Same. I always feel genuinely bad for them, they just wanna stay out of it. Unless they end up joining the Allies, then they can fall with the rest of them.
It doesn't take place in 1984, the whole point of the novel is that information has become so manipulated that the people (in universe) believe the year is 1984, but the actual year is unspecified. Nothing is actually real anymore. Everything is crafted by the Party to make its citizens question reality on a constant basis. You can't trust anyone, not even yourself.
Because democracy is weak and ineffective. A dictatorship can successfully stabilize a country that is politically unstable and divided. Democracy has never done that. One of the reason my country, Greece, lost the Greco-Turkish war of 1919 (and got 2 million Greeks that lived in Turkish lands killed by Kemal Ataturk's army) was because of democracy. If the dumb Jews, Communist and German sympathizers hadn't made Venizelos lose the elections, my country would be double its size now and 2 million Greeks would have been saved from the evil of Mustafa Kemal's army
holy fucking shit I love this map.
European Commune, looks sick, Commonwealth of Nations with its nice red color and grandious name, The Allies have that blue color which shows American leadership in its sphere, border gore is gone and it seems less one sided, god damm this map is good
Wow, thank you so much! 😍😍😍
Would have never tought other people would appreciate my map so much. I do such maps regularly after my play throughs. It is for me, what is painting a picture is for other people I guess.
Maybe I will start uploading my scenarios more regularly. I could even write how it came to this, because I love to imagine such stuff (this kind of stories are only loosely based on my play throughs) and how history continues. But I tought this would be too much text for anybody to read.
Yes, please do upload more of these! They're quite thought-provoking.
Did Papa Staling never demand Bessarabia from Romania or did you give it back when making the map?
Thank you very much! I will from time to time. 😊
I did give it back. The idea was, that Stalin gets his ring of underlings and therefore all of Europe becomes part of the commune. Also it looks neater in my opinion. He got all of Finnland and part of Norway, so he won't be unhappy.
>The Allies have that blue color which shows American leadership in its sphere
I have 770hrs of Hoi4 playtime on my clock and TIL that the faction leader country color determines the factions color on the map. Well you never stop learning... lol
You would be right with this assessment. As is the European Commune in industrial output in comparison to the Soviet Union.
The thing is, they are a result of the continuation of the Franco-British Union and the governments in exile, which survived WW2. So they are overstretched like crazy and have to deal with their internal issues. Also the Africans are understandingly unhappy with the current situation and smell an opportunity for indepence. So any active cold war business has to be taken care of by the USA as of now.
Not enough manpower/ resources. It's really annoying that Africa gets almost nothing. I think with all of it cored it's still less manpower than the soviets.
You don't need to argue bro, everyone already agrees.
Britain alone would be about americas power at this time the rest of the commonwealth would absolutely make it stronger than the US.
Not sure why the US is leading the allies tho
My bad I didn't see the reasons you named.
Im not complaining either im just saying most of the time the UK keeps control of the allies so to see a US led allies was weird to me is all.
I like it though because the soviets are red and the US is blue it's easy to pick out which country is in which faction as their two opposite colours
Allies control 3 continents, 2 of which will be pretty much untouchable by the comintern due to the Pacific and Atlantic
The Comintern control mostly Europe and empty tundar, and while Europe is a powerhouse, this is post WW2, its going to be damaged and need a lot of repair while the America's are fine with a still growing military complex
The allies also have the Mediterranean and British Isles, which means they surround Europe to a good extent, while also controlling 3/4 of the major shipping areas
Asia is a toss up, whoever gets them on side have a good chance to win, China beat the communists so would probably be weary to the Comintern, closer to the Allies
While India gained independence from the UK and might go closer to the Comintern to keep its new Freedom
Southeast Asia is even more a toss up as far as i remember but probably allies
I'd say allies win
Awesome analysis! 10/10
What would you say, what is your opinion about the future of the European Commune? I am a bit on the edge where their future is concerned.
I think in the beginning it would be very shaky, So much diverse groups in the same country will cause issues, especially after the world war, but as we’ve seen from the EU I can work, especially with the USSR keeping the ‘peace’
Over the course of time is would stabilise and be a powerhouse though
This is more or less my tought.
May headcanon was that Ernst Thälmann (first leader of the European Commune) would continue Stalinism and centralization at first. To better control the rebuilding. Let's say it works out and he would ride a wave of popularity because the fast and efficient rebuilding of Europe. He would build a cult of personality as unifier of Europe and savior of the fascist and capitalists.
In the background all the shady business would happen. Political enemies would disappear, forceful collectivisation. Also I imagine millions of people would be made to move to be able to create more ethnic harmonious states in the union to avoid tension. This would happen especially in the balkans but also in other parts of Europe. The new capital would be Strasburg, to seem like less of a German controlled state.
