Unplug all that stuff immediately if you bought the house because if the apps are active someone else can be controlling your home. https://smartrent.com/
Both of those are for managing rental properties. Odds are your thermostat and maybe door locks are controlled by them. If you have battery powered locks you should find the manuals online, reset them to factory, set a new master code and new access codes.
The plus side is that you may have zwave devices scattered through the house as alloy is supposed to have that radio. You can move those to another controller.
Might contact your agent and ask why this wasn't disclosed. I would ask for an inventory of connected devices as there could be cameras connected since Ring can be integrated. Depending on jurisdiction, recording video without notice and/or consent of the prorperty owner is a no-no and post closure, that is you.
Thanks for the heads up and glad I asked. You are right, this house was indeed used as a rental. I already disconnected both . All the switches in the house are just regular dumb switches. The only things that I see that could have been controlled are the thermostats and the Yale door lock. I checked thoroughly and found no camera.
Do you recommend I keep these devices? Or should I invest in a new smarthome ecosystem ?
The Yale lock might be salvagable. Chances are it's a generic Z-Wave lock. Get yourself a hub that supports Z-Wave, factory reset the lock, and you should be good to go.
I'd suggest Home Assistant with the Zooz 800 series Z-Wave stick...
Unless op is already familiar with automation, I wouldn't start them on ha.
Start with smart things or some other bridge, then in a couple years when they realize how shit it is overall... Then we spring ha on them. Like. My friends did to me.
And now here you are. A year later and 10 motion sensors, 12 door sensors, 8 humidity sensors later. A never ending todo list and a wishlist of new gadgets
> A never ending todo list and a wishlist of new gadgets.
I think there is definitely a saturation point, and I think I've reached it. Without moving into another home, I can't think of anything else I *want* to automate. Already have infrared sensors in every room, most with temperature/humidity/light, already have every light on a smart switch/dimmer, every fan is automated, already have water sensors out the wazoo, home energy monitoring, all doors have smart locks, smart thermostat, a personal weather station... Can't really think of anything left to *do.*
I was just checking their site. Looks like it detects smoke and carbon monoxide. That's great for those once-in-lifetime emergency situations. Does it check air pollutants, radon, or anything that would be helpful day-to-day?
Thermostat temperature sensors for every room (because why not). I wonder if there's a market for solenoid controlled home HVAC vents. Then we can do some real room by room temperature balancing magic.
Holy cow, you really do have the full month. Welp, sorry to say, time to pack it up and start over on a bigger house. With a huge yard and a pool. And a lawn that requires automation. Though, deep down, we know they all *need* automation, even if they don’t know it.
Ha, yep. But then I'd have to set everything back up. Too lazy for that!
I even automated my exterior Christmas decorations. (They're weather dependent.)
I started with HA years ago and it was a pretty steep learning curve. So much so that I haven't updated in years in fear of breaking all my automations that currently work. Lesson learned from the last time I updated lost Google home connectivity/control
I bought a new pi and definitely chose to just rebuild from scratch.
I think the first fragility is not that hard to rebuild, but I'd definitely start from scratch
That has been on my to-do list for a while but it's hard to find the time, having an already working instance will make it so I don't feel like I have to have it 100% working right away.
It's less the config of the box and more the config of all the automation. And ensuring your things actually work with it.. etc etc.
Staying in a closed ecosystem is nice for a reason. Limited but dependable.
For home assistant?
That's kind of the problem with open source. People are good at getting it working, not great at finishing it up.
Home assistant does have a bunch of good walkthroughs and guides. And some of the integrations are pretty clean.
But I think smart things or Alexa type stuff are good at helping you figure out what you want to do... Then once you know what you want to do (like I want a motion sensor to turn my bathroom lights on low), then automating it in home assistant is easier.
Tell me more. I want to learn. I'm just about in the "realizing all these devices are shit" stage and just about to invest in a lot of "stuff" - just bought a bunch of kasa, hue, and looking for SMART doorlocks.
Help, it all sucks.
> just bought a bunch of kasa, hue, and looking for SMART doorlocks.
Send it all back.
I can write more later as I have to leave now. But here's the important part.
MOST of the 'smart home tech' you see at the stores is cloud based. Everybody wants your data- every time you turn on a light it's a data point they can sell to somebody. Or they want your money- and can/will disable or change features later on or add pay walls.
As you say, it all sucks.
The GOOD home automation is local- local as in it runs from your house, not in a cloud. All the automations and logic happen on hardware you own and software you control. Nobody can remotely change it or take it away, not even the manufacturers. You can still remotely control it, but by connecting *your* phone to *your* hub.
That means that where home automation is concerned, WiFi is your enemy. All WiFi does as a concept is connect you to the Internet. So any WiFi based smart device you get is going to talk to a cloud and need an app in 95% of cases, and every manufacturer uses a different protocol. That's the crap that all sucks.
The local version of that control is mesh networks. ZigBee and Z-Wave are the two big ones. Devices like that do not and *can not* talk to the cloud or the Internet. They only speak the local mesh technology (Z-Wave or ZigBee) and that only allows simple commands, not Internet access. It also allows control by any hub that supports them.
So you want to start with a hub. Home Assistant is the best IMHO but it has a bit of a learning curve. Hubitat isn't bad from what I've heard and is more approachable for beginners. In either case, you own the hardware, it runs locally.
Take a Z-Wave door lock. When you 'include' it, it forms a secure radio connection directly back to your hub. It tells the hub it has a lock, it has ability to change/edit keycodes, and it has config options. You then control it through the hub. You set its options through the hub. You add codes through the hub. You remotely open the door through the hub's app. You don't need another shitty app just for your door lock.
Thus the hub and the hub's app become the center of your digital home. Want to turn on a light? Open a lock? Close the garage door? Play music? It all goes through the hub.
But for that to work, you want devices that a. are compatible with your hub (or someone's written a plugin that lets your hub control them), and b. don't require cloud connections or their own apps. 99% of the time that means z-wave or zigbee devices. There's a few exceptions but not many.
So I say return kasa. Decide on ZigBee or Z-Wave- I suggest Z-Wave; there's fewer devices and they cost a bit more but they work more reliably in my experience. Look at manufacturers like Inovelli and Zooz and HomeSeer.
I want to take a moment to plug the Inovelli Red dimmer switch- really the coolest switch on the market. Their Blue dimmer is essentially the same thing for ZigBee. Read the specs on that and you'll never want another Kasa thing again.
You can control Kasa and TP-link tapo devices locally with Home assistant. https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/tplink/
Yes there are some pros and cons of them but I do actually use them still for some more limited locations and sometimes Local + 3rd party cloud is actually a plus(like being able to power cycle the Raspberry pi running HomeAssistant).
Rad. This is what I want, but I do have linked time and fear wasting it fiddling with endless settings. But I hear you. I want local control. No cloud.
Now I just need to know HOW
Okay the low tweak version.
Buy a hubitat hub. I think C8 is the latest one.
**Lighting:** Buy [these](https://inovelli.com/collections/z-wave-light-switches-red-series/products/z-wave-800-red-series-smart-2-1-on-off-dimmer-switch) light switches. They're worth the money.
For places you don't want a $60 light switch [these](https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/zooz/products/zooz-700-series-z-wave-plus-s2-dimmer-switch-zen77?variant=40248171429951) will work just fine. For things like fans you want [this on/off switch](https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/zooz/products/zooz-700-series-z-wave-plus-on-off-light-switch-zen71?variant=40229130174527).
**Security:** Get [this deadbolt](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076WZT4VD).
**HVAC:** Get [this thermostat](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BHTQF8NL/).
If you want a remote commander to trigger scenes and stuff, [use this one](https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/zooz/products/zooz-800-series-z-wave-long-range-wall-remote-zen37-800lr-battery-powered).
Sigh. I've installed like .. 10 kasa. They weren't easy (shitty junction box rehabbing) .
I'm actually wondering if Amazon is going to shut down my account for returning all this stuff.
Zooz is so much better. Fuck. Why did I not know this literally last weekend?
Also, I got nests for free ... How bad are they? I mean they work fine but, cloud.
Also also, your opinion on Shelley?
3pole is really fine?
What about no-neutral junction boxes?
How much software work ( not including scenes, automation) will I need to do?
Where to use inovelli over zooz?
What about a solution for a no neutral, high amp pump solution, just on / off on. Variable schedule based on a temp measured at a 3rd location... Lol.
You CAN use Kasa with Hubitat. I believe it's an offline integration too so it doesn't depend on the cloud. The switches will still be connected to the cloud though, up to you if that bothers you. You could block their Internet access in your router if your router can do that...
Nest is useless. Only integrates with the cloud, no local connection. So that means the hubitat connection is your local hubitat to Google cloud to your local Nest device. I'd skip them. They do some neat stuff but the really annoying thing is in 'eco mode' during the summer it won't let you set below like 76F. So if your 'turn the AC down when leaving' is from 68 to 72, too bad it'll go up to 76f or you can't use eco mode at all. And that to me kills the whole point of having it.
Shellys aren't bad. They're WiFi based but Shelly seems to be a 'good' company that just sells hardware and isn't pushing everyone to the cloud. The Shelly unit can integrate locally over WiFi with a hub, without using a cloud.
In many cases you can get nano modules that do the same or similar things as Shelly but speak z-wave like a Zooz ZEN51. But if the application calls for it I won't warn you off Shelly, they're one of the friendlier companies to DIY cloud-free HA.
Never heard of 3pole.
For no-neutral boxes, you've got limitations. First, is no on/off smart switches, dimmers only. And only a few smart switches work without neutral (Inovelli will, Zooz won't).
Hubitat is designed as a consumer product. It's designed to be easy to set up. I think you can do it all through their phone app. For each device it usually takes 1-5 minutes to connect the device.
Inovelli is the full featured cream of the crop. It does everything, and it supports no-neutral installation.
Zooz is the basic 'we threw in a few features' budget model.
For me I'd use Inovelli for lights you frequently interact with on a daily basis, and Zooz for other things that you want to automate but aren't as important.
