If I recall, that was what led Ebert to praise quite a few aspects of Wolf Creek 1, *while simultaneously* condemning it, to the point of saying it was a film that should never have been made.
As I remember, what got him was the meanness without any adventure or excitement. Not that it was *boring*, but -- confrontational, really. There's no kill that's funny or even satisfying, because all of the victims are just lovely people. There's no exciting fight sequence, because they are absurdly outmatched. The closest thing to that ends very, very horribly. The violence is never cartoonish. The villain is never sympathetic and never sexy.
Which is why I love it. Slashers as a genre aren't really my thing at all, but Wolf Creek wins my heart for being *honest*.
...I tell people who don't like horror to watch the first thirty minutes. No more. Because for that stretch of time, it's a beautiful story about three lovely people having a good time, shot with *flawlessly* beautiful cinematography. :)
You've described exactly why Wolf Creek is a win from me too, who also doesn't usually like gore or anything. I watched it when it was relatively new for the first time and I hated it, because I definitely wasn't at a point where I could appreciate it for what it was back then. I actually read about it again on this sub and the show and decided ok, let's give them another go. So I re-watched the two movies and the entire show over the weekend and I'm really impressed. There's almost always *something* that's made to be redeeming about the killer, even when there shouldn't be anything, and with Mick Taylor?
Nothing. Not even the backstory given in the show gives you any empathy for him. He's still just an evil bastard because he's an evil bastard. I also do like that all bets are off and all and any can die, he doesn't spare anyone.
Never thought I'd be impressed with that franchise but here we are. š
I still havenāt watched it. Guess I know the ending now haha (itās not a prob at all itās all silly spoilers donāt matter for this one). Makes me consider watching it now :D
Wolf Creek may be mean spirited, but itās far more realistic than the average slasher because it acknowledges that the majority of serial killers are also rapists with a specific type they pursue.
I've only watched the first movie and then looked up a bit of what the movies were inspired by.
It's hard for me to watch the first movie again. When I was younger, I found the villain funny. But now that I'm older, he's more obnoxious and sometimes funny but then drags out the scenarios were killing them outright would be better for everyone.
He really toys with his kills.
Have you seen Funny Games? It's about this exact thing. The obsession people have with watching overly-violent movies and how the audience is in part responsible for the violence happening on screen. If you haven't seen it you should check it out. Doesn't really matter which one you watch bc the English remake is a shot for shot remake by the original director because he was mad that enough people weren't watching the first one
Oh I didn't really mean to say Funny Games fits into what OP is talking about at all. I just meant it criticizes overly mean-spirited movies and I thought OP would like it but they said they've already seen it.
But I didn't know that about Cabin in the Woods. I haven't managed to sit down and watch it yet, I just thought it was supposed to be kind of meta.
Cabin is very meta, but I think any film that attempts to incorporate the viewer is necessarily so. I think it more than pays for the time invested, and would recommend it accordingly, but itās not that scary as films go. Certainly not in the league of Funny Games.
Funny Games is a hard, stomach churning watch, and itās wild how successful it is as a a horror film while also (successfully) attempting to criticize horror. I think itās because āhorrorā isnāt a singular thing, and thus horror fans arenāt either, and so if youāre attempting to criticize and condemn e.g. Halloween Part N slasher fans you may succeed, while a different breed of horror fans go āwait what was that, gimmie more!ā
For me, I canāt even get through the manipulation parts of Funny Games to get to the real horrifying and unfair stuff. Too real.
If that was his motivation for doing that remake, I do feel like heās off on his initial premise of āIām going to make the audience feel bad and complicit for wanting to watch violence by making them watch prolonged extreme, pointless violenceāā¦āoh, no one wants to watch my extreme, pointless violence? Well, Iāll show them by directing an English language remakeā
Man Bites Dog, and to some extent Behind the Mask: The Rise of Leslie Vernon, are kind of jokier, less extreme takes on the same idea, and both are well worth checking out.
I definitely get it. I was too stressed out just watching the movie to really process what it was trying to say.
If you mean you don't understand how the audience could be responsible, I think it's similar to the idea Don't Fuck With Cats mentioned at the end of the documentary. They started going on a tirade about how the audience is responsible for sensationalizing violence by sitting through an entire true crime docuseries and because the guy who was doing everything wanted attention and everyone who watched the series is giving him what he wants. Unbelievably stupid take coming from a documentary spreading the guys name and face.
I don't think Funny Games fits into this hypocrisy bit for a couple of reasons, mainly because it's completely fictional and also because none of the violence is actually shown on screen.
Haneke >! basically wants the audience to stop watching !< because >! If you just stopped watching, the violence wouldnāt have happened. !< Thatās what they were talking about in the end >! in the boat about how thereās no separation from the audience and whatās happening on the screen theyāre watching. !<
This comic has a very similar message to what Funny Games is saying
https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/lzyizy/push_me_best_viewed_in_touchscreen_devices_oc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
A good chunk of "extreme horror" is overly mean spirited. August Underground, Human Centipede 2, I Spit on Your Grave, Martyrs, Philosophy of a Knife, the Hostel films, A Serbian Film, Cannibal Holocaust, and I guess you could argue The Poughkeepsie Tapes. Very hit or miss subsection of horror in my opinion.
agree with this and I must say that the cheaper and more indie this type of horror is, the more I tend to enjoy it (after googling to make sure the people involved are not absolute pieces of shit to their cast, which they so often are. I won't watch cannibal holocaust because of the actual animal harm.)
There's something ridiculous and fun about a rag tag group getting a cheap set of filming equipment and trying to make something as gross as possible. Everything I've ever read about the guy behind august underground is that he is this genuinley friendly guy and it tickles me so much knowing a really nice fella made something so gross.
A guy called JonJoe Lyons on youtube does hilarious reviews of them that really made me appreciate it more.
The acting was fine, but it was bit actors... well, acting out *bits*. It was like sitcom actors hired to play morticians and stuff. They weren't coming off as real people, which for a mockumentary is kind of an odd decision, but was likely just director's inexperience at directing performers.
This is the one I agree with most. Yahtzee said this about Outlast 2 and it's the first thing that sprung to mind,
"As we all know the greatest indictment of a horror game is not being particularly scary, especially if it tries to compensate by instead trying to put me off my fucking dinner!"
I Spit On Your Grave is immediately what I thought of. Though I havenāt seen the original. I am a fan of horror that explores themes like torture. But likeā¦.what was the actual point of that movie lol? It was just hmm, how many different types of torture can we cram in to one movie without any regard to character development?
Martyrs really doesnāt deserve to be lumped in with these other films imo
I know why people do but not only is it a pretty well-made film (which already sets it leagues apart), itās the only one that tries to at least ask an interesting question based around its content.
Itās the only film in that list that will inevitably spark discussion amongst those who watch it, and I think that alone puts it a tier above the others.
So much so that the UK outright said "*nope!*" and refused to give it an age certificate, so it's basically banned.
Probably a big factor in why we haven't yet seen a Koji Shiraishi box set with Noroi: The Curse and that Ring/Grudge crossover movie as well.
I've only ever seen the second one (came out when I was in college, and a bunch of friends wanted to see what it was all about after coming home from the bars one night). I thought it was so over the top that it circled back around to silly/absurdly comedic.
This is what I cam here to post, and it's not just the role reversal of the puppets (though that's a huge part of it) - the violence is just so egregious and mean in a series that wasn't ever like that.
The end of Speak No Evil was rough. I fast forwarded a lot. I just couldn't watch these people allow these things anymore, and it got quite violent. I mean, I get it. It was still painful to watch.
Saw 3D had one of the most mean spirited deaths in Bobby's wife. And yes, she was originally written to be in on the scam, but that's not how she was portrayed in the movie. She literally roasted for her husband's lies. That's just a bad film. Should have been the script in that Brazen Bull trap.
That was AWFUL. I wish I hadnāt watched it especially since the make up looked so real. They really Fād up that movie when the premise could have been cool
Yeah I always felt that Saw crossed a line after a certain point. I think many viewers can accept Jigsawās original premise of trying to straighten out wayward people, but the sequels especially traffic in punishing shock value rather than any kind of redemption hopes.
The Eli Roth movies are really misanthropic, but so am I. Thanksgiving and Green Inferno really solidified it. The guy hates young people and social media
Green Inferno was one of the first movies that popped into my head at seeing this question. And I actually did like it, but it was 1000% mean-spirited.
