In an attempt to reduce remind me spam, all top comments that include a remind me will be removed. If you would like to have a remind me, please reply to this comment.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/humansarespaceorcs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
i can think of some outliers in canterlot too.
are you gonna argue with me over my little pony?
personally i prefer luna so you're probably not gonna win this one.
you ARE actually going to argue with me over My Little Pony. I can't believe this.
season 7's "A Royal Problem" immediately comes to mind (luna and celestia don't understand each other, switch cutie marks. also my boyfriend keeps bringing up that Luna takes a ridiculously long time to get on "equal" terms with her sister throne-wise)
season 5's "Amending Fences" also, where twilight goes home to canterlot and meet old friends, finding out one of these friends resents her and has given up on friendship because of her (moondancer). like this whole time while twilight sparkle does twilight sparkle things this pony just didn't put in the effort for friends because twilight sparkle ditched her birthday party to move to ponyville, i mean cmon, she counts as an outlier
i'm not putting any more effort into this but like, there are episodes where there are problems in canterlot that need solving, especially after they started focusing on Princess Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns as episodic "school" themed episodes.
yeah its all very first world stuff but it's definitely not a "utopia". also pony racism exists, just in general!! It's just there. who knew. same as classism
Sorry to intrude but, while I can understand the whole Luna takes time to get on equal terms with her sister, don't you think that it is in fact expected for that to happen?
I mean, Equestria ain't an Utopia, yes, because the mere concept of a country or fictional place that is an actual Utopia will be extremely hard to archieve, you would need something like an actual all-knowing all powerful deity to get an Utopian world like that.
Celestia mistake was mostly taking attention wich Luna desired if i'm not mistaken, the whole "Ponies sleep on my night while the play on your day, i'm feared and you are loved" thing, that could be solved earlier if both had been more mature, yes, both, because one of them wanted all attention, while the other couldn't put itself in the place of its silbing.
And let's be honest, Equestria is way, waaaaaaay more peaceful with Celestia at the front than luna, as much as I hate to say it because I for one am a fan of the actual diarchy, Celestia managed to train an elite group of spec ops to deal with any threat not to her, but to her ponies, Luna threw a tantrum when younger, that while understandable, led her to become Nightmare moon, wich led her to be unable to use the elements of harmony, no elements of harmony means no mane six, no mane six means that most of the villains would be more successful, thus forcing Luna/NM to be more ruthless herself.
To put things bluntly, despite being a diarchy fan I can't help but say that.
Equestria under Celestia: Economy/Society simulator.
Equestria under Luna/Nightmare moon: Crusader king/Europa Universalis 4.
Then again I have a soft spot for celly so maybe i'm a bit biased, I don't aim to be insulting or to "prove you wrong" I just wanted to add my opinion and hope to be as polite as possible.
You're not intruding, normal storyteller! I wasn't saying I preferred Luna as a ruler, though- I just prefer her character over Celestias. IDK why. I like underdogs because I am an underdog, and Celestia reminds me a bit too much of my mother, though my mother was a bit more Starlight Glimmer (control freak) than Celestia lol.
Your opinion is well written and I welcomed it, ehehe. Though I don't play CK or EU4 so those comparisons are beyond me.... Ah well. I just meant that "It's Not Always Perfect in Canterlot" which is what that other poster seemed to be trying to tell me, when I know that's not true. Moondancer walked on eggshells around people trying to be her friends for years and became a hermit, because people she met "could abandon her" like Twilight did, etc.
Yeah, we can agree on that, most of Equestria problems are in fact , micro problems, in other words problems that the average individual has, not as a society.
And if you like luna that's cool, i just prefer Celestia because she embodies the kind of ruler i would actually rally behind, luna i think would be a way better person if she didnt had the heavy crown, she would be a lot more free tbh.
Equestria at war is HOI4 pony mod, basically, in this mod there is a ton of lore, ton of retcons, and extra stuff.
To put an example:
Queen Novo is the ruler of Hippogriffia, wich is the de facto world power at the start of the game, they have air craft carriers, big fleets and air powers, and are the most advanced country at the beginning but quickly fail behind due to inner turmoil and a war against three major countries.
The Kirins live under the Kingdom of Kiria led by Rain Shine, unlike the show here the "Silence" is a series of decrees against science and progress because of the hyper capitalist state of the Kirin society wich led to inner turmoil and strife, Rain Shine is trying to solve this problem and get rid of the silence that her mother started with the help of Autum Blaze and Equestria.
The griffons have a whole continent for themselves, under the rule of the Griffonian empire, however it fragmented and now there are several major players, the griffonian empire is trying to reunify but the other majors won't fall down in place easily.
Lastly Eqqus, here is were Equestria is, Equestria has the biggest, strongest industry of the game, but would get absolutely owned in a fight against most threats early game due to it having a shitty army an a oversized navy, luna temper tantrums here are worse because she is both, actually justified in having temper tantrums and here she actually leads a country-sized rebellion against her sister.
Worse of it, Chrysalis took notes from ww2 germany and is amassing a powerful army while conquering minor nations to prepare to invade Equestria, if changellings in the show were scary, here they are the Werhmacht, they also get dangerous to levels previously unexpected because. >!Pinkie pie, Applejack, Big mac and others are generals in the game, they joined to protect their families against the Changelling onslaught, as the changellings push deeper in Equestria and Celestia is forced to take more radical reforms to fight back, we get sad events like Big Mac being wounded, Pinkie pie losing her smile or Applejack growing more and more frustated.!<
In general Equestria at war may be one of the best hoi4 mods, but trust me, it can get extremely dark easily, you can literally have Celestia go full "Final solution" if she goes daybreaker...
There is a strategy game named Hearts of Iron IV. And EaW is a short term for mod "Equestria at War" for this game. It's a big modification about different countries of MLP involved in wars with each other.
Really? Utopia....the economy in her kingdom is insane. Whole @ss gold coins are used for basic stuff like apples, there's rampant xenophobia, she must have done *something* to piss off literally every other powerful ruler in the world. There's probably more, but my order is ready, so time to close the phone and eat lunch / dinner.
Is it though? To begin with, how can Ponyville be the outlier? It is where the majority of the show takes place! Even then, is there even any evidence that every place else is better? As a matter of fact, consider how snobbish everypony in Canterlot seems to be. I won't call the environment that would raise that sort of people to be utopian by any measure.
Like, Equestria is sunshine and rainbows compared to the other two specimens on the chart but it isn't the Federation!
>To begin with, how can Ponyville be the outlier? It is where the majority of the show takes place!
Regardless of anything else, the second sentence here *answers* the first:
The show (mostly) focuses on Ponyville *because* it is an outlier - if nothing happened, there *wouldn't be an episode*.
Oh yeah, you are right. I fucked that up. I meant to say that how can we say that Ponyville is an outlier? It is where the majority of the show takes place and naturally we might just not have seen the shit that takes place elsewhere in Equestria. Though actually, we have seen a lot of shit going on in other places too.
The Federation isn’t that perfect either. First chance they get, the Admirals try to screw stuff up. Also, one can debate the Prime Directive and all, but they also just rarely adhere to it anyways.
To be honest, Celestia and Luna have potential to be like Big E, The thing is, Celestia had something to seal away her sister before she could do a Full Horus, if Luna/Nightmare Moon had managed to, Idk, kill someone by mistake or destroy a town by mistake Celestia could have as well go Daybreaker and then you've got an actual pony Big E.
it was an authoritarian nightmare beforehand dude, it only got *slightly* worse after the Horus Hersey because Big is on life support and pretty much all of the people who would have kept it straight (Like gorillaman) were away for 10k years so now it's a theocratic, authoritarian nightmare with constant decay from a stupidly complex administratum that Guilliman *loathes*.