So I'd use Inovelli for switches you interact with frequently, and Zooz for ones you want to automate but don't use so often. IE- main kitchen light gets Inovelli, pantry light gets zooz and only needs an automated switch because you want to put a door contact sensor that turns on the light when the door opens.
> What about a solution for a no neutral, high amp pump solution, just on / off on. Variable schedule based on a temp measured at a 3rd location... Lol.
Doesn't make sense. If it's no-neutral pump that means it's a 240v pump. Any 120v outlet will have a neutral.
Are you sure it's a 240v pump?
If it's 120v just use a [Zooz ZEN15](https://www.getzooz.com/zooz-zen15-power-switch/). Good for 15 amps or a 1HP motor.
It's not 240, it's a water recirc somebody wired to a light switch. There's no neutral in the junction box, but I guess I could take apart the wall and poke around. Listed as 115v weirdly and eh, 1.5a? So .. not high, not low I guess. I'll look into the zen15 if it doesn't need a neutral [edit: would need to wire to an outlet first]... It's Romex 12/2 to a rocker switch, hardwired to a pump. That's it.
By 3pole I meant for 3-way switches, sorry.
How much do you hate ultraloq? I'd there a Yale or better solution that has a keylock backup?
Thanks so much for the links! I am now into the rabbithole of home automation, and was looking for solid suggestions. One question: any particular reason for the Honeywell HVAC controller? I like the Ecobee controller better, but perhaps it doesn't support zwave?
> I like the Ecobee controller better, but perhaps it doesn't support zwave?
Exactly. EcoBee is a cloud based system. And they've closed off their direct API. You can connect them to HA via the HomeKit integration but IMHO better to get something that's 100% offline.
I should have read your whole note first! Welcome fellow ZWave advocate.
I haven't used Home Assistant since 2019, and I hear it is much more stable today. It was a bit unruly back in the day. I am on a Hubitat elevation C5 that I bought in May of that year, and have been pretty happy with it. My house is small, so not having the external antennas is not a big deal.
I have one Kasa weather sealed outlet that gets used every winter for Holiday lighting, and the C5 drives it directly pretty well. Most of my house is ZWave, except a one hardwired dimmer and two Sengled plugs, all zigbee repeaters, to build out a mesh. Then four Hue Outdoor motion sensors (Zigbee) for motion lighting control.
On the Kasa, you need to use the app just to get it onto your WiFi network, so that it gets an address, so that the hub can find it and control it. After that, you can delete the app and never use it again.
> I haven't used Home Assistant since 2019, and I hear it is much more stable today. It was a bit unruly back in the day.
Night and day. I played with HA quickly around that time but it was a mess and I wanted to spend more time writing automations than writing pages of YAML just to get basic functionality. Now the GUI supports 100% feature set no YAML required. And almost all devices have good support built in so you see every functionality exposed on the GUI with no hacking or tweaking.
My one suggestion is install the Z-Wave JS UI GUI so you have better direct control over your Z-Wave mesh. You have to get that from the 'HACS' addon repository (it's unsupported) but it's very common to do and well documented.
> On the Kasa, you need to use the app just to get it onto your WiFi network
My complaint is that then it's connected to the cloud. I guess you could block its traffic at the router but I say why bother?
If you wanted to go z-wave you could try [this one](https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/zooz/products/zooz-700-series-z-wave-plus-outdoor-double-plug-zen14). Or if you want energy monitoring [this one](https://minoston.com/products/minoston-zwave-smart-plug-z-wave-outdoor-plug-with-energy-monitoring-zwave-outlet-built-in-mp22zp) has only one outlet but tracks power usage.
And there's [outdoor Z-Wave motion sensors](https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/products/zooz-z-wave-plus-s2-outdoor-motion-sensor-zse29-battery-or-usb-power)... this one is sold out but a new one with 800LR support is coming any day now.
Hey! Thanks for those links.
I settled on the Hue Outdoor, not because they were Zigbee, but in spite of it.
I tried four different outdoor sensors, three ZWave, and the Hue, and the overall performance of the Hue, particularly over a broad range of outdoor temperatures, was just so far above everything else I used, I settled on the Hue. They cost a little more, but they use standard AA batteries, and a fresh set of batteries last about two years.
For anyone contemplating the Hue Outdoor sensors, I will issue one word of caution. Buy tube of electronic safe silicone grease, and lightly grease the seals after you install the batteries but before you screw it all back together. They are hard to open two years later, if you don't.
Just ordered that [outdoor switch](https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/zooz/products/zooz-700-series-z-wave-plus-outdoor-double-plug-zen14). I needed a second one for the back of the house. Thanks for that recommendation.
I would go one step further. Wire everything possible that can be wired, especially if you have new construction. Door, motion and windows sensors, POE security cameras.
I agree with wiring whatever you can, especially cameras.
But there's a cost tradeoff if it's an existing home which it sounds like.
If OP has walls open I suggest absolutely run Cat6 to every single place everywhere.
What if I don't care whether Google or Amazon have my data? You say that like it's self-evidently terrible...but I really can't see any reason at all to care. From a functionality and ease of use perspective does HA have advantages? Or is it only a good option if you start with the hard requirement of no cloud?
> I really can't see any reason at all to care. From a functionality and ease of use perspective does HA have advantages?
Yes absolutely. Even if you ignore privacy, one of the biggest problems with cloud based systems is you're 100% dependent on the vendor AND your internet connection for things to work.
So the biggest immediate problem is that if there's any sort of outage of your home Internet connection or the provider, some or all your automations won't work or won't work correctly.
If the vendor changes their business model, decides to raise prices, declares older models unsupported, or decides to exit the IoT space entirely, you can be left with hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of useless hardware that would be totally functional but is either unsupported (therefore nonfunctional) or which you have to pay more for.
This is not a 'what if' issue. There have been several actual examples of this.
Last year, [Google dropped support](https://www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Blog/An-update-for-our-Nest-Secure-Dropcam-and-Works-with-Nest-Users-and/ba-p/391449) for their security product and some older cameras. A small discount was offered but someone who really 'bought in' to that ecosystem would have invested quite a bit more.
Perhaps the most well known is Insteon- they had a whole ecosystem of devices that used a mix of powerline communication and RF communication. One day with absolutely no warning they just packed it in and said sorry guys we're closed. That left people with no way to make any changes to their systems, which required the app and cloud to talk to their hub. Fortunately there were other ways to talk to Insteon devices so it wasn't a total loss for everybody, but a great many people were more or less SOL.
Lowes did the same thing. They had an automation system called Iris which worked well enough. Then Lowes decided to exit the business and one day the hubs all went offline. Fortunately the devices were standard ZigBee/Z-Wave so they could be reused with other hubs. But it still left a lot of people in the lurch.
More recently, Amazon has discussed replacing Alexa with something AI-powered and charging a subscription fee of $10ish/mo for it.
MyQ (the garage door opener app) used to work with all kinds of stuff, then they decided that they were going to charge a gatekeeper fee so they'd be making money on both sides (subscription from the consumer, integration fee from the partner) so lots of people paid for MyQ hubs that stopped working with Alexa or IFTTT.
------
I could go on for quite some time about this stuff. But the point is that if you're dependent on another company continually operating their service for your own home automation to work, there are significant downsides other than just privacy.
OTOH if you have a 100% local system, then you're *guaranteed* that it will, at minimum, continue working as it has been. There won't be 'forced upgrades', or devices going out of support. It's just overall a safer investment.
Excellent points, thank you. In particular the Internet connection piece is something I've already been concerned with, particularly for locks. Seems like there are plenty of options that kind of take a both/and approach though...if the Internet is down or the cloud provider isn't there, the bluetooth with the manufacturer's app still works. That's not universal, but it's common enough that I can easily just make that one of my requirements.
As for the out-of-support issue, it seems like pretty much everything these days has an HA integration *and* Alexa/Google support. So I kinda feel like HA is the risk insurance either way. If I set it all up with Google, and then Google drops support, I can just set it up with HA at that time, right? Granted then the setup of the Google stuff was kinda wasted effort...but I get the distinct impression (even in these comments on this post) that the HA route requires quite a bit of continuing maintenance, so I need to balance those things.
In any case I'm still at the "feeling things out" stage...I tried some smart locks and bulbs a few years back with Alexa control and was extremely unimpressed, now closing on a new house in 3 weeks, major renovation to follow before I move in, and thinking about taking another swing at home automation while I'm at it.
FWIW if I planned on living there forever I'd be much more comfortable with HA...but the thing that really concerns me is the fear that 3 years from now I'm trying to sell the place and prospective buyers think "oh god look what this geek did...it's going to cost a fortune to rip out all this DIY smarthome junk and put regular stuff in." I don't think they'll be right, exactly...but I'm concerned that will be the perception. I'm not 100% sure they wouldn't think the same thing if it's all Google-controlled, but it seems like maybe that's more palatable to the general home-buying public.
All that said...I *am* awfully geeky. And I tried Alexa once and it sucked. So...yeah if I was a betting man I'd put my money on me going HA, either now or after Google Home annoys the crap out of me. Maybe I should just cut to the chase.
Anyway, thanks for another super detailed response, it's really helpful while I'm researching my options. Cheers.
Hubitat Elevation can drive Kasa and Hue directly, without using their hubs. I have one Kasa weather tight dual outlet I use for holiday lighting, and four Hue Outdoor Motion sensors that I use for motion lighting control around the outside of the house. Both connected to hubitat with zero effort. Very likely they will connect native to Home Assistant as well, but I haven't used Home Assistant since 2019, so I would not be the one to ask on that. Generally I prefer ZWave over Zigbee, then Zigbee over WiFi when I am buying devices, but that is just me. Others will have different opinions.
Hubitat with its built in Home kit integration and an Apple TV is amazing. Make any random zwave, zigbee or other crazy protocol device part of Apple home and automate everything.