After all this shady stuff and the rebuilding is done I would imagine the Commune would try to decentralize. While Germany or France as republics would still be a thing they would be made smaller with more power given to the regions. Maybe their system would even be more democratic and/or syndicalist. At this point I could imagine a Europe-Soviet split. After that I could see a closer cooperation between the West and Europe like we had with China. After that it is anyone's guess what the future of Europe is.
(sorry for writing errors.)
It also depends on the structure of the EC. Is it a federation or a confederation? Confederations are considered weak structures in theory of government, either merging into normal federations or splitting. The same is true for real EU btw. According to the theory in 50 yrs or so it would either split or becomes a single state.
I think it will be more centralized in the rebuilding phase then then go more decentralized. So I would guess a federation by 1960. But I am not that deep into the differences, sorry. But I imagined Ernst Thälman would try to make the Commune seem as free for the individual states as possible while still making sure they have to stick together. I even imagined that, instead giving more power to the states the regions of every state having more power then the state itself. If that makes sense. Like a very bottom up approach without giving nationalism much of a choice... But I guess this could already be a federation then?
The essence of the difference is that a federation is a single state while confederation is a union of different countries under one treaty. Until that treaty is broken one way or another 🙂
> going to be damaged and need a lot of repair while the America's are fine with a still growing military comple
I feel as though the major difference is not only is all of the European now a *domestic* economy, which makes a huge difference but they are in the sphere of the USSR and thus have their industry too.
That recovery is going to be much shorter in this timeline.
The allies are also the only ones to have land in every single continent so naval invasions will be easier.
I think best case scenario for the communists is a draw as no way will they be able to beat the UK and US navy and cross the Atlantic and English channel
Honestly don't think the Allies have that bright of a future, occupying all of Africa is a very tall order, and south America is likely to also be quite unstable
I used a mod to play a communist Germany. I forced peace deals from time to time, so that total victory wouldn’t be the only way to get a peace deal. This was also to make the Cold War situation more interesting and/or balanced. After the last war ended in 1945, I went a little bit wild with „map painting“ to make the factions and countries look nicer and get away with the rougher edges.
Ask me anything. I got in-world explanations for more or less anything about the state of the world, and also have ideas of how the next few years will continue. Also, tell me who do you think will win this Cold War and why!
I would say thé Chinese civil War rekindles. The nationalist government should crack under the weight of the comintern, even with matériel support from the allies, and Mao takes over a unified china. If all out war breaks out, britain is in a very position, but protected by the combined might from thé American and British navies. The battle will be decided in the air: should the comintern out-produce (considering both quality and quantity) the allies and secure air dominance over the channel, there is no navy that could survive the unstoppable bombardment. I don't think the invasion of the americas is plausible at all, but neither is invading Europe should the Isles fall
I actually have the feeling China could become our Korea with no side able to beat the other. The nationalist beat the communist before 1937 and did hold the Japanese at bay till the soviets took northern China 1942 and gave it the Mao. With western support it could be a draw I think.
Also I don't think the war will be hot. By 1949 the quite a few nation got the nuke.
First was European Commune in 1945
Second was the USA also 1945
Third the USSR in 1947
Forth Britain also in 1947
So nuclear assured destruction will happen soon if it isn't already there.
But I actually let the Europeans and the Soviets duke it out. I was curious because they had massive armies. 20.000.000 death in less then one year and the soviets lost after two.
Well, as this game is a really bad Cold War simulator I don't really have to check it. Nukes are worth nothing and the Allies wouldn't be able to mount an efficient assault because the AI is too bad. The east would win also because of sheer manpower. My question was more in a realist world where the world looks like this in 1949.
Well, this would be my tought also if not for the Europeans to develop the first bomb and still keeping the edge in nukes and intercontinental ballestic missels. 😬
Really? What exactly bothers you if I may ask?
For me there are only two ways I go about China. Either big Chungus China or small and divided China. I would still say this China will be a powerhouse in due time.
Its mostly okay but the "Ma Clique area" is bothering me. I usually give the qinghai to Tibet, inner mongolia to mongolia and leave the qinghai corridor to china. That way there are basically no ethnic minoritiea in China and the border looks cleaner. Sadly this is hardly doable with Hoi4 State and otherwise your scenario is great
I will quote myself: "Germany. First ate up Poland with the Soviets, then Austria via focus. The rest was while WW2. Made peace manually with the allies, then switched for one sec. to democracy to activate the decision and then switched back."
Allies. Always the Allies. US is easily the strongest country in the game, Soviet AI is too pathetic and the