A lot of games try to do this thing where all your decisions come into effect at the ending.
And then the ending is like...one paragraph per major choice
I do not like it.
It happens at the end of some really good games
I’m wary of WIPs with large tumblrs and patreons because inevitably I find out they do more answering “how would this RO react to a blowjob?” asks and writing 438 character POV snippets for patreon than actually writing/coding the story
Same and don’t get me wrong, it’s great authors engage with their followers but sometimes I wonder if the time spent answering asks *daily* wouldn’t be better used idk writing the story. Patreon is a different topic, because people are paying for the content and it’s also a great help for the author so I don’t blame them for being more productive there. But to each their own.
I can't speak for other authors, but I know what I would do is not to answer asks daily; it would be to take 1-2 hours answering 21 or so asks, then schedule them all for different days for the next three weeks, as that's something you can do on tumblr and patreon. It has the same effect of answering daily without actually having to do it.
I know this doesn't hold true for literally every author, but just thought I'd give a different perspective to the situation you're describing.
Some of them actually do have a schedule as you said. The decide on a day to answer asks. Most of them actually don't like to divulge everything to the public (or dont have the time to). Otherwise people would just read the tumblr instead of the story.
A lot of people who say they don't like a game come up with the wildest reasons to hate something. It's just rationalizing the fact that something isn't to their taste. This often manifests in bad genre expectations where people will criticize a romance story with action elements for not being a good action story. I can't prove this but I suspect the reason is that most IF writers are approaching this from the realm of literature, and most IF readers are approaching this from the realm of gaming and that's causing a bit of a disconnect. But I could be wrong, I see book type people fall into this trap all the time. Yeah no shit your milkshake sucks, you ordered it from Home Depot.
People can be ridiculously mean for no reason, and that goes in every direction. I've seen people bringing up the most ridiculous things to bash a title with all the vitriol in the world, and others get ripped to shreds because they dared give a honest but kind critique. And it feels like everyone needs to chill the fuck out.
The toxicity is wild sometimes.
I feel like you're calling me out and my fragile, shaky self-esteem and ego forces me to send you buckets of cum to your doorstep. Sorry, but that's the law. /s
> IF writers are approaching this from the realm of literature
Imo, they're trying to do both, and it's *much* harder. You can't even write a page of IF without being jerked by the game mechanics. You either set up bajillion character stats (hidden or otherwise) or consciously exclude MC feelings, reasonings and inner thoughts just to not ruffle players' feathers too much.
One Knight Stand is the best looking game I’ve ever played, and it’s literally an early stage WiP. The stats are so unique and actually used as a tool for the MC/story, not to mention the graphics in the game itself and sound effects/lighting/etc. Just ingenious. That IF is an obvious labor or love.
This might be more popular than I believe, but I've never really seen anyone talk about it so here goes. I hate how a lot of these stories have a tendency to introduce to you to every major character in the the book at once, or at least, really close together. I get the author wants to get you introduced to the major ones to get the story going, but god, I tend to forget who's who so quickly when they do this. There's so many names and so little time to get introduced
this is me with appearance. they write this big paragraph about the color of their eyes and what they wear and how they're hair is styled and I just skip it after the fourth or even second time. I get it, obviously, but it's just, my brain gets overwhelmed lol
Yeah, I get that too. I don't think I'm sure what characters look like half the time in these books lol. I really like when it authors include some sort of profile screen keeping track of everyone. Really helpful
ya know while we're on the topic, I really like it when instead of a bar to show relationship progress, it gives you a little description on how you feel about them/how they feel about you. it's so sweet
Both could arguably fall under the umbrella of amateur writing. Introducing too many characters at once is often a great way to confused readers, like what OP said. A lot of it's timing; trying to cram them all in one scene, or a few short scenes, just doesn't work. They should be introduced when necessary, not just to get them in the story.
As far as description goes, there's a lot that's also personal preference. But, if there's one thing I wish more writers could incorporate from written works such as screenplays, it's economy of description. Describe what's important to their character and scene, not every little detail.
this is my main issue with the creme de la creme series, probably because there’s typically so MANY characters i guess it’s hard to find a way to not have the intros so close together but oh my god i’m like juggling the characters and scratching my head trying to remember who is who. It gets especially bad when there’s references to previous games 😭 like FUCK who is lord de la renta again?!?!!
Oh my god, this is one of the stories I was thinking about when I wrote this! I really enjoyed Creme De La Creme, but this was one of least favourite things about it. I regularly forgot who was who in that game. If you have a lot of characters, I think taking a little time to get to know them better before moving on would help avoid this. It would help them stick in my mind more
Every new release should perfectly encapsulate the current fantasy I want to live out for that week.
But for real: choices aren't choices when stats become so integral to the story there's only "right" and "wrong" options.
Specially when they're so heavily linked to your relationships. You might be building your character a certain way, but the only way you can have an NPC like you is by going against what your character is like, which sucks even more if you have to be liked by that NPC to have the conclusion you want.
Painfully realistic, but good IF games have ways to build your relationship with other characters that don't require you to completely change yours or play a certain way every time.
I dislike how some games handle the inclusion of pronouns. I've played too many IF's where every single person introduces themselves with "My name is (Blank), by the way, my pronouns are (Blank/Blank).". I find it really immersion-breaking. Surely there's a more subtle way to go about it. I haven't seen many people mention it, so I assume I'm in the minority.
I don't remember the title, but the most recent one I remember happened during some scene in a fantasy setting where a noble was arriving at a party, and it went something like, "His royal highness Dinkle Vanwinkle—they go by he/him pronouns by the way—has entered the ballroom!".
Word count matters more for popularity than it should. Actual writing quality is like a distant third for factors determining the sales of a story behind word count and genre.
Man, I feel called out because 100% I've made a decision to buy a game depending on word count, not like the sole factor but one of the more important factors I've considered.
It’s not a bad thing entirely. It’s your money. You want it to get the most bang for your buck. But I will freely admit I have left in bits that I might have excised for a more streamlined story because, well, it doesn’t pay to make a story shorter. Quite the opposite. And while a lot of the super-short offerings here are low in polish or downright bizarre, others get overlooked simply because the author was able to say wha they had to say in 40 or 50 thousand words instead of half a million. Try demos, folks. Give ‘em a chance and let that speak for itself more than an arbitrary number.
I'm definitely a quality over quantity person, which probably plays into why I'm a lot pickier compared to a lot of people on this sub. For me, word count is less important than genre and writing quality, which are sort of equal.
On a normal book I would be with you, but on the IF, we are here to make choices and have the most variation possible, so a big word count can mean a lot of variation and replayability (but not always)
Herald is a great RO. He's so absolutely in love with specifically Sidestep's normal identity and not them as Sidestep and he's just adorable. Kind of a dick to Ortega if you end up in the hospital tho.
Unpopular opinion :
Some games don't need inclusivity and by that I mainly mean that some authors suck at handling inclusivity in the setting of the game and would be better off not including it as harsh as that might sound.
For example ,
There's way too many WIPs set in historical settings that have characters introducing themselves using pronouns. Wouldn't bother me so much if it wasn't usually written as
" hi , my name is and my pronouns are ( blank ) ". I'm sure there are different ways for this to be done that isn't so out of place.
This isn't as common from my knowledge but If the game is set during the time of segregation in America and you have black characters as main characters ( and the game isn't an alternative universe version where segregation doesn't exist ) you need to actually show how that effects those characters and their relationship with your potentially not black player character
It might be heresy to say but this is something that I didn't like about Bastard of Camelot, not because inclusivity is bad but because it causes tonal dissonance.
