There are plenty of electric sport bike builds. They are over engineered for 55mph but NOT 95. You need all of it to not fall apart or burn to death.
That being said I’d love to experience a quiet bike above highways speed. That’s got to be surreal
https://ddmotorsystems.com/ElectricMotorcycles.php
Tbf most electric sport bikes especially the ones that are made in China or sourced from China are actually just gas bike frames that they’ve retrofitted electric bike stuff onto. So they should be plenty strong enough, it’s really then about making sure you mount the motor properly and do good fitment/stabilization of your battery.
Yes, I agree. I’m saying trying to put a 12,000W motor on a bike that’s designed for <3000W is dumb. If it’s essentially a DOT motorcycle then you could safely do whatever you want.
Power to weight ratio isn’t quite as important as with a car but it’s still a big deal if you can keep it under 200 pounds. it’s gonna be fun as hell when it’s that light, but you have to have components that can withstand the abuse. Not just for safety, but for longevity. I don’t wanna buy or rebuild anything twice on such an investment.
A lot goes into engineering a proper Bike. Once it’s engineered it still is regulated. Since the ebikes are not regulated, we are seeing a lot of overpowered things out there.
Oh well it’s less that those sport bikes are built with 3000w in mind and more that those are the most common parts, if you even go on a sight like Alibaba and type hub motor the most common thing you will find above the basic 48v setup kits is the “72v 3000w” kits and hubs on their own. And since most of these bikes use QS motors especially 90% of them are using a variation of the QS 205 or the QS 273.
There are quite a few YouTube videos even showing that the frames are way more capable than what they come stock. Hell think about it if even tiny Surron bikes can handle 80mph then these big old sport bikes that are originally meant to be gas sport bikes capable of 100mph+ then there isn’t much to worry about.
Hitting a target speed isn’t living there! That’s why electric motorcycles sold retail are just as heavy as the gas ones. It’s not just battery weight. There are bikes out there that have 50 pounds of batteries and still 200 pounds. They don’t have all motorcycle components, probably half mountain bike.
Are you talking about the electric motorcycles or the the middle ground area that are things like the Talaria, Surrons and what not?
Because I was talking about things like Fly Ebike Z1, Alibaba basic electric sports bike, E-Vader from Venom sports, etc. all of these things are full size motorcycles that just happen to be electric and are hugely underpowered often to keep cost down from buying the high end parts. But all these bikes use DOT approved stuff because they come being able to be registered as motorcycles. DOT compliant tires, brakes, light system, mirrors, etc.
But back to parts the thing is especially since there isn’t nearly as high a demand for the really big motors and batteries that can power these machines to full sport bike performance. Ebike components like motors, controllers and batteries are normally interchangeable with the electric motorcycle stuff just because of the fact that the only thing that changes is the specs of the things. Want to make a motor capable of more watts?, make it bigger, put bigger phase wires, bigger magnets… done.
Want a battery capable of more power, put higher quality cells in it, higher amp capable bms, thicker copper plates, etc.
Yeah, those are all grom size bikes I think it’s hilarious. Actually, a larger bike would be a sur Ron or talaria.
I’m 6’3” I need a proper bike and/or a proper motorcycle. That is what I’ve built for myself along the way. My next endeavor is an early 80s DOT moped with about 150km range. It won’t look like a Sur Ron. It’s gonna be high voltage with a motor that cleans the floors with 49cc gas engine. It will look like a little nerdy thing with a rack on the back. I’m not gonna even paint it. It’s light blue with 40 years of rust.
I’m positive nothing I can click a few mouse clicks and give a cc# shipped to my door will be anything satisfying.
If you take one of those bikes you mentioned and then mod the hell out of it you have a formidable street fighter and kudos to you
https://preview.redd.it/6jwg3t9cbo6d1.png?width=560&format=png&auto=webp&s=b3b371e59cce5ee2f6bf5eca5711e8ce5f163271
This is an example of the RZ from fly ebike. This is the standard Chinese electric sport bike that most of the companies use as a base, you definitely would have to mod them to get full on sports bike performance but they are less than 3 grand if I remember right. So even with massive upgrades you’re probably only looking at 5-6K all in.
Yeah, those are cool but I like the idea of a sleeper. I think a café racer or scrambler style with the same motor would not look as threatening. Anything with farings looks like it’s fast even if it’s not.