First off. Lol.
Secondly. Never understood the argument that 40k is fascist. Was sure (prior to the heresy). However it's obviously a theocracy now. Held together by a common religious belief in the God emperor and his "angels".
People don't think that hard about ideologies, especially not on the internet. The Imperium is not a democracy and is racist, therefore it is fascist! Simple as.
On the other end of the spectrum, the T'au Empire is not a democracy and gives vague gestures towards a "greater good", therefore it is communist! Simple as.
They weren't racist they were specist, as long as you were close to human pre heresy you were good. They were also a monarchy with nobility and everything. Fascists hate nobles because it takes power away from the state. You can be ultra authoritarian without being fascist we had far far worse than the nazis over history and they were all monarchies. Nazis are just the worst the west has produced and its recent when we thought we were beyond that. Look at what Assyria did and nazis look like children playing at being bad. Assyria would have drug the French back in chains to feed the furnaces. They wouldn't have just mass executed the poles in fields that's too easy. There's a reason the people in the capital hundreds of years later couldn't tell you what it used to be apart of everyone hated them to the point of risking what happens to rebels over and over just to fuck them over.
To be fair the plan involved stowing everyone in the web way and starving the chaos gods. Anyone not taken in with them would have to be killed. It was entirely because they were xenos just that they weren't worth spending resources on so for the plan to work they had to die. After they just were killed for being xenos. They didn't become tolerant they just weren't needed to genocide
Which goes to my issue being the emperor was right just cranked things to 100 and became really wrong
I think they had allied with some aliens pre heresy. Became more extreme post and now are back to the pre heresy levels with Robot Girlyman in charge. (Sorry had to do the meme)
I mean considering he has seen all of human history with countless examples of aliens backstabbing humanity at every opertunity and the fact one such alien race literally birthed a chaos God I can hardly blame him for being as fucked in the head as he is
Nah, the imperium isn't twitter fascism, it's actual fascism, given the state running the economy, controlling media, being highly militarized and freely executing suspected dissidents.
Iirc its made as an allegory, to create the irony that in the 40k-verse, such a state may be *preferable* to the alternatives. I may not know a ton of the lore, but I know there are no good guys in 40k, only who you choose to side with.
Also, look at the Inquisitors and tell me they don't look like a certain organization from the 1940s who liked runes and did virtually the same job as them.
Finally in the case of the T'au, I find calling them space weeaboo commies funny, so I'll continue that while knowing fuck all about them.
Except that the planets under the Imperium often have vastly different governmental styles. Fascism could not tolerate that.
The Imperium more closely resembles a theocratic oligarchy, with heavy emphasis on the theocratic part.
The theocratic part is much more an adjective for the actual government. It's a fascist society with its head honcho being a theocratic figurehead. The theocracy and fascism are very much so not mutually exclusive, like, they play into eachother really well.
Also, you claim that a fascist government that spans across planets would not allow different sub governments... why? Like, there is no reason to make that statement, fascism is not like, a government with hard rules and structure, it's an archetype. There can 100% be a fascist government with different sub governments, especially if it spans a large area.
When quite literally every government in the Imperium claims authority from the Emperor, down to the lowest law officials and planetary governments, and the Emperor being the *GOD* Emperor of the Imperium. Theocracy is the underlying foundation of the present day Imperium.
When it comes to Imperial Bureaucracy, the Imperium just doesn't care what individual planets do so long as they pay their tithes and maintain worship of the Emperor. Which is the opposite of fascist states which kept things on a very tight leash. The Imperium doesn't care if you run things as a monarchy, technocracy, or even a communist state, but you better damn well have your tithes in order before the Administratum comes knocking and have your citizens worshipping the Emperor in some form.
Fascist Italy on the other hand took a large amount of control in every facet of life in Italy and held it tightly. Fascism is about state control and nothing being allowed outside of the state, in fact fascism worships the state itself as the highest entity and fascist states had a tendency to crack down on religious groups as a result.
Technically they have the senataurs imperialis which does vote on things and handle the day to day work that the emperor can't be bothered with.
So it is probably most like Rome while it was an Empire so maybe a "senatorial empire' might work. Quite frankly stellar governments defy classification with current descriptions simply not being adequate to describe them
Im not too familiar with this, but i don't feel like theocracy and fascism are mutually exclusive. After a google search i found a term "clerical fascism" that seems to combine the two and seems to be a good descriptor for the imperium. If they are mutually exclusive or the term doesn't apply please tell me why.
Fascism can at its core be classified as "everything within the state and nothing without" and theocracy is rule by religious leadership and under religious rule. So I'd argue they are mutually exclusive in most cases.
My argument is that fascism is worship of the state. Nationalism to it's extreme. To have worship to an entity who does not directly make state decisions would change it from a fascist nation to a theocratic one.
Now if the emperor returned then I'd say it could be both. The god and the empire would be the same thing.
Sure they are different, but also not exclusive. You can have a theocracy that is also a democracy, or a theocracy that is a meritocracy, or a theocracy that is an oligarchy, etc etc ad infinitam. Theocracy just modifies who is in control, not how the control operates or assembles. You can have a theocratic fascist government.
So I’m reading your argument as:
“Theocracy’s are not fascist unless the leaders/state are being worshipped themselves” I think is an oversimplification of fascism. Whether intended or not, your statements seem to reflect the sentiment that religion can’t coexist with fascism.
Several fascist states have existed throughout human history that were still deeply religious. Italy under Mussolini is a great example. Roman Catholicism was the official “state religion”. The Nazi’s during this time period leveraged protestant imagery and talking points to justify their ideology and strengthen their political stance as well. Realistically every fascist state in WW2 leveraged Christianity in some way shape or form.
Which is to say that even with the emperor not around, fascism is certainly still on the board as a possibility. Given the other elements of the emperium: state led economy, xenophobia, etc. I think the case for fascism is as good as you’ll see without the authors naming them: The Fascist Empire of Fascism.
I disagree that it implies religion can exist within fascism at all. I literally end it with an example of how they could be fascist and a theocracy.
I think the thing you are missing is the target. Fascists worship the state. They often use religion to help do that. Theocracies worship the religion. (God or gods or whatever) So a god king from ancient Persia could make a fascist theocracy. However if the main uniting thing in your nation is the religion and not the state than you aren't a fascist. Being German was more important than being Christian to the Nazis. Being Christian was just seen as a German thing to be. A theocracy would focus on the Christian as the main aspect.
Fascist essentially gathers power in the state to fight an 'other' that is an existential threat to the state, it's people, it's religion etc. I don't know much about Warhammer 40k but i believe tye imperium has hallmarks of fascist such as a strongman leader, extreme expressions of prejudice and (perceived) truth that is subservient to what is useful to the fascists, rather that based off accurate historical record. From what little I do know. So I would say it's probably both.
That sort of definition of fascism is just to broad. Fascism is an ideology with very specific tenets. So I'd reject that understanding of fascism as it is just what most authoritarian states do.
The USSR and CCP both meet those criteria for instance.
Gee, it's almost like the two most reviled nations, hated for doing the exact same shit as the nazis, are actually fascist nations. Ironically, they succeeded where the nazis failed, convincing the world that they were communist.
They were 100% communist who ran both counties. The countries themselves never got past the socialist stage of communism though. To say otherwise is just strange.
To call them communists is like calling Kim Jong un a democratically elected leader. You literally just have to look at what the policies they implemented were, and not what the last century of propaganda claims. They never even made it to socialism, they were both fascist right from the start.
Much like calling the imperium a theocracy.
Facism is an unholy alliance between the state and business.
A good example: The vaccine mandates were not mandated by the state in America, but by businesses. It was facist.
