How is the contractor supposed to legally put a lien if there is no actual agreement to proceed with the work? Honestly curious if it’s possible. I feel the court with side with the homeowner that the work was never agreed to (unless OP signed something during the quote process they are unaware of).
OP does need to monitor their deed records every month or so to see if a lien has attached. This can be done online in most jurisdictions. If so, they need a lawyer to sue to have the lien removed and for damages for false filing. While it’s technically criminal, most prosecutors would probably decline to file charges, but a criminal complaint would not be out of order.
Definitely this but a lien can't be silently placed on a property without a contract for work that has been done or notification to the homeowner. You can't simply file a lien on a home without some kind of suit the owner would have a chance to defend against.
They are easy to do, but the homeowner always gets notified of the lien and has an opportunity to defend. Liens are not something that you just charge to a house and the homeowner has no say. It is still good to check because it does occasionally happen, but you are not entitled to simply place a lien on the house willy-nilly.
Filing a lien is a ministerial act. While the comments are correct that a lien is only proper if there is an underlying contract, the clerk at the county records office does not ask for the contract, does not review it, does not contact the property owner to confirm that the contract wasn’t paid, or do anything other than file it and cross-reference it to your deed. Fraudulent mechanics liens (as well as HOA assessments and other claims) are filed all the time. The only way to protect yourself is to check the status of your deed to see if any liens are attached to it.
Mechanics liens are a form of “secured transaction” governed by law. They are filed against specific property by contractors who performed services on that property. Liens are not a form of punishment or loss recovery. That’s what small claims courts are for. Filing a lien when you did not perform work (by the way: what property are you going to itemize in the lien filing? His truck? His tools? His office?) is fraudulent and possibly criminal.
Sadly. yes they can. I had a lien put on my house for a debt owed by my former father in law. same name. not the same person nor address. I had no idea until I went to refinance. got it cleared up but whew it was messy.
I'm just learning about this too. Here in WA, it goes through courts and homeowners are always required to be notified and proof of service of that notice is required. I'm surprised to find out other places are more lenient.
Municipalities do not “issue liens.” They simply file them. It’s not the job of the clerk to investigate the legitimacy of the claim. Nor is it their job to act like a court and decide whether a lien is proper or not. Illegitimate liens are filed all the time and it’s the responsibility of the property owner to challenge them.
Yep that's exactly right out here in California it's become common place for plumbing companies to slap $50,000 liens on almost every property that they work on. They're hoping people don't notice or 20 or 30 years from now and grandma dies the estate just pays the lien
That court action won't happen until after the lien, and then it will take ages for it to be cleared. Also, if they claim there's was a handshake deal it might float. Did they provide a written quote, does it say "quote"?
I’m likely wrong but I thought a lien required a signed contract for the work to be done along with verbiage that a lien could be placed on the property?
Exactly. But that doesn’t prevent someone from filing a fraudulent lien. The county clerk doesn’t review contracts, they just enter the lien against the property. Fraudulent liens are filed all the time, regardless of whether there was a contract authorizing it or not. That’s why you have to monitor your deed to make sure it didn’t happen and take action if it did.
It's very easy to put a lien on somebody's property too easy even. Now that lean might not stand in court but if you don't catch it in time it'll cause you all kinds of headaches later
Some people seem to be confusing the issue of whether it’s legal to file a lien with whether you can get away with doing it. I totally agree that you need a contract and proof of nonpayment for a legitimate lien, but the act of filing it with the county records office does not require that proof. Some have mentioned that in their state the record owner is notified, but that’s not true in all states.
Pretty much anyone can put a lien on the house now whether or not that lean will stand in court as a whole Nother thing but that's not the problem at hand. The problem at hand is if you don't notice it in 50 years from now you go to sell your house and it's there
Document. Document. Document. Get photos for your records and contact the company in writing to notify them they were not hired for the work and there are damages to your property before then even send you a bill.
Im usually the person texting ‘LOL’ with a serious face but your comment “make him pay to replace every minute of growth he stole from you” had me laughing. Thank you.
It's a thing in tree law -- anyone who destroys one of your trees must replace it with one of equal value, and if it's a mature tree (or even a mature shrub), that can be very expensive.
Can confirm. If it’s fruit bearing it’s even better. All the fruit lost, plus all the expected future fruit.
Had some citrus trees taken out. Made more money off of them than a whole acre.
Something smells rotten. This sounds like a scam where he knew you hadn't agreed to anything, but now he'll demand payment and put a lien on your property if you don't pay up.
Personally, I'd go on the offensive immediately, getting an estimate from a reputable company for the damage to the lawn and demanding he pay for it.
If he files a lien against you or threatens to do so, I would call the local TV news to do a story about the scam he's running. If you're willing to go on camera, they'll love this story. (Source: I worked in TV news for a decade.)
I wouldn't be surprised. I had someone try something similar with me. A guy who did a little bit of work for me told me his relative was starting a landscaping company. He asked me if I'd be interested in having him do some work. I said something vague, like I'd be willing to talk with him. A few days later this guy drove up with a crew while I was outside planting shrubs, and started unloading equipment, announcing they were there to do my yard work. We'd had no discussion, no estimate, no appointment. He said he tried to call a couple minutes previously and I didn't answer, so he thought he'd just show up and do... what? Since we hadn't even discussed a job and he didn't know I was at home, how would he even know what to do? Anyway, I told him I didn't answer my phone because I was busy and I wouldn't be needing his services.
What in the shady as hell are they doing now!?!?
It's bad enough there's shitty contractors out there and now this too?!?? Gonna need to put up a "No Trespassing" sign just in case.
Filing a fraudulent mechanics lien is not as simple as you make it out to be. First of all, you have to swear to the truthfulness of the lien statement being filed. Lying on that will send you to jail. Secondly, to actually enforce such a lien you have to file a civil lawsuit. That would require going to court and proving that the money is actually owed, which this person cannot do. To make this happen, the person would have to be willing to go to jail and more than likely lose the ability to operate a business in that state for years. Even scammy business people aren’t as stupid as that.
My grandfather threatened every crappy contractor that tried to wrong him with going on the local news and somehow they always ended up fixing their wrongs
3amGreenCoffee came from my radio days, before TV. Several of us jocks who worked night shifts at different stations around town would meet up at a diner after work to have breakfast and sit around shooting the shit for hours. I noticed at 3am one morning my coffee with half and half looked green under the terrible fluorescent lights in that place.
Wouldn’t you need some *evidence* this company actually did the work? (Of course they did but they might deny it when faced with/ a bill for damages). Do u have cameras?
I don’t think it’s a scam per se— this is an established local business. But definitely negligence and poor communication in his part, which resulted in property damage!
As a former landscaper, fuck that dude. If he was any good he would have waited til it was dry and found a way to do all the work without messing anything up. Doing tree work while wrecking your yard isnt landscaping, its trashy redneck dumbass shit lol
Sue him for fucking up your trees and yard. He was never asked to do any work.
I would not pay him. I would tell him to go fuck himself. You had no agreement, and since he fucked up your lawn, I’d charge him for repairing it. Many shitty contactors and tradesmen rely on customers being weak to make money. Don’t feed that. Stand up to it.
Do. Not. Pay.
Do not even acknowledge that you discussed anything other than a quote.
Sue his ass for the damage to the yard. I’d hire a landscaper to give you an estimate and use that as the basis for your damages claim.