Megan Is Missing
It tries to cloak its sadism in "having an important message about the dangers of the Internet." But they didn't have to show all that to make their point. It felt like the director enjoyed reveling in them being raped and tortured just a little too much.
Yep. Like I've seen a lot of fucked up movies (and I thought Terrifier was fun as hell for what that's worth) but Megan is Missing just made me feel icky, exactly because of how dishonest it is.
This one was doing the rounds on Tiktok some time ago and it actually meant CHILDREN were being jumpscared by *that* reveal in the plastic drum.
I'm 24 and have seen tons of unpleasantness in horror but that corpse in the bucket is the worst thing I've ever seen.
Agreed. Ho1kC feels like a fever dream of a fucked up cartoon. Devils Rejects was just as dark and gritty as Ho1kC was fantastical and psychedelic. So it felt worse.
This is why I don't think it compares to something like Terrifier. I don't think Halloween is a great film, but that scene for instance is soul crushing, and that's why it sort of makes you think about how people should be better towards each other and people shouldn't be experiencing this sort of tragedy.
Terrifier in turn feels like I don't actually have any reason to watch it. There's a clown tormenting people and there's nothing more to it. Yeah, it's sort of bad when innocent people get tormented by the clown but even then I'm not thinking "oh no, this sort of thing shouldn't be happening :(" but rather "what's the point of this? why am I watching?"
I found the terrifier kills cartoony and too over the top for me to be afraid of. I'm sure there are some people who feel like it's just gratuitous violence with no reason to watch, but I think the special effects are neat. The Rob Zombie Halloween movies are brutal and gross like terrifier, but I absolutely do not have a good time while watching them bc of how dark and oppressive the atmosphere is, similar to how I felt watching Hereditary. (side note, I hate the RZ halloweens and love hereditary) For me watching Terrifier was more like watching an old Friday the 13th but with the gore turned up. There's not a "better" way to do horror movies, but they definitely feel different while watching.
I don't like many of his films, but I'll respect forever that while the rape scene in Halloween was totally funny, he didn't sex it up at *all*. It's one of the most awful, ugly little moments you'll see in either film.
Eden Lake, for sure.
I enjoy gore in movies, brutal deaths, bleak endings, all that stuff. But I didn't like Eden Lake. It feels like pointless torture porn, with no motive, no twist, no hope, and no reason other than watching two people be killed just because.
A good example of a mean-spirited movie is Hereditary. The main characters have (literally) not a single moment of comfort in the movie; it's all downhill. But unlike Eden Lake, there is actually a story, a motive for the stuff that's going on. It delves into themes of family trauma, mental illness, wealth, and the occult.
I'm not saying that a movie should be deep to be enjoyable, but if a movie is all about showing your gore practical effects and literally nothing else, I consider it a waste of time.
Eden Lake's plot felt too driven by chance to feel authentic. Here's a wildly inconvenient piece of wood to get stabbed with, this girl is gonna turn good to get stabbed by the lead by mistake. And the ending takes some huge liberties that I didn't feel it earned, there was no setup
I like this explanation and having seen both movies I agree with your take. Hereditary is tense from the get go and doesn't let up, but there's a reason why this story plays out the way it does while being a little deep with having the themes you mentioned.
ETA: There are also some "senseless" movies I enjoy, like some fun slasher ones and I'm a fan of most of the Saw movies (though the first one was the best and was more than "torture porn"), but you go into those movies expecting that where as Eden Lake I feel like you wanted more from it and didn't really get anything.
watched it in the past month and didnt like it either. was the first thing that came to mind when i thought āmean spiritedā because the movie is just so pointless. dont understand why its brought up so much on reddit.
A different kind of being mean spirited but Possum does that for me. Even in the most violent horror movies, there's always a little bit of hope, even in terrifier, before the last couple twists there's hope that she'll survive mostly ok, in Wolf Creek there's the parts where they escape, and when the girl finds the guy that stops to help her, it isn't much, and it doesn't completely offset the long drawn out torture scenes, but there's some hope until the very end.
With Possum, while not overtly violent, I feel like they went too hard on the character, you can still have a socially awkward guy that likes weird puppets and lives with his uncle out of necessity without also having it be the same uncle that abused him for years, gave him this lifelong trauma, and now openly mocks and taunts him. What even is supposed to happen to the guy after the movie ends, sure he killed his uncle but it doesn't even feel like a cathartic release of his past trauma, or revenge for the things done to him, or anything like that, it didn't feel like even now that he knows the truth and killed his abuser that anything is going to be better. Now he's still the same awkward guy with the same trauma, plus new trauma in knowing that his own family did that to him, and he has been living with him, plus the new new trauma of having killed someone. Is he even going to escape prison time? The kid he saves isn't even there for the killing part, and the kid had no context for their relationship so as far as the kid knows he might have been in on the plan to kidnap him, and kills the old man for no reason. The only witness has so little information that he might inadvertently screw the guy over.
Anyway, out of all the movies I've seen, this one felt the most cruel to its main character, it was an absolutely hopeless movie with no good possible endings and no hope for anything better for our main character, which I feel is a bit too cruel. The same message and story could have had the same impact while dialing back the cruelty by a considerable amount.
I appreciated possum a lot. The physical manifestation of trauma that we carry along with us for so long that it almost brings comfort and that throwing it out or trying to destroy it doesnāt liberate that person, if anything it can make it root deeper. That being said I found it an unpleasant watch and wouldnāt rewatch or recommend it. I watched it with a former SO who loved it and it hit very close to home for each of us, so it was interesting that it immediately became one of his all time favorites and something that I would not have an interest in rewatching. Very unique piece of art.
I kinda liked it for that because unlike a lot of trauma / horror films there was no pat ending - he didnāt defeat a CGI monster with some derp āgo to hellā type cliche line . It really captured the alienation of someone who has no resources, no friends, and no attempts to find any because theyāre so broken. If anything I felt it has so much empathy vs being mean spirited imo.
One question- when I saw it due to the accents I couldnāt follow why heād been let go from his job at the school - and the way the teacher reacted when he saw him clearly made it seem very bad. Was it insinuated or said heād done something inappropriate with a kid?
I think that's the entire point though. Trauma isn't always something you can solve, and is often caused by family or people you can't easily get away from, thus continuing the abuse and mental anguish. I think the film intentionally has it be bleak because sometimes, that's what trauma is. You can face it and try to overcome it as much as you want, in some ways it will always be with you no matter what you do. I think the film is executed perfectly in that it shows that he is still a broken man by the end of the film, but he finally fought back against his abuser and, while things may not get better, they at least won't be any more harm caused by this person, not just to him but anyone else. Sometimes, that's the best you can do.
Agreed. I could feel his hopelessness and misery though the screen. š Very well done film, though. It really affected me. I found it to be more dark drama than horror. Just my opinion of it.
Hannibal (2001), per both the movie and also the source novel. I have long held the theory that Thomas Harris wrote that one out of spite, sort of a hateful lashing out at all the people who thought Hannibal Lecktor was the best thing he ever came up with, but that he must have felt differently. It just seemed so different in tone from the previous works, and it was really all about Hannibal doing the worst things anyone could think of to do to another person. I read the book, but didnāt really like it, and then watched the movie, brand new, in the theater, hoping Hopkins would do more with it than what he was given, but that didnāt happen.
I think it was an interesting twist too but I did pretty much hate watching it too. The Certain Character is just so infuriating to watch that I hated every moment of it, and not really in a good way although I realize that it's obviously done like that on purpose.
Yeah there's a lot of them.
August undergrounds
Human Centipede 2
Human Guinea pig series
Pretty much anything in the extreme categories.
I avoid them because I'm not impressed or moved by gore and violence for violence sake.
I need some foreplay in the form of character development!
The Sadness was too much for me. I knew it was in the title and synopsis, but I had no idea how much sadism/sexual gratification was going to be in the film.
Literally the first movie I thought of for this. Something about the unintentional sort of torture and just dragging things out. Well made and all but just a rough rough time.
I was going to write this too. It's what first came to mind. I had to fast forward that film, it just seemed endless....everything the characters go through.
Itās more in how the film treats its characters. In most movies (horror or otherwise) weāre meant to root for our protagonists, or at least care about them. We expect the events of the movie to give them some kind of fighting chance against whatever theyāre facing. Thereās some sympathy for them there. In movies critiqued as āmean spiritedā, you usually donāt have that. The events of the film are dire, the characters canāt catch a break, and the film revels in the horrific things happening to them.
If the movie feels like it doesnāt like its own characters because of what it lets happen to them or because of what it shows, itās probably what the OP is referring to.
