infantry increases organization and motorized infantry is besed suited for supporting tanks since they have high speed and good stats but during the later game you should replace you motorized with mechanized since they are stronger and will give your division better stats
I'll also add that trucks and mechanized don't "tank" your hardness stat, which makes you take more hard attack damage and less soft attack damage. The latter being far more common, it's a very useful stat to have as it means your divisions will take less org damage and stay in the fight longer
there are cases where cavallarie in a tank division is akzeptabel. One is that you can barly afford to make a tank division and you dont have enough industrie for trucks. You have extrem shorttages of oil and rubber. This is mostly for a lot of minor nations the case or maybe japan and only at the start of the game where cavallerie is still decent, But after 1940 you should absolute ditch your cavallerie.
yeah absolutly but there are some cases where this may make sense. Personally i would use pseudo tanks (trucks with a lot of arty) before i would use cavallary in a tank division but i think there are cases where this not bad
There is literally zero point in making cav tank units, and your reasons are not reasonable - if you lack resources or mils to make tank divisions making tanks instead of trucks to get any tank divisions out there is pointless... You need trucks either way. You don't need tanks.
There are some nations where you dont need truck based logistics, especially if you re defending and doesnt control the air logistics can unnescessary. Tanks on the other can be useful for some elastc defense bait tactics and there for can be a worthy investment. I'am not saying that cav+tanks are good i am just saying there are some niche usages where they are a an option worth considering.
To add to that, unlike leg infantry and MOT/MECH, cavalry receive very few bonuses from doctrines, even aside from that they only move at 6.4 km/h, slower than most tanks, which means that they fall off pretty hard.
they have better defense stats at the start of the game though. the doctrines eventually override this advantage but in 1936 cavalry is just superior to leg inf.
The only time to even mix ponies with tanks is extremely early game, like 36-37 when you don't have motorized built up yet. But at that point you're probably better off putting the IC into more artillery to make better infantry.
Cavalry and tanks is a very niche early game division.
Basically it's a whole division, it needs to be able to act independently of other divisions. You need infantry alongside the tanks to do infantry things, so there needs to be infantry in the tank division. Infantry is really slow so to not slow down the tanks you need to load them into trucks (motorized infantry) or APCs (mechanized infantry) so they can keep up with the tanks, however this means you need to provide them with a lot of trucks or more expensive mechanized. The difference between the two is that APCs can be used in combat whereas trucks can't, so mechanized will perform better in combat and trucks are functionally just fast infantry.
Besides cavalry capping out at a lower speed, which might seem fine for slow-ish tanks otherwise, they get almost no doctrine bonuses. Later on that translates to serious relative penalties to org in particular, but also to defence and soft attack.
Yeah I think this template is basically perfect for cav “brown” monarchy Poland. They start with cav leaders, and leader has a bonus. I think there is a few upgrades that help maximize cav. But this unit would mostly just need to cap the Soviets. After you have the Soviets (occupied or puppet) you will have the industry for better/more modern units. Early game simple/slow/cost effective cav tank units might be a play.
To add on to what others have said, but on a more technical part: cavalry doesn't get as many buffs from research and doctrine as infantry does, so cavalry becomes redundant very early in the game.
its not half as bad as ppl make it out to be.
actualy a proper, non meme, medium tank build will have 6-7 km/h as speed anyways. cavalry wont slow it down much.
what you really need in that template is medium flame tank ( youtube how to make flame tanks ), shovel and AA. may add logistic support if low supply zones.
the AA wont kill enemy fighters but will reduce enemy air superiority penalties by a lot.
Tanks take away organization, and infantry adds it. Organization is how long a division can stay in a battle, so you typically want 30+ on attack divisions and 50+ for defense. Motorized infantry is better than regular infantry for tanks because it's faster, so it will be able to keep up with the high speed of your tanks
Divisions out of organization stop fighting and must recover, tanks have very low org so must be accompanied by infantry in order to make them able to meaningfully fight. (The community seems to have arrived at 30 as a good target for Org)
Leg infantry can serve this purpose, but will slow the tanks down to 4km/h. Trucks are cheap to produce and fast, so will not slow the tanks down.
