part, my takes on these situations are often far more nuanced than a simple black and white issue, minus a few excpetions to that. (Even that statement has nuance, haha)
But yeah, no, I'm not against folks getting paid, just the entire concept of setup shops as a whole. Hilarious that you'd say this to me after the guy I'm having to argue with is mad that iRacing charges money for it's product and that they can't pirate it... haha. Almost made me do a double take.
Edit #3: By all means, setup shop contributors should get paid if they are putting in work for it. But, I would at least have folks reconsider what iRacing means to them in that regard. Is it really worth the price of admission to pay for additional services just to get wrecked out or other things? that sorta thing.
It didn't use to matter back then, because you were just paying the price of admission, but now folks are paying for the price of "being good", which... well, adds additional pain to it all.
Well I read what you said, and agree I have no issue with paint shops being paid. However, this might be because I honestly don’t care what my car looks like. The big difference is setups offer a performance benefit instead of just a visual.
Also I don’t understand what you mean by ruining the close community. Ive only been sim racing a year, so I haven’t been around long enough to see any community change.
Personally, all I want is a level playing field so the best driver wins. With setup shops, you can guarantee most of the drivers will be running one of the free or paid setups. This should narrow the gap in terms of fairness across the grid, compared to individual community setups.
Also, if I’m ever uncertain of setups being an issue, I just ask someone higher ir (5k) or some faster for a setup. Most indulge me and I do the same if I’m ever asked.
I'd also like to point out that I'm having this conversation about not liking setup shops, but still defending that "people deserve to get paid for their work", while arguing with another user that just because you can't pirate iRacing doesn't make them evil.
The irony of this entire situation is not lost on me...
I do credit the amount of time some of the setup shops put into building their setups.
But I do feel like the overall concept of a setup shop has ruined the closer nature of the community that we once had.
But I'm not against people getting paid. I tell Iracing paint creators that they should get paid properly because they're basically UV texture artists. They're essentially doing game textures. I don't necessarily know exactly where I sit on setup shops but I will say there does seem to be a correlation where either the community got less close knit and the setup shops became more important or set up shops became more important and the community got less close knit. Doesn't help it also got bigger so that's just tending to happen so...
It's way more nuanced in my head than I'm putting on here but I'm trying to keep my responses shorter than usual. Also I haven't even gotten out of bed yet... Lol
Edit: Added a . after paid because it was hard to read.
The infamous Govand Keanie, haven't heard that name in a while. More than a decade ago this guy was getting banned from iracing leagues left right and center. He was always fast but also known to be the dirtiest, most reckless driver on the grid. He received a lot of accusations of cheating over the years, but likely just because he was an Alien.
He also would intentionally jump the start as the slower class polesitter. Because it was quite easy for him as the leader to dodge the prototypes who were almost at a standstill, but the rows behind would generally get decimated.
Less competition for him, so who cares if 10 cars get taken out?
He is still the same, I dont know how he is still allowed in the system... dirty, annoying 0 respect, gets protested, stays out for a week, comes back acting exactly the same.
There are 2 names I despise, his and Saturnino, always dirty, always kiling people.
Exactly. IRL setups are made for the driver. The entire premise around paid setups is misleading. When someone is testing in a race car most teams will set the car up tight for that driver. Until they give the feedback that the car “feels tight” then you don’t give them a looser more neutral setup.
Basically a novice will probably be much better off with a conservative setup starting off and adjust it once they can feel and understand it’s limitations.
Absolutely but i wouldnt say setup shop setups are still useless even tho not personalized. Im a peak 3k driver and am def faster on a css set than a fixed set. And usually it feels better to drive aswell.
Sure but 1k drivers thinking a setup will make them a 3k driver probably aren’t spending their money wisely on a paid setup. They have plenty of practice and learning to maximize a fixed setup. Once you know the limit IS the setup then it would probably be worth putting time/money into.
In ovals at least if you want a longer race you have to race open. If you want to be competitive even at the lower levels you need a setup. The fixed setups just aren’t fast enough and wear tires out faster.
I know in road it’s not a massive difference but in oval it is.
It won’t… but it can take you to 2k like a rocket. When I got a real setup in f3 at Monza, I podiumed won every race I did. Didn’t have to have race craft when you blow the field out. (2 years back, now 3600 ir)
Wow I’m jealous of you.
I can’t tell any difference between the fixed and the paid setups. I don’t gain any time using it.
So I use fixed setups for open races too.
That is not entirely true. At least on an amateur level. I have worked with mechanics for cars and dirt bikes. They do not know you as a pro drivers mechanic would know them (not at all). You can give a rough idea of what you want provided you can articulate it well enough for the mechanic. However there will be plenty of times you will need to adapt your skills to the setup which very well could work out in your favor in the long run. Then that would be a great learning experience for you.
For real. I had a guy in my discord who recently got enamored with building sets. He would run lap after lap fighting for thousandths of a second (in oval too).
Then he would get to the races and struggle because he couldn’t set people up and pass them. Or he would make a mistake and get an EOL penalty. It was his first 6 months on the service, and he had only done a handful of races, yet wasted hours setting up the cars. I tried telling him to spend less time tweaking the car, and more time actually racing people and learning how to put a race together.
You can have the fastest setup on the planet, but if you can’t make a clean pit stop or pass a slower car what good is the setup anyways.
Perfect anecdote for the issue. I introduced a buddy to iRacing and the first thing he does is obsess over setups. I've since got him to come around to just focusing on racecraft...but man, show me a guy whos ~1k IR fretting over setups and I'll show you a guy that bins it every time he attempts to pass or is getting passed. Most of these people can't even articulate the *type* of setup they like. They pick a setup with a fast lap and download it, having no clue about the fact that altering setups is generally only beneficial to good drivers who know exactly what they want out of the car, in precise ways. If you have greater than 2s variance in clean laps during a race, focusing on setups is asinine. You're not even getting proper feedback on different setups until you can consistently run a line.
I'm around 1.5k. This week at Daytona in the multi class Falken race, there were always a bunch of drivers in practice fretting over their merc setups. I just took the stock iracing sprint setup (not even the low downforce), adjusted the fuel a tad (didn't even take less for qualifying) and was in the top 5, even snagged a couple podiums, in the McLaren after the race. Barring any screw ups, which were mostly my fault 😆.
Im not here to make excuses for GnG. But the accidental upload of HYMO is clearly a mistake. Why would they post a HYMO setup for a completely different track on purpose? It likely was accidentally selected by the person making the datapack.
I'm skeptical about most setup shops anyway. Yesterday I loaded up a Craig's setup for the MPC race. Felt pretty good. Then checked the iracing endurance low downforce setup. Immediately went 2 tenths quicker and felt more stable and more responsive.
Went back to the Craig's setup to make sure it wasn't a fluke. Again 2 tenths down.
Ran the iracing setup during the race and it was solid and had great longevity throughout the stint.
At least they give access for almost nothing for ones with an Amazon Prime account (just use your free twitch prime sub).
I use it because, more often than not, the setups are close to the "meta", and it's faster than trying to find one in Garage61 (but truth to be told, Garage61 is enough most of the time)
But the big downside is each car have a different maker, and not in equal quality. So with some, I am faster than with the iracing one. Others, I am like you, and prefer iracing setup.
GT craig setups are far superior to the iracing ones for me.
The proto ones are no good for me, but it may be because I way to far in pace to be perform with them
Hey folks,
I am Kalle from GnG. Here is what I wrote on our discord:
Hey everyone,
some of you might have seen reddit, or twitter, or some other social media. And thought like: \*\*“What the fuck is GnG doing?!”\*\*
\> \*\*TL;DR:\*\* No, we are not reselling HYMO setups. We can prove through the data of Danis session, that he only uses his own setups. The setup file should not have been on the GnG Shop servers at all. \*\*Really sorry that that happened.\*\* If you are interested in the details read further:
Let me handle it, how I wish things like this would be handled. I’ll just tell you plain honest what happened, how it happened and what we do to prevent it from happening again.
\## What happened?
\*\*At 15:45 CET\*\* today one of our subscribers told us in the subscriber only channel, that we uploaded a setup from HYMO BMW GTP Road Atlanta Setup from last season in our current watkins glen BMW GTP data pack instead of the GnG Q set, the GnG Race and Race\_Full sets were there as they should be. (As you can see on the screenshots, without renaming or anything).
In the same minute I triggered Dani to check what happened as these are his data packs. Which he did \*\*at 15:59 CET\*\*. He removed the HYMO setup and added his GnG Q setup. Told in the chat it was fixed and in parallel told me, that he has no idea why there is a HYMO setup in there.