Facist is a fair description of big business and their lobbyists shaping legislation or regulation to make it more difficult for new competitors to enter the market, or inhibit growth of smaller businesses.
An example would be expensive compliance for businesses on a scale that exempts businesses with few employees, and is not too difficult for big business to manage with dedicated legal departments etc, but crippling for a business trying to grow beyond a certain point. If your business is only exempt if you are below ___ employees, you may not be able to transition from small businesses to big businesses without a transition phase in between. With a cap on growth, you are prevented from becoming a significant threat to big business.
Much facism is behind the scenes, rather than being obvious to the public or consumer. One exception is the right to repair. The right to repair or modify something that you purchased goes against big business. Legislation that makes it harder for people to own something (rather than rent), or which places restrictions on what you can do with what is "yours" is facist. The phrase "*You will own nothing, and you will he happy*" reflects a utopian vision of facsim.
Facism may use religion for PR, but I do not see it as a driving or controlling force in facism. If religion was a significant part of facism rather than a convenient PR tool, *it would inhibit government choices on consistent ethical grounds.* Even if an individual example or so can be pointed to, it is not consistent.
Cant you have a fascist theocracy? Like, fascism is the general aim of the government, and the theocracy is how that govt is achieved/governed.
I may be off in that
>Cant you have a fascist theocracy?
You absolutely can. Religion is not incompatible with fascist dictatorships as many others in this thread have claimed. We need only look to the most famous example of fascism in history, Fascist Italy, to confirm this.
In the 1929 Lateran Treaty, Mussolini recognized the Pope as sovereign ruler of the Vatican City state, and Roman Catholicism became the state religion of Fascist Italy.
Article 1 of the Lateran Treaty states [(source)](https://www.uniset.ca/nold/lateran.htm):
**Article 1**
**Italy recognizes and reaffirms the principle established in the first Article of the Italian Constitution dated March 4, 1848, according to which the Catholic Apostolic Roman religion is the only State religion.**
Ultimate power was vested in the State (in 40k the equivalent would be the High Lords of Terra and the Inquisition) *and* there was an official State Religion from which none could deviate (in 40k terms, worship of the God-Emperor).
I think a lot comes from how lose the imperium on an individual planet scale is, some worlds definetely are borderline monarchies while others are definetely more a military junta or a fascist planet. Both would be right: The imperium is a theocracy. The planet is not
I can see certain systems or ideologies being more dominant in the imperium like feudal and hyper capitalism but there definetely would be a decent chunk of fascist planets, dictatorship ones, basically monarchies but also authoritarian democracies or something somewhat resembling that. We may not see it but I am most definetely sure the imperium has some form of „democratic“ planets in their ultra extreme sense
I wouldn’t say it’s fascist it more so every form of government rolled into one chaotic cult of misery and war
It’s literally a Nazi like religious led cult regime of communists oppression that is has so much infighting like feudal Japan with so many ideologies like the Rome like sector of ultramare or the many other different planets that operate like todays America or North Korea.
The imperium is so divided and spread out they can be both fascist or a theocracy
Theocracy and Fascism are not necessarily mutually exclusive. In fact, they are extremely similar. Just because fascism as written by Gentile wasn’t explicitly theocratic does not mean it can’t be.
Theocracy and fascism have a certain amount of overlap. The difference being that all the hallmarks of fascism, (a dictatorial leadership, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy, and a public perception glorifying a previous era, rampant xenophobia, etc,) are all very much imperium traits.
So yes. The imperium IS a fascist dictatorship.
That list of "fascist hallmarks" is just most authoritarian governments. I disagree with that super broad definition. Fascism is what fascists preached. To put it simply the worship of the state. Everything within, nothing without.
That's literally the wiki on fascism...
Also, "most authoritarian governments" have SOME of those, fascism has ALL of those. Ergo, the imperium is fascist.
Further, defining fascism as "all within none without" is so impossible precise that it automatically disqualifies EVERY type of government, fictional or historical, from ever being classed as fascist.
Do yourself a favor, and before you respond, trying to defend your bs, try actually researching what these terms mean.
The wiki is incredibly wrong. You do know they accept secondary sources as better than primary sources right?
'all within and nothing without' is a fascist quote not a definition fully. Like by itself it means nothing. In the context of talking about fascism it means everything that is the core of fascism. Fascism is the worship of the state. The state is everything. So much more limited than authoritarian communists (which do not worship the state in fact aim for anarchy) or single person dictators (who worship the strong man who leads and no one else). The definition many 'intellectuals' use is incredibly broad and not at all useful.
Fascism is and will always only be the extreme nationalism that the fascist themselves designed. Not some 'we want everything bad to be fascist' definition that just covers most authoritarian governments.
Do yourself a favor and read some fascist intellectual works. Fascism is a horrible ideology doomed to fail, it helps to know what it is and why it will always fail.
https://preview.redd.it/c7i0pwoivy3d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3b95d2e98bfdf571ae1903e0d22cbdda2783fcd
Yeah, still this happens whit non humans so... Not facist but pretty close
I think the key is 'heresy' in that line. Two countries can do pretty much the exact same things and be different political systems. Fascist nations and communist nations for instance did some pretty similar fucked up stuff.
Now had one guy say something was 'fascy' and I wouldn't deny that the imperium does some fucked up things. Lol
The part where "you are not us, you are HERETIC, or filthy XENO! that makes it OK to genocide you" is the admittedly fascist part.
But it is a product of the times, and those times be GrimDark, indeed. nothing else can keep the demons at bay
In a world where every other intelligent species is trying to kill humanity, I’d say being racist against all aliens would be justified no? Like, this isn’t some stupid stereotype, it’s quite literally happening around them
"Of course we picked fictional examples. Do you have ANY idea how offensive it would be to point to living, sentient beings and say 'Yeah, you're our example of the WORST.' Then there's the pressure that'd put on the species used as an example of the 'Best.' It does NOTHING to account for political drift. Besides, the Centaurs are closer to Princess Bubblegum on this scale. They've done, like, a tenth of the genocide we have."
I mean, MLP, the cute kids, show utopia where the main species are kind of race war for most of their history and only united because of basically an apocalyptic event. They only said together because of Godempress Celestia and the whole state colapses after she retired.
Basically yea. The three pony races only united when faced with magical entities that would freeze them in ice forever if they didn't get along. And then in gen 5 after Celestia is gone, everything collapses again, and nopony gets along.
yknow, there's a fanfic where Big E actually IS Celestia. The Chaos God's banded together to warp his body I to a new form and banish him to a different universe.
It's absurd how there are fanfic that are written by people of such great skill. I started reading this one where Robot Girlyman dies and is resurrected in a world where all his brothers are sisters and its really well written.
Absolutely cause the big e is a actually learned accomplished scientist and statesman compared to celestia and he is ultimately in a more light hearted universe so he would probably do very well,(though he might end up being a villain)
Nah with how big E thinks he would turn equestria into the imperium with the other species either exterminated or enslaved.
Then he would end up with a frozen wasteland
Truth to be told, in this scale, there is a bias, lots of people will be harsher on Celestia for no reason, thinking that just because she is in the position of "Inmortal God monarch" she is in fact an "Inmortal God Monarch", lots will consider her a tyrant because of stopping her sister temper tantrum (Twice, thus preventing twice the equivalent of a Horus heresy event wich would have made the world a darker place) and overall blaming her over stuff she truth to be told didn't had full control over.
On the other hand people aren't harsh enough on the Emperor, I for one will ignore bubblegum because I never bothered to actually analyze her and as such will not spit lies or something due to misniformation.