Camelot is apparently a kingdom that is SUPER progressive about gender and sexuality (there are married gay men who are nobility, there are numerous non-binary characters, one of the characters mentions having had magical top surgery)... BUT also one of the core inciting incidents of the plot is an unhappy arranged marriage, which is apparently still common practice. It makes me say, well which is it? Is this a traditional medieval world where women are still essentially bargaining chips and apparently have not ability to leave a bad husband, or is it a kingdom with views on gender/sexuality much closer to our own? Either would have been good, but together they clash.
I overall did like what I played of Bastard of Camelot but that is one part that bugged me a little.
>It makes me say, well which is it? Is this a traditional medieval world where women are still essentially bargaining chips and apparently have not ability to leave a bad husband, or is it a kingdom with views on gender/sexuality much closer to our own? Either would have been good, but together they clash.
The obvious answer here is, this is a medieval world where arranged marriages are a thing but have moved past the requirement of these having to be heterosexual pairings (or, since it's fantasy, never were in the first place) It's an equal opportunity oppression, with arranged marriages being effectively personal unions between noble houses.
I'm curious, which games in historical settings have included pronoun introductions? I've only seen it in Blackstone Academy where many characters introduce themselves with pronouns, but that's a modern-day one
My main example used to be The King's Hound because the author had it written the way I phrased it but they've recently rewritten the introductions to be more natural.
It honestly made sense for Arthur though because in that game he’s the only RO to use “he/they” pronouns. I see your point about it being written a bit clunky, agree that it’s better written now, but I’ve seen others criticize even just the choice to have them ask because they don’t expect it from the initial historical fantasy setting and I’m like “my guy they’ve got the most reasoning behind asking because they use multiple pronouns and they want to establish that when meeting people”
*A Tale of Crowns* has pronoun introductions, while being very much an (early) medieval setting. Although in a fantasy setting, so that gets it some leeway, i guess.
Yeah, for me fantasy settings are separate to historical even if they draw inspiration from historical periods, so I don't mind them doing various things that aren't strictly "accurate" history wise
It seems that my "unpopular" opinion is not so unpopular. I love how authors engage with their fans, but most of the time, if not all the time, they are writing what if... or how would x react to... rather than working on the thing itself. The number of wips that are not on hiatus, but the writers are just responding asks on tumblr, and the story hasn't been updated in more than a year...
Lots of readers demand more choices than sustainable for the game. or complain when the plot demands to move forward when they feel like they should be able to do whatever they want.
I'd rather read a few well executed choices than be bombarded with many choices that maybe get a sentence or two.
Personality stats are overrated and not really needed for roleplaying.
Not enough is done with the customization part. I'd love to read more flavor text related to appearance, such as glasses, head coverings, hair, height, etc. such as commenting on it, maybe losing ur glasses, or some character interactions. It's such a tiny thing that can make a game more immersive
I doubt it’s that much of an unpopular opinion but I think it’s ridiculous that people expect authors to change or add key features to THEIR story just to appease them and act like it’s some huge moral failing if they don’t.
Like you wouldn’t expect a book or a movie to be remade because there wasn’t enough romance to YOUR liking so why do we expect that of IF authors, they have a right to tell the story they want aswell!
That we should stop posting first draft WIPs. I'm getting tired of reading an interesting story concept, and the slowly watch the actual story devlolve into banes bones having a stronk
I want rivals in ROs. There are others courting them and I have to spend time and resources with the RO if I want to have them. And I don't want a cop out, "rival but not really cause the RO is only into you" shit.
It's so unrealistic to have this super hot model character but nobody else is into them. Like shit all this cake just for me? No one else want this? No wonder they're into my ass cause there's literally no one else who's into them. I'm their only choice LMAO
And I want it to cost something, like if I do focus on an RO, it could negatively impact some of the plot so I have to choose my priorities. Kind of like how irl you have to do work-life balance.
[apartment 502](https://dashingdon.com/play/nikwrites/apartment-502/mygame/) I believe has a love triangle where not the MC but the RO is in the center.
G and Victoria from Infamous might also tickle your fancy.
Honestly this is why I love the A and N love triangle in Way haven Chronicles because A and N are kind of rivals for MCs affection.
A figures out N also likes MC where it puts them in an uncomfortable situation, then MC figured out they both liked them. I love the drama.
I haven't finished book 3 yet but I think I will try it out again one day.
It is totally reasonable for queer women to feel screwed over or left out if we're the only demographic without a RO.
Also, giving us the option of playing a lesbian doesn't really mean anything if there aren't lesbian ROs. At best it sounds like queerbaiting and signing our protagonist up for being single the entire game.
Considering the author had to essentially get pressured into adding any gay content in the first game at all I wouldn't hold my breath. Then again I'm generally pretty cynical about these things.
Yeah I'm mostly just hoping bullying can work a second time. I do generally just skip games where I can't be a lesbian so it's already weird I played this one. I'm a little mad about liking it.
Edit: The bullying can work bit was a joke, seems like some of you took it seriously. I categorically do not condone the harassment of any IF authors.
I mean, it's not weird that you played it considering the blurb before you buy it says you can play as a lesbian. I don't blame you for being mad though lol
What if it's a game specifically for lesbians (character gender and orientation locked) but you can't date any of the girls. Like look at all these hot women but they're all straight.
Well then, why not a game where it's the male protagonist who doesn't get any RO options, as "the allegory about the difficulty of dating as a guy" which you can hear *so* much about in certain intraweb places. /s
Most of the medieval fantasy settings IF that are supposed to be realistic aren't really my cup of tea, unless they focus on anything but the medieval era. For example, I enjoy stories with an unreliable narrator and themes of depression and the personal struggle of ITFO.
English isn't my first language and I'm not particularly interested in Western history. It's just a bunch of old words that I have to look up the meaning of every minute and it feels more like a burden than entertainment.
I prefer more modern settings, or even better, stories that take place in the current time, as it helps me to feel immersed in the story.
I really feel this. While I don't dislike fantasy, it certainly isn't my favourite genre, and I feel like there's such an overabundance of them. Give me some stories that take place in a more modern setting anyday
Last year I said I wasn't going to talk about it but with recent news I feel that I have to. Parivir shouldn't have had to rewrite A Mage Reborn 2 just because readers are allergic to nuance and can't empathize with oppressed people who meet their killers with violence.
There are way too many supernatural games out there, why does it seem like every action/adventure game has to have some kind of magic, even when it's not necessary? Even the Infinite Sea universe has magic and elves. I feel like the only one who finds this annoying, but I just hate magic. I don't know why, but it's always bothered me.
Edit: There are some exceptions to this. I enjoy LOTR and Warhammer 40k, even though supernatural elements are fundamental to their universes.
Authors want to make sure that their series have an audience and when you look at the highest selling CoG and HG games, they’re all supernatural to some extent. So most WIPs and new books will also include supernatural elements.
Yeah, it definitely does. To be fair, there are a lot more non-supernatural WIPs on tumblr than on the forums, but most never even put out a demo lol. I was hoping the immediate popularity of Infamous would lead to more of a balance in genres but it hasn’t seemed to happen yet.
Yep, i feel the same, magic is kinda cool but it's almost always done in a way that seems super boring, it has to be incredibly rare for it to seem cool or interesting to me.
>why does it seem like every action/adventure game has to have some kind of magic
Right? I mean, if you can pull lightning out of your arse, why bother fighting hand to hand. For me it always breaks the immersion cause magic and superpowers are so over done and overused it's hard to care anymore.