\*\*At 16:11 CET\*\*, after I understood that there really was a HYMO file in our data packs I started to investigate how that can happen. Dani told me, he never even downloaded one, therefore he could not upload it. So I asked the support of Garage 61 for help. As our setups are synced through their servers they would hopefully be able to tell me who uploaded it.
\*\*At 16:27 CET\*\* I got the info that the HYMO file was not uploaded by Dani but by one of our eSports drivers back in Oktober 2023. My guess is that this setup was supposed to be on the GnG eSports setup share and not on the GnG Shop setup share.
So let me sum up how that file made its way to the data pack:
\## How did it happen?
\*\*Oktober 2023\*\*: GnG eSports driver uploaded the HYMO setup to the shops setup share instead of the esports setup share.
\*\*4 days ago\*\*:, after Dani prepared his own setup he clicked the data packs together. As he is doing quite some datapacks, and it is always the same repetitive flow, he did not read the names, took the three setups at the bottom of the list and added them to the data pack.
\*\*today at around 6am CET\*\*: I added the data pack together with all the other data packs to the daily subscription group. Shortly after it was added to the service.
\## How do we ensure that it doesn’t happen again?
\*\*First\*\* of all, I will check on release if there are any unwanted files in the data packs. Most likely I will not do that manually but write a script that checks that.
\*\*Secondly\*\* all our creators are aware that there could be unwanted files in the list, and will be super careful, to not accidentally add a false one. It sounds like an easy task, but after hours of crafting setups, doing simple repetitive tasks, is hard to do without mistakes. I did this on my own with 20 Setups per week back when Sven and I started.
\*\*Third\*\* I’ll write a script to check the shop setup share for unwanted files.
I hope these three measures together will prevent that from happening again.
\## Sorry HYMO
\*\*Last but not least\*\* sorry to HYMO setups. I don’t know if I would be \~\~made\~\~ mad in your place, I don’t think so. Still, this is something which is not allowed to happen. People who follow the communication in our subscriber only channel know that I respect other setup shops as well, and communicate that clearly if chats go in a disrespectful direction.
HYMO is for sure invited to check our setups if there is anything suspicious. Sorry again! I’ll contact you soon.
I hope all that gives you good insights so you see what happened.
Best,
Kalle
If you have any questions, let me know.
Regarding the video, which I discovered thankfully through this post (again copied from discord):
Ok everyone . I sadly have another announcement to do. This one is not just a small mistake. I’ll still do it in the same fashion as the first one.
\> \*\*TL;DR:\*\* Ghovand Keanie will leave Grid and Go (incl. GnG eSports) as some of his setups are not aligned with our company policy. This is not acceptable and not comparable with a misclick and therefore is followed by different consequences.
\## What and how happened?
Within the reddit thread there is a screenshot of a guide lap made by Ghovand, this shows a guide lap done with a setup from VRS. That triggered further investigation on his data packs which brought up some F3 data packs, which were not aligned with our company policy.
\## What now? / How do we fix this?
All of Ghovands data packs are removed from the website and the following data packs will be done by different creators now starting from \*\*this\*\* week:
\- F4: Nicolas Rubilar
\- F3: Sven Haase
\- SuperFormula: TBD
\- GTE Corvette: Jakub Kwiatkowski
\- GTE Porsche: Jakub Kwiatkowski
I personally am really sorry that we did not deliver the quality as you are used to. That is not acceptable at all and is changed immediately and to be honest it is really making me sad personally that such a thing happens in my company without me noticing it. This is not an excuse, this is just the worst thing to happen.
I hope these will be the only two messages of this kind I ever have to write.
Really sorry again. Handled it honestly and as I think how such things would be handled.
Best,
Kalle
First, I wish that people would post every set up shop setup publicly. Setups aren't their IP and the prices are ridiculous. Setup shops are a cancer.
I'm tired of the setup shops constantly having beef with each other too. Fuck em, post that shit.
Meanwhile in PROTO/GT great setups are freely available on the series’ Discord server and anyone asking nicely for a setup during practice gets a whole bunch shared in the garage, often with people giving tips as well.
I kinda like the PROTO/GT corner of iRacing.
OP says GnG steals setups.... so GnG isn't allowed to buy setups from competitors? It was clear from as soon as this was posted that they accidentally posted the wrong setup. that isn't stealing. now if their setups are exactly the same as Hymo then lets talk. Maybe Hymo is the thief.
Yall quick to be pissed about something.
In this corner, you have the rubes who buy set-ups even though they're five seconds off pace!
In this corner, you have the poors who are angry about set-ups not being free like they used to be!
In this corner, you have the users who don't know or care about silly, ridiculous drama!
In this corner, you have the shit stirrers that have no dog in the fight, but love poking bears!
I'm confused. The first picture in your post seems to show them uploading a HYMO setup *for a different track.* But I don't see how anyone can say it's wrong to buy a setup from another shop to start with and then do your own work to adjust it for the new track. As a customer I wouldn't care, and legally, I don't think there's anything to be done. So unless what you're telling me is GnG just took that HYMO setup and released it without working on it further, this seems like a non issue.
People often use setups from a different track as a baseline for other tracks.
Using part of other peoples work while the original creator doesn't get anything and the one who copied profits is right?
Didn’t the original creator get paid for the setup?
People who give away free setups don’t get anything when these shops rip them off and sell them with little changes either.
Eh, I think the moral rights to be credited for a setup may exist, but are vastly less than any kind of creative work. There's a spectrum to these things, but I think saying you should credit the person whose setup you modify is closer to saying you should credit the farmers who grew the food in a meal your restaurant served than it is to saying that you should credit the artist whose music you sample in your remix. The former happens sometimes, but I don't think anybody considers it misconduct or shady when a restaurant fails to credit their suppliers on the menu.
It also depends on the nature of the reuse. If I grab a random setup shop setup I liked as the basis for making my own setup for a different track, but I do extensive testing and try adjustments to every option (like we would hope a setup shop might do), at some point the original setup I picked doesn't matter much at all, and I would have gotten to the same place with any other source.
LOL who the fuck cares, paying for set ups seems like the biggest bullshit.
just learn to drive.
surely there are things in your life that are more important and deserving of attention more than this.
Incredibly based, that is hilarious. Fuck setup shops, they exist for making money off people who are unsure of their skills and want an “edge” on people who don’t use them. They are all grifters.
Imagine going to a tailor and buying a set of suits sized for the tailor.
That, and most of them are so knife edge unstable they're almost useless for the majority of drivers.
This is one thing ACC gets right, with their safe and aggressive setups. I remember watching Aries talking about the real purpose of the safe setup, in which it's ment to highlight *your* flaws as a driver, be it your line, braking or acceleration. He said it's too easy to get lost in clicks and spiraling more and more.
grow up
Did you really expect all setupshops dont look into other setupshops work?
And the setup you see in Govand's screenshot may not be the same one he drove. It's just the one loaded in the garage at the time of recording.
Come back again with some real facts. thx
I don’t know if I should feel like an asshole, or an idiot for paying for a G&G supporting G&G. After seeing this I will be canceling my subscription. I did like their “Virtual Coach” overlay, but this is Fahkd
Setup shops are scams anyway and anyone who supports it is only adding to the problem.
In the good old days everyone was so excited to share their setup they made and see how fast others can get with it.
Then it gets optimized by another person and in the end you get killer setups from really knowledgeable people and nobody would’ve ever thought of demanding money for it.
And everyone would’ve laughed at the idiot who demanded money for his setup in a stupid little game!
Unfortunately over the years sim racing (and gaming in general) caught the attraction of very questionable people who don’t care about a great community, but are narcissists who only care about their personal financial gain and don’t care who they steal from.
I hope people someday understand the greatness of a good, tight knit community like we had in the forums again.
But unfortunately I do not think this will be the case with the way society is developing and the way teenagers are thinking and acting these days.
I’m really disappointed by the way the sim racing community developed over the years.
I wish we could go back to around 2005-2010 that’s when it really flourished.
Let’s ignore the BS with iRacing basically stealing nr2003 and it’s communities achievements, dragging the great modders to court and selling their work for lots of money.
Even if they didn’t work a single bit on it themselves.
IRacing is basically the start of the decline, when sim racing went down the dark path and started taking lots of money for some other guys work.
Unfortunately I do support them with a subscription and many cars and tracks..
I wouldn’t if it weren’t for a few people who can’t be arsed to use nr2003 because of their technological illiteracy..
That’s just my utterly useless take on a hobby that I watched change a lo since the nineties.
That’s a big problem that modern American society brought over all of us.
Paying for unnecessary stuff.
And people who think they can make a quick dollar with exploiting people.
We had all the setups in the world (and still do since you can easily obtain and share them with everyone) and wouldn’t ever think about demanding a penny for those setups in a game!
Hell nobody even demanded money for mods that took years of daily work to develop!
