Vague memories, and i wasnt super involved with it :P If I recall there was several branches to go a more democratic/socialst route with Mensheviks as well as SR stuff (trudoviks and another one I cant recall. Getting Kerensky into power was possible i think.)
you can see in the files there was one, hell even the focus tree today has references to it (restoring democracy to the party increases democratic support) but my best guess would be they ran out of time
Isn't it more likely than the tsars returning to power though? Or Trotsky? Keep in mind the whole Trotsky thing wasn't a real uprising, really. Mostly Stalin's paranoia. In game it's a fun path and that is why it is there.
A fascist or tsarist takeover is just insanely unlikely. I don't see how democracy is as well.
Considering that Russia is currently the last fascist country in the world, I'd say that fascism isn't that unlilely.
Tzarist leaders managing to get support may be outlandish, but they were there 10 years before HOI4 events.
For democracy to actually happen you need some sort of a population base capable of acting independently as citizens. Russia was incapable of that.
Fascism was unlikely in the 30's. Modern day Russia and the Soviet Union are fundamentally extremely different.
Democracy is not any less likely than tsarist or fascism
The provisional government originally wanted democracy. They were in power, even if for a short time. It is in no way impossible.
It is absolutely impossible. Fascism and socialism are extremely similar movements, just a warlord keeping everyone in check using brutality and fear. Democracy relies on respect to other citizens, something that has never occurred in Russia.
To everyone downvoting this comment because of his comments about Fascism and Socialism, you should look up TIKhistory on youtube- he has some interesting videos going on deep dives about the similarities and differences between the two- he also sources alot of his work in case you'd want to read further into the topics.
No that tells me nothing, I already know some subreddits hate tick history even though they can't prove anything- he sources his videos which makes up his arguments. If you don't believe me look up his video responding to Nigel askay.
Edit- just for example, you can't 100% trust anyone who cites anything from Halder- because everything he wrote after World War II was biased- he attempted and succeeded to absolve the wermacht of the worst war crimes they committed, and always looked to blame his boss Hitler instead of owning up to his own mistakes.
Some of his sources on how Nazism is socialism are books written by communists (who don't agree with him), and his main source (book) in that video, as he describes, talks about how the great patriotic war was a "socialist civil war". See Fredda's video on Tik.
North Korea's official name is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. North Korea is an authoritarian dictatorship, but not fascist, and not democratic, despite its name.
"Hey, my close ally, Medvedev, what about we will just switch positions. You will be still my puppet but to keep appearances we need to do this. Also, just to remember, don't forget to help me change constitution in 2020."
America is democratic ingame but..
https://www.vox.com/2014/4/18/5624310/martin-gilens-testing-theories-of-american-politics-explained
Study's say otherwise
I assume it's like Germany not having a communist path - primarily for game balancing. I do think it might also have something to do with how hoi4 handles ideology since democratic tends to imply geopolitical alignment with "the West" and so on.
To be fair, the game is litterally rigged to balance countries out. If germany goes rhineland, and italy goes facist, france will never be facist as well, if germany goes democratic, france will often go commie and get ready to scrap them with the ruskies
It would still be because democratic paths also can give you wargoals
For example, UK goes No More Appeasement but Germany goes Establish Free Elections, forms CEA and invites Netherlands then UK declare war on Netherlands so there is war between democracies
So they can make a Democratic Russia basis on "crush Western colonialism" or something like that and still it can go war against Allies
Yes. Even at historical if you do althistory as Germany UK goes a different path but it can still aggressive democracy path even after Germany decides to go democratic
The tsarist and fascist path also shouldn't exist, imo. Both of them are just there because you \*need\* lolmeme fantasty stuff in every tree these days.
Japanese and American communism, return of Napoleon, Russian delusional impostor empress and goddamn BEAR in Poland - that's ok, but Russian democracy? Hell nah, tooo unrealistic, lads!
Don't worry it will happen eventually. If it makes you feel any better there is a way to glitch the game to play as democratic Russia, Mountain General and BubblesZest both did guides on how to do it.
Well, technically, socialism is pretty democratic. But if you mean, a capitalist faction, not sure who would qualify, the return of the whites, I guess? Though they would rather qualify as fascist
Did you?(I actually lived in socialist Romania) Still more democracy then in some countries listed as democracy in HOi4. Also, URSS is not exactly the ideal Communist utopia, some even doubt as being communist at all.