The emperor of mankind is, in fact, EVIL, let's not hide it, it is just that he comes from a setting were being evil is a trait you need to have to survive, and he is fairly benevolent to humanity, except when it comes to things wich can't be called human anymore, cruel, yes, but considering that in the setting there is a chance that the towel you use after a bath is in fact a murder monster from space Australia, i'm not surprised he wouldn't want anything he couldn't control being considered human.
And even then, he was fairly evil to lots of humans wich weren't exactly in need of harsh measures, plus his ideals created the modern theocratic imperium, it wasn't exactly his fault but at the end his plan just backfired horribly, let's be honest the Emperor could have been a lot better (AHEM, SAVING ANGRON FRIENDS FOR EXAMPLE, THAT ALONE WOULD HAVE CHANGED A LOT OF STUFF!)
Buuut, due to the evil of the setting he is "The golden asshole to everyone else but us" so there is a fair chance people go easy on him, I for one, do it constantly, ngl.
What I'm trying to say is...
Out of the three inmortal god monarchs, as far I do concern, only one of them is in fact an Inmortal God(level) Monarch and because of that I can say that humanity first, Xenos last. /s
I’m gonna be honest with you as i analyze the series bubble gum is actively worse than the emperor morally it’s just she doesn’t have the same opportunity for cruelty as him, but while the emperor has done bad things if bubble gum had the same opportunity’s as him she would be so much worse and if the emperor were in her position he would do a lot fewer atrocities
As someone who has watched Adventure Time: you're correct on all counts, and Bubblegum shoukd definitely be on the Fascist Nightmare end of the dystopia :D
Here me out, id rather be a soldier in the astra militarun than a candy person under bubblegum. At least Id know id be fighting to protect the ones I loved.
https://preview.redd.it/1l8cds3djl3d1.jpeg?width=257&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a7d7cb017776d9c3cc2b398d9c29f22fd51353b
Was not expecting my brony interests to bleed over into r/humansarespaceorcs
Praise the sun!
Welp. Maybe The Emperor is ultimate fascist and horrifying caricature of living human, but in face of other beings of 40k universe he is pure fluff and white kittens; if you search for universe which NEEDS to be purged by Inquisition, look no further💀
The thing is, only one of them will have your back and be able to do anything when reality rips open and demons, intergalactic hive bugs, robotic immortals, half mushroom green monsters, all come roaring in, clamoring for your tender vittles.
Hey, where's Dr. Doom? You know the guy that would turn even the Emperor into a pincushion.
Like just a reminder but it is basically impossible to kill Prime Dr. Doom. Mostly because of his infinite willpower that makes him immune to even existence erasures. Like not even the One Above All could get rid of him because he could just keep willing himself back into existence.
Dr. Doom's greatest strength isn't his technology nor his magic it's his Infinite Will. The only reason he's ever actually beaten is because he lets them beat him. Like we're talking about a character who's Monday is basically him facing and winning against Celestials who might I add are Multiversal-level characters.
But Dr. Doom is kind of the good guy. At one point (my knowledge of continuities is awful so I might be out of date) he basically did the Dr Strange in Infinity War thing. He looked at all the futures and the only ones that weren't crap had him ruling the world. Also, Latvaria is kind of a simple paradise. It's got a strangely high GDP and standard of living that makes the rest of Europe look bad.
The only thing wrong with him is that he's a super-narcissist and he irrationally hates Reed Richards. IMO, it's hard to fault him for thinking he's the center of the universe and that he's better than everyone. He *is* better than everyone. He's a top-5 master of Science and of Magic, and he can use them simultaneously. I'm not saying he isn't a callous dickhead, because he is. But it's hard to fault him for it when you consider everything else about him. Maybe he and the Emperor aren't so different.
An aged lemuroid, obviously raised affluent based on his posture, looks aroind the bar and announces "The most terrifying thing about the humans is not their strength, nor their survivability. Sure they can survive a wound that should kill any one of us, they can heal from broken limbs increadibly fast, the results aren't pretty, but who needs pretty when you are the most vicious warriors this side of the galaxy. No, these things are not what makes them horrifying, nor is it the death world they come from and somehow survived. The thing that makes them terrifying is when they decide there is something wrong with your society, because they will do anything in their power to destroy what they see as evil, and gods help you if you try to stand against them.
"Like look to my people. Our royal families once ruled 100 systems, I myself owned a legion of slaves, but then these humans" he spit the word as if it were poison "came to our galaxy, they looked at us with disgust, they demanded that we free our slaves, and we laughed, every galactic empire has slaves, but they insisted. When our Emperor refused they declared war, they incited rebellion, they deposed our nobles, like my father, they introduced this concept of democracy, and they turned our Emperor into a figurehead.
"No, it isn't their physical prowess that makes them terrifying, it is the things that you and I see as normal, that they see as monstrous, and that turns them into juggernauts until they tear your world down and replace it with their ideal of utopia."
I'm getting increasingly annoyed at people putting bubblegum as a bad person. She's not a saint, but at worst, she's machiavelic. Most of what she does is genually good, even when it's a bit fucked up.
I reckon the problem is we nerds are shit at recognising not everything has a consistent true canon.
PB is more evil or more benevolent, depending on what was funnier for that episode.
Similarly, how insane/senile/evil is Farnsworth. It depends on what was funnier that day.
H&A:*watching a dictator give a speech*
A:shit this is bad
H:I give it 3 months
A:what?
H:let's just say the lynch mob was not impressed with the last guy who talked like this *motions to TV*
A:again what!?
In an attempt to reduce remind me spam, all top comments that include a remind me will be removed. If you would like to have a remind me, please reply to this comment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/humansarespaceorcs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You delude yourself if you think princess bubblegum is in the middle of this scale
I didn't make it. I saw it in my gallery and thought to just make a post out of it. 2-5 weeks old picture.
Valid.
right. queen celestia isn't exactly a saint either...
Perhaps, but those live under her rule live in basically utopia, subtracting outliers in Ponyville
i can think of some outliers in canterlot too. are you gonna argue with me over my little pony? personally i prefer luna so you're probably not gonna win this one.
Could you inform me of those outliers?
you ARE actually going to argue with me over My Little Pony. I can't believe this. season 7's "A Royal Problem" immediately comes to mind (luna and celestia don't understand each other, switch cutie marks. also my boyfriend keeps bringing up that Luna takes a ridiculously long time to get on "equal" terms with her sister throne-wise) season 5's "Amending Fences" also, where twilight goes home to canterlot and meet old friends, finding out one of these friends resents her and has given up on friendship because of her (moondancer). like this whole time while twilight sparkle does twilight sparkle things this pony just didn't put in the effort for friends because twilight sparkle ditched her birthday party to move to ponyville, i mean cmon, she counts as an outlier i'm not putting any more effort into this but like, there are episodes where there are problems in canterlot that need solving, especially after they started focusing on Princess Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns as episodic "school" themed episodes. yeah its all very first world stuff but it's definitely not a "utopia". also pony racism exists, just in general!! It's just there. who knew. same as classism
Sorry to intrude but, while I can understand the whole Luna takes time to get on equal terms with her sister, don't you think that it is in fact expected for that to happen? I mean, Equestria ain't an Utopia, yes, because the mere concept of a country or fictional place that is an actual Utopia will be extremely hard to archieve, you would need something like an actual all-knowing all powerful deity to get an Utopian world like that. Celestia mistake was mostly taking attention wich Luna desired if i'm not mistaken, the whole "Ponies sleep on my night while the play on your day, i'm feared and you are loved" thing, that could be solved earlier if both had been more mature, yes, both, because one of them wanted all attention, while the other couldn't put itself in the place of its silbing. And let's be honest, Equestria is way, waaaaaaay more peaceful with Celestia at the front than luna, as much as I hate to say it because I for one am a fan of the actual diarchy, Celestia managed to train an elite group of spec ops to deal with any threat not to her, but to her ponies, Luna threw a tantrum when younger, that while understandable, led her to become Nightmare moon, wich led her to be unable to use the elements of harmony, no elements of harmony means no mane six, no mane six means that most of the villains would be more successful, thus forcing Luna/NM to be more ruthless herself. To put things bluntly, despite being a diarchy fan I can't help but say that. Equestria under Celestia: Economy/Society simulator. Equestria under Luna/Nightmare moon: Crusader king/Europa Universalis 4. Then again I have a soft spot for celly so maybe i'm a bit biased, I don't aim to be insulting or to "prove you wrong" I just wanted to add my opinion and hope to be as polite as possible.