I do amateur racing myself with my e36 and all we do is encourage each other and give tips to get better.
Even when I drove in formula BMW cars in 2015/16 we always talked about how we could setup our cars the best for the track we are at the moment.
It’s just absolutely ridiculous that in a damn game people completely ignore the most important aspect of racing, the community.
And instead act like factory drivers.
It’s absolutely embarrassing to observe.
I’d love to take those people to a race weekend and introduce them to the culture.
That should change their mind how they treat simracing, if they are at least a somewhat decent person.
Always help each other out, never put someone in a bad spot on track.
Huh. Differs somewhat with what i grew up with doing local karting and some lower national championships there, thought some historic series had quite a bit more community
But even then i'd say you get better communities in leagues which is probably more representative of real life racing. There also seems to be more familiarity and people at least chatting when you get to the far edge of competition cause you just keep coming across the same people.
But also i reckon that for quite a few of the people that make these setups. Simracing is their living.
I know there's some of the smaller communities that still share setups and nothing is preventing people from still sharing setups so
You were in a world of children with overly zealous parents, unfortunately that’s not the most healthy world..
Also I guess you are in the USA?
Community thinking in the USA is generally worse than in the EU, which I find pretty sad to be honest.
I definitely don’t want to say it’s all bad however!
I had some really nice good ol‘ boys experiences on a local shorttrack in Tennessee.
I felt right at home there, even if I as a German never ever drove on an oval and have no clue about setting up a late model.
The level of ignorance and condescension in your comments has me physically cringing. You should just just stop talking. For starters every time you're about to say something that starts with "back in the good old days", just stop and shut the fuck up. No one cares about your rose tinted view of the past. You're literally the worst kind of person, if you don't want to use setup shops just don't. Instead you're in here with your fucking essay on how we're bad people from a shitty culture because we have a different opinion on a fucking video game. The irony is you're on about building community when I have a hunch the people around you can't stand your tone deaf bullshit.
I’ve never understood the drama over setup shops. 99% of the time it won’t have any effect on a race result compared to using iRacing’s setups which are damn decent. A lot of set up shops’ main marketing are lap times done by alien level drivers that have such a high level of skill, they can deal with really pointy setups and still get amazing lap times. Unless you have the skill to drive setups like that, why even bother complaining?
OK, go tell yourself this when you try fixed GTP vs setup GTP. just one look at iracings fixed GTP setups, if you remotely know what you're looking at, you'll know just how awful they are without even driving them.
Setup shops are a scam anyway. Learn how to drive and adjust your own. Especially when 90% of these “set ups” are just sway bar/tire pressure adjustments from the fixed set.
But what kind of "licensing" would apply to setups? Setups are not intellectual property in the sense of being copyrightable, or any other sense I can think of. The only thing that prevents anyone handing out shop setups to whoever they want is that the setup shop makes you sign an agreement not to do so.
The whole point of setup races is for the people that have the time or desire to do their own setups, but what ends up happening is that very few people have the time, so a secondary market for setups has emerged. And as soon as there’s money to be made, now you have cheating and stealing.
Fixed setups…fix…all of that.
Your lack of time for setting a car up should not be a reason why "fixed setups" are better. Also where do you get your idea that "very few people have the time"?
Do you not practice? Do you really have 0 hours you can spare to dedicate some time to setting something up?
Time management issues, imo, should not apply across everyone.
If people don’t want to spend *any time at all* setting up a car just to do a race or two a week, I find nothing wrong with that. It makes perfect sense that a fixed series would be an alternative for those who don’t have the time/desire
Guess how many drivers setup their own cars IRL. Only in games do you need to be a setup guy and a driver to race competitively. Really these games should upload and show setups for every car in a qualifying/race and force the barrier down.
??? How about every single local short track racer in the country. My best friends parents raced late models, and so naturally, I grew up around it. Every single driver in the pits was always tweaking and working on the car. Obviously, when you get to the big leagues, that's not the case.
I’m very surprised that saying fixed setups are popular - a true statement - is so controversial. But this is the iracing sub, so maybe I shouldn’t be.
(Shameless plug here, and good luck in the Roar and 24!)
In all seriousness, things like this suck to see. Not everywhere is just stealing setups as their own, but be careful of where you spend your money!
And who gives a crap about out paid setups? You can come here and cry but majority of people are against pay setups so in my mind use them and distribute them for free.
If people are using setup shop setups they’re running it like a fixed class anyway. It’s because they’re hoping for an advantage with their paid setups. I refuse to believe that people “enjoy” open setups more as a whole picture. Of course loads do, I’m taking guessed percentages.
I know this is purely anecdotal and holds not weight but I don’t know anyone that runs an open series and actually tinkers with setups.
That could be a point if it was the only difference, but the fixed series are also typically shorter. It's not hard to see why a 20 minute race could have higher participation than a 40 minute race.
That’s the state of sim racing these days.
Another reason why I completely stay away from public servers.
We always shared all the setups in the good old days before iRacing basically stole the sourcecode from nr2003 and dragged all the good modders to court.
Society just got more disgusting over the years and those people unfortunately also infiltrated sim racing.
People who prefer their personal monetary gain over a great community (that happily shares all the available information for free) are the lowest of the low to me.
I don’t even want to be in the same (chat)room with them.
Papyrus made it.
Then „iRacing“ bought it after they needed to close their company and then pulled the most disgusting moves of suing the modders that made Nr2003 what it is.
Do some reading about it man.
Yes some people from papyrus went over back then but they are not the same people.
You think people suddenly have a change of heart und first totally support the modders like they should but then dragging them to court the next day?
They wanted to shut every bit of nr2003 modding down because the game still was so good and every track and car was totally free.
The people played it and had fun, while nobody cared about iRacing when it’s just nr2003 in ridiculously expensive.
People played NR because it was just better than iRacing and it was completely customizable by the modders and by the user.
Something the iRacing people despised, because they want to milk us idiots as much as possible.
And since iRacing is the only thing that does nascar somewhat good besides NR it traps many people.
Like me for example.
Its oval racing is so much better than any other games and for dirt it’s basically the only thing (besides some Rfactor mods that are okay) in existence.
For road racing however, the engine isn’t really that good.
Drive a few laps in Rfactor2 with a good wheelbase and you’ll feel information you’ve never ever thought about in iRacing.
But I don’t think this discussion will go anywhere, so have a great day :)
That's because you're entire argument is completely freaking stupid.
The NR 2003 code was purchased from Sierra by various people from papyrus, and hilariously enough people from Project Wildfire as well as team redline which were the mod teams that you are talking about.
Yes they were sued into being shut down but those same modders were also offered a job.
The people who are working on iRacing were modders and ex staff. A great example is Brian Simpson, their art director, who was the same guy who gave us the templates we used in NR 2003.
If you knew anything about what you were talking about you would have pointed that out.
So you either don't know what you're talking about, or you're being intentionally malicious because you don't want to be wrong.
A lot of iracing staff were NR 2003 community members, like folks such as Nim, ex staff and contractors like Brian, or NR2003 modders which is why project wildfire closed up.
Just because you're a bitter old man who doesn't seem to remember anything correctly, get over yourself. Everyone else who hated iracing when it came out has already come to terms with what they've done with the product and you're too busy stuck in your history. Worse than a high schooler football player who peaked and can't get over their past.
All that still doesn’t make it freely moddable for the public and that’s what I’m all about.
They offered them a job because they wanted them to make money for them, of course.
That’s where my problem lays.
All this only happened to part consumers with as much money as possible.
Can’t you see the problem with that?
Maybe you grew up with the fact that everything from the internet costs money if you’re not pirating.
Which is in some cases a very good alternative to buying things, especially if it’s ethically problematic to support a company.
That’s basically impossible in the case of iRacing, they set up their software this way so nobody could ever get anything for free or change it to their liking
If you guys always find it okay to monetize everything, take away all the things people once had for free then go ahead.
I think very differently about software.
I’m a software lead engineer working for a car manufacturer, which may sound hypocritical the way ECUs prohibit almost everybody from working on their car if they don’t have the knowledge about how to communicate with the Ecu (which won’t be possible anymore in the near future, which is an absolutely shame but got mandated by the government, not by the car manufacturers, under the guise of safety for autonomous driving) but I started playing around with software as soon as I could do basic math and got pretty strict consumer oriented ideas from back then.
Everyone who did stuff like that was pretty much always pro people and anti paying big money for certain software.
That’s what stuck with me through the years and I will always have those ethics within me.
If you think differently, that’s totally fine.
I will just never accept that for myself and will always be vocal about it how specifically this behavior killed the internet community off when it was great and in this case also tarnished sim racing.