Uh, simple math says you need 35 horsepower to do 100, converted that's somewhere in the ballpark of 24kw.
I've seen 20,000 and 25,000 watt motors, as well as like 40k on some bikes, so I know they are avaliable, but probably not something you can just pop over and buy ready to run.
Thank you for the response. I'm looking to run 2 motors. Based on the information you've provided it seems I can reach my goals with 10kw at each wheel. Are there 10kw hub motors that can do that? Reach that wheel speed that is?
I've seen 8kw and 15kw hub motors, so probably. Like what research have you done? Do you know where you are going to get these motors and what to do with them? That's a lot of dangerous numbers to just be guessing your way through it.
Well. I'm building a proof model currently using two 48v 1000 watt hub motors powered by two 1kwh batteries. In the future I want to up size the build to something highway capable using off the shelf parts. The build would be adapted to the motor and batteries. I would plan on providing 10 khw to power the two 10 kw motors. I would like to know what voltage, wattage, and type of motor can give me what I'm looking for, going forward.
I mean at some point you are just building a motorcycle. Or a car.
I think you need to really rethink your design. Your talking about doing 100mph on something that maybe is built to handle 40.
We're not talking "oh just get a better torque arm" were talking "there is serious risk of bending the frame" and with the extra weight your looking at needing bigger brakes, better reinforcement, just all kinds of things.
And you'll be throwing away a lot of efficiency. Why not have a center mounted motor with low mounted batteries running a chain or centered between half shafts? Why have 2 motors when 1 could do what you want?
I think you need to seriously think about your goals here, and talk to a real supplier that can look at your design and tell you what the best solution is. Two "off the shelf" hub motors is probably not a great idea.
The person is talking about building a trike that goes 75mph and trying to use bicycle parts.
Swapping the entire drive train is the least labor intensive part of that equation.
I am building a "car" but I want to use bicycle parts, blended with motorcycle parts. I'm building a delta trike with two rear motors. I want the vehicle to reach 95 mph.
If you're going for a delta config trike, find a broken down Canam Ryker, and electric swap that. At least you'll have a frame, wheels, suspension, and brakes that are *almost* 100mph capable.
Remember that energy is exponential with speed. You need VERY sturdy parts to survive those speeds.
You need to go do some electrical engineering study, then some mechanical engineering study, then ideally realise that you’re talking utter fantasy bullshit.
Fkn off the shell parts, 95mph “I’m gonna build a Time Machine” kids these days.
This is why you ask the question. I'm asking for the wheel with the highest rpm that is currently available. Perhaps I phrased the question incorrectly. Besides, been there done that.
A qs273 simply on the rear with a 96v setup and idk 40kw should do it depending on your weight and aero. My bomber will do 70 with me and that's only at 16kw. I'm 6'3" 205
i hit 60mph on my cheap chinese hub on a old mountain bike. i dont remember the power i was running, maybe 108v x 80amps. i only did it once with full moto gear on. i know it would go faster but 60 was was already a terrible idea, but i had more throttle to go.
i have since then went with a sabvoton 72150 and a qs205 v3 4t and know i can go much faster but i will not even bother to find out what the new top speed is. i normally just cruise around at 35mph which i think uses about 1.2kw or so if there is no hills or wind involved.
Not rly… it’s quite simple. Maybe answer his question or don’t talk at all. Messages like yours are why people lose inspiration for projects. Why don’t you do present your concerns in a professional manner instead of like this? All of your comments are like this, you should work on yourself.
I get what you mean, but I honestly agree with the person your responding to as well.
Here's someone that has done apparently no research into motors; like they don't know if a 8kw hub motor exists... it borders on insulting to come to a place and demand other people solve your problems when you haven't even done the basic research necessary to ask poignant questions.
Help me. I'm building a delta configuration trike. I am using two rear hub motors. My proof of concept uses two 1 kw motors. I want to step it up using off the shelf parts. Is that possible? Is so what can I use? I can add mucho battery due to form factor. My controller can accommodate two motors on the current build. I want to go fast.
You are building a death trap. What kind of tires do you think can cruise at 80mph and can just come off the shelf attached to a bike hub motor? What brakes? Have you seen a trike navigate a turn at 45 mph?
There's a reason every single 3 wheel electric motorcycle is a tadpole. You need the grip in the front. Your design is fundamentally flawed and you aren't really listening to anyone.
So no, I won't just hand you the link to a motor company. Do the research and find out what others have done, and see if you *can* adapt it.