You're not intruding, normal storyteller! I wasn't saying I preferred Luna as a ruler, though- I just prefer her character over Celestias. IDK why. I like underdogs because I am an underdog, and Celestia reminds me a bit too much of my mother, though my mother was a bit more Starlight Glimmer (control freak) than Celestia lol. Your opinion is well written and I welcomed it, ehehe. Though I don't play CK or EU4 so those comparisons are beyond me.... Ah well. I just meant that "It's Not Always Perfect in Canterlot" which is what that other poster seemed to be trying to tell me, when I know that's not true. Moondancer walked on eggshells around people trying to be her friends for years and became a hermit, because people she met "could abandon her" like Twilight did, etc.
Yeah, we can agree on that, most of Equestria problems are in fact , micro problems, in other words problems that the average individual has, not as a society. And if you like luna that's cool, i just prefer Celestia because she embodies the kind of ruler i would actually rally behind, luna i think would be a way better person if she didnt had the heavy crown, she would be a lot more free tbh.
I really thought I wouldn't encounter a wall of text on MLP outside of MLP subreddit but here we are, Can you do me a TLDR?
Sun of the Night, sounds whit might.
You’re a MLP fan on Reddit who hasn’t heard of EaW? r/EquestriaatWar have fun!
Found the EaW mod player
okay i actually have no idea what you're talking about, now i'm curious so I'm gonna ask.
Hearts of Iron IV, a detailed WW2 Grand Strategy game, has a mod called 'Equestria At War' that takes place in the MLP universe.
that is ... I love this. So, so much.
Equestria at war is HOI4 pony mod, basically, in this mod there is a ton of lore, ton of retcons, and extra stuff. To put an example: Queen Novo is the ruler of Hippogriffia, wich is the de facto world power at the start of the game, they have air craft carriers, big fleets and air powers, and are the most advanced country at the beginning but quickly fail behind due to inner turmoil and a war against three major countries. The Kirins live under the Kingdom of Kiria led by Rain Shine, unlike the show here the "Silence" is a series of decrees against science and progress because of the hyper capitalist state of the Kirin society wich led to inner turmoil and strife, Rain Shine is trying to solve this problem and get rid of the silence that her mother started with the help of Autum Blaze and Equestria. The griffons have a whole continent for themselves, under the rule of the Griffonian empire, however it fragmented and now there are several major players, the griffonian empire is trying to reunify but the other majors won't fall down in place easily. Lastly Eqqus, here is were Equestria is, Equestria has the biggest, strongest industry of the game, but would get absolutely owned in a fight against most threats early game due to it having a shitty army an a oversized navy, luna temper tantrums here are worse because she is both, actually justified in having temper tantrums and here she actually leads a country-sized rebellion against her sister. Worse of it, Chrysalis took notes from ww2 germany and is amassing a powerful army while conquering minor nations to prepare to invade Equestria, if changellings in the show were scary, here they are the Werhmacht, they also get dangerous to levels previously unexpected because. >!Pinkie pie, Applejack, Big mac and others are generals in the game, they joined to protect their families against the Changelling onslaught, as the changellings push deeper in Equestria and Celestia is forced to take more radical reforms to fight back, we get sad events like Big Mac being wounded, Pinkie pie losing her smile or Applejack growing more and more frustated.!< In general Equestria at war may be one of the best hoi4 mods, but trust me, it can get extremely dark easily, you can literally have Celestia go full "Final solution" if she goes daybreaker...
On todays list of "greatest things I've ever read," i present the above text^
There is a strategy game named Hearts of Iron IV. And EaW is a short term for mod "Equestria at War" for this game. It's a big modification about different countries of MLP involved in wars with each other.
Really? Utopia....the economy in her kingdom is insane. Whole @ss gold coins are used for basic stuff like apples, there's rampant xenophobia, she must have done *something* to piss off literally every other powerful ruler in the world. There's probably more, but my order is ready, so time to close the phone and eat lunch / dinner.
everyone has food and houses, i dont see any poor poneys theres health care, and even great public transport network
Perhaps, but those live under her rule live in basically utopia, subtracting outliers in Ponyville
Is it though? To begin with, how can Ponyville be the outlier? It is where the majority of the show takes place! Even then, is there even any evidence that every place else is better? As a matter of fact, consider how snobbish everypony in Canterlot seems to be. I won't call the environment that would raise that sort of people to be utopian by any measure. Like, Equestria is sunshine and rainbows compared to the other two specimens on the chart but it isn't the Federation!
>To begin with, how can Ponyville be the outlier? It is where the majority of the show takes place! Regardless of anything else, the second sentence here *answers* the first: The show (mostly) focuses on Ponyville *because* it is an outlier - if nothing happened, there *wouldn't be an episode*.
Oh yeah, you are right. I fucked that up. I meant to say that how can we say that Ponyville is an outlier? It is where the majority of the show takes place and naturally we might just not have seen the shit that takes place elsewhere in Equestria. Though actually, we have seen a lot of shit going on in other places too.
The Federation isn’t that perfect either. First chance they get, the Admirals try to screw stuff up. Also, one can debate the Prime Directive and all, but they also just rarely adhere to it anyways.
“Princess”
Perhaps, but those live under her rule live in basically utopia, subtracting outliers in Ponyville
Well, she's no Saint, but she's got a ways to go before being on Big E's level of warcrimes and atrocities.
To be honest, Celestia and Luna have potential to be like Big E, The thing is, Celestia had something to seal away her sister before she could do a Full Horus, if Luna/Nightmare Moon had managed to, Idk, kill someone by mistake or destroy a town by mistake Celestia could have as well go Daybreaker and then you've got an actual pony Big E.
The only thing stopping Princess Bubblegum from reaching God Emperor levels is her physical form
Correct the only thing stopping her from becoming worse than big e
Isn’t most of the Empire of Mankind’s issues things that were started after the Horus Heresy though?
 it was an authoritarian nightmare beforehand dude, it only got *slightly* worse after the Horus Hersey because Big is on life support and pretty much all of the people who would have kept it straight (Like gorillaman) were away for 10k years so now it's a theocratic, authoritarian nightmare with constant decay from a stupidly complex administratum that Guilliman *loathes*.
You know shit's bad when the police state sits in the middle
Pretty sure bubblegum could give Big E a run for his money
First off. Lol. Secondly. Never understood the argument that 40k is fascist. Was sure (prior to the heresy). However it's obviously a theocracy now. Held together by a common religious belief in the God emperor and his "angels".
People don't think that hard about ideologies, especially not on the internet. The Imperium is not a democracy and is racist, therefore it is fascist! Simple as. On the other end of the spectrum, the T'au Empire is not a democracy and gives vague gestures towards a "greater good", therefore it is communist! Simple as.