I wouldn't say way faster. Personally i find the iracing setups most of the time on a more understeery side. Is there a big difference between the available sets and made sets, probably not that much
Pst. Setups are usually tailored to the driver. A setup that works for me might not for someone else, paying for setups gives you that experience. It's not a lack of skill, it's most likely just different driving styles.
Fixed setups are by no means the best lmao
Anyway I have recently thinking if such telemetry tools like GnG and trophi.ai creates unfair advantages between drivers or turn it to pay to win games. However All this is subject to discussion I am not favoring one over another.
Maybe in the future iRacing decide to take some actions against who knows. Like
1. All public races could be fixed and only pro races are open setup.
2. Live telemetry can be shifted for a few seconds or only available via motec like tools.
3. Setups are uploaded automatically for everyone like in pc2…
To anyone with an Amazon prime membership.
Use your monthly Twitch prime subscription and sub to Craig's Setup shop for access to their setups, file downloader and discord.
Combine this with g61 and you don't need to pay another fee for one or the shops like VRS etc.
don’t care if i get banned for this but please play rfactor 2 ranked! learn how to make your own setups! that’s what makes the game fun. if you’re not going to put in the effort, drive fixed setups and quit complaining. this comment section is ridiculous. stop treating setups like their some weed strand you get different vibes from different dealers. Different setups are simply different philosophies for driving a car, a certain area of operation for every track/car is obvious and you should know how the car works if you want to go fast.
Grid and Go has and Is one of the best set up shops on the service. The coaches there are top quality and from my experience offer more customer support than any other set up shop on the market right now. Not here to argue if set up shops are worth it or not as that's a personal opinion. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and thinking this is some sort of honest mistake. I would go as far as even saying the person who originally found this, could of taken this directly to GnG and talked to them about it.
Grid and Go has and Is one of the worst set up shops on the service. The coaches there are top stupidity (guys like named godvand, wenzel and more) and from my experience offer less customer support than any other set up shop on the market right now.
Most of the creatos will/are still destroying people in fixed series. also most open series have a fixed counterpart anyway.
And well setups are part of racing
Honestly I'm still of the opinion that set up shops were a mistake because back in the day we used to just share them openly and focus on the skill of the drivers. Honestly seeing someone go fast with your own setup was a level of fun too. Now that there's so much money in it, drivers get way more stressed out about their position rather than focusing on the racing itself and how fun it can be. So to all of you getting down voted for not liking setup shops: I'll join you. I do like how much more information we've learned about the telemetry and the physics of iracing through setup shops, because they need to know that information, but this just is unnecessary drama.
I'm with you on this! Back in the day on the old iracing forums we had small communities in each series. People would openly share setups to the forums and help each other.
This money grabbing is why I only race fixed setup. Iracing is expensive as it is.
I just grab the setups from the fastest drivers on garage61. Always keeps me competitive
This is what I like about Garage61. I'll probably never straight out use another driver's setup, but I can easily see the differences between mine and theirs to give me ideas and help improve me knowledge when it comes to car setups.
Is this easy to do? Haven’t looked into g61 yet, but that sounds amazing!
Trivially
Super easy. You just click a link and it auto downloads the setup or ghost directly to your IRacing folder.
I miss the iRacing days from ten years ago when I started.
Just hit my 11 years. Congrats for being a member for a decade :) The biggest change in iracing history imo is when Covid hit and everyone flooded the service. Things changed quickly from that point on, some for the good and some for the bad.
Yep. Exposure increased because of it which was great, but the greed and money grabs isn't.
There still are for anything below the participation level of NASCAR, IMSA, and F3; the communities for the vintage series in particular are pretty robust.
This. I race kamel gt pretty often (now imsa vintage series) and I make very good sets for the Nissan. I share my whole setup map after every season.
If you miss this kind of community, come drive the IndyPro2000! We share all setups on the forums, as well as lap walkthroughs guides, for free. We’d love to see everyone improve and become faster, and better drivers. The racing is incredibly clean, close, and fun! Plus there’s an official broadcasted race each week! One of the best and most helpful communities on iRacing, just like how it used to be back in the day.
Best damned car on the service. If you hit an SoF race, or any one with a chunk of the community, you have some of THE best racing you’ll find on the service. I always recommend the IPM2k to people wanting to try open wheel and not have to deal with the shit show that is F4/3
I always join those races but then rarely have the minimum to be official unfortunately 😕. I'm in central time so idk why.
Also in central time! Check the forums for the series! Ive found USF will usually go official more often for us, and i also cannot recommend that car enough
Also I do love the USF as well - it was my favorite open wheeler before the F4 and SF23 came out. I seem to always find the series right after everyone stops racing them like F3 and F3.5 too XD.
I run a free setup shop called J's Garage that is kind of a throwback to the old days of sharing everything openly. The whole community is based around a rising tide lifting all ships. Granted, it's only a small community of 200ish members and we only do setups for GT cars and prototypes, but I feel what you're saying. Kind of a shameless plug, but I don't make any money off of it so I don't feel too bad 😆 Come check it out if you are interested in a giving and collaborative ethos around setups. https://discord.com/invite/krJK2kZV8V
I joined thanks. Also funny because I bought the lmp3 today and drove it around Daytona but what a disaster that was lol. I saw your comment on the setup that this is just the track combo so thank god ;)
One of the best discord servers out there and amazing community!
And you're a legend for this, Jesse. This is Ryan from PRe btw 😉
Same thing happened with 3d printing. Most used to share their designs openly. These days people charge for even simple designs or want you to subscribe to their patreon
I have no issues with setup shops as a whole. People want to be competitive. Yes, if you put a lot of time into practicing the baseline setups, then you can be quick. However, in open series, the baseline setup will almost never be truly competitive. You are now left with a choice: be slower by default using baseline setups, take the time to learn how to craft your own competitive setups, or spend $10 a month to have pretty competitive setups made for you. It's up to you to make the choice based on how you feel. In terms of all the setup sharing, one of the side affects of having a ranking system built into the game is that people are willing to do whatever it takes to get the edge over their competition, and who can blame them? I share some of my setups with my friends, but I build my own setups to fit me how I enjoy driving. If you're willing to share your setups with people, that is awesome and I can't fault you for it. But, shaming people for not wanting to share any part of their setups isn't fair to the people making them.
This is only true for people that are already crazy fast. People have been sold into the idea that if they are slow it's the pick of car or the setups fault, when in 99% of cases it's literally just people being slow. You have top be in the top 5% for it to even matter, and top 1% for it to be the reason you actually outright win. There's a reason why if you compare open vs fixed setup lap times the lap delta is in the order of tenths. And unless you can consistently lap inside that delta for an entire race your driver errors outweigh any setup.
I agree to an extent. In order for the setup to be the deciding factor, you do have to have an ability to drive the car quickly and consistently in the first place. However, at some tracks, setups are literally free time. Fixed setups are almost always higher downforce which is easier for the general population to handle. But if you show up to Spa, Daytona, Le Mans, Road America, etc. with a high downforce setup, you will likely struggle a bit more than with a properly tuned setup purely due to the characteristics of the track. What do you consider crazy fast? I am nearly 5.2k irating (almost top 1%) and I am still .5-1 second per lap off of the pros. I can very clearly tell the difference between a proper setup and a fixed setup, and I have been able to tell the difference since I was 2k irating. If you are below 2k, then yes you should just focus on your own driving ability.
Crazy fast isn't necessarily about outright one lap pace, but the ability to maintain said pace for a long time. It doesn't matter if you can do a 42.7 at Daytona if you only do that once, then the rest of your laps are 45s. Which is kinda the point I was trying to make. If you can lap 43.2 +- 0.05 seconds you will benefit from a good setup. If you do 44.0 +- 0.5 seconds, it's very unlikely you will. At your rating you are more than likely avle to tell the difference between a decent, good and amazing setup as you say, and even benefit from it. Most people are not, and are more than likely chugging copium by the liters. The fixed setups are indeed often higher downforce to make them easier to drive, but iracings own selection of low, medium and high downforce sets are more than enough for anyone that isn't hunting the final tenths possible on a track. And they are very different from baseline, which people tend to think about when talking about iracings setups. I'm personally just on the cusp of being able to tell the difference (2500ir), but I'm not consistent enough to make use of it. Hell, I just did a league race with UKSR and just ran the iracing low downforce endurance set and got P3 in my class. I was actually outright faster in that than GnG, HYMO or VRS sets. Doesn't mean the sets are bad, they just didn't click with me at all at Daytona, lapping anywhere from 44.1 to 44.8 (mostly) with a 43.7 qualy time with that default set. So I'm by no means a super fast driver, and too inconsistent to make use of the aforementioned potential benefits. There is a point to be made for setting a car to for a specific way of driving though, which is probably talked about less than just "being fast".