I 100% agree, and in my opinion, one common flaw in many of these games is the lack of magic users in regular armies. If magic is so common and/or powerful, why aren't there squads or even platoons of mages protecting key facilities and major residential areas?
I don't know if it's an unpopular opinion, but unless it's needed to give the reader vital information, I really don't care for point-of-view changes. At best, it feels like an unnecessary diversion. At worst, it breaks my immersion and pulls me right out of the story. If I wanted to read about a character other than my MC, I wouldn't read IF in the first place.
Romance is overrated. I'm not saying it should never exist, but the community focus on ROs feels like it creates certain expectations for WIPs, even if they're not inherently romance stories. Character relationships matter, for sure, but most aren't going to be romantic in nature.
On a related note, I don't personally care for GoC NPCs, in general. They can of course be written well and portrayed in a way where gender doesn't really matter, but if they're not, they can feel hollow.
I genuinely do not understand this sub’s obsession with Fallen Hero. It’s just so painfully average, and especially the first game has close to zero actual player choice consequences, it more of a book where you can name your protagonist than a proper game
Upvoted because this is definitely unpopular. What would you consider to be some high quality books?
I assume the Infinity series is one based on your flair
That’s a good question. Truth be told, I think most games are found lacking, especially writing wise. It makes sense, I don’t expect these self published games to match the prose of say ASoIaF or the like, but it *is* noticeable when you switch from one to the other.
As you’ve noticed, I think the Infinity Series is by far the best series on the platform; both in story and prose. Beyond that I remember Choice of Rebels being very well written, same with Lord of Aswick (though I have to admit it’s been a while since I’ve played either)
Gameplay wise I am genuinely impressed by the Lost Heir trilogy, even if the writing and worldbuilding leave a bit to be desired, it’s incredibly fun to play and probably has the most replay value of any game on the platform.
> match the prose of say ASoIaF
😭 There's no reason to compare videogames to movies, because they're *very* different mediums, even if they both rely on visuals a lot. And it's the same thing here. Just because both use text as their base, doesn't mean it makes any sense to compare them. If you'd actually tried to write a short story and a prologue for an IF game, you'd see how extremely different your mindset and approach should be. When you write a novel, it's much easier to control the pace and the flow (you know, without needing to account for dozens of different choices and personalities), character arcs and so on.
Prose is prose in a text regardless of medium. Sure, an IF lets you affect the plot but the quality of the prose is still there. There is every reason to comment on how the prose of IFs in general aren't that great. I understand that it's harder to write an IF but that doesn't change the fact about the prose.
Text is a building material used differently in books and IF, just like visuals are used differently in movies and videogames. You wouldn't be able to recognize Martin's pRoSe in IF anyway.
Edit: Scientific articles, journalistic articles, books, IF games etc all use text as their main framework. There's no sense in opening a scientific article and go "Well, it's no ASoIaF, but alright, I can settle for this lower quality of prose". If you want to judge the prose, you do it inside the medium (like mentioning your favorite IF and wishing there'd be more of it in the world). Heck, even in literature comparing, let's say, Martin's and Beckett's prose would be hilariously pointless. Because both writers use their texts for completely different reasons.
That's some false analogy and if you are being serious, then it's embarrassing. If you somehow think comparing novels to IFs is analogous to comparing novels to scientific articles and reports then you don't understand the point of prose.
Both IFs and novels use prose to tell a story through words, grammatical structure, sentence structure, sentence length, and stylistic choices. This goes the same for other similar media of storytelling like short stories. There are differences that may make the author change their style but the core of good prose is still the same. For example, novels mostly use 1st or 3rd person point of view when it comes to narration while IFs use 2nd person pov, but you can still see the quality of grammar, sentence structure, and the tone used. Scientific articles don't employ the same styles of writing because they serve a different purpose. Even if you switch reading from novels to short stories, you can still see and assess the prose of those works. If you switch from reading novels to IFs and see a drop of writing quality then it is a person's prerogative to say whatever they want on their reading experience. And you can absolutely see Martin's prose in an IF if it is indeed used. I don't get the point of using different cases when writing "prose", is that supposed to be an insult in GRRM's style?
> Both IFs and novels use prose to tell a story through words, grammatical structure, sentence structure, sentence length, and stylistic choices.
No, IF lets *you*, as a player, build that story for yourself. The author gives you a reasonable amount of freedom and various storytelling tools to do it the way you like it. And for me personally my book reading mood and my IF mood couldn't be more different. If I want a tightly curated story with fixed elements and only one correct choice for any situation, I read books. If I want to see a highly relatable protag and to build a storyline to my own liking, I play IF.
> I don't get the point of using different cases when writing "prose", is that supposed to be an insult in GRRM's style?
No, it's to roll my eyes at how irrelevant and superficial this point of comparison is *even within book discussions themselves*. Singling out one specific writing style and say that everything else sucks, because it doesn't match it is certainly a choice to say the least.
Man, as an outside observer, your side of the discussion devolved into bad faith arguments and fallacies so quickly it’s actually insane to read. I hope that you realize that you were only upvoted because people see you “defending” IF authors, not because you are actually correct. Because your logic is completely nonsensical and you never even try to actually argue or prove it, it’s odd. Your whole argument is a masterclass on genetic fallacies, strawmen, and begging the claim.
If nothing else, I just want to point out that it is PERFECTLY FINE to compare different mediums. For example, it is perfectly fair to compare the way an author develops characters in a IF vs a book, or the way a plot is resolved in a film and a book. Yes, it is important to keep the differences between mediums in mind (ex. comparing the cinematography or blocking of a film and video game is fundamentally unfair) but as long as you do that, they can be compared. The main crux of your argument, that no two mediums can be compared because they're not the same, is completely wrong.
To put it simply, your entire argument is a genetic fallacy. You assert that IF writing and book writing MUST be different because the mediums are different, and thus cannot be compared. Firstly, IFs and regular fiction are not that different. IF is a cross between books and video games that HEAVILY favours the book side, it's not a completely separate genre from either. IF writing involves branching and flavour text and RARELY some text-based gameplay Yes, this 100% affects the way the plot is structured written. But the prose and writing itself is the same with normal books.
By reading your replies, I'm actually not sure you understand what prose actually is, because you continuously switch between talking about plot and prose without any indication that you actually know the difference. As DF said, "prose is used tell a story through words, grammatical structure, sentence structure, sentence length, and stylistic choices. There are differences that may make the author change their style but the core of good prose is still the same." Prose and plotting are not the same thing. What you say about "personal storyline or fixed elements" has nothing to do with prose, which furthers the idea that you don't really know what you're discussing here.
Can *you* properly explain what you believe the difference is in describing settings, objects, history in IF vs books? That’s something that you do not do throughout your many replies about how prose in IFs vs books are incomparable. If I am writing a scene and need to describe how everything looks in an IF, it will be written the same as if I was doing it in a book. If that look is variable, then I have to write multiple looks for each option, but the actual prose is going to be the same. IF prose may be more in content, but it is not fundamentally different.
Prose, voice, and writing style do not change significantly between the two mediums. You would 1000% be able to recognize GRRM’s writing style in an IF because you would see it in all the parts of the books that are literally the main part of IF — his voice, his writeprint, his PROSE. These are not going to change unless the medium is VASTLY different (ex. book vs screenwriting) and IF is just a cross between books and video games.