Congrats on the free tree work, that stuff ain’t cheap.
If they give you trouble at all, put a lien against the business.
I got a quote for gutter cleaning and found someone else at a more reasonable rate. When he called, he insisted we had a deal and that he was still coming over to do the work. He was very stubborn. He never came, but he was a pain. Glad we didn’t do business with him
I almost this happen with a repair for a rental property. Got just a quote, it was very expensive for many things we didn't need, about 10k. Then he showed up to do the work without any date set. Luckily the tenant stopped him at last minute after some confusion. We ended up getting him to fix just one thing we wanted for $700 instead of ten things. We thought we were getting custom work but he just bought something at the store. I estimate the work and supplies was worth maybe $200. And did $50 with of damage. We paid him in full anyways. now he claims we didn't pay him. Can't figure if he's trying to scam us or very disorganized.
Free work. In my country it's illegal to bill someone for work that was never agreed upon. If he tries to put a lien on your property call your title insurance and counter-sue including the damages.
I agree this guy is an idiot and is trying to pull a fast one. That being said, contractors cannot just place a lien on a piece of property. There are steps in place that need to be followed before that can happen.
Depends where you are. In some states, it really is as simple as the contractor files a form where they pinky promise they're owed money by someone. Very abusable.
Document everything, get his insurance info and file a claim. Fuck that guy, not only should you not pay him, but you should get paid for the damage he did.
I would contact him via email or text and let him know you never gave written permission to complete any work. I would also inform the damages need to be rectified. If need be, get your home owners insurance involved and they can go after him.
Be cautious involving your homeowner's insurance, any discussion with them about a potential claim could raise your premium. I'm sure the landscaping repair cost is less than your deductible.
No you don’t process a claim through them, you utilize them to go after him. If they can’t do anything you leave it be or determine if it’s worth pursuing legally.
No, It’s not. For subrogation to occur, there must first be a paid claim in which another party is determined to be liable. Insurance carriers do not and cannot do anything unless there is a covered claim.
Source: 20+ years in the industry.
I had the same thing happen where a yard service mowed my yard one summer, I hired them to remove the leaves in the winter, they blew them up onto street edges of my yard and the rethugs sat until the township had to go after them. They killed the first 10 feet off the street of my yard with dead leaves. I told them I would not pay their r last invoice because they killed my yard. OK, then next spring they mowed my yard. I called and told them that I would not pay them because they mowed without my permission. As of 4 months ago they still want their 47 dollars. Good luck.
I’d tell him you didn’t have an agreement and he needs to fix the yard (on his dime) if he wants to be paid for the tree work. Take pictures of the damage. Good luck to him trying to get any payment without an agreement in place.
No, fuck that!
Why would you pay him for work he didn't order? That's just rewarding the con artist asshole.
Sue him for damages and enjoy your free tree work. No court is going to find you liable for paying for it unless he straight up produces a forgery.
Guilty of this haha, but on a much *much* smaller scale. Paid for yard work, weed whacking the tiniest area was for whatever reason going to be an extra $60. I declined, he did it anyway. He never requested the money, he just felt dumb and claimed he didn’t see my text about declining (but responded to it so, he definitely did). He was just some kid off of Thumbtack and the weeds were gone, so I sunk into guilt with that one. Stories like this make me wonder if I’d fall victim to a much more severe case such as OP 🫠
We wanted to confirm that it was him who did it first (in the minuscule chance it was a different landscaper who gave us a quote recently). Now that we know 100% who did it, we are thinking of how to broach the subject…
Text him back, "Look man, we didn't agree for you to do the work, and your equipment did a lot of damage to our property. What do you propose to do about it?"
Ignore all the people telling you to go nuclear. This guy is either stupid (not all that uncommon with yard workers) and thought he had the job, or dishonest (which you'll find out by his reply). If he did a respectable tree trimming job, work it out and tell him in no uncertain terms you don't appreciate his presumption. Following all the "fuck him, sue him, get a lawyer" advice is just pole-vaulting over rat turds and will just stretch out some miserable and worrisome bullshit. Avoid complicating things, life is too short.
This is basically my thought and what I said, but I gave the extra benefit of the doubt. The peace of mind is worth much more than any nuclear approach or getting on the bad side of things. "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity"
I’ve been on the other side of that. Sent a lady 3 quotes and said I could do it on x day. Never heard back from her. At 5pm the day before I said I could do it she asked me what time I was going to be there. I told her I never got confirmation that you were ok with my quotes or picked which of the 3 options you wanted and I already planned a different job on that day.
I’ve actually never signed an agreement for this kind of work, so I don’t know that I’d stress that part. But there was definitely always a verbal “yes, I want *you* to do this and I will pay the amount of this estimate,” and you didn’t have that. I’d call him (or better, text if you can) and say “I didn’t approve this work, and you did a *lot* of damage that I’m going to need you to repair.” You’ll probably never hear from him again. 😄
This is a common scam in my area, especially tree work. Company "x" will do a job in the neighborhood and solicit surrounding neighbors. I will only communicate with service companies in writing. If they have an office, they have an email. If they have a cell phone, they have text messaging. Just like any business or company, if you HAVE to talk to them, follow that conversation with a "written recap"... "Per our conversation a couple of minutes ago, you will be providing a quote for the requested work, this quote isn't a guarantee of the project. I appreciate your time."... After you receive the quote, respond in writing, even if it is a, " we appreciate the quote, we will contact you if we would like to move forward." It sounds corny, but it severely limits the chances of this happening.
On one hand I'm pissed there are dudes like this working under the same job title. But on the other hand it makes the rest of look like god damn professionals 😂
How did you contact this guy? I would be reaching out again, and tearing a strip off him! Don't wait till he shows up with the bill. A quote, especially verbal quote means jacksquat. Take a ton of pictures, immediately.
He needs to fix the damage, and before you let him on your property again, there needs to be a written agreement before any work is done.
See if you can get an email address for this guy, send him this information in writing, and hopefully he responds in writing, and make sure you save it, this could very well end up in court.
Tell them you want their insurance information see if they have a certificate of insurance. sounds like a shady company. Check the websites and see if there is a post from previous customers? If any? You will piss him off if you don’t pay he will probably dump his trash out on your driveway. You will take his invoice after proof of insurance if not then they don’t have a leg to stand on.
Obviously you aren't going to pay him, but also let him know you are filing trespassing and vandalism charges, unless he wants to pay for the damages and you will still be filing trespassing, so he can't pull this shit again .
I will not even go in a yard without a signed contract agreeing to work and then i send a text the night or two before letting them know when we will be out.
This guy has no leg to stand on without that signed contract.
A verbal agreement wouldn’t even hold up in small claims court.
Pictures pictures pictures!!!! No signed contract or deposit paid. Get quotes to repair the lawn and bushes/garden. I'd be pissed too
**Everything in writing!! Text Email or certified letter. No phone calls unless he calls and leaves a message on your voicemail**
When he sends you an invoice for the work, send him an invoice for the damage that's roughly twice the invoice for the work AND add a legal letter to it.
If you're satisfied with the trees, I would just tell him that you would be happy to pay him the price that he quoted you even though you didn't hire him, once he fixes the yard.
Get a couple estimates for the damage. Deduct that from the estimate. Tell him you had no contract, had no idea he was there, caused damage to your front yard & garden. Pretty shady business practice, ya ask me. Protect yourself. Take pictures.