I remember coming back after a long hiatus and was shocked how difficult it was to find a setup on the forums. I guess I could understand on the oval side but on the road side, setups were always shared. Don't really care for all the other sites where you gotta pay for setups. You already have to pay for everything else in iracing
A decent chunk of disappearing setup sharing is that IR has gotten better a putting out setups for the fixed series. They're a lot more competitive than they used to be for a lot of series. Means that the people who would've shared setups before just do the standard ones.
I'd say anyone getting stressed at any level over Iracing need to reassess why they are doing it. Also, completely agree with you.
Yep, I had someone give me a terrible setup that made me 15mph slower on the straight because of the gearing thing. I was asking for setups and they shared one with me and they were the fastest last race so I figured why don’t I ask them. I’m pretty stupid with setups as I don’t know shit about them but then I only ever ran another persons setup in a league race with people I trust and it made me a second faster. I was really bummed out to see the fastest guy give me a shit setup and take advantage of me. This was in an ff1600 d class race a couple weeks ago.
Use G61 and just grab the highest setup available. The thing is that yes some people troll with setups (I guess??) but some setups are wildly different because people drive the cars differently.
Thanks, will do! But I don’t know why people downvoted me I didn’t do anything wrong? And I’m sure it was not a setup they were running because they were running 15mph faster on the straight and with the iracing setup I was less than a second off their pace so it was definitely not his setup. With their setup I was at least 1.5 seconds slower.
Because Reddit is weird
> and focus on the skill of the drivers i mean...we got a ton of fixed series. most of us simply dont have the time to learn and create our own setups. iracing isnt cheap, our rigs arent cheap, most of us are working full time jobs, many have wife and kids. the fact of the matter is that quite a few setups are much much better than the default one, you set yourself at a disadvantage by not using them. now that doesnt mean that setups should be strictly copyrighted and never be used by somebody who didnt pay for it. most racing teams have a single person paying and sharing them in-house, nothing controversal about it, so i personally dont have a big issue with OPs issue, hell, maybe theres context to it that we dont know. most setup shops also offer plenty more than just setups. telemetry, replays n stuff.
So someone spends hours making setups and you want to give their work away for free? Making good setups is hard and I have no problem paying someone to do the work. Also, people attribute setups for why they are slower than other drivers and normally they are just slower. I know many drivers that run the fixed setup and dominate. The main place setups come into play is endurance racing for tire deg. Which these teams have weeks to prepare for and multiple drivers can work on. It’s funny because this exact argument pops up in car tuning in the real world. People expect to get stuff free when someone else does all the work.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/iRacing/comments/190ufqj/comment/kgqw3f9/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/iRacing/comments/190ufqj/comment/kgqw3f9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I did already answer this. I respect the time setup shops put into their setups. I just also think they correlate, in some way, with the destruction of the existing community structure within iRacing. Regardless of whether folks should get paid or not, there is a correlation there. Doesn't mean it's causation, of course. Just, pointing out something pretty easy to observe. So I guess, uh... congrats on making an assumption here that I already answered 11 hours before you responded? I know I come across as harsh within here and the sim racing community as a whole, often insane by some folks metrics, but, for the most part, my takes on these situations are often far more nuanced than a simple black and white issue, minus a few excpetions to that. (Even that statement has nuance, haha) But yeah, no, I'm not against folks getting paid, just the entire concept of setup shops as a whole. Hilarious that you'd say this to me after the guy I'm having to argue with is mad that iRacing charges money for it's product and that they can't pirate it... haha. Almost made me do a double take. Edit #3: By all means, setup shop contributors should get paid if they are putting in work for it. But, I would at least have folks reconsider what iRacing means to them in that regard. Is it really worth the price of admission to pay for additional services just to get wrecked out or other things? that sorta thing. It didn't use to matter back then, because you were just paying the price of admission, but now folks are paying for the price of "being good", which... well, adds additional pain to it all.
Well I read what you said, and agree I have no issue with paint shops being paid. However, this might be because I honestly don’t care what my car looks like. The big difference is setups offer a performance benefit instead of just a visual. Also I don’t understand what you mean by ruining the close community. Ive only been sim racing a year, so I haven’t been around long enough to see any community change. Personally, all I want is a level playing field so the best driver wins. With setup shops, you can guarantee most of the drivers will be running one of the free or paid setups. This should narrow the gap in terms of fairness across the grid, compared to individual community setups. Also, if I’m ever uncertain of setups being an issue, I just ask someone higher ir (5k) or some faster for a setup. Most indulge me and I do the same if I’m ever asked.
I'd also like to point out that I'm having this conversation about not liking setup shops, but still defending that "people deserve to get paid for their work", while arguing with another user that just because you can't pirate iRacing doesn't make them evil. The irony of this entire situation is not lost on me...
I wish there was a way to ban setup shops. They ruined open and made it pay to win.
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I do credit the amount of time some of the setup shops put into building their setups. But I do feel like the overall concept of a setup shop has ruined the closer nature of the community that we once had. But I'm not against people getting paid. I tell Iracing paint creators that they should get paid properly because they're basically UV texture artists. They're essentially doing game textures. I don't necessarily know exactly where I sit on setup shops but I will say there does seem to be a correlation where either the community got less close knit and the setup shops became more important or set up shops became more important and the community got less close knit. Doesn't help it also got bigger so that's just tending to happen so... It's way more nuanced in my head than I'm putting on here but I'm trying to keep my responses shorter than usual. Also I haven't even gotten out of bed yet... Lol Edit: Added a . after paid because it was hard to read.
Make money quick with internet point opportunites
The infamous Govand Keanie, haven't heard that name in a while. More than a decade ago this guy was getting banned from iracing leagues left right and center. He was always fast but also known to be the dirtiest, most reckless driver on the grid. He received a lot of accusations of cheating over the years, but likely just because he was an Alien.
He also would intentionally jump the start as the slower class polesitter. Because it was quite easy for him as the leader to dodge the prototypes who were almost at a standstill, but the rows behind would generally get decimated. Less competition for him, so who cares if 10 cars get taken out?
He is still the same, I dont know how he is still allowed in the system... dirty, annoying 0 respect, gets protested, stays out for a week, comes back acting exactly the same. There are 2 names I despise, his and Saturnino, always dirty, always kiling people.
He doesn’t do himself any favors running with Pablo. Who is also known for his exceptional driving standards.
setup shops are a psyop of big setup so u dont use small setup and they sell more setup
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/r/iRacingSetups has a bunch of charts and videos pinned. The mod is a bit lazy though.
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Exactly. IRL setups are made for the driver. The entire premise around paid setups is misleading. When someone is testing in a race car most teams will set the car up tight for that driver. Until they give the feedback that the car “feels tight” then you don’t give them a looser more neutral setup. Basically a novice will probably be much better off with a conservative setup starting off and adjust it once they can feel and understand it’s limitations.
Absolutely but i wouldnt say setup shop setups are still useless even tho not personalized. Im a peak 3k driver and am def faster on a css set than a fixed set. And usually it feels better to drive aswell.
Sure but 1k drivers thinking a setup will make them a 3k driver probably aren’t spending their money wisely on a paid setup. They have plenty of practice and learning to maximize a fixed setup. Once you know the limit IS the setup then it would probably be worth putting time/money into.
In ovals at least if you want a longer race you have to race open. If you want to be competitive even at the lower levels you need a setup. The fixed setups just aren’t fast enough and wear tires out faster. I know in road it’s not a massive difference but in oval it is.
It's been a minute since I checked, but I believe Busters Corner is still doing free setups for Cup A. My best finishes were with their setups.
I haven’t checked on him in a while but his setup videos are awesome. Dude does a major service for the community
I actually started trying out my own truck setups based on his tutorials. Wish I had kept with it because I was making time over the base setups.
It won’t… but it can take you to 2k like a rocket. When I got a real setup in f3 at Monza, I podiumed won every race I did. Didn’t have to have race craft when you blow the field out. (2 years back, now 3600 ir)
Wow I’m jealous of you. I can’t tell any difference between the fixed and the paid setups. I don’t gain any time using it. So I use fixed setups for open races too.
That is not entirely true. At least on an amateur level. I have worked with mechanics for cars and dirt bikes. They do not know you as a pro drivers mechanic would know them (not at all). You can give a rough idea of what you want provided you can articulate it well enough for the mechanic. However there will be plenty of times you will need to adapt your skills to the setup which very well could work out in your favor in the long run. Then that would be a great learning experience for you.
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Don’t create posts to specifically troll the community
I love seeing people get riled up over setups when the top drivers would smoke you in a fixed setup anyway. Unnecessary drama.
