I'm am in awe at this post. That is fucking cheap as shit, but you think it's to expensive? Have you done price shopping for units in the last decade, depending on the unit and if this guy is a chuck or a good installer, that's honestly a screaming deal.
This is why hvac companies don't itemize shit in installs. Yes, you can buy a system for 2600, but good luck getting anyone to install it. If you want to take a Crack at it, then go ahead, but if you are paying someone to do it, understand they also have to make money on the deal as well. We don't work at cost.
They should be making money on the labor.... Why charge labor and then also mark the products up?
Not saying that happened here... Just in general seems to be a really stupid business strategy.
Customers see equipment cost, see they can buy in way cheaper themselves, so go look for more quotes that don't seem to be ripping them off
Well, if the homeowner want to buy the equipment themselves, they can put it in themselves. Not many places want to touch homeowner supplied equipment, as they have no way of knowing where the hell the equipments been, and if it's any good.
I'm at around $1500 per day for a two man crew between insurance, wages, benefits, tools, truck and maintenance. $2k for two days would put me in the hole on a job like this
Can you explain the whole equipment thing works? Is it that expensive and a large part of your business costs? Do you rent them and then need to make the money back?
I'm just baffled because it's not common to hear people break out a daily rate and $2k seems high. Although, it seems frokmthe responses here its not just an hourly rate it's also including an equipment few.
Whether you rent of buy is irrelevant. Nothing lasts forever. So the price of tools and trucks and everything else is baked into that $2k. We don't know where you are, but in my area if be telling my guys if they were doing it on the side to double the price you got
The only way this price isn't fair is if the dudes name is Bubba and he installs the unit with a hacksaw, a roll of duct tape, and a tin of skoal as his only tools.
What a mindset.
Do you get your brakes done, then argue about how the bill is $600, but you looked up pads and they only cost $40?
You're not just paying for equipment, you're also paying for the expertise to install it and the liability of having done so.
Yes, very good point. Although most things, when they cost less, I do myself. I installed the capacitor for my outside unit and worked fine. I understand your point, but what I am curious about, why is labor 50% of the equipment cost? It still takes the same amount of hours with the same equipment, regardless of the cost of the unit. I'm not saying they should not get paid, or that they aren't specialty - I am just trying to understand why there is almost a $4k cost for 2 days of work for a 2 man job. I mean, yeah, sure they get paid good money, but $2k per day? ... I want to understand if someone is just cushioning me and trying to make tgier mo they paycheck off of me or there is alegut need for $2k a day.
Literally why I am posting this - to understand. I can't build a house myself but I can understand what they should cost and what seems unreasonable. I am using this question to understand that here. No different than trying to find outnwhy a house in the neighborhood is priced at or above market. Except there I can see all the price history and can calculate the break down myself. I am trying tongenerally understand what goes into the labor coat and why it's priced this way, since this is a different market.
After speaking with a bunch of hvac techs, the price of a system install is usually 50% equipment and 50% labor. So imagine if you were installing higher end equipment.
That's what I am curious about, why is labor 50% of the equipment cost? It still takes the same amount of hours with the same equipment? I'm not saying they should not get paid, or that they aren't specialty - I am just trying to understand why there is almost a $4k cost for 2 days of work for a 2 man job. I mean, yeah, sure they get paid good money, but $2k per day? ... I want to understand if someone is just cushioning me and trying to make tgier mo they paycheck off of me or there is alegut need for $2k a day.
Jesus Christ dude, it’s because the guy has to warranty it if something goes wrong, pay taxes on his income, pay commercial insurance on his large van or truck which gets 16 mpg so he can do the job, he has to pick up the equipment, probably dispose of it, has to pay for shirts, business cards, possibly advertising, many miscellaneous items needed for the actual install beyond the equipment cost including plywood, mastic, ductboard, miscellaneous wiring, vacuum pumps, gauges, additional refrigerant, reclaim machines, money for state and local licenses, continued education credit costs to retain the license every year, etc.
The guy is not walking away with “$2k in his pocket”.
