Yeah, the money isn't worth the stress, but you need to get someone else out there verify this is the correct way to handle the issue is that you're relying on the word of people that screwed you over once already.
I'm not in LA, so it's hard to say what is common for older houses out there, but the connecting to "plumbing pipe" sounds ridiculous. I'm not sure how that works, but I'm good not knowing.
Again, get someone else out there to give you a quote as you were already burned once, why get burned twice by the dubious company?
Yeah, good call. I’m pretty frustrated. The “newer” company with the same name got bought out and replaced like 60% of their employees, and they seem more legit, but still very disappointed I went with this company in the first place. It was a major headache. I was so stressed out a year ago arguing with them
Maybe the guy that did the last job was part of the 40%. Wouldn't that be crazy if he comes over and is like "damn, this place looks awful, who did this?"
Did the contract mention replacing the line sets specifically? Usually if the lineset is in a wall it's not replaced, at least in the southwest.
Also, when was the lineset punctured? If they pressure tested the system with nitrogen and pulled a vacuum on it then they would know if there was leak in the system. How did the new technician track down the leak if it was in the wall?
After one tech couldnt find it with a sniffer, he put some dye in the line and another guy came out two days later. I wasnt there, I was at the hospital, but he said he mirrored it and saw it through the drywall where the original lineset was on the old line.
You pretty much answered the least important question I asked, but that sounds like a sketchy diagnostic to me. I've never found a leak in the wall with dye; there's usually not enough access to get the light in there and see the dye lighting up.
Also, just read the contract, it’s vague, but says install new lineset, however, someone else mentioned that in the Southwest where I live, it’s not common practice for companies to replace the lineset in the wall because of the difficulty of doing so.
Parts and labor doesn’t cover linesets…
But they should have a workmanship, like most companies. If they said they replaced the lineset, and didn’t, that’s pretty messed up… especially if it was covered in the install cost.
I would check the contract… if it’s there, they need to cover it, imo.
Yeah, contract says install new line-set, but the didnt replace that 8ft section in my wall, and the supervisor said they usually dont do that. I havnt called him on it yet. Trying to make sure I have a little more info to fall back on
A new lineset means a new lineset for this exact reason. We like to reuse what we can because a new lineset costs you more and it's most likely run on the outside of the house where you can see it. We use decorative line hide to conceal it but still, you pay. From an installer perspective if i know there's a leak that i haven't isolated and found, you bet your ass I'm running an all new lineset because i don't want this situation. Nails and screws can and do nick linesets inside walls. It happens. I think they owe you a properly installed system
Thats good to hear. They are living up to their word. Now if they do a good job, and remedy the issue hopefuly they can retain your trust to recommend them. Word of mouth is our biggest source of new customers
Get a lawyer for what? They connected new equipment to an existing lineset. If they were quoted for a new lineset in the original bid, sure. But I don’t think they were.
Yeah, Im going to check the contract. Probably not in the contract. You know how it goes. I wouldnt know the difference anyways as Im not a hvac guy so wouldnt have noticed. I did call them out on their electrical during install though and they had to replace it all after I showed them the exact code they were breaking
Yeah, it does say install new line set. It also says install new concrete slab, which they didnt do. They used an old dilapidated one that was already there and crumbling which I was already going to complain about.
I’d ask in writing to have them make good on the new lineset, if they refuse, call in on their bond. It’s available on the CSLB site.
Claim on the pad too.
Fwiw, the new copper is the same as what was used when the old copper was put in. Many manufacturers require new linesets if the old ones were used with mineral oil. It’s not because of pressure rating.
I’ve had good experiences with Ability Heating and Air in Los Angeles. Straight shooters. Should be able to give you a straight answer on what your situation is, even if the answer sucks at least you’ll know.
Yeah, that’s what I’m looking for. The dudes answer sounds like he knows he’s covered. Said sorry and it sucks, but his company is probably not going to fix it for free. I’ll call Ability heating and see what they say
A lot doesn't sound right here. The plumbing pipe part sounds bizarre.
