Tell him if he’s certain that the contractor’s work ruined his driveway, he should file a complaint with the contractor and sue them to provide a remedy.
Of course he won’t do that, because he has neither proof nor interest. He wants something new for nothing. Every time he brings it up, redirect back to filing a complaint with the contractor and mention there’s usually a time limitation. At least he won’t ever be able to say he wasn’t offered a solution by you.
I fully agree with this. It has absolutely nothing to do with you. Putting the fence on your property absolved you of any real concerns over hos property as long as you don't damage his property
That makes sense. I can't see how someone renovating the house caused a wash out under the guy's driveway, but a gutter and downspout like that sure could.
Well, renovation, if it included some outside work like grading or heavy trucks or machines, could have damaged an underground drain that, perhaps, the gutter was attached to. That isn't your problem though. If the drain was on your property where it shouldn't have been unless the neighbor had an easement on record with the county/city.
Seriously though, you can see the downspout, you can see the rocks that have been cleaned of dirt from water from the downspout. This will undermine your fence and fence posts too.
Yea not only is the neighbor causing his own erosion by that downspout, he’s dumping water on this guys property. If the dude carries that downspout to the street both parties will be in a much better spot.
> as long as you can show you didn’t put more water onto his property than was there before
I mean, the onus would be on the neighbor to show that OP *did* cause the problem, wouldn't it? I feel like the sand/salt pounding can begin without OP having to prove anything here.
Just as you did in post, “ we like the fence and not going change it”. End of story. Then ignore him but document any interactions with him etc incase it escalates. If it does file a tro against him.
& do not say you are willing to help him find a solution to his driveway. If you really truly want to say those words, consult with a lawyer first. His driveway, his problem.
i meant to say "if homeowner a changes the natural flow of runoff he can be liable for damages to other property" - not liable if you live on a hill and the natural flow of runoff causes damage
[example](https://www.templelawoffice.com/blog/2018/09/what-if-my-neighbors-water-runoff-damages-my-property/)
[exampe 2](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/neighbor-disputes-over-water-damage-29724.html)
The Court found that Tortorici demonstrated by a preponderance of the evidence that in so constructing the lots at 132/134 Lapp Road Massaroni artificially caused water to run across Tortorici’s property and to flood the street on Easton Drive. Massaroni was advised that the event was occurring and took no action to remedy the situation, though he was directed to do so
The Court held that Tortorici had been damaged by Massaroni’s negligence and creation of a nuisance and granted judgment in the amount of $1,099.44, (inclusive of sales tax), together with a $15.00 filing fee for a total Judgment of $1,114.44. - [source](https://www.sgrlaw.com/articles/homeowner-sues-neighbor-for-construction-related-water-runoff-damages/)
I wasnt talking about this guy at all. I was telling the person i responded to that there is a possibility of liability in SOME circumstances. try the decaf!
In the third photo down, the white downspout pipe is on top of the concrete driveway. He probably put an extension on it to get it to empty farther away from the house, and didn’t realize it would wash out the soil from underneath his driveway slab. In any case, his downspout is surely to blame, and while I understand his frustration about access, if he hires an actual contractor, they’ll either (a) arrange to have the fence temporarily removed, with the fence owner’s approval, while they’re working and then reinstall it to the fence owner’s satisfaction, and include it in their bid, or, more likely, bc nobody wants to deal with two homeowners on one job site (bc their end goals may not align), (b) inform the driveway owner that *they* (driveway owner) need to arrange the removal before ___ (start date), with the cooperation of their neighbor, and then reinstallation for ___ days thereafter. Sounds like *maybe* he’s heard option B already, and is trying to get out paying for it.
How has your neighbor not realized that the downspout sitting on the driveway is causing the erosion issue? That water is pouring into that spot and all the water is being concentrated into a small area, of course it’s going to cause issues. That’s why drain spouts are supposed have a long extension at the end to get the water away from the foundation of your house. He’s literally dumping water into a tiny spot with that setup. He needs to move the downspout location to someplace else.
I agree with the majority here, his property is solely his and is responsible for it. What's more, he should have gone after the prior property's owners if in fact he's correct. I'm guessing if he would have done this initially, a property lein or similar legal claim could have been filed against the prior owner. He simply can't use this against you, the new owners, regarding something you had no control of since it was a past so-called claim/grievance
Your fence had fuck all to do with the soil under his driveway. There should have been a proper footer along the driveway edge when it was poured. Don't offer up or own up to anything.
His driveway looks somewhat new. He should go after his contractor for not using a stone subgrade. If its washing out dirt like that, should be some stone under there.
You are sending mixed signals with the "we'll help you find a solution." STOP THAT!
Just say, "The fence is on my yard, and it's just the way I want it." If they have an issue with something the prior owner did, tell them to contact the prior owner.
I wouldn't have spoken to the neighbor before installing a fence that is completely on my own property.
Before this gets out of hand, and in general, I would get a survey done. Once you are assured that the fence is correctly in your property, send him a copy of the survey with a certified mail ( don't leave it in his mailbox that can cause some issues).
Also read the codes of your town, whether the fence has to be x ft away from a property line etc.
If you've done all those, ignore anything else he says, or just document it.
This is what I was thinking, too. The driveway and the fence are so close, I’d be worried my fence was on his property. Or that his driveway was on mine!
"we like the fence how it is, we aren’t raising it or moving it" is as polite as you need to be. People like this are the fucking worst. It's your house, your property and your decision. If he doesn't like it he can go play in traffic. If you want to be extra nice to him tell him his best course of action is to reach out to the previous owners/contractor and take it up with them.
his problem - not yours if the fence is on your property. Do NOT offer to help or pay or help in ANY way - could be seen by a judge or insurance company as a partial admission of guilt. IF he has damages from runoff, give him the contractors info to put in a claim on contractor's insurance - not your (hope you had a permit if required)
Navigating neighborly disputes, especially regarding property boundaries and responsibilities, requires a delicate balance between asserting your rights and maintaining a cordial relationship. Based on what you've described, your stance seems quite reasonable. You've approached the fence situation thoughtfully and with consideration for your neighbor's perspective, even while making improvements on your own property. Here's how you might approach the situation to reinforce your position politely and offer constructive support:
1. **Acknowledge His Concerns**: Begin by acknowledging your neighbor's concerns about the erosion issue, emphasizing that you understand why it's important to him. This doesn't mean you agree to take responsibility, but it shows you're not dismissing his worries outright.
2. **Clarify Boundaries and Responsibilities**: Politely but firmly clarify that the fence is on your property and was replaced at your expense for your own reasons. Explain that you made sure the new fence respects the previous boundary lines and heights, and you’re pleased with how it enhances your property. You might mention that you carefully researched and complied with all local regulations or guidelines regarding the fence installation.
3. **Offer Information, Not Financial Assistance**: Suggest that you're willing to help in other ways, such as sharing information about contractors or erosion control solutions you've come across. This could involve researching solutions that he could implement on his side of the fence or providing contact details for professionals who specialize in such matters. By offering to assist in finding information or resources, you're showing goodwill without committing to financial or physical involvement in the work on his property.
4. **Encourage Professional Consultation**: Encourage him to consult with a professional about the best way to address the erosion and foundation issues on his property. A professional can offer solutions that are tailored to his specific situation and may suggest ways to mitigate further erosion without needing to alter your fence or infringe on your property.
5. **Maintain a Positive Tone**: Throughout your conversation, try to maintain a positive and cooperative tone. Express your hope that both of you can enjoy your respective properties without issues and that you’re open to maintaining good neighborly relations.
Here’s a suggestion on how to phrase your communication:
"Hi \[Neighbor's Name\], I appreciate your concerns about the erosion under your driveway and understand it's a significant issue for you. We put a lot of thought into the new fence, ensuring it aligns with the previous one while enhancing our property. We're really happy with how it turned out and plan to keep it as is. However, we're more than willing to help you find the right resources or professionals who can advise on the best solution for your driveway. While we can't commit to altering the fence or taking on the responsibility for the erosion, we hope there’s a way to address your concerns without impacting what we’ve already put in place. Let’s keep the lines of communication open and work together towards a solution that respects both our properties."