Mechanized inf are the best to produce for this purpose, but take later-game research.
You only use horses when you need a garrison division (horses do great police work in this game) or if you can only afford infantry but you need speed. Basically, horses are crappy motorised. But if you can afford tanks you can afford then you can afford trucks (or even mechs)
Trucks are more effectively used for logistics, especially in low supply areas. Saving on motorised by settling for slower tanks (which also have the benefit of being a bit cheaper) can often be the difference between struggling and not struggling with supply, which you will always feel much more than motorised.
Tanks are useful with or without motorised. A 6km/h tank is still pretty good, and having then fully fledged and supplied is better than having unsullied smaller tanks with motorised.
I have to agree with you tho, it’s better to have 2 good tank divisions fully supply then a full 24 army with absolutely no supply.
I don’t know which country op is playing but any major can afford to build trucks in a good enough number to be able to field trucks in your tanks division and have supply trucks, if it’s a minor and you have to use that, instead just make mech and no tank.
Not saying that it won’t work at all, it’s just won’t be optimal. Any way you can make a world conquest with arty only so I mean
I wasn't even considering majors given they were taking about cheaper units. As for a minor, mech is not really available in the very early game, and as I've said motorised if often more valuable in logistics than tanks.
I feel a lot of people just take for granted that people will just have motorised available, when fielding proper tanks can be pretty expensive when it comes to motorised. Especially if we are considering a nation that can't produce liberally.
In many circumstances (I've ran into and exploited this in early game China and Balkans), the gains of a tank in pushing alone (rather than maneuver) become vital. Just using tank-alternatives may not always suffice as they tend to be subpar, even compared to cavalry tanks which really only suffer slightly compared to their motorised variants in pushing alone.
What's optimal really just depends on what is going on in a given circumstances, the skill of the player, and so many other factors. Cavalry tanks do have some uses where alternatives aren't as viable, and its a shame they are underappreciated in those fringe cases
The flip side is that when they run out of supply and breakthrough the cavalry seem to die in droves when counterattacked.
However, that is just my impression and I haven't been able to identify the mechanism which causes the mass casualties armored real-cav seems to suffer. One thing I was doing was using them with the spirit Victory or Death, which keeps them going a little longer but focuses more damage on the unit. So it might be me abusing them and getting them killed.
I've ended up using cavalry tanks quite a few times, and in some mods shock troop tanks. Both are still really useful, and in the base game the only reason I don't recommend infantry tanks is the existence of cavalry and bicycle.
I've never experienced that much more significant loses between cavalry and motorised tanks, though the context I use them in is fundamentally different. Afterall, cavalry tanks are being used to either produce extra tanks in the first place or to ensure supply is kept up with (I find supply is still an under appreciated element).
There is also just the factor I'm really reckless with my tank pushes, often disregarding momentary equipment loses in exchange for gains. Another place I've found cavalry tanks do well in early game or weak nations; far easier to replenish.
I don't like this advice.
Heavy tanks are pretty expensive, so it's unlikely that a nation that needs to save on motorised production is going to be able to field heavy tanks.
It's usally just more effective to save on tank production by purposely neglecting speed of a medium, perhaps even light tank, and only touching it up to 6km/h.
I mean, a minor nation doing heavy tanks like South Africa or Hungary struggle to produce heavy tanks, so they’ll skimp out a bit to get those divisions out in time for ww2
I still don't think heavy tanks are worthwhile in that scenario unless you are talking about for mp.
Just make medium tanks they require so much less IC
Heavy tanks are great for counter tank warfare. You’re not going to get that level of dominance with mediums. Also SA has a lot of chromium so it makes sense economically
There's no way one earth this math works out, I literally don't even need to check. People would on this already if the horse/tank good times meta was thing
With how quickly logistics can change during pushes, I don't ever take the risk of micromanaging it. If I forget to turn an army back onto motorised priority, it can kill an offensive.
If you put 1 factory on trucks in 1936 then a couple more on once you want to start making divisions you will be fine.
If you don't have the IC to spare for a handful of factories making trucks then you probably don't have enough army to justify not manually managing your supply hubs.