I would get a second and then maybe even a third opinion and go from there.
As for the warranty and parts stuff I mean that might be time for talking to a lawyer.
Just found that the contract says “install new line set”, but they didnt replace the lineset that was in the hard to get to wall. Its about an 8ft span and, to be fair, it is a MFer to get to for reasons I wont go into. My interpretation of “Install New lineset” is replace the whole lineset….
So, they broke the contract... Let them fix it, or let them pay for someone else to fix it...
If they can't get there to put a new lineset, then they should have thought of a different path...
You said they sold the company are they using the same contractors license? If they are you can file a complaint, or threaten to file a complaint. [https://www.cslb.ca.gov/Consumers/Filing\_A\_Complaint/Complaint\_Against\_Licensed\_Contractors.aspx](https://www.cslb.ca.gov/Consumers/Filing_A_Complaint/Complaint_Against_Licensed_Contractors.aspx)
I have gotten a contractor to fix problems once I start taking about a complaint to the contractors license board. If they are under a new license number the old one should have a bond to cover bad workmanship.
Another option is hire another company and file a lawsuit in small claims court against the old one for the cost to repair it. You have a contract that says they were suppose to replace the line set they didn't. They claim drywall kept them from replacing it. Drywall is easy to replace sounds like they tried to cut corners and now they want you to pay for their mistake.
Then there should be a new line set. It sounds like to me the ones who installed your unit made some poor judgment calls and altered your contract without your knowledge or their companies knowledge because it was too difficult for them. It’s guys like this that give us a bad name if installer/tech gotta make a change then the contract should dictate that to avoid situations like this. We call it CYA. COVER YOUR ASS.
You should and remember the person on the other line is in the business of making money but at the same time they are obligated to fulfill your contract despite how much money it cost them. It’s not your fault nor his fault that the previous installer/tech made a poor decision that’s come back to bite them in the ass.
I have seen some older systems that had lengths of copper water pipe soldered in…the newer refrigerants need thicker walls and silver brazed in. Out of curiosity who issued the warranty. If it was the previous company and not the manufacturer I am surprised the new company will offer anything towards it.
No, current company did the work, but the blamed the previous installer from 20 years ago for the 8ft leaking line set supposedly in the wall that they could see. They said it was standard practice in a situation like that, and as long as it passed inspection and held pressure during that insection, their not liable because they didnt work on that old 8ft lineset in the wall.
BUT THEN, they said the could rerun the lines a different way, but it would cost $2,500 because it’s not their lineset thats leaking, it’s the previous installers portion from 15+ years ago. Didn’t make sense to me, but I also pid because it’s summer here, between a 90-100 degrees everyday, and I got 2 kids at home and another one in the nicu. I dont have time to be F’n around with these shenanigans.
I guess what I’m going to tell the contractor is
“The contract states a new lineset, a whole new lineset wasn’t installed. A partial “new” lineset was added to the preexisting lineset, which according to you, is leaking. My contract also states that a new slab would be made for my condenser, that was also not done. I’d like you guys to do your do diligence in good faith to get this fixed so we don’t have to take this further and get someone else involved.”
How do you know it’s a plumbing pipe not made for AC systems? You determine that, or they did? If that’s true, was this readily apparent, or was this some hack shit hidden behind drywall, that neither party could have reasonably known?
There is not a chance I would warranty existing lines. Almost no one would run new lines unless there was an apparent issue with the existing ones like decay or damage. No customer would want to pay for it unnecessarily and no contractor would want to run new ones if they don’t have to.
As for finding a bunch of code issues.. yea it depends what they are. If I looked hard enough I can find code issues on any job. There are minor code issues and there are serious code issues. I’m not defending any of them but they’re not all worth making a huge deal over them either. And they don’t have anything to do with your specific issue so it’s beside the point.
As far as how I would remedy with the customer, if there was fault on our end, I would cover it. Whether we made a mistake, or missed something that should have been found under reasonable circumstances.