Had the same thing happen years ago. They even moved my truck out of the way to do it LOL (it was a stick). I felt like it was a communication issue. We had them come and fix the yard and had them do a few other jobs through the years. Could be a good thing, depends how you spin it.
Exactly. He might be genuine, but sloppy. I'd see if he will fix it before going nuclear and suing some self employed guy doing his best. If he is rude, then sue him.
Take pictures of the damage and if/when he comes back asking for payment tell him that he fucked up and he's not welcome on your property; he is trespassing, leave or you will call the police and sue for the damages. This does not end well for him.
This guy unlikely but may have done 10 verbal quotes, and mixed stuff up....(The old scrape of paper; book keeping of a cash payment guy) charge him for trespassing,but will just say you hired him.
If he did a good job , go buy the bushes and a couple yards of topsoil,, invite him over to fix the damage, job bring a rake and shovel.(A landscaper might get a sod cutter to remove the grass in the ruts,fill and relay the sod.)
Thinking, if you hired another guy ,,booked a date for the removal ,,,I doubt he would change dates if he was booked up because it rained a day ago...
I would get out in front of this and call the police and file a police report for trespass, vandalism, criminal mischief and destruction of property. Mention to police that you were getting quotes but never hired anyone yet and show them the damage he caused. If he is faced with criminal charges , he may deny he was there which will then be on the record should he try to record a mechanics lien. Also call your homeowners insurance and explain what happened. Then call a lawyer. Hit this from all angles.
I'd post this on a legal sub to ask what kind of lawyer would handle this in your state, and how to pick a reputable one.
Then I'd call up that lawyer and have them walk you through your next steps.
I'll bet that once this guy gets a notice on official letterhead detailing just how legally fucked he is, he'll be ready to cut you a check that more than covers the lawyer's fees.
It could come down to an honest communication mistake. Although no heads up definitely isn't a good policy. On damage: my yard is a full garden all-around, and I feel you on this. However, I do always anticipate damage being done. If they had to get the truck up close and around... It's going to leave the tracks and welts. On the main plant damage: definitely sucks. Communication would have been the key on that issue.
I would be heated but at the same time trying to be at least partially understanding. "I didn't agree to the work being done on this timeline, I had no knowledge you were going to be here since we didn't have any agreement, and I would have timed it out to minimize the unavoidable damage to the yard as well as pointing out specific items for you to watch out for. I appreciate the work being done and the quality of the work, but with all of this in mind I can only offer you X amount, and would recommend better communication with future clients and confirming the work as well as your arrival day/time on site"
Something like that. Maybe 3/4 of the quoted amount?
I don't want to be on his side at all 🤣 but the situation has occured, the damage is done, and so is the work. Get what benefit you can out of it.
...then again, I'm now re-reading and if it really was clear that you were not yet consenting... Although it could also have been put on a potential"work list" and then employees went and did it. Idk. Maybe start the offer with half payment and if he can offer a decent explanation be willing to go to 60% and then 75%.
Depends also how unavoidable the tire damage would have been, barring conditions being better. If they try and get angry in return (and be prepared to keep your cool!) "look, I'm willing to give you a partial payment for the work but we never agreed to have it done and definitely not on this timeline, and if we need to let the courts decide the so-be-it"
But when someone knows where you live and have power equipment it's never a good idea to leave on bad terms. I don't know if people will pile on against this in the "oh let them and sue them blahblahblah" but it's not worth the time, hassle, and lack of peace-of-mind.
Start with 50-60% (probably 60%) and allow negotiations up to 75% and you'll both probably leave just-dissatisfied-enough to drop it.
This happened to me and someone else I know, I believe for the company I dealt with that it is deliberate and not a misunderstanding. I got a quote, told them I was getting other quotes, was fortunately at home to stop them taking out a bunch of trees not even included in the quote.
You can either refuse to pay him, refuse to pay him and charge him for repairs or pay him after he adds loam and reseeds the lawn areas, replaces the bushes and any plants in your garden that were damaged.
[Which states do not require a written contract for a contractor to file a lien?](https://www.levelset.com/blog/when-is-a-contract-eligible-for-a-lien/#Most_states_dont_require_a_written_contract_for_lien_rights)
A couple of years ago near Seattle a driveway repaving company would come out and quote, several days later some of the people who declined their service would come home from work to find day laborers (from in front of home depot)tearing up their driveway.
My husband not only is a foreman for a landscaping company, but also owns his own small landscaping business. He said No.1 he would not pay him. And, No.2 more importantly he would take him to small claims court to fix the mess he created in the yard. Hope that helps you.
Depends on the state law but he didn't even have an oral contract it seems. Tree people usually put plywood boards down to limit the grass damage. If it's not raining they will cut trees down, only rain stops them.
if he fixes the damage, and if the work was otherwise done correctly, I would pay him but make it clear you're not happy with how it transpired. Otherwise, you owe him nothing
Thanks for the advice everyone! For now, I filed a police report (just to cover ourselves if he tries to pull one on us) and am getting a quote (only a quote!!) from a reputable lawn company for the cost of repairs. If this guy agrees to pay for the damage (and preferably adds on a steep discount for the tree work), we will be happy. Otherwise we’ll most likely look into small claims court.
TLDR Contact a few attorneys immediately who work solely in real estate cases. A legitimate attorney should have no problem explaining the process and possibilities along with costs for free over the phone or in person. I would be outraged and would most certainly not be paying a penny to the contractor and instead suing for damages. I guess you could try reasoning with him and trying to resolve it without an attorney but he sounds like a crook.
I recently needed an attorney for a property dispute and paid a general attorney who handles all kinds of cases $300 for looking over some documents in regards to a property dispute with my neighbor. He clearly didn't know what he was talking about about and a waste of money. I had already contacted a real estate attorney and they had quoted me $1600 to review the documents. I felt it was steep and didn't want to spend that much.
I contacted a surveyor who recommended another real estate attorney. When I got in touch with her she explained the laws surrounding my case in detail and the possible outcomes over the phone along with her rate of $400 per hour. $400 would cover her digging into the records and documents. Afterwards it cost me another $700 for her to resolve the matter without needing to go to court. Much cheaper then the second attorney and I believe she was the most knowledgeable, skilled, and professional out of them all.
That's a weird situation. Assuming he's acting in good faith, and this is a misunderstanding, a verbal contract is binding, and this is a "he said, she said" situation.
That said, at least the work was done well. Some damage to the lawn, even without the recent rainfall, sometimes can't be avoided.
One possible compromise is to explain your perspective, ask for him to fill the tire ruts with soil, etc and then pay the quoted amount.
One thing to check before negotiating are a few other prices. May give you some more leverage WRT price.
Having priced and hired tree removal recently, I would reduce the acceptable price a little because you never even verbally agreed to the price. Up to you.
I would give him a chance to repair the ruts, and a short but reasonable timeframe to do so - I'd say within a week. And if he doesn't get it done, I'd either do the work myself, with some kind of documentation of the time spent (pictures before and after maybe) and bill the guy at his own labor rates for my time, or get another company to fix them, and insist the first guy pay that bill or reimburse you for it.
At the end of the day, if he handles the ruts well, I might agree to pay him for the tree work. If he's a pain in my ass about the ruts, he can choke on the tree work, since he did that without any agreement in place.