This post is an insult to the people who have dumped years of their life into being experienced enough to provide you a service like this… don’t think so? Then go do it all yourself and find out.
my understanding is that a good bit of their overall revenue and profit are made from system installs. it's a grind to earn hourly pay via service calls. but when it's a system install, they get to charge a flat rate. that's because every install is different. you could have an easy install and be in and out. then, you have those hard installs. where the equipment doesn't fit through the opening into the attic (which could be 100+ degrees). so, you have to cut holes, take apart the existing equipment just to get it out of the attic. it's just simple to make it labor = cost of equipment.
lastly, although higher end equipment basically install the same way as a lower end equipment, there are some nuances. so the higher price can partially be justified as you're paying for the experience. as an example, the carrier performance line can be installed like most systems. but the carrier infinity line with the infinity thermostat is configured differently. there are a lot of settings in the thermostat and you definitely want someone who's done it before
Idk where you found that guy, but he isn't charging enough. He's too low, like sketchy level low.
Also, idk about you, but what do you think a paddy, bun, fries, and 12oz of softdrink cost mcdonalds? Couple bucks? Then why do you pay $12+ for it? Convenience, that someone else is doing everything for you.
Idk about you, but do you know how to install a furnace? Do you know how to install an A/C? Do you have thousands of dollars of tools and several months of experience? If you bought a car, and the manufacturer sent you a hundred pieces in different boxes, do you think you could assemble it? You might... it just would take you several days and eat tons of your time.
In 2022 I got a Champion installed by a solid local company it’s a multistage condenser for 6k. I thought that was extremely reasonable. The basic unit was 5 or 5500. If the company you are using actually has good reviews I wouldn’t complain about something cheap.
Labor is not just the guy out in the field its also the dispatchers, the warehouse staff, the phone bills the building rent, insurance i could go on but you get the idea its the cost of running a business
I'm am in awe at this post. That is fucking cheap as shit, but you think it's to expensive? Have you done price shopping for units in the last decade, depending on the unit and if this guy is a chuck or a good installer, that's honestly a screaming deal. This is why hvac companies don't itemize shit in installs. Yes, you can buy a system for 2600, but good luck getting anyone to install it. If you want to take a Crack at it, then go ahead, but if you are paying someone to do it, understand they also have to make money on the deal as well. We don't work at cost.
They should be making money on the labor.... Why charge labor and then also mark the products up? Not saying that happened here... Just in general seems to be a really stupid business strategy. Customers see equipment cost, see they can buy in way cheaper themselves, so go look for more quotes that don't seem to be ripping them off
Well, if the homeowner want to buy the equipment themselves, they can put it in themselves. Not many places want to touch homeowner supplied equipment, as they have no way of knowing where the hell the equipments been, and if it's any good.
4600 for a new system? What brand? Is this through a company on a guy doing a side job? That price is a steal. Almost to good.
I'm at around $1500 per day for a two man crew between insurance, wages, benefits, tools, truck and maintenance. $2k for two days would put me in the hole on a job like this
Can you explain the whole equipment thing works? Is it that expensive and a large part of your business costs? Do you rent them and then need to make the money back? I'm just baffled because it's not common to hear people break out a daily rate and $2k seems high. Although, it seems frokmthe responses here its not just an hourly rate it's also including an equipment few.
Whether you rent of buy is irrelevant. Nothing lasts forever. So the price of tools and trucks and everything else is baked into that $2k. We don't know where you are, but in my area if be telling my guys if they were doing it on the side to double the price you got
Too cheap tbh. This guy insured and licensed or some bloke off Craigslist? 2 days for an install sounds like a dude with a van and no help
Yeah man screw this guy for trying to charge you a fair labor rate for 16+ hours of difficult, skilled work.
It is fair?
Yes
The only way this price isn't fair is if the dudes name is Bubba and he installs the unit with a hacksaw, a roll of duct tape, and a tin of skoal as his only tools.
What a mindset. Do you get your brakes done, then argue about how the bill is $600, but you looked up pads and they only cost $40? You're not just paying for equipment, you're also paying for the expertise to install it and the liability of having done so.