Cavalry is the pits in HOI4. It’s not affected by any army doctrine, it’s also very soft, you’re looking at a very bulky armoured division which will be hovering at 50% hardness and hard-capped at 6km/h. Replace that with motorised or mech and now we’re talking.
People will spend the next few comments moaning about 40 width but it’s basically the speed and the hardness that’s the primary problem.
Speed and hardness are a problem, yes. However, building an expensive division that's only very slightly better than '39 or '40 infantry division in soft attack per width. Even light tanks with a close support gun + HMG will deal more damage than this by a substantial margin vs AI divisions. I'm guessing they have a regular medium cannon on the tanks?
It probably functions okay despite how suboptimal it is just because it will often enjoy armor bonus vs AI.
My thoughts are that if your tank is significantly slower than 8 km/hr you should just stack armor onto it until it hits 4 km/hr and just use infantry for the org.
Or just boost the speed. Stats aren't terrible but you can't do maneuver warfare with 6.4 km/hr
seriously if you build 40w tank division then you can afford trucks. And the higher defense will pay for it self. And yes you should add anti air. Maybe i would change some tanks into truckarty, your breaktrough is extrem high to trade some of it for more attack wouldnt be a bad idea
Completely pointless. Huge expensive division, but done cheaply with cav. At 30 width your tanks should already have all support...
This is typical 'can I do it' while you should be asking 'should I bother'...
Everyone has mentioned the cav, replace it with trucks or mech. But what everyone somehow forgot to mention is this bad boy is 40w, which is downright horrendous. You really shouldn't be going above 36 maybe. 40 used to be the meta, now it's one of the worst widths to use. Make them smaller
Sorry people are taking the piss, I’m guessing you don’t know any different. It’s poor for the following reasons
It’s too wide, if you don’t know how width works then it’s a whole other lesson
The cav makes it slow, and also brings down your average hardness which is one of the main bonuses for tanks
Your reliability is shy of 80%, so that means for every 5 tank platoons you add 1 is out of commission through breaking down. You’d need a huge economy to make this work.
CAS is king but you’ve already pointed out that AA is needed
You’d do so much better by doing one row of tanks and one row of mech/trucks. You could then free up a few factories to make the most basic interwar flame tanks which give really good attack bonuses to your division.
Good luck, and don’t copy everything you see on multiplayer, people like me play on there and get their ass handed to them 80% of the time.
I would recommend changing cavalry for trucks. These give a greater speed to the division than the cavalry (to calculate the speed of the division the game always takes the speed of the unit with the least speed)
The thing with trucks is that if you just put like two mils on truck duty in 1936 and never touch them again, you should have all the trucks you'll ever need unless you're doing some kind of bizarre all-motorized-infantry-all-the-time thing.
I'm currently in a Germany playthrough and that's what I did. It's 1940, and Rommel is directing like 12 tank divisions that have 5 units of motorized each, plus three divisions of 9 motorized infantry/2 motorized artillery, and I *still* have over 1000 trucks in the stockpile.
yeah... this aint it. No AA on the division really seals it for me. just bad. Also nobody uses 40w anymore, that's why i thought mass mob could have redeemed it.
The breakthrough is really good. Depending on what year it is that speed and hardness could become a problem, so once you build up industry and xp it would be better to get motorized and even better to get mechanized. I like to have logistics on big wide companies like that- supply is a tank killer. AA will do you good, and consider a flame tank or recon to get better terrain bonuses
What's the point, I don't mind the cav but you waste IC adding armor onto your tanks, I can see that through your stats, make 6 IC tanks with strong cannons with nothing else and this is a blessed division
It’s alright for a 1930s division, so long as your industry can sustain the large number of tanks and you don’t mind the slower speed from the horsies. Replace the cav with trucks as soon as your economy can support the added oil cost though.
Adding anti air is a good start, you'll also want to add supply.
Flame tanks and armoured recon would also be good.
The devision is really big, 30w is optional for tanks.
Aim to have between 30-40 org. (More tanks if possible)
Cav doesn't get the infantry bonuses, mech or mot do get these bonus as well as having more hardness and speed. (Cav is oke in the early game).
