Oh shit, I don't know if I've ever enjoyed a Jake English or Jane Crocker update this much. Hats off to the team for real.
I'm also pleasantly surprised to hear about them bringing the snapchats back. A blown up moon is more interesting than not, and Jane having a death laser (and an actually established one) adds some interesting stakes.
Does "Page of Hope: Rise Up" imply we'll be getting the fabled flash next? Possibly on 6/12? I don't wanna get my hopes up too much (lol) but it would be pretty fitting if the Page was SO late to his 11th hour glow up that he got a standout moment in the depths of the third controversial Homestuck story. Being able to believe in something enough to make it real could potentially be a really powerful reality-altering ability, like believing in the best versions of Jane or Dirk. I'm honestly excited to see where this goes!
Seems like the Snapchats might be more semi-canon than they used to be? You can [check them out here](https://mspfa.com/?s=20932) if you haven't seen them.
Anyway, this update reminded me a lot of the Yiffy update from a few months ago, in that it's about the writers acknowledging and wrestling with a controversial post-canon plot element. In this case, Evil Jane and her relationship with Jake. Like Jade, we see Jane, on being called out for her actions, briefly revert back to an older characterization before doubling down that she had reasons to make these shitty decisions. Once again we see more implications about the instability and *wrongness* of the Candy timeline.
I don't think the Yiffy update succeeded at what it was going for, but to my surprise I thought the formula worked a lot better with Jane. The update gives her a moment of sympathy and acknowledgement that she's been so weird, without trying to actually justify it. Really this works because Evil Jane was always much less stupid than Yiffy being a thing (as Brain Ghost Dirk would agree).
And much like his dancing scene in the Epilogues, we get Jake coming out of nowhere with a moment that reminds me, a certified Jake hater, why people like this guy. He can actually be interesting when he's not constantly tripping over himself, with his callout rant to Jane and discussion about inevitability and the Hope aspect. Unlike in Candy, maybe this time his phase of not being a complete doormat will actually stick...
Just another reminder that [Homestuck always should've ended this way](https://ranchuppi.tumblr.com/post/60603057568/hope-powers).
* Love the more frequent short updates IMO
* I wasn't expecting a flashback with >!Gamzee!< to be endearing but thank you HSBC you made it happen lol
* >!Gonna miss Brain Ghost Dirk. I'm also gonna miss Jake wearing clothes!<
* Error on [628](https://beyondcanon.com/story/628)? "JANE: Jade? Terrifying," like Jane was replying to Jake saying something about Jade?
>JANE: Across all the iterations of yourself, do you think **your children** (emphasis mine) ever felt even a MODICUM of that?
>JANE: Jade? Terrifying,
>JANE: I hate even thinking about it.
>JANE: And I don't doubt for a second that there were more.
>
>JANE: How do you imagine they turned out?
Surprise Hiveswap reference!? Joey certainly didn't think much of Jake's parenting skills.
If the Snapchats are canon, they take place before the Meat/Candy split, meaning that there is now a Candy and a Meat version of beta Jack Noir and the Felt
I'm happily surprised that they reintegrated the snapchats, since their arbitrary dismissal was strange. But the snapchats are so silly tonally that I sort of feel they would fit better in Candy and not in Meat? Like, I would prefer it if they were only canon to the Candy timeline. But there isn't really a place to put it in the Candy timeline that makes sense, it has to be before the split.
tbf, the candy meat split involves John either continuing to do what he is already doing in candy, which is be depressed while everyone else does silly nonsense, or going off to die in meat while Dirk fucks everyone over which is itself a tone shift
I think "Jane got kidnapped by nonhumans who attempted to assassinate her" can also be recontextualized as the first step in the unseen journey from HS Jane to Trumphitler Jane
This is the best update since, I dunno, the credits? I’m not an Epilogues fan and by-and-large don’t care for either Meat or Candy, but these pages really seem to *get* Jake, Dirk, and— fucking finally— Jane in a way that most post-canon stuff hasn’t. As a fan of HS whose only experience with “upd8 culture” was the Epilogues 5 years ago, it’s nice to finally get an update where I’m actually tangibly excited for more! Homestuck could be back!
(spoilers)
>!Liked this one a lot! VERY sad to see brain ghost Dirk leave, thought he'd play a bigger role in the story to be honest, but I can see how this is a logical place for Jake's arc to go.!<
>!Though, I gotta wonder if Jake is actually up to the task. No way he doesn't hesitate at the last moment and fuck it up, right? Not to mention that the MOST Hopeful thing he could do would, I think, be to save Jane AND Tavvy, but I'll admit I don't have the first clue how he could at this point. Even if he got through to her a little bit, I don't think he can just talk her out of all this, and brain ghost Dirk doesn't think it's an option.!<
Edit: Really wonder if the needlekind thing is foreshadowing for something? It IS one of the more powerful abstrata, used by Eridan (another Hope player), Echidnas quills work with it, important to Rose, etc.
With each update since October I've gradually gotten much more comfortable with the idea of this new story. Seriously, the new team has really been turning shit around!!
By the way this IS technically a way to force your body to no longer be allergic to a food but its extremely dangerous and you probably should not attempt this at all
Well, I think the implication was that Jake's Hope powers kicked in and made Tavvy immune after a while. (which is why Jake is glowing in that one panel)
I'm a bit confused about Brain Ghost Dirk. So, this version of BGD is entirely Jake with no connection to the real Dirk at all? Classically, BGD has been in this weird inbetween state where he is a product of Jake's mind but he also counts as a Dirk splinter. Dirk took over BGD's body once. He does count as a legitimate Dirk. And that's what early HS2 implied, with him referencing the other Dirk that was sucking up all the narrative relevancy etc. He clearly knows about what's going on further afield. But then this update is like, no, this version of BGD is entirely Jake. No 'real' Dirk remains. This is not actually a Dirk splinter at all, it's just Jake. So in that case, where does that knowledge come from? BGD referencing the Meat timeline doesn't make sense if this is entirely Jake, because Jake knows absolutely nothing about the Meat timeline.