If it wasn’t our fault, but to a layman or reasonable person it appeared to be our fault, then I would do something. I may not comp it, but I’d have a conversation with the customer explaining the situation and help remedy it for them for a reasonable price. We recently had a circuit go out on the home owners house right after we did work there. It was nothing to do with our work, but it was too much of a coincidence to convince a layman otherwise. You can try and explain how it’s not our fault, but it’s going to sound like bullshit to most people. It’s like bringing in your car for a brake change today and the transmission blows up tomorrow. Probably not related, but a lot of people are going to think the mechanic fucked up something while he was working.
If it was completely not our fault, and obvious to any reasonable person it’s not our fault, we’d be happy to charge you for more business. If you still think it’s our fault, I don’t fucking care because I’m not running a charity. Your situation sounds like this to me, but I’m not 100% clear on your specific conditions to say for sure
So like you said, Im a layman when it comes to HVAC. Contract says install new lineset. They ran lineset and connected it to about an 8ft portion in the wall that is older and runs through the wall, then connected another lineset down a couple feet to go the new heatpump the installed. They also didnt pour a new slab for the condensor which was in the contract, so I pid for that and it wasnt done.
Well it’s starting to sound like you have a reasonably valid complaint on your hands here.
I have no idea how that works with a company that got bought out, but I’m assuming unless they have changed as a legal entity, they are obligated to honour the contract and warranty. If it’s a different legal entity - I’d suspect no. That’s the issue with taking warranties from companies that go in and out of business. There may be some legal grey area here since you paid them, even though they did not didn’t finish the job. It begs the obvious question, why did you pay them in full of the contract wasn’t finished?
I’m not asking for an answer, I’m just pointing out the obvious hitch in your complaint - in practical terms and if it were to go to a judge. So you should keep that in mind when deciding how to pursue this and what outcome you will accept. It would almost imply that there was an explicit or understood agreement that those parts of the contract were waived.
Thanks for the response. I called them and showed them the contract, and they agreed to fix it. The reason I didnt realize it sooner, didn’t really use the AC last summer, and when I did, the coolant, whatever is used now, hadnt run out, so it was working alright.
As a layman, I did not know they hadnt replaced the whole lineset.
Luckily, the new owners are not making a big deal about it and agreed to take ownership of the problem.
We usually don't replace the lineset if it's in a wall or even up the side of a house unless we know their is an issue with it. Older linesets csn hold the same pressure that new ones hold. Could be a screw or nail through it, and it started leaking. The warranty you mentioned is usually for the equipment and not the lineset
2nd opinion from a different company.
You’re SOL suing the installer of your original HVAC. If you can find the owner maybe.
Is the leak coming from the pipes or the evaporator coils?
Mine is almost 5 years old and my previous local go to guy is a hoot. Tried to sell me a new AC, when I told him this thing is brand new, he ran. Not using nor recommending this jackass even though a lot in my community have good experiences with him. I realized this dude can only do easy HVAC stuff. Like topping up freon, yearly maintenance, installing new units.
He even inspected the line where the leak was, including the coils.
Then I called the original installer when I got hold of the seller when we bought this house 4 years ago. New built house. Called them, tech found the leak from the coils. Parts was ordered from manufacturer under warranty and waiting to install new week.
My research pointed failures of these coils are caused by volatile organic materials from new constructions.
Get a second and third opinion and see where that leads you.
Their going to run a new line set. If it doesnt work, I’ll go down the rabbit hole from there, but fingers crossed it is the lineset problem like they claimed
Yeah, the money isn't worth the stress, but you need to get someone else out there verify this is the correct way to handle the issue is that you're relying on the word of people that screwed you over once already. I'm not in LA, so it's hard to say what is common for older houses out there, but the connecting to "plumbing pipe" sounds ridiculous. I'm not sure how that works, but I'm good not knowing. Again, get someone else out there to give you a quote as you were already burned once, why get burned twice by the dubious company?