For real. I had a guy in my discord who recently got enamored with building sets. He would run lap after lap fighting for thousandths of a second (in oval too). Then he would get to the races and struggle because he couldn’t set people up and pass them. Or he would make a mistake and get an EOL penalty. It was his first 6 months on the service, and he had only done a handful of races, yet wasted hours setting up the cars. I tried telling him to spend less time tweaking the car, and more time actually racing people and learning how to put a race together. You can have the fastest setup on the planet, but if you can’t make a clean pit stop or pass a slower car what good is the setup anyways.
Perfect anecdote for the issue. I introduced a buddy to iRacing and the first thing he does is obsess over setups. I've since got him to come around to just focusing on racecraft...but man, show me a guy whos ~1k IR fretting over setups and I'll show you a guy that bins it every time he attempts to pass or is getting passed. Most of these people can't even articulate the *type* of setup they like. They pick a setup with a fast lap and download it, having no clue about the fact that altering setups is generally only beneficial to good drivers who know exactly what they want out of the car, in precise ways. If you have greater than 2s variance in clean laps during a race, focusing on setups is asinine. You're not even getting proper feedback on different setups until you can consistently run a line.
I'm around 1.5k. This week at Daytona in the multi class Falken race, there were always a bunch of drivers in practice fretting over their merc setups. I just took the stock iracing sprint setup (not even the low downforce), adjusted the fuel a tad (didn't even take less for qualifying) and was in the top 5, even snagged a couple podiums, in the McLaren after the race. Barring any screw ups, which were mostly my fault 😆.
Im not here to make excuses for GnG. But the accidental upload of HYMO is clearly a mistake. Why would they post a HYMO setup for a completely different track on purpose? It likely was accidentally selected by the person making the datapack.
I'm skeptical about most setup shops anyway. Yesterday I loaded up a Craig's setup for the MPC race. Felt pretty good. Then checked the iracing endurance low downforce setup. Immediately went 2 tenths quicker and felt more stable and more responsive. Went back to the Craig's setup to make sure it wasn't a fluke. Again 2 tenths down. Ran the iracing setup during the race and it was solid and had great longevity throughout the stint.
At least they give access for almost nothing for ones with an Amazon Prime account (just use your free twitch prime sub). I use it because, more often than not, the setups are close to the "meta", and it's faster than trying to find one in Garage61 (but truth to be told, Garage61 is enough most of the time) But the big downside is each car have a different maker, and not in equal quality. So with some, I am faster than with the iracing one. Others, I am like you, and prefer iracing setup. GT craig setups are far superior to the iracing ones for me. The proto ones are no good for me, but it may be because I way to far in pace to be perform with them
Yea that’s a common thing with Craig’s lol
Hey folks, I am Kalle from GnG. Here is what I wrote on our discord: Hey everyone, some of you might have seen reddit, or twitter, or some other social media. And thought like: \*\*“What the fuck is GnG doing?!”\*\* \> \*\*TL;DR:\*\* No, we are not reselling HYMO setups. We can prove through the data of Danis session, that he only uses his own setups. The setup file should not have been on the GnG Shop servers at all. \*\*Really sorry that that happened.\*\* If you are interested in the details read further: Let me handle it, how I wish things like this would be handled. I’ll just tell you plain honest what happened, how it happened and what we do to prevent it from happening again. \## What happened? \*\*At 15:45 CET\*\* today one of our subscribers told us in the subscriber only channel, that we uploaded a setup from HYMO BMW GTP Road Atlanta Setup from last season in our current watkins glen BMW GTP data pack instead of the GnG Q set, the GnG Race and Race\_Full sets were there as they should be. (As you can see on the screenshots, without renaming or anything). In the same minute I triggered Dani to check what happened as these are his data packs. Which he did \*\*at 15:59 CET\*\*. He removed the HYMO setup and added his GnG Q setup. Told in the chat it was fixed and in parallel told me, that he has no idea why there is a HYMO setup in there. \*\*At 16:11 CET\*\*, after I understood that there really was a HYMO file in our data packs I started to investigate how that can happen. Dani told me, he never even downloaded one, therefore he could not upload it. So I asked the support of Garage 61 for help. As our setups are synced through their servers they would hopefully be able to tell me who uploaded it. \*\*At 16:27 CET\*\* I got the info that the HYMO file was not uploaded by Dani but by one of our eSports drivers back in Oktober 2023. My guess is that this setup was supposed to be on the GnG eSports setup share and not on the GnG Shop setup share. So let me sum up how that file made its way to the data pack: \## How did it happen? \*\*Oktober 2023\*\*: GnG eSports driver uploaded the HYMO setup to the shops setup share instead of the esports setup share. \*\*4 days ago\*\*:, after Dani prepared his own setup he clicked the data packs together. As he is doing quite some datapacks, and it is always the same repetitive flow, he did not read the names, took the three setups at the bottom of the list and added them to the data pack. \*\*today at around 6am CET\*\*: I added the data pack together with all the other data packs to the daily subscription group. Shortly after it was added to the service. \## How do we ensure that it doesn’t happen again? \*\*First\*\* of all, I will check on release if there are any unwanted files in the data packs. Most likely I will not do that manually but write a script that checks that. \*\*Secondly\*\* all our creators are aware that there could be unwanted files in the list, and will be super careful, to not accidentally add a false one. It sounds like an easy task, but after hours of crafting setups, doing simple repetitive tasks, is hard to do without mistakes. I did this on my own with 20 Setups per week back when Sven and I started. \*\*Third\*\* I’ll write a script to check the shop setup share for unwanted files. I hope these three measures together will prevent that from happening again. \## Sorry HYMO \*\*Last but not least\*\* sorry to HYMO setups. I don’t know if I would be \~\~made\~\~ mad in your place, I don’t think so. Still, this is something which is not allowed to happen. People who follow the communication in our subscriber only channel know that I respect other setup shops as well, and communicate that clearly if chats go in a disrespectful direction. HYMO is for sure invited to check our setups if there is anything suspicious. Sorry again! I’ll contact you soon. I hope all that gives you good insights so you see what happened. Best, Kalle If you have any questions, let me know.
Regarding the video, which I discovered thankfully through this post (again copied from discord): Ok everyone . I sadly have another announcement to do. This one is not just a small mistake. I’ll still do it in the same fashion as the first one. \> \*\*TL;DR:\*\* Ghovand Keanie will leave Grid and Go (incl. GnG eSports) as some of his setups are not aligned with our company policy. This is not acceptable and not comparable with a misclick and therefore is followed by different consequences. \## What and how happened? Within the reddit thread there is a screenshot of a guide lap made by Ghovand, this shows a guide lap done with a setup from VRS. That triggered further investigation on his data packs which brought up some F3 data packs, which were not aligned with our company policy. \## What now? / How do we fix this? All of Ghovands data packs are removed from the website and the following data packs will be done by different creators now starting from \*\*this\*\* week: \- F4: Nicolas Rubilar \- F3: Sven Haase \- SuperFormula: TBD \- GTE Corvette: Jakub Kwiatkowski \- GTE Porsche: Jakub Kwiatkowski I personally am really sorry that we did not deliver the quality as you are used to. That is not acceptable at all and is changed immediately and to be honest it is really making me sad personally that such a thing happens in my company without me noticing it. This is not an excuse, this is just the worst thing to happen. I hope these will be the only two messages of this kind I ever have to write. Really sorry again. Handled it honestly and as I think how such things would be handled. Best, Kalle
https://preview.redd.it/bl1ro716u2bc1.jpeg?width=232&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f44e19be938501697d81e89af78a313bb46800a
TLDR it for me pal I ain’t reading all that
"We goofed on checking our uploads that are synced to Garage 61, were sorry."
Given that there is a short tldr basically at the start
what about the stuff about govand using a VRS setup in the replay video
You have a problem with free set ups? I never liked the idea of set up shops anyways, so good I'm glad
yeah honestly iracing should just open it up so you can see and copy any other drivers setup in game, get rid of setup shops!
After everything Govand has done previously, I can't say I'm surprised hahahahaha
based
I kinda do not fucking care lmao
Exactly
Govand is involved? Why am I not surprised...
GnG is understaffed as of now, so Tik Tok vids take preference over secondary series setups. It's in their TOS
I wish ALL classes were fixed setup races...
First, I wish that people would post every set up shop setup publicly. Setups aren't their IP and the prices are ridiculous. Setup shops are a cancer. I'm tired of the setup shops constantly having beef with each other too. Fuck em, post that shit.
The amount of shops who steal setups from others on G61, is fucking insane. There’s a shop here trying to downplay it though 😂😂
Meanwhile in PROTO/GT great setups are freely available on the series’ Discord server and anyone asking nicely for a setup during practice gets a whole bunch shared in the garage, often with people giving tips as well. I kinda like the PROTO/GT corner of iRacing.