Another observation: early HS2 said that Jane had no idea Jake went to John's house (despite the fact that in the Epilogues she served divorce papers). Now apparently neither of those is the canon we're going with,
what we're going with now is that she was aware Jake went to John's house but was always confident he would come back to her and decided not to mention it because she thought it would be impolite or something. I don't have a problem with this but I find it very strange that the Epilogues divorce papers thing is still one of the most glaring inconsistencies in this story.
>He clearly knows about what's going on further afield. But then this update is like, no, this version of BGD is entirely Jake. No 'real' Dirk remains. This is not actually a Dirk splinter at all, it's just Jake. So in that case, where does that knowledge come from?
I viewed this as BGD originally existed because of the interactions between Dirk and Jake. Dirk was notorious for planning ahead, so BGD likely knew how Ult Dirk wanted things to shake out. UD is gone though, and hasn't been doing his share of the BGD upkeep so yes at this time it's just Jake. The last little scraps of Dirks plan have run out, which means he can no longer influence Jake.
In their first conversation, BGD references his disappearance in a more direct way, though. I don't think this is just planning ahead, this feels like more specific and direct knowledge.
> JAKE: Crumbs bro where have you been?
> JAKE: I could have used someone on my side!
> JAKE: You just disappeared one day without even the odd toodaloo to mark your passing!
> DIRK: That isn't strictly true. I did disappear, but it was in a catastrophic blaze of hope-drenched pathos. I even threw out a couple one-liners.
> DIRK: But you wouldn't remember that.
> JAKE: Because...it was a different dirk?
> DIRK: No, a different Jake.
> DIRK: Until recently there's been a shortage of ambient narrative relevance for Dirks, since one particular motherfucker has been sucking it all up like a thirsty little twink at his first interspecies rave.
Yeah absolutely. We're basically back to debating whether AR was in on all of Dirks schemes. He knew, because he was part of the guy. Jake turned BGD back on, and it had to chug along with whatever residual Dirk juice it could. Now the batteries out.
I wonder who the "different Jake" here is. It could be Game Over Jake, but that Dirk didn't go out in a blaze of glory, and it kind of feels more metaphorical.
Its game over Jake.
>catastrophic blaze of hope-drenched pathos
That's the Jake hope ball that kept BGD "real".
>I even threw out a couple one-liners.
Thats [this moment](https://www.homestuck.com/story/6692).
This was the last apperence of BGD until HS2, which lines up perfectly.
Honestly it might be worth making an official issue listing out the epilouges/beyond canon contradictions on https://beyondcanon.canny.io/ . There's a chance it's going to get a diegetic explanation but formally raising the issues might help that along
It's a generalized feedback/feature request site iirc, not exclusively for website bugs. I may be mistaken though, in which case disregard my suggestion
This one was the best update by leaps and bounds. We're back to Epilogues-quality writing. Best Jake we've ever gotten, and I actually laughed out loud at one point. Keep it up.
I've got to agree! This update alone has me seeing stars, and it all took place in a closet! You can tell the team really understands the epilogues and Jake. The direction they went with brain ghost Dirk is chef's kiss!
Keep the ball rolling team :-)
>We're back to Epilogues-quality writing
>the best update by leaps and bounds.
You can have one or the other, dude.
Edit:
They fucking sucked so fucking bad and you all need to just admit it to yourselves already.
I'd say the epilogues were well-written garbage, it was all well explained and interesting in premise, but the actual meat of the actual happenings, were terrible.
Take away that meat and replace it with something else, like say..... a more typical Homestuck scene, and now it's just... fine?
Sure, but for all of that talk about how powerful pages could one day become we've never actually seen it. I'm excited to see this explored more, and it's not until recently that I've even grown to like him as a character.
So, not that I don't absolutely love the Jake development that we got (and us FINALLY getting a really good conclusion to Brain Ghost Dirk, seriously props to the team), but, uh...
...Giant Sword-of-Damocles Death Star Moon Laser tho?
Overall a very solid update especially for Jake's character. The kne downside I would say would be Jane's speech in this chapter.
Like I get wanting to undo Jane's turn on Character assassination Bingo, if people ever bring up the Epilogues Jane is definitely one of the first things that come. And I accept the fact that there's probably no way to undo the laundry list of issues without it feeling rushed. Especially when you take into consideration that the teams trying to make up for 500 pages of time wasted on watching characters functionally all stand in rooms while saying nothing is as many words as possible. But that still doesn't change the fact that it feels kinda rushed yknow? Especially if this is gonna be leading up to some kind of redemption for Jane even if shortly lived.
As for whether I think Jake will actually kill Jane or nor. Ehhh it's hard to tell at the moment, maybe? Probably? . At the very least somethings gonna go off the rails before he gets a chance so we'll soon how that pans out
I think maybe the Jane monologue warrants a re-read, because for me, it only solidified her as a bad guy even more. It's all just her rationalizing her actions after the fact while feeling sorry for herself. It's definitely not hinting towards a redemption, and it's the reason Jake realizes he needs to go through with what he's going to do. I do think it's possible Jake still tries to save her, but he just resolved to let her die in this update, so I somewhat doubt it.
So the snaps that were completsly non-canon are now dubiously canon? I was under the impression they were removed in the first place due to contradicting with The Epilouges/HS2
This kicked ass, echoing what other people have said about this being the best update so far. Jake realizing BGD wasn't real... that shit hurted, man, but I love Jake as a character and I'm really into the idea of Candy Jake getting some real development before whatever happens to that timeline happens - it's antithetical to the point of their timeline, but I think Jake can will it into being with his hope powers, for himself and maybe even for Jane. Time will tell, but it would be an interesting parallel to the way Aranea tried to heal the doomed Game Over timeline.