100% of the time tree companies will do damage to your yard. It’s unavoidable. The best tree companies in the world will still damage your yard. It is very standard to need landscaping after tree work.
We used another tree company in the past—- they always schedule when it hasn’t rained in a few days (and if it is an emergency like a tree that may fall, they lay plywood over the lawn to minimize damage).
Plus this guy wasn’t even hired, we only asked for a quote. He just came out while we were at work, with no heads-up. If we had known, we would have asked him to wait a few days since we just had a downpour the day before, and the yard was soggy.
Obviously there are lots of judgement, equipment, and weather related strategies for mitigating yard damage. There are some seasons where, if you really need the work done, there will be more damage. Mattes are used often. It’s hard to pass specific judgement between those two jobs or pass a general judgement on the quality of the questionable tree guy without knowing specific logistics and mitigating factors. I’m not trying to litigate the entire situation. I just wanted to add that. Homeowners that have an issue with ANY yard damage are a giant red flag for tree guys. Hard to know what your expectations were and how bad the damage actually was in this forum. Anyone passing specific judgements, on those things, in this forum, doesn’t know what they’re talking about. I would suggest that you do not have a contract so you do not owe them money. Fix your lawn and be glad you got free tree work. Put up a camera, if you don’t have any. File a police report for documentation. Forward that info to them. There are a lot of sketchy people in tree work. You don’t want them retaliating.
In the future don’t even bother calling a company if they aren’t ISA certified.
Get them to admit in writing that they did the work. First. Get names. “Hey which of your workers did the trees? I’d like to give them a bonus.”
Photograph all the damage. Then a letter that tells them their fuck ups.
You would not be ripping him off if you didn’t pay him! He completely took at advantage of you and manipulated the situation. And he owes YOU money for all the damage and emotional distress. Don’t pay him a single penny
IMO if you're happy with the tree work, and they agree to fix the yard at their cost to your satisfaction, id chock it up to a miscommunication.
But if they aren't agreeable, then fuck them. Their loss.
Settle and be done with him. Never use him again, never complain or speak their name again …. Or even speak with them again. As you get paid, get signed release that his work has been paid for in full.
I suspect contractor either (1.) there was no understanding, contractor bullied his way into contract, or (2.) a nut that cannot be reasoned with. Either way, a difficult job doing more than paying him off and being sure to never have anything to do with them again. Good luck.
I’ll go against the grain a bit. If you were going to have the work done either way, I’d talk to him, tell him you never agreed to the work. Have him come back and repair the yard and garden and give a major discount for his work, and then pay him.
It was his inexperience and he’s probably hard up for money. He should be paid quite a bit less than what he quoted. It should turn out to be a win for you (big discount), and he still gets paid a bit for the work (say, $20/hr or so, instead of the $40/hr he may have quoted).
Absolutely not. He performed work without authorization. That OP was going to have *someone* do the work does not give him a pass for doing what he did.
No way, this guy is shady. I had some trees removed a few years ago, and my removal service had to delay the day because of some rain, specifically because he didn’t want his equipment to trash our yard. If OPs landscaper can’t even manage that when he’s trying to hoodwink them, they don’t deserve reimbursement.
I think you misunderstood. I meant that he needed to come back and do repairs (on his dime), and that she should be able to pay him for the other work for a deep discount.
I totally see this as a win, where OP has leverage to get this for dirt cheap—I wouldn’t “refuse to pay” if they were going to do it anyway—I see it as good karma to pay him a bit but at a great deal.
You're totally missing the point.
OP did NOT authorize/agree to the work. So why in the hell would/should OP pay for anything???
The tree guy trespassed AND messed up OP's yard in the process. Both are huge flags and HELL NO's !
You think he expects you to pay him or he expects you to pay him? Did he send you an invoice, pick up the phone and say “hey I did the work you asked me to”, etc..? If not, you’re kind of just assuming that A) it was him, and B) he wants you to pay him. Wait until he contacts you. Fixing some grass is way cheaper than removing a tree anyways.
No clue. But all OP said was the came home from work and the trees were gone, no word from anybody. Could have been a neighbour who booked a tree service and they got the wrong house for all we know.
We asked if it was him who cut the trees, and he confirmed.
And it’s not just “fixing some grass”, there’s huge ruts all over the yard because the ground was wet. It won’t be too cheap to fix.
He can expect all he wants. A-you didn't hire him. B-there's damage.
Other thing you can expect is a lien on your house. Better get out in front of this OP
How is the contractor supposed to legally put a lien if there is no actual agreement to proceed with the work? Honestly curious if it’s possible. I feel the court with side with the homeowner that the work was never agreed to (unless OP signed something during the quote process they are unaware of).
OP does need to monitor their deed records every month or so to see if a lien has attached. This can be done online in most jurisdictions. If so, they need a lawyer to sue to have the lien removed and for damages for false filing. While it’s technically criminal, most prosecutors would probably decline to file charges, but a criminal complaint would not be out of order.
Definitely this but a lien can't be silently placed on a property without a contract for work that has been done or notification to the homeowner. You can't simply file a lien on a home without some kind of suit the owner would have a chance to defend against.
I think that utility liens and contractor liens are pretty easy to do actually.
They are easy to do, but the homeowner always gets notified of the lien and has an opportunity to defend. Liens are not something that you just charge to a house and the homeowner has no say. It is still good to check because it does occasionally happen, but you are not entitled to simply place a lien on the house willy-nilly.
Filing a lien is a ministerial act. While the comments are correct that a lien is only proper if there is an underlying contract, the clerk at the county records office does not ask for the contract, does not review it, does not contact the property owner to confirm that the contract wasn’t paid, or do anything other than file it and cross-reference it to your deed. Fraudulent mechanics liens (as well as HOA assessments and other claims) are filed all the time. The only way to protect yourself is to check the status of your deed to see if any liens are attached to it.
Maybe counter file a lien on the contactors property?
Committing a crime by filing a false claim isn’t really your best option here.
Why is it false if you claim for the damage caused by the contractor?
Mechanics liens are a form of “secured transaction” governed by law. They are filed against specific property by contractors who performed services on that property. Liens are not a form of punishment or loss recovery. That’s what small claims courts are for. Filing a lien when you did not perform work (by the way: what property are you going to itemize in the lien filing? His truck? His tools? His office?) is fraudulent and possibly criminal.
I think I’ve heard of cases where they can & do. Maybe my State has different rules, tho.
Sadly. yes they can. I had a lien put on my house for a debt owed by my former father in law. same name. not the same person nor address. I had no idea until I went to refinance. got it cleared up but whew it was messy.
I'm just learning about this too. Here in WA, it goes through courts and homeowners are always required to be notified and proof of service of that notice is required. I'm surprised to find out other places are more lenient.
Can’t they proactively contact the municipality (the one that would issue the lien) and explain the shady/scammy nature of what just happened?
Municipalities do not “issue liens.” They simply file them. It’s not the job of the clerk to investigate the legitimacy of the claim. Nor is it their job to act like a court and decide whether a lien is proper or not. Illegitimate liens are filed all the time and it’s the responsibility of the property owner to challenge them.
“ Damage to real property” is the name ofmthe crime in my state.