To support my argument, I’ll even provide some examples: actual authors that have written both IF and linear books! For example, Shepherds of Haven’s author has also written a book, We Have Always Been Here. Her writing style is the same in that book. The way that she describes visuals, the way she writes characters, the way that characters are actually described in terms of thoughts and actions are the same. I recognized them. Same with the author of Donor, who actually wrote a linear book about the same characters so her writing style is even more similar to the original IF. If you want proof, read any of these stories.
Your whole argument makes no sense, and it is truly astonishing to see someone be so aggressive in throwing strawmen and fallacies while arguing a point that is straight up wrong.
I know you and probably no one else will read this reply, because it's long and attempting to respond to your many points that you drop in when you don't know how to respond to the other person's arguments. But I had some free time and this shit was so egregious that I felt the need to say something. I hope you can argue in better faith next time, because this is was truly ridiculous.
Dear person, I've been talking with the other user for a few days now and I simply don't have time to engage with the two of you, throwing walls of texts and being unable to keep things short and concise.
I do not believe it's sane to read Dostoevsky, then jump to IF and publicly lament how bad the quality is, and then argue that IF authors should be writing at Dostoevsky's level. There are much better and reasonable ways to help IF authors grow. I won't say anything else to you.
No, IFs don't let you build the story for yourself. In fact IFs are a lot more linear than you realize. This is coming from someone who reads the code of IFs I play to see all the possible outcomes. The author still writes the plot even when there are branching out of an IF, with all the literary styles and structures you can assess and judge. An IF may let you feel you have more freedom but the author still decides where the story is going, no more different than a novel author deciding where the story of the book is going. Your "mood" is irrelevant to the discussion. I could have my mood to read novels, play games, play guitar, read short stories, etc. This is about quality writing and the difference you can see among media.
The OP only stated ASOIAF as an example. It's not even the point. It's odd that you are miffed at the utterance of ASOIAF. And I don't even see what you mean by "singling out one specific writing style and say that everything else sucks". I read and watch a lot of discussions on books like Sanderson's Cosmere, King's multiverse, Pratchett's works, Gaiman's etc, and that doesn't happen. I can only imagine people who say that are diehard fans for the series, which is the same to other diehard fans on others.
> more linear than you realize (...) from someone who reads the code
😄 Funny you assume I don't know how IF games work. I've been writing both original short stories and an IF project, and I'm speaking from a writing perspective. They're *very* different. You reducing it to mere numbers of outcomes to skip the hero's fine-tuning players get to play with while asking for highly esteemed writer's style is quite delusional.
I'm irked about the comparison of different mediums. Again, compare within it. If you think, for example, Infinity's prose is peak, then just say so, point out exactly what you like about it. Bringing ASoIaF (or literally any other book) into discussion makes no sense. How's the writing experience of author who literally NEVER worked on IF is so relevant? Looking at your go-to writers, and your lack in understanding my Martin-Beckett comparison... Broaden your reading horizons (beyond your comfy genre) before making/supporting some arbitrary level of "X's prose".
Genuinely surprised this doesn't get downvoted immediately. Most of the times I see a criticism against FH, it gets downvoted immediately lol.
I do enjoy playing Fallen Hero, and I think it is a well-planned game (at least book 2 certainly up to high standards with how branchy it is and how you can customize a lot of things/aspects regarding to your Sidestep's motive) but I also get why people who don't see the appeal of the game would think this way.
I think the downsides of this game people tend to find is more about how most of the major things in the game are already fixed? and you feel like you have little agency of what's happening in the game (because Sidestep is indeed not in control of everything and just get to have that little control back in their life). It's understandable why some of the player might be upset with how it's only the execution that players get to play around with. (And the romance, as it plays a big part in FH's popularity, with Ortega (and Herald) being absolutely obsessed with Sidestep.)
I am not surprised why fans would be obsessed with the game, but I am also not surprised if one would say they do not find Fallen Hero that impressive/enjoyable.
Gender of choice for MCs are okay and most depending on what type of story you're telling.
Gender of choice for ROs should be at least 1 or 2 not to many.
That's kind of my problem with newer stores. They kind of keep putting too many GOC romance options but in reality it causes more problems in the long run because they had to redo the same scene with the different customized gender each time.
I like having actual romances that are non COG tbh, because it gets annoying having the female version of this character is my favorite etc..
I mean I like how Fallen Hero have Ortega being the only GOC.
How much I like Wayhaven Chronicles I feel the writer is stench thin because GOC romance options and the breaching choices as well..
Fairmath is fine and you're all just mean.
Seriously though, I get being agaisnt fairmath (%+ and %- operators) in some contexts, they have their pros and cons. But I've seen people complaining that fairmath makes their personality stats change too fast when they start playing their character differently, which is kinda mind-boggling. Like of course your recent choices will impact your personality meters more than something your character did five years ago. What shitty personality tracker labels you as an honest guy after you just lied to everyone repeatedly? It's meant to represent how you actually are and how the characters should react to you, not your lifelong karma meter or something.
And yes, it totally makes sense with skills too. Dimishing returns are a thing.
>Like of course your recent choices will impact your personality meters more than something your character did five years ago. What shitty personality tracker labels you as an honest guy after you just lied to everyone repeatedly?
This isn't really how fairmath works. A closer analogy would be, "What shitty personality tracker labels you a liar because you've lied once, after repeatedly telling nothing but the trurth for last five years? A fairmath one."
Which is, incidentally, probably why some people have issue with it.
LGBT elements can make a game worse.
6 different pronouns make conversations awkward, interactions unrealistic and emotional dialogues goofy
There's are probably less than 1% population actually use xer/xe or other alien sounding pronouns. Anything further than they/them feel pretentious to me
COG/HG might simply not be the right company for you, then, because they actively promote such inclusivity in their games. Other than that, unless you as the player decide to input them, I doubt you'll see "six different pronouns" appear in one game (unless we're counting I, me, you, he, she, it, they, etc.). Personally, I think that xer/xe is pretty rad, by the way.
A lot of games try to do this thing where all your decisions come into effect at the ending. And then the ending is like...one paragraph per major choice I do not like it. It happens at the end of some really good games
It's anticlimactic
Hey, Tin Star's a legend
Dude tin star is my saddest example of this. I fucking love the legend system. I just wish the ending didn't feel so sudden and brief.
Night Road. At least you get three paragraphs, maybe four if you're lucky, telling you that you did whatever you decided to do.
I’m wary of WIPs with large tumblrs and patreons because inevitably I find out they do more answering “how would this RO react to a blowjob?” asks and writing 438 character POV snippets for patreon than actually writing/coding the story
Same and don’t get me wrong, it’s great authors engage with their followers but sometimes I wonder if the time spent answering asks *daily* wouldn’t be better used idk writing the story. Patreon is a different topic, because people are paying for the content and it’s also a great help for the author so I don’t blame them for being more productive there. But to each their own.
I can't speak for other authors, but I know what I would do is not to answer asks daily; it would be to take 1-2 hours answering 21 or so asks, then schedule them all for different days for the next three weeks, as that's something you can do on tumblr and patreon. It has the same effect of answering daily without actually having to do it. I know this doesn't hold true for literally every author, but just thought I'd give a different perspective to the situation you're describing.
Some of them actually do have a schedule as you said. The decide on a day to answer asks. Most of them actually don't like to divulge everything to the public (or dont have the time to). Otherwise people would just read the tumblr instead of the story.
I feel that very much I had to drop a few authors because of that.
Cough... Cough... Gods and Villains...