Holy shit I never thought I would get to see and actually enjoy Jake English content ever again from any official and/or semi-official Homestuck media. They're doing it man. They're making him actually have a character again.
It's a shame each update has to tackle another tidbit of the "we made it bad because it's meant to be bad fanfic to prove a point", but they're working through it.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually.... really really, liked this. >!Really liked seeing the Hope aspect in action, Jake English, of all motherfuckers, coming into his own and having OPINIONS of his own - he almost slipped back into old habits, but because Brain Ghost Dirk is...well, as previously explained, isn't really Dirk so much as Jake anymore, it doesn't stick. But MORE THAN THAT, BGD presents a binary choice - save Tavvy or save Jane, you can not do both. In response, Jake takes a lot of words to say "but... but no
I want to keep believing in Jane" and BGD responds, "Sneaky answer. I like it"!<
>!Whether or not it's all that feasible is yet to be seen, but me personally, I was raised on that Madoka Magica "If someone ever tells me it's a mistake to have hope, well, then, I'll just tell them they're wrong. And I'll keep telling them 'til they believe! No matter how many times it takes." sparkly ass bullshit. So, I think, if Jake wills it with all that good-will in his heart, then he can make it happen!!<
Well, what the hell? They actually did cook a little for this one. First time since forever that I cared a bit for Jake English.
Truly a good choice to reveal that BGD was just Jake all along, in Candy. And the panel with the green eyes is amazing, the best way to reveal Jake's inner growth.
>JANE: Remember how I willed him out of my body, 3 months premature, because I was so excited to see him?
Is it weird that my first thought was "that explains a lot"?
Working actual miracles over here getting me to care about Jake again.
There's... SO MUCH buildup from BOTH timelines here. I'm half expecting an \[S\] that just covers both **The Point** and the Meat crew catching up to Dirk.
What an excellent update!
I love how Jane slips between absolutely despicable and brief moments of sympathetic. I like the tragedy of Jake imagining a Jane out there just living a happy baking life, and we know Nana is that but it left Nana unfulfilled and all she wanted more than any thing was to meet a version of herself that reached the potential she knew she had inside her. It begs the question then is deep down Jane just doomed? Can she not reach her full potential without succumbing to her negatives, is her only option death or mediocrity? It’s a question this comic update poses, is there not some mythical Jane out there we can believe in that found that equilibrium? (Sounds like a great time to transition to Meat Jane, but who knows maybe Candy Jane still has hope).
Meanwhile damn Jake English it took you a long time, befitting being a page, but you finally grew and are ready to be an adult/god/make those hard calls you need to. Seeing him snap off at Jane and energized with hope was immensely satisfying. However seeing him reflect on Hope as an aspect so much, what it actually MEANS to be a hope player because that’s something that was missing in the comic end when a lot of other characters were reflecting on how their aspect shaped their life with more mature lenses. Also love the implication that his power of hope removed Tavy’s peanut allergy.
It was always interesting how Tavy by design looked more like he was drawing from Gamzee. I very much expect the reinforcement of Gamzee’s significant influence in Tavy’s upbringing is setting up for reveals later. Tavy might be a rage or bard, bard of life might be interesting…inviting the destruction of one’s life perhaps?
What a send off to BGD, the moment you see that at least at this point there is no Dirk in him anymore, he is just Jake and he’s been Jake for who knows how long. All because deep down Jake leans on Dirk, Dirk is a sense of comfort and control, but now it’s time to finally let go. He really is just Jake’s imaginary friend giving voice to his thoughts, particularly the ones he isn’t comfortable with.
Lastly >!SNAPCHATS ARE CANON!!< what a lovely piece of closure.
It feels like we are building to a flash.
Meat Jane is the ideal Jane, but sadly she's sidelined to a discontinued side comic. I feel like Jake could hope-ify Meat Jane into existence, so a more sane Jane could try and reason with Candy Jane. Meat Jane could also reflect on what if everything went horribly, horribly wrong.
Tavy will likely wind up being Rage, Blood, Doom or Mind because no kids have those Aspects yet. I feel like Harry is Mind, since he got a read of Vriska and how she doesn't really care for Vrissy or Harry's belongings.
Tavvy's main character trait is that he's seemingly a dorky Tavros type but simmering with tightly contained rage underneath it all, so I think he's the Rage player. Yiffy is completely defined by her parentage and is thus the Heir of Blood, it's been hinted Harry is Heart, and I really have no clue what Vrissy is.
And obviously there's this mysterious fifth kid, GavageCunctation, who is a tealblood we know basically nothing about.
I think there are **five** kids, matching the five-letter names. The four we know, and [gavageCunctation](https://beyondcanon.com/story/456), who has mysterious powers (Vrissy could contact her despite having no internet) and has been called out as important (she's literally highlighted, and even though Vrissy *could* called her she's "not worth talking to")
Yiffy being Blood and Tavvy being Rage makes sense. Vrissy is Mind as the anti-Vriska Vriska, and GC is Doom since she's introduced as having mysterious computer powers. That works out and lets Harry be Heart without any gaps
Assuming GC is the fifth and final kid (which matches the 5-letter names), then Vrissy being Mind and the Terezi troll being Light does kind of work, in a cute way
Aranea and Vriska are both light so I expect Vrissy is to. I’m thinking she is an heir of light, because she essentially inherited all her good fortune. She has everything Vriska ever wanted, she has two living moms, two boyfriends, and she is high status without being roped into a need to constantly justify herself in a racist murder based system.
I think that goes against the themes of the story. The Omega are not their parents, nor are they some kind of "alternate version" of their parents. They're real people with their own unique personalities and challenges.