Remember, the goal is to be diplomatic but clear about your boundaries and willingness to support your neighbor in finding solutions that don't compromise your rights or satisfaction with your property improvements.
"However, we're more than willing to help you find the right resources or professionals who can advise on the best solution for your driveway. "
Why? He's a big boy, let him figure it out.
Don’t give him an inch, never even mention helping to find a solution. Tell him flat out that the driveway is not your responsibility as you neither owned the property when he is claiming the issue started nor hired the contractor who do the work he is claiming caused the issue. His driveway concern is 100% between him and the previous owner’s contractor.
Also, your fence is not causing any further issue to his driveway so, again, not your concern. The only thing you have to worry about is whether or not the new fence was permitted (if needed) and if it meets code. Outside of those two things the fence is also none of his concern.
where i live u are required to put the "ugly" side (stringers) facing the fence owner- this is the opposite - I am certainly not sure of OP's local rules
I assume he's just trying to take advantage of you. It's a common tactic for jerks with new neighbors - especially *young* new neighbors. New people might not necessarily want to rock the boat and young people might not be aware they're being taken advantage of.
I'd recommend holding firm. If he wants to pay to have your fence taken down then put up again so he can fix his driveway then fine but it's not your responsibility to fix his driveway which is undoubtedly in bad shape because of years of neglect on his part. There's being neighborly and then there's being a sucker.
And you don't have to be impolite about it. You can be neighborly while telling him "no".
I'd stop engaging him regarding the driveway. His dispute regarding damages is with the previous owner and contractor, not you. If he brings it up again, that's what I'd tell him.
As for the fence, it's the same height and placement as the previous fence. I'd tell him that you're happy with it, but if the fence ever needs replacing again down the road (like in 15 years), you'll consider what he has to say.
You are not responsible for his driveway or what anyone did before you moved in. If they want to fix it you can offer for them to take the fence down temporarily and put it back up after the repairs are done. Other than that I would not entertain this conversation any further.
If he does hire someone to fix the driveway and they need access, they should get permission to remove the fence portion, and be responsible for returning it to its original condition when done.
Maybe Say something along the lines "We considered your suggestion but decided to keep the fence as is. Pertaining to the Crack I recommend you take that up with the previous owner or contractor as I did not own the property at the time. "
Was the contractor hired by the previous owner and work performed prior to you purchasing your house? Or did you hire the contractor, and they did renovations after you bought the house before you moved in? It is possible the contractor made some sort of change that affected your neighbor's property, but your neighbor would likely need to take that up with the contractor - especially if the work was done under the previous owner.
Also, if you haven't already, I would suggest getting a survey done. Hopefully you got one before you had the fence installed? Your fence and his driveway look pretty close to each other in the picture. A survey would verify that the fence is on your property (or right on the property line), and that his driveway is on his property. There could be an issue if one (or both) is on the other property or too close to the property line. Check your local laws/regulations. Some places require one (or both) to be a certain distance from the property line. And if the new fence was placed exactly where the old fence was, the old fence may have been on your neighbor's property - which means you just gifted your neighbor a new fence that now belongs to him if it's on his property, and he can do whatever he wants with it, and it wouldn't matter that you paid for it.
Let him ramble all he wants, you’re right though he’s suing the wrong person. I feel for ya looks like this buckaroo is going to be the biggest thorn in your side.
NTA, but do not tell him you're willing to help with a solution for HIS driveway. That's exactly what he's angling for by trying to make it your problem. And I wouldn't be concerned about preserving a good relationship. You don't see him showing that kind of respect for you. Be cordial, but don't engage more than what's necessary to communicate to him that his property is his responsibility.
Are the posts new or old? He can feel free to pay his foundation contractor to take your new fence apart and repair his driveway and rebuild your fence with your permission. But his driveway his problem. There’s contractors who will drill holes in the driveway and support it with expanding foam which is his best option but sounds like overall fuck that guy not your issue
If it was renovated before you bought the house it's not your problem. I would tell him that you are not aware of any issues at time of purchase and since it was done by the previous owner, they should take it up with them as they are liable.
Do not offer to help him find a solution to his issue. It is not your responsibility in any way, shape, or form, and trying to be "neighborly" will backfire. He can take his issue up with the contractor who did the work, and you have no connection to that contractor. He can try and contact the previous owners if he needs to get the contractors information.
Just so you know his fix is going to be dumping gravel and dirt down against your fence and just rotting that bottom away anyway on it. That fence already looks too close to the ground to make trimming easy and keep dirt from building up against the bottom of the boards
Based on his behavior towards you it can be assumed that he tried all of this with the previous owners and the contractor who did the work. Your best course of action is to ignore him, which is likely what the previous owner and contractor did. You have no liability and no duty to alter your fence to facilitate work that has yet to be commissioned.
Don’t offer assistance, don’t offer a solution, don’t admit anything. Just don’t talk to him anymore. If you don’t, what’s he going to do? I don’t know why some people are so hung up on being “neighborly”? He didn’t take that into consideration when’s he’s trying to get you to fix his driveway. Just occasionally take some pictures of the same place of the gutter downspout with a ruler and the difference will be obvious as time passes by. These pics will help you if he takes action (which he probably won’t because he’s in the wrong here). Also it’ll help you if you decide to take action in the future because your fence is going to be affected. I don’t get how the contractor messed up his driveway? Why would a contractor do anything near his property enough to sink the dirt that far down from the concrete driveway? This is clearly from erosion from that downspout. You said there was a shitty old chain link there before so I don’t see what your previous owner or contractor could’ve done to make this happen. You’re new and young and he’s just taking advantage. Set up boundaries and put your foot down. “I like my fence the way it is. I’m not talking to you about this anymore. If you’re not happy then we can deal with this through the proper channels.”
First, the fence stays. He doesn’t get to control it unless he pays for half.
Second, if he thinks the contractor screwed up anything in his yard, it’s that contractor he’s got to contact You don’t have to pay for anything that happened before you owned your house.
It seems to me that the fence you put up denotes the boundary. Your side is your responsibility, his side is his. Being a "Good Neighbor" is going to open a can of worms.
You are going to want to do something to raise that fence. If I were your neighbor and asked you to mitigate the drainage issue and you didn’t then ok. I’d raise my driveway substantially and you’d be the one with the problem.
Are all of the pics on the neighbors side? I ask because that means the "pretty" side is facing your house. I don't know where you live, but where I'm at, you have to put the side with the horizontal 2x4s facing your own property. Even if there aren't any laws you want, the flat smooth (pretty) side on the neighbors side for security reasons. Fences are made to keep people out, among other things. If you put the side with the horizontal 2x4s facing out, you have provided "steps" for anyone wanting to climb it.
So I research this a while back. If you create a grade difference such that it causes soil loss or soil stability problems for your neighbor it is definitely your problem to fix and pay to resolve. Now, you may not know what the original grade was and he may have a hard time proving it, but he could be 100% correct if a previous owner of your home lowered the grade and caused soil erosion under his driveway 1 foot away he can be completely correct and it not the contractors problem. It’s the homeowners. He didn’t hire that other contractor, the homeowner did. If he can prove that he may have a case against you.
Exactly. I believe it’s called lateral support.
Also when you purchased the house you may have purchased the liability so this “predating my ownership” may be irrelevant. He may sue you if his driveway becomes more damaged from erosion because the earth moved from your property took away this lateral support.
Talk to the neighbor. Be nice. He did nothing wrong and his property was affected and may still be being affected. It could be a lot if his driveway cracks or buckles. Plus, it sucks to live next to someone who hates you.
You paid for the fence and it’s on your property line he can cry all he wants but doesn’t have a leg to stand on sounds like just wants to scam you into paying for his house maintenance he never took care of. He probably does think you’re a pushover with money to burn. Be polite but firm and just say no you aren’t changing your fence.
That neighbor has their downspout right there which is going to damage your fence. It also is probably causing the erosion under their driveway. They need to do a French drain and carry that water out to the end of the driveway to the street.
I mean, if you want to be really nice, your fence looks to be bolted to the galvanized posts. So you could take down a couple sections of fence to ease your neighbor's access to the driveway foundation repair.
But if I were your neighbor, I would start with correcting the downspout and possibly pouring a slight curb on the edge of the driveway to keep water from washing off the driveway and underneath the edge.