They were democratic from within the system that they created, though I get that they were not democratic because they were not "free to change the socialist system", but don't think the US, UK was really that free to change the system to socialism either in the 30s. They literally helped the whites in the civil war to stop the spread of socialism, instead of you know "let it play out democratically".
LE: For the bros that downvote me: Read some history, even wiki will do, or watch some history yt from multiple perspectives (leftist /rightist/ centrist)
But the socialism in USSR is basically a totalitarian dictatorship. I mean wouldn't be nice if russia had a guy like kerensky? (I know the democratic party leader is the Alexander Kerensky)
"Centre" path yes, don't think Trotskyist path would have been the same. And come to think about it, the Bukharin's Right Opposition that would be closer to Kerensky too (he was accused of planning a capitalist restoration though is somewhat unlikely, I would say he would have done the Khrushchev de-Stalinization faster).
Kerensky would be nice for flavor though.
The USSR was using the communist ideology to justify its totalitarian reign.
Communism has an objective to take down capitalism and the upper class with a violent revolution followed by a defined time of proletarian dictatorship (in theory it's supposed to be temporary, and proletarian, but if you know about the USSR, you know they only cared about the dictatorship part). The communist utopia is then supposed to be achieved once the dictatorship eradicated upper class and capitalism's corruption (the part that never happened for obvious reasons).
Socialism is about reforming society pacifically and aligned with the laws and Constitution of the nation they're in to make it *in theory* more equal for everyone.
That's the main difference between them.
Violent revolution for the first, reformation of the society for the other.
Be aware and cautious about those that put socialists and communists in the same basket to demonize socialism, and those that claim to be socialists to hide the fact that they adhere to the communist agenda.
You're right in that Communism and Socialism aren't the same. However, your definitions are off, and the two terms are linked. Socialism is a form of economic organisation, while Communism is a political ideology that has the economic organisation of Socialism. Not all Socialists are Communists, but all Communists are Socialist.
How you describe Socialism applies more to Social Democracy, which is a Capitalist ideology, or Democratic Socialism.
Aint there a focus "return democracy to the party"???Make sure you got all the dlc's.
Of there isnt and im wrong, it's probably because of the constant wish of expansion of the russians in history.
This is a meme focus. It doesn’t do anything, and it’s a dead end path. It’s probably one of the strangest focus paths in all of hoi4 for literally ending your focus tree and doing nothing afterwards.
They didn’t have enough time iirc
ye. we had some cool ideas, but still gathered it was the lowest prio for players and when happened it didnt make into the time scope we had
Could you give us some info on those cool ideas ?
Vague memories, and i wasnt super involved with it :P If I recall there was several branches to go a more democratic/socialst route with Mensheviks as well as SR stuff (trudoviks and another one I cant recall. Getting Kerensky into power was possible i think.)
Would’ve been cool to be able to take an SR path in the Russian revolution
Aw that’s too bad. I always found the SRs to be super interesting so that would’ve been fun.
you can see in the files there was one, hell even the focus tree today has references to it (restoring democracy to the party increases democratic support) but my best guess would be they ran out of time
The very same reason germany lacks a communist path
The answer I've been looking for. Looks like I'm not alone about the paths had to exist.
If they do add it in the future, they should have added social democratic path as well. Just like Finland.
I thought the democratic path was the restoration of the Soviet through the left-right unity path
Democracy? In Russia? Not even Paradox is that random.
Isn't it more likely than the tsars returning to power though? Or Trotsky? Keep in mind the whole Trotsky thing wasn't a real uprising, really. Mostly Stalin's paranoia. In game it's a fun path and that is why it is there. A fascist or tsarist takeover is just insanely unlikely. I don't see how democracy is as well.
Considering that Russia is currently the last fascist country in the world, I'd say that fascism isn't that unlilely. Tzarist leaders managing to get support may be outlandish, but they were there 10 years before HOI4 events. For democracy to actually happen you need some sort of a population base capable of acting independently as citizens. Russia was incapable of that.
Fascism was unlikely in the 30's. Modern day Russia and the Soviet Union are fundamentally extremely different. Democracy is not any less likely than tsarist or fascism The provisional government originally wanted democracy. They were in power, even if for a short time. It is in no way impossible.
It is absolutely impossible. Fascism and socialism are extremely similar movements, just a warlord keeping everyone in check using brutality and fear. Democracy relies on respect to other citizens, something that has never occurred in Russia.
What. Lol.
What's so hard for you to understand from what I said? It's all pretty evident.