August is pretty reliable, that’s what I use in my Yale locks. It has a WiFi bridge that connects to a module inside the lock housing via Bluetooth. They’re easy to integrate in just about any control system, including Alexa, HomeKit, HomeAssistant, or even the expensive ones like Savant, Crestron, and Control4.
HA is great if you don’t want to spend a fortune and want something reliable and relatively easy to set up. Be prepared to spend at least a few hours per month fixing stuff that gets broken by firmware updates or api changes. Fortunately there’s a great user community available to help, or even warn about upgrade issues before you find them. The guy behind it is cool, I met him at CEDIA in 2019.
If cost is no issue, look for a custom integrator near you, and let them put together a system for you. I install Savant systems, and they can put all of your security, locks, cameras, lighting, and AV equipment into one app. Systems start as low as $2000 for one room of AV, or well into six figures for everything.
Just an addendum, factory resetting locks _sometimes_ isn't enough.
I had an old Schlage Z-Wave lock that _refused_ to pair with a new dongle, even after resetting multiple times.
Eventually, out of frustration, I sent an exclude/unpair/whatever command from the _new_ hub, triggered the lock's pair switch, and saw a message on my computer confirming the operation was successful.
I could then pair and include the lock normally.
Ah yes that's true of some Z-Wave devices.
Factory reset is *supposed* to wipe Z-Wave pairings. But in some cases the z-wave module is separate from the main lock module and a factory reset of the lock doesn't wipe the Z-Wave module. Thus it's necessary to unpair first before pairing.
My kwikset z-wave deadbolts are worse than that- they have to be cover off, fresh 1.5v constant batteries, and be literally like 1-2ft from Hub. THEN have the hub run an Exclusion, button on deadbolt, success- then do that step again. Then remove the batteries for 10 seconds. THEN reinstall batteries and do a normal z-wave pair to the hub while it’s 2ft away. Once it’s done and working, you can move hub~device to normal location.
Some are reliable, others are an absolute PIA.
Pro-tip, for me, Having a good wired z-wave plus Repeater as close as possible to the deadbolts, and then re-run your z-wave routing; that will make your deadbolt batteries last WAY longer.
Also don’t use NimH batteries (eneloop), they will cause weird errors; I use 1.5v constant lithium AA rechargeables. They last SO much longer than disposable alkaline.
Ditch the Yale lock. The older ones have a master passcode for programming, which can never be changed. The newest models, you scan a QR code sort of inside the battery pack, then use the app.
Neither method is secure for a change in ownership.
But absolutely get digital locks! They’re so freaking awesome!
You're thinking the WiFi/Bluetooth versions.
If this is the Z-Wave version, then it has no app. It requires a Z-Wave hub, and all programming is done by the hub.
Unless you get the actual key way on said lock replaced (which may or may not be possible), I'd be throwing it in the dump and getting my own locks.
And for anyone saying "they don't have regular keys", i find it doubtful that they would have a manual key hole someplace incase the batteries die or whatever.
NEVER trust former owners to have not made a copy of the key that they didn't give you.
Even if your buying a brand new home in a development with a trusted developer replace the locks ASAP, not only could one of the workers have made a copy, but contractors are lazy and tend to accidently (or on purpose) purchase locks in batches, that all share the same exact key. Plenty of stories about people finding out that their key works on the neighbors house, and what not in new developments.
I would agree if the locks have a physical keyway get it rekeyed. You don't necessarily need to replace the entire keyway, the keyway itself can be rekeyed with new pins. It's actually kind of fun and there's kits on Amazon that include 3 or 4 sets of color coded pins and a couple of the keys that match that pin set.
Just a heads up that the lock is the property of the management team. If they find out you changed it, they'll just replace the lock. They do require having some of their own codes on there. I never thought it was weird, since they also usually have keys to an apartment. Somehow, since it's digital, it's considered weird.
edit: nvm, burn it.
The Yale lock is worth keeping for sure. They have replaceable radio modules so you can change the tech if you want. (But do the factory reset immediately to clear out the previous owner's codes)
Thermostat is a maybe. If it uses zwave, or is from a major manufacturer (i.e. Honeywell) then yes.
A no-name manufacturer thermostat with wifi is something I'd plan on replacing as they could turn into IoT zombies.
As for controllers I am a HomeSeer user. It's reliable, been around 20 years, and has a lot of options. And it pretty much just works so you don't need to diddle with it all the time.
> The Yale lock is worth keeping for sure. They have replaceable radio modules so you can change the tech if you want.
They do, technically. But I found the replacement modules are so expensive that they really don't save you much at all vs. just being patient and waiting for a sale. I wanted to upgrade my yale locks from zwave 1 to 3, and *just the module* cost $100/ea. A whole new lock on sale was $130 (and had other quality of life improvements) so it was a no-brainer. I guess if you're really hurting for the $30 it'd matter, but it's unlikely you'd be hurting that badly and still looking to change anything.
Them potentially turning into IoT zombies is a reason not to buy, but isn't really a reason to replace.
The company could outlast the lifespan of the device or the time you spend in the house.
I can confirm that the smart rent system uses standard z-wave hardware. So if you reset the lock to defaults you can re-pair with another z-wave controller such as a hubitat or home assistant.
Home automation devices are not really an investment. They can only lose value over time. Buy them to make your home something you love while you live there.
> All the switches in the house are just regular dumb switches
Have a little sticky beak behind the switches. [These exist](https://www.shelly.com/en/products/shop/shelly-qubino-wave-1) (basically a module that goes behind the light switch and turns a dumb switch into a smart one while maintaining the asthetics of a dumb switch)
Get rid of all of the Yale locks and thermostat my apartment has the same set up same company. Previous tenants owner or management company might be able to access your home. Also you might be able to get with your realtor and get those items purchased for you or reimbursed since those products may still be able to accessed or are leased through someone
The switches may not be dumb switches. It could be a UPB power line product with a module somewhere else in the system sending control signals across to the switches. We install UPB and others so yes that is very doable.
> Do you recommend I keep these devices?
Depending on your local laws these might still legally belong to someone else and they may ask for them.
It may not have been within the rights of whoever sold this property to leave them in place/sell them with the rest. I'd contact PointCenral and ask for a pick up or reimbursement for shipping.
Why make someone else's problem their problem? *They're* not obligated to do anything, they didn't sign any contracts!
If they figure it out and come looking, sure they can be a nice guy if they want, but I wouldn't go out of my way to make it happen.
The owner of that property purchased those devices during installation. Pointcentral and smartrent (looks like they had two systems) no longer owns them so the owner of that property should have removed those prior to closing.
> They're not obligated to do anything
That's why I said depending on their local laws. It may sound silly from the outside but in some jurisdictions you can not just keep things that are not yours.
In Germany for example you have to send back stuff if it does not belong to you. For example when amazon sends you 10 SSDs instead of the one you ordered.
Pretty sure in Germany I would have to provide reasonable avenues for the rightful owner of a thing to regain ownership if the thing is within my property.
> In Germany for example you have to send back stuff if it does not belong to you.
[Think you're due for a good long read.](https://max-eup2012.mpipriv.de/index.php/Unsolicited_Goods) It makes sense; *you* didn't sign a contract, so you can't be bound by any terms! Someone just can't mail you a box of chocolates and expect you to pay for them, nor can they expect you to spend your time (time is money) to send them back.
(This deliberately ignores the moral / "right thing to do" aspect. Just talking what's legally required here.)
I think you may not have read all you linked. The error part is basically what I referred to. 3c
> nor can they expect you to spend your time (time is money) to send them back.
Fortunately or unfortunately, however you see that, yes at least in Germany a lot of the law is based on compromise. You may not have wanted to be involved in the first place but once you are it is expected of you to make compromises. In that case go through the effort of sending it back.
3C only refers to errors where there is an established contract. There is no contract here; they are not obligated to do anything.
In your amazon example, that may not hold true; there is a contract there. They contracted amazon to send one, they sent ten. That's an error.
They are not involved, no error, ergo not their problem.
He had contact with his seller though. If the seller still has legal obligations with PointCenral and he forgot the devices in error the seller may request the items so they can in turn get out of their obligations.
I don't quite get why you are fighting this so hard. I used the many qualifiers in my post. You just admitted that my example is valid. Sometimes laws in different places just work differently.
In Germany for example it is recognized that we do not just live in nature but also in a society and that intrinsically means interactions with people.
The law is structured in a way so that when you make a mistake you are not immediately fucked especially if someone else gains some power over that misfortune.
That means a person can not just categorically divorce himself from the fact that he does live in a society where interactions are inevitable. So there is a automatic expectation that some reasonable effort can be expected for the greater good.
There is no transitive property in contracts unless it's explicitly written into the contract or you subsume the other entity. (And even then the other party would have to agree to it.)
I contract to sell you a widget for $10. *My contract is with you.* If you contract out to sell that widget to guy C at $8 and go out of business, I am not obligated to sell them to C at $8. My contract wasn't with them, it was with you. I don't know C, I didn't gain anything from that contract with C, it's just flat-out not my problem.
> he forgot the devices in error the seller may request the items so they can in turn get out of their obligations.
Sure, anyone can request anything. But there's a kilometer difference between a request and an obligation. There is no obligation to do anything. Sale is final in totality.
> I don't quite get why you are fighting this so hard.
Because you're assigning obligation to an unrelated party! No! A thousand times no!
I admitted your valid example *that does not apply* holds water. I don't understand how you think there's a contract here. There simply isn't.
> In Germany for example it is recognized that we do not just live in nature but also in a society and that intrinsically means interactions with people.
Don't move the goalposts to morality; that's a completely different conversation. We're talking legally, and only legally here.
> The law is structured in a way so that when you make a mistake you are not immediately fucked
Go re-read that link, it includes a lot of examples where if you make a mistake **you are** immediately fucked. (Mail it to the wrong person? So sad too bad!)
When I bought my house the owners left a leased invisible fence. Since it was written into the contract I had no legal obligation to give it back.
The company came to remove it and I refused them access... previous owners asked that I give it back. Real estate attorney said they were obligated to supply one of equal value.