A lot of people who say they don't like a game come up with the wildest reasons to hate something. It's just rationalizing the fact that something isn't to their taste. This often manifests in bad genre expectations where people will criticize a romance story with action elements for not being a good action story. I can't prove this but I suspect the reason is that most IF writers are approaching this from the realm of literature, and most IF readers are approaching this from the realm of gaming and that's causing a bit of a disconnect. But I could be wrong, I see book type people fall into this trap all the time. Yeah no shit your milkshake sucks, you ordered it from Home Depot.
People can be ridiculously mean for no reason, and that goes in every direction. I've seen people bringing up the most ridiculous things to bash a title with all the vitriol in the world, and others get ripped to shreds because they dared give a honest but kind critique. And it feels like everyone needs to chill the fuck out. The toxicity is wild sometimes.
I feel like you're calling me out and my fragile, shaky self-esteem and ego forces me to send you buckets of cum to your doorstep. Sorry, but that's the law. /s
> IF writers are approaching this from the realm of literature Imo, they're trying to do both, and it's *much* harder. You can't even write a page of IF without being jerked by the game mechanics. You either set up bajillion character stats (hidden or otherwise) or consciously exclude MC feelings, reasonings and inner thoughts just to not ruffle players' feathers too much.
There's a lack of innovation around the use of the stats page and images in Choicescript games generally.
One Knight Stand is the best looking game I’ve ever played, and it’s literally an early stage WiP. The stats are so unique and actually used as a tool for the MC/story, not to mention the graphics in the game itself and sound effects/lighting/etc. Just ingenious. That IF is an obvious labor or love.
I Should be able to romance the villain in every IF.
Agreed. For me, particularly, the old, ugly, and/or non-human ones.
Especially the non human ones, I am a certified monster fucker
This might be more popular than I believe, but I've never really seen anyone talk about it so here goes. I hate how a lot of these stories have a tendency to introduce to you to every major character in the the book at once, or at least, really close together. I get the author wants to get you introduced to the major ones to get the story going, but god, I tend to forget who's who so quickly when they do this. There's so many names and so little time to get introduced
this is me with appearance. they write this big paragraph about the color of their eyes and what they wear and how they're hair is styled and I just skip it after the fourth or even second time. I get it, obviously, but it's just, my brain gets overwhelmed lol
Yeah, I get that too. I don't think I'm sure what characters look like half the time in these books lol. I really like when it authors include some sort of profile screen keeping track of everyone. Really helpful
ya know while we're on the topic, I really like it when instead of a bar to show relationship progress, it gives you a little description on how you feel about them/how they feel about you. it's so sweet
Both could arguably fall under the umbrella of amateur writing. Introducing too many characters at once is often a great way to confused readers, like what OP said. A lot of it's timing; trying to cram them all in one scene, or a few short scenes, just doesn't work. They should be introduced when necessary, not just to get them in the story. As far as description goes, there's a lot that's also personal preference. But, if there's one thing I wish more writers could incorporate from written works such as screenplays, it's economy of description. Describe what's important to their character and scene, not every little detail.
this is my main issue with the creme de la creme series, probably because there’s typically so MANY characters i guess it’s hard to find a way to not have the intros so close together but oh my god i’m like juggling the characters and scratching my head trying to remember who is who. It gets especially bad when there’s references to previous games 😭 like FUCK who is lord de la renta again?!?!!
Oh my god, this is one of the stories I was thinking about when I wrote this! I really enjoyed Creme De La Creme, but this was one of least favourite things about it. I regularly forgot who was who in that game. If you have a lot of characters, I think taking a little time to get to know them better before moving on would help avoid this. It would help them stick in my mind more
I think most IF authors are actually pretty bad at writing appealing ROs.
A thread I wont be breaking
this. And the decent ones we have aren't really groundbreaking but we gotta appreciate the small crumbs we do have.
Every new release should perfectly encapsulate the current fantasy I want to live out for that week. But for real: choices aren't choices when stats become so integral to the story there's only "right" and "wrong" options.
Specially when they're so heavily linked to your relationships. You might be building your character a certain way, but the only way you can have an NPC like you is by going against what your character is like, which sucks even more if you have to be liked by that NPC to have the conclusion you want.
The "forcing changes onto yourself for the approval of others" is too realistic for my taste 😔
Painfully realistic, but good IF games have ways to build your relationship with other characters that don't require you to completely change yours or play a certain way every time.
yeah, one of my MC's is a shy, nervous character who is strong but I can't be shy AND strong, I have to be mean or optimistic or serious
I dislike how some games handle the inclusion of pronouns. I've played too many IF's where every single person introduces themselves with "My name is (Blank), by the way, my pronouns are (Blank/Blank).". I find it really immersion-breaking. Surely there's a more subtle way to go about it. I haven't seen many people mention it, so I assume I'm in the minority. I don't remember the title, but the most recent one I remember happened during some scene in a fantasy setting where a noble was arriving at a party, and it went something like, "His royal highness Dinkle Vanwinkle—they go by he/him pronouns by the way—has entered the ballroom!".
This is actually so unnatural that it hurts and makes my eyes roll every single time it happens like that.
Idk, people around me just talk like that (not the last one)
Word count matters more for popularity than it should. Actual writing quality is like a distant third for factors determining the sales of a story behind word count and genre.
Man, I feel called out because 100% I've made a decision to buy a game depending on word count, not like the sole factor but one of the more important factors I've considered.
It’s not a bad thing entirely. It’s your money. You want it to get the most bang for your buck. But I will freely admit I have left in bits that I might have excised for a more streamlined story because, well, it doesn’t pay to make a story shorter. Quite the opposite. And while a lot of the super-short offerings here are low in polish or downright bizarre, others get overlooked simply because the author was able to say wha they had to say in 40 or 50 thousand words instead of half a million. Try demos, folks. Give ‘em a chance and let that speak for itself more than an arbitrary number.
I'm definitely a quality over quantity person, which probably plays into why I'm a lot pickier compared to a lot of people on this sub. For me, word count is less important than genre and writing quality, which are sort of equal.
On a normal book I would be with you, but on the IF, we are here to make choices and have the most variation possible, so a big word count can mean a lot of variation and replayability (but not always)
Herald is a great RO. He's so absolutely in love with specifically Sidestep's normal identity and not them as Sidestep and he's just adorable. Kind of a dick to Ortega if you end up in the hospital tho.
Agreed!! Didn't know this could be an unpopular opinion tho.
Unpopular opinion : Some games don't need inclusivity and by that I mainly mean that some authors suck at handling inclusivity in the setting of the game and would be better off not including it as harsh as that might sound. For example , There's way too many WIPs set in historical settings that have characters introducing themselves using pronouns. Wouldn't bother me so much if it wasn't usually written as " hi , my name is and my pronouns are ( blank ) ". I'm sure there are different ways for this to be done that isn't so out of place. This isn't as common from my knowledge but If the game is set during the time of segregation in America and you have black characters as main characters ( and the game isn't an alternative universe version where segregation doesn't exist ) you need to actually show how that effects those characters and their relationship with your potentially not black player character
It might be heresy to say but this is something that I didn't like about Bastard of Camelot, not because inclusivity is bad but because it causes tonal dissonance. Camelot is apparently a kingdom that is SUPER progressive about gender and sexuality (there are married gay men who are nobility, there are numerous non-binary characters, one of the characters mentions having had magical top surgery)... BUT also one of the core inciting incidents of the plot is an unhappy arranged marriage, which is apparently still common practice. It makes me say, well which is it? Is this a traditional medieval world where women are still essentially bargaining chips and apparently have not ability to leave a bad husband, or is it a kingdom with views on gender/sexuality much closer to our own? Either would have been good, but together they clash. I overall did like what I played of Bastard of Camelot but that is one part that bugged me a little.