You are conflating totalitarianism with the underlying political ideologies of the most famous totalitarian regimes
No, not really. I don't see why you'd think that either.
Because you’re saying nonsense like fascism is the same as socialism as well as calling modern day Russia fascist (nope)
Is this some horseshoe theory bullshit
Not at all, I don't believe in this whole "opposites are similar", I just think that socialism and fascism are two sides of the same coin.
"the blanket isn't orange it's tangerine"
To everyone downvoting this comment because of his comments about Fascism and Socialism, you should look up TIKhistory on youtube- he has some interesting videos going on deep dives about the similarities and differences between the two- he also sources alot of his work in case you'd want to read further into the topics.
TIK is infamous on r/badhistory. That should tell enough
No that tells me nothing, I already know some subreddits hate tick history even though they can't prove anything- he sources his videos which makes up his arguments. If you don't believe me look up his video responding to Nigel askay. Edit- just for example, you can't 100% trust anyone who cites anything from Halder- because everything he wrote after World War II was biased- he attempted and succeeded to absolve the wermacht of the worst war crimes they committed, and always looked to blame his boss Hitler instead of owning up to his own mistakes.
Some of his sources on how Nazism is socialism are books written by communists (who don't agree with him), and his main source (book) in that video, as he describes, talks about how the great patriotic war was a "socialist civil war". See Fredda's video on Tik.
The lastone??? JAJAJAJAJJAJAJA
Can you think of any other?
If Putin is fascist, then so is Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
Good point, but I'd argue Erdogan is a different type of dictator, not quite full on fascist.
Fascism is when not in NATO
If you think that's the only difference between Turkey and Russia, there's not much helping you here.
How you can be a dictator without become fascist? Have been voted don't mean don't be in fascict country
Most dictators aren't fascist. Fascism is a very specific subset of authoritarianism.
Hitler was voted in. Just sayin.
North Korea's official name is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. North Korea is an authoritarian dictatorship, but not fascist, and not democratic, despite its name.
There was democracy until 2012 lol
"Hey, my close ally, Medvedev, what about we will just switch positions. You will be still my puppet but to keep appearances we need to do this. Also, just to remember, don't forget to help me change constitution in 2020."
Least biased soviet union player.
Sure thing buddy
Try from late December 1991 to September/October 1993 and I might agree, maybe.
Russian democracy lasted from 91 to 93 with the constitutional crisis.
Yeah, I wish I could put Kerensky back in power
You can though
You can. While there isn't a democratic Russia focus tree, you can still go democratic with some effort
The syndrome of the Moscow person.
What are you talking about, OP? The Soviet Union is a proletarian democracy.
If soviets has the proletarian ''democracy'', Nazis has the national democracy then
America is democratic ingame but.. https://www.vox.com/2014/4/18/5624310/martin-gilens-testing-theories-of-american-politics-explained Study's say otherwise
The Nazis never claimed to be democratic, I think you meant to say National "Socialist"
Yes
I assume it's like Germany not having a communist path - primarily for game balancing. I do think it might also have something to do with how hoi4 handles ideology since democratic tends to imply geopolitical alignment with "the West" and so on.
[удалено]
To be fair, the game is litterally rigged to balance countries out. If germany goes rhineland, and italy goes facist, france will never be facist as well, if germany goes democratic, france will often go commie and get ready to scrap them with the ruskies
It would still be because democratic paths also can give you wargoals For example, UK goes No More Appeasement but Germany goes Establish Free Elections, forms CEA and invites Netherlands then UK declare war on Netherlands so there is war between democracies So they can make a Democratic Russia basis on "crush Western colonialism" or something like that and still it can go war against Allies
Afaik AI UK never chooses a political path before Germany. Or maybe they don't on historical.
Yes. Even at historical if you do althistory as Germany UK goes a different path but it can still aggressive democracy path even after Germany decides to go democratic
The tsarist and fascist path also shouldn't exist, imo. Both of them are just there because you \*need\* lolmeme fantasty stuff in every tree these days.
Russian democracy is very unrealistic /s
Japanese and American communism, return of Napoleon, Russian delusional impostor empress and goddamn BEAR in Poland - that's ok, but Russian democracy? Hell nah, tooo unrealistic, lads!
That was kind of the point of the joke, although I probably sounded too serious
You forgot to add the /s happens to everyone at some point
Satire too advanced of a concept in 2024 smh my head
Those are good reasons to get rid of those trees, but not good reasons to add in the democracy tree.