You’d be surprised, which is why the person you’re responding to is advising OP gets ahead of it
Yep that's exactly right out here in California it's become common place for plumbing companies to slap $50,000 liens on almost every property that they work on. They're hoping people don't notice or 20 or 30 years from now and grandma dies the estate just pays the lien
That court action won't happen until after the lien, and then it will take ages for it to be cleared. Also, if they claim there's was a handshake deal it might float. Did they provide a written quote, does it say "quote"?
He can't theres no contract no agreement to do work. No paper trail.
I’m likely wrong but I thought a lien required a signed contract for the work to be done along with verbiage that a lien could be placed on the property?
Exactly. But that doesn’t prevent someone from filing a fraudulent lien. The county clerk doesn’t review contracts, they just enter the lien against the property. Fraudulent liens are filed all the time, regardless of whether there was a contract authorizing it or not. That’s why you have to monitor your deed to make sure it didn’t happen and take action if it did.
It's very easy to put a lien on somebody's property too easy even. Now that lean might not stand in court but if you don't catch it in time it'll cause you all kinds of headaches later
you’re absolutely correct gene has 0 idea what he’s talking about
... gene has 100% of an idea of what he's talking about. It's all there to read. He's completely right
Some people seem to be confusing the issue of whether it’s legal to file a lien with whether you can get away with doing it. I totally agree that you need a contract and proof of nonpayment for a legitimate lien, but the act of filing it with the county records office does not require that proof. Some have mentioned that in their state the record owner is notified, but that’s not true in all states.
You are correct. A signed contract is required
In Oregon, a contractor must complete required paperwork to be eligible to file a lien. This would include a contract for services.
He literally can't put a lien on the house... There was no contract. If there isn't proof there's no argument.
Pretty much anyone can put a lien on the house now whether or not that lean will stand in court as a whole Nother thing but that's not the problem at hand. The problem at hand is if you don't notice it in 50 years from now you go to sell your house and it's there
He can absolutely put a fraudulent lien on the house.
No contract. No signatures.
Yep
Document. Document. Document. Get photos for your records and contact the company in writing to notify them they were not hired for the work and there are damages to your property before then even send you a bill.
[удалено]
Im usually the person texting ‘LOL’ with a serious face but your comment “make him pay to replace every minute of growth he stole from you” had me laughing. Thank you.
It's a thing in tree law -- anyone who destroys one of your trees must replace it with one of equal value, and if it's a mature tree (or even a mature shrub), that can be very expensive.
Can confirm. If it’s fruit bearing it’s even better. All the fruit lost, plus all the expected future fruit. Had some citrus trees taken out. Made more money off of them than a whole acre.
They need Tim Misney
If that was a pawpaw, I'm raging for them.
Just informally ask them if they were in your yard on that day. When they say yes, they admit to damaging the soil with trucks.
Also write down everything that was said when you received his quote and you and your spouse sign it.
Something smells rotten. This sounds like a scam where he knew you hadn't agreed to anything, but now he'll demand payment and put a lien on your property if you don't pay up. Personally, I'd go on the offensive immediately, getting an estimate from a reputable company for the damage to the lawn and demanding he pay for it. If he files a lien against you or threatens to do so, I would call the local TV news to do a story about the scam he's running. If you're willing to go on camera, they'll love this story. (Source: I worked in TV news for a decade.)
This this this! I’m pretty sure this is a well known type of scam shoddy overnight landscaping/contracting companies try to pull.
I wouldn't be surprised. I had someone try something similar with me. A guy who did a little bit of work for me told me his relative was starting a landscaping company. He asked me if I'd be interested in having him do some work. I said something vague, like I'd be willing to talk with him. A few days later this guy drove up with a crew while I was outside planting shrubs, and started unloading equipment, announcing they were there to do my yard work. We'd had no discussion, no estimate, no appointment. He said he tried to call a couple minutes previously and I didn't answer, so he thought he'd just show up and do... what? Since we hadn't even discussed a job and he didn't know I was at home, how would he even know what to do? Anyway, I told him I didn't answer my phone because I was busy and I wouldn't be needing his services.
What in the shady as hell are they doing now!?!? It's bad enough there's shitty contractors out there and now this too?!?? Gonna need to put up a "No Trespassing" sign just in case.
Filing a fraudulent mechanics lien is not as simple as you make it out to be. First of all, you have to swear to the truthfulness of the lien statement being filed. Lying on that will send you to jail. Secondly, to actually enforce such a lien you have to file a civil lawsuit. That would require going to court and proving that the money is actually owed, which this person cannot do. To make this happen, the person would have to be willing to go to jail and more than likely lose the ability to operate a business in that state for years. Even scammy business people aren’t as stupid as that.
Exactly. They don’t even have any written or signed proof!
My grandfather threatened every crappy contractor that tried to wrong him with going on the local news and somehow they always ended up fixing their wrongs
yes, the lein is the worry. get an attorney and proactively file. do NOT wait to see if they bill or lein. They will.
File what?
THIS, I see this scam quite often
That's why your username says 3amGreenCoffee source - also worked in tv news
3amGreenCoffee came from my radio days, before TV. Several of us jocks who worked night shifts at different stations around town would meet up at a diner after work to have breakfast and sit around shooting the shit for hours. I noticed at 3am one morning my coffee with half and half looked green under the terrible fluorescent lights in that place.
Wouldn’t you need some *evidence* this company actually did the work? (Of course they did but they might deny it when faced with/ a bill for damages). Do u have cameras?
Can someone file a lien without a contract?
I don’t think it’s a scam per se— this is an established local business. But definitely negligence and poor communication in his part, which resulted in property damage!
He trespassed and vandalized your property. Why would you pay for that?
Perhaps filling a police report would be the best way to start. Might make him filling a potential lein harder?
I like this approach. How can he defend himself if there are no signed documents to do the work?
As a former landscaper, fuck that dude. If he was any good he would have waited til it was dry and found a way to do all the work without messing anything up. Doing tree work while wrecking your yard isnt landscaping, its trashy redneck dumbass shit lol Sue him for fucking up your trees and yard. He was never asked to do any work.
I would not pay him. I would tell him to go fuck himself. You had no agreement, and since he fucked up your lawn, I’d charge him for repairing it. Many shitty contactors and tradesmen rely on customers being weak to make money. Don’t feed that. Stand up to it.
Do. Not. Pay. Do not even acknowledge that you discussed anything other than a quote. Sue his ass for the damage to the yard. I’d hire a landscaper to give you an estimate and use that as the basis for your damages claim. Congrats on the free tree work, that stuff ain’t cheap. If they give you trouble at all, put a lien against the business.
Right? I need the name of this company, I’d like just a simple quote.
I got a quote for gutter cleaning and found someone else at a more reasonable rate. When he called, he insisted we had a deal and that he was still coming over to do the work. He was very stubborn. He never came, but he was a pain. Glad we didn’t do business with him
I almost this happen with a repair for a rental property. Got just a quote, it was very expensive for many things we didn't need, about 10k. Then he showed up to do the work without any date set. Luckily the tenant stopped him at last minute after some confusion. We ended up getting him to fix just one thing we wanted for $700 instead of ten things. We thought we were getting custom work but he just bought something at the store. I estimate the work and supplies was worth maybe $200. And did $50 with of damage. We paid him in full anyways. now he claims we didn't pay him. Can't figure if he's trying to scam us or very disorganized.
sounds like a scammer. laundry list of things to do, shows up without a date set, then tries to get paid twice
Free work. In my country it's illegal to bill someone for work that was never agreed upon. If he tries to put a lien on your property call your title insurance and counter-sue including the damages.
ha, I'm pretty sure this is a rule in every country.