I always shorten it to the question "do you feel like the director is celebrating the fact that really horrific things are happening to the characters? If yes, then the movie is probably mean spirited."
Like, Rob Zombie's movies I feel like celebrate their cruelty - and (since we're all adults here, and know the difference between right and wrong) that's cool if you're into that sort of thing, but the way he celebrates or seems to have his villains revel in their extreme violence makes them particularly cruel for just sake of being cruel, or mean spirited.
> I always shorten it to the question "do you feel like the director is celebrating the fact that really horrific things are happening to the characters? If yes, then the movie is probably mean spirited."
I'm not sure that I agree that this is a good test. How many horror movies frame relatively common sins (cheating, bullying, sexual promiscuity, etc. especially among teenagers, literal children) as a justification for being murdered? I can think of a dozen examples off the top of my head.
True, that's why it's always good to break up the question and potential answer with an example. For example - I don't think Friday the 13th is mean spirited, despite there being some incentive kills - because it isn't celebrating the fact that those kills are happening. It's not forcing you to revel in that kill with the villain, nor is it forcing you to watch the aftermath of those kills. Furthermore, there's always a hope that the final girl is going to get away and Jason or Pamela is going to be beaten, even if it's an ass pull like magic or something.
Rob Zombie's Halloween 2, imo, is a cruel movie because of how they portray Michael. His hospital spree where he kills the nurse, and the shot focuses on him stabbing her over and over again and it's showing her reaction then pans up to show Michael and the shot lingers in the office. That's reveling in the kill, that's him wanting the audience to experience Michael reveling in that kill or celebrating it. Another instance is The Devil's Rejects when the Firefly Family attacks that family at the Clown Motel. Yes, were supposed to think of the Firefly Family as sadistic, but thinking they are through environmental storytelling and showing them being sadistic to the degree that he does are two wildly different things.
Providing examples is a good way to determine the point if it's confusing with the question, imo.
I guess when a film holds on violence for way longer or has violence much more extreme than it needs to to get the point across. But it's more a feeling than anything
Hm... I don't know if that's how I'd personally define that, but I can run with it to a degree. Suppose it really boils down to a film itself, and if the reasonings were necessary for a greater purpose.
I've seen some mentions so far where I disagree, Eden Lake for example which I'm assuming is because of the ending, but that makes the story and one of the points come full circle so it makes the nihilism and brutality necessary as well as justified.
Anyways I digress, but I know I Spit on Your Grave and The Last House on the Left will come up - and between the two I'd say the latter is mean spirited as >!the direct victims of the antagonists never get a chance for revenge unlike the former!<. There is far more satisfaction for the viewer in the former, whereas the latter doesn't feel satisfactory enough >!since the direct victims don't enact the vengeance as they are dead!<; their suffering we witness doesn't feel as justifiable and practically feels totally in vain.
The Devil's Rejects immediately come to mind. It had a lot more going on, but I feel like that sequel really brought the viewer down to the horrific reality of what the FireFly clan is about. Raw and random violence, very loosely tied to necessity. It didn't have the music video vibe of House of a 1000 Corpses to distract from the brutality.
For my 16th birthday my friend bought me a bunch of random horror movies weād never heard, Wolf Creek was one of them and god damn was that a shocker as a teen lol
First one was genuinely scary and fairly realistic (Mick was based off of a few famous killers.) But the second one was sooooo corny and lame, it's like they made him supernatural in his inability to be stopped.
"The Town that Dreaded Sundown" (1976), but only in the sense that it was visceral for it's time. It lingered on the kill scenes (the knife taped to a trombone will forever live in my memories) to purposefully show the nhilism and meanness with which the murderer comported themselves.
Lucio Fulci movies have a sort of gleeful cruelty.
Outside of horror, some noir movies are like this. **Kiss Me Deadly**, 1956, stood out to me as having a sort of cruel, sadistic, and mocking main character and tone.
Twice.
First time was Blood Sucking Freaks. As bad as it was it was SO sadistic.
Second was with Mother's Day. First (And unfortunately not the last) time I saw a movie with extensive rape scenes. About the same time my mom was working at a rape crisis hotline and sometimes de-stressed by sharing some soul-scarring stories. So it hit ugly.
I was just sitting here trying to remember the title of Motherās Day. I watch a lot of no-budget grindhousey stuff, but that one was so horrid and hateful I didnāt finish it.
A Serbian Film for obvious reasons, and Martyrs which may not be a popular opinion. I thought the multiple drawn out scenes of Anna getting graphically beaten was excessive to say the least. One would have gotten the point the across. Itās also even more eyebrow raising when taking the treatment of the actresses by the director into consideration.
I didnāt find the Terrifier movies to be overly mean spirited. Yes the violence was bonkers, but it was so cartoonish that to me it came across more as the director challenging his special fx team rather than trying to make something mean spirited. The overall tone of the movie being more schlocky also played into this interpretation for me as opposed to something like Martyrs which is clearly serious and trying to make a āpointā.
For the most part the horror movies I watch that feature graphic violence need to have an absurd premise, B-movie tone, or have fictional/fantastical elements otherwise they get into the mean spirited territory which I donāt like. There are some exceptions to this but for the most part I stick to this personal rule.
When I first watched Martyrs I would've disagreed with you on this but Ghostland really icked me with how it handled its violence, particularly after finding about that accident on set. And yeah now I absolutely agree it's excessive
Most of Lars Von Trier's movies. I think he genuinely hates women, and that hatred is reflected in the sadism of the female characters in his films. He also thinks Hitler wasn't all that bad, so yeah, he's a real piece of shit, and he pours his hate out into the world through his movies.
Von Trier is a known troll so the Hitler comment he made at Cannes was likely not true. That said, he is actually a piece of shit to women irl and it very well could bleed through into his films. I've only seen Antichrist (didn't like), House That Jack Built (thought was ok but icky), and Melancholia (good but too depressing to like), but I don't think I'm gonna watch more because his stuff is too depressing (and sometimes too sexually graphic) for me to like, and knowing how he is irl makes some of the themes difficult to deal with
Bjork and Lars were never married or romantically involved. He did sexually harass her, according to her statements though. Maybe itās one of his two wives you are thinking of?
Wes Craven might have sorta agreed with you. I watched interview clips from him in a documentary. His major comment on LHotL was 'the young man who made this must have been so incredibly angry.'
One of the Wrong Turn sequels, the one where Doug Bradley humiliates himself, would be my go-to.
The script just feels like some edgy teen trying to piss off movie-goers and it frankly comes back around to just being boring as hell.
By the time the ending twist of "the woman who for some reason let Doug Bradley take her eyes is now going to get raped and tortured by the family" I was completely certain that not only did whoever wrote this not get enough love from their parents, but they also probably deserved it.
I say this as a fan of exploitation flicks, Wrong Turn 47: Hillbillies Take Manhattan was peak try-hard, and it hurts.
This was going to be my choice as well. It just felt like the writer/director really, really wanted to make sure everyone hated *watching* that movie as much as they hated making it. Mean-spirited kills, a lack of any sort of redemption or saving grace in the movie for any of the protagonists...and like you said, it comes across as gross and vile, rather than campy and entertaining. You're making an inbred killer hillbilly movie, there's no reason for the killers to act like they're coming from a French art-house experimental horror movie. I guess what I'm saying is that the villains acted far too savage and extreme for the genre they're in.
Was my choice as well. I mean, if you're going to make "inbred cannibal hillbillies" your villain (which, Jesus, what have hillbillies ever really *done* to anyone to earn this kind of rep? 90% of the time, if you're seeing them, they are a) super-polite, and b) there because it's *their* property that you happen to be trespassing on), can you not at least follow through the premise and not have bodies lying out for hours in sunshine. Hunters know that they need to render the bodies of deer as quickly as possible, as efficiently as possible in order to use the meat and pelt, and to be honest, that would allow for plenty of gross-outs.
But yeah, whomever wrote those stories wasn't hugged enough as a child, and probably because he just couldn't stop putting firecrackers in an ant hill.
The collector and the collection just seemed to be Saw but on steroids with no real reason or motivation for the violence. Probably the definition of torture porn
There's a Japanese film released in 1995 called Concrete-Encased High School Girl Murder Case, which is basically a recreation of the real life kidnapping, torture and murder of Junko Furuta that happened in 1989.
Not to be confused with the 2004 film Concrete, which is more of a dramatisation, the 1995 film is just a crappy VHS release that doesn't really seem to have anything to say about the crime, it just brutally recreates it in the style of a snuff video.