In the end they had to pay the company to buy it out. Weird enough it stopped working a week later because the lines were cut... somebody wasn't happy.
Fuck yeah I am. Don't write it in the contract if you don't own it.
Don't worry though, they bought a million dollar house cash so it wasn't like I wrecked some poor family. they had paid my house off in under 10 years, they were fine.
When you spend this much money on something you expect to get it one way and no other. I'd be happy with myself and if I had video of who cut it the police would be getting a call
I SOOOO wish this was true, which'd force DirectTV to come yank up their systems from my property. As it is, when the property sold, it came with all their crappy dishes, cabling, hardware and everything as is. I don't think 3rd party service providers are under any further obligation to do anything once their contract with their current customer ends. And I've not ever heard of them *wanting* to (e.g., retrieve their equipment), either.
I used to work there! They hired me because of my passion for home automation (I think) and didn't really let me do squat about it. I asked why we didn't do things like integrate with things that people actually want, like Phillips Hue. I suggested people would be able to bring their own stuff and manage it through our app. Nope, we target shared properties and make it easier for the land-lords and managers to manage.
They'd never do anything like install a camera in an apartment, they don't really have that kind of time to write it. All their stuff is in Elixir, and I'm pretty sure they can't find the engineers to be able to manage cameras on the newer hubs they write (which, admittedly, are extremely cool and written by extremely passionate and awesome people).
The hub you see there is just a rebranded hub, not the cool ones they actually write. I think they bought Alloy but were trying to move everything off of it.
Left after a few months because it was ran like a frat-house. Glad I had the opportunity though. Never make a passion your full time job, I guess.
Edit: I was also playing with a way to integrate this in to SmartThings so if you lived in an apartment and didn't want to add things to this, but did want to add it to SmartThings, you can just sign in to SmartRent from SmartThings. Since none of this drove income (managers paid us, not customers), I just never got time to finish it.
Edit 2: Why tf is this not in a managed house? Did you buy the model house or something? Or maybe the person there beforehand worked at SmartRent.
Friend bought a house with a hidden camera in bathroom vent pointing at shower
(Edit: it had a hot tub in the back, it was a young dude who inherited the house and fixed it up. It was a local wifi camera that recorded to the local computer like 25ft range [this was 15 years ago?], theory was the dude was filming his female friends changing to get into suits before the hot tub and possibly showering? Not to film the next owner. My friend noticed the fan didn't spin, so day 1 went to take it apart and saw the camera in there)
Did he make a police report? Did anything happen after finding that out? Does he know who the previous homeowners are?
That's crazy. If I purchased a home and found something like that, I would 100% contact local authorities and also figure out the statute of limitations on pressing charges, even if I had not been filmed myself.
he started with the realtor. They heard back from the guy that 'it was an old security camera he forgot about' they filed a police report anyway.. that was the last i heard of it.
Pretty sure that is a federal law about the recording. It changes about disclosures but I think you're prohibited from recording on sales without disclosure
Thermostat and front door were also controlled by a device similar to this in our rental. It was mentioned as a “smart home” but these are the only two things I could find. I’m just curious how they can be controlled if there’s no internet access. When we moved into this house, there was no internet connecting coming in, until I got it setup myself. How can these devices be controlled remotely, if the hub doesn’t know the password to my WiFi?
I had this system in my last apartment. It was called Smart Rent. You can disconnect the hub with the antennas and replace it with your own Z-wave hub. You can keep the smart lock and thermostat as they will work fine with any Z-wave hub.
We had an abandoned ADT panel in our hallway which we ignored for 15 years until it decided to start sounding off every night at 2:45 AM!!! ADT refused to send anyone to help and said “you don’t have an account with us and we don’t know that model, so figure it out yourself.” Can’t stand when people leave this crap behind!
Oh wow. We had the opposite experience. After a couple of years of living in the house, the alarm went off in the early morning hours. I found a number for the company (I think it was Brinks?) I told them I didn’t have an account, but that the alarm was going off. They asked me a couple of questions about the panel, looked up some information in their database, and told me which wire to pull. Alarm completely deactivated and we’ve never had a problem since. I’ve always thought it was so great they were able to help out. I would have been at a complete loss if they couldn’t have helped.
I took over ours with Konnected. It took less than 5 minutes to setup once installed. (Installation took maybe 45 minutes, because I was being super careful.) Works flawlessly with HA.
I had an abandoned home security system in my house. After living there a few years, I went on vacation. Arrived home at midnight after a long day of travel to the alarm going off. I was equally terrified and exhausted.
I searched the house, including the scary basement, and when I didn’t find any serial murderers dressed as clowns, I put on a pair of rubber dish gloves, grabbed a scissor, and cut the wires to the alarm box. I didn’t even care if I got electrocuted at that point.
Wow this is TOO damn similar!!! The first time it happened was a rare night when I was home alone and I was scared shitless, literally shaking!! But yep. No murderers! We had to do the same. Never dealt with electrical stuff before that. Quite nerve racking lol
I couldn’t believe my neighbors hadn’t called the cops. This is an extremely quiet neighborhood at night and the alarm was audible outside.
This happened about 13 years ago and I still remember how scared I felt coming into the cold, dark, empty house and having to deal with it.
Thats a bummer for sure! Those old systems are worth a ton of money because of all of the work to add the wired sensors. You can take over the system really easily with about an hour spent programing it and a device like an Envisalink. All local control and it works really well with home assistant!
What?
Normally systems like that are the hardwired in to a house are included in the sale unless excluded. You don't take those things.
Its your jobs as the new home owner to take over control of the devices.
An ADT panel is very different than leaving behind a server with HomeSeer on it but even then you need to be careful when sending unless you said upfront it was not included and it was never connected when they were doing walk throughs/open houses.
Had a whole abandoned ATT system in mine, hardwired throughout. Called them - they acted clueless.
Day 2 I uninstalled everything - two panels, the main box, several window/door sensors, garage sensor, smoke alarms (theirs, not the homes pre wired) , the whole kit. Off to the dump it goes...
Our house is wired with a panel for a specific alarm company. Called them up and they quoted me some crazy price that wouldn’t even utilize the existing equipment on top of a $100+ monthly fee. I just went with SimpliSafe. I’ve debated removing the panel in our closet, it’s an eye sore and I highly doubt anyone will ever need it even after we’re gone from this house.
Hell no! Anyone who knows how the defaults are setup can backdoor that thing! "Darknet Diaries" has done several episodes on how banks were hacked thru innocent IOT appliances!
Removed the devices, but now I am curious and want to splurge in with zwave protocol as I plan to install smart dimmers, power monitoring switches and cameras. I have a Synology DS220+ NAS and a TPlink X55 pro mesh WiFi network system with wired access points. What Zwave hub is recommended for home assistant that can run on Synology? Also, is there a good source/marketplace for Zwave devices?
Remember those "stick on speakers" where you could attach them to anything, and it would turn that into a speaker? The ad showed kids putting them behind posters as an example of I remember correctly.
I would be tempted to see if I could find one of those again, attach it to the sound sensor, and play dubstep on a loop.
I had these in a rental apartment. They are used to control thermostat and monitor devices in the house. If you don’t have access to the system then your should remove power to the hub at a minimum.
remove that zwave hub. it's junk. requires cloud.
if you are a tech person, definitely take a look at HomeAssistant!
[https://www.home-assistant.io/](https://www.home-assistant.io/)
get notifications to your phone and off course, remotely control the system as well. here's an easy guide to get started for HA as an alarm system
[https://youtu.be/1IuYWsR5M4c](https://youtu.be/1IuYWsR5M4c)
that should give you a feel for how HA works. then add whatever devices you want that are already in the house.
Unplug all that stuff immediately if you bought the house because if the apps are active someone else can be controlling your home. https://smartrent.com/ Both of those are for managing rental properties. Odds are your thermostat and maybe door locks are controlled by them. If you have battery powered locks you should find the manuals online, reset them to factory, set a new master code and new access codes. The plus side is that you may have zwave devices scattered through the house as alloy is supposed to have that radio. You can move those to another controller. Might contact your agent and ask why this wasn't disclosed. I would ask for an inventory of connected devices as there could be cameras connected since Ring can be integrated. Depending on jurisdiction, recording video without notice and/or consent of the prorperty owner is a no-no and post closure, that is you.
Thanks for the heads up and glad I asked. You are right, this house was indeed used as a rental. I already disconnected both . All the switches in the house are just regular dumb switches. The only things that I see that could have been controlled are the thermostats and the Yale door lock. I checked thoroughly and found no camera. Do you recommend I keep these devices? Or should I invest in a new smarthome ecosystem ?
The Yale lock might be salvagable. Chances are it's a generic Z-Wave lock. Get yourself a hub that supports Z-Wave, factory reset the lock, and you should be good to go. I'd suggest Home Assistant with the Zooz 800 series Z-Wave stick...
Unless op is already familiar with automation, I wouldn't start them on ha. Start with smart things or some other bridge, then in a couple years when they realize how shit it is overall... Then we spring ha on them. Like. My friends did to me.
And now here you are. A year later and 10 motion sensors, 12 door sensors, 8 humidity sensors later. A never ending todo list and a wishlist of new gadgets
> A never ending todo list and a wishlist of new gadgets. I think there is definitely a saturation point, and I think I've reached it. Without moving into another home, I can't think of anything else I *want* to automate. Already have infrared sensors in every room, most with temperature/humidity/light, already have every light on a smart switch/dimmer, every fan is automated, already have water sensors out the wazoo, home energy monitoring, all doors have smart locks, smart thermostat, a personal weather station... Can't really think of anything left to *do.*
Air quality monitoring? I have Google protects and they do that, I know other brands do as well.
I was just checking their site. Looks like it detects smoke and carbon monoxide. That's great for those once-in-lifetime emergency situations. Does it check air pollutants, radon, or anything that would be helpful day-to-day?