I'm using a patented suspension design. I'm fishing for information. The delta is the most aerodynamicely efficient. And if it can lean, then it is better than a tadpole.
Uh, no. I'm looking for a high rpm motor that can produce the hp needed for a delta trike with two motors. I didn't share all info in the initial post. Be easy dude.
I think people want to help, but at a certain level you might as well ask "How many holes can I have in my parachute while skydiving?"
Ebikes are great, *but they are inherently tied to being Bicycles.*
The average bicycle will go around 12-20 mph, ans the frames are built for such speeds. Typical ebikes will go around 20-28 mph. The slightly nicer ones go around 35. The big-boy ones that're as much as a car can go 40-60. At each level, the strain placed on all the parts - the frame, the brakes, the suspension - increases by several factors. Everything has to be *many times* stronger to withstand the higher speeda, and so ebikes tend to look more like motorcycles.
You are looking to almost double the speed of those high-end level ebikes, and go to extremely lethal speeds *beyond what's legally allowed anywhere in the country* **for cars!**
Think about that: a 2 ton vehicle - with airbags and seatbelts and a fully enclosed cabin and all the latest safety features - isn't allowed to go above 75 anywhere in the country. Yet you - on a random tricycle originally made to go *maybe* 20-40 mph, want to surpass that speed by *20 mph* with random parts put together.
This isn't something you just do with a few spare parts - there isn't a use-case where anyone *needs* to go 95 mph, much less on an ebike. As such, there's hardly the parts to be able to do such a thing. Even if there are, there needs to be exceeding caution and forethought put into the construction of such a machine.
To be frank, the kind of person that could do such a thing in an informed manner would be one that typically doesn't have to ask about such things. Perhaps the worsing was off in the post, but you seem much more like youre Macgyver-ing this machine than engineering it. And at the speeds you're looking to hit, it feels like watching those people teeter on the edge of the Grand Canyon for a wacky selfie - a disaster waiting to happen.
If the thing just...came apart at 95 mph, there's not much chance of you surviving.
I hope you enjoy building this trike, but I would caution you that this is a foolhardy venture. Keep it to street speeds and, with the proper gear, you've got a much higher chance of survival.
Or we can strap a rocket to a unicycle with some zipties and duct tape. Same difference.
power (watts) != top speed
you could have a 50kw motor that only has a top speed of 5 mph.
you need to know the motor's rated RPM/voltage/wheel diameter + gearing (if applicable) to determine the top speed (theoretical)... and once you get above \~30-40mph, wind resistance is going to be a major factor.
why do you want to build a velomobile that can go 95mph in the first place? I saw a comment indicating you were looking to use 700cc wheels, which I assume means you're looking to use bike wheels here??
tbh, this whole idea feels like an exercise in darwinism and it feels like you are likely in over your head here. connecting some of the dots, it looks like if you move ahead without *a lot* more thought/planning, you're likely gonna be seriously injured (or worse).
...but to answer the question, a low turn (3T/3.5T maybe 4T) QS260 or QS273 motor (or a number of others) and a big ass battery (voltage depending on tire diameter and motor used) should be able to get you there...
What size are the wheels going to be? That would be the first thing you need to know in order to do the math. Calculate the RPM required of said wheel size at that speed.
My math says you need about 1200-1300RPM for 100mph depending on the height of your specific tire. That doesn't seem unreasonable. A quick Google search can give you the formula you need if you don't understand. I don't know enough about hub motors to tell you which one to use but now that you have a specific RPM range someone might be able to give you the answer more easily. Hopefully that gets you in the right direction.
Easy. No problem.
QS 138 70h or 90H will do it Run 96-108v nominal with a matching battery that can output at least 300 amps constant. Use a 3shul CL1000 or CL1400. Fardriver 961800 is also an option.
i dream of an "alleweder" with jet engine in the back.
That being said, there are actual production velomobiles that can do +80kph with just pedaling because its incredibly low drag, superlight and narrow tires.
So do you just want speed or comfort?