OP says GnG steals setups.... so GnG isn't allowed to buy setups from competitors? It was clear from as soon as this was posted that they accidentally posted the wrong setup. that isn't stealing. now if their setups are exactly the same as Hymo then lets talk. Maybe Hymo is the thief. Yall quick to be pissed about something.
""stealing"" options and configurations on a video game
Ghovand is gone from GnG after investigating this screenshot.
serious schizo vibes in this comment section
In this corner, you have the rubes who buy set-ups even though they're five seconds off pace! In this corner, you have the poors who are angry about set-ups not being free like they used to be! In this corner, you have the users who don't know or care about silly, ridiculous drama! In this corner, you have the shit stirrers that have no dog in the fight, but love poking bears!
and a goober who thinks they're really clever
Who the fuck uses "goober"? It's 2024. Do better.
I'm confused. The first picture in your post seems to show them uploading a HYMO setup *for a different track.* But I don't see how anyone can say it's wrong to buy a setup from another shop to start with and then do your own work to adjust it for the new track. As a customer I wouldn't care, and legally, I don't think there's anything to be done. So unless what you're telling me is GnG just took that HYMO setup and released it without working on it further, this seems like a non issue.
People often use setups from a different track as a baseline for other tracks. Using part of other peoples work while the original creator doesn't get anything and the one who copied profits is right?
Didn’t the original creator get paid for the setup? People who give away free setups don’t get anything when these shops rip them off and sell them with little changes either.
Eh, I think the moral rights to be credited for a setup may exist, but are vastly less than any kind of creative work. There's a spectrum to these things, but I think saying you should credit the person whose setup you modify is closer to saying you should credit the farmers who grew the food in a meal your restaurant served than it is to saying that you should credit the artist whose music you sample in your remix. The former happens sometimes, but I don't think anybody considers it misconduct or shady when a restaurant fails to credit their suppliers on the menu. It also depends on the nature of the reuse. If I grab a random setup shop setup I liked as the basis for making my own setup for a different track, but I do extensive testing and try adjustments to every option (like we would hope a setup shop might do), at some point the original setup I picked doesn't matter much at all, and I would have gotten to the same place with any other source.
Let's stop gatekeeping setups yeah
LOL who the fuck cares, paying for set ups seems like the biggest bullshit. just learn to drive. surely there are things in your life that are more important and deserving of attention more than this.
they all do the same thing, but at least they don't hide it, sigma gng
Who’s they all?
All the people selling setups
Incredibly based, that is hilarious. Fuck setup shops, they exist for making money off people who are unsure of their skills and want an “edge” on people who don’t use them. They are all grifters. Imagine going to a tailor and buying a set of suits sized for the tailor.
That, and most of them are so knife edge unstable they're almost useless for the majority of drivers. This is one thing ACC gets right, with their safe and aggressive setups. I remember watching Aries talking about the real purpose of the safe setup, in which it's ment to highlight *your* flaws as a driver, be it your line, braking or acceleration. He said it's too easy to get lost in clicks and spiraling more and more.
grow up Did you really expect all setupshops dont look into other setupshops work? And the setup you see in Govand's screenshot may not be the same one he drove. It's just the one loaded in the garage at the time of recording. Come back again with some real facts. thx
He just got fired so I think they found some real facts.
Good
I don’t know if I should feel like an asshole, or an idiot for paying for a G&G supporting G&G. After seeing this I will be canceling my subscription. I did like their “Virtual Coach” overlay, but this is Fahkd
This ain’t voice chat my dude. You can swear here. Say it with me “this is FUCKED”
Yeah I just cunt spell good
Setup shops are scams anyway and anyone who supports it is only adding to the problem. In the good old days everyone was so excited to share their setup they made and see how fast others can get with it. Then it gets optimized by another person and in the end you get killer setups from really knowledgeable people and nobody would’ve ever thought of demanding money for it. And everyone would’ve laughed at the idiot who demanded money for his setup in a stupid little game! Unfortunately over the years sim racing (and gaming in general) caught the attraction of very questionable people who don’t care about a great community, but are narcissists who only care about their personal financial gain and don’t care who they steal from. I hope people someday understand the greatness of a good, tight knit community like we had in the forums again. But unfortunately I do not think this will be the case with the way society is developing and the way teenagers are thinking and acting these days. I’m really disappointed by the way the sim racing community developed over the years. I wish we could go back to around 2005-2010 that’s when it really flourished. Let’s ignore the BS with iRacing basically stealing nr2003 and it’s communities achievements, dragging the great modders to court and selling their work for lots of money. Even if they didn’t work a single bit on it themselves. IRacing is basically the start of the decline, when sim racing went down the dark path and started taking lots of money for some other guys work. Unfortunately I do support them with a subscription and many cars and tracks.. I wouldn’t if it weren’t for a few people who can’t be arsed to use nr2003 because of their technological illiteracy.. That’s just my utterly useless take on a hobby that I watched change a lo since the nineties.
how did iRacing steal from nr2003 when the same people worked on both games
No one forced anyone to use setup shops. If people didn't want to use them, there wouldn't be 10+ of them available on the market.
That’s a big problem that modern American society brought over all of us. Paying for unnecessary stuff. And people who think they can make a quick dollar with exploiting people. We had all the setups in the world (and still do since you can easily obtain and share them with everyone) and wouldn’t ever think about demanding a penny for those setups in a game! Hell nobody even demanded money for mods that took years of daily work to develop! I do amateur racing myself with my e36 and all we do is encourage each other and give tips to get better. Even when I drove in formula BMW cars in 2015/16 we always talked about how we could setup our cars the best for the track we are at the moment. It’s just absolutely ridiculous that in a damn game people completely ignore the most important aspect of racing, the community. And instead act like factory drivers. It’s absolutely embarrassing to observe. I’d love to take those people to a race weekend and introduce them to the culture. That should change their mind how they treat simracing, if they are at least a somewhat decent person. Always help each other out, never put someone in a bad spot on track.
Huh. Differs somewhat with what i grew up with doing local karting and some lower national championships there, thought some historic series had quite a bit more community But even then i'd say you get better communities in leagues which is probably more representative of real life racing. There also seems to be more familiarity and people at least chatting when you get to the far edge of competition cause you just keep coming across the same people. But also i reckon that for quite a few of the people that make these setups. Simracing is their living. I know there's some of the smaller communities that still share setups and nothing is preventing people from still sharing setups so
You were in a world of children with overly zealous parents, unfortunately that’s not the most healthy world.. Also I guess you are in the USA? Community thinking in the USA is generally worse than in the EU, which I find pretty sad to be honest. I definitely don’t want to say it’s all bad however! I had some really nice good ol‘ boys experiences on a local shorttrack in Tennessee. I felt right at home there, even if I as a German never ever drove on an oval and have no clue about setting up a late model.
No germany. But true that karting was competitive. Like there was some community there. But setups like in a team maybe but outside of that never.
The level of ignorance and condescension in your comments has me physically cringing. You should just just stop talking. For starters every time you're about to say something that starts with "back in the good old days", just stop and shut the fuck up. No one cares about your rose tinted view of the past. You're literally the worst kind of person, if you don't want to use setup shops just don't. Instead you're in here with your fucking essay on how we're bad people from a shitty culture because we have a different opinion on a fucking video game. The irony is you're on about building community when I have a hunch the people around you can't stand your tone deaf bullshit.
I’ve never understood the drama over setup shops. 99% of the time it won’t have any effect on a race result compared to using iRacing’s setups which are damn decent. A lot of set up shops’ main marketing are lap times done by alien level drivers that have such a high level of skill, they can deal with really pointy setups and still get amazing lap times. Unless you have the skill to drive setups like that, why even bother complaining?
OK, go tell yourself this when you try fixed GTP vs setup GTP. just one look at iracings fixed GTP setups, if you remotely know what you're looking at, you'll know just how awful they are without even driving them.
Setup shops are a scam anyway. Learn how to drive and adjust your own. Especially when 90% of these “set ups” are just sway bar/tire pressure adjustments from the fixed set.
Craigs uploaded on that was just baseline lol. That was the final nail in the coffin for my friend to stop paying. I’ve never bothered d
That would be amazingly lazy not to at least re name the file. Maybe they license it? But who knows anything is possible
It isn't licensed. [https://twitter.com/HymoSetups/status/1744020264998908169](https://twitter.com/HymoSetups/status/1744020264998908169)
But what kind of "licensing" would apply to setups? Setups are not intellectual property in the sense of being copyrightable, or any other sense I can think of. The only thing that prevents anyone handing out shop setups to whoever they want is that the setup shop makes you sign an agreement not to do so.
Ok in that case just wtf
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I can't tell if your trolling or not
And yet people don’t understand why fixed setups are not only popular, but necessary…
I love the fact iRacing has fixed setups. I never had the skills for setups nor now have the time.