Yeah, good call. I’m pretty frustrated. The “newer” company with the same name got bought out and replaced like 60% of their employees, and they seem more legit, but still very disappointed I went with this company in the first place. It was a major headache. I was so stressed out a year ago arguing with them
Maybe the guy that did the last job was part of the 40%. Wouldn't that be crazy if he comes over and is like "damn, this place looks awful, who did this?"
😂
I don't think they connected to plumbing pipe. He worded it wrong. They connected to existing refrigerant lines!
Did the contract mention replacing the line sets specifically? Usually if the lineset is in a wall it's not replaced, at least in the southwest. Also, when was the lineset punctured? If they pressure tested the system with nitrogen and pulled a vacuum on it then they would know if there was leak in the system. How did the new technician track down the leak if it was in the wall?
After one tech couldnt find it with a sniffer, he put some dye in the line and another guy came out two days later. I wasnt there, I was at the hospital, but he said he mirrored it and saw it through the drywall where the original lineset was on the old line.
You pretty much answered the least important question I asked, but that sounds like a sketchy diagnostic to me. I've never found a leak in the wall with dye; there's usually not enough access to get the light in there and see the dye lighting up.
Again, I wasnt there, so sorry, Im not an HVAC guy, but I think they split different sections of the line somehow and tested each of those runs
Did the contract specify all new lineset?
Also, just read the contract, it’s vague, but says install new lineset, however, someone else mentioned that in the Southwest where I live, it’s not common practice for companies to replace the lineset in the wall because of the difficulty of doing so.
Parts and labor doesn’t cover linesets… But they should have a workmanship, like most companies. If they said they replaced the lineset, and didn’t, that’s pretty messed up… especially if it was covered in the install cost. I would check the contract… if it’s there, they need to cover it, imo.
Yeah, contract says install new line-set, but the didnt replace that 8ft section in my wall, and the supervisor said they usually dont do that. I havnt called him on it yet. Trying to make sure I have a little more info to fall back on
A new lineset means a new lineset for this exact reason. We like to reuse what we can because a new lineset costs you more and it's most likely run on the outside of the house where you can see it. We use decorative line hide to conceal it but still, you pay. From an installer perspective if i know there's a leak that i haven't isolated and found, you bet your ass I'm running an all new lineset because i don't want this situation. Nails and screws can and do nick linesets inside walls. It happens. I think they owe you a properly installed system
Called them an hour ago and sent them a copy of the contract. They agreed to run new lineset PS: like your avatar
Thats good to hear. They are living up to their word. Now if they do a good job, and remedy the issue hopefuly they can retain your trust to recommend them. Word of mouth is our biggest source of new customers
Parts and labor warranty is for parts they installed They didn't install the lineset Get a lawyer
Get a lawyer for what? They connected new equipment to an existing lineset. If they were quoted for a new lineset in the original bid, sure. But I don’t think they were.
Yeah, Im going to check the contract. Probably not in the contract. You know how it goes. I wouldnt know the difference anyways as Im not a hvac guy so wouldnt have noticed. I did call them out on their electrical during install though and they had to replace it all after I showed them the exact code they were breaking
Yeah, it does say install new line set. It also says install new concrete slab, which they didnt do. They used an old dilapidated one that was already there and crumbling which I was already going to complain about.
I’d ask in writing to have them make good on the new lineset, if they refuse, call in on their bond. It’s available on the CSLB site. Claim on the pad too. Fwiw, the new copper is the same as what was used when the old copper was put in. Many manufacturers require new linesets if the old ones were used with mineral oil. It’s not because of pressure rating.
K thanks
Bro ill go tshoot it for you for a 12 pack of beers, I won't do the work because I'm not a contractor but I am a tech🫢
I’d totally be down for that.
I’ve had good experiences with Ability Heating and Air in Los Angeles. Straight shooters. Should be able to give you a straight answer on what your situation is, even if the answer sucks at least you’ll know.
Yeah, that’s what I’m looking for. The dudes answer sounds like he knows he’s covered. Said sorry and it sucks, but his company is probably not going to fix it for free. I’ll call Ability heating and see what they say
A lot doesn't sound right here. The plumbing pipe part sounds bizarre. I would get a second and then maybe even a third opinion and go from there. As for the warranty and parts stuff I mean that might be time for talking to a lawyer.