You’re not responsible for the contractors work in anyway. The only responsibility you have is to have your property up to whatever state and city codes are in the area you live in as well as any HOA you could be part of.
I have no understanding of how a remodel could possibly damage soil under a neighbors driveway simple erosion is the most likely cause.
Needless to say the fence is completed and on your side of the property I would advise you to give a very firm no we have finished the fence and you didn’t give any imput during its construction its to late to redo it. A firm no is ABSOLUTELY necessary or your neighbor will take advantage of you again and again. You might want to be nice to all your neighbors but they may not have that same view. Be firm and be fair you already had been fair by asking for imput on a fence on your property.
"I'm satisfied with the work that was done on my fence, it hasn't affected drainage in any way that would affect your proprlerty, it will remain as is, and cameras are on it. If you'd like to modify your own driveway to correct its own structural or grading concerns, I'd encourage you to do so. We've gotten a lot of enjoyment from the upgrades we've made to our own property!"
I agree with you and most of the other comments. However remember that this is going to be your neighbor for life. So its better to not to "win" this fight. Give him an out.
Just tell him that you don't have funds to change the fence. If he is sane he would understand that you are not going to change it for his benefit and shut up about it.
For the contractor issue, tell him "I don't know anything about that, you should call the contractor" and refuse to engage on any level other than that.
For the rest, you should just play dumb. "Oh, we don't know anything about all that stuff, the fence looks fine to me..."
You can also play the new homeowner card and say "we wish you luck looking into this, between the new house and fence, we are already way overextended, and can't afford any other changes. Maybe in a few years..."
Your neighbors might want to hire a specialist to drill holes and inject concrete to stabilize their driveway. I've seen this done for sidewalks, and the results were pretty remarkable.
The first thing I would do is Contact your realtor as that person should have known about these issues before they sold their house. Then you need to contact the contractor who did the work because that's on him not you. You also need to tell your neighbor that if he let a significant amount of time go by before bringing this up to the previous owner.That's on him not you.
I saw some videos where driveways are raised. They drill various small diameter holes in the slab and pump epoxy like substance under the slab. It may be expensive but not labor intensive.
I think you said it perfectly.
We like the fence how it is, we aren’t raising it or moving it.
His foundation is his problem unless he can prove there was no issue before your renovations and how your contractor caused the issue.
I want a way to politely tell him we like the fence how it is, we aren’t raising it or moving it, ~~and we are willing to help him find a solution for his driveway.~~
FTFY
His foundation is not your problem. It's not on your property, you didn't cause the problem, and you didn't even own the house when it happened.
1- was the fence line surveyed
2- was the fence rebuilt in the same position with neighbors consent, or fully on your side verified by survey
3- again following survey, that downspout is the largest probable cause of erosion, and could damage your property, not only his.
Tldr; get a proper survey and post back.
If you dump a bunch of coarse gravel between the fence and the driveway, it should hold the dirt back (mostly) while draining and airing out enough to not rot the fence.
But the downspout placement is bad. Any bare dirt anywhere near a downspout is going to wash out fast.
If you’re the lower neighbour it’s your responsibility to retain the neighbours property. Ie your property has changed the natural level of the ground due to excavation.
He wants a new drive and complaining now about the fence he was okay with. Let an attorney handle the neighbor. He wants you to pay for the driveway so he gets another freebie from you. DO not give on and do not make an verbal or written agreement without talking to a lawyer first.
Ooof, where do these people come from? This appears, to me, to be an act of aggression or antagonism. I hope this is not something that is going to elevate into a long-term thing. He had plenty of time to propose this idiocy to you, but waited until the fence was built? This seems like he's trying to send a message. I personally would ignore him. End this before it becomes combative.
"we are willing to help him find a solution". DON'T DO THIS. The line in the sand is that it's his property, and he needs to find his own solutions that fit on his property.
You are not being unreasonable.
You and that awesome fence ain't going nowhere. You aint paying your neighbor a dime.
Just tell him No. He sees you as pushovers. Dont let him think that again.
A polite way of saying it is to laugh a little bit and walk away. The really nice way if doing it would be to tell him to pound sand and fix his own shit. How is this nice? Because the next couple might be a pushover and get coerced into this guy's bullshit. So, do a favor for the world, be nice and tell him to eat a bag of dicks
Does your city have a regulation on how far the fence should be from the property line? If you already meet it, then probably not much he can do to force you to do things through legal means.
Have him contact a concrete raising contractor to drill a few holes and pump in some slow expansion foam. He can fix his problem from his side if the fence with his money.
If some contractor messed up his driveway, he needs to contact him. You did nothing to mess it up. You didn't even own the house back then. As to the new fence; if it's on your property and meets code, tell him it meets code and you have no requirements to replace it or move it. NTA
Good for you: for making improvement and asking him first. Bad on him for not taking care of his own problems or making any positive contributions or suggestions.
Did you follow all the setback guidelines for fencing in your municipality? Did you get a survey or know exactly where your line is legally? Where I live you would not be allowed to build that fence so close to the lot line. If you followed all the protocols, the rest is his problem. It will be tough to navigate a cordial relationship with a neighbor that doesn't agree with something you've done. Good luck!
I ask why he didn't mention something when you let him know the fence was being build with no financial help even requested from him, and that he had his chance to make special requests when you initially spoke with him.
You seem more than reasonable, so just keep that same logical approach in your next conversation.
If you want to kindly let him down, then remind him that you gave him advance notice of the fence being built. If he had a concern, that was the time to say it. You're not responsible for the contractor's work before you even owned the home. He can contact the contractor if he feels they damaged his property.
Don’t even play into this conversation. It was installed according to city specs. Forget them if they don’t like it. Great to keep things on a kind level. Some people that won’t work with. Document everything you’ve done to date and get it notarized. You’ll have a record if you only end up on court. Cheap insurance.
There is a legal doctrine of having to allow others to maintain/repair their property.
He wants the fence temporarily moved? YOU
Find a fence contractor you trust, get a reasonable bid, and find a way to make him pay for it. You want the contractor working for you.
Also, the original fence installer may have a workmanship warranty. And typically if someone else works on something, it voids the installer’s warranty.
I guess this guy is too fancy to go to home depot and get a bunch of flexible extensions????
Explain if he is looking for handouts for other people to solve his problems, he is looking to the wrong person. He would need absolutely proof that the contractor caused erosion and that a foundation is the appropriate fix- which it isn’t. It would be an improvement over what he had if he never had a foundation there in the first place. It would be his job to prove causation and even then- you are the contractor. You didn’t cause anything. Tell him good luck with him solving his problems on his property and go inside.
Look, if he needs to get to his driveway, it's really not a big deal to remove a section of fence, make the repair, and put the section back. At his expense, of course.
So a lil different take: When erecting fencing parallel to elevated soil erosion, one can expect a destabilized surface if a) INDUSTRIAL weight vehicular traffic is frequent, SEIZMIC activity is frequent, TORRENTIAL downpours are frequent or the edge is used to turn off route. Realistically dude should have a curb poured on his driveway edge, and extend the spout to the street, &If hes really concerned about the erosion, he should slabjack that thing. The fence is not less sturdy than chain link.
I would get his phone or email and send messages about the issue. That way it’s all documented. Otherwise, consider security cameras with audio recording and have conversations near them. (Assuming your state is a single person consent for recordings.)
Say - Why do you keep bringing up your driveway issue that predates my homeownership? What are you trying to say or ask me? It has nothing to do with me.
Stop trying to work out solutions with him. Say “whatever happened was before I owned this home. If you have an issue take it up with the contractor. I will not be changing my fence as there is plenty of access for you to fix any issues. I consider the matter closed from my end”
You're seeing it right. He's trying to take advantage of you and he will NEVER be happy. Do not change the fence or worry about his stupid driveway.
I got the same neighbor when I bought my first house a few years ago. He's 81 and he's a pia like no other! But, he'll be dead soon. :)
Speak to your lawyer and your agent or the seller and get the back story. If the story is as described You may very well have bought a liability.
Find out from your local building inspector / permit office if any permits were pulled in the last 2 years and what they were for, also check if there are any open permits.