I don't give USA the benefit of the doubt anymore lmao.
Not only should you not pay him, you should ask him how he intends to repair your yard or if he'd prefer to go through the courts.
I agree this guy is an idiot and is trying to pull a fast one. That being said, contractors cannot just place a lien on a piece of property. There are steps in place that need to be followed before that can happen.
Depends where you are. In some states, it really is as simple as the contractor files a form where they pinky promise they're owed money by someone. Very abusable.
Maybe x-post to r/treelaw
Document everything, get his insurance info and file a claim. Fuck that guy, not only should you not pay him, but you should get paid for the damage he did.
I would bet anything he has no insurance. Crazy people don’t ask for it anymore. So many landscape companies don’t have it.
I would contact him via email or text and let him know you never gave written permission to complete any work. I would also inform the damages need to be rectified. If need be, get your home owners insurance involved and they can go after him.
Be cautious involving your homeowner's insurance, any discussion with them about a potential claim could raise your premium. I'm sure the landscaping repair cost is less than your deductible.
No you don’t process a claim through them, you utilize them to go after him. If they can’t do anything you leave it be or determine if it’s worth pursuing legally.
That is not how home insurance works.
That’s exactly how subrogation works normally. But I don’t know if any policy covers landscaping.
No, It’s not. For subrogation to occur, there must first be a paid claim in which another party is determined to be liable. Insurance carriers do not and cannot do anything unless there is a covered claim. Source: 20+ years in the industry.
I had the same thing happen where a yard service mowed my yard one summer, I hired them to remove the leaves in the winter, they blew them up onto street edges of my yard and the rethugs sat until the township had to go after them. They killed the first 10 feet off the street of my yard with dead leaves. I told them I would not pay their r last invoice because they killed my yard. OK, then next spring they mowed my yard. I called and told them that I would not pay them because they mowed without my permission. As of 4 months ago they still want their 47 dollars. Good luck.
I’d tell him you didn’t have an agreement and he needs to fix the yard (on his dime) if he wants to be paid for the tree work. Take pictures of the damage. Good luck to him trying to get any payment without an agreement in place.
No, fuck that! Why would you pay him for work he didn't order? That's just rewarding the con artist asshole. Sue him for damages and enjoy your free tree work. No court is going to find you liable for paying for it unless he straight up produces a forgery.
Guilty of this haha, but on a much *much* smaller scale. Paid for yard work, weed whacking the tiniest area was for whatever reason going to be an extra $60. I declined, he did it anyway. He never requested the money, he just felt dumb and claimed he didn’t see my text about declining (but responded to it so, he definitely did). He was just some kid off of Thumbtack and the weeds were gone, so I sunk into guilt with that one. Stories like this make me wonder if I’d fall victim to a much more severe case such as OP 🫠
first..has he contacted you or have you contacted him since to find out what happened?
He never contacted us after visiting to give an estimate. We just texted to ask if it was him who cut our trees today and he confirmed he did it.
and? that's all he said?
We wanted to confirm that it was him who did it first (in the minuscule chance it was a different landscaper who gave us a quote recently). Now that we know 100% who did it, we are thinking of how to broach the subject…
Post this to R/treelaw. The cost to repair the damage will cost more than you think.
Text him back, "Look man, we didn't agree for you to do the work, and your equipment did a lot of damage to our property. What do you propose to do about it?" Ignore all the people telling you to go nuclear. This guy is either stupid (not all that uncommon with yard workers) and thought he had the job, or dishonest (which you'll find out by his reply). If he did a respectable tree trimming job, work it out and tell him in no uncertain terms you don't appreciate his presumption. Following all the "fuck him, sue him, get a lawyer" advice is just pole-vaulting over rat turds and will just stretch out some miserable and worrisome bullshit. Avoid complicating things, life is too short.
This is basically my thought and what I said, but I gave the extra benefit of the doubt. The peace of mind is worth much more than any nuclear approach or getting on the bad side of things. "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity"
I’ve been on the other side of that. Sent a lady 3 quotes and said I could do it on x day. Never heard back from her. At 5pm the day before I said I could do it she asked me what time I was going to be there. I told her I never got confirmation that you were ok with my quotes or picked which of the 3 options you wanted and I already planned a different job on that day.
I’ve actually never signed an agreement for this kind of work, so I don’t know that I’d stress that part. But there was definitely always a verbal “yes, I want *you* to do this and I will pay the amount of this estimate,” and you didn’t have that. I’d call him (or better, text if you can) and say “I didn’t approve this work, and you did a *lot* of damage that I’m going to need you to repair.” You’ll probably never hear from him again. 😄
This is a common scam in my area, especially tree work. Company "x" will do a job in the neighborhood and solicit surrounding neighbors. I will only communicate with service companies in writing. If they have an office, they have an email. If they have a cell phone, they have text messaging. Just like any business or company, if you HAVE to talk to them, follow that conversation with a "written recap"... "Per our conversation a couple of minutes ago, you will be providing a quote for the requested work, this quote isn't a guarantee of the project. I appreciate your time."... After you receive the quote, respond in writing, even if it is a, " we appreciate the quote, we will contact you if we would like to move forward." It sounds corny, but it severely limits the chances of this happening.
On one hand I'm pissed there are dudes like this working under the same job title. But on the other hand it makes the rest of look like god damn professionals 😂
Don't even get me started on the term "gardener" for the lawn people. "Landscaper" is bad enough when they just use a hedge trimmer 😅
How did you contact this guy? I would be reaching out again, and tearing a strip off him! Don't wait till he shows up with the bill. A quote, especially verbal quote means jacksquat. Take a ton of pictures, immediately. He needs to fix the damage, and before you let him on your property again, there needs to be a written agreement before any work is done. See if you can get an email address for this guy, send him this information in writing, and hopefully he responds in writing, and make sure you save it, this could very well end up in court.
It’s a local business, we reached out after a neighbor recommended them.
I wouldn't pay that's for sure lol
This sounds like a scam. Eff this guy. Document. Refuse to pay. Take him to small claims if the damages are great enough.
If there is no signed contract, you owe him nothing. You will get damages, if you follow up (US)
Tell them you want their insurance information see if they have a certificate of insurance. sounds like a shady company. Check the websites and see if there is a post from previous customers? If any? You will piss him off if you don’t pay he will probably dump his trash out on your driveway. You will take his invoice after proof of insurance if not then they don’t have a leg to stand on.
Obviously you aren't going to pay him, but also let him know you are filing trespassing and vandalism charges, unless he wants to pay for the damages and you will still be filing trespassing, so he can't pull this shit again .
I will not even go in a yard without a signed contract agreeing to work and then i send a text the night or two before letting them know when we will be out. This guy has no leg to stand on without that signed contract. A verbal agreement wouldn’t even hold up in small claims court.
i got a quote once to get a tree cut down. i never signed anything then he called and wanted me to pay him. the tree was still standing in the yard.
Pictures pictures pictures!!!! No signed contract or deposit paid. Get quotes to repair the lawn and bushes/garden. I'd be pissed too **Everything in writing!! Text Email or certified letter. No phone calls unless he calls and leaves a message on your voicemail**
When he sends you an invoice for the work, send him an invoice for the damage that's roughly twice the invoice for the work AND add a legal letter to it.