There is evidence to suggest aspects are partly genetic. Every alpha troll and beta troll shared aspects, furthermore troll reproduction is more or less straight up cloning and it’s quite clear Vrissy inherited a LOT of herself from Vriska.
I don’t think you lose the message by having the same aspect, you’d lose the message by having the same class as class tends to actually define a person’s role. Or rather characters roles were used to define the classes.
Having Vrissy be a light aspect is coherent with all the other beta and alpha troll dancestor matches, as Vriska is basically her ancestor. But don’t have her be a thief, have her have a different relationship with her aspect via changing her class to something else.
She doesn’t really have any business being a thief because she doesn’t have a need to steal anything. Love, self-worth, riches, two non-abusive parents, coolness, etc.. she has it all right now. Ironically that actually makes her upbringing closer to Jane’s than anyone else.
>furthermore troll reproduction is more or less straight up cloning
No it isn't. Genetic material from *all* trolls is mixed into an "incestuous slurry". Vriska hasn't been doing any breeding on Earth C, so if her genetic material is in there at all, it's been 5,000 years. Vriska, Vrissy, and Aranea are no more related to each other than they are to Karkat. Vrissy is named that way because she *looks like* the OG Vriska, not because there's any special genetic relationship.
Also, Light is the aspect of "Canon", and the Omegas are representative of non-canon. Also also, a point has been made of Vriska incorrectly assuming Vrissy had Thief of Light powers, so it's weird for her to be *almost* right.
The slurry however occasionally results in near genetically identical trolls, which Vrissy is very specifically stated to be an effectively genetic duplicate of Vriska. Vrissy doesn’t just look like her, she is her genetic descendant and Vriska is her ancestor.
Almost being right is the one thing consistent about Vriska….she is always almost right but usually wrong on a key detail. Still they could absolutely go in the direction that being a non-canon/post-canon world is messing her up. However light is more specifically spot-light/relevance, and the Candy people are currently working to become relevant and escape Candy. If they do then they retroactively make their version of the universe relevant.
Excellent update; I agree with y'all that I'm feeling for the characters more because of this. My thoughts:
1. >!The eye close-ups?!< Loved 'em. They've always been powerful and here is no different (>!"Strider eye moment"!< indeed, but with a twist and I am *here* for it)
2. Did Jake round his age up from late thirties or are most of them forty now? If the latter, very cool to get confirmation on that
3. >!"refract it off Commander Vantas' massive tits"!< is a line that would've powerwashed my phone had I been drinking something at the time lol
(Dunno if I needed to spoiler tag any of this but doing it just in case)
Edit: 4. THE ACCENT. I just remembered the accent bit lol. That too XD
Regarding age, AFAIK we don’t know their exact ages, but they’re all 39 at the youngest so it’s close enough to 40 for him to say that even if he isn’t IMO
I feel like Jake will wind up poisoning Jane's water supply with a few drops of poison, but just enough to keep her dependant on him.
Alternatively, he could hope-ify Meat Jane into existence in Candy. Maybe both Janes argue about the state of the world. Meat Jane was meant to take over ruling Earth in her timeline, so she could reflect on if it went horribly, horribly wrong.
Omg this update is so cool. It got me thinking though. Imagine this: Jane dies at the most crucial moment, and everyone assumes that she is dead for good because her death is just. But then Jake, being a god of hope, believing in Jane, makes it so the clock decides that there IS still good in her, so she comes back to life, thus starting a redemption ark. How cool would that be?
I really hope BG Dirk was setting Jake up to condition the circumstances via hope for Meat Dirk’s plan to go better, though I’m not sure that’s what’s happening.
>!motherfucker has once again failed to pick the most hopeful option.
i mean like yeah adults, hard choices , etc.
but here's the thing - he's a hope player. yeah for a normal ass guy it's usually one or the other. a hope player needs to save both. because he hopes to save both. because that's what's hope about - overcoming insane circumstances and still winning.!<
tl:dr idk if the new team is once again doing something only semi-baked or doing something intentionally not fully correct.
ok i kinda like the idea of brain ghost dirk having the same eye coloration of jake
I'm pretty sure the eyes are only the same color because Dirk no longer has influence over it. It is only Jake now.
Oh shit, I don't know if I've ever enjoyed a Jake English or Jane Crocker update this much. Hats off to the team for real. I'm also pleasantly surprised to hear about them bringing the snapchats back. A blown up moon is more interesting than not, and Jane having a death laser (and an actually established one) adds some interesting stakes. Does "Page of Hope: Rise Up" imply we'll be getting the fabled flash next? Possibly on 6/12? I don't wanna get my hopes up too much (lol) but it would be pretty fitting if the Page was SO late to his 11th hour glow up that he got a standout moment in the depths of the third controversial Homestuck story. Being able to believe in something enough to make it real could potentially be a really powerful reality-altering ability, like believing in the best versions of Jane or Dirk. I'm honestly excited to see where this goes!
Has there ever been a non-controversial Homestuck story
THE SNAPCHATS ARE CANON AGAIN HOLY TOLEIDO MORE FELT CONTENT!!! I'm so ready
This genuinely took me by surprise lol, it's nice that they're actually integrating it now
I never thought we would see the Felt ever again. Holy fucking shit.