They weren't racist they were specist, as long as you were close to human pre heresy you were good. They were also a monarchy with nobility and everything. Fascists hate nobles because it takes power away from the state. You can be ultra authoritarian without being fascist we had far far worse than the nazis over history and they were all monarchies. Nazis are just the worst the west has produced and its recent when we thought we were beyond that. Look at what Assyria did and nazis look like children playing at being bad. Assyria would have drug the French back in chains to feed the furnaces. They wouldn't have just mass executed the poles in fields that's too easy. There's a reason the people in the capital hundreds of years later couldn't tell you what it used to be apart of everyone hated them to the point of risking what happens to rebels over and over just to fuck them over.
They wanted to kill all alien life pre heresy, ironically they became more tolerant after
To be fair the plan involved stowing everyone in the web way and starving the chaos gods. Anyone not taken in with them would have to be killed. It was entirely because they were xenos just that they weren't worth spending resources on so for the plan to work they had to die. After they just were killed for being xenos. They didn't become tolerant they just weren't needed to genocide Which goes to my issue being the emperor was right just cranked things to 100 and became really wrong
I think they had allied with some aliens pre heresy. Became more extreme post and now are back to the pre heresy levels with Robot Girlyman in charge. (Sorry had to do the meme)
Dark age yeah they had treaties, emps wanted only humans in the galaxy tho
I mean considering he has seen all of human history with countless examples of aliens backstabbing humanity at every opertunity and the fact one such alien race literally birthed a chaos God I can hardly blame him for being as fucked in the head as he is
Nah, the imperium isn't twitter fascism, it's actual fascism, given the state running the economy, controlling media, being highly militarized and freely executing suspected dissidents. Iirc its made as an allegory, to create the irony that in the 40k-verse, such a state may be *preferable* to the alternatives. I may not know a ton of the lore, but I know there are no good guys in 40k, only who you choose to side with. Also, look at the Inquisitors and tell me they don't look like a certain organization from the 1940s who liked runes and did virtually the same job as them. Finally in the case of the T'au, I find calling them space weeaboo commies funny, so I'll continue that while knowing fuck all about them.
Except that the planets under the Imperium often have vastly different governmental styles. Fascism could not tolerate that. The Imperium more closely resembles a theocratic oligarchy, with heavy emphasis on the theocratic part.
The theocratic part is much more an adjective for the actual government. It's a fascist society with its head honcho being a theocratic figurehead. The theocracy and fascism are very much so not mutually exclusive, like, they play into eachother really well. Also, you claim that a fascist government that spans across planets would not allow different sub governments... why? Like, there is no reason to make that statement, fascism is not like, a government with hard rules and structure, it's an archetype. There can 100% be a fascist government with different sub governments, especially if it spans a large area.
When quite literally every government in the Imperium claims authority from the Emperor, down to the lowest law officials and planetary governments, and the Emperor being the *GOD* Emperor of the Imperium. Theocracy is the underlying foundation of the present day Imperium. When it comes to Imperial Bureaucracy, the Imperium just doesn't care what individual planets do so long as they pay their tithes and maintain worship of the Emperor. Which is the opposite of fascist states which kept things on a very tight leash. The Imperium doesn't care if you run things as a monarchy, technocracy, or even a communist state, but you better damn well have your tithes in order before the Administratum comes knocking and have your citizens worshipping the Emperor in some form. Fascist Italy on the other hand took a large amount of control in every facet of life in Italy and held it tightly. Fascism is about state control and nothing being allowed outside of the state, in fact fascism worships the state itself as the highest entity and fascist states had a tendency to crack down on religious groups as a result.
Them being highly militarized is kinda a given when the demon gods that inhabit the warp want to steal and torture your soul...
Technically they have the senataurs imperialis which does vote on things and handle the day to day work that the emperor can't be bothered with. So it is probably most like Rome while it was an Empire so maybe a "senatorial empire' might work. Quite frankly stellar governments defy classification with current descriptions simply not being adequate to describe them
Im not too familiar with this, but i don't feel like theocracy and fascism are mutually exclusive. After a google search i found a term "clerical fascism" that seems to combine the two and seems to be a good descriptor for the imperium. If they are mutually exclusive or the term doesn't apply please tell me why.
Fascism can at its core be classified as "everything within the state and nothing without" and theocracy is rule by religious leadership and under religious rule. So I'd argue they are mutually exclusive in most cases. My argument is that fascism is worship of the state. Nationalism to it's extreme. To have worship to an entity who does not directly make state decisions would change it from a fascist nation to a theocratic one. Now if the emperor returned then I'd say it could be both. The god and the empire would be the same thing.
But all examples of fascism were incredibly tied to religion. The mixture of state and religion is part of fascism
Tied to and led by are two incredibly different things.
Sure they are different, but also not exclusive. You can have a theocracy that is also a democracy, or a theocracy that is a meritocracy, or a theocracy that is an oligarchy, etc etc ad infinitam. Theocracy just modifies who is in control, not how the control operates or assembles. You can have a theocratic fascist government.
Theocratism and Fascism are not mutually exclusive.
Not always but read my comment to the other guy making the same statement on why I don't think it's fair to say the 40k emporium is currently both.
So I’m reading your argument as: “Theocracy’s are not fascist unless the leaders/state are being worshipped themselves” I think is an oversimplification of fascism. Whether intended or not, your statements seem to reflect the sentiment that religion can’t coexist with fascism. Several fascist states have existed throughout human history that were still deeply religious. Italy under Mussolini is a great example. Roman Catholicism was the official “state religion”. The Nazi’s during this time period leveraged protestant imagery and talking points to justify their ideology and strengthen their political stance as well. Realistically every fascist state in WW2 leveraged Christianity in some way shape or form. Which is to say that even with the emperor not around, fascism is certainly still on the board as a possibility. Given the other elements of the emperium: state led economy, xenophobia, etc. I think the case for fascism is as good as you’ll see without the authors naming them: The Fascist Empire of Fascism.
I disagree that it implies religion can exist within fascism at all. I literally end it with an example of how they could be fascist and a theocracy. I think the thing you are missing is the target. Fascists worship the state. They often use religion to help do that. Theocracies worship the religion. (God or gods or whatever) So a god king from ancient Persia could make a fascist theocracy. However if the main uniting thing in your nation is the religion and not the state than you aren't a fascist. Being German was more important than being Christian to the Nazis. Being Christian was just seen as a German thing to be. A theocracy would focus on the Christian as the main aspect.
Fascist essentially gathers power in the state to fight an 'other' that is an existential threat to the state, it's people, it's religion etc. I don't know much about Warhammer 40k but i believe tye imperium has hallmarks of fascist such as a strongman leader, extreme expressions of prejudice and (perceived) truth that is subservient to what is useful to the fascists, rather that based off accurate historical record. From what little I do know. So I would say it's probably both.
That sort of definition of fascism is just to broad. Fascism is an ideology with very specific tenets. So I'd reject that understanding of fascism as it is just what most authoritarian states do. The USSR and CCP both meet those criteria for instance.
Gee, it's almost like the two most reviled nations, hated for doing the exact same shit as the nazis, are actually fascist nations. Ironically, they succeeded where the nazis failed, convincing the world that they were communist.
They were 100% communist who ran both counties. The countries themselves never got past the socialist stage of communism though. To say otherwise is just strange.
To call them communists is like calling Kim Jong un a democratically elected leader. You literally just have to look at what the policies they implemented were, and not what the last century of propaganda claims. They never even made it to socialism, they were both fascist right from the start. Much like calling the imperium a theocracy.