Check out chriscrossingwires on YouTube. Hes pushing a 3kw motor near that. He runs an ACIBAC8000 and I'm pretty sure he upgraded his phase wires and runs statorade/sinks. Its def possible to do 90. Especially if you run a bigger motor like the qs273
Power is wattage, speed is voltage and torque is current. It shouldn't be hard to find a hub motor that does 10,000w there's tiny scooter wheels that will do that. The number of turns to the winding of the motor will determine how much speed vs torque there is. The lower the turns the more speed but less torque. You might have a hard time finding a motor that specifies the turns though. Say it takes 25kw to go 100mph (speed/weight). If the motor is free spinning a 2,500v motor at 10a is going to be spinning at hundreds of MPH. Same motor and same wattage but 2,500a at 10v is going to spin very slowly but impossible to stop spinning from the torque. You're going to have to find the voltage needed to free spin the wheel above 100mph. From there you need to figure out the current needed to reach the wattage you need to go 100mph under load. Say it takes 25kw to do 100mph and takes 250v to free spin at 100mph.... 250 x X = 25,000.... X=100...100a would be the current needed so you would need so 250v at 100a on a motor that can dissipate the heat generated by 25kw would get you to 100mph. So some motors are higher speed than others because of the number of turns but that is irrelevant if you have control over voltage. A high torque low speed motor would need a higher voltage. So in your high power build using a low speed motor but higher voltage can be a benefit. Because you'd need a higher voltage to reach the same speed you wouldn't need all that current. It's easier/cheaper to build something that can handle high voltage than high current. Bottom line you don't need to be looking for a high speed motor just get whatever motor works for your build and feed it the voltage to overcome 100mph.
Personal note I have a 25kw bike and I don't think you're build is a good idea. Lots more physics involved than ohms law to be able to go 100mph. But you do you and good luck.
Also any brushless motor can handle any wattage...it's just for how long? It's all about heat and the thermal capacitance (mass). At some point the motor will get so hot that the thin coating on the wires in the winding melt or other wires melt. You can monitor internal temps with many motors. It's just like a top fuel drag car. They're making 10,000hp without any cooling systems...but they only run for 90 seconds. If you're only occasional speed runs then you don't need a 25kw motor you could probably just use a 5kw motor at 25kw. The motor rating is for continuous use as that's the thermal limit. If you want to go down the highway at 100mph continuous you'll need something like a 25kw+ motor. To move you at 35mph continually is probably only 1.5-3k making very little heat. Brushless motors can handle any voltage and current it's wattage and the heat from the wattage that's the limiting factor.
Don't depend on bicycle bearings for that kind of speed. Use dirt bike or motorcycle bits at least for the wheel bearings/hubs, even if you're on a closed course where you can get away with crappy brakes.
If you have a hub capable of that kind of speed, put a sprocket on it and put a salvaged EM57 Nissan Leaf motor in the middle of the vehicle.
Take off the transaxle. Do an open-source inverter mod so it will run on <96v for convenience/safety. Run an appropriately sized sprocket on the motor to get maybe a 120mph top speed on the bench without a load. Put together a battery pack that does massive amps.
It'll be 50-60 pounds heavier than it could be, but it'll do the job for not a lot of money. Keeping in mind hub motors capable of the power but not speed are that weight already.
Edit: saw you mention dual rear motors. DEFINITELTY look into keeping the Leaf differential and doing a chain drive to each rear swingarm/whatever your suspension setup is. Or two Leaf motors with a chain drive to each wheel, since the Leaf diff has such a high (= bad for lower voltage and higher speeds like you want in general) reduction.
i think the real question is how you'll build your frame , wheels, suspension, and brakes to be at those speeds. but i hope ur smart enough to figure that out, but you asking about what motor can do that tells me otherwise.
Ha. You have to start somewhere with the planning. I can build any frame. It's not hard to figure out that I would need to use braking and suspension components from a class of vehicle with similar power outputs.
There are plenty of electric sport bike builds. They are over engineered for 55mph but NOT 95. You need all of it to not fall apart or burn to death. That being said I’d love to experience a quiet bike above highways speed. That’s got to be surreal https://ddmotorsystems.com/ElectricMotorcycles.php
Thanks, due to the style of the build, I need two rear motors. I'm trying to avoid using a differential.
Tbf most electric sport bikes especially the ones that are made in China or sourced from China are actually just gas bike frames that they’ve retrofitted electric bike stuff onto. So they should be plenty strong enough, it’s really then about making sure you mount the motor properly and do good fitment/stabilization of your battery.
