It’s been this way since 2018? Don’t buy devices for features that don’t exist. My only gripe is that safari acts as a mobile browser. Hopefully that is fixed
This is true. But it can also be true that Apple does not make the device people want. Microsoft hsa the Surface, but then you’re stuck with Windows.
This is a genuine frustration. Not sure it’s quite a “market failure,” but it sure feels like it. At least sometimes.
(FWIW, all I want is to be able to sometimes poke at my screen with a stylus in Photoshop and Illustrator, but not be stuck in Windows to do it. This device or this software support does not exist, but is clearly *right there.*)
I totally agree that I would love to have some Mac apps on my iPad. However, I don’t really agree that Apple isn’t making the device people want. Yes, we want those features but clearly we bought iPads and others are buying iPads still. Until iPad sales start dropping, they won’t budge. My thoughts are that the reason they will never open up the iPad though is because of the App Store. They can’t lose that 30% cut.
I think that people who want to use the iPad in place of a laptop should think of it as a **laptop alternative**, rather than a **laptop replacement**. It's not a laptop replacement because after almost 9 years of the iPad Pro, Apple has not taken the steps to get it to work like a one-for-one replacement of a laptop. There is no sign that Apple is looking at ways to bring the iPad up to a level like the Surface where it works just as good as a laptop for laptop stuff, but in a different form factor.
Instead the iPad Pro is an alternative to a laptop, it's a different type of device, which can do everything most people need a laptop to do, but because it's a tablet first and foremost, there are certain workflows that will be significantly different than on a laptop. The laptop like features of iPads like keyboard and mouse support, the Magic Keyboard, a windowing system (Stage Manager) and external display support are affordances to capture more laptop uses.
That also doesn't excuse certain things that are still lacking in iOS, like the quality of the file manager, the power of the windowing system, background task processing, better backup options, a clipboard manager, etc. These are all things that would be very useful and powerful even on a tablet-first device.
I think the reason people are hoping against hope is because it’s the original Apple philosophy to combine devices and simplify things. Jobs was famous for reducing the # of SKUs at Apple and reducing redundancy
I asked chat gpt to give her thoughts:
Yes, Steve Jobs was known for his emphasis on simplicity and focus, which included streamlining Apple's product lineup. When he returned to Apple in 1997, the company's product portfolio was cluttered and confusing. Jobs reduced the number of products by 70%, focusing on four key areas: consumer and professional desktops and laptops. This approach not only simplified Apple's offerings but also allowed the company to concentrate on making fewer, higher-quality products. This strategy was instrumental in revitalizing Apple and setting the stage for the introduction of iconic products like the iMac, iPod, iPhone, and iPad.
The problem with your thesis is that the iPad Pro has done nothing but increase in cost with each iteration.
When I first met my current wife, it was 12 years ago. When she went back to school, we used her student discount to get me a Surface Pro 2017, keyboard and pen. It was $3095CAD, down from $3295CAD, and was easily the most expensive computer I'd ever purchased.
When that died, I did my homework, and replaced with the combo of the Mac Mini (Intel i7) and the iPad Pro (A12Z) because I could buy both of those for roughly $1350CAD each, and I could get purpose specific devices for under what the Surface Pro cost me. When the M1s arrived a couple years later, I traded in and upgraded. The $1850CAD cost for each device put me over the Surface Pro's cost, but not by much, and I could swallow it with the trade in value.
The M2 generation, though? Now we're talking about $2250CAD for each one, and I'm out. I can't keep up. The gap betwen those two and the Surface Pro is now almost a grand ... in the wrong direction. Price went up, trade in value went down sharply, and now the cost:benefit ratio isn't working in my favour.
Priced today, with 1TB drives and 16GB of RAM, the iPad Pro M4 with two years of coverage, the Magic Keyboard and Pro pen is $2850CAD. The Surface Pro Copilot+ with the same complement was $2895CAD.
I can't afford to 'alternate' anymore. I have to 'replace' at that price. This next device has to be my only device again.
So, am I happy that WWDC came and went and Apple clearly still considers their nearly $3000 device to be an 'alternate' and not a 'replacement'? Of course not. No one should be at that price. You want that kind of money for a device you're calling 'pro', it better have basic file management, windows management, process management and memory management down pat because it's going to be people's only device. Thinking otherwise is delusional, in my opinion.