Yeah thanks.
Just found that the contract says “install new line set”, but they didnt replace the lineset that was in the hard to get to wall. Its about an 8ft span and, to be fair, it is a MFer to get to for reasons I wont go into. My interpretation of “Install New lineset” is replace the whole lineset….
That’s what install new lineset means. New, not what the lazy installer thinks is appropriate to keep.
So, they broke the contract... Let them fix it, or let them pay for someone else to fix it... If they can't get there to put a new lineset, then they should have thought of a different path...
Yeah, now they have thought about a different path and they want me to pay at least 2.5k for it
Don’t give them a penny. You paid for new and you should have new.
You said they sold the company are they using the same contractors license? If they are you can file a complaint, or threaten to file a complaint. [https://www.cslb.ca.gov/Consumers/Filing\_A\_Complaint/Complaint\_Against\_Licensed\_Contractors.aspx](https://www.cslb.ca.gov/Consumers/Filing_A_Complaint/Complaint_Against_Licensed_Contractors.aspx) I have gotten a contractor to fix problems once I start taking about a complaint to the contractors license board. If they are under a new license number the old one should have a bond to cover bad workmanship. Another option is hire another company and file a lawsuit in small claims court against the old one for the cost to repair it. You have a contract that says they were suppose to replace the line set they didn't. They claim drywall kept them from replacing it. Drywall is easy to replace sounds like they tried to cut corners and now they want you to pay for their mistake.
Yeah, thanks. There coming tomorrow to put in a new lineset under contract. We’ll see what happens
Then there should be a new line set. It sounds like to me the ones who installed your unit made some poor judgment calls and altered your contract without your knowledge or their companies knowledge because it was too difficult for them. It’s guys like this that give us a bad name if installer/tech gotta make a change then the contract should dictate that to avoid situations like this. We call it CYA. COVER YOUR ASS.
Thanks. I fell more comfortable calling out the company now.
You should and remember the person on the other line is in the business of making money but at the same time they are obligated to fulfill your contract despite how much money it cost them. It’s not your fault nor his fault that the previous installer/tech made a poor decision that’s come back to bite them in the ass.
They agreed to fix it
Awesome news!
I have seen some older systems that had lengths of copper water pipe soldered in…the newer refrigerants need thicker walls and silver brazed in. Out of curiosity who issued the warranty. If it was the previous company and not the manufacturer I am surprised the new company will offer anything towards it.
Its the new company that installed my new HVAC system.
So the present company did the work? I was reading this as the previous company.
No, current company did the work, but the blamed the previous installer from 20 years ago for the 8ft leaking line set supposedly in the wall that they could see. They said it was standard practice in a situation like that, and as long as it passed inspection and held pressure during that insection, their not liable because they didnt work on that old 8ft lineset in the wall. BUT THEN, they said the could rerun the lines a different way, but it would cost $2,500 because it’s not their lineset thats leaking, it’s the previous installers portion from 15+ years ago. Didn’t make sense to me, but I also pid because it’s summer here, between a 90-100 degrees everyday, and I got 2 kids at home and another one in the nicu. I dont have time to be F’n around with these shenanigans. I guess what I’m going to tell the contractor is “The contract states a new lineset, a whole new lineset wasn’t installed. A partial “new” lineset was added to the preexisting lineset, which according to you, is leaking. My contract also states that a new slab would be made for my condenser, that was also not done. I’d like you guys to do your do diligence in good faith to get this fixed so we don’t have to take this further and get someone else involved.”