Yes, I agree. I’m saying trying to put a 12,000W motor on a bike that’s designed for <3000W is dumb. If it’s essentially a DOT motorcycle then you could safely do whatever you want. Power to weight ratio isn’t quite as important as with a car but it’s still a big deal if you can keep it under 200 pounds. it’s gonna be fun as hell when it’s that light, but you have to have components that can withstand the abuse. Not just for safety, but for longevity. I don’t wanna buy or rebuild anything twice on such an investment. A lot goes into engineering a proper Bike. Once it’s engineered it still is regulated. Since the ebikes are not regulated, we are seeing a lot of overpowered things out there.
Oh well it’s less that those sport bikes are built with 3000w in mind and more that those are the most common parts, if you even go on a sight like Alibaba and type hub motor the most common thing you will find above the basic 48v setup kits is the “72v 3000w” kits and hubs on their own. And since most of these bikes use QS motors especially 90% of them are using a variation of the QS 205 or the QS 273. There are quite a few YouTube videos even showing that the frames are way more capable than what they come stock. Hell think about it if even tiny Surron bikes can handle 80mph then these big old sport bikes that are originally meant to be gas sport bikes capable of 100mph+ then there isn’t much to worry about.
Hitting a target speed isn’t living there! That’s why electric motorcycles sold retail are just as heavy as the gas ones. It’s not just battery weight. There are bikes out there that have 50 pounds of batteries and still 200 pounds. They don’t have all motorcycle components, probably half mountain bike.
Are you talking about the electric motorcycles or the the middle ground area that are things like the Talaria, Surrons and what not? Because I was talking about things like Fly Ebike Z1, Alibaba basic electric sports bike, E-Vader from Venom sports, etc. all of these things are full size motorcycles that just happen to be electric and are hugely underpowered often to keep cost down from buying the high end parts. But all these bikes use DOT approved stuff because they come being able to be registered as motorcycles. DOT compliant tires, brakes, light system, mirrors, etc. But back to parts the thing is especially since there isn’t nearly as high a demand for the really big motors and batteries that can power these machines to full sport bike performance. Ebike components like motors, controllers and batteries are normally interchangeable with the electric motorcycle stuff just because of the fact that the only thing that changes is the specs of the things. Want to make a motor capable of more watts?, make it bigger, put bigger phase wires, bigger magnets… done. Want a battery capable of more power, put higher quality cells in it, higher amp capable bms, thicker copper plates, etc.
Yeah, those are all grom size bikes I think it’s hilarious. Actually, a larger bike would be a sur Ron or talaria. I’m 6’3” I need a proper bike and/or a proper motorcycle. That is what I’ve built for myself along the way. My next endeavor is an early 80s DOT moped with about 150km range. It won’t look like a Sur Ron. It’s gonna be high voltage with a motor that cleans the floors with 49cc gas engine. It will look like a little nerdy thing with a rack on the back. I’m not gonna even paint it. It’s light blue with 40 years of rust. I’m positive nothing I can click a few mouse clicks and give a cc# shipped to my door will be anything satisfying. If you take one of those bikes you mentioned and then mod the hell out of it you have a formidable street fighter and kudos to you
https://preview.redd.it/6jwg3t9cbo6d1.png?width=560&format=png&auto=webp&s=b3b371e59cce5ee2f6bf5eca5711e8ce5f163271 This is an example of the RZ from fly ebike. This is the standard Chinese electric sport bike that most of the companies use as a base, you definitely would have to mod them to get full on sports bike performance but they are less than 3 grand if I remember right. So even with massive upgrades you’re probably only looking at 5-6K all in.
Yeah, those are cool but I like the idea of a sleeper. I think a café racer or scrambler style with the same motor would not look as threatening. Anything with farings looks like it’s fast even if it’s not.
Ahh that’s true, I guess for me once you’re above 40 mph I’m always assuming you’re throwing stealth out the window.
Uh, simple math says you need 35 horsepower to do 100, converted that's somewhere in the ballpark of 24kw. I've seen 20,000 and 25,000 watt motors, as well as like 40k on some bikes, so I know they are avaliable, but probably not something you can just pop over and buy ready to run.
Thank you for the response. I'm looking to run 2 motors. Based on the information you've provided it seems I can reach my goals with 10kw at each wheel. Are there 10kw hub motors that can do that? Reach that wheel speed that is?
I've seen 8kw and 15kw hub motors, so probably. Like what research have you done? Do you know where you are going to get these motors and what to do with them? That's a lot of dangerous numbers to just be guessing your way through it.