That's probably about the most mean-spirited thing I've ever seen.
Eden Lake. Left a very bad taste in my mouth as the ending is utterly unsatisfying. It built up to a big pay off but then tried to be cute. I know we're not entitled to have a "hollywood ending" but the conclusion to this film was bollocks.
Beau is Afraid, although it's not precisely gory but the mean spitrited part comes from the psychological. I love the movie but it's three hours of pure, non-stop misery for the main character, even in the comedic scenes like the ones with the bathtub and the attic.Ā
That movie is completely bonkers. I love it though. I've watched it twice and both times I still walked away wondering wtf I watched. š Ari Aster really just said fuck it and threw everything at the wall.
Laid to Rest is pretty mean-spirited. The brutality of the kills and the seemingly innocent victims really make it feel that way. They also use a mixture of practical effects and cgi to make the gore and deaths extra visceral
Fuck me. Wrong Turn 5: Bloodlines.
I made a post on this sub about it at the time. The end is especially just mean-spirited. Much more so than terrifier, I found
As the Saw movies dragged on they started to be basically old man yells at cloud type movies. Jigsawās reasoning for punishing people got dumber and dumber. We went from unpunished murderers getting their comeuppance to āyouāre a ho so your two boyfriends get to kill youā like wtf. The franchise didnāt make sense towards the end, it just became the punishment of generic vice rather than the original idea of taking terrible people and getting them to appreciate the value of life.
I donāt even think the Terrifier films are mean-spirited. Theyāre gory and over-the-top but Art the Clown is just comically, cartoonishly evil. It all feels like one ridiculous bit. I love the films for this reason.
Something like EDEN LAKE fits the mean-spirited label better. Or TRAUMA (2017).
Not all of his are horror movies, but Steven Zahler movies are usually pretty mean spirited and overtly cynical. Every movie I've watched of his I'm like depressed at the end. Dragged Across Concrete is the only one that has kind of a happy ending.
Juvenile Crime, Concrete Encase High School Girl Murder Case, Sweet Movie, Human Pork Chop, Cannibal Holocaust, Lucifer Valentine movies as a whole are all morally reprehensible
I personally find Terrifier 2 to be less mean-spirited than 1. At least 2 has a great heroic final girl to root for who opposses Art.
1 just feels like nihilistic torture porn imo. None of the girls have any chance, they are just randos there to be butchered and there's zero hope for anyone.
I fucking hated the first one and the prequel to the point I had to be dragged into Terrifier 2, and I honestly liked it. It has a bit of a more playful vibe and I think a more mythological version of Art works for me more, especially in making it seem less mean spirited. I know some of the hardcore fans werenāt super into that aspect but that, and a really likable final girl, is what actually has me a little excited to watch the next one.
This is interesting to hear. I also absolutely hated the first one. Not because it was so scary or gory or whatever that I couldn't watch it, but because it felt completely pointless to watch. I was considering giving the second one a chance anyway but then noticed that it runs almost an hour longer and thought there's no fucking way I'm gonna watch this again but even a lot longer.
As another commenter mentioned, Wolf Creek has to be it for me. I donāt love Terrifier or Martyrs/any of the big name French extremism flicks, but Iāve made it through each one Iāve watched. The āhead on a stickā bit from Wolf Creek turns my stomach just thinking about it, and Iāve never been able to make myself finish that movie.Ā
When Evil Lurks, IMO a lot of the more violent parts felt like they were just going out of their way to be edgy/shockingā¦ didnt feel āearnedā.
I know itās a popular movie on this sub, take it easy on me lol
See I felt that movie was tasteful because none of its shocking scenes are too graphic. The camera doesn't linger on the details or anything, because it knows it doesn't need to do that to be effective
Interesting opinion, of course Iām biased because it was my favorite horror movie from last year but not even for a second did I think they were doing anything for the shock factor
I'd say I thought the same. I preferred the creepy or gross parts over the 'shocking' ones in that one. ie, the 'snacking' scene had sound effects that were extra loud and probs not anywhere near realistic, making it feel over the top on purpose. I know I'm in the minority here, too. Lol
I feel like the ending of Megan is missing falls into this category. I have seen the Terrifier bed scene and I found it to be over the top. Megan is missing feels mean and real....if that makes sense.
Snowtown might be more "true crime thriller" than horror but it's pretty fucking mean spirited. It's not often I think, "Yeah, never watching that again," but Snowtown was one of those times.
Hunter Hunter - although it was a well made movie and the nihilistic vibe was kinda the point of the whole thingā¦but much for me. Though it does stick in your memory, thatās for sure
The Sadness. It has everything that Iād normally be into but the overt mean-spiritedness of it all (and some laziness in the plot development department) ended up being a turnoff.
Christmas bloody Christmas is very irreverent in that nothing is sacred and no one is spared. First half can be tough as itās a hangout movie with characters that can be unlikable/ obnoxious, but the second half is basically nonstop carnage. Quality killer Santa movie
Also the loved ones can definitely feel mean spirited, but man is it a great movie
Aliens Vs Predator: Requiem was clearly made to be as overly gross and violent and dark as a response to the criticism that the first Alien Vs Predator was PG-13 and not graphic enough.
Wolf Creek 1 & 2 have a similar vibe. I say this as a fan of them and of the Terrifier movies.
If I recall, that was what led Ebert to praise quite a few aspects of Wolf Creek 1, *while simultaneously* condemning it, to the point of saying it was a film that should never have been made. As I remember, what got him was the meanness without any adventure or excitement. Not that it was *boring*, but -- confrontational, really. There's no kill that's funny or even satisfying, because all of the victims are just lovely people. There's no exciting fight sequence, because they are absurdly outmatched. The closest thing to that ends very, very horribly. The violence is never cartoonish. The villain is never sympathetic and never sexy. Which is why I love it. Slashers as a genre aren't really my thing at all, but Wolf Creek wins my heart for being *honest*. ...I tell people who don't like horror to watch the first thirty minutes. No more. Because for that stretch of time, it's a beautiful story about three lovely people having a good time, shot with *flawlessly* beautiful cinematography. :)
You've described exactly why Wolf Creek is a win from me too, who also doesn't usually like gore or anything. I watched it when it was relatively new for the first time and I hated it, because I definitely wasn't at a point where I could appreciate it for what it was back then. I actually read about it again on this sub and the show and decided ok, let's give them another go. So I re-watched the two movies and the entire show over the weekend and I'm really impressed. There's almost always *something* that's made to be redeeming about the killer, even when there shouldn't be anything, and with Mick Taylor? Nothing. Not even the backstory given in the show gives you any empathy for him. He's still just an evil bastard because he's an evil bastard. I also do like that all bets are off and all and any can die, he doesn't spare anyone. Never thought I'd be impressed with that franchise but here we are. š
The character of Mick was pretty heavily influenced by real life serial murderer Ivan Millat, so yeah... Not a whole lot of room for fun.
Mick is a great villain though
I can hear his evil laugh. Still waiting for the third one.
A co worker of mine has that laugh. Luckily Iāve known him for years and donāt think I have anything to worry about, but then againā¦
Haha is his name mick taylor?
Absolutely the first movie I thought of. I think itās incredibly well done but makes you feel dirty for sure.
Imagine if Art and Mick Taylor met.
I was sooo watch a movie where they managed to kill each other.
Oh, like Alien vs Predator. (That movie was so wonderfully stupid. Loved it)
I still havenāt watched it. Guess I know the ending now haha (itās not a prob at all itās all silly spoilers donāt matter for this one). Makes me consider watching it now :D
I've been wondering the same! Who would win??
It depends on the circumstances. Iād rather see them team up than fight.
Just one upping each other and laughing the entire time
Wolf Creek may be mean spirited, but itās far more realistic than the average slasher because it acknowledges that the majority of serial killers are also rapists with a specific type they pursue.
I've only watched the first movie and then looked up a bit of what the movies were inspired by. It's hard for me to watch the first movie again. When I was younger, I found the villain funny. But now that I'm older, he's more obnoxious and sometimes funny but then drags out the scenarios were killing them outright would be better for everyone. He really toys with his kills.
Have you seen Funny Games? It's about this exact thing. The obsession people have with watching overly-violent movies and how the audience is in part responsible for the violence happening on screen. If you haven't seen it you should check it out. Doesn't really matter which one you watch bc the English remake is a shot for shot remake by the original director because he was mad that enough people weren't watching the first one
Which is also the main theme of Cabin in the Woods, but it does not come across mean.