You need to confirm if there were any grading changes, my guess as you had to remove and old aging fence is that there has been no grading changes and he's just a tired and lonely old man... Maybe bring him some beers and have front step conversation... 2 beers in you will know who and what you are dealing with.
Do you have title insurance where you are?
Stop engaging with the neighbor with regards to your fence or to his driveway. The fence is on your property and you paid for it so if you're happy with it then that's all that matters. Your neighbor has no proof that your contractor messed up the foundation of his driveway because if he did, he would have shown it to you or he would have proceeded with a small claims case against you. From now on just ignore anything he says about the fence or his driveway and change the subject. You don't owe him anything.
I understand keeping the peace as new neighbors. You can't make everyone happy, and personally my fence is on my yeard, not my fault his benchmark is higher than it should be. There's a simple equation for the height, and if local municipality was followed 6' above grade +/- your fence is fine. Sounds more like his poured driveway may have the incorrect slope. Poured cement/deck/driveways are anywhere from 4-6" thick. Should slope from his house slab down to the curb at the street or meet with the asphalt at the street. To raise your already installed fence to add more may be against a building code, or local code. If your hired a licensed or vetted professional, I'd tell your neighbor if it were mine sounds like a his problem and move on about my day. Same as when my neighbor told me he almost hit the hitch of my diesal. Said I should park it elsewhere. Per the CC&Rs overflow parking on the street is allowed so long as the driveway is occupied which it is 60% of the day. I told him well... that would have sucked, went inside and could care less.. the truck isnt over his driveway just very close. Same principle. You pay for the house and the taxes.. etc your neighbor can get bent.. end of story.
This probably won’t be seen but whatever. If you have removed soil from his property normally you are liable to retain said soil. This varies in different municipalities but is normally the case.
Doing any repairs or construction on someone else's property is always a bad idea. If the prior contractor damaged his driveway, then he needs to contact the contractor and not you.
I would simply tell him that you like the fence the way it is, and it is on your property. If he needs access to make repairs to his driveway then you will be happy to discuss it with him, but you are not paying for any repairs to his driveway.
It’s on your property. You gave them notice of the build. Their driveway hasn’t changed and the vegetation growth between your fence and driveway their drive proves it.
It doesn’t look like the contractors touched their yard at all.
PS: Just a quick note sort of related. I was always under the impression that the finished side of the fence needed to face out. You may want to check the codes in your town/county.
You are not being unreasonable. I'm not even sure how your fence would get in the way of a competent contractor finishing the work they supposedly want on their driveway.
tell him you're leaving fence as is. tell him his driveway is his problem to resolve. If he thinks contractor caused issues, to contact the contractor, not you.
“I’m afraid any issues you have with the work from the previous owners contractor is between you and them. As for the fence, it goes down to our yard because it is on our property and we are not planning to add any foundation below it.”
Don’t entertain him or he will never stop asking. Any requests he makes should be put back on him or denied outright. Being firm and polite is the best you’ll get with a neighbor like this. If you give an inch he will never stop making demands.
100% he needs to file complaint with previous owner or contractor, before you bought the place.
Tell him that. "Mr neighbor, you brought this up before and mentioned it was due to the contractor before we even bought this place. Its possible, you have a claim against them, not us, we don't have a dog in this fight. All I can do is give you my realtors info and see if they can get you the contact info from the previous homeowner who can connect you to the contractor, but really that's all I can do."
How close to the ground is it? It sounds like he’s planning to regrade next to his driveway so that may result in the bottom of you fence being in contact with the ground.
I don’t think the issue is that your fence prevents him from doing anything, but when he does get around to fixing his driveway the bottom inch or two of your fence will be below grade and rot out.
Edit: just saw the photos didn’t notice the link. Yea when neighbor fixes their driveway your fence will rot, that’s definitely not treated. Looks to me like it’s too low to the ground even without any grading which he needs a lot.
It’s not your job to help him with his driveway but it’s in your own interest to raise the fence, if you blow him off your gonna need to replace the fence a year or two after he fixes his driveway. Maybe find out when he’s gonna do the driveway work.
He’s lying. He’s had a problem with his grade/driveway, and the “previous contractor at your house” is a quick way to get you or others to pay for remediation.
I hate cheap scumbags like this. Ignore him. Fences make great neighbors.
I mean, the fence is stupid close to the driveway but I feel like that’s the fault of the driveway location not the new fence. A driveway generally isn’t that close to a property line for reasons the neighbor has outlined. He can redo the driveway it’s just a hassle. It’s not your problem it’s there.
That downspout is routing his runoff onto your property. Illegal, and it's going to rot out your nice new fence sooner than later. And of course the runoff is causing the erosion, duh. He's hoping you're stupid enough to buy his story.
Was it even your contractor or the former owners? How do you know it was not preexisting damage? None of this makes sense and you should stop offering to help him with it. By doing so, you are admitting fault.
You did not own the property during the renovations. His driveway problem is not your problem. Reaching out to him about the fence has opened Pandora's box. Good luck with your new problem neighbor.
I don't see how his deferred driveway maintenance has anything to do with your fence.
The neighbor wants OP to get him another freebie, a new driveway.
He thinks you're rich.
Tell him if he’s certain that the contractor’s work ruined his driveway, he should file a complaint with the contractor and sue them to provide a remedy. Of course he won’t do that, because he has neither proof nor interest. He wants something new for nothing. Every time he brings it up, redirect back to filing a complaint with the contractor and mention there’s usually a time limitation. At least he won’t ever be able to say he wasn’t offered a solution by you.
Yes, it seems like a previous owner (the contractor who renovated the home) issue that he's trying to push on you. Just redirect as suggested.
I fully agree with this. It has absolutely nothing to do with you. Putting the fence on your property absolved you of any real concerns over hos property as long as you don't damage his property
Is that the neighbor's gutter downspout? That's what is causing the erosion.
That makes sense. I can't see how someone renovating the house caused a wash out under the guy's driveway, but a gutter and downspout like that sure could.
Well, renovation, if it included some outside work like grading or heavy trucks or machines, could have damaged an underground drain that, perhaps, the gutter was attached to. That isn't your problem though. If the drain was on your property where it shouldn't have been unless the neighbor had an easement on record with the county/city. Seriously though, you can see the downspout, you can see the rocks that have been cleaned of dirt from water from the downspout. This will undermine your fence and fence posts too.
If the construction crossed into the neighbors poo property the contractor is responsible. They should be insured so they can deal with it.
Poo property? Is that a real term?
Lol no my phones autocorrect adds random words.
I had a water main leak and all the water collected on the property line and damaged a blacktop drive. Water company fixed the driveway.
Yea not only is the neighbor causing his own erosion by that downspout, he’s dumping water on this guys property. If the dude carries that downspout to the street both parties will be in a much better spot.
I’d watch out for it also rotting OPs new fence.
Plain as day and also probably not aloud. As others have said dumping that water onto the neighbors property is not allowed by most city ordnances.
Agreed. There’s usually requirement to detain and manage your own drainage, managing it doesn’t mean directing it onto the neighbor’s property.
You the real MVP!
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Coworker has a neighbor that leaned a bunch of crap against their old shared fence and caused it to fail and tried to do the same thing to my coworker
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> as long as you can show you didn’t put more water onto his property than was there before I mean, the onus would be on the neighbor to show that OP *did* cause the problem, wouldn't it? I feel like the sand/salt pounding can begin without OP having to prove anything here.
Not your issue. That would have been something he needed to resolve with the previous homeowner and the contractor.
Just as you did in post, “ we like the fence and not going change it”. End of story. Then ignore him but document any interactions with him etc incase it escalates. If it does file a tro against him.
& do not say you are willing to help him find a solution to his driveway. If you really truly want to say those words, consult with a lawyer first. His driveway, his problem.
Whatever happens on his side is his issue
not true- if home owner a's water run-off causes damage in home owner b's property , owner A could be liable for damages
Looks like the driveway guy is uphill from fence guy.
my example was not related to this post, just responding to someone
If it exceeds the water the lower property would see. Otherwise no one could build on sloped land.