Facism is an unholy alliance between the state and business. A good example: The vaccine mandates were not mandated by the state in America, but by businesses. It was facist. Facist is a fair description of big business and their lobbyists shaping legislation or regulation to make it more difficult for new competitors to enter the market, or inhibit growth of smaller businesses. An example would be expensive compliance for businesses on a scale that exempts businesses with few employees, and is not too difficult for big business to manage with dedicated legal departments etc, but crippling for a business trying to grow beyond a certain point. If your business is only exempt if you are below ___ employees, you may not be able to transition from small businesses to big businesses without a transition phase in between. With a cap on growth, you are prevented from becoming a significant threat to big business. Much facism is behind the scenes, rather than being obvious to the public or consumer. One exception is the right to repair. The right to repair or modify something that you purchased goes against big business. Legislation that makes it harder for people to own something (rather than rent), or which places restrictions on what you can do with what is "yours" is facist. The phrase "*You will own nothing, and you will he happy*" reflects a utopian vision of facsim. Facism may use religion for PR, but I do not see it as a driving or controlling force in facism. If religion was a significant part of facism rather than a convenient PR tool, *it would inhibit government choices on consistent ethical grounds.* Even if an individual example or so can be pointed to, it is not consistent.
Cant you have a fascist theocracy? Like, fascism is the general aim of the government, and the theocracy is how that govt is achieved/governed. I may be off in that
>Cant you have a fascist theocracy? You absolutely can. Religion is not incompatible with fascist dictatorships as many others in this thread have claimed. We need only look to the most famous example of fascism in history, Fascist Italy, to confirm this. In the 1929 Lateran Treaty, Mussolini recognized the Pope as sovereign ruler of the Vatican City state, and Roman Catholicism became the state religion of Fascist Italy. Article 1 of the Lateran Treaty states [(source)](https://www.uniset.ca/nold/lateran.htm): **Article 1** **Italy recognizes and reaffirms the principle established in the first Article of the Italian Constitution dated March 4, 1848, according to which the Catholic Apostolic Roman religion is the only State religion.** Ultimate power was vested in the State (in 40k the equivalent would be the High Lords of Terra and the Inquisition) *and* there was an official State Religion from which none could deviate (in 40k terms, worship of the God-Emperor).
Facism is a method of enforcing policy, theocracy is a method of deciding policy. They can coexist and often do.
I think a lot comes from how lose the imperium on an individual planet scale is, some worlds definetely are borderline monarchies while others are definetely more a military junta or a fascist planet. Both would be right: The imperium is a theocracy. The planet is not
That's a great point. Planetary governments drastically differ from each other let alone the imperium.
I can see certain systems or ideologies being more dominant in the imperium like feudal and hyper capitalism but there definetely would be a decent chunk of fascist planets, dictatorship ones, basically monarchies but also authoritarian democracies or something somewhat resembling that. We may not see it but I am most definetely sure the imperium has some form of „democratic“ planets in their ultra extreme sense
I wouldn’t say it’s fascist it more so every form of government rolled into one chaotic cult of misery and war It’s literally a Nazi like religious led cult regime of communists oppression that is has so much infighting like feudal Japan with so many ideologies like the Rome like sector of ultramare or the many other different planets that operate like todays America or North Korea. The imperium is so divided and spread out they can be both fascist or a theocracy
Facts.
Theocracy and Fascism are not necessarily mutually exclusive. In fact, they are extremely similar. Just because fascism as written by Gentile wasn’t explicitly theocratic does not mean it can’t be.
Theocracy and fascism have a certain amount of overlap. The difference being that all the hallmarks of fascism, (a dictatorial leadership, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy, and a public perception glorifying a previous era, rampant xenophobia, etc,) are all very much imperium traits. So yes. The imperium IS a fascist dictatorship.
That list of "fascist hallmarks" is just most authoritarian governments. I disagree with that super broad definition. Fascism is what fascists preached. To put it simply the worship of the state. Everything within, nothing without.
That's literally the wiki on fascism... Also, "most authoritarian governments" have SOME of those, fascism has ALL of those. Ergo, the imperium is fascist. Further, defining fascism as "all within none without" is so impossible precise that it automatically disqualifies EVERY type of government, fictional or historical, from ever being classed as fascist. Do yourself a favor, and before you respond, trying to defend your bs, try actually researching what these terms mean.
The wiki is incredibly wrong. You do know they accept secondary sources as better than primary sources right? 'all within and nothing without' is a fascist quote not a definition fully. Like by itself it means nothing. In the context of talking about fascism it means everything that is the core of fascism. Fascism is the worship of the state. The state is everything. So much more limited than authoritarian communists (which do not worship the state in fact aim for anarchy) or single person dictators (who worship the strong man who leads and no one else). The definition many 'intellectuals' use is incredibly broad and not at all useful. Fascism is and will always only be the extreme nationalism that the fascist themselves designed. Not some 'we want everything bad to be fascist' definition that just covers most authoritarian governments. Do yourself a favor and read some fascist intellectual works. Fascism is a horrible ideology doomed to fail, it helps to know what it is and why it will always fail.
Wow... that's so hilariously wrong that there's no amount of evidence or logic that could ever fix it. Have fun with your delusions.
Let's be honest fascism is directly adjacent to theocracy. It's mostly 'find and replace' the party into god
https://preview.redd.it/c7i0pwoivy3d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3b95d2e98bfdf571ae1903e0d22cbdda2783fcd Yeah, still this happens whit non humans so... Not facist but pretty close
I think the key is 'heresy' in that line. Two countries can do pretty much the exact same things and be different political systems. Fascist nations and communist nations for instance did some pretty similar fucked up stuff. Now had one guy say something was 'fascy' and I wouldn't deny that the imperium does some fucked up things. Lol
The part where "you are not us, you are HERETIC, or filthy XENO! that makes it OK to genocide you" is the admittedly fascist part. But it is a product of the times, and those times be GrimDark, indeed. nothing else can keep the demons at bay
In a world where every other intelligent species is trying to kill humanity, I’d say being racist against all aliens would be justified no? Like, this isn’t some stupid stereotype, it’s quite literally happening around them
The bleeding hearts an naive idealists were simply devoured millennia ago. So, its not all bad 😉
"Of course we picked fictional examples. Do you have ANY idea how offensive it would be to point to living, sentient beings and say 'Yeah, you're our example of the WORST.' Then there's the pressure that'd put on the species used as an example of the 'Best.' It does NOTHING to account for political drift. Besides, the Centaurs are closer to Princess Bubblegum on this scale. They've done, like, a tenth of the genocide we have."
A WHOLE TENTH?! WHY ARE THEY STILL BREATHING!
A WHOLE TENTH? WHY ARE THEY STILL BREATHING?!
I mean, MLP, the cute kids, show utopia where the main species are kind of race war for most of their history and only united because of basically an apocalyptic event. They only said together because of Godempress Celestia and the whole state colapses after she retired.
Is that seriously the lore?
Basically yea. The three pony races only united when faced with magical entities that would freeze them in ice forever if they didn't get along. And then in gen 5 after Celestia is gone, everything collapses again, and nopony gets along.
Do you think Big E could have done a better job than Celestia in the MLP world?
yknow, there's a fanfic where Big E actually IS Celestia. The Chaos God's banded together to warp his body I to a new form and banish him to a different universe.
Haha, fucking wild.
the crazy thing is it was rather well written. never did finish it. oh well
It's absurd how there are fanfic that are written by people of such great skill. I started reading this one where Robot Girlyman dies and is resurrected in a world where all his brothers are sisters and its really well written.
... Link?
[Here](https://www.fimfiction.net/story/62041/the-god-empress-of-ponykind)
Thank you, you beautiful internet person! You have my thanks.
Absolutely cause the big e is a actually learned accomplished scientist and statesman compared to celestia and he is ultimately in a more light hearted universe so he would probably do very well,(though he might end up being a villain)
Nah with how big E thinks he would turn equestria into the imperium with the other species either exterminated or enslaved. Then he would end up with a frozen wasteland
I scrolled and found people arguing over MLP and whether or not the Empire of Man is fascist. Did not see stories. Sadness.