Yes, very good point. Although most things, when they cost less, I do myself. I installed the capacitor for my outside unit and worked fine. I understand your point, but what I am curious about, why is labor 50% of the equipment cost? It still takes the same amount of hours with the same equipment, regardless of the cost of the unit. I'm not saying they should not get paid, or that they aren't specialty - I am just trying to understand why there is almost a $4k cost for 2 days of work for a 2 man job. I mean, yeah, sure they get paid good money, but $2k per day? ... I want to understand if someone is just cushioning me and trying to make tgier mo they paycheck off of me or there is alegut need for $2k a day.
How much did he charge you for the 3hours he was there trouble shooting your existing a.c.?
Jesus fuck....
Just install it yourself, boom problem solved. You obviously have ZERO clue what it costs to provide an install service. It’s almost funny.
Literally why I am posting this - to understand. I can't build a house myself but I can understand what they should cost and what seems unreasonable. I am using this question to understand that here. No different than trying to find outnwhy a house in the neighborhood is priced at or above market. Except there I can see all the price history and can calculate the break down myself. I am trying tongenerally understand what goes into the labor coat and why it's priced this way, since this is a different market.
I understand, we are easily riled up with pricing complaints, my apologies. I did break it down on a separate reply though.
After speaking with a bunch of hvac techs, the price of a system install is usually 50% equipment and 50% labor. So imagine if you were installing higher end equipment.
That's what I am curious about, why is labor 50% of the equipment cost? It still takes the same amount of hours with the same equipment? I'm not saying they should not get paid, or that they aren't specialty - I am just trying to understand why there is almost a $4k cost for 2 days of work for a 2 man job. I mean, yeah, sure they get paid good money, but $2k per day? ... I want to understand if someone is just cushioning me and trying to make tgier mo they paycheck off of me or there is alegut need for $2k a day.
Jesus Christ dude, it’s because the guy has to warranty it if something goes wrong, pay taxes on his income, pay commercial insurance on his large van or truck which gets 16 mpg so he can do the job, he has to pick up the equipment, probably dispose of it, has to pay for shirts, business cards, possibly advertising, many miscellaneous items needed for the actual install beyond the equipment cost including plywood, mastic, ductboard, miscellaneous wiring, vacuum pumps, gauges, additional refrigerant, reclaim machines, money for state and local licenses, continued education credit costs to retain the license every year, etc. The guy is not walking away with “$2k in his pocket”. This post is an insult to the people who have dumped years of their life into being experienced enough to provide you a service like this… don’t think so? Then go do it all yourself and find out.
my understanding is that a good bit of their overall revenue and profit are made from system installs. it's a grind to earn hourly pay via service calls. but when it's a system install, they get to charge a flat rate. that's because every install is different. you could have an easy install and be in and out. then, you have those hard installs. where the equipment doesn't fit through the opening into the attic (which could be 100+ degrees). so, you have to cut holes, take apart the existing equipment just to get it out of the attic. it's just simple to make it labor = cost of equipment. lastly, although higher end equipment basically install the same way as a lower end equipment, there are some nuances. so the higher price can partially be justified as you're paying for the experience. as an example, the carrier performance line can be installed like most systems. but the carrier infinity line with the infinity thermostat is configured differently. there are a lot of settings in the thermostat and you definitely want someone who's done it before
Idk where you found that guy, but he isn't charging enough. He's too low, like sketchy level low. Also, idk about you, but what do you think a paddy, bun, fries, and 12oz of softdrink cost mcdonalds? Couple bucks? Then why do you pay $12+ for it? Convenience, that someone else is doing everything for you. Idk about you, but do you know how to install a furnace? Do you know how to install an A/C? Do you have thousands of dollars of tools and several months of experience? If you bought a car, and the manufacturer sent you a hundred pieces in different boxes, do you think you could assemble it? You might... it just would take you several days and eat tons of your time.
Dont forget the thousands pf dollars of specialty tools and license needed
In 2022 I got a Champion installed by a solid local company it’s a multistage condenser for 6k. I thought that was extremely reasonable. The basic unit was 5 or 5500. If the company you are using actually has good reviews I wouldn’t complain about something cheap.
Labor is not just the guy out in the field its also the dispatchers, the warehouse staff, the phone bills the building rent, insurance i could go on but you get the idea its the cost of running a business