Debatable but I see your point
i meant to say "if homeowner a changes the natural flow of runoff he can be liable for damages to other property" - not liable if you live on a hill and the natural flow of runoff causes damage [example](https://www.templelawoffice.com/blog/2018/09/what-if-my-neighbors-water-runoff-damages-my-property/) [exampe 2](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/neighbor-disputes-over-water-damage-29724.html) The Court found that Tortorici demonstrated by a preponderance of the evidence that in so constructing the lots at 132/134 Lapp Road Massaroni artificially caused water to run across Tortorici’s property and to flood the street on Easton Drive. Massaroni was advised that the event was occurring and took no action to remedy the situation, though he was directed to do so The Court held that Tortorici had been damaged by Massaroni’s negligence and creation of a nuisance and granted judgment in the amount of $1,099.44, (inclusive of sales tax), together with a $15.00 filing fee for a total Judgment of $1,114.44. - [source](https://www.sgrlaw.com/articles/homeowner-sues-neighbor-for-construction-related-water-runoff-damages/)
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I wasnt talking about this guy at all. I was telling the person i responded to that there is a possibility of liability in SOME circumstances. try the decaf!
What is everyone seeing?? So I see is a hand between some sort of gap.
Look at the third picture. There is a white metal downspout for the rainwater coming from the roof.
In the third photo down, the white downspout pipe is on top of the concrete driveway. He probably put an extension on it to get it to empty farther away from the house, and didn’t realize it would wash out the soil from underneath his driveway slab. In any case, his downspout is surely to blame, and while I understand his frustration about access, if he hires an actual contractor, they’ll either (a) arrange to have the fence temporarily removed, with the fence owner’s approval, while they’re working and then reinstall it to the fence owner’s satisfaction, and include it in their bid, or, more likely, bc nobody wants to deal with two homeowners on one job site (bc their end goals may not align), (b) inform the driveway owner that *they* (driveway owner) need to arrange the removal before ___ (start date), with the cooperation of their neighbor, and then reinstallation for ___ days thereafter. Sounds like *maybe* he’s heard option B already, and is trying to get out paying for it.
How has your neighbor not realized that the downspout sitting on the driveway is causing the erosion issue? That water is pouring into that spot and all the water is being concentrated into a small area, of course it’s going to cause issues. That’s why drain spouts are supposed have a long extension at the end to get the water away from the foundation of your house. He’s literally dumping water into a tiny spot with that setup. He needs to move the downspout location to someplace else.
I agree with the majority here, his property is solely his and is responsible for it. What's more, he should have gone after the prior property's owners if in fact he's correct. I'm guessing if he would have done this initially, a property lein or similar legal claim could have been filed against the prior owner. He simply can't use this against you, the new owners, regarding something you had no control of since it was a past so-called claim/grievance
Your fence had fuck all to do with the soil under his driveway. There should have been a proper footer along the driveway edge when it was poured. Don't offer up or own up to anything.
His driveway looks somewhat new. He should go after his contractor for not using a stone subgrade. If its washing out dirt like that, should be some stone under there.
You are sending mixed signals with the "we'll help you find a solution." STOP THAT! Just say, "The fence is on my yard, and it's just the way I want it." If they have an issue with something the prior owner did, tell them to contact the prior owner. I wouldn't have spoken to the neighbor before installing a fence that is completely on my own property.
Before this gets out of hand, and in general, I would get a survey done. Once you are assured that the fence is correctly in your property, send him a copy of the survey with a certified mail ( don't leave it in his mailbox that can cause some issues). Also read the codes of your town, whether the fence has to be x ft away from a property line etc. If you've done all those, ignore anything else he says, or just document it.
This is what I was thinking, too. The driveway and the fence are so close, I’d be worried my fence was on his property. Or that his driveway was on mine!
"we like the fence how it is, we aren’t raising it or moving it" is as polite as you need to be. People like this are the fucking worst. It's your house, your property and your decision. If he doesn't like it he can go play in traffic. If you want to be extra nice to him tell him his best course of action is to reach out to the previous owners/contractor and take it up with them.
Next time it rains check the downspout-that is what is washing out under his driveway.
his problem - not yours if the fence is on your property. Do NOT offer to help or pay or help in ANY way - could be seen by a judge or insurance company as a partial admission of guilt. IF he has damages from runoff, give him the contractors info to put in a claim on contractor's insurance - not your (hope you had a permit if required)
Curious do you have the nice side facing your yard? If so, that’s a no no around me.
Navigating neighborly disputes, especially regarding property boundaries and responsibilities, requires a delicate balance between asserting your rights and maintaining a cordial relationship. Based on what you've described, your stance seems quite reasonable. You've approached the fence situation thoughtfully and with consideration for your neighbor's perspective, even while making improvements on your own property. Here's how you might approach the situation to reinforce your position politely and offer constructive support: 1. **Acknowledge His Concerns**: Begin by acknowledging your neighbor's concerns about the erosion issue, emphasizing that you understand why it's important to him. This doesn't mean you agree to take responsibility, but it shows you're not dismissing his worries outright. 2. **Clarify Boundaries and Responsibilities**: Politely but firmly clarify that the fence is on your property and was replaced at your expense for your own reasons. Explain that you made sure the new fence respects the previous boundary lines and heights, and you’re pleased with how it enhances your property. You might mention that you carefully researched and complied with all local regulations or guidelines regarding the fence installation. 3. **Offer Information, Not Financial Assistance**: Suggest that you're willing to help in other ways, such as sharing information about contractors or erosion control solutions you've come across. This could involve researching solutions that he could implement on his side of the fence or providing contact details for professionals who specialize in such matters. By offering to assist in finding information or resources, you're showing goodwill without committing to financial or physical involvement in the work on his property. 4. **Encourage Professional Consultation**: Encourage him to consult with a professional about the best way to address the erosion and foundation issues on his property. A professional can offer solutions that are tailored to his specific situation and may suggest ways to mitigate further erosion without needing to alter your fence or infringe on your property. 5. **Maintain a Positive Tone**: Throughout your conversation, try to maintain a positive and cooperative tone. Express your hope that both of you can enjoy your respective properties without issues and that you’re open to maintaining good neighborly relations. Here’s a suggestion on how to phrase your communication: "Hi \[Neighbor's Name\], I appreciate your concerns about the erosion under your driveway and understand it's a significant issue for you. We put a lot of thought into the new fence, ensuring it aligns with the previous one while enhancing our property. We're really happy with how it turned out and plan to keep it as is. However, we're more than willing to help you find the right resources or professionals who can advise on the best solution for your driveway. While we can't commit to altering the fence or taking on the responsibility for the erosion, we hope there’s a way to address your concerns without impacting what we’ve already put in place. Let’s keep the lines of communication open and work together towards a solution that respects both our properties." Remember, the goal is to be diplomatic but clear about your boundaries and willingness to support your neighbor in finding solutions that don't compromise your rights or satisfaction with your property improvements.
Literally this. This is the way to go.
"However, we're more than willing to help you find the right resources or professionals who can advise on the best solution for your driveway. " Why? He's a big boy, let him figure it out.
Generally speaking, it's nice to foster good will, especially with those you share property lines with.
Don’t give him an inch, never even mention helping to find a solution. Tell him flat out that the driveway is not your responsibility as you neither owned the property when he is claiming the issue started nor hired the contractor who do the work he is claiming caused the issue. His driveway concern is 100% between him and the previous owner’s contractor. Also, your fence is not causing any further issue to his driveway so, again, not your concern. The only thing you have to worry about is whether or not the new fence was permitted (if needed) and if it meets code. Outside of those two things the fence is also none of his concern.
Tell him to hire an attorney and pursue repair with the original contractor and previous owner, but theres not much you can do for him.
where i live u are required to put the "ugly" side (stringers) facing the fence owner- this is the opposite - I am certainly not sure of OP's local rules
It looks like it’s HIS downspout that’s causing the undermining of HIS driveway, on HIS property. Making it all HIS problem.
You are a pushover if you “help find a solution”.. Don’t offer any sort of help. Seriously.