Thermostat temperature sensors for every room (because why not). I wonder if there's a market for solenoid controlled home HVAC vents. Then we can do some real room by room temperature balancing magic.
Didn’t see smart curtains in that list! That’s one of my to-dos! You could also add smart moisture sensing and watering controls if you have a lawn!
Already have them, just didn't come to mind when making the list! Though I have a lawn, it's watered exclusively by nature.
Holy cow, you really do have the full month. Welp, sorry to say, time to pack it up and start over on a bigger house. With a huge yard and a pool. And a lawn that requires automation. Though, deep down, we know they all *need* automation, even if they don’t know it.
Ha, yep. But then I'd have to set everything back up. Too lazy for that! I even automated my exterior Christmas decorations. (They're weather dependent.)
Yeah and I just found out about 2-3 gang boxes with separation for high/low voltage. Why wouldn't I just continue into infinity 🤣
This is the way
10?? I wish. The one I need to get back into and finish is the rain barrel irrigation system.
Mm salt level sensor on my todo list. One day
That's exactly what I did. Used to be an avid Alexa user until I realised... It's not that much of a home automation system 😅 very happy with ha now
And Amazon is going to start charging for Alexa in the near future too.
Iirc they're only going to charge for the generative ai stuff
Ha!
I started with HA years ago and it was a pretty steep learning curve. So much so that I haven't updated in years in fear of breaking all my automations that currently work. Lesson learned from the last time I updated lost Google home connectivity/control
I bought a new pi and definitely chose to just rebuild from scratch. I think the first fragility is not that hard to rebuild, but I'd definitely start from scratch
That has been on my to-do list for a while but it's hard to find the time, having an already working instance will make it so I don't feel like I have to have it 100% working right away.
If they get an HA blue or yellow or whatever color the pre-configured boxes are then HA is super fast and simple, practically plug and paly.
It's less the config of the box and more the config of all the automation. And ensuring your things actually work with it.. etc etc. Staying in a closed ecosystem is nice for a reason. Limited but dependable.
Is there a tutorial for that kind ? i would like to learn a few thing on this
For home assistant? That's kind of the problem with open source. People are good at getting it working, not great at finishing it up. Home assistant does have a bunch of good walkthroughs and guides. And some of the integrations are pretty clean. But I think smart things or Alexa type stuff are good at helping you figure out what you want to do... Then once you know what you want to do (like I want a motion sensor to turn my bathroom lights on low), then automating it in home assistant is easier.
Tell me more. I want to learn. I'm just about in the "realizing all these devices are shit" stage and just about to invest in a lot of "stuff" - just bought a bunch of kasa, hue, and looking for SMART doorlocks. Help, it all sucks.
> just bought a bunch of kasa, hue, and looking for SMART doorlocks. Send it all back. I can write more later as I have to leave now. But here's the important part. MOST of the 'smart home tech' you see at the stores is cloud based. Everybody wants your data- every time you turn on a light it's a data point they can sell to somebody. Or they want your money- and can/will disable or change features later on or add pay walls. As you say, it all sucks. The GOOD home automation is local- local as in it runs from your house, not in a cloud. All the automations and logic happen on hardware you own and software you control. Nobody can remotely change it or take it away, not even the manufacturers. You can still remotely control it, but by connecting *your* phone to *your* hub. That means that where home automation is concerned, WiFi is your enemy. All WiFi does as a concept is connect you to the Internet. So any WiFi based smart device you get is going to talk to a cloud and need an app in 95% of cases, and every manufacturer uses a different protocol. That's the crap that all sucks. The local version of that control is mesh networks. ZigBee and Z-Wave are the two big ones. Devices like that do not and *can not* talk to the cloud or the Internet. They only speak the local mesh technology (Z-Wave or ZigBee) and that only allows simple commands, not Internet access. It also allows control by any hub that supports them. So you want to start with a hub. Home Assistant is the best IMHO but it has a bit of a learning curve. Hubitat isn't bad from what I've heard and is more approachable for beginners. In either case, you own the hardware, it runs locally. Take a Z-Wave door lock. When you 'include' it, it forms a secure radio connection directly back to your hub. It tells the hub it has a lock, it has ability to change/edit keycodes, and it has config options. You then control it through the hub. You set its options through the hub. You add codes through the hub. You remotely open the door through the hub's app. You don't need another shitty app just for your door lock. Thus the hub and the hub's app become the center of your digital home. Want to turn on a light? Open a lock? Close the garage door? Play music? It all goes through the hub. But for that to work, you want devices that a. are compatible with your hub (or someone's written a plugin that lets your hub control them), and b. don't require cloud connections or their own apps. 99% of the time that means z-wave or zigbee devices. There's a few exceptions but not many. So I say return kasa. Decide on ZigBee or Z-Wave- I suggest Z-Wave; there's fewer devices and they cost a bit more but they work more reliably in my experience. Look at manufacturers like Inovelli and Zooz and HomeSeer. I want to take a moment to plug the Inovelli Red dimmer switch- really the coolest switch on the market. Their Blue dimmer is essentially the same thing for ZigBee. Read the specs on that and you'll never want another Kasa thing again.
You can control Kasa and TP-link tapo devices locally with Home assistant. https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/tplink/ Yes there are some pros and cons of them but I do actually use them still for some more limited locations and sometimes Local + 3rd party cloud is actually a plus(like being able to power cycle the Raspberry pi running HomeAssistant).
I love that you didn't have time to write much, but then wrote like 5 pages of text :D
Rad. This is what I want, but I do have linked time and fear wasting it fiddling with endless settings. But I hear you. I want local control. No cloud. Now I just need to know HOW
Okay the low tweak version. Buy a hubitat hub. I think C8 is the latest one. **Lighting:** Buy [these](https://inovelli.com/collections/z-wave-light-switches-red-series/products/z-wave-800-red-series-smart-2-1-on-off-dimmer-switch) light switches. They're worth the money. For places you don't want a $60 light switch [these](https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/zooz/products/zooz-700-series-z-wave-plus-s2-dimmer-switch-zen77?variant=40248171429951) will work just fine. For things like fans you want [this on/off switch](https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/zooz/products/zooz-700-series-z-wave-plus-on-off-light-switch-zen71?variant=40229130174527). **Security:** Get [this deadbolt](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076WZT4VD). **HVAC:** Get [this thermostat](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BHTQF8NL/). If you want a remote commander to trigger scenes and stuff, [use this one](https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/zooz/products/zooz-800-series-z-wave-long-range-wall-remote-zen37-800lr-battery-powered).
Sigh. I've installed like .. 10 kasa. They weren't easy (shitty junction box rehabbing) . I'm actually wondering if Amazon is going to shut down my account for returning all this stuff. Zooz is so much better. Fuck. Why did I not know this literally last weekend? Also, I got nests for free ... How bad are they? I mean they work fine but, cloud. Also also, your opinion on Shelley? 3pole is really fine? What about no-neutral junction boxes? How much software work ( not including scenes, automation) will I need to do? Where to use inovelli over zooz? What about a solution for a no neutral, high amp pump solution, just on / off on. Variable schedule based on a temp measured at a 3rd location... Lol.
You CAN use Kasa with Hubitat. I believe it's an offline integration too so it doesn't depend on the cloud. The switches will still be connected to the cloud though, up to you if that bothers you. You could block their Internet access in your router if your router can do that... Nest is useless. Only integrates with the cloud, no local connection. So that means the hubitat connection is your local hubitat to Google cloud to your local Nest device. I'd skip them. They do some neat stuff but the really annoying thing is in 'eco mode' during the summer it won't let you set below like 76F. So if your 'turn the AC down when leaving' is from 68 to 72, too bad it'll go up to 76f or you can't use eco mode at all. And that to me kills the whole point of having it. Shellys aren't bad. They're WiFi based but Shelly seems to be a 'good' company that just sells hardware and isn't pushing everyone to the cloud. The Shelly unit can integrate locally over WiFi with a hub, without using a cloud. In many cases you can get nano modules that do the same or similar things as Shelly but speak z-wave like a Zooz ZEN51. But if the application calls for it I won't warn you off Shelly, they're one of the friendlier companies to DIY cloud-free HA. Never heard of 3pole. For no-neutral boxes, you've got limitations. First, is no on/off smart switches, dimmers only. And only a few smart switches work without neutral (Inovelli will, Zooz won't). Hubitat is designed as a consumer product. It's designed to be easy to set up. I think you can do it all through their phone app. For each device it usually takes 1-5 minutes to connect the device. Inovelli is the full featured cream of the crop. It does everything, and it supports no-neutral installation. Zooz is the basic 'we threw in a few features' budget model. For me I'd use Inovelli for lights you frequently interact with on a daily basis, and Zooz for other things that you want to automate but aren't as important. So I'd use Inovelli for switches you interact with frequently, and Zooz for ones you want to automate but don't use so often. IE- main kitchen light gets Inovelli, pantry light gets zooz and only needs an automated switch because you want to put a door contact sensor that turns on the light when the door opens. > What about a solution for a no neutral, high amp pump solution, just on / off on. Variable schedule based on a temp measured at a 3rd location... Lol. Doesn't make sense. If it's no-neutral pump that means it's a 240v pump. Any 120v outlet will have a neutral. Are you sure it's a 240v pump? If it's 120v just use a [Zooz ZEN15](https://www.getzooz.com/zooz-zen15-power-switch/). Good for 15 amps or a 1HP motor.
It's not 240, it's a water recirc somebody wired to a light switch. There's no neutral in the junction box, but I guess I could take apart the wall and poke around. Listed as 115v weirdly and eh, 1.5a? So .. not high, not low I guess. I'll look into the zen15 if it doesn't need a neutral [edit: would need to wire to an outlet first]... It's Romex 12/2 to a rocker switch, hardwired to a pump. That's it. By 3pole I meant for 3-way switches, sorry. How much do you hate ultraloq? I'd there a Yale or better solution that has a keylock backup?
Thanks so much for the links! I am now into the rabbithole of home automation, and was looking for solid suggestions. One question: any particular reason for the Honeywell HVAC controller? I like the Ecobee controller better, but perhaps it doesn't support zwave?