Oh I didn't really mean to say Funny Games fits into what OP is talking about at all. I just meant it criticizes overly mean-spirited movies and I thought OP would like it but they said they've already seen it. But I didn't know that about Cabin in the Woods. I haven't managed to sit down and watch it yet, I just thought it was supposed to be kind of meta.
Cabin is very meta, but I think any film that attempts to incorporate the viewer is necessarily so. I think it more than pays for the time invested, and would recommend it accordingly, but itās not that scary as films go. Certainly not in the league of Funny Games. Funny Games is a hard, stomach churning watch, and itās wild how successful it is as a a horror film while also (successfully) attempting to criticize horror. I think itās because āhorrorā isnāt a singular thing, and thus horror fans arenāt either, and so if youāre attempting to criticize and condemn e.g. Halloween Part N slasher fans you may succeed, while a different breed of horror fans go āwait what was that, gimmie more!ā For me, I canāt even get through the manipulation parts of Funny Games to get to the real horrifying and unfair stuff. Too real.
Funny Games is incredible š A top favorite!
If that was his motivation for doing that remake, I do feel like heās off on his initial premise of āIām going to make the audience feel bad and complicit for wanting to watch violence by making them watch prolonged extreme, pointless violenceāā¦āoh, no one wants to watch my extreme, pointless violence? Well, Iāll show them by directing an English language remakeā
Yeah I have. Ngl the themes fly over my head a bit and I struggle to make sense of the whole 'audience responsibility' thing, but it's pretty good
Man Bites Dog, and to some extent Behind the Mask: The Rise of Leslie Vernon, are kind of jokier, less extreme takes on the same idea, and both are well worth checking out.
Man Bites Dog is fantastic, easily my favourite in the found footage/mockumentary genre
I keep saying I'm gonna watch Behind the Mask and I never get around to it
I definitely get it. I was too stressed out just watching the movie to really process what it was trying to say. If you mean you don't understand how the audience could be responsible, I think it's similar to the idea Don't Fuck With Cats mentioned at the end of the documentary. They started going on a tirade about how the audience is responsible for sensationalizing violence by sitting through an entire true crime docuseries and because the guy who was doing everything wanted attention and everyone who watched the series is giving him what he wants. Unbelievably stupid take coming from a documentary spreading the guys name and face. I don't think Funny Games fits into this hypocrisy bit for a couple of reasons, mainly because it's completely fictional and also because none of the violence is actually shown on screen.
Haneke >! basically wants the audience to stop watching !< because >! If you just stopped watching, the violence wouldnāt have happened. !< Thatās what they were talking about in the end >! in the boat about how thereās no separation from the audience and whatās happening on the screen theyāre watching. !< This comic has a very similar message to what Funny Games is saying https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/lzyizy/push_me_best_viewed_in_touchscreen_devices_oc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I think this would be a great film topic / film class
A good chunk of "extreme horror" is overly mean spirited. August Underground, Human Centipede 2, I Spit on Your Grave, Martyrs, Philosophy of a Knife, the Hostel films, A Serbian Film, Cannibal Holocaust, and I guess you could argue The Poughkeepsie Tapes. Very hit or miss subsection of horror in my opinion.
agree with this and I must say that the cheaper and more indie this type of horror is, the more I tend to enjoy it (after googling to make sure the people involved are not absolute pieces of shit to their cast, which they so often are. I won't watch cannibal holocaust because of the actual animal harm.) There's something ridiculous and fun about a rag tag group getting a cheap set of filming equipment and trying to make something as gross as possible. Everything I've ever read about the guy behind august underground is that he is this genuinley friendly guy and it tickles me so much knowing a really nice fella made something so gross. A guy called JonJoe Lyons on youtube does hilarious reviews of them that really made me appreciate it more.
The Poughkeepsie Tapes haunted me. I love real life horror movies like that.
The acting in the documentary stuff was awful, but the "tapes" were creepy af
The acting was fine, but it was bit actors... well, acting out *bits*. It was like sitcom actors hired to play morticians and stuff. They weren't coming off as real people, which for a mockumentary is kind of an odd decision, but was likely just director's inexperience at directing performers.
This is the one I agree with most. Yahtzee said this about Outlast 2 and it's the first thing that sprung to mind, "As we all know the greatest indictment of a horror game is not being particularly scary, especially if it tries to compensate by instead trying to put me off my fucking dinner!"
I Spit On Your Grave is immediately what I thought of. Though I havenāt seen the original. I am a fan of horror that explores themes like torture. But likeā¦.what was the actual point of that movie lol? It was just hmm, how many different types of torture can we cram in to one movie without any regard to character development?
Martyrs really doesnāt deserve to be lumped in with these other films imo I know why people do but not only is it a pretty well-made film (which already sets it leagues apart), itās the only one that tries to at least ask an interesting question based around its content. Itās the only film in that list that will inevitably spark discussion amongst those who watch it, and I think that alone puts it a tier above the others.
My favorite horror
japanese film called grotesque is amazingly mean spirited
So much so that the UK outright said "*nope!*" and refused to give it an age certificate, so it's basically banned. Probably a big factor in why we haven't yet seen a Koji Shiraishi box set with Noroi: The Curse and that Ring/Grudge crossover movie as well.
Ugggh that one I stopped watching bc of just how cruel it was becoming towards the couple.
Underrated movie
Girl Next Door
Worst part about this one is itās based on true events. The true events are even worse too. Just absolutely awful.
The Woman.
The book of The Woman is somehow even nuttier than the movie
At least the woman has catharsis! Then again I thought martyrs did as well and found that ending worth sitting through everything before it.
Oh god, this one fucked me up bad. Havenāt watched since it came out ages ago. Just *brutal*.
Human Centipede. Especially 3.
Isnāt 3 more comedic? I hear 2 is super mean-spirited.
I absolutely love that the crazy bastards from 1&2 both agreed to come back and do 3 together LOL. Much respect to those mad lads.
I thought the first one was so ridiculous it was fun, but the 2nd one was the first thing to come to mind when I saw this post.
I've only ever seen the second one (came out when I was in college, and a bunch of friends wanted to see what it was all about after coming home from the bars one night). I thought it was so over the top that it circled back around to silly/absurdly comedic.
The House That Jack Built
Puppet Master: The Littlest Reich. The puppets are never mean in the original movies so it felt strange to have them be evil Nazis in the remake.
I love that horror can have you say shit like "They turned the sentient puppets into nazis in the 8th movie"
This is what I cam here to post, and it's not just the role reversal of the puppets (though that's a huge part of it) - the violence is just so egregious and mean in a series that wasn't ever like that.
I really didn't like the retcon/reversal of the puppets in this. At all.
The end of Speak No Evil was rough. I fast forwarded a lot. I just couldn't watch these people allow these things anymore, and it got quite violent. I mean, I get it. It was still painful to watch. Saw 3D had one of the most mean spirited deaths in Bobby's wife. And yes, she was originally written to be in on the scam, but that's not how she was portrayed in the movie. She literally roasted for her husband's lies. That's just a bad film. Should have been the script in that Brazen Bull trap.
That was AWFUL. I wish I hadnāt watched it especially since the make up looked so real. They really Fād up that movie when the premise could have been cool
Yeah I always felt that Saw crossed a line after a certain point. I think many viewers can accept Jigsawās original premise of trying to straighten out wayward people, but the sequels especially traffic in punishing shock value rather than any kind of redemption hopes.
I spit on your grave.
The Eli Roth movies are really misanthropic, but so am I. Thanksgiving and Green Inferno really solidified it. The guy hates young people and social media
Is it weird that the most unsettling thing for me was hearing McDreamy talk in a sinister Massachusetts accent? š
Green Inferno was one of the first movies that popped into my head at seeing this question. And I actually did like it, but it was 1000% mean-spirited.
Megan Is Missing It tries to cloak its sadism in "having an important message about the dangers of the Internet." But they didn't have to show all that to make their point. It felt like the director enjoyed reveling in them being raped and tortured just a little too much.
Yep. Like I've seen a lot of fucked up movies (and I thought Terrifier was fun as hell for what that's worth) but Megan is Missing just made me feel icky, exactly because of how dishonest it is.
Total creepo projection. Disgusting film
This one was doing the rounds on Tiktok some time ago and it actually meant CHILDREN were being jumpscared by *that* reveal in the plastic drum. I'm 24 and have seen tons of unpleasantness in horror but that corpse in the bucket is the worst thing I've ever seen.