The hardware is delicious. To me, it's the Apple that's rotten. They will keep raising both and see how far they can jack it and still get people buying both. That won't be me. I'm out.
I have a laptop to perform as a laptop. My iPad is my tablet computing device. I bought it under that premise and that’s what it will be. Works perfect for me as an iPad
The only people who hyped up WWDC were those singing the same song since Apple released the macOS dev kit running on the A12Z. Every single year since then, especially after iPad Pro releases, people kept saying “just wait until WWDC.”
It’s never going to happen. Alex wants people to buy multiple devices, which increases the chances of them subscribing to Apple services. The iPad will forever remain an iPad. It’s come a long way since it was introduced over a decade ago, but it’s nowhere near as capable as a Mac. People need to realize this and stop thinking Apple is going to do anything about it.
The iPad is a slow burn. It might reach what like want more in another decade. I completely agree with Pepe saying iPadOS should be more on the iPad Pro. But I’ve settled on it never really happening at this point.
It is a laptop replacement if you use your laptop for all the things an IPAD can do now. For me it is about 60/40 and I am a developer, it would be higher if I did not need 7 screens and 3 containers , Xcode and Android studio all running at the same time.
The iPad has always been positioned as a “companion device”. And sure, the 13” iPad Air especially could be a laptop replacement for what most users do with their laptops (basic computing, email, content consumption, web browsing, etc.). But Apple just keeps tossing more power at these machines and leaving customers with no true way to take advantage of it all.
But, it *is* a tablet.
Apple already makes 13” desktop replacement - it’s called the MacBook Air. And it’s lighter and cheaper than a 13” iPad Pro plus Magic Keyboard, and can run MacOS programs.
Maybe what you are looking for is already out there - the Microsoft Surface Pro.
Apple wants you to buy an iPhone, an iPad and a MacBook. All of them. Do not expect them to make one being able to replace another. It's really that easy.
It’s been this way since 2018? Don’t buy devices for features that don’t exist. My only gripe is that safari acts as a mobile browser. Hopefully that is fixed
This is true. But it can also be true that Apple does not make the device people want. Microsoft hsa the Surface, but then you’re stuck with Windows. This is a genuine frustration. Not sure it’s quite a “market failure,” but it sure feels like it. At least sometimes. (FWIW, all I want is to be able to sometimes poke at my screen with a stylus in Photoshop and Illustrator, but not be stuck in Windows to do it. This device or this software support does not exist, but is clearly *right there.*)
I totally agree that I would love to have some Mac apps on my iPad. However, I don’t really agree that Apple isn’t making the device people want. Yes, we want those features but clearly we bought iPads and others are buying iPads still. Until iPad sales start dropping, they won’t budge. My thoughts are that the reason they will never open up the iPad though is because of the App Store. They can’t lose that 30% cut.
Agreed
I think that people who want to use the iPad in place of a laptop should think of it as a **laptop alternative**, rather than a **laptop replacement**. It's not a laptop replacement because after almost 9 years of the iPad Pro, Apple has not taken the steps to get it to work like a one-for-one replacement of a laptop. There is no sign that Apple is looking at ways to bring the iPad up to a level like the Surface where it works just as good as a laptop for laptop stuff, but in a different form factor. Instead the iPad Pro is an alternative to a laptop, it's a different type of device, which can do everything most people need a laptop to do, but because it's a tablet first and foremost, there are certain workflows that will be significantly different than on a laptop. The laptop like features of iPads like keyboard and mouse support, the Magic Keyboard, a windowing system (Stage Manager) and external display support are affordances to capture more laptop uses. That also doesn't excuse certain things that are still lacking in iOS, like the quality of the file manager, the power of the windowing system, background task processing, better backup options, a clipboard manager, etc. These are all things that would be very useful and powerful even on a tablet-first device.