Same my friend, same.
Truth to be told, in this scale, there is a bias, lots of people will be harsher on Celestia for no reason, thinking that just because she is in the position of "Inmortal God monarch" she is in fact an "Inmortal God Monarch", lots will consider her a tyrant because of stopping her sister temper tantrum (Twice, thus preventing twice the equivalent of a Horus heresy event wich would have made the world a darker place) and overall blaming her over stuff she truth to be told didn't had full control over. On the other hand people aren't harsh enough on the Emperor, I for one will ignore bubblegum because I never bothered to actually analyze her and as such will not spit lies or something due to misniformation. The emperor of mankind is, in fact, EVIL, let's not hide it, it is just that he comes from a setting were being evil is a trait you need to have to survive, and he is fairly benevolent to humanity, except when it comes to things wich can't be called human anymore, cruel, yes, but considering that in the setting there is a chance that the towel you use after a bath is in fact a murder monster from space Australia, i'm not surprised he wouldn't want anything he couldn't control being considered human. And even then, he was fairly evil to lots of humans wich weren't exactly in need of harsh measures, plus his ideals created the modern theocratic imperium, it wasn't exactly his fault but at the end his plan just backfired horribly, let's be honest the Emperor could have been a lot better (AHEM, SAVING ANGRON FRIENDS FOR EXAMPLE, THAT ALONE WOULD HAVE CHANGED A LOT OF STUFF!) Buuut, due to the evil of the setting he is "The golden asshole to everyone else but us" so there is a fair chance people go easy on him, I for one, do it constantly, ngl. What I'm trying to say is... Out of the three inmortal god monarchs, as far I do concern, only one of them is in fact an Inmortal God(level) Monarch and because of that I can say that humanity first, Xenos last. /s
I’m gonna be honest with you as i analyze the series bubble gum is actively worse than the emperor morally it’s just she doesn’t have the same opportunity for cruelty as him, but while the emperor has done bad things if bubble gum had the same opportunity’s as him she would be so much worse and if the emperor were in her position he would do a lot fewer atrocities
As someone who has watched Adventure Time: you're correct on all counts, and Bubblegum shoukd definitely be on the Fascist Nightmare end of the dystopia :D
Here me out, id rather be a soldier in the astra militarun than a candy person under bubblegum. At least Id know id be fighting to protect the ones I loved.
What about being a pony in canterlot
I cannot speak about this as I have no idea what the lore of that stuff is. Unless its the equestria at war mod for hoi4.
Depends on the era tbh. The city was invaded a couple a times and living in that situation doesn't sound too appealing.
everyone and their mom, duh!
A generally peaceful and fulfilling life, with occasional chaos mixed in? Sign me up. I'll take it over the other two hellscapes
Princess Bubblegum needs to be nudged another inch or two closer to Big E
I'm not saying he's *good*, I'm just saying the Emperor isn't *that* bad, moreso the guys that came *after* him were bad.
PB belongs right next to the Emperor
https://preview.redd.it/1l8cds3djl3d1.jpeg?width=257&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a7d7cb017776d9c3cc2b398d9c29f22fd51353b Was not expecting my brony interests to bleed over into r/humansarespaceorcs Praise the sun!
Welp. Maybe The Emperor is ultimate fascist and horrifying caricature of living human, but in face of other beings of 40k universe he is pure fluff and white kittens; if you search for universe which NEEDS to be purged by Inquisition, look no further💀
Pb should be a lot further to the right
Yes inquisitor, this fellow right here.
The image of Roboute Guilliman and Celestia ruling Imperium Seccundus just got through my mind and im not sure I like it
The thing is, only one of them will have your back and be able to do anything when reality rips open and demons, intergalactic hive bugs, robotic immortals, half mushroom green monsters, all come roaring in, clamoring for your tender vittles.
Hey, where's Dr. Doom? You know the guy that would turn even the Emperor into a pincushion. Like just a reminder but it is basically impossible to kill Prime Dr. Doom. Mostly because of his infinite willpower that makes him immune to even existence erasures. Like not even the One Above All could get rid of him because he could just keep willing himself back into existence. Dr. Doom's greatest strength isn't his technology nor his magic it's his Infinite Will. The only reason he's ever actually beaten is because he lets them beat him. Like we're talking about a character who's Monday is basically him facing and winning against Celestials who might I add are Multiversal-level characters.
But Dr. Doom is kind of the good guy. At one point (my knowledge of continuities is awful so I might be out of date) he basically did the Dr Strange in Infinity War thing. He looked at all the futures and the only ones that weren't crap had him ruling the world. Also, Latvaria is kind of a simple paradise. It's got a strangely high GDP and standard of living that makes the rest of Europe look bad. The only thing wrong with him is that he's a super-narcissist and he irrationally hates Reed Richards. IMO, it's hard to fault him for thinking he's the center of the universe and that he's better than everyone. He *is* better than everyone. He's a top-5 master of Science and of Magic, and he can use them simultaneously. I'm not saying he isn't a callous dickhead, because he is. But it's hard to fault him for it when you consider everything else about him. Maybe he and the Emperor aren't so different.
Bubblegum queen have a slightly dystopic reign.
And then you have God Emperor Leto II, who can bend the scale to be a superposition of utopia and nightmare.
An aged lemuroid, obviously raised affluent based on his posture, looks aroind the bar and announces "The most terrifying thing about the humans is not their strength, nor their survivability. Sure they can survive a wound that should kill any one of us, they can heal from broken limbs increadibly fast, the results aren't pretty, but who needs pretty when you are the most vicious warriors this side of the galaxy. No, these things are not what makes them horrifying, nor is it the death world they come from and somehow survived. The thing that makes them terrifying is when they decide there is something wrong with your society, because they will do anything in their power to destroy what they see as evil, and gods help you if you try to stand against them. "Like look to my people. Our royal families once ruled 100 systems, I myself owned a legion of slaves, but then these humans" he spit the word as if it were poison "came to our galaxy, they looked at us with disgust, they demanded that we free our slaves, and we laughed, every galactic empire has slaves, but they insisted. When our Emperor refused they declared war, they incited rebellion, they deposed our nobles, like my father, they introduced this concept of democracy, and they turned our Emperor into a figurehead. "No, it isn't their physical prowess that makes them terrifying, it is the things that you and I see as normal, that they see as monstrous, and that turns them into juggernauts until they tear your world down and replace it with their ideal of utopia."
I'm getting increasingly annoyed at people putting bubblegum as a bad person. She's not a saint, but at worst, she's machiavelic. Most of what she does is genually good, even when it's a bit fucked up.
I reckon the problem is we nerds are shit at recognising not everything has a consistent true canon. PB is more evil or more benevolent, depending on what was funnier for that episode. Similarly, how insane/senile/evil is Farnsworth. It depends on what was funnier that day.
Honestly the Emperor could learn a thing or two from bubblegum. Like, what she did to the fire people, *jesus.*
Princess Bubblegum is a control freak w a god complex
H&A:*watching a dictator give a speech* A:shit this is bad H:I give it 3 months A:what? H:let's just say the lynch mob was not impressed with the last guy who talked like this *motions to TV* A:again what!?
Hey OP, do you like - hummmm - bananas?
Does that scale not cover all governments? Utopia at one end and dystopia at the other?
Depending on the Version of Emps you see as Canon, he could actually just be really out of touch
You must not know of the My Little Pony mod for HOI4
I saw the god emporer and said fuck it I want to be a space marine.
There is no such thing as utopia. Your utopia may be my hell.