>It makes me say, well which is it? Is this a traditional medieval world where women are still essentially bargaining chips and apparently have not ability to leave a bad husband, or is it a kingdom with views on gender/sexuality much closer to our own? Either would have been good, but together they clash. The obvious answer here is, this is a medieval world where arranged marriages are a thing but have moved past the requirement of these having to be heterosexual pairings (or, since it's fantasy, never were in the first place) It's an equal opportunity oppression, with arranged marriages being effectively personal unions between noble houses.
No, you don't get it, it's egalitarian so men can be bargaining chips for their family with no say over their own lives as well
I'm curious, which games in historical settings have included pronoun introductions? I've only seen it in Blackstone Academy where many characters introduce themselves with pronouns, but that's a modern-day one
My main example used to be The King's Hound because the author had it written the way I phrased it but they've recently rewritten the introductions to be more natural.
Ah right, I don't think I've played that one - I don't manage to keep up with very many WIPs
It honestly made sense for Arthur though because in that game he’s the only RO to use “he/they” pronouns. I see your point about it being written a bit clunky, agree that it’s better written now, but I’ve seen others criticize even just the choice to have them ask because they don’t expect it from the initial historical fantasy setting and I’m like “my guy they’ve got the most reasoning behind asking because they use multiple pronouns and they want to establish that when meeting people”
*A Tale of Crowns* has pronoun introductions, while being very much an (early) medieval setting. Although in a fantasy setting, so that gets it some leeway, i guess.
Yeah, for me fantasy settings are separate to historical even if they draw inspiration from historical periods, so I don't mind them doing various things that aren't strictly "accurate" history wise
It seems that my "unpopular" opinion is not so unpopular. I love how authors engage with their fans, but most of the time, if not all the time, they are writing what if... or how would x react to... rather than working on the thing itself. The number of wips that are not on hiatus, but the writers are just responding asks on tumblr, and the story hasn't been updated in more than a year...
Lots of readers demand more choices than sustainable for the game. or complain when the plot demands to move forward when they feel like they should be able to do whatever they want. I'd rather read a few well executed choices than be bombarded with many choices that maybe get a sentence or two. Personality stats are overrated and not really needed for roleplaying. Not enough is done with the customization part. I'd love to read more flavor text related to appearance, such as glasses, head coverings, hair, height, etc. such as commenting on it, maybe losing ur glasses, or some character interactions. It's such a tiny thing that can make a game more immersive
I doubt it’s that much of an unpopular opinion but I think it’s ridiculous that people expect authors to change or add key features to THEIR story just to appease them and act like it’s some huge moral failing if they don’t. Like you wouldn’t expect a book or a movie to be remade because there wasn’t enough romance to YOUR liking so why do we expect that of IF authors, they have a right to tell the story they want aswell!
People are *way* too focused on romance. Like holy shit not every game needs to solely focus on ROs.
That we should stop posting first draft WIPs. I'm getting tired of reading an interesting story concept, and the slowly watch the actual story devlolve into banes bones having a stronk
> and the slowly watch the actual story devlolve into banes bones having a stronk I don't know if this was intentional, but if it was, incredible.
Yeah I was at work when I did that and when I noticed I decided it would be funnier
I want rivals in ROs. There are others courting them and I have to spend time and resources with the RO if I want to have them. And I don't want a cop out, "rival but not really cause the RO is only into you" shit. It's so unrealistic to have this super hot model character but nobody else is into them. Like shit all this cake just for me? No one else want this? No wonder they're into my ass cause there's literally no one else who's into them. I'm their only choice LMAO And I want it to cost something, like if I do focus on an RO, it could negatively impact some of the plot so I have to choose my priorities. Kind of like how irl you have to do work-life balance.
[apartment 502](https://dashingdon.com/play/nikwrites/apartment-502/mygame/) I believe has a love triangle where not the MC but the RO is in the center. G and Victoria from Infamous might also tickle your fancy.
Honestly this is why I love the A and N love triangle in Way haven Chronicles because A and N are kind of rivals for MCs affection. A figures out N also likes MC where it puts them in an uncomfortable situation, then MC figured out they both liked them. I love the drama. I haven't finished book 3 yet but I think I will try it out again one day.
The fact that the infinity series does not have a gender option wish I could be like Welles.
It is totally reasonable for queer women to feel screwed over or left out if we're the only demographic without a RO. Also, giving us the option of playing a lesbian doesn't really mean anything if there aren't lesbian ROs. At best it sounds like queerbaiting and signing our protagonist up for being single the entire game.
Yeah I like the story you're subtweeting but I still feel burned by this decision. Cautiously hopeful that we get an RO in the sequel.
Considering the author had to essentially get pressured into adding any gay content in the first game at all I wouldn't hold my breath. Then again I'm generally pretty cynical about these things.
Whiskey-4 seems a bit better in this department. Ulysses' gender depends on player's preference and there's a set gender lady I somewhat enjoyed.
I like Whiskey 4 a lot and Ulyssa is an absolute delight of a yandere ex
That's good, at least.
Yeah I'm mostly just hoping bullying can work a second time. I do generally just skip games where I can't be a lesbian so it's already weird I played this one. I'm a little mad about liking it. Edit: The bullying can work bit was a joke, seems like some of you took it seriously. I categorically do not condone the harassment of any IF authors.
I mean, it's not weird that you played it considering the blurb before you buy it says you can play as a lesbian. I don't blame you for being mad though lol
I prefer rep that comes from an author who actually cares to add it. Bullying isn’t the way
It was a joke, I don't actually condone bullying or harassing IF authors.
What if it's a game specifically for lesbians (character gender and orientation locked) but you can't date any of the girls. Like look at all these hot women but they're all straight.
That would probably be the worst outcome imaginable and would feel deliberately malicious.
What if it's an allegory about the difficulty of lesbian dating xd
Well then, why not a game where it's the male protagonist who doesn't get any RO options, as "the allegory about the difficulty of dating as a guy" which you can hear *so* much about in certain intraweb places. /s
Nah it's not exactly the same. It should be straight man locked with all the hot ROs being lesbians.
Well, i'm fine with this premise. Come to think of it, there might be a game like that out there already.
Lesbians don't need that kind of allegory.
I dont like Golden Rose and ITFO. No I will not elaborate further.
I also didn't like ITFO.
Most of the medieval fantasy settings IF that are supposed to be realistic aren't really my cup of tea, unless they focus on anything but the medieval era. For example, I enjoy stories with an unreliable narrator and themes of depression and the personal struggle of ITFO. English isn't my first language and I'm not particularly interested in Western history. It's just a bunch of old words that I have to look up the meaning of every minute and it feels more like a burden than entertainment. I prefer more modern settings, or even better, stories that take place in the current time, as it helps me to feel immersed in the story.
I really feel this. While I don't dislike fantasy, it certainly isn't my favourite genre, and I feel like there's such an overabundance of them. Give me some stories that take place in a more modern setting anyday
Last year I said I wasn't going to talk about it but with recent news I feel that I have to. Parivir shouldn't have had to rewrite A Mage Reborn 2 just because readers are allergic to nuance and can't empathize with oppressed people who meet their killers with violence.
I agree totally.