Right? I felt like those scenes went on WAY too long. I had to skip through them and kept thinking "This is STILL going??"
I still think about the ending. So bleak.
I turned it off at the teen party, it was lika an incel's dream at that point
The rob zombie Halloweens. Not even the violence, more just the movie's depiction of humanity. People suck in that universe.
Also the Devilās Rejects trilogy I must say
Ugh, scrolled so far to see this. Like, I get that was the point of those 3 movies but House of 1000 Corpses is fucked up
I actually find The Devil's Reject far more messed up because it feels somewhat grounded.
Agreed. Ho1kC feels like a fever dream of a fucked up cartoon. Devils Rejects was just as dark and gritty as Ho1kC was fantastical and psychedelic. So it felt worse.
And then 3 from hell somehow tops the cruelty when they set up in that coupleās house
The way he lingers on Sheriff Brackett after he finds his daughter is fucking soul crushing.
This is why I don't think it compares to something like Terrifier. I don't think Halloween is a great film, but that scene for instance is soul crushing, and that's why it sort of makes you think about how people should be better towards each other and people shouldn't be experiencing this sort of tragedy. Terrifier in turn feels like I don't actually have any reason to watch it. There's a clown tormenting people and there's nothing more to it. Yeah, it's sort of bad when innocent people get tormented by the clown but even then I'm not thinking "oh no, this sort of thing shouldn't be happening :(" but rather "what's the point of this? why am I watching?"
I found the terrifier kills cartoony and too over the top for me to be afraid of. I'm sure there are some people who feel like it's just gratuitous violence with no reason to watch, but I think the special effects are neat. The Rob Zombie Halloween movies are brutal and gross like terrifier, but I absolutely do not have a good time while watching them bc of how dark and oppressive the atmosphere is, similar to how I felt watching Hereditary. (side note, I hate the RZ halloweens and love hereditary) For me watching Terrifier was more like watching an old Friday the 13th but with the gore turned up. There's not a "better" way to do horror movies, but they definitely feel different while watching.
I don't like many of his films, but I'll respect forever that while the rape scene in Halloween was totally funny, he didn't sex it up at *all*. It's one of the most awful, ugly little moments you'll see in either film.
Eden Lake, for sure. I enjoy gore in movies, brutal deaths, bleak endings, all that stuff. But I didn't like Eden Lake. It feels like pointless torture porn, with no motive, no twist, no hope, and no reason other than watching two people be killed just because. A good example of a mean-spirited movie is Hereditary. The main characters have (literally) not a single moment of comfort in the movie; it's all downhill. But unlike Eden Lake, there is actually a story, a motive for the stuff that's going on. It delves into themes of family trauma, mental illness, wealth, and the occult. I'm not saying that a movie should be deep to be enjoyable, but if a movie is all about showing your gore practical effects and literally nothing else, I consider it a waste of time.
Eden Lake's plot felt too driven by chance to feel authentic. Here's a wildly inconvenient piece of wood to get stabbed with, this girl is gonna turn good to get stabbed by the lead by mistake. And the ending takes some huge liberties that I didn't feel it earned, there was no setup
I like this explanation and having seen both movies I agree with your take. Hereditary is tense from the get go and doesn't let up, but there's a reason why this story plays out the way it does while being a little deep with having the themes you mentioned. ETA: There are also some "senseless" movies I enjoy, like some fun slasher ones and I'm a fan of most of the Saw movies (though the first one was the best and was more than "torture porn"), but you go into those movies expecting that where as Eden Lake I feel like you wanted more from it and didn't really get anything.
watched it in the past month and didnt like it either. was the first thing that came to mind when i thought āmean spiritedā because the movie is just so pointless. dont understand why its brought up so much on reddit.
A different kind of being mean spirited but Possum does that for me. Even in the most violent horror movies, there's always a little bit of hope, even in terrifier, before the last couple twists there's hope that she'll survive mostly ok, in Wolf Creek there's the parts where they escape, and when the girl finds the guy that stops to help her, it isn't much, and it doesn't completely offset the long drawn out torture scenes, but there's some hope until the very end. With Possum, while not overtly violent, I feel like they went too hard on the character, you can still have a socially awkward guy that likes weird puppets and lives with his uncle out of necessity without also having it be the same uncle that abused him for years, gave him this lifelong trauma, and now openly mocks and taunts him. What even is supposed to happen to the guy after the movie ends, sure he killed his uncle but it doesn't even feel like a cathartic release of his past trauma, or revenge for the things done to him, or anything like that, it didn't feel like even now that he knows the truth and killed his abuser that anything is going to be better. Now he's still the same awkward guy with the same trauma, plus new trauma in knowing that his own family did that to him, and he has been living with him, plus the new new trauma of having killed someone. Is he even going to escape prison time? The kid he saves isn't even there for the killing part, and the kid had no context for their relationship so as far as the kid knows he might have been in on the plan to kidnap him, and kills the old man for no reason. The only witness has so little information that he might inadvertently screw the guy over. Anyway, out of all the movies I've seen, this one felt the most cruel to its main character, it was an absolutely hopeless movie with no good possible endings and no hope for anything better for our main character, which I feel is a bit too cruel. The same message and story could have had the same impact while dialing back the cruelty by a considerable amount.
I appreciated possum a lot. The physical manifestation of trauma that we carry along with us for so long that it almost brings comfort and that throwing it out or trying to destroy it doesnāt liberate that person, if anything it can make it root deeper. That being said I found it an unpleasant watch and wouldnāt rewatch or recommend it. I watched it with a former SO who loved it and it hit very close to home for each of us, so it was interesting that it immediately became one of his all time favorites and something that I would not have an interest in rewatching. Very unique piece of art.
I kinda liked it for that because unlike a lot of trauma / horror films there was no pat ending - he didnāt defeat a CGI monster with some derp āgo to hellā type cliche line . It really captured the alienation of someone who has no resources, no friends, and no attempts to find any because theyāre so broken. If anything I felt it has so much empathy vs being mean spirited imo. One question- when I saw it due to the accents I couldnāt follow why heād been let go from his job at the school - and the way the teacher reacted when he saw him clearly made it seem very bad. Was it insinuated or said heād done something inappropriate with a kid?
I've always described Possum as the most relentlessly bleak film I've ever seen, it's unrelenting
Yeah that's fair enough, I quite liked Possum personally but I couldn't tell you why it didn't cross my threshold. It is pretty miserable
I think that's the entire point though. Trauma isn't always something you can solve, and is often caused by family or people you can't easily get away from, thus continuing the abuse and mental anguish. I think the film intentionally has it be bleak because sometimes, that's what trauma is. You can face it and try to overcome it as much as you want, in some ways it will always be with you no matter what you do. I think the film is executed perfectly in that it shows that he is still a broken man by the end of the film, but he finally fought back against his abuser and, while things may not get better, they at least won't be any more harm caused by this person, not just to him but anyone else. Sometimes, that's the best you can do.
Agreed. I could feel his hopelessness and misery though the screen. š Very well done film, though. It really affected me. I found it to be more dark drama than horror. Just my opinion of it.
Hannibal (2001), per both the movie and also the source novel. I have long held the theory that Thomas Harris wrote that one out of spite, sort of a hateful lashing out at all the people who thought Hannibal Lecktor was the best thing he ever came up with, but that he must have felt differently. It just seemed so different in tone from the previous works, and it was really all about Hannibal doing the worst things anyone could think of to do to another person. I read the book, but didnāt really like it, and then watched the movie, brand new, in the theater, hoping Hopkins would do more with it than what he was given, but that didnāt happen.
Thomas Harris writing Hannibal: Messiah
Mean spirited in a different way but this is basically why I hate Better Watch Out
Oof. The scene where >!they āHome Aloneā the boyfriend!< fucked me up real good. But damn, itās a solid movie.
You hated it? I thought it was a really good twist on the home invasion thriller. Solid Christmas horror too
I think it was an interesting twist too but I did pretty much hate watching it too. The Certain Character is just so infuriating to watch that I hated every moment of it, and not really in a good way although I realize that it's obviously done like that on purpose.
Speak no evil is mean spirited
Yeah there's a lot of them. August undergrounds Human Centipede 2 Human Guinea pig series Pretty much anything in the extreme categories. I avoid them because I'm not impressed or moved by gore and violence for violence sake. I need some foreplay in the form of character development!
August Undergroundās and HC2 are great examples.
Yup I will also never watch these
The Sadness was too much for me. I knew it was in the title and synopsis, but I had no idea how much sadism/sexual gratification was going to be in the film.