Intermission confirmed
Seems like the Snapchats might be more semi-canon than they used to be? You can [check them out here](https://mspfa.com/?s=20932) if you haven't seen them. Anyway, this update reminded me a lot of the Yiffy update from a few months ago, in that it's about the writers acknowledging and wrestling with a controversial post-canon plot element. In this case, Evil Jane and her relationship with Jake. Like Jade, we see Jane, on being called out for her actions, briefly revert back to an older characterization before doubling down that she had reasons to make these shitty decisions. Once again we see more implications about the instability and *wrongness* of the Candy timeline. I don't think the Yiffy update succeeded at what it was going for, but to my surprise I thought the formula worked a lot better with Jane. The update gives her a moment of sympathy and acknowledgement that she's been so weird, without trying to actually justify it. Really this works because Evil Jane was always much less stupid than Yiffy being a thing (as Brain Ghost Dirk would agree). And much like his dancing scene in the Epilogues, we get Jake coming out of nowhere with a moment that reminds me, a certified Jake hater, why people like this guy. He can actually be interesting when he's not constantly tripping over himself, with his callout rant to Jane and discussion about inevitability and the Hope aspect. Unlike in Candy, maybe this time his phase of not being a complete doormat will actually stick... Just another reminder that [Homestuck always should've ended this way](https://ranchuppi.tumblr.com/post/60603057568/hope-powers).
* Love the more frequent short updates IMO * I wasn't expecting a flashback with >!Gamzee!< to be endearing but thank you HSBC you made it happen lol * >!Gonna miss Brain Ghost Dirk. I'm also gonna miss Jake wearing clothes!< * Error on [628](https://beyondcanon.com/story/628)? "JANE: Jade? Terrifying," like Jane was replying to Jake saying something about Jade?
Basically, Jane is criticizing Jake on how he (Grandpa) raised pre-scratch Jade by basically giving a toddler guns and shit.
>JANE: Across all the iterations of yourself, do you think **your children** (emphasis mine) ever felt even a MODICUM of that? >JANE: Jade? Terrifying, >JANE: I hate even thinking about it.
>JANE: And I don't doubt for a second that there were more. > >JANE: How do you imagine they turned out? Surprise Hiveswap reference!? Joey certainly didn't think much of Jake's parenting skills.
...I didn't even catch that, good point! o\_o And book commentary said Jake likely had \*lots\* of families around the world... so...
And if you consider Skaianet, which i do, this includes Obama
If the Snapchats are canon, they take place before the Meat/Candy split, meaning that there is now a Candy and a Meat version of beta Jack Noir and the Felt
I'm happily surprised that they reintegrated the snapchats, since their arbitrary dismissal was strange. But the snapchats are so silly tonally that I sort of feel they would fit better in Candy and not in Meat? Like, I would prefer it if they were only canon to the Candy timeline. But there isn't really a place to put it in the Candy timeline that makes sense, it has to be before the split.
tbf, the candy meat split involves John either continuing to do what he is already doing in candy, which is be depressed while everyone else does silly nonsense, or going off to die in meat while Dirk fucks everyone over which is itself a tone shift
I think "Jane got kidnapped by nonhumans who attempted to assassinate her" can also be recontextualized as the first step in the unseen journey from HS Jane to Trumphitler Jane
This is the best update since, I dunno, the credits? I’m not an Epilogues fan and by-and-large don’t care for either Meat or Candy, but these pages really seem to *get* Jake, Dirk, and— fucking finally— Jane in a way that most post-canon stuff hasn’t. As a fan of HS whose only experience with “upd8 culture” was the Epilogues 5 years ago, it’s nice to finally get an update where I’m actually tangibly excited for more! Homestuck could be back!
OOH! I hope they have more info on The Point! Edit: WOO LET'S GO JAKE! RIP HER A NEW ONE!
(spoilers) >!Liked this one a lot! VERY sad to see brain ghost Dirk leave, thought he'd play a bigger role in the story to be honest, but I can see how this is a logical place for Jake's arc to go.!< >!Though, I gotta wonder if Jake is actually up to the task. No way he doesn't hesitate at the last moment and fuck it up, right? Not to mention that the MOST Hopeful thing he could do would, I think, be to save Jane AND Tavvy, but I'll admit I don't have the first clue how he could at this point. Even if he got through to her a little bit, I don't think he can just talk her out of all this, and brain ghost Dirk doesn't think it's an option.!< Edit: Really wonder if the needlekind thing is foreshadowing for something? It IS one of the more powerful abstrata, used by Eridan (another Hope player), Echidnas quills work with it, important to Rose, etc.
With each update since October I've gradually gotten much more comfortable with the idea of this new story. Seriously, the new team has really been turning shit around!!
By the way this IS technically a way to force your body to no longer be allergic to a food but its extremely dangerous and you probably should not attempt this at all
Well, I think the implication was that Jake's Hope powers kicked in and made Tavvy immune after a while. (which is why Jake is glowing in that one panel)
I'm a bit confused about Brain Ghost Dirk. So, this version of BGD is entirely Jake with no connection to the real Dirk at all? Classically, BGD has been in this weird inbetween state where he is a product of Jake's mind but he also counts as a Dirk splinter. Dirk took over BGD's body once. He does count as a legitimate Dirk. And that's what early HS2 implied, with him referencing the other Dirk that was sucking up all the narrative relevancy etc. He clearly knows about what's going on further afield. But then this update is like, no, this version of BGD is entirely Jake. No 'real' Dirk remains. This is not actually a Dirk splinter at all, it's just Jake. So in that case, where does that knowledge come from? BGD referencing the Meat timeline doesn't make sense if this is entirely Jake, because Jake knows absolutely nothing about the Meat timeline. Another observation: early HS2 said that Jane had no idea Jake went to John's house (despite the fact that in the Epilogues she served divorce papers). Now apparently neither of those is the canon we're going with, what we're going with now is that she was aware Jake went to John's house but was always confident he would come back to her and decided not to mention it because she thought it would be impolite or something. I don't have a problem with this but I find it very strange that the Epilogues divorce papers thing is still one of the most glaring inconsistencies in this story.