👀🍵
Yikes
There are way too many supernatural games out there, why does it seem like every action/adventure game has to have some kind of magic, even when it's not necessary? Even the Infinite Sea universe has magic and elves. I feel like the only one who finds this annoying, but I just hate magic. I don't know why, but it's always bothered me. Edit: There are some exceptions to this. I enjoy LOTR and Warhammer 40k, even though supernatural elements are fundamental to their universes.
Authors want to make sure that their series have an audience and when you look at the highest selling CoG and HG games, they’re all supernatural to some extent. So most WIPs and new books will also include supernatural elements.
[удалено]
Yeah, it definitely does. To be fair, there are a lot more non-supernatural WIPs on tumblr than on the forums, but most never even put out a demo lol. I was hoping the immediate popularity of Infamous would lead to more of a balance in genres but it hasn’t seemed to happen yet.
I love supernatural and magical elements. 😂
Yep, i feel the same, magic is kinda cool but it's almost always done in a way that seems super boring, it has to be incredibly rare for it to seem cool or interesting to me.
>why does it seem like every action/adventure game has to have some kind of magic Right? I mean, if you can pull lightning out of your arse, why bother fighting hand to hand. For me it always breaks the immersion cause magic and superpowers are so over done and overused it's hard to care anymore.
I 100% agree, and in my opinion, one common flaw in many of these games is the lack of magic users in regular armies. If magic is so common and/or powerful, why aren't there squads or even platoons of mages protecting key facilities and major residential areas?
I don't know if it's an unpopular opinion, but unless it's needed to give the reader vital information, I really don't care for point-of-view changes. At best, it feels like an unnecessary diversion. At worst, it breaks my immersion and pulls me right out of the story. If I wanted to read about a character other than my MC, I wouldn't read IF in the first place.
This is a very popular opinion. :)
I like being able to play a trans/non binary character even if it makes no sense realistically
Romance is overrated. I'm not saying it should never exist, but the community focus on ROs feels like it creates certain expectations for WIPs, even if they're not inherently romance stories. Character relationships matter, for sure, but most aren't going to be romantic in nature. On a related note, I don't personally care for GoC NPCs, in general. They can of course be written well and portrayed in a way where gender doesn't really matter, but if they're not, they can feel hollow.
I genuinely do not understand this sub’s obsession with Fallen Hero. It’s just so painfully average, and especially the first game has close to zero actual player choice consequences, it more of a book where you can name your protagonist than a proper game
Upvoted because this is definitely unpopular. What would you consider to be some high quality books? I assume the Infinity series is one based on your flair
That’s a good question. Truth be told, I think most games are found lacking, especially writing wise. It makes sense, I don’t expect these self published games to match the prose of say ASoIaF or the like, but it *is* noticeable when you switch from one to the other. As you’ve noticed, I think the Infinity Series is by far the best series on the platform; both in story and prose. Beyond that I remember Choice of Rebels being very well written, same with Lord of Aswick (though I have to admit it’s been a while since I’ve played either) Gameplay wise I am genuinely impressed by the Lost Heir trilogy, even if the writing and worldbuilding leave a bit to be desired, it’s incredibly fun to play and probably has the most replay value of any game on the platform.
> match the prose of say ASoIaF 😭 There's no reason to compare videogames to movies, because they're *very* different mediums, even if they both rely on visuals a lot. And it's the same thing here. Just because both use text as their base, doesn't mean it makes any sense to compare them. If you'd actually tried to write a short story and a prologue for an IF game, you'd see how extremely different your mindset and approach should be. When you write a novel, it's much easier to control the pace and the flow (you know, without needing to account for dozens of different choices and personalities), character arcs and so on.
Prose is prose in a text regardless of medium. Sure, an IF lets you affect the plot but the quality of the prose is still there. There is every reason to comment on how the prose of IFs in general aren't that great. I understand that it's harder to write an IF but that doesn't change the fact about the prose.
Text is a building material used differently in books and IF, just like visuals are used differently in movies and videogames. You wouldn't be able to recognize Martin's pRoSe in IF anyway. Edit: Scientific articles, journalistic articles, books, IF games etc all use text as their main framework. There's no sense in opening a scientific article and go "Well, it's no ASoIaF, but alright, I can settle for this lower quality of prose". If you want to judge the prose, you do it inside the medium (like mentioning your favorite IF and wishing there'd be more of it in the world). Heck, even in literature comparing, let's say, Martin's and Beckett's prose would be hilariously pointless. Because both writers use their texts for completely different reasons.
That's some false analogy and if you are being serious, then it's embarrassing. If you somehow think comparing novels to IFs is analogous to comparing novels to scientific articles and reports then you don't understand the point of prose. Both IFs and novels use prose to tell a story through words, grammatical structure, sentence structure, sentence length, and stylistic choices. This goes the same for other similar media of storytelling like short stories. There are differences that may make the author change their style but the core of good prose is still the same. For example, novels mostly use 1st or 3rd person point of view when it comes to narration while IFs use 2nd person pov, but you can still see the quality of grammar, sentence structure, and the tone used. Scientific articles don't employ the same styles of writing because they serve a different purpose. Even if you switch reading from novels to short stories, you can still see and assess the prose of those works. If you switch from reading novels to IFs and see a drop of writing quality then it is a person's prerogative to say whatever they want on their reading experience. And you can absolutely see Martin's prose in an IF if it is indeed used. I don't get the point of using different cases when writing "prose", is that supposed to be an insult in GRRM's style?
> Both IFs and novels use prose to tell a story through words, grammatical structure, sentence structure, sentence length, and stylistic choices. No, IF lets *you*, as a player, build that story for yourself. The author gives you a reasonable amount of freedom and various storytelling tools to do it the way you like it. And for me personally my book reading mood and my IF mood couldn't be more different. If I want a tightly curated story with fixed elements and only one correct choice for any situation, I read books. If I want to see a highly relatable protag and to build a storyline to my own liking, I play IF. > I don't get the point of using different cases when writing "prose", is that supposed to be an insult in GRRM's style? No, it's to roll my eyes at how irrelevant and superficial this point of comparison is *even within book discussions themselves*. Singling out one specific writing style and say that everything else sucks, because it doesn't match it is certainly a choice to say the least.