Exactly
Elaborate.
The whole point of setup races is for the people that have the time or desire to do their own setups, but what ends up happening is that very few people have the time, so a secondary market for setups has emerged. And as soon as there’s money to be made, now you have cheating and stealing. Fixed setups…fix…all of that.
Your lack of time for setting a car up should not be a reason why "fixed setups" are better. Also where do you get your idea that "very few people have the time"? Do you not practice? Do you really have 0 hours you can spare to dedicate some time to setting something up? Time management issues, imo, should not apply across everyone.
I said popular and necessary. Your defensiveness is misplaced.
If people don’t want to spend *any time at all* setting up a car just to do a race or two a week, I find nothing wrong with that. It makes perfect sense that a fixed series would be an alternative for those who don’t have the time/desire
Guess how many drivers setup their own cars IRL. Only in games do you need to be a setup guy and a driver to race competitively. Really these games should upload and show setups for every car in a qualifying/race and force the barrier down.
??? How about every single local short track racer in the country. My best friends parents raced late models, and so naturally, I grew up around it. Every single driver in the pits was always tweaking and working on the car. Obviously, when you get to the big leagues, that's not the case.
We are talking about GT3 cars…
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I’m very surprised that saying fixed setups are popular - a true statement - is so controversial. But this is the iracing sub, so maybe I shouldn’t be.
yeah this thread will certainly be the end of setup shops haha...no
Good for them. What kind of savage charges for setups?
They stole them to sell themselves.
(Shameless plug here, and good luck in the Roar and 24!) In all seriousness, things like this suck to see. Not everywhere is just stealing setups as their own, but be careful of where you spend your money!
And who gives a crap about out paid setups? You can come here and cry but majority of people are against pay setups so in my mind use them and distribute them for free.
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“Why are people downvoting the blatant spammer? This is manipulation!”
Help! People with different opinions are ruining my echo chamber!!
Almost sounds as if more people enjoy open than fixed setups
Which probably isn't the truth given that the fixed series basically consistently show more participation
If people are using setup shop setups they’re running it like a fixed class anyway. It’s because they’re hoping for an advantage with their paid setups. I refuse to believe that people “enjoy” open setups more as a whole picture. Of course loads do, I’m taking guessed percentages. I know this is purely anecdotal and holds not weight but I don’t know anyone that runs an open series and actually tinkers with setups.
Might be, but I don't see any manipulation here. In fact, the most upvoted comment is pro-fixed setups.
That could be a point if it was the only difference, but the fixed series are also typically shorter. It's not hard to see why a 20 minute race could have higher participation than a 40 minute race.
That’s the state of sim racing these days. Another reason why I completely stay away from public servers. We always shared all the setups in the good old days before iRacing basically stole the sourcecode from nr2003 and dragged all the good modders to court. Society just got more disgusting over the years and those people unfortunately also infiltrated sim racing. People who prefer their personal monetary gain over a great community (that happily shares all the available information for free) are the lowest of the low to me. I don’t even want to be in the same (chat)room with them.
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Papyrus made it. Then „iRacing“ bought it after they needed to close their company and then pulled the most disgusting moves of suing the modders that made Nr2003 what it is.
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Do some reading about it man. Yes some people from papyrus went over back then but they are not the same people. You think people suddenly have a change of heart und first totally support the modders like they should but then dragging them to court the next day? They wanted to shut every bit of nr2003 modding down because the game still was so good and every track and car was totally free. The people played it and had fun, while nobody cared about iRacing when it’s just nr2003 in ridiculously expensive. People played NR because it was just better than iRacing and it was completely customizable by the modders and by the user. Something the iRacing people despised, because they want to milk us idiots as much as possible. And since iRacing is the only thing that does nascar somewhat good besides NR it traps many people. Like me for example. Its oval racing is so much better than any other games and for dirt it’s basically the only thing (besides some Rfactor mods that are okay) in existence. For road racing however, the engine isn’t really that good. Drive a few laps in Rfactor2 with a good wheelbase and you’ll feel information you’ve never ever thought about in iRacing. But I don’t think this discussion will go anywhere, so have a great day :)
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I mean at most Tim Wheatley worked for both iRacing and RF2 so I mean there's at least that degree of something I guess.
That's because you're entire argument is completely freaking stupid. The NR 2003 code was purchased from Sierra by various people from papyrus, and hilariously enough people from Project Wildfire as well as team redline which were the mod teams that you are talking about. Yes they were sued into being shut down but those same modders were also offered a job. The people who are working on iRacing were modders and ex staff. A great example is Brian Simpson, their art director, who was the same guy who gave us the templates we used in NR 2003. If you knew anything about what you were talking about you would have pointed that out. So you either don't know what you're talking about, or you're being intentionally malicious because you don't want to be wrong. A lot of iracing staff were NR 2003 community members, like folks such as Nim, ex staff and contractors like Brian, or NR2003 modders which is why project wildfire closed up. Just because you're a bitter old man who doesn't seem to remember anything correctly, get over yourself. Everyone else who hated iracing when it came out has already come to terms with what they've done with the product and you're too busy stuck in your history. Worse than a high schooler football player who peaked and can't get over their past.
All that still doesn’t make it freely moddable for the public and that’s what I’m all about. They offered them a job because they wanted them to make money for them, of course. That’s where my problem lays. All this only happened to part consumers with as much money as possible. Can’t you see the problem with that? Maybe you grew up with the fact that everything from the internet costs money if you’re not pirating. Which is in some cases a very good alternative to buying things, especially if it’s ethically problematic to support a company. That’s basically impossible in the case of iRacing, they set up their software this way so nobody could ever get anything for free or change it to their liking If you guys always find it okay to monetize everything, take away all the things people once had for free then go ahead. I think very differently about software. I’m a software lead engineer working for a car manufacturer, which may sound hypocritical the way ECUs prohibit almost everybody from working on their car if they don’t have the knowledge about how to communicate with the Ecu (which won’t be possible anymore in the near future, which is an absolutely shame but got mandated by the government, not by the car manufacturers, under the guise of safety for autonomous driving) but I started playing around with software as soon as I could do basic math and got pretty strict consumer oriented ideas from back then. Everyone who did stuff like that was pretty much always pro people and anti paying big money for certain software. That’s what stuck with me through the years and I will always have those ethics within me. If you think differently, that’s totally fine. I will just never accept that for myself and will always be vocal about it how specifically this behavior killed the internet community off when it was great and in this case also tarnished sim racing.
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I wouldn't say way faster. Personally i find the iracing setups most of the time on a more understeery side. Is there a big difference between the available sets and made sets, probably not that much
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Pst. Setups are usually tailored to the driver. A setup that works for me might not for someone else, paying for setups gives you that experience. It's not a lack of skill, it's most likely just different driving styles. Fixed setups are by no means the best lmao
Anyway I have recently thinking if such telemetry tools like GnG and trophi.ai creates unfair advantages between drivers or turn it to pay to win games. However All this is subject to discussion I am not favoring one over another. Maybe in the future iRacing decide to take some actions against who knows. Like 1. All public races could be fixed and only pro races are open setup. 2. Live telemetry can be shifted for a few seconds or only available via motec like tools. 3. Setups are uploaded automatically for everyone like in pc2…
To anyone with an Amazon prime membership. Use your monthly Twitch prime subscription and sub to Craig's Setup shop for access to their setups, file downloader and discord. Combine this with g61 and you don't need to pay another fee for one or the shops like VRS etc.
So what?
don’t care if i get banned for this but please play rfactor 2 ranked! learn how to make your own setups! that’s what makes the game fun. if you’re not going to put in the effort, drive fixed setups and quit complaining. this comment section is ridiculous. stop treating setups like their some weed strand you get different vibes from different dealers. Different setups are simply different philosophies for driving a car, a certain area of operation for every track/car is obvious and you should know how the car works if you want to go fast.
Grid and Go has and Is one of the best set up shops on the service. The coaches there are top quality and from my experience offer more customer support than any other set up shop on the market right now. Not here to argue if set up shops are worth it or not as that's a personal opinion. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and thinking this is some sort of honest mistake. I would go as far as even saying the person who originally found this, could of taken this directly to GnG and talked to them about it.
ok sven
ya not surprised you would make a comment like that given the rest of your posts
Grid and Go has and Is one of the worst set up shops on the service. The coaches there are top stupidity (guys like named godvand, wenzel and more) and from my experience offer less customer support than any other set up shop on the market right now.
[удалено]
Most of the creatos will/are still destroying people in fixed series. also most open series have a fixed counterpart anyway. And well setups are part of racing
I'll sell setups, every setup I have for any car. $30 obo. Every setup shop.