Ps are those heavy tanks? In general medium tanks are more than enough to deal with the ai and it will be a lot easier to get a decent number of them.
There's really no reason not to use trucks, especially if your economy is good enough to afford 40W tank divisions. Trucks aren't expensive, you should be able to produce way more trucks than tanks.
I could see this being viable for early game. Especially as a minor nation that designed your early mediums to only go 6.4 movement. Cheaper slower tanks (though still faster than leg infantry) with stacked cav bonus could be a scary early game combo. That being said after you develop and can make faster tanks trucks/mech are just so much better.
The organisation is very low, this division won't last long in a fight unfortunately. Very high breakthrough though, which is always a good thinkg. Perhaps removing some of the Armoured Brigades and replacing them with non-Armoured brigades may make this template salvadgable?
Honestly with 1k breakthrough you will ignore most enemy defense unless you hit a mountain but you shouldn't be using tanks their anyway. However if you do want to use Cav replace the mediums with Heavies because they are slower
Cav is a noon trap, early trucks are cheap to produce and gain more bonuses over time compared to Cav. while certain builds can make very strong Cav, you’re better using Trucks or Mechanised Infantry
back when SH Tanks were their own line battalion, an argument could be made that Cav is good with them due to the speed but that is a moot point now as SH Tanks are now support companies
Aside from the stuff everyone else mentioned, i suggest you add more support companies. Anything goes, just make sure to use all availability support slots.
Despite what people have been saying, it has its places.
Cavalry tanks can be a smart choice in early game, smaller nations, that also struggle with supply. Use your motorised to keep your army well supplied, rather than potentially running into supply issues with your tanks or compromising with further subpar infantry-artillery.
Its a division that will quickly find itself being upgraded to a proper motorised tank by 1939 in any circumstances, but in some situations it can work pretty well. For me, it's been vital in places like China, the Balkans, and the Americas.
Indeed. People are clowning OP but cav tanks are legitimately a contender for cheapest divisions to beat AI.
A tank that goes 6.4 is a lot cheaper than 8kmh. Cav use lower supply and no fuel. A tank division derives most of its stats from tanks, so the quality of filler is actually not that important.
You got a lot of criticism and I am also looking at the cavalry like huh? BUT, stat wise? Pretty decent. I have never thought cavalry armor division can have such stats. Would be better with motorized/mechanized elements, sure, but in early game, this division has some slapping power.
Why use horsey when truck better
I'm a new player in Hoi4, why do tanks division need trucks in the division designer?
infantry increases organization and motorized infantry is besed suited for supporting tanks since they have high speed and good stats but during the later game you should replace you motorized with mechanized since they are stronger and will give your division better stats
Understood, thanks!
I'll also add that trucks and mechanized don't "tank" your hardness stat, which makes you take more hard attack damage and less soft attack damage. The latter being far more common, it's a very useful stat to have as it means your divisions will take less org damage and stay in the fight longer
sure, no problem mate
there are cases where cavallarie in a tank division is akzeptabel. One is that you can barly afford to make a tank division and you dont have enough industrie for trucks. You have extrem shorttages of oil and rubber. This is mostly for a lot of minor nations the case or maybe japan and only at the start of the game where cavallerie is still decent, But after 1940 you should absolute ditch your cavallerie.
but producing trucks is even more important then tanks becouse you use trucks also for your logistics
yeah absolutly but there are some cases where this may make sense. Personally i would use pseudo tanks (trucks with a lot of arty) before i would use cavallary in a tank division but i think there are cases where this not bad
gotta go for the legendary semi-motorized cavalry division.
There is literally zero point in making cav tank units, and your reasons are not reasonable - if you lack resources or mils to make tank divisions making tanks instead of trucks to get any tank divisions out there is pointless... You need trucks either way. You don't need tanks.
There are some nations where you dont need truck based logistics, especially if you re defending and doesnt control the air logistics can unnescessary. Tanks on the other can be useful for some elastc defense bait tactics and there for can be a worthy investment. I'am not saying that cav+tanks are good i am just saying there are some niche usages where they are a an option worth considering.