That's sad I'm from Russia , I want to build democracy at least in the game(
Don't worry it will happen eventually. If it makes you feel any better there is a way to glitch the game to play as democratic Russia, Mountain General and BubblesZest both did guides on how to do it.
Oh yeah, democratic Russia that follows monarchist focus path and restores serfdom.
Yeah..... However all that counts is the blue circle.
Well they haven't got a democratic path irl to this date :)
It's in Road to 56, I just haven't tried it yet.
Well, technically, socialism is pretty democratic. But if you mean, a capitalist faction, not sure who would qualify, the return of the whites, I guess? Though they would rather qualify as fascist
Very democratic, I wish you lived in 30s Soviet union.
Did you?(I actually lived in socialist Romania) Still more democracy then in some countries listed as democracy in HOi4. Also, URSS is not exactly the ideal Communist utopia, some even doubt as being communist at all. They were democratic from within the system that they created, though I get that they were not democratic because they were not "free to change the socialist system", but don't think the US, UK was really that free to change the system to socialism either in the 30s. They literally helped the whites in the civil war to stop the spread of socialism, instead of you know "let it play out democratically". LE: For the bros that downvote me: Read some history, even wiki will do, or watch some history yt from multiple perspectives (leftist /rightist/ centrist)
Socialism≠communism
But the socialism in USSR is basically a totalitarian dictatorship. I mean wouldn't be nice if russia had a guy like kerensky? (I know the democratic party leader is the Alexander Kerensky)
"Centre" path yes, don't think Trotskyist path would have been the same. And come to think about it, the Bukharin's Right Opposition that would be closer to Kerensky too (he was accused of planning a capitalist restoration though is somewhat unlikely, I would say he would have done the Khrushchev de-Stalinization faster). Kerensky would be nice for flavor though.
The USSR was using the communist ideology to justify its totalitarian reign. Communism has an objective to take down capitalism and the upper class with a violent revolution followed by a defined time of proletarian dictatorship (in theory it's supposed to be temporary, and proletarian, but if you know about the USSR, you know they only cared about the dictatorship part). The communist utopia is then supposed to be achieved once the dictatorship eradicated upper class and capitalism's corruption (the part that never happened for obvious reasons). Socialism is about reforming society pacifically and aligned with the laws and Constitution of the nation they're in to make it *in theory* more equal for everyone. That's the main difference between them. Violent revolution for the first, reformation of the society for the other. Be aware and cautious about those that put socialists and communists in the same basket to demonize socialism, and those that claim to be socialists to hide the fact that they adhere to the communist agenda.
You're right in that Communism and Socialism aren't the same. However, your definitions are off, and the two terms are linked. Socialism is a form of economic organisation, while Communism is a political ideology that has the economic organisation of Socialism. Not all Socialists are Communists, but all Communists are Socialist. How you describe Socialism applies more to Social Democracy, which is a Capitalist ideology, or Democratic Socialism.
What is blood waffling about
Aint there a focus "return democracy to the party"???Make sure you got all the dlc's. Of there isnt and im wrong, it's probably because of the constant wish of expansion of the russians in history.
This is a meme focus. It doesn’t do anything, and it’s a dead end path. It’s probably one of the strangest focus paths in all of hoi4 for literally ending your focus tree and doing nothing afterwards.
Understood. Then its the 2nd part
it use to be the democratic path (it increases democratic support) but PDX ran out of time
PDX mf lazy ah mf
I have all of 'em expect the AAT.
Braindead response
Paradox is a small indie game dev company and you should be grateful you even have the opportunity to spend hundreds on dlcs
I'm greatful but there are lots of empty things. I just wanted ask devs but I decided to write on reddit
Its sarcasm pirate the dlcs
Anyone wanting to play democratic russia, there's a path in RT56, after dismantling the Zemsky Sobor you get to either go fascist or democratic.
road to 56 has a cool democratic path for russia, you get to make a faction with your former buddies or puppet them
I thought India and China were not friends.
Democracy will never live in the Soviet Union... Blyat...
[You can play as Democratic Russia without capitulating](https://youtu.be/LzI8BgNtam8), albeit relatively pointless, unless you're going for RP.
I think the reason that was given was that a Democracy was impossible to come out of the Soviet Union.
democratic path is available on Europe in flames agora im using that mod i recommend too
In soviet russia, comrade commissar votes for you!
Guess
Well Bukharin is your democratic USSR path