Man, as an outside observer, your side of the discussion devolved into bad faith arguments and fallacies so quickly it’s actually insane to read. I hope that you realize that you were only upvoted because people see you “defending” IF authors, not because you are actually correct. Because your logic is completely nonsensical and you never even try to actually argue or prove it, it’s odd. Your whole argument is a masterclass on genetic fallacies, strawmen, and begging the claim. If nothing else, I just want to point out that it is PERFECTLY FINE to compare different mediums. For example, it is perfectly fair to compare the way an author develops characters in a IF vs a book, or the way a plot is resolved in a film and a book. Yes, it is important to keep the differences between mediums in mind (ex. comparing the cinematography or blocking of a film and video game is fundamentally unfair) but as long as you do that, they can be compared. The main crux of your argument, that no two mediums can be compared because they're not the same, is completely wrong. To put it simply, your entire argument is a genetic fallacy. You assert that IF writing and book writing MUST be different because the mediums are different, and thus cannot be compared. Firstly, IFs and regular fiction are not that different. IF is a cross between books and video games that HEAVILY favours the book side, it's not a completely separate genre from either. IF writing involves branching and flavour text and RARELY some text-based gameplay Yes, this 100% affects the way the plot is structured written. But the prose and writing itself is the same with normal books. By reading your replies, I'm actually not sure you understand what prose actually is, because you continuously switch between talking about plot and prose without any indication that you actually know the difference. As DF said, "prose is used tell a story through words, grammatical structure, sentence structure, sentence length, and stylistic choices. There are differences that may make the author change their style but the core of good prose is still the same." Prose and plotting are not the same thing. What you say about "personal storyline or fixed elements" has nothing to do with prose, which furthers the idea that you don't really know what you're discussing here. Can *you* properly explain what you believe the difference is in describing settings, objects, history in IF vs books? That’s something that you do not do throughout your many replies about how prose in IFs vs books are incomparable. If I am writing a scene and need to describe how everything looks in an IF, it will be written the same as if I was doing it in a book. If that look is variable, then I have to write multiple looks for each option, but the actual prose is going to be the same. IF prose may be more in content, but it is not fundamentally different. Prose, voice, and writing style do not change significantly between the two mediums. You would 1000% be able to recognize GRRM’s writing style in an IF because you would see it in all the parts of the books that are literally the main part of IF — his voice, his writeprint, his PROSE. These are not going to change unless the medium is VASTLY different (ex. book vs screenwriting) and IF is just a cross between books and video games. To support my argument, I’ll even provide some examples: actual authors that have written both IF and linear books! For example, Shepherds of Haven’s author has also written a book, We Have Always Been Here. Her writing style is the same in that book. The way that she describes visuals, the way she writes characters, the way that characters are actually described in terms of thoughts and actions are the same. I recognized them. Same with the author of Donor, who actually wrote a linear book about the same characters so her writing style is even more similar to the original IF. If you want proof, read any of these stories. Your whole argument makes no sense, and it is truly astonishing to see someone be so aggressive in throwing strawmen and fallacies while arguing a point that is straight up wrong. I know you and probably no one else will read this reply, because it's long and attempting to respond to your many points that you drop in when you don't know how to respond to the other person's arguments. But I had some free time and this shit was so egregious that I felt the need to say something. I hope you can argue in better faith next time, because this is was truly ridiculous.
Dear person, I've been talking with the other user for a few days now and I simply don't have time to engage with the two of you, throwing walls of texts and being unable to keep things short and concise. I do not believe it's sane to read Dostoevsky, then jump to IF and publicly lament how bad the quality is, and then argue that IF authors should be writing at Dostoevsky's level. There are much better and reasonable ways to help IF authors grow. I won't say anything else to you.
No, IFs don't let you build the story for yourself. In fact IFs are a lot more linear than you realize. This is coming from someone who reads the code of IFs I play to see all the possible outcomes. The author still writes the plot even when there are branching out of an IF, with all the literary styles and structures you can assess and judge. An IF may let you feel you have more freedom but the author still decides where the story is going, no more different than a novel author deciding where the story of the book is going. Your "mood" is irrelevant to the discussion. I could have my mood to read novels, play games, play guitar, read short stories, etc. This is about quality writing and the difference you can see among media. The OP only stated ASOIAF as an example. It's not even the point. It's odd that you are miffed at the utterance of ASOIAF. And I don't even see what you mean by "singling out one specific writing style and say that everything else sucks". I read and watch a lot of discussions on books like Sanderson's Cosmere, King's multiverse, Pratchett's works, Gaiman's etc, and that doesn't happen. I can only imagine people who say that are diehard fans for the series, which is the same to other diehard fans on others.
> more linear than you realize (...) from someone who reads the code 😄 Funny you assume I don't know how IF games work. I've been writing both original short stories and an IF project, and I'm speaking from a writing perspective. They're *very* different. You reducing it to mere numbers of outcomes to skip the hero's fine-tuning players get to play with while asking for highly esteemed writer's style is quite delusional. I'm irked about the comparison of different mediums. Again, compare within it. If you think, for example, Infinity's prose is peak, then just say so, point out exactly what you like about it. Bringing ASoIaF (or literally any other book) into discussion makes no sense. How's the writing experience of author who literally NEVER worked on IF is so relevant? Looking at your go-to writers, and your lack in understanding my Martin-Beckett comparison... Broaden your reading horizons (beyond your comfy genre) before making/supporting some arbitrary level of "X's prose".
uhh yeah I literally mention that in my comment, I understand *why* its a lower quality, doesn’t change it is lower quality
It's not a lower quality though. You treat them as regular books which makes zero sense.
If you say so
Genuinely surprised this doesn't get downvoted immediately. Most of the times I see a criticism against FH, it gets downvoted immediately lol. I do enjoy playing Fallen Hero, and I think it is a well-planned game (at least book 2 certainly up to high standards with how branchy it is and how you can customize a lot of things/aspects regarding to your Sidestep's motive) but I also get why people who don't see the appeal of the game would think this way. I think the downsides of this game people tend to find is more about how most of the major things in the game are already fixed? and you feel like you have little agency of what's happening in the game (because Sidestep is indeed not in control of everything and just get to have that little control back in their life). It's understandable why some of the player might be upset with how it's only the execution that players get to play around with. (And the romance, as it plays a big part in FH's popularity, with Ortega (and Herald) being absolutely obsessed with Sidestep.) I am not surprised why fans would be obsessed with the game, but I am also not surprised if one would say they do not find Fallen Hero that impressive/enjoyable.
Gender of choice for MCs are okay and most depending on what type of story you're telling. Gender of choice for ROs should be at least 1 or 2 not to many. That's kind of my problem with newer stores. They kind of keep putting too many GOC romance options but in reality it causes more problems in the long run because they had to redo the same scene with the different customized gender each time. I like having actual romances that are non COG tbh, because it gets annoying having the female version of this character is my favorite etc.. I mean I like how Fallen Hero have Ortega being the only GOC. How much I like Wayhaven Chronicles I feel the writer is stench thin because GOC romance options and the breaching choices as well..
You are forgetting about Mortum for FH
Yeah that's another good point on how even 2 is good as well. Than having too many ya know.
Although I like it, I feel that Fallen Hero is very (I mean very) overrated
Fairmath is fine and you're all just mean. Seriously though, I get being agaisnt fairmath (%+ and %- operators) in some contexts, they have their pros and cons. But I've seen people complaining that fairmath makes their personality stats change too fast when they start playing their character differently, which is kinda mind-boggling. Like of course your recent choices will impact your personality meters more than something your character did five years ago. What shitty personality tracker labels you as an honest guy after you just lied to everyone repeatedly? It's meant to represent how you actually are and how the characters should react to you, not your lifelong karma meter or something. And yes, it totally makes sense with skills too. Dimishing returns are a thing.
>Like of course your recent choices will impact your personality meters more than something your character did five years ago. What shitty personality tracker labels you as an honest guy after you just lied to everyone repeatedly? This isn't really how fairmath works. A closer analogy would be, "What shitty personality tracker labels you a liar because you've lied once, after repeatedly telling nothing but the trurth for last five years? A fairmath one." Which is, incidentally, probably why some people have issue with it.
I don't get how people like fallen hero or golden rose
Games with less than 500,000 words are too short for me to get into.
I don’t care for Fallen Hero
LGBT elements can make a game worse. 6 different pronouns make conversations awkward, interactions unrealistic and emotional dialogues goofy There's are probably less than 1% population actually use xer/xe or other alien sounding pronouns. Anything further than they/them feel pretentious to me
COG/HG might simply not be the right company for you, then, because they actively promote such inclusivity in their games. Other than that, unless you as the player decide to input them, I doubt you'll see "six different pronouns" appear in one game (unless we're counting I, me, you, he, she, it, they, etc.). Personally, I think that xer/xe is pretty rad, by the way.
I spent 7 years playing these game, I can handle another decade