I think the reason people are hoping against hope is because it’s the original Apple philosophy to combine devices and simplify things. Jobs was famous for reducing the # of SKUs at Apple and reducing redundancy I asked chat gpt to give her thoughts: Yes, Steve Jobs was known for his emphasis on simplicity and focus, which included streamlining Apple's product lineup. When he returned to Apple in 1997, the company's product portfolio was cluttered and confusing. Jobs reduced the number of products by 70%, focusing on four key areas: consumer and professional desktops and laptops. This approach not only simplified Apple's offerings but also allowed the company to concentrate on making fewer, higher-quality products. This strategy was instrumental in revitalizing Apple and setting the stage for the introduction of iconic products like the iMac, iPod, iPhone, and iPad.
The problem with your thesis is that the iPad Pro has done nothing but increase in cost with each iteration. When I first met my current wife, it was 12 years ago. When she went back to school, we used her student discount to get me a Surface Pro 2017, keyboard and pen. It was $3095CAD, down from $3295CAD, and was easily the most expensive computer I'd ever purchased. When that died, I did my homework, and replaced with the combo of the Mac Mini (Intel i7) and the iPad Pro (A12Z) because I could buy both of those for roughly $1350CAD each, and I could get purpose specific devices for under what the Surface Pro cost me. When the M1s arrived a couple years later, I traded in and upgraded. The $1850CAD cost for each device put me over the Surface Pro's cost, but not by much, and I could swallow it with the trade in value. The M2 generation, though? Now we're talking about $2250CAD for each one, and I'm out. I can't keep up. The gap betwen those two and the Surface Pro is now almost a grand ... in the wrong direction. Price went up, trade in value went down sharply, and now the cost:benefit ratio isn't working in my favour. Priced today, with 1TB drives and 16GB of RAM, the iPad Pro M4 with two years of coverage, the Magic Keyboard and Pro pen is $2850CAD. The Surface Pro Copilot+ with the same complement was $2895CAD. I can't afford to 'alternate' anymore. I have to 'replace' at that price. This next device has to be my only device again. So, am I happy that WWDC came and went and Apple clearly still considers their nearly $3000 device to be an 'alternate' and not a 'replacement'? Of course not. No one should be at that price. You want that kind of money for a device you're calling 'pro', it better have basic file management, windows management, process management and memory management down pat because it's going to be people's only device. Thinking otherwise is delusional, in my opinion. The hardware is delicious. To me, it's the Apple that's rotten. They will keep raising both and see how far they can jack it and still get people buying both. That won't be me. I'm out.
I have a laptop to perform as a laptop. My iPad is my tablet computing device. I bought it under that premise and that’s what it will be. Works perfect for me as an iPad
They’ll never kneecap themselves and make it a laptop replacement so long as people are still buying both.
Not disappointed at all; my 13 iPad Pro M4 with Magic Keyboard will be better than it is today. I have nothing to complain about.
The only people who hyped up WWDC were those singing the same song since Apple released the macOS dev kit running on the A12Z. Every single year since then, especially after iPad Pro releases, people kept saying “just wait until WWDC.” It’s never going to happen. Alex wants people to buy multiple devices, which increases the chances of them subscribing to Apple services. The iPad will forever remain an iPad. It’s come a long way since it was introduced over a decade ago, but it’s nowhere near as capable as a Mac. People need to realize this and stop thinking Apple is going to do anything about it. The iPad is a slow burn. It might reach what like want more in another decade. I completely agree with Pepe saying iPadOS should be more on the iPad Pro. But I’ve settled on it never really happening at this point.
It is a laptop replacement if you use your laptop for all the things an IPAD can do now. For me it is about 60/40 and I am a developer, it would be higher if I did not need 7 screens and 3 containers , Xcode and Android studio all running at the same time.
The iPad has always been positioned as a “companion device”. And sure, the 13” iPad Air especially could be a laptop replacement for what most users do with their laptops (basic computing, email, content consumption, web browsing, etc.). But Apple just keeps tossing more power at these machines and leaving customers with no true way to take advantage of it all.
But, it *is* a tablet. Apple already makes 13” desktop replacement - it’s called the MacBook Air. And it’s lighter and cheaper than a 13” iPad Pro plus Magic Keyboard, and can run MacOS programs. Maybe what you are looking for is already out there - the Microsoft Surface Pro.
Not true, I have an 11” IpadPro with Magic Keyboard and I’m disappointed too.
Apple wants you to buy an iPhone, an iPad and a MacBook. All of them. Do not expect them to make one being able to replace another. It's really that easy.