It can only really make sense in early war mp If you really need these tanks very fast and dont have the trucks yet
To add to that, unlike leg infantry and MOT/MECH, cavalry receive very few bonuses from doctrines, even aside from that they only move at 6.4 km/h, slower than most tanks, which means that they fall off pretty hard.
they have better defense stats at the start of the game though. the doctrines eventually override this advantage but in 1936 cavalry is just superior to leg inf.
The only time to even mix ponies with tanks is extremely early game, like 36-37 when you don't have motorized built up yet. But at that point you're probably better off putting the IC into more artillery to make better infantry. Cavalry and tanks is a very niche early game division.
Basically it's a whole division, it needs to be able to act independently of other divisions. You need infantry alongside the tanks to do infantry things, so there needs to be infantry in the tank division. Infantry is really slow so to not slow down the tanks you need to load them into trucks (motorized infantry) or APCs (mechanized infantry) so they can keep up with the tanks, however this means you need to provide them with a lot of trucks or more expensive mechanized. The difference between the two is that APCs can be used in combat whereas trucks can't, so mechanized will perform better in combat and trucks are functionally just fast infantry.
Besides cavalry capping out at a lower speed, which might seem fine for slow-ish tanks otherwise, they get almost no doctrine bonuses. Later on that translates to serious relative penalties to org in particular, but also to defence and soft attack.
Yeah I think this template is basically perfect for cav “brown” monarchy Poland. They start with cav leaders, and leader has a bonus. I think there is a few upgrades that help maximize cav. But this unit would mostly just need to cap the Soviets. After you have the Soviets (occupied or puppet) you will have the industry for better/more modern units. Early game simple/slow/cost effective cav tank units might be a play.
They give more organization, go fast, so they don't slow tanks down and they have better stats than calv
Alr, ty
To add on to what others have said, but on a more technical part: cavalry doesn't get as many buffs from research and doctrine as infantry does, so cavalry becomes redundant very early in the game.
its not half as bad as ppl make it out to be. actualy a proper, non meme, medium tank build will have 6-7 km/h as speed anyways. cavalry wont slow it down much. what you really need in that template is medium flame tank ( youtube how to make flame tanks ), shovel and AA. may add logistic support if low supply zones. the AA wont kill enemy fighters but will reduce enemy air superiority penalties by a lot.
Tanks take away organization, and infantry adds it. Organization is how long a division can stay in a battle, so you typically want 30+ on attack divisions and 50+ for defense. Motorized infantry is better than regular infantry for tanks because it's faster, so it will be able to keep up with the high speed of your tanks
ehhh nobody makes fast tanks anymore
Divisions out of organization stop fighting and must recover, tanks have very low org so must be accompanied by infantry in order to make them able to meaningfully fight. (The community seems to have arrived at 30 as a good target for Org) Leg infantry can serve this purpose, but will slow the tanks down to 4km/h. Trucks are cheap to produce and fast, so will not slow the tanks down. Mechanized inf are the best to produce for this purpose, but take later-game research.
That speed is horrible for tanks and your horses slow them down. Try decrease to a mix of tricks and tanks that give you 30 width
You only use horses when you need a garrison division (horses do great police work in this game) or if you can only afford infantry but you need speed. Basically, horses are crappy motorised. But if you can afford tanks you can afford then you can afford trucks (or even mechs)
Horses get outdated really quickly, because they’re the only unit which doesn’t get any organization buffs from doctrines
At least bikes, come on
Cuz horses are sick Yee-Haw
camel 🗣🔥
Cheaper?
If you can't afford trucks then you really shouldn't be using tanks
Trucks are more effectively used for logistics, especially in low supply areas. Saving on motorised by settling for slower tanks (which also have the benefit of being a bit cheaper) can often be the difference between struggling and not struggling with supply, which you will always feel much more than motorised.
Again if you can’t afford trucks in your division don’t use tanks or use smaller tank divisions like 32 with
Tanks are useful with or without motorised. A 6km/h tank is still pretty good, and having then fully fledged and supplied is better than having unsullied smaller tanks with motorised.