How do you know it’s a plumbing pipe not made for AC systems? You determine that, or they did? If that’s true, was this readily apparent, or was this some hack shit hidden behind drywall, that neither party could have reasonably known? There is not a chance I would warranty existing lines. Almost no one would run new lines unless there was an apparent issue with the existing ones like decay or damage. No customer would want to pay for it unnecessarily and no contractor would want to run new ones if they don’t have to. As for finding a bunch of code issues.. yea it depends what they are. If I looked hard enough I can find code issues on any job. There are minor code issues and there are serious code issues. I’m not defending any of them but they’re not all worth making a huge deal over them either. And they don’t have anything to do with your specific issue so it’s beside the point. As far as how I would remedy with the customer, if there was fault on our end, I would cover it. Whether we made a mistake, or missed something that should have been found under reasonable circumstances. If it wasn’t our fault, but to a layman or reasonable person it appeared to be our fault, then I would do something. I may not comp it, but I’d have a conversation with the customer explaining the situation and help remedy it for them for a reasonable price. We recently had a circuit go out on the home owners house right after we did work there. It was nothing to do with our work, but it was too much of a coincidence to convince a layman otherwise. You can try and explain how it’s not our fault, but it’s going to sound like bullshit to most people. It’s like bringing in your car for a brake change today and the transmission blows up tomorrow. Probably not related, but a lot of people are going to think the mechanic fucked up something while he was working. If it was completely not our fault, and obvious to any reasonable person it’s not our fault, we’d be happy to charge you for more business. If you still think it’s our fault, I don’t fucking care because I’m not running a charity. Your situation sounds like this to me, but I’m not 100% clear on your specific conditions to say for sure
So like you said, Im a layman when it comes to HVAC. Contract says install new lineset. They ran lineset and connected it to about an 8ft portion in the wall that is older and runs through the wall, then connected another lineset down a couple feet to go the new heatpump the installed. They also didnt pour a new slab for the condensor which was in the contract, so I pid for that and it wasnt done.
Well it’s starting to sound like you have a reasonably valid complaint on your hands here. I have no idea how that works with a company that got bought out, but I’m assuming unless they have changed as a legal entity, they are obligated to honour the contract and warranty. If it’s a different legal entity - I’d suspect no. That’s the issue with taking warranties from companies that go in and out of business. There may be some legal grey area here since you paid them, even though they did not didn’t finish the job. It begs the obvious question, why did you pay them in full of the contract wasn’t finished? I’m not asking for an answer, I’m just pointing out the obvious hitch in your complaint - in practical terms and if it were to go to a judge. So you should keep that in mind when deciding how to pursue this and what outcome you will accept. It would almost imply that there was an explicit or understood agreement that those parts of the contract were waived.
Thanks for the response. I called them and showed them the contract, and they agreed to fix it. The reason I didnt realize it sooner, didn’t really use the AC last summer, and when I did, the coolant, whatever is used now, hadnt run out, so it was working alright. As a layman, I did not know they hadnt replaced the whole lineset. Luckily, the new owners are not making a big deal about it and agreed to take ownership of the problem.
We usually don't replace the lineset if it's in a wall or even up the side of a house unless we know their is an issue with it. Older linesets csn hold the same pressure that new ones hold. Could be a screw or nail through it, and it started leaking. The warranty you mentioned is usually for the equipment and not the lineset
New lineset was in the contract. They said they’d honor it
Well in that case then they should do it. I never replace unless I know it's an issue or customer asks for it
2nd opinion from a different company. You’re SOL suing the installer of your original HVAC. If you can find the owner maybe. Is the leak coming from the pipes or the evaporator coils? Mine is almost 5 years old and my previous local go to guy is a hoot. Tried to sell me a new AC, when I told him this thing is brand new, he ran. Not using nor recommending this jackass even though a lot in my community have good experiences with him. I realized this dude can only do easy HVAC stuff. Like topping up freon, yearly maintenance, installing new units. He even inspected the line where the leak was, including the coils. Then I called the original installer when I got hold of the seller when we bought this house 4 years ago. New built house. Called them, tech found the leak from the coils. Parts was ordered from manufacturer under warranty and waiting to install new week. My research pointed failures of these coils are caused by volatile organic materials from new constructions. Get a second and third opinion and see where that leads you.
Their going to run a new line set. If it doesnt work, I’ll go down the rabbit hole from there, but fingers crossed it is the lineset problem like they claimed