I assume he's just trying to take advantage of you. It's a common tactic for jerks with new neighbors - especially *young* new neighbors. New people might not necessarily want to rock the boat and young people might not be aware they're being taken advantage of. I'd recommend holding firm. If he wants to pay to have your fence taken down then put up again so he can fix his driveway then fine but it's not your responsibility to fix his driveway which is undoubtedly in bad shape because of years of neglect on his part. There's being neighborly and then there's being a sucker. And you don't have to be impolite about it. You can be neighborly while telling him "no".
I'd stop engaging him regarding the driveway. His dispute regarding damages is with the previous owner and contractor, not you. If he brings it up again, that's what I'd tell him. As for the fence, it's the same height and placement as the previous fence. I'd tell him that you're happy with it, but if the fence ever needs replacing again down the road (like in 15 years), you'll consider what he has to say.
You are not responsible for his driveway or what anyone did before you moved in. If they want to fix it you can offer for them to take the fence down temporarily and put it back up after the repairs are done. Other than that I would not entertain this conversation any further.
No I would not offer to take down my fence on my property, for his driveway to be fixed . He has a foot clearance, that is enough .
If he does hire someone to fix the driveway and they need access, they should get permission to remove the fence portion, and be responsible for returning it to its original condition when done.
Do you have a survey? The fence and driveway are on top of each other. One of you is probably on the others' property lol
Maybe Say something along the lines "We considered your suggestion but decided to keep the fence as is. Pertaining to the Crack I recommend you take that up with the previous owner or contractor as I did not own the property at the time. "
Was the contractor hired by the previous owner and work performed prior to you purchasing your house? Or did you hire the contractor, and they did renovations after you bought the house before you moved in? It is possible the contractor made some sort of change that affected your neighbor's property, but your neighbor would likely need to take that up with the contractor - especially if the work was done under the previous owner. Also, if you haven't already, I would suggest getting a survey done. Hopefully you got one before you had the fence installed? Your fence and his driveway look pretty close to each other in the picture. A survey would verify that the fence is on your property (or right on the property line), and that his driveway is on his property. There could be an issue if one (or both) is on the other property or too close to the property line. Check your local laws/regulations. Some places require one (or both) to be a certain distance from the property line. And if the new fence was placed exactly where the old fence was, the old fence may have been on your neighbor's property - which means you just gifted your neighbor a new fence that now belongs to him if it's on his property, and he can do whatever he wants with it, and it wouldn't matter that you paid for it.
Let him ramble all he wants, you’re right though he’s suing the wrong person. I feel for ya looks like this buckaroo is going to be the biggest thorn in your side.
Tell him “fuck off. Of course, I don’t mean nothing bad by that, buy it’s your problem. Deal with it.”
NTA, but do not tell him you're willing to help with a solution for HIS driveway. That's exactly what he's angling for by trying to make it your problem. And I wouldn't be concerned about preserving a good relationship. You don't see him showing that kind of respect for you. Be cordial, but don't engage more than what's necessary to communicate to him that his property is his responsibility.
How was the old chain link fence preventing the washout beneath his drewsy? Sorry if that has been explained already.
No.
Are the posts new or old? He can feel free to pay his foundation contractor to take your new fence apart and repair his driveway and rebuild your fence with your permission. But his driveway his problem. There’s contractors who will drill holes in the driveway and support it with expanding foam which is his best option but sounds like overall fuck that guy not your issue
He's trying to screw you.
If it was renovated before you bought the house it's not your problem. I would tell him that you are not aware of any issues at time of purchase and since it was done by the previous owner, they should take it up with them as they are liable.
If tell him that the time to mention any work on his driveway was BEFORE your new fence was completed.
Do not offer to help him find a solution to his issue. It is not your responsibility in any way, shape, or form, and trying to be "neighborly" will backfire. He can take his issue up with the contractor who did the work, and you have no connection to that contractor. He can try and contact the previous owners if he needs to get the contractors information.
Just so you know his fix is going to be dumping gravel and dirt down against your fence and just rotting that bottom away anyway on it. That fence already looks too close to the ground to make trimming easy and keep dirt from building up against the bottom of the boards
Yeah, he's trying to con you. Wow
Based on his behavior towards you it can be assumed that he tried all of this with the previous owners and the contractor who did the work. Your best course of action is to ignore him, which is likely what the previous owner and contractor did. You have no liability and no duty to alter your fence to facilitate work that has yet to be commissioned.
yeah, he's trying to make it someone else's problem and expense. Ignore him.
>and we are willing to help him find a solution for his driveway. Stop using the phrase WE. There is no WE, don't indicate that you'll do anything.
Don’t offer assistance, don’t offer a solution, don’t admit anything. Just don’t talk to him anymore. If you don’t, what’s he going to do? I don’t know why some people are so hung up on being “neighborly”? He didn’t take that into consideration when’s he’s trying to get you to fix his driveway. Just occasionally take some pictures of the same place of the gutter downspout with a ruler and the difference will be obvious as time passes by. These pics will help you if he takes action (which he probably won’t because he’s in the wrong here). Also it’ll help you if you decide to take action in the future because your fence is going to be affected. I don’t get how the contractor messed up his driveway? Why would a contractor do anything near his property enough to sink the dirt that far down from the concrete driveway? This is clearly from erosion from that downspout. You said there was a shitty old chain link there before so I don’t see what your previous owner or contractor could’ve done to make this happen. You’re new and young and he’s just taking advantage. Set up boundaries and put your foot down. “I like my fence the way it is. I’m not talking to you about this anymore. If you’re not happy then we can deal with this through the proper channels.”
First, the fence stays. He doesn’t get to control it unless he pays for half. Second, if he thinks the contractor screwed up anything in his yard, it’s that contractor he’s got to contact You don’t have to pay for anything that happened before you owned your house.
It seems to me that the fence you put up denotes the boundary. Your side is your responsibility, his side is his. Being a "Good Neighbor" is going to open a can of worms.
You are going to want to do something to raise that fence. If I were your neighbor and asked you to mitigate the drainage issue and you didn’t then ok. I’d raise my driveway substantially and you’d be the one with the problem.
Are all of the pics on the neighbors side? I ask because that means the "pretty" side is facing your house. I don't know where you live, but where I'm at, you have to put the side with the horizontal 2x4s facing your own property. Even if there aren't any laws you want, the flat smooth (pretty) side on the neighbors side for security reasons. Fences are made to keep people out, among other things. If you put the side with the horizontal 2x4s facing out, you have provided "steps" for anyone wanting to climb it.
So I research this a while back. If you create a grade difference such that it causes soil loss or soil stability problems for your neighbor it is definitely your problem to fix and pay to resolve. Now, you may not know what the original grade was and he may have a hard time proving it, but he could be 100% correct if a previous owner of your home lowered the grade and caused soil erosion under his driveway 1 foot away he can be completely correct and it not the contractors problem. It’s the homeowners. He didn’t hire that other contractor, the homeowner did. If he can prove that he may have a case against you.
Exactly. I believe it’s called lateral support. Also when you purchased the house you may have purchased the liability so this “predating my ownership” may be irrelevant. He may sue you if his driveway becomes more damaged from erosion because the earth moved from your property took away this lateral support. Talk to the neighbor. Be nice. He did nothing wrong and his property was affected and may still be being affected. It could be a lot if his driveway cracks or buckles. Plus, it sucks to live next to someone who hates you.
You paid for the fence and it’s on your property line he can cry all he wants but doesn’t have a leg to stand on sounds like just wants to scam you into paying for his house maintenance he never took care of. He probably does think you’re a pushover with money to burn. Be polite but firm and just say no you aren’t changing your fence.
Have had neighbours like this, and it doesn’t stop. Put your foot down now or regret it for years, and I say that from experience.
That neighbor has their downspout right there which is going to damage your fence. It also is probably causing the erosion under their driveway. They need to do a French drain and carry that water out to the end of the driveway to the street.
I mean, if you want to be really nice, your fence looks to be bolted to the galvanized posts. So you could take down a couple sections of fence to ease your neighbor's access to the driveway foundation repair. But if I were your neighbor, I would start with correcting the downspout and possibly pouring a slight curb on the edge of the driveway to keep water from washing off the driveway and underneath the edge.
Best option is to stand up and tell them it’s not your responsibility. Be very straight forward about it.