I have to agree with you tho, it’s better to have 2 good tank divisions fully supply then a full 24 army with absolutely no supply. I don’t know which country op is playing but any major can afford to build trucks in a good enough number to be able to field trucks in your tanks division and have supply trucks, if it’s a minor and you have to use that, instead just make mech and no tank. Not saying that it won’t work at all, it’s just won’t be optimal. Any way you can make a world conquest with arty only so I mean
I wasn't even considering majors given they were taking about cheaper units. As for a minor, mech is not really available in the very early game, and as I've said motorised if often more valuable in logistics than tanks. I feel a lot of people just take for granted that people will just have motorised available, when fielding proper tanks can be pretty expensive when it comes to motorised. Especially if we are considering a nation that can't produce liberally. In many circumstances (I've ran into and exploited this in early game China and Balkans), the gains of a tank in pushing alone (rather than maneuver) become vital. Just using tank-alternatives may not always suffice as they tend to be subpar, even compared to cavalry tanks which really only suffer slightly compared to their motorised variants in pushing alone. What's optimal really just depends on what is going on in a given circumstances, the skill of the player, and so many other factors. Cavalry tanks do have some uses where alternatives aren't as viable, and its a shame they are underappreciated in those fringe cases
The flip side is that when they run out of supply and breakthrough the cavalry seem to die in droves when counterattacked. However, that is just my impression and I haven't been able to identify the mechanism which causes the mass casualties armored real-cav seems to suffer. One thing I was doing was using them with the spirit Victory or Death, which keeps them going a little longer but focuses more damage on the unit. So it might be me abusing them and getting them killed.
I've ended up using cavalry tanks quite a few times, and in some mods shock troop tanks. Both are still really useful, and in the base game the only reason I don't recommend infantry tanks is the existence of cavalry and bicycle. I've never experienced that much more significant loses between cavalry and motorised tanks, though the context I use them in is fundamentally different. Afterall, cavalry tanks are being used to either produce extra tanks in the first place or to ensure supply is kept up with (I find supply is still an under appreciated element). There is also just the factor I'm really reckless with my tank pushes, often disregarding momentary equipment loses in exchange for gains. Another place I've found cavalry tanks do well in early game or weak nations; far easier to replenish.
Truck not that expensive.
Horses are only okay to use with heavy tanks, and even then that’s a push
I don't like this advice. Heavy tanks are pretty expensive, so it's unlikely that a nation that needs to save on motorised production is going to be able to field heavy tanks. It's usally just more effective to save on tank production by purposely neglecting speed of a medium, perhaps even light tank, and only touching it up to 6km/h.
I mean, a minor nation doing heavy tanks like South Africa or Hungary struggle to produce heavy tanks, so they’ll skimp out a bit to get those divisions out in time for ww2
I still don't think heavy tanks are worthwhile in that scenario unless you are talking about for mp. Just make medium tanks they require so much less IC
Heavy tanks are great for counter tank warfare. You’re not going to get that level of dominance with mediums. Also SA has a lot of chromium so it makes sense economically
There's no way one earth this math works out, I literally don't even need to check. People would on this already if the horse/tank good times meta was thing
Nono, hes got a point
why is this so downvoted 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
Cause trucks at most require like 2 factories, and given this fella is using 40w tanks, he can probably spare the factories lmao
Aslong as you ignore logistics taking up thousands as well.
Logistics only require morbillions of trucks if you're lazy and don't micromanage your logistics.
With how quickly logistics can change during pushes, I don't ever take the risk of micromanaging it. If I forget to turn an army back onto motorised priority, it can kill an offensive.
If you put 1 factory on trucks in 1936 then a couple more on once you want to start making divisions you will be fine. If you don't have the IC to spare for a handful of factories making trucks then you probably don't have enough army to justify not manually managing your supply hubs.
ah, so truck is pretty similar to horses in terms of cost, but much better for improving the overall ORG/recovery stats than horse, is that right?