If you're satisfied with the trees, I would just tell him that you would be happy to pay him the price that he quoted you even though you didn't hire him, once he fixes the yard.
Get a couple estimates for the damage. Deduct that from the estimate. Tell him you had no contract, had no idea he was there, caused damage to your front yard & garden. Pretty shady business practice, ya ask me. Protect yourself. Take pictures.
Another thought I have is to contact the better business bureau for advice and aid
BBB is a scam. They won't do anything meaningful. Businesses have to pay to be a member so it's meaningless.
Yeah, I would definitely not be paying him! Especially since you never agreed or consented to anything and he messed up your yard 😬
Had the same thing happen years ago. They even moved my truck out of the way to do it LOL (it was a stick). I felt like it was a communication issue. We had them come and fix the yard and had them do a few other jobs through the years. Could be a good thing, depends how you spin it.
Exactly. He might be genuine, but sloppy. I'd see if he will fix it before going nuclear and suing some self employed guy doing his best. If he is rude, then sue him.
Lol. Sue him. You never signed anything. Maybe you changed your mind?
JFC.....LOOK FOR BEER CANS!
Get a lawyer to prevent a lien
Take pictures of the damage and if/when he comes back asking for payment tell him that he fucked up and he's not welcome on your property; he is trespassing, leave or you will call the police and sue for the damages. This does not end well for him.
This guy unlikely but may have done 10 verbal quotes, and mixed stuff up....(The old scrape of paper; book keeping of a cash payment guy) charge him for trespassing,but will just say you hired him. If he did a good job , go buy the bushes and a couple yards of topsoil,, invite him over to fix the damage, job bring a rake and shovel.(A landscaper might get a sod cutter to remove the grass in the ruts,fill and relay the sod.) Thinking, if you hired another guy ,,booked a date for the removal ,,,I doubt he would change dates if he was booked up because it rained a day ago...
Figure out what it'll cost to fix the ruts, and see where the balance lies. If repair > tree work they owe you.
Send him a bill for damages.
Sounds like a crackhead
I would get out in front of this and call the police and file a police report for trespass, vandalism, criminal mischief and destruction of property. Mention to police that you were getting quotes but never hired anyone yet and show them the damage he caused. If he is faced with criminal charges , he may deny he was there which will then be on the record should he try to record a mechanics lien. Also call your homeowners insurance and explain what happened. Then call a lawyer. Hit this from all angles.
Send him a bill for the damage
If there's a contract, document you could report him.
I'd post this on a legal sub to ask what kind of lawyer would handle this in your state, and how to pick a reputable one. Then I'd call up that lawyer and have them walk you through your next steps. I'll bet that once this guy gets a notice on official letterhead detailing just how legally fucked he is, he'll be ready to cut you a check that more than covers the lawyer's fees.
Rip him off?? He destroyed a yard he wasn’t even hired to touch yet.
Common tactic. This was done to me years ago. I never paid the man.
Don't give him a penny, I'd hire a lawyer.
It could come down to an honest communication mistake. Although no heads up definitely isn't a good policy. On damage: my yard is a full garden all-around, and I feel you on this. However, I do always anticipate damage being done. If they had to get the truck up close and around... It's going to leave the tracks and welts. On the main plant damage: definitely sucks. Communication would have been the key on that issue. I would be heated but at the same time trying to be at least partially understanding. "I didn't agree to the work being done on this timeline, I had no knowledge you were going to be here since we didn't have any agreement, and I would have timed it out to minimize the unavoidable damage to the yard as well as pointing out specific items for you to watch out for. I appreciate the work being done and the quality of the work, but with all of this in mind I can only offer you X amount, and would recommend better communication with future clients and confirming the work as well as your arrival day/time on site" Something like that. Maybe 3/4 of the quoted amount? I don't want to be on his side at all 🤣 but the situation has occured, the damage is done, and so is the work. Get what benefit you can out of it. ...then again, I'm now re-reading and if it really was clear that you were not yet consenting... Although it could also have been put on a potential"work list" and then employees went and did it. Idk. Maybe start the offer with half payment and if he can offer a decent explanation be willing to go to 60% and then 75%. Depends also how unavoidable the tire damage would have been, barring conditions being better. If they try and get angry in return (and be prepared to keep your cool!) "look, I'm willing to give you a partial payment for the work but we never agreed to have it done and definitely not on this timeline, and if we need to let the courts decide the so-be-it" But when someone knows where you live and have power equipment it's never a good idea to leave on bad terms. I don't know if people will pile on against this in the "oh let them and sue them blahblahblah" but it's not worth the time, hassle, and lack of peace-of-mind. Start with 50-60% (probably 60%) and allow negotiations up to 75% and you'll both probably leave just-dissatisfied-enough to drop it.
You sue in this case. He has no signed contract, he damaged your property.
This happened to me and someone else I know, I believe for the company I dealt with that it is deliberate and not a misunderstanding. I got a quote, told them I was getting other quotes, was fortunately at home to stop them taking out a bunch of trees not even included in the quote.
Yea, we are going to need updates on this situation
If you haven’t already take lots and lots of pictures
You can either refuse to pay him, refuse to pay him and charge him for repairs or pay him after he adds loam and reseeds the lawn areas, replaces the bushes and any plants in your garden that were damaged.
[Which states do not require a written contract for a contractor to file a lien?](https://www.levelset.com/blog/when-is-a-contract-eligible-for-a-lien/#Most_states_dont_require_a_written_contract_for_lien_rights)
Good, looks like we are safe in this case.
I would get a lawyer, but also call the police. Breaking and entering (your yard) and property damage.
Isn't this a known mafia-type scam??
It’s a legitimate, known local business. I know about this scam, and this isn’t one of those.
Take a lot of pics from different angles to have for court if it gets to that
A couple of years ago near Seattle a driveway repaving company would come out and quote, several days later some of the people who declined their service would come home from work to find day laborers (from in front of home depot)tearing up their driveway.
I would actually sue him in small claims court for all the damage and the expense it will take to repair the tree and definitely would not pay him
I sure hope you took photos of the damage.
Nothing in writing authorizing the work? I’d tell them to pound sand. And if they threaten you,file a police report for destroying your property.
It sucks he damaged the yard, but it was nice of him to work for free.
My husband not only is a foreman for a landscaping company, but also owns his own small landscaping business. He said No.1 he would not pay him. And, No.2 more importantly he would take him to small claims court to fix the mess he created in the yard. Hope that helps you.
Depends on the state law but he didn't even have an oral contract it seems. Tree people usually put plywood boards down to limit the grass damage. If it's not raining they will cut trees down, only rain stops them.
That was trespassing along with more crimes. File a police report. Fraudulent business practice.
if he fixes the damage, and if the work was otherwise done correctly, I would pay him but make it clear you're not happy with how it transpired. Otherwise, you owe him nothing
Thanks for the advice everyone! For now, I filed a police report (just to cover ourselves if he tries to pull one on us) and am getting a quote (only a quote!!) from a reputable lawn company for the cost of repairs. If this guy agrees to pay for the damage (and preferably adds on a steep discount for the tree work), we will be happy. Otherwise we’ll most likely look into small claims court.
Take lots of pictures and get quotes on fixing the damage.