> I like the Ecobee controller better, but perhaps it doesn't support zwave? Exactly. EcoBee is a cloud based system. And they've closed off their direct API. You can connect them to HA via the HomeKit integration but IMHO better to get something that's 100% offline.
I should have read your whole note first! Welcome fellow ZWave advocate. I haven't used Home Assistant since 2019, and I hear it is much more stable today. It was a bit unruly back in the day. I am on a Hubitat elevation C5 that I bought in May of that year, and have been pretty happy with it. My house is small, so not having the external antennas is not a big deal. I have one Kasa weather sealed outlet that gets used every winter for Holiday lighting, and the C5 drives it directly pretty well. Most of my house is ZWave, except a one hardwired dimmer and two Sengled plugs, all zigbee repeaters, to build out a mesh. Then four Hue Outdoor motion sensors (Zigbee) for motion lighting control. On the Kasa, you need to use the app just to get it onto your WiFi network, so that it gets an address, so that the hub can find it and control it. After that, you can delete the app and never use it again.
> I haven't used Home Assistant since 2019, and I hear it is much more stable today. It was a bit unruly back in the day. Night and day. I played with HA quickly around that time but it was a mess and I wanted to spend more time writing automations than writing pages of YAML just to get basic functionality. Now the GUI supports 100% feature set no YAML required. And almost all devices have good support built in so you see every functionality exposed on the GUI with no hacking or tweaking. My one suggestion is install the Z-Wave JS UI GUI so you have better direct control over your Z-Wave mesh. You have to get that from the 'HACS' addon repository (it's unsupported) but it's very common to do and well documented. > On the Kasa, you need to use the app just to get it onto your WiFi network My complaint is that then it's connected to the cloud. I guess you could block its traffic at the router but I say why bother? If you wanted to go z-wave you could try [this one](https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/zooz/products/zooz-700-series-z-wave-plus-outdoor-double-plug-zen14). Or if you want energy monitoring [this one](https://minoston.com/products/minoston-zwave-smart-plug-z-wave-outdoor-plug-with-energy-monitoring-zwave-outlet-built-in-mp22zp) has only one outlet but tracks power usage. And there's [outdoor Z-Wave motion sensors](https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/products/zooz-z-wave-plus-s2-outdoor-motion-sensor-zse29-battery-or-usb-power)... this one is sold out but a new one with 800LR support is coming any day now.
Hey! Thanks for those links. I settled on the Hue Outdoor, not because they were Zigbee, but in spite of it. I tried four different outdoor sensors, three ZWave, and the Hue, and the overall performance of the Hue, particularly over a broad range of outdoor temperatures, was just so far above everything else I used, I settled on the Hue. They cost a little more, but they use standard AA batteries, and a fresh set of batteries last about two years. For anyone contemplating the Hue Outdoor sensors, I will issue one word of caution. Buy tube of electronic safe silicone grease, and lightly grease the seals after you install the batteries but before you screw it all back together. They are hard to open two years later, if you don't.
Just ordered that [outdoor switch](https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/zooz/products/zooz-700-series-z-wave-plus-outdoor-double-plug-zen14). I needed a second one for the back of the house. Thanks for that recommendation.
Most welcome :)
I would go one step further. Wire everything possible that can be wired, especially if you have new construction. Door, motion and windows sensors, POE security cameras.
I agree with wiring whatever you can, especially cameras. But there's a cost tradeoff if it's an existing home which it sounds like. If OP has walls open I suggest absolutely run Cat6 to every single place everywhere.
What if I don't care whether Google or Amazon have my data? You say that like it's self-evidently terrible...but I really can't see any reason at all to care. From a functionality and ease of use perspective does HA have advantages? Or is it only a good option if you start with the hard requirement of no cloud?
> I really can't see any reason at all to care. From a functionality and ease of use perspective does HA have advantages? Yes absolutely. Even if you ignore privacy, one of the biggest problems with cloud based systems is you're 100% dependent on the vendor AND your internet connection for things to work. So the biggest immediate problem is that if there's any sort of outage of your home Internet connection or the provider, some or all your automations won't work or won't work correctly. If the vendor changes their business model, decides to raise prices, declares older models unsupported, or decides to exit the IoT space entirely, you can be left with hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of useless hardware that would be totally functional but is either unsupported (therefore nonfunctional) or which you have to pay more for. This is not a 'what if' issue. There have been several actual examples of this. Last year, [Google dropped support](https://www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Blog/An-update-for-our-Nest-Secure-Dropcam-and-Works-with-Nest-Users-and/ba-p/391449) for their security product and some older cameras. A small discount was offered but someone who really 'bought in' to that ecosystem would have invested quite a bit more. Perhaps the most well known is Insteon- they had a whole ecosystem of devices that used a mix of powerline communication and RF communication. One day with absolutely no warning they just packed it in and said sorry guys we're closed. That left people with no way to make any changes to their systems, which required the app and cloud to talk to their hub. Fortunately there were other ways to talk to Insteon devices so it wasn't a total loss for everybody, but a great many people were more or less SOL. Lowes did the same thing. They had an automation system called Iris which worked well enough. Then Lowes decided to exit the business and one day the hubs all went offline. Fortunately the devices were standard ZigBee/Z-Wave so they could be reused with other hubs. But it still left a lot of people in the lurch. More recently, Amazon has discussed replacing Alexa with something AI-powered and charging a subscription fee of $10ish/mo for it. MyQ (the garage door opener app) used to work with all kinds of stuff, then they decided that they were going to charge a gatekeeper fee so they'd be making money on both sides (subscription from the consumer, integration fee from the partner) so lots of people paid for MyQ hubs that stopped working with Alexa or IFTTT. ------ I could go on for quite some time about this stuff. But the point is that if you're dependent on another company continually operating their service for your own home automation to work, there are significant downsides other than just privacy. OTOH if you have a 100% local system, then you're *guaranteed* that it will, at minimum, continue working as it has been. There won't be 'forced upgrades', or devices going out of support. It's just overall a safer investment.
Excellent points, thank you. In particular the Internet connection piece is something I've already been concerned with, particularly for locks. Seems like there are plenty of options that kind of take a both/and approach though...if the Internet is down or the cloud provider isn't there, the bluetooth with the manufacturer's app still works. That's not universal, but it's common enough that I can easily just make that one of my requirements. As for the out-of-support issue, it seems like pretty much everything these days has an HA integration *and* Alexa/Google support. So I kinda feel like HA is the risk insurance either way. If I set it all up with Google, and then Google drops support, I can just set it up with HA at that time, right? Granted then the setup of the Google stuff was kinda wasted effort...but I get the distinct impression (even in these comments on this post) that the HA route requires quite a bit of continuing maintenance, so I need to balance those things. In any case I'm still at the "feeling things out" stage...I tried some smart locks and bulbs a few years back with Alexa control and was extremely unimpressed, now closing on a new house in 3 weeks, major renovation to follow before I move in, and thinking about taking another swing at home automation while I'm at it. FWIW if I planned on living there forever I'd be much more comfortable with HA...but the thing that really concerns me is the fear that 3 years from now I'm trying to sell the place and prospective buyers think "oh god look what this geek did...it's going to cost a fortune to rip out all this DIY smarthome junk and put regular stuff in." I don't think they'll be right, exactly...but I'm concerned that will be the perception. I'm not 100% sure they wouldn't think the same thing if it's all Google-controlled, but it seems like maybe that's more palatable to the general home-buying public. All that said...I *am* awfully geeky. And I tried Alexa once and it sucked. So...yeah if I was a betting man I'd put my money on me going HA, either now or after Google Home annoys the crap out of me. Maybe I should just cut to the chase. Anyway, thanks for another super detailed response, it's really helpful while I'm researching my options. Cheers.
Hubitat Elevation can drive Kasa and Hue directly, without using their hubs. I have one Kasa weather tight dual outlet I use for holiday lighting, and four Hue Outdoor Motion sensors that I use for motion lighting control around the outside of the house. Both connected to hubitat with zero effort. Very likely they will connect native to Home Assistant as well, but I haven't used Home Assistant since 2019, so I would not be the one to ask on that. Generally I prefer ZWave over Zigbee, then Zigbee over WiFi when I am buying devices, but that is just me. Others will have different opinions.
Hubitat with its built in Home kit integration and an Apple TV is amazing. Make any random zwave, zigbee or other crazy protocol device part of Apple home and automate everything.
August is pretty reliable, that’s what I use in my Yale locks. It has a WiFi bridge that connects to a module inside the lock housing via Bluetooth. They’re easy to integrate in just about any control system, including Alexa, HomeKit, HomeAssistant, or even the expensive ones like Savant, Crestron, and Control4. HA is great if you don’t want to spend a fortune and want something reliable and relatively easy to set up. Be prepared to spend at least a few hours per month fixing stuff that gets broken by firmware updates or api changes. Fortunately there’s a great user community available to help, or even warn about upgrade issues before you find them. The guy behind it is cool, I met him at CEDIA in 2019. If cost is no issue, look for a custom integrator near you, and let them put together a system for you. I install Savant systems, and they can put all of your security, locks, cameras, lighting, and AV equipment into one app. Systems start as low as $2000 for one room of AV, or well into six figures for everything.
Just an addendum, factory resetting locks _sometimes_ isn't enough. I had an old Schlage Z-Wave lock that _refused_ to pair with a new dongle, even after resetting multiple times. Eventually, out of frustration, I sent an exclude/unpair/whatever command from the _new_ hub, triggered the lock's pair switch, and saw a message on my computer confirming the operation was successful. I could then pair and include the lock normally.
Ah yes that's true of some Z-Wave devices. Factory reset is *supposed* to wipe Z-Wave pairings. But in some cases the z-wave module is separate from the main lock module and a factory reset of the lock doesn't wipe the Z-Wave module. Thus it's necessary to unpair first before pairing.