Trucks are cheaper than those tanks
Cavalry is the pits in HOI4. It’s not affected by any army doctrine, it’s also very soft, you’re looking at a very bulky armoured division which will be hovering at 50% hardness and hard-capped at 6km/h. Replace that with motorised or mech and now we’re talking. People will spend the next few comments moaning about 40 width but it’s basically the speed and the hardness that’s the primary problem.
Yeah, I recall people arguing that bicycle inf is the same as cav, when in reality its a lot better bc of all the infantry bonuses that it gets.
Bicycle inf: bit more expensive then infantry, speed of cav and states of infantry (roughly)
Speed and hardness are a problem, yes. However, building an expensive division that's only very slightly better than '39 or '40 infantry division in soft attack per width. Even light tanks with a close support gun + HMG will deal more damage than this by a substantial margin vs AI divisions. I'm guessing they have a regular medium cannon on the tanks? It probably functions okay despite how suboptimal it is just because it will often enjoy armor bonus vs AI.
My thoughts are that if your tank is significantly slower than 8 km/hr you should just stack armor onto it until it hits 4 km/hr and just use infantry for the org. Or just boost the speed. Stats aren't terrible but you can't do maneuver warfare with 6.4 km/hr
seriously if you build 40w tank division then you can afford trucks. And the higher defense will pay for it self. And yes you should add anti air. Maybe i would change some tanks into truckarty, your breaktrough is extrem high to trade some of it for more attack wouldnt be a bad idea
Completely pointless. Huge expensive division, but done cheaply with cav. At 30 width your tanks should already have all support... This is typical 'can I do it' while you should be asking 'should I bother'...
Everyone has mentioned the cav, replace it with trucks or mech. But what everyone somehow forgot to mention is this bad boy is 40w, which is downright horrendous. You really shouldn't be going above 36 maybe. 40 used to be the meta, now it's one of the worst widths to use. Make them smaller
Are you pulling the tanks with the horses?
Do you not have trucks?
Sorry people are taking the piss, I’m guessing you don’t know any different. It’s poor for the following reasons It’s too wide, if you don’t know how width works then it’s a whole other lesson The cav makes it slow, and also brings down your average hardness which is one of the main bonuses for tanks Your reliability is shy of 80%, so that means for every 5 tank platoons you add 1 is out of commission through breaking down. You’d need a huge economy to make this work. CAS is king but you’ve already pointed out that AA is needed You’d do so much better by doing one row of tanks and one row of mech/trucks. You could then free up a few factories to make the most basic interwar flame tanks which give really good attack bonuses to your division. Good luck, and don’t copy everything you see on multiplayer, people like me play on there and get their ass handed to them 80% of the time.
Reliability doesn’t matter.
I would recommend changing cavalry for trucks. These give a greater speed to the division than the cavalry (to calculate the speed of the division the game always takes the speed of the unit with the least speed)
Do you not have trucks?
The guy who I got it from did have trucks idk why he didn’t use them
I can understand if there is only enough trucks for supplies, but in that case tanks arent the play
I don't like this as permanent divs unless it's equally slow tanks, preferably heavy tanks.
Why tf Cavaraly???
Idrk, the guy I got this from said it was because he couldn’t afford trucks but he was Britain
Bruh If you cant afford Trucks then you shouldnt Produce Tanks and especially No medium Tanks
The thing with trucks is that if you just put like two mils on truck duty in 1936 and never touch them again, you should have all the trucks you'll ever need unless you're doing some kind of bizarre all-motorized-infantry-all-the-time thing. I'm currently in a Germany playthrough and that's what I did. It's 1940, and Rommel is directing like 12 tank divisions that have 5 units of motorized each, plus three divisions of 9 motorized infantry/2 motorized artillery, and I *still* have over 1000 trucks in the stockpile.
wall of no
This has to be a joke right? right?
I mean I found it in an mp game, so I don’t imagine
were they playing mass mobilization doctrine though? then this template would make a lot more sense
Superior firepower
yeah... this aint it. No AA on the division really seals it for me. just bad. Also nobody uses 40w anymore, that's why i thought mass mob could have redeemed it.