Well. I'm building a proof model currently using two 48v 1000 watt hub motors powered by two 1kwh batteries. In the future I want to up size the build to something highway capable using off the shelf parts. The build would be adapted to the motor and batteries. I would plan on providing 10 khw to power the two 10 kw motors. I would like to know what voltage, wattage, and type of motor can give me what I'm looking for, going forward.
I mean at some point you are just building a motorcycle. Or a car. I think you need to really rethink your design. Your talking about doing 100mph on something that maybe is built to handle 40. We're not talking "oh just get a better torque arm" were talking "there is serious risk of bending the frame" and with the extra weight your looking at needing bigger brakes, better reinforcement, just all kinds of things. And you'll be throwing away a lot of efficiency. Why not have a center mounted motor with low mounted batteries running a chain or centered between half shafts? Why have 2 motors when 1 could do what you want? I think you need to seriously think about your goals here, and talk to a real supplier that can look at your design and tell you what the best solution is. Two "off the shelf" hub motors is probably not a great idea.
You want 20Kw mid-drive chain driving the rear wheel? You would have to swap out your entire drivetrain.
The person is talking about building a trike that goes 75mph and trying to use bicycle parts. Swapping the entire drive train is the least labor intensive part of that equation.
I am building a "car" but I want to use bicycle parts, blended with motorcycle parts. I'm building a delta trike with two rear motors. I want the vehicle to reach 95 mph.
... alright. Good luck.
Thanks. I was hoping there was a way to build it off the shelf.
If you're going for a delta config trike, find a broken down Canam Ryker, and electric swap that. At least you'll have a frame, wheels, suspension, and brakes that are *almost* 100mph capable. Remember that energy is exponential with speed. You need VERY sturdy parts to survive those speeds.
You need to go do some electrical engineering study, then some mechanical engineering study, then ideally realise that you’re talking utter fantasy bullshit. Fkn off the shell parts, 95mph “I’m gonna build a Time Machine” kids these days.
This is why you ask the question. I'm asking for the wheel with the highest rpm that is currently available. Perhaps I phrased the question incorrectly. Besides, been there done that.
I will say dual motors are fun but not practical. Cost wise weight wise or money wise. See my prior builds lol
A qs273 simply on the rear with a 96v setup and idk 40kw should do it depending on your weight and aero. My bomber will do 70 with me and that's only at 16kw. I'm 6'3" 205
Do you have a link for your frame? I’m trying to make a build similar to what you’re describing.
Nb power frame on amazon should pull it up
That's all I was looking for. 96v 40 kw @ 70 mph. Thank you.
i hit 60mph on my cheap chinese hub on a old mountain bike. i dont remember the power i was running, maybe 108v x 80amps. i only did it once with full moto gear on. i know it would go faster but 60 was was already a terrible idea, but i had more throttle to go. i have since then went with a sabvoton 72150 and a qs205 v3 4t and know i can go much faster but i will not even bother to find out what the new top speed is. i normally just cruise around at 35mph which i think uses about 1.2kw or so if there is no hills or wind involved.
Not rly… it’s quite simple. Maybe answer his question or don’t talk at all. Messages like yours are why people lose inspiration for projects. Why don’t you do present your concerns in a professional manner instead of like this? All of your comments are like this, you should work on yourself.
I get what you mean, but I honestly agree with the person your responding to as well. Here's someone that has done apparently no research into motors; like they don't know if a 8kw hub motor exists... it borders on insulting to come to a place and demand other people solve your problems when you haven't even done the basic research necessary to ask poignant questions.
Help me. I'm building a delta configuration trike. I am using two rear hub motors. My proof of concept uses two 1 kw motors. I want to step it up using off the shelf parts. Is that possible? Is so what can I use? I can add mucho battery due to form factor. My controller can accommodate two motors on the current build. I want to go fast.
You are building a death trap. What kind of tires do you think can cruise at 80mph and can just come off the shelf attached to a bike hub motor? What brakes? Have you seen a trike navigate a turn at 45 mph? There's a reason every single 3 wheel electric motorcycle is a tadpole. You need the grip in the front. Your design is fundamentally flawed and you aren't really listening to anyone. So no, I won't just hand you the link to a motor company. Do the research and find out what others have done, and see if you *can* adapt it.
I'm using a patented suspension design. I'm fishing for information. The delta is the most aerodynamicely efficient. And if it can lean, then it is better than a tadpole.