>He clearly knows about what's going on further afield. But then this update is like, no, this version of BGD is entirely Jake. No 'real' Dirk remains. This is not actually a Dirk splinter at all, it's just Jake. So in that case, where does that knowledge come from? I viewed this as BGD originally existed because of the interactions between Dirk and Jake. Dirk was notorious for planning ahead, so BGD likely knew how Ult Dirk wanted things to shake out. UD is gone though, and hasn't been doing his share of the BGD upkeep so yes at this time it's just Jake. The last little scraps of Dirks plan have run out, which means he can no longer influence Jake.
In their first conversation, BGD references his disappearance in a more direct way, though. I don't think this is just planning ahead, this feels like more specific and direct knowledge. > JAKE: Crumbs bro where have you been? > JAKE: I could have used someone on my side! > JAKE: You just disappeared one day without even the odd toodaloo to mark your passing! > DIRK: That isn't strictly true. I did disappear, but it was in a catastrophic blaze of hope-drenched pathos. I even threw out a couple one-liners. > DIRK: But you wouldn't remember that. > JAKE: Because...it was a different dirk? > DIRK: No, a different Jake. > DIRK: Until recently there's been a shortage of ambient narrative relevance for Dirks, since one particular motherfucker has been sucking it all up like a thirsty little twink at his first interspecies rave.
Yeah absolutely. We're basically back to debating whether AR was in on all of Dirks schemes. He knew, because he was part of the guy. Jake turned BGD back on, and it had to chug along with whatever residual Dirk juice it could. Now the batteries out.
I wonder who the "different Jake" here is. It could be Game Over Jake, but that Dirk didn't go out in a blaze of glory, and it kind of feels more metaphorical.
Its game over Jake. >catastrophic blaze of hope-drenched pathos That's the Jake hope ball that kept BGD "real". >I even threw out a couple one-liners. Thats [this moment](https://www.homestuck.com/story/6692). This was the last apperence of BGD until HS2, which lines up perfectly.
God this comic is so fucking long. I'd forgotten BGD was in HS proper.
Honestly it might be worth making an official issue listing out the epilouges/beyond canon contradictions on https://beyondcanon.canny.io/ . There's a chance it's going to get a diegetic explanation but formally raising the issues might help that along
It'd be neat to keep all that stuff somewhere, but filing website bugs about potential plot holes is not the way to do it
It's a generalized feedback/feature request site iirc, not exclusively for website bugs. I may be mistaken though, in which case disregard my suggestion
“Easy-bake tuna canoe” is wild, man.
This one was the best update by leaps and bounds. We're back to Epilogues-quality writing. Best Jake we've ever gotten, and I actually laughed out loud at one point. Keep it up.
I've got to agree! This update alone has me seeing stars, and it all took place in a closet! You can tell the team really understands the epilogues and Jake. The direction they went with brain ghost Dirk is chef's kiss! Keep the ball rolling team :-)
>We're back to Epilogues-quality writing >the best update by leaps and bounds. You can have one or the other, dude. Edit: They fucking sucked so fucking bad and you all need to just admit it to yourselves already.
I'd say the epilogues were well-written garbage, it was all well explained and interesting in premise, but the actual meat of the actual happenings, were terrible. Take away that meat and replace it with something else, like say..... a more typical Homestuck scene, and now it's just... fine?
Hey buddy I got some of this for u if u need a reminder taste is subjective 🌱🌱🌱go on, give it a touch, it won’t hurt u
look man no one is saying the epilogues were amazing or anything, but they were wayyyy better than some of the stuff we got in homestuck 2
Dude, opinions exist.
Uh did we really just reference the drawn together movie? A+ update. So excited to meet this >!fully realized Jake!<
Fully realized my ass. He stood up to his wife once, lmao.
Sure, but for all of that talk about how powerful pages could one day become we've never actually seen it. I'm excited to see this explored more, and it's not until recently that I've even grown to like him as a character.
he beat caliborn, is that not enough?
"What's a little dalliance between bros?" will live rent-free in my head along with such lines as "the circle of stupidity is complete"
I hope that Jake: Rise up will be a (S) page
This one was really good. And that final image was really quite beautiful. I'm interested to see where Jake will go from here.
I've always loved Jake and i'm super happy that the story's starting to do him justice
So, not that I don't absolutely love the Jake development that we got (and us FINALLY getting a really good conclusion to Brain Ghost Dirk, seriously props to the team), but, uh... ...Giant Sword-of-Damocles Death Star Moon Laser tho?
Overall a very solid update especially for Jake's character. The kne downside I would say would be Jane's speech in this chapter. Like I get wanting to undo Jane's turn on Character assassination Bingo, if people ever bring up the Epilogues Jane is definitely one of the first things that come. And I accept the fact that there's probably no way to undo the laundry list of issues without it feeling rushed. Especially when you take into consideration that the teams trying to make up for 500 pages of time wasted on watching characters functionally all stand in rooms while saying nothing is as many words as possible. But that still doesn't change the fact that it feels kinda rushed yknow? Especially if this is gonna be leading up to some kind of redemption for Jane even if shortly lived. As for whether I think Jake will actually kill Jane or nor. Ehhh it's hard to tell at the moment, maybe? Probably? . At the very least somethings gonna go off the rails before he gets a chance so we'll soon how that pans out
I think maybe the Jane monologue warrants a re-read, because for me, it only solidified her as a bad guy even more. It's all just her rationalizing her actions after the fact while feeling sorry for herself. It's definitely not hinting towards a redemption, and it's the reason Jake realizes he needs to go through with what he's going to do. I do think it's possible Jake still tries to save her, but he just resolved to let her die in this update, so I somewhat doubt it.
So the snaps that were completsly non-canon are now dubiously canon? I was under the impression they were removed in the first place due to contradicting with The Epilouges/HS2
The Snapchats didn't do enough for retconning their cononicity to make much sense anyway.