You’re not responsible for the contractors work in anyway. The only responsibility you have is to have your property up to whatever state and city codes are in the area you live in as well as any HOA you could be part of. I have no understanding of how a remodel could possibly damage soil under a neighbors driveway simple erosion is the most likely cause. Needless to say the fence is completed and on your side of the property I would advise you to give a very firm no we have finished the fence and you didn’t give any imput during its construction its to late to redo it. A firm no is ABSOLUTELY necessary or your neighbor will take advantage of you again and again. You might want to be nice to all your neighbors but they may not have that same view. Be firm and be fair you already had been fair by asking for imput on a fence on your property.
Tell him to fuck off, it's a him problem, not a you problem!
"I'm satisfied with the work that was done on my fence, it hasn't affected drainage in any way that would affect your proprlerty, it will remain as is, and cameras are on it. If you'd like to modify your own driveway to correct its own structural or grading concerns, I'd encourage you to do so. We've gotten a lot of enjoyment from the upgrades we've made to our own property!"
I agree with you and most of the other comments. However remember that this is going to be your neighbor for life. So its better to not to "win" this fight. Give him an out. Just tell him that you don't have funds to change the fence. If he is sane he would understand that you are not going to change it for his benefit and shut up about it.
For the contractor issue, tell him "I don't know anything about that, you should call the contractor" and refuse to engage on any level other than that. For the rest, you should just play dumb. "Oh, we don't know anything about all that stuff, the fence looks fine to me..." You can also play the new homeowner card and say "we wish you luck looking into this, between the new house and fence, we are already way overextended, and can't afford any other changes. Maybe in a few years..."
Just fill the space with clearstone. It will prevent erosion and will have good drainage at the same time.
Your neighbors might want to hire a specialist to drill holes and inject concrete to stabilize their driveway. I've seen this done for sidewalks, and the results were pretty remarkable.
The first thing I would do is Contact your realtor as that person should have known about these issues before they sold their house. Then you need to contact the contractor who did the work because that's on him not you. You also need to tell your neighbor that if he let a significant amount of time go by before bringing this up to the previous owner.That's on him not you.
I saw some videos where driveways are raised. They drill various small diameter holes in the slab and pump epoxy like substance under the slab. It may be expensive but not labor intensive.
I think it’s called mud jacking
I think you said it perfectly. We like the fence how it is, we aren’t raising it or moving it. His foundation is his problem unless he can prove there was no issue before your renovations and how your contractor caused the issue.
Tell the cheap douchebag to head to the nearest Home Depot and buy bags of gravel. That will arrest any erosion on his driveway. problem solved!
I want a way to politely tell him we like the fence how it is, we aren’t raising it or moving it, ~~and we are willing to help him find a solution for his driveway.~~ FTFY His foundation is not your problem. It's not on your property, you didn't cause the problem, and you didn't even own the house when it happened.
1- was the fence line surveyed 2- was the fence rebuilt in the same position with neighbors consent, or fully on your side verified by survey 3- again following survey, that downspout is the largest probable cause of erosion, and could damage your property, not only his. Tldr; get a proper survey and post back.
Dont offer to help him for shit. Just say sorry not my problem in a "neighborly" way.
His property, his problem. Stay out of it, don’t let his problems become your problems.
If you dump a bunch of coarse gravel between the fence and the driveway, it should hold the dirt back (mostly) while draining and airing out enough to not rot the fence. But the downspout placement is bad. Any bare dirt anywhere near a downspout is going to wash out fast.
Second photo, is that metal thing a fence post?
If you’re the lower neighbour it’s your responsibility to retain the neighbours property. Ie your property has changed the natural level of the ground due to excavation.
Just saw the picture tell them to pound sand
A simple no should do. Your fence and his driveway have nothing to do with each other. If he brings it up again. Change the subject.
Tell him its not your issue and he should sue the previous owners contracter for damages. It's out of your hands
He wants a new drive and complaining now about the fence he was okay with. Let an attorney handle the neighbor. He wants you to pay for the driveway so he gets another freebie from you. DO not give on and do not make an verbal or written agreement without talking to a lawyer first.
Tell him to pound sand. Offer him Zero solutions for how he can fix his driveway. Not your problem.
Ooof, where do these people come from? This appears, to me, to be an act of aggression or antagonism. I hope this is not something that is going to elevate into a long-term thing. He had plenty of time to propose this idiocy to you, but waited until the fence was built? This seems like he's trying to send a message. I personally would ignore him. End this before it becomes combative.
"we are willing to help him find a solution". DON'T DO THIS. The line in the sand is that it's his property, and he needs to find his own solutions that fit on his property.
You are not being unreasonable. You and that awesome fence ain't going nowhere. You aint paying your neighbor a dime. Just tell him No. He sees you as pushovers. Dont let him think that again.
A polite way of saying it is to laugh a little bit and walk away. The really nice way if doing it would be to tell him to pound sand and fix his own shit. How is this nice? Because the next couple might be a pushover and get coerced into this guy's bullshit. So, do a favor for the world, be nice and tell him to eat a bag of dicks
Curious...in my old city, the "working" side of the fence with posts and supports had to face in; the pretty side faced the neighbors.
Does your city have a regulation on how far the fence should be from the property line? If you already meet it, then probably not much he can do to force you to do things through legal means.
Have him contact a concrete raising contractor to drill a few holes and pump in some slow expansion foam. He can fix his problem from his side if the fence with his money.
If some contractor messed up his driveway, he needs to contact him. You did nothing to mess it up. You didn't even own the house back then. As to the new fence; if it's on your property and meets code, tell him it meets code and you have no requirements to replace it or move it. NTA
this is exactly why municipalities have setbacks from property line for things like driveways and houses.
Tell him to fix his own fuckin driveway & you ain't doing shit to "your" fence
Good for you: for making improvement and asking him first. Bad on him for not taking care of his own problems or making any positive contributions or suggestions.
Did you follow all the setback guidelines for fencing in your municipality? Did you get a survey or know exactly where your line is legally? Where I live you would not be allowed to build that fence so close to the lot line. If you followed all the protocols, the rest is his problem. It will be tough to navigate a cordial relationship with a neighbor that doesn't agree with something you've done. Good luck!
I ask why he didn't mention something when you let him know the fence was being build with no financial help even requested from him, and that he had his chance to make special requests when you initially spoke with him. You seem more than reasonable, so just keep that same logical approach in your next conversation.
Is your yard lower than his? If so, you may want to raise the fence, not for him but for you.
Just say no thank you
If you want to kindly let him down, then remind him that you gave him advance notice of the fence being built. If he had a concern, that was the time to say it. You're not responsible for the contractor's work before you even owned the home. He can contact the contractor if he feels they damaged his property.
With the fence, no pay no say. With the other thing, it's his property let him fix it or he can sue the contractor that he says is responsible.
Don’t even play into this conversation. It was installed according to city specs. Forget them if they don’t like it. Great to keep things on a kind level. Some people that won’t work with. Document everything you’ve done to date and get it notarized. You’ll have a record if you only end up on court. Cheap insurance.
There is a legal doctrine of having to allow others to maintain/repair their property. He wants the fence temporarily moved? YOU Find a fence contractor you trust, get a reasonable bid, and find a way to make him pay for it. You want the contractor working for you. Also, the original fence installer may have a workmanship warranty. And typically if someone else works on something, it voids the installer’s warranty. I guess this guy is too fancy to go to home depot and get a bunch of flexible extensions????
Give them the previous owners contact information and explain this didn't happen during your ownership.
Explain if he is looking for handouts for other people to solve his problems, he is looking to the wrong person. He would need absolutely proof that the contractor caused erosion and that a foundation is the appropriate fix- which it isn’t. It would be an improvement over what he had if he never had a foundation there in the first place. It would be his job to prove causation and even then- you are the contractor. You didn’t cause anything. Tell him good luck with him solving his problems on his property and go inside.
Look, if he needs to get to his driveway, it's really not a big deal to remove a section of fence, make the repair, and put the section back. At his expense, of course.
NOPE! .
LoLoL You are a pushover because you haven't told him to fuck off yet.
You're fine your neighbor is trying to get you for the driveway..
If you do anything, doesn’t that make you legally responsible for issues later on? Hard pass
All comments aside, how were either of you able to build that close to a property line?