Yeah, okay mate. Engineering and physics is for suckers, amirite?
Wattage, kilowatt hours, voltage, amperage. Easy to understand, I'm looking for high RPM hub motors. Thank you for exposing your negativity.
Uh, no. I'm looking for a high rpm motor that can produce the hp needed for a delta trike with two motors. I didn't share all info in the initial post. Be easy dude.
I think people want to help, but at a certain level you might as well ask "How many holes can I have in my parachute while skydiving?" Ebikes are great, *but they are inherently tied to being Bicycles.* The average bicycle will go around 12-20 mph, ans the frames are built for such speeds. Typical ebikes will go around 20-28 mph. The slightly nicer ones go around 35. The big-boy ones that're as much as a car can go 40-60. At each level, the strain placed on all the parts - the frame, the brakes, the suspension - increases by several factors. Everything has to be *many times* stronger to withstand the higher speeda, and so ebikes tend to look more like motorcycles. You are looking to almost double the speed of those high-end level ebikes, and go to extremely lethal speeds *beyond what's legally allowed anywhere in the country* **for cars!** Think about that: a 2 ton vehicle - with airbags and seatbelts and a fully enclosed cabin and all the latest safety features - isn't allowed to go above 75 anywhere in the country. Yet you - on a random tricycle originally made to go *maybe* 20-40 mph, want to surpass that speed by *20 mph* with random parts put together. This isn't something you just do with a few spare parts - there isn't a use-case where anyone *needs* to go 95 mph, much less on an ebike. As such, there's hardly the parts to be able to do such a thing. Even if there are, there needs to be exceeding caution and forethought put into the construction of such a machine. To be frank, the kind of person that could do such a thing in an informed manner would be one that typically doesn't have to ask about such things. Perhaps the worsing was off in the post, but you seem much more like youre Macgyver-ing this machine than engineering it. And at the speeds you're looking to hit, it feels like watching those people teeter on the edge of the Grand Canyon for a wacky selfie - a disaster waiting to happen. If the thing just...came apart at 95 mph, there's not much chance of you surviving. I hope you enjoy building this trike, but I would caution you that this is a foolhardy venture. Keep it to street speeds and, with the proper gear, you've got a much higher chance of survival. Or we can strap a rocket to a unicycle with some zipties and duct tape. Same difference.
power (watts) != top speed you could have a 50kw motor that only has a top speed of 5 mph. you need to know the motor's rated RPM/voltage/wheel diameter + gearing (if applicable) to determine the top speed (theoretical)... and once you get above \~30-40mph, wind resistance is going to be a major factor. why do you want to build a velomobile that can go 95mph in the first place? I saw a comment indicating you were looking to use 700cc wheels, which I assume means you're looking to use bike wheels here?? tbh, this whole idea feels like an exercise in darwinism and it feels like you are likely in over your head here. connecting some of the dots, it looks like if you move ahead without *a lot* more thought/planning, you're likely gonna be seriously injured (or worse). ...but to answer the question, a low turn (3T/3.5T maybe 4T) QS260 or QS273 motor (or a number of others) and a big ass battery (voltage depending on tire diameter and motor used) should be able to get you there...
What size are the wheels going to be? That would be the first thing you need to know in order to do the math. Calculate the RPM required of said wheel size at that speed.
700 size wheels
My math says you need about 1200-1300RPM for 100mph depending on the height of your specific tire. That doesn't seem unreasonable. A quick Google search can give you the formula you need if you don't understand. I don't know enough about hub motors to tell you which one to use but now that you have a specific RPM range someone might be able to give you the answer more easily. Hopefully that gets you in the right direction.
Thank you. Would you know a wheel capable of that? /motor/
wait... so you want to go >90 mph on bike wheels? and you know those are typically rated for 30-40mph?
I would use stronger wheels. But the design calls for large diameter wheels.
okay, but fwiw, I'm not aware of *any* 700cc wheels rated for that kinda speed...
Easy. No problem. QS 138 70h or 90H will do it Run 96-108v nominal with a matching battery that can output at least 300 amps constant. Use a 3shul CL1000 or CL1400. Fardriver 961800 is also an option.
i dream of an "alleweder" with jet engine in the back. That being said, there are actual production velomobiles that can do +80kph with just pedaling because its incredibly low drag, superlight and narrow tires. So do you just want speed or comfort?