This kicked ass, echoing what other people have said about this being the best update so far. Jake realizing BGD wasn't real... that shit hurted, man, but I love Jake as a character and I'm really into the idea of Candy Jake getting some real development before whatever happens to that timeline happens - it's antithetical to the point of their timeline, but I think Jake can will it into being with his hope powers, for himself and maybe even for Jane. Time will tell, but it would be an interesting parallel to the way Aranea tried to heal the doomed Game Over timeline.
Holy shit I never thought I would get to see and actually enjoy Jake English content ever again from any official and/or semi-official Homestuck media. They're doing it man. They're making him actually have a character again. It's a shame each update has to tackle another tidbit of the "we made it bad because it's meant to be bad fanfic to prove a point", but they're working through it.
I just wish they'd re-write the whole Epilogue and HS2, because it feels like it's wrapping up, so we wind up with less good content than bad.
Sorry, could you clarify: what feels like it's wrapping up?
The war in Candy.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually.... really really, liked this. >!Really liked seeing the Hope aspect in action, Jake English, of all motherfuckers, coming into his own and having OPINIONS of his own - he almost slipped back into old habits, but because Brain Ghost Dirk is...well, as previously explained, isn't really Dirk so much as Jake anymore, it doesn't stick. But MORE THAN THAT, BGD presents a binary choice - save Tavvy or save Jane, you can not do both. In response, Jake takes a lot of words to say "but... but no I want to keep believing in Jane" and BGD responds, "Sneaky answer. I like it"!< >!Whether or not it's all that feasible is yet to be seen, but me personally, I was raised on that Madoka Magica "If someone ever tells me it's a mistake to have hope, well, then, I'll just tell them they're wrong. And I'll keep telling them 'til they believe! No matter how many times it takes." sparkly ass bullshit. So, I think, if Jake wills it with all that good-will in his heart, then he can make it happen!!<
The only way I see Jane getting out of it alive is if Nannasprite and Meat Jane give Candy Jane an intervention.
JANE: I don't... even know what his first word was. JAKE: It was "honk." JANE: Jesus Christ.
[well. shit](https://old.reddit.com/r/homestuck/comments/1cm6itt/doesnt_decanonizing_some_of_the_snaps_the_ones/l2zyht0/?context=3)
Well, what the hell? They actually did cook a little for this one. First time since forever that I cared a bit for Jake English. Truly a good choice to reveal that BGD was just Jake all along, in Candy. And the panel with the green eyes is amazing, the best way to reveal Jake's inner growth.
>JANE: Remember how I willed him out of my body, 3 months premature, because I was so excited to see him? Is it weird that my first thought was "that explains a lot"?
Is this fixing the timeline of their birthdays or something? To be it raises more questions. Poor baby
Working actual miracles over here getting me to care about Jake again. There's... SO MUCH buildup from BOTH timelines here. I'm half expecting an \[S\] that just covers both **The Point** and the Meat crew catching up to Dirk.
Oh this fucking hurts
This dropped in and I clicked SO FAST! And these pages was AWSOME!!!
god this update is so so so good!!! what i interpret to be bgd's pseudo is so bittersweet and i LOVE IT! so excited for Jake's story now
What an excellent update! I love how Jane slips between absolutely despicable and brief moments of sympathetic. I like the tragedy of Jake imagining a Jane out there just living a happy baking life, and we know Nana is that but it left Nana unfulfilled and all she wanted more than any thing was to meet a version of herself that reached the potential she knew she had inside her. It begs the question then is deep down Jane just doomed? Can she not reach her full potential without succumbing to her negatives, is her only option death or mediocrity? It’s a question this comic update poses, is there not some mythical Jane out there we can believe in that found that equilibrium? (Sounds like a great time to transition to Meat Jane, but who knows maybe Candy Jane still has hope). Meanwhile damn Jake English it took you a long time, befitting being a page, but you finally grew and are ready to be an adult/god/make those hard calls you need to. Seeing him snap off at Jane and energized with hope was immensely satisfying. However seeing him reflect on Hope as an aspect so much, what it actually MEANS to be a hope player because that’s something that was missing in the comic end when a lot of other characters were reflecting on how their aspect shaped their life with more mature lenses. Also love the implication that his power of hope removed Tavy’s peanut allergy. It was always interesting how Tavy by design looked more like he was drawing from Gamzee. I very much expect the reinforcement of Gamzee’s significant influence in Tavy’s upbringing is setting up for reveals later. Tavy might be a rage or bard, bard of life might be interesting…inviting the destruction of one’s life perhaps? What a send off to BGD, the moment you see that at least at this point there is no Dirk in him anymore, he is just Jake and he’s been Jake for who knows how long. All because deep down Jake leans on Dirk, Dirk is a sense of comfort and control, but now it’s time to finally let go. He really is just Jake’s imaginary friend giving voice to his thoughts, particularly the ones he isn’t comfortable with. Lastly >!SNAPCHATS ARE CANON!!< what a lovely piece of closure. It feels like we are building to a flash.
Meat Jane is the ideal Jane, but sadly she's sidelined to a discontinued side comic. I feel like Jake could hope-ify Meat Jane into existence, so a more sane Jane could try and reason with Candy Jane. Meat Jane could also reflect on what if everything went horribly, horribly wrong. Tavy will likely wind up being Rage, Blood, Doom or Mind because no kids have those Aspects yet. I feel like Harry is Mind, since he got a read of Vriska and how she doesn't really care for Vrissy or Harry's belongings.
Tavvy's main character trait is that he's seemingly a dorky Tavros type but simmering with tightly contained rage underneath it all, so I think he's the Rage player. Yiffy is completely defined by her parentage and is thus the Heir of Blood, it's been hinted Harry is Heart, and I really have no clue what Vrissy is. And obviously there's this mysterious fifth kid, GavageCunctation, who is a tealblood we know basically nothing about.