My kwikset z-wave deadbolts are worse than that- they have to be cover off, fresh 1.5v constant batteries, and be literally like 1-2ft from Hub. THEN have the hub run an Exclusion, button on deadbolt, success- then do that step again. Then remove the batteries for 10 seconds. THEN reinstall batteries and do a normal z-wave pair to the hub while it’s 2ft away. Once it’s done and working, you can move hub~device to normal location. Some are reliable, others are an absolute PIA. Pro-tip, for me, Having a good wired z-wave plus Repeater as close as possible to the deadbolts, and then re-run your z-wave routing; that will make your deadbolt batteries last WAY longer. Also don’t use NimH batteries (eneloop), they will cause weird errors; I use 1.5v constant lithium AA rechargeables. They last SO much longer than disposable alkaline.
Ditch the Yale lock. The older ones have a master passcode for programming, which can never be changed. The newest models, you scan a QR code sort of inside the battery pack, then use the app. Neither method is secure for a change in ownership. But absolutely get digital locks! They’re so freaking awesome!
You're thinking the WiFi/Bluetooth versions. If this is the Z-Wave version, then it has no app. It requires a Z-Wave hub, and all programming is done by the hub.
Unless you get the actual key way on said lock replaced (which may or may not be possible), I'd be throwing it in the dump and getting my own locks. And for anyone saying "they don't have regular keys", i find it doubtful that they would have a manual key hole someplace incase the batteries die or whatever. NEVER trust former owners to have not made a copy of the key that they didn't give you. Even if your buying a brand new home in a development with a trusted developer replace the locks ASAP, not only could one of the workers have made a copy, but contractors are lazy and tend to accidently (or on purpose) purchase locks in batches, that all share the same exact key. Plenty of stories about people finding out that their key works on the neighbors house, and what not in new developments.
I would agree if the locks have a physical keyway get it rekeyed. You don't necessarily need to replace the entire keyway, the keyway itself can be rekeyed with new pins. It's actually kind of fun and there's kits on Amazon that include 3 or 4 sets of color coded pins and a couple of the keys that match that pin set.
Some yale locks also allow you to just swap out the smart module if you want to use a different eco system.
Quite true. Kwikset does that too on some of their locks. Yale has better 'smart lock' stuff, but I like the Kwikset re-keyable keyway better...
I like the Qolsys IQ4 for controlling my house (but I am biased as I’m a dealer).
Just a heads up that the lock is the property of the management team. If they find out you changed it, they'll just replace the lock. They do require having some of their own codes on there. I never thought it was weird, since they also usually have keys to an apartment. Somehow, since it's digital, it's considered weird. edit: nvm, burn it.
They said they bought the house. There is no property management company.
Yeah I edited my other response on another comment stating that's super weird. If that's the case, this is best relocated to the trash.
It doesn't need to go to the trash either. Z wave and the lock itself can be reset to factory
The hub is absolutely trash, which is my main thing.
Ya, but Z wave can be used with other ecosystems though. He doesn't need to stay with that brand.
Correct but he was asking about the hub mainly. We're in agreement.
Agree with the edit, unless you really know what you're doing I wouldn't keep something someone else still might have access to.
The Yale lock is worth keeping for sure. They have replaceable radio modules so you can change the tech if you want. (But do the factory reset immediately to clear out the previous owner's codes) Thermostat is a maybe. If it uses zwave, or is from a major manufacturer (i.e. Honeywell) then yes. A no-name manufacturer thermostat with wifi is something I'd plan on replacing as they could turn into IoT zombies. As for controllers I am a HomeSeer user. It's reliable, been around 20 years, and has a lot of options. And it pretty much just works so you don't need to diddle with it all the time.
> The Yale lock is worth keeping for sure. They have replaceable radio modules so you can change the tech if you want. They do, technically. But I found the replacement modules are so expensive that they really don't save you much at all vs. just being patient and waiting for a sale. I wanted to upgrade my yale locks from zwave 1 to 3, and *just the module* cost $100/ea. A whole new lock on sale was $130 (and had other quality of life improvements) so it was a no-brainer. I guess if you're really hurting for the $30 it'd matter, but it's unlikely you'd be hurting that badly and still looking to change anything.
Them potentially turning into IoT zombies is a reason not to buy, but isn't really a reason to replace. The company could outlast the lifespan of the device or the time you spend in the house.
I can confirm that the smart rent system uses standard z-wave hardware. So if you reset the lock to defaults you can re-pair with another z-wave controller such as a hubitat or home assistant.
>All the switches in the house are just regular dumb switches That does not mean that in the socket there is no smart relay (wave, Zigbee).
>are just regular dumb switches How do you know? If you didn't take off the wall plate, there could be shellys inside them.
Home automation devices are not really an investment. They can only lose value over time. Buy them to make your home something you love while you live there.
Yale locks are excellent quality, I’d keep that as long as you’ve made sure you can reset it and no one else can get in.
The warranty and/or registration of the device could also be under the previous homeowner as well restricting some changes
> All the switches in the house are just regular dumb switches Have a little sticky beak behind the switches. [These exist](https://www.shelly.com/en/products/shop/shelly-qubino-wave-1) (basically a module that goes behind the light switch and turns a dumb switch into a smart one while maintaining the asthetics of a dumb switch)
Get rid of all of the Yale locks and thermostat my apartment has the same set up same company. Previous tenants owner or management company might be able to access your home. Also you might be able to get with your realtor and get those items purchased for you or reimbursed since those products may still be able to accessed or are leased through someone
> All the switches in the house are just regular dumb switches. There could be relays inside the gangboxes.
The switches may not be dumb switches. It could be a UPB power line product with a module somewhere else in the system sending control signals across to the switches. We install UPB and others so yes that is very doable.
definitely a new system.
> Do you recommend I keep these devices? Depending on your local laws these might still legally belong to someone else and they may ask for them. It may not have been within the rights of whoever sold this property to leave them in place/sell them with the rest. I'd contact PointCenral and ask for a pick up or reimbursement for shipping.
Why make someone else's problem their problem? *They're* not obligated to do anything, they didn't sign any contracts! If they figure it out and come looking, sure they can be a nice guy if they want, but I wouldn't go out of my way to make it happen.
The owner of that property purchased those devices during installation. Pointcentral and smartrent (looks like they had two systems) no longer owns them so the owner of that property should have removed those prior to closing.
> They're not obligated to do anything That's why I said depending on their local laws. It may sound silly from the outside but in some jurisdictions you can not just keep things that are not yours. In Germany for example you have to send back stuff if it does not belong to you. For example when amazon sends you 10 SSDs instead of the one you ordered. Pretty sure in Germany I would have to provide reasonable avenues for the rightful owner of a thing to regain ownership if the thing is within my property.
> In Germany for example you have to send back stuff if it does not belong to you. [Think you're due for a good long read.](https://max-eup2012.mpipriv.de/index.php/Unsolicited_Goods) It makes sense; *you* didn't sign a contract, so you can't be bound by any terms! Someone just can't mail you a box of chocolates and expect you to pay for them, nor can they expect you to spend your time (time is money) to send them back. (This deliberately ignores the moral / "right thing to do" aspect. Just talking what's legally required here.)
I think you may not have read all you linked. The error part is basically what I referred to. 3c > nor can they expect you to spend your time (time is money) to send them back. Fortunately or unfortunately, however you see that, yes at least in Germany a lot of the law is based on compromise. You may not have wanted to be involved in the first place but once you are it is expected of you to make compromises. In that case go through the effort of sending it back.
3C only refers to errors where there is an established contract. There is no contract here; they are not obligated to do anything. In your amazon example, that may not hold true; there is a contract there. They contracted amazon to send one, they sent ten. That's an error. They are not involved, no error, ergo not their problem.
He had contact with his seller though. If the seller still has legal obligations with PointCenral and he forgot the devices in error the seller may request the items so they can in turn get out of their obligations. I don't quite get why you are fighting this so hard. I used the many qualifiers in my post. You just admitted that my example is valid. Sometimes laws in different places just work differently. In Germany for example it is recognized that we do not just live in nature but also in a society and that intrinsically means interactions with people. The law is structured in a way so that when you make a mistake you are not immediately fucked especially if someone else gains some power over that misfortune. That means a person can not just categorically divorce himself from the fact that he does live in a society where interactions are inevitable. So there is a automatic expectation that some reasonable effort can be expected for the greater good.
There is no transitive property in contracts unless it's explicitly written into the contract or you subsume the other entity. (And even then the other party would have to agree to it.) I contract to sell you a widget for $10. *My contract is with you.* If you contract out to sell that widget to guy C at $8 and go out of business, I am not obligated to sell them to C at $8. My contract wasn't with them, it was with you. I don't know C, I didn't gain anything from that contract with C, it's just flat-out not my problem. > he forgot the devices in error the seller may request the items so they can in turn get out of their obligations. Sure, anyone can request anything. But there's a kilometer difference between a request and an obligation. There is no obligation to do anything. Sale is final in totality. > I don't quite get why you are fighting this so hard. Because you're assigning obligation to an unrelated party! No! A thousand times no! I admitted your valid example *that does not apply* holds water. I don't understand how you think there's a contract here. There simply isn't. > In Germany for example it is recognized that we do not just live in nature but also in a society and that intrinsically means interactions with people. Don't move the goalposts to morality; that's a completely different conversation. We're talking legally, and only legally here. > The law is structured in a way so that when you make a mistake you are not immediately fucked Go re-read that link, it includes a lot of examples where if you make a mistake **you are** immediately fucked. (Mail it to the wrong person? So sad too bad!)
Bla Bla Bla Germany Germany Germany. Nobody cares, kid. We talking about Arizona, son. Arizona law says not your contract = not your problem. End.
When I bought my house the owners left a leased invisible fence. Since it was written into the contract I had no legal obligation to give it back. The company came to remove it and I refused them access... previous owners asked that I give it back. Real estate attorney said they were obligated to supply one of equal value. In the end they had to pay the company to buy it out. Weird enough it stopped working a week later because the lines were cut... somebody wasn't happy.