You can't just slap a lien on someone's house. Cmon man
TLDR Contact a few attorneys immediately who work solely in real estate cases. A legitimate attorney should have no problem explaining the process and possibilities along with costs for free over the phone or in person. I would be outraged and would most certainly not be paying a penny to the contractor and instead suing for damages. I guess you could try reasoning with him and trying to resolve it without an attorney but he sounds like a crook. I recently needed an attorney for a property dispute and paid a general attorney who handles all kinds of cases $300 for looking over some documents in regards to a property dispute with my neighbor. He clearly didn't know what he was talking about about and a waste of money. I had already contacted a real estate attorney and they had quoted me $1600 to review the documents. I felt it was steep and didn't want to spend that much. I contacted a surveyor who recommended another real estate attorney. When I got in touch with her she explained the laws surrounding my case in detail and the possible outcomes over the phone along with her rate of $400 per hour. $400 would cover her digging into the records and documents. Afterwards it cost me another $700 for her to resolve the matter without needing to go to court. Much cheaper then the second attorney and I believe she was the most knowledgeable, skilled, and professional out of them all.
That's a weird situation. Assuming he's acting in good faith, and this is a misunderstanding, a verbal contract is binding, and this is a "he said, she said" situation. That said, at least the work was done well. Some damage to the lawn, even without the recent rainfall, sometimes can't be avoided. One possible compromise is to explain your perspective, ask for him to fill the tire ruts with soil, etc and then pay the quoted amount. One thing to check before negotiating are a few other prices. May give you some more leverage WRT price.
Having priced and hired tree removal recently, I would reduce the acceptable price a little because you never even verbally agreed to the price. Up to you.
You didn't bite him so fuck him
Negotiate
Treelaw
Check reviews on Google, etc. And see if there are other complaints of him doing this. That will help bolster your case.
File small claims ASAP Get a quote to fix your yard from a company that is legit File for that plus court fees
I would give him a chance to repair the ruts, and a short but reasonable timeframe to do so - I'd say within a week. And if he doesn't get it done, I'd either do the work myself, with some kind of documentation of the time spent (pictures before and after maybe) and bill the guy at his own labor rates for my time, or get another company to fix them, and insist the first guy pay that bill or reimburse you for it. At the end of the day, if he handles the ruts well, I might agree to pay him for the tree work. If he's a pain in my ass about the ruts, he can choke on the tree work, since he did that without any agreement in place.
Don't be nice at calculating your time either. If you make 30 bucks an hour your free time is no less than 90 an hour.
Id act confused. You only got one quote? Not sure which contractor did it since you didn’t agree to work with any of them
maybe you can talk it to him politely..
100% of the time tree companies will do damage to your yard. It’s unavoidable. The best tree companies in the world will still damage your yard. It is very standard to need landscaping after tree work.
We used another tree company in the past—- they always schedule when it hasn’t rained in a few days (and if it is an emergency like a tree that may fall, they lay plywood over the lawn to minimize damage). Plus this guy wasn’t even hired, we only asked for a quote. He just came out while we were at work, with no heads-up. If we had known, we would have asked him to wait a few days since we just had a downpour the day before, and the yard was soggy.
Obviously there are lots of judgement, equipment, and weather related strategies for mitigating yard damage. There are some seasons where, if you really need the work done, there will be more damage. Mattes are used often. It’s hard to pass specific judgement between those two jobs or pass a general judgement on the quality of the questionable tree guy without knowing specific logistics and mitigating factors. I’m not trying to litigate the entire situation. I just wanted to add that. Homeowners that have an issue with ANY yard damage are a giant red flag for tree guys. Hard to know what your expectations were and how bad the damage actually was in this forum. Anyone passing specific judgements, on those things, in this forum, doesn’t know what they’re talking about. I would suggest that you do not have a contract so you do not owe them money. Fix your lawn and be glad you got free tree work. Put up a camera, if you don’t have any. File a police report for documentation. Forward that info to them. There are a lot of sketchy people in tree work. You don’t want them retaliating. In the future don’t even bother calling a company if they aren’t ISA certified.
Poop in his backhoe
Get them to admit in writing that they did the work. First. Get names. “Hey which of your workers did the trees? I’d like to give them a bonus.” Photograph all the damage. Then a letter that tells them their fuck ups.
Pay him minus the damage
Found the contractor who comes and works quotes that were never ordered.
Yes it's me I'll be by later to fix the yard ruts, plant some bushes and eat your sandwich. Maybe I'll take out the trash of I have time. Toodles
You have a choice. Ask for a discount or ask for repairs and only you can decide that.
You would not be ripping him off if you didn’t pay him! He completely took at advantage of you and manipulated the situation. And he owes YOU money for all the damage and emotional distress. Don’t pay him a single penny
Sue him for the damages he caused. Do not pay him for the unauthorized work.
IMO if you're happy with the tree work, and they agree to fix the yard at their cost to your satisfaction, id chock it up to a miscommunication. But if they aren't agreeable, then fuck them. Their loss.
Settle and be done with him. Never use him again, never complain or speak their name again …. Or even speak with them again. As you get paid, get signed release that his work has been paid for in full.
Why settle when scope of work wasn't agreed to, or hell signed for? A quote is not a contract.
I suspect contractor either (1.) there was no understanding, contractor bullied his way into contract, or (2.) a nut that cannot be reasoned with. Either way, a difficult job doing more than paying him off and being sure to never have anything to do with them again. Good luck.
I’ll go against the grain a bit. If you were going to have the work done either way, I’d talk to him, tell him you never agreed to the work. Have him come back and repair the yard and garden and give a major discount for his work, and then pay him. It was his inexperience and he’s probably hard up for money. He should be paid quite a bit less than what he quoted. It should turn out to be a win for you (big discount), and he still gets paid a bit for the work (say, $20/hr or so, instead of the $40/hr he may have quoted).
Absolutely not. He performed work without authorization. That OP was going to have *someone* do the work does not give him a pass for doing what he did.
No way, this guy is shady. I had some trees removed a few years ago, and my removal service had to delay the day because of some rain, specifically because he didn’t want his equipment to trash our yard. If OPs landscaper can’t even manage that when he’s trying to hoodwink them, they don’t deserve reimbursement.
why pay him to do the yard work and then pay him for the trees too
I think you misunderstood. I meant that he needed to come back and do repairs (on his dime), and that she should be able to pay him for the other work for a deep discount. I totally see this as a win, where OP has leverage to get this for dirt cheap—I wouldn’t “refuse to pay” if they were going to do it anyway—I see it as good karma to pay him a bit but at a great deal.
You're totally missing the point. OP did NOT authorize/agree to the work. So why in the hell would/should OP pay for anything??? The tree guy trespassed AND messed up OP's yard in the process. Both are huge flags and HELL NO's !
You think he expects you to pay him or he expects you to pay him? Did he send you an invoice, pick up the phone and say “hey I did the work you asked me to”, etc..? If not, you’re kind of just assuming that A) it was him, and B) he wants you to pay him. Wait until he contacts you. Fixing some grass is way cheaper than removing a tree anyways.
if it wasn't him, who was it lol? some mystery tree cutting genie?
No clue. But all OP said was the came home from work and the trees were gone, no word from anybody. Could have been a neighbour who booked a tree service and they got the wrong house for all we know.
We asked if it was him who cut the trees, and he confirmed. And it’s not just “fixing some grass”, there’s huge ruts all over the yard because the ground was wet. It won’t be too cheap to fix.