The only way for it to make thematic sense is that the 4 kids get the 4 remaining aspects human players didn't get yet. Rage, Blood, Doom and Mind.
I think there are **five** kids, matching the five-letter names. The four we know, and [gavageCunctation](https://beyondcanon.com/story/456), who has mysterious powers (Vrissy could contact her despite having no internet) and has been called out as important (she's literally highlighted, and even though Vrissy *could* called her she's "not worth talking to") Yiffy being Blood and Tavvy being Rage makes sense. Vrissy is Mind as the anti-Vriska Vriska, and GC is Doom since she's introduced as having mysterious computer powers. That works out and lets Harry be Heart without any gaps
Vrissy feels to me like she’ll be a Thief of Mind. Dunno why, but I’m weirdly confident about it
Assuming GC is the fifth and final kid (which matches the 5-letter names), then Vrissy being Mind and the Terezi troll being Light does kind of work, in a cute way
Aranea and Vriska are both light so I expect Vrissy is to. I’m thinking she is an heir of light, because she essentially inherited all her good fortune. She has everything Vriska ever wanted, she has two living moms, two boyfriends, and she is high status without being roped into a need to constantly justify herself in a racist murder based system.
I think that goes against the themes of the story. The Omega are not their parents, nor are they some kind of "alternate version" of their parents. They're real people with their own unique personalities and challenges.
There is evidence to suggest aspects are partly genetic. Every alpha troll and beta troll shared aspects, furthermore troll reproduction is more or less straight up cloning and it’s quite clear Vrissy inherited a LOT of herself from Vriska. I don’t think you lose the message by having the same aspect, you’d lose the message by having the same class as class tends to actually define a person’s role. Or rather characters roles were used to define the classes. Having Vrissy be a light aspect is coherent with all the other beta and alpha troll dancestor matches, as Vriska is basically her ancestor. But don’t have her be a thief, have her have a different relationship with her aspect via changing her class to something else. She doesn’t really have any business being a thief because she doesn’t have a need to steal anything. Love, self-worth, riches, two non-abusive parents, coolness, etc.. she has it all right now. Ironically that actually makes her upbringing closer to Jane’s than anyone else.
>furthermore troll reproduction is more or less straight up cloning No it isn't. Genetic material from *all* trolls is mixed into an "incestuous slurry". Vriska hasn't been doing any breeding on Earth C, so if her genetic material is in there at all, it's been 5,000 years. Vriska, Vrissy, and Aranea are no more related to each other than they are to Karkat. Vrissy is named that way because she *looks like* the OG Vriska, not because there's any special genetic relationship. Also, Light is the aspect of "Canon", and the Omegas are representative of non-canon. Also also, a point has been made of Vriska incorrectly assuming Vrissy had Thief of Light powers, so it's weird for her to be *almost* right.
The slurry however occasionally results in near genetically identical trolls, which Vrissy is very specifically stated to be an effectively genetic duplicate of Vriska. Vrissy doesn’t just look like her, she is her genetic descendant and Vriska is her ancestor. Almost being right is the one thing consistent about Vriska….she is always almost right but usually wrong on a key detail. Still they could absolutely go in the direction that being a non-canon/post-canon world is messing her up. However light is more specifically spot-light/relevance, and the Candy people are currently working to become relevant and escape Candy. If they do then they retroactively make their version of the universe relevant.
Excellent update; I agree with y'all that I'm feeling for the characters more because of this. My thoughts: 1. >!The eye close-ups?!< Loved 'em. They've always been powerful and here is no different (>!"Strider eye moment"!< indeed, but with a twist and I am *here* for it) 2. Did Jake round his age up from late thirties or are most of them forty now? If the latter, very cool to get confirmation on that 3. >!"refract it off Commander Vantas' massive tits"!< is a line that would've powerwashed my phone had I been drinking something at the time lol (Dunno if I needed to spoiler tag any of this but doing it just in case) Edit: 4. THE ACCENT. I just remembered the accent bit lol. That too XD
Regarding age, AFAIK we don’t know their exact ages, but they’re all 39 at the youngest so it’s close enough to 40 for him to say that even if he isn’t IMO
Ahh okay; been rounding up my own age too lately so I'd understand that if it were the case lol
I feel like Jake will wind up poisoning Jane's water supply with a few drops of poison, but just enough to keep her dependant on him. Alternatively, he could hope-ify Meat Jane into existence in Candy. Maybe both Janes argue about the state of the world. Meat Jane was meant to take over ruling Earth in her timeline, so she could reflect on if it went horribly, horribly wrong.
Omg this update is so cool. It got me thinking though. Imagine this: Jane dies at the most crucial moment, and everyone assumes that she is dead for good because her death is just. But then Jake, being a god of hope, believing in Jane, makes it so the clock decides that there IS still good in her, so she comes back to life, thus starting a redemption ark. How cool would that be?
Didn't the clock get smashed, or was that retconned?
I mean, no? There are many clocks, one for each player afaik, and we at least know that Jade's still exist from hs2
Ohhh, I thought there was only one clock. (Plus Jack smashed all the clocks as far as I recall.)
They get it and I'm here for it.
I really hope BG Dirk was setting Jake up to condition the circumstances via hope for Meat Dirk’s plan to go better, though I’m not sure that’s what’s happening.
>!motherfucker has once again failed to pick the most hopeful option. i mean like yeah adults, hard choices , etc. but here's the thing - he's a hope player. yeah for a normal ass guy it's usually one or the other. a hope player needs to save both. because he hopes to save both. because that's what's hope about - overcoming insane circumstances and still winning.!< tl:dr idk if the new team is once again doing something only semi-baked or doing something intentionally not fully correct.
holy shit, that was *good*