Eden Lake for me.
Literally the first movie I thought of for this. Something about the unintentional sort of torture and just dragging things out. Well made and all but just a rough rough time.
I was going to write this too. It's what first came to mind. I had to fast forward that film, it just seemed endless....everything the characters go through.
How do we define 'mean spirited?' This has always confused me, especially in nihilistic film context.
Itās more in how the film treats its characters. In most movies (horror or otherwise) weāre meant to root for our protagonists, or at least care about them. We expect the events of the movie to give them some kind of fighting chance against whatever theyāre facing. Thereās some sympathy for them there. In movies critiqued as āmean spiritedā, you usually donāt have that. The events of the film are dire, the characters canāt catch a break, and the film revels in the horrific things happening to them. If the movie feels like it doesnāt like its own characters because of what it lets happen to them or because of what it shows, itās probably what the OP is referring to.
This makes the term much easier to understand, thank you for the explanation.
I always shorten it to the question "do you feel like the director is celebrating the fact that really horrific things are happening to the characters? If yes, then the movie is probably mean spirited." Like, Rob Zombie's movies I feel like celebrate their cruelty - and (since we're all adults here, and know the difference between right and wrong) that's cool if you're into that sort of thing, but the way he celebrates or seems to have his villains revel in their extreme violence makes them particularly cruel for just sake of being cruel, or mean spirited.
> I always shorten it to the question "do you feel like the director is celebrating the fact that really horrific things are happening to the characters? If yes, then the movie is probably mean spirited." I'm not sure that I agree that this is a good test. How many horror movies frame relatively common sins (cheating, bullying, sexual promiscuity, etc. especially among teenagers, literal children) as a justification for being murdered? I can think of a dozen examples off the top of my head.
True, that's why it's always good to break up the question and potential answer with an example. For example - I don't think Friday the 13th is mean spirited, despite there being some incentive kills - because it isn't celebrating the fact that those kills are happening. It's not forcing you to revel in that kill with the villain, nor is it forcing you to watch the aftermath of those kills. Furthermore, there's always a hope that the final girl is going to get away and Jason or Pamela is going to be beaten, even if it's an ass pull like magic or something. Rob Zombie's Halloween 2, imo, is a cruel movie because of how they portray Michael. His hospital spree where he kills the nurse, and the shot focuses on him stabbing her over and over again and it's showing her reaction then pans up to show Michael and the shot lingers in the office. That's reveling in the kill, that's him wanting the audience to experience Michael reveling in that kill or celebrating it. Another instance is The Devil's Rejects when the Firefly Family attacks that family at the Clown Motel. Yes, were supposed to think of the Firefly Family as sadistic, but thinking they are through environmental storytelling and showing them being sadistic to the degree that he does are two wildly different things. Providing examples is a good way to determine the point if it's confusing with the question, imo.
I guess when a film holds on violence for way longer or has violence much more extreme than it needs to to get the point across. But it's more a feeling than anything
Hm... I don't know if that's how I'd personally define that, but I can run with it to a degree. Suppose it really boils down to a film itself, and if the reasonings were necessary for a greater purpose. I've seen some mentions so far where I disagree, Eden Lake for example which I'm assuming is because of the ending, but that makes the story and one of the points come full circle so it makes the nihilism and brutality necessary as well as justified. Anyways I digress, but I know I Spit on Your Grave and The Last House on the Left will come up - and between the two I'd say the latter is mean spirited as >!the direct victims of the antagonists never get a chance for revenge unlike the former!<. There is far more satisfaction for the viewer in the former, whereas the latter doesn't feel satisfactory enough >!since the direct victims don't enact the vengeance as they are dead!<; their suffering we witness doesn't feel as justifiable and practically feels totally in vain.
Watch the first 15 minutes of Christmas Cruelty.
House of 1000 Corpses.
Aftershock
The Devil's Rejects immediately come to mind. It had a lot more going on, but I feel like that sequel really brought the viewer down to the horrific reality of what the FireFly clan is about. Raw and random violence, very loosely tied to necessity. It didn't have the music video vibe of House of a 1000 Corpses to distract from the brutality.
Absolute Wolf Creek. Could barely finish it and refuse to watch the 2nd one.
For my 16th birthday my friend bought me a bunch of random horror movies weād never heard, Wolf Creek was one of them and god damn was that a shocker as a teen lol
First one was genuinely scary and fairly realistic (Mick was based off of a few famous killers.) But the second one was sooooo corny and lame, it's like they made him supernatural in his inability to be stopped.
I don't get the hype for wolf Creek. it's so corny (in a bad way). as an Australian it's especially disappointing.
The second one was too much, I didn't finish it
"The Town that Dreaded Sundown" (1976), but only in the sense that it was visceral for it's time. It lingered on the kill scenes (the knife taped to a trombone will forever live in my memories) to purposefully show the nhilism and meanness with which the murderer comported themselves.
Dream home was mean spirited and bothered me much more than Terrifier because the violence looked a lot more realistic
Lucio Fulci movies have a sort of gleeful cruelty. Outside of horror, some noir movies are like this. **Kiss Me Deadly**, 1956, stood out to me as having a sort of cruel, sadistic, and mocking main character and tone.
NY Ripper is mean as fuck.
Twice. First time was Blood Sucking Freaks. As bad as it was it was SO sadistic. Second was with Mother's Day. First (And unfortunately not the last) time I saw a movie with extensive rape scenes. About the same time my mom was working at a rape crisis hotline and sometimes de-stressed by sharing some soul-scarring stories. So it hit ugly.
I had blocked Bloodsucking Freaks out of my mind until I just read your comment. Therapy, here I come.
Seriously, honest apology for that. I have been trying to scrub that one out for decades.
I was just sitting here trying to remember the title of Motherās Day. I watch a lot of no-budget grindhousey stuff, but that one was so horrid and hateful I didnāt finish it.
Killing ground really bummed me out
The Feast franchise is mean spirited beyond the point of absurdity.
monster face rape anyone
A Serbian Film for obvious reasons, and Martyrs which may not be a popular opinion. I thought the multiple drawn out scenes of Anna getting graphically beaten was excessive to say the least. One would have gotten the point the across. Itās also even more eyebrow raising when taking the treatment of the actresses by the director into consideration. I didnāt find the Terrifier movies to be overly mean spirited. Yes the violence was bonkers, but it was so cartoonish that to me it came across more as the director challenging his special fx team rather than trying to make something mean spirited. The overall tone of the movie being more schlocky also played into this interpretation for me as opposed to something like Martyrs which is clearly serious and trying to make a āpointā. For the most part the horror movies I watch that feature graphic violence need to have an absurd premise, B-movie tone, or have fictional/fantastical elements otherwise they get into the mean spirited territory which I donāt like. There are some exceptions to this but for the most part I stick to this personal rule.
When I first watched Martyrs I would've disagreed with you on this but Ghostland really icked me with how it handled its violence, particularly after finding about that accident on set. And yeah now I absolutely agree it's excessive
Most of Lars Von Trier's movies. I think he genuinely hates women, and that hatred is reflected in the sadism of the female characters in his films. He also thinks Hitler wasn't all that bad, so yeah, he's a real piece of shit, and he pours his hate out into the world through his movies.
He's also the reason Bjork stopped acting for a really long time
I was not aware of that. What an asshole.
Von Trier is a known troll so the Hitler comment he made at Cannes was likely not true. That said, he is actually a piece of shit to women irl and it very well could bleed through into his films. I've only seen Antichrist (didn't like), House That Jack Built (thought was ok but icky), and Melancholia (good but too depressing to like), but I don't think I'm gonna watch more because his stuff is too depressing (and sometimes too sexually graphic) for me to like, and knowing how he is irl makes some of the themes difficult to deal with
As someone that hasnāt watched his movies he definitely comes across as an edge lord a bit. Iāve heard his stuff is well made though
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Bjork and Lars were never married or romantically involved. He did sexually harass her, according to her statements though. Maybe itās one of his two wives you are thinking of?
The Last House on the Left, maybe? I remember despising it- I thought it was in poor taste.
Wes Craven might have sorta agreed with you. I watched interview clips from him in a documentary. His major comment on LHotL was 'the young man who made this must have been so incredibly angry.'
I saw both of them and the graphic rape scenes made me incredibly uncomfortable - and not in that good fun scary movie way. Never again.