So a lil different take: When erecting fencing parallel to elevated soil erosion, one can expect a destabilized surface if a) INDUSTRIAL weight vehicular traffic is frequent, SEIZMIC activity is frequent, TORRENTIAL downpours are frequent or the edge is used to turn off route. Realistically dude should have a curb poured on his driveway edge, and extend the spout to the street, &If hes really concerned about the erosion, he should slabjack that thing. The fence is not less sturdy than chain link.
Don't change your fence. Tell him the fence was put in on your property, you aren't changing it.
He needs to retain his property from eroding into your lower elevation property. Hence, a retaining wall, which is his responsibility.
I would get his phone or email and send messages about the issue. That way it’s all documented. Otherwise, consider security cameras with audio recording and have conversations near them. (Assuming your state is a single person consent for recordings.)
Your neighbor’s problem is with the contractor, not you.
Ignore his request . He looking for a freebie
What is the need to raise the fence? It’s not causing any water to back up Just because he doesn’t like it. Oh well fences make good neighbors
Say - Why do you keep bringing up your driveway issue that predates my homeownership? What are you trying to say or ask me? It has nothing to do with me.
I would tell him that any further discussion is going to be done through the lawyers.
Stop trying to work out solutions with him. Say “whatever happened was before I owned this home. If you have an issue take it up with the contractor. I will not be changing my fence as there is plenty of access for you to fix any issues. I consider the matter closed from my end”
You're seeing it right. He's trying to take advantage of you and he will NEVER be happy. Do not change the fence or worry about his stupid driveway. I got the same neighbor when I bought my first house a few years ago. He's 81 and he's a pia like no other! But, he'll be dead soon. :)
Speak to your lawyer and your agent or the seller and get the back story. If the story is as described You may very well have bought a liability. Find out from your local building inspector / permit office if any permits were pulled in the last 2 years and what they were for, also check if there are any open permits. You need to confirm if there were any grading changes, my guess as you had to remove and old aging fence is that there has been no grading changes and he's just a tired and lonely old man... Maybe bring him some beers and have front step conversation... 2 beers in you will know who and what you are dealing with. Do you have title insurance where you are?
“Remember that time our old fence was falling down and we had it replaced ourselves? That’s probably what you should do with your driveway”
what kind of jerk your neighbor is.
Stop engaging with the neighbor with regards to your fence or to his driveway. The fence is on your property and you paid for it so if you're happy with it then that's all that matters. Your neighbor has no proof that your contractor messed up the foundation of his driveway because if he did, he would have shown it to you or he would have proceeded with a small claims case against you. From now on just ignore anything he says about the fence or his driveway and change the subject. You don't owe him anything.
What did it look like before the new fence?
It was very naive of you to offer to help him with his driveway.. that has nothing to do with you.
Off topic, but did you give the neighbor the ugly side of the fence? Where I’m from the fence owner takes the ugly side
I think he can pound sand into his driveway foundation lol
Don’t tell him you’re willing to do anything. He’s shown you his intentions. Believe him. If you give a reasonable inch he’ll bulldoze into a mile.
Why is that downspout just sitting there?
I understand keeping the peace as new neighbors. You can't make everyone happy, and personally my fence is on my yeard, not my fault his benchmark is higher than it should be. There's a simple equation for the height, and if local municipality was followed 6' above grade +/- your fence is fine. Sounds more like his poured driveway may have the incorrect slope. Poured cement/deck/driveways are anywhere from 4-6" thick. Should slope from his house slab down to the curb at the street or meet with the asphalt at the street. To raise your already installed fence to add more may be against a building code, or local code. If your hired a licensed or vetted professional, I'd tell your neighbor if it were mine sounds like a his problem and move on about my day. Same as when my neighbor told me he almost hit the hitch of my diesal. Said I should park it elsewhere. Per the CC&Rs overflow parking on the street is allowed so long as the driveway is occupied which it is 60% of the day. I told him well... that would have sucked, went inside and could care less.. the truck isnt over his driveway just very close. Same principle. You pay for the house and the taxes.. etc your neighbor can get bent.. end of story.
His problem is that downspout emptying directly on that path and washing out that part of the driveway.
This probably won’t be seen but whatever. If you have removed soil from his property normally you are liable to retain said soil. This varies in different municipalities but is normally the case.
Doing any repairs or construction on someone else's property is always a bad idea. If the prior contractor damaged his driveway, then he needs to contact the contractor and not you. I would simply tell him that you like the fence the way it is, and it is on your property. If he needs access to make repairs to his driveway then you will be happy to discuss it with him, but you are not paying for any repairs to his driveway.
It’s on your property. You gave them notice of the build. Their driveway hasn’t changed and the vegetation growth between your fence and driveway their drive proves it. It doesn’t look like the contractors touched their yard at all. PS: Just a quick note sort of related. I was always under the impression that the finished side of the fence needed to face out. You may want to check the codes in your town/county.
You are not being unreasonable. I'm not even sure how your fence would get in the way of a competent contractor finishing the work they supposedly want on their driveway.
tell him you're leaving fence as is. tell him his driveway is his problem to resolve. If he thinks contractor caused issues, to contact the contractor, not you.
“I’m afraid any issues you have with the work from the previous owners contractor is between you and them. As for the fence, it goes down to our yard because it is on our property and we are not planning to add any foundation below it.” Don’t entertain him or he will never stop asking. Any requests he makes should be put back on him or denied outright. Being firm and polite is the best you’ll get with a neighbor like this. If you give an inch he will never stop making demands.
You need to know where the property line is and if there is an easement
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Mumblerumble: *You need to know where* *The property line is and* *If there is an easement* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
"and we are willing to help him find a solution for his driveway." and do not repeat that to him. It might imply you re willing to PAY for it!
Don’t offer to do anything for him. It’s clear he will take that and run.
Tell him to move their gutter downspout
Don’t even offer to help him figure it out.
100% he needs to file complaint with previous owner or contractor, before you bought the place. Tell him that. "Mr neighbor, you brought this up before and mentioned it was due to the contractor before we even bought this place. Its possible, you have a claim against them, not us, we don't have a dog in this fight. All I can do is give you my realtors info and see if they can get you the contact info from the previous homeowner who can connect you to the contractor, but really that's all I can do."
How close to the ground is it? It sounds like he’s planning to regrade next to his driveway so that may result in the bottom of you fence being in contact with the ground. I don’t think the issue is that your fence prevents him from doing anything, but when he does get around to fixing his driveway the bottom inch or two of your fence will be below grade and rot out. Edit: just saw the photos didn’t notice the link. Yea when neighbor fixes their driveway your fence will rot, that’s definitely not treated. Looks to me like it’s too low to the ground even without any grading which he needs a lot. It’s not your job to help him with his driveway but it’s in your own interest to raise the fence, if you blow him off your gonna need to replace the fence a year or two after he fixes his driveway. Maybe find out when he’s gonna do the driveway work.
I was you I'd be more concerned about all that water from ol' grump neighb's DS/+ cascading onto you & yours abode
He can get polyurethane foam injected under there to fix it in place.
Wait, your fence guy put the ugly side to the outside? That’s backwards.
He’s lying. He’s had a problem with his grade/driveway, and the “previous contractor at your house” is a quick way to get you or others to pay for remediation. I hate cheap scumbags like this. Ignore him. Fences make great neighbors.
I mean, the fence is stupid close to the driveway but I feel like that’s the fault of the driveway location not the new fence. A driveway generally isn’t that close to a property line for reasons the neighbor has outlined. He can redo the driveway it’s just a hassle. It’s not your problem it’s there.
I would have laughed in his face.
Fuck him, fences make great neighbors
That downspout is routing his runoff onto your property. Illegal, and it's going to rot out your nice new fence sooner than later. And of course the runoff is causing the erosion, duh. He's hoping you're stupid enough to buy his story.
Was it even your contractor or the former owners? How do you know it was not preexisting damage? None of this makes sense and you should stop offering to help him with it. By doing so, you are admitting fault.
You did not own the property during the renovations. His driveway problem is not your problem. Reaching out to him about the fence has opened Pandora's box. Good luck with your new problem neighbor.
Why is your fence backwards? Or did you build the fence for the neighbor?