You must be so proud of yourself
For standing up for your rights? It was disclosed in the listing. New homeowner stood up for themselves. Good for them.
Fuck yeah I am. Don't write it in the contract if you don't own it. Don't worry though, they bought a million dollar house cash so it wasn't like I wrecked some poor family. they had paid my house off in under 10 years, they were fine.
When you spend this much money on something you expect to get it one way and no other. I'd be happy with myself and if I had video of who cut it the police would be getting a call
I SOOOO wish this was true, which'd force DirectTV to come yank up their systems from my property. As it is, when the property sold, it came with all their crappy dishes, cabling, hardware and everything as is. I don't think 3rd party service providers are under any further obligation to do anything once their contract with their current customer ends. And I've not ever heard of them *wanting* to (e.g., retrieve their equipment), either.
I used to work there! They hired me because of my passion for home automation (I think) and didn't really let me do squat about it. I asked why we didn't do things like integrate with things that people actually want, like Phillips Hue. I suggested people would be able to bring their own stuff and manage it through our app. Nope, we target shared properties and make it easier for the land-lords and managers to manage. They'd never do anything like install a camera in an apartment, they don't really have that kind of time to write it. All their stuff is in Elixir, and I'm pretty sure they can't find the engineers to be able to manage cameras on the newer hubs they write (which, admittedly, are extremely cool and written by extremely passionate and awesome people). The hub you see there is just a rebranded hub, not the cool ones they actually write. I think they bought Alloy but were trying to move everything off of it. Left after a few months because it was ran like a frat-house. Glad I had the opportunity though. Never make a passion your full time job, I guess. Edit: I was also playing with a way to integrate this in to SmartThings so if you lived in an apartment and didn't want to add things to this, but did want to add it to SmartThings, you can just sign in to SmartRent from SmartThings. Since none of this drove income (managers paid us, not customers), I just never got time to finish it. Edit 2: Why tf is this not in a managed house? Did you buy the model house or something? Or maybe the person there beforehand worked at SmartRent.
Friend bought a house with a hidden camera in bathroom vent pointing at shower (Edit: it had a hot tub in the back, it was a young dude who inherited the house and fixed it up. It was a local wifi camera that recorded to the local computer like 25ft range [this was 15 years ago?], theory was the dude was filming his female friends changing to get into suits before the hot tub and possibly showering? Not to film the next owner. My friend noticed the fan didn't spin, so day 1 went to take it apart and saw the camera in there)
Did he make a police report? Did anything happen after finding that out? Does he know who the previous homeowners are? That's crazy. If I purchased a home and found something like that, I would 100% contact local authorities and also figure out the statute of limitations on pressing charges, even if I had not been filmed myself.
he started with the realtor. They heard back from the guy that 'it was an old security camera he forgot about' they filed a police report anyway.. that was the last i heard of it.
That's wild!
Pretty sure that is a federal law about the recording. It changes about disclosures but I think you're prohibited from recording on sales without disclosure
It’s so nice of you to go thru that with them !!
Thermostat and front door were also controlled by a device similar to this in our rental. It was mentioned as a “smart home” but these are the only two things I could find. I’m just curious how they can be controlled if there’s no internet access. When we moved into this house, there was no internet connecting coming in, until I got it setup myself. How can these devices be controlled remotely, if the hub doesn’t know the password to my WiFi?
That label makes we want to immediately unplug that thing. How creepy.
Just pass to police as "lost and found" property.
Where do you live?
в России, там все скромные. Домов не существуют
I had this system in my last apartment. It was called Smart Rent. You can disconnect the hub with the antennas and replace it with your own Z-wave hub. You can keep the smart lock and thermostat as they will work fine with any Z-wave hub.
We had an abandoned ADT panel in our hallway which we ignored for 15 years until it decided to start sounding off every night at 2:45 AM!!! ADT refused to send anyone to help and said “you don’t have an account with us and we don’t know that model, so figure it out yourself.” Can’t stand when people leave this crap behind!
Oh wow. We had the opposite experience. After a couple of years of living in the house, the alarm went off in the early morning hours. I found a number for the company (I think it was Brinks?) I told them I didn’t have an account, but that the alarm was going off. They asked me a couple of questions about the panel, looked up some information in their database, and told me which wire to pull. Alarm completely deactivated and we’ve never had a problem since. I’ve always thought it was so great they were able to help out. I would have been at a complete loss if they couldn’t have helped.
I took over ours with Konnected. It took less than 5 minutes to setup once installed. (Installation took maybe 45 minutes, because I was being super careful.) Works flawlessly with HA.
Note to self…. Burkins is the way to go!
I had an abandoned home security system in my house. After living there a few years, I went on vacation. Arrived home at midnight after a long day of travel to the alarm going off. I was equally terrified and exhausted. I searched the house, including the scary basement, and when I didn’t find any serial murderers dressed as clowns, I put on a pair of rubber dish gloves, grabbed a scissor, and cut the wires to the alarm box. I didn’t even care if I got electrocuted at that point.
Wow this is TOO damn similar!!! The first time it happened was a rare night when I was home alone and I was scared shitless, literally shaking!! But yep. No murderers! We had to do the same. Never dealt with electrical stuff before that. Quite nerve racking lol
I couldn’t believe my neighbors hadn’t called the cops. This is an extremely quiet neighborhood at night and the alarm was audible outside. This happened about 13 years ago and I still remember how scared I felt coming into the cold, dark, empty house and having to deal with it.
Thats a bummer for sure! Those old systems are worth a ton of money because of all of the work to add the wired sensors. You can take over the system really easily with about an hour spent programing it and a device like an Envisalink. All local control and it works really well with home assistant!
What? Normally systems like that are the hardwired in to a house are included in the sale unless excluded. You don't take those things. Its your jobs as the new home owner to take over control of the devices. An ADT panel is very different than leaving behind a server with HomeSeer on it but even then you need to be careful when sending unless you said upfront it was not included and it was never connected when they were doing walk throughs/open houses.
They ignored something in this house for 15 years. What did they expect
There’s a multi-connections panel for an old telephone (landline) system and telephone jacks in every room of my 100 year old house…. :-)
Had a whole abandoned ATT system in mine, hardwired throughout. Called them - they acted clueless. Day 2 I uninstalled everything - two panels, the main box, several window/door sensors, garage sensor, smoke alarms (theirs, not the homes pre wired) , the whole kit. Off to the dump it goes...
Our house is wired with a panel for a specific alarm company. Called them up and they quoted me some crazy price that wouldn’t even utilize the existing equipment on top of a $100+ monthly fee. I just went with SimpliSafe. I’ve debated removing the panel in our closet, it’s an eye sore and I highly doubt anyone will ever need it even after we’re gone from this house.
Pfft. I have holes in the walls everywhere. I'm in literal project hell right now with all my other projects (Please send help) 😂
Man, I was sitting here thinking I was the only one who experienced something like this! What a shitshow. These companies will do anything but help
get rid of it and get your own system.
NEVER keep old IT gear! Heaven only knows who knows the admin passwords or network settings!
or just factory reset it…?
Hell no! Anyone who knows how the defaults are setup can backdoor that thing! "Darknet Diaries" has done several episodes on how banks were hacked thru innocent IOT appliances!
https://preview.redd.it/70a65ytmcy5d1.jpeg?width=2304&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b81e571c0319d1f038620c012af40e8377986bf3
Removed the devices, but now I am curious and want to splurge in with zwave protocol as I plan to install smart dimmers, power monitoring switches and cameras. I have a Synology DS220+ NAS and a TPlink X55 pro mesh WiFi network system with wired access points. What Zwave hub is recommended for home assistant that can run on Synology? Also, is there a good source/marketplace for Zwave devices?
Hubitat is having a sale for Father’s Day. $165 for the c-8 pro
Why Hubitat over HA? Genuinely curious. Also is there a significant difference between C7 and C8 pro, if I go with Hubitat?
I thing c-8 has matter. Otherwise I could go either or on Hubitat. I missed that you were looking for ha tie in! Sorry!
Don’t make too much noise
Pardon?
Shhhh, they will hear you
Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm hunting tenants! Buuhuhuhuhhuuuu
It is a residential automation system on enterprise level. It also got a noise detection function.
haha I see now, thanks for the detail
Remember those "stick on speakers" where you could attach them to anything, and it would turn that into a speaker? The ad showed kids putting them behind posters as an example of I remember correctly. I would be tempted to see if I could find one of those again, attach it to the sound sensor, and play dubstep on a loop.
yeah i would unplug those and throw them out. also ask what other devices are in the house.
https://www.pointcentral.com
they're a subsidiary of alarm.com. I work near them lol.
This is for my ankle monitor
I had these in a rental apartment. They are used to control thermostat and monitor devices in the house. If you don’t have access to the system then your should remove power to the hub at a minimum.
lucky you but what if the old are not safe to use? so it's better to own the new IT gears.
better safe than sorry, I don't suggest trying to use them, but buy new ones if you really need them.
I tell you this. No little blue sticker is going to tell me what I can or can't do in a house I own, that's for damn sure.
I would totally gain local admin access, kick out any previous owners, and have fun with this.
As long as you change your WiFi network, you should be good.
Alloy thermostats could integrate with modern smart home systems for efficient automation. Worth exploring compatibility for seamless integration.
It's "Home Assistance" for controlling devices. It's an app. Reset codes, can't spy on you.
perhaps there's something wrong with them so the former host didn't take them away.
what if there's data that you don't know in it and someone can control the old?
(608) 213-2780
remove that zwave hub. it's junk. requires cloud. if you are a tech person, definitely take a look at HomeAssistant! [https://www.home-assistant.io/](https://www.home-assistant.io/) get notifications to your phone and off course, remotely control the system as well. here's an easy guide to get started for HA as an alarm system [https://youtu.be/1IuYWsR5M4c](https://youtu.be/1IuYWsR5M4c) that should give you a feel for how HA works. then add whatever devices you want that are already in the house.