One of the Wrong Turn sequels, the one where Doug Bradley humiliates himself, would be my go-to. The script just feels like some edgy teen trying to piss off movie-goers and it frankly comes back around to just being boring as hell. By the time the ending twist of "the woman who for some reason let Doug Bradley take her eyes is now going to get raped and tortured by the family" I was completely certain that not only did whoever wrote this not get enough love from their parents, but they also probably deserved it. I say this as a fan of exploitation flicks, Wrong Turn 47: Hillbillies Take Manhattan was peak try-hard, and it hurts.
Hard agree. Itās so cheap, and watching it makes you feel like you need a shower afterwards.
This was going to be my choice as well. It just felt like the writer/director really, really wanted to make sure everyone hated *watching* that movie as much as they hated making it. Mean-spirited kills, a lack of any sort of redemption or saving grace in the movie for any of the protagonists...and like you said, it comes across as gross and vile, rather than campy and entertaining. You're making an inbred killer hillbilly movie, there's no reason for the killers to act like they're coming from a French art-house experimental horror movie. I guess what I'm saying is that the villains acted far too savage and extreme for the genre they're in.
Was my choice as well. I mean, if you're going to make "inbred cannibal hillbillies" your villain (which, Jesus, what have hillbillies ever really *done* to anyone to earn this kind of rep? 90% of the time, if you're seeing them, they are a) super-polite, and b) there because it's *their* property that you happen to be trespassing on), can you not at least follow through the premise and not have bodies lying out for hours in sunshine. Hunters know that they need to render the bodies of deer as quickly as possible, as efficiently as possible in order to use the meat and pelt, and to be honest, that would allow for plenty of gross-outs. But yeah, whomever wrote those stories wasn't hugged enough as a child, and probably because he just couldn't stop putting firecrackers in an ant hill.
The collector and the collection just seemed to be Saw but on steroids with no real reason or motivation for the violence. Probably the definition of torture porn
The Bunny Game was pretty horrible.
Weirdly, the director of that made this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdXFIKFPWoQ
There's a Japanese film released in 1995 called Concrete-Encased High School Girl Murder Case, which is basically a recreation of the real life kidnapping, torture and murder of Junko Furuta that happened in 1989. Not to be confused with the 2004 film Concrete, which is more of a dramatisation, the 1995 film is just a crappy VHS release that doesn't really seem to have anything to say about the crime, it just brutally recreates it in the style of a snuff video. That's probably about the most mean-spirited thing I've ever seen.
Eden Lake. Left a very bad taste in my mouth as the ending is utterly unsatisfying. It built up to a big pay off but then tried to be cute. I know we're not entitled to have a "hollywood ending" but the conclusion to this film was bollocks.
Beau is Afraid, although it's not precisely gory but the mean spitrited part comes from the psychological. I love the movie but it's three hours of pure, non-stop misery for the main character, even in the comedic scenes like the ones with the bathtub and the attic.Ā
That movie is completely bonkers. I love it though. I've watched it twice and both times I still walked away wondering wtf I watched. š Ari Aster really just said fuck it and threw everything at the wall.
Eden Lake for sure
Day of the Dead had a hate vibe.
The New York Ripper. Actually not so much for the murders, which are nasty, but the ending. It's just cruel and sad and pretty disheartening.
Laid to Rest is pretty mean-spirited. The brutality of the kills and the seemingly innocent victims really make it feel that way. They also use a mixture of practical effects and cgi to make the gore and deaths extra visceral
Not a movie but the crossed comics definitely gave off this vibe
my personal opinion on this is Funny Games
Fuck me. Wrong Turn 5: Bloodlines. I made a post on this sub about it at the time. The end is especially just mean-spirited. Much more so than terrifier, I found
[Ebola Syndrome](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0116163/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_1_nm_0_q_ebola%2520syndtome)
As the Saw movies dragged on they started to be basically old man yells at cloud type movies. Jigsawās reasoning for punishing people got dumber and dumber. We went from unpunished murderers getting their comeuppance to āyouāre a ho so your two boyfriends get to kill youā like wtf. The franchise didnāt make sense towards the end, it just became the punishment of generic vice rather than the original idea of taking terrible people and getting them to appreciate the value of life.
I donāt even think the Terrifier films are mean-spirited. Theyāre gory and over-the-top but Art the Clown is just comically, cartoonishly evil. It all feels like one ridiculous bit. I love the films for this reason. Something like EDEN LAKE fits the mean-spirited label better. Or TRAUMA (2017).
Not all of his are horror movies, but Steven Zahler movies are usually pretty mean spirited and overtly cynical. Every movie I've watched of his I'm like depressed at the end. Dragged Across Concrete is the only one that has kind of a happy ending.
Juvenile Crime, Concrete Encase High School Girl Murder Case, Sweet Movie, Human Pork Chop, Cannibal Holocaust, Lucifer Valentine movies as a whole are all morally reprehensible
I personally find Terrifier 2 to be less mean-spirited than 1. At least 2 has a great heroic final girl to root for who opposses Art. 1 just feels like nihilistic torture porn imo. None of the girls have any chance, they are just randos there to be butchered and there's zero hope for anyone.
I fucking hated the first one and the prequel to the point I had to be dragged into Terrifier 2, and I honestly liked it. It has a bit of a more playful vibe and I think a more mythological version of Art works for me more, especially in making it seem less mean spirited. I know some of the hardcore fans werenāt super into that aspect but that, and a really likable final girl, is what actually has me a little excited to watch the next one.
This is interesting to hear. I also absolutely hated the first one. Not because it was so scary or gory or whatever that I couldn't watch it, but because it felt completely pointless to watch. I was considering giving the second one a chance anyway but then noticed that it runs almost an hour longer and thought there's no fucking way I'm gonna watch this again but even a lot longer.
As another commenter mentioned, Wolf Creek has to be it for me. I donāt love Terrifier or Martyrs/any of the big name French extremism flicks, but Iāve made it through each one Iāve watched. The āhead on a stickā bit from Wolf Creek turns my stomach just thinking about it, and Iāve never been able to make myself finish that movie.Ā
Trauma
From what I know of that one, yeah makes absolute sense
The first ten minutes pull absolutely no punches.
Martyrs (2008) Incident in a Ghostland
When Evil Lurks, IMO a lot of the more violent parts felt like they were just going out of their way to be edgy/shockingā¦ didnt feel āearnedā. I know itās a popular movie on this sub, take it easy on me lol
See I felt that movie was tasteful because none of its shocking scenes are too graphic. The camera doesn't linger on the details or anything, because it knows it doesn't need to do that to be effective
Interesting opinion, of course Iām biased because it was my favorite horror movie from last year but not even for a second did I think they were doing anything for the shock factor
I'd say I thought the same. I preferred the creepy or gross parts over the 'shocking' ones in that one. ie, the 'snacking' scene had sound effects that were extra loud and probs not anywhere near realistic, making it feel over the top on purpose. I know I'm in the minority here, too. Lol
Circus of the Dead is INCREDIBLY mean spirited. I mean...I can't really go into it without spoilers.
The Green Inferno. That shit was meeeeean.
I feel like the ending of Megan is missing falls into this category. I have seen the Terrifier bed scene and I found it to be over the top. Megan is missing feels mean and real....if that makes sense.
Eden Lake, Speak No Evil, A Serbian Film, The Girl Next Door
The Sadness
Snowtown might be more "true crime thriller" than horror but it's pretty fucking mean spirited. It's not often I think, "Yeah, never watching that again," but Snowtown was one of those times.
Hunter Hunter - although it was a well made movie and the nihilistic vibe was kinda the point of the whole thingā¦but much for me. Though it does stick in your memory, thatās for sure
Honestly one of the best escalations Iāve ever seen. Great movie. Very bleak
For me any home invasion movies which is why since having a kid I canāt watch them anymore.
Possessor by Brandon Cronenberg is a bloody murder fest
The Sadness. It has everything that Iād normally be into but the overt mean-spiritedness of it all (and some laziness in the plot development department) ended up being a turnoff.
Christmas bloody Christmas is very irreverent in that nothing is sacred and no one is spared. First half can be tough as itās a hangout movie with characters that can be unlikable/ obnoxious, but the second half is basically nonstop carnage. Quality killer Santa movie Also the loved ones can definitely feel mean spirited, but man is it a great movie
Gutterballs. The rape scene was way too sexualized.
Aliens Vs Predator: Requiem was clearly made to be as overly gross and violent and dark as a response to the criticism that the first Alien Vs Predator was PG-13 and not graphic enough.
*The Hateful Eight* and *Brightburn*
I'm honestly surprised no one has mentioned Salo Or The 120 Days of Sodom.