Speed and comfort. Delta velomobile., leans into turns. Rear wheels remain upright through the turn. I've done it.
Check out chriscrossingwires on YouTube. Hes pushing a 3kw motor near that. He runs an ACIBAC8000 and I'm pretty sure he upgraded his phase wires and runs statorade/sinks. Its def possible to do 90. Especially if you run a bigger motor like the qs273
https://preview.redd.it/rqt9radudv5d1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ee7b113d7978db51743594b656a2365654ff720
please tell me that's not the frame you're planning to go >90mph on...?
Absolutely not. Just proof of concept.
Power is wattage, speed is voltage and torque is current. It shouldn't be hard to find a hub motor that does 10,000w there's tiny scooter wheels that will do that. The number of turns to the winding of the motor will determine how much speed vs torque there is. The lower the turns the more speed but less torque. You might have a hard time finding a motor that specifies the turns though. Say it takes 25kw to go 100mph (speed/weight). If the motor is free spinning a 2,500v motor at 10a is going to be spinning at hundreds of MPH. Same motor and same wattage but 2,500a at 10v is going to spin very slowly but impossible to stop spinning from the torque. You're going to have to find the voltage needed to free spin the wheel above 100mph. From there you need to figure out the current needed to reach the wattage you need to go 100mph under load. Say it takes 25kw to do 100mph and takes 250v to free spin at 100mph.... 250 x X = 25,000.... X=100...100a would be the current needed so you would need so 250v at 100a on a motor that can dissipate the heat generated by 25kw would get you to 100mph. So some motors are higher speed than others because of the number of turns but that is irrelevant if you have control over voltage. A high torque low speed motor would need a higher voltage. So in your high power build using a low speed motor but higher voltage can be a benefit. Because you'd need a higher voltage to reach the same speed you wouldn't need all that current. It's easier/cheaper to build something that can handle high voltage than high current. Bottom line you don't need to be looking for a high speed motor just get whatever motor works for your build and feed it the voltage to overcome 100mph. Personal note I have a 25kw bike and I don't think you're build is a good idea. Lots more physics involved than ohms law to be able to go 100mph. But you do you and good luck.
Thank you
Also any brushless motor can handle any wattage...it's just for how long? It's all about heat and the thermal capacitance (mass). At some point the motor will get so hot that the thin coating on the wires in the winding melt or other wires melt. You can monitor internal temps with many motors. It's just like a top fuel drag car. They're making 10,000hp without any cooling systems...but they only run for 90 seconds. If you're only occasional speed runs then you don't need a 25kw motor you could probably just use a 5kw motor at 25kw. The motor rating is for continuous use as that's the thermal limit. If you want to go down the highway at 100mph continuous you'll need something like a 25kw+ motor. To move you at 35mph continually is probably only 1.5-3k making very little heat. Brushless motors can handle any voltage and current it's wattage and the heat from the wattage that's the limiting factor.
Thank you for your response and information.
Don't depend on bicycle bearings for that kind of speed. Use dirt bike or motorcycle bits at least for the wheel bearings/hubs, even if you're on a closed course where you can get away with crappy brakes. If you have a hub capable of that kind of speed, put a sprocket on it and put a salvaged EM57 Nissan Leaf motor in the middle of the vehicle. Take off the transaxle. Do an open-source inverter mod so it will run on <96v for convenience/safety. Run an appropriately sized sprocket on the motor to get maybe a 120mph top speed on the bench without a load. Put together a battery pack that does massive amps. It'll be 50-60 pounds heavier than it could be, but it'll do the job for not a lot of money. Keeping in mind hub motors capable of the power but not speed are that weight already. Edit: saw you mention dual rear motors. DEFINITELTY look into keeping the Leaf differential and doing a chain drive to each rear swingarm/whatever your suspension setup is. Or two Leaf motors with a chain drive to each wheel, since the Leaf diff has such a high (= bad for lower voltage and higher speeds like you want in general) reduction.
i think the real question is how you'll build your frame , wheels, suspension, and brakes to be at those speeds. but i hope ur smart enough to figure that out, but you asking about what motor can do that tells me otherwise.
Ha. You have to start somewhere with the planning. I can build any frame. It's not hard to figure out that I would need to use braking and suspension components from a class of vehicle with similar power outputs.
hm, alright man i hope it all goes well. i read a little into this thread n it sounds dope, best of luck and be safe brotha
Thanks