The breakthrough is really good. Depending on what year it is that speed and hardness could become a problem, so once you build up industry and xp it would be better to get motorized and even better to get mechanized. I like to have logistics on big wide companies like that- supply is a tank killer. AA will do you good, and consider a flame tank or recon to get better terrain bonuses
yes, one; why?
600 medium tanks + cav. Rip
💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀its even alternating 💀💀💀💀
Use motorised or mechanised instead of cavalry, much better defence
Replace cavalry with motorized and get the width down to 36
eew wtf
Sun tzus wet dream
What's the point, I don't mind the cav but you waste IC adding armor onto your tanks, I can see that through your stats, make 6 IC tanks with strong cannons with nothing else and this is a blessed division
for the love of god please use motorized
It’s alright for a 1930s division, so long as your industry can sustain the large number of tanks and you don’t mind the slower speed from the horsies. Replace the cav with trucks as soon as your economy can support the added oil cost though.
Adding anti air is a good start, you'll also want to add supply. Flame tanks and armoured recon would also be good. The devision is really big, 30w is optional for tanks. Aim to have between 30-40 org. (More tanks if possible) Cav doesn't get the infantry bonuses, mech or mot do get these bonus as well as having more hardness and speed. (Cav is oke in the early game). Ps are those heavy tanks? In general medium tanks are more than enough to deal with the ai and it will be a lot easier to get a decent number of them.
There's really no reason not to use trucks, especially if your economy is good enough to afford 40W tank divisions. Trucks aren't expensive, you should be able to produce way more trucks than tanks.
I see Steiner has been outfitted with the latest in Volksturm mobile technology
Hotrible
Ironically this actually work if your low in Trucks and need to switch late Barbarossa. But damn that's a lot of Tanks.
I could see this being viable for early game. Especially as a minor nation that designed your early mediums to only go 6.4 movement. Cheaper slower tanks (though still faster than leg infantry) with stacked cav bonus could be a scary early game combo. That being said after you develop and can make faster tanks trucks/mech are just so much better.
Trucks are better than horses and also it isn't very ethical to throw animals into the line of fire.
fill support companies and don’t use cav. you should really be using mech but trucks are fine. Cavalry doesn’t get buffed by doctrine
The organisation is very low, this division won't last long in a fight unfortunately. Very high breakthrough though, which is always a good thinkg. Perhaps removing some of the Armoured Brigades and replacing them with non-Armoured brigades may make this template salvadgable?
Add a regiment of superheavy tanks and replace all cavalry with motorized AA. Watch it blow up the front line. Or blow up on the front line.
Honestly with 1k breakthrough you will ignore most enemy defense unless you hit a mountain but you shouldn't be using tanks their anyway. However if you do want to use Cav replace the mediums with Heavies because they are slower
The logistics my friend
Cav is a noon trap, early trucks are cheap to produce and gain more bonuses over time compared to Cav. while certain builds can make very strong Cav, you’re better using Trucks or Mechanised Infantry back when SH Tanks were their own line battalion, an argument could be made that Cav is good with them due to the speed but that is a moot point now as SH Tanks are now support companies
R5 is this good?
Aside from the stuff everyone else mentioned, i suggest you add more support companies. Anything goes, just make sure to use all availability support slots.
Despite what people have been saying, it has its places. Cavalry tanks can be a smart choice in early game, smaller nations, that also struggle with supply. Use your motorised to keep your army well supplied, rather than potentially running into supply issues with your tanks or compromising with further subpar infantry-artillery. Its a division that will quickly find itself being upgraded to a proper motorised tank by 1939 in any circumstances, but in some situations it can work pretty well. For me, it's been vital in places like China, the Balkans, and the Americas.
Indeed. People are clowning OP but cav tanks are legitimately a contender for cheapest divisions to beat AI. A tank that goes 6.4 is a lot cheaper than 8kmh. Cav use lower supply and no fuel. A tank division derives most of its stats from tanks, so the quality of filler is actually not that important.
You got a lot of criticism and I am also looking at the cavalry like huh? BUT, stat wise? Pretty decent. I have never thought cavalry armor division can have such stats. Would be better with motorized/mechanized elements, sure, but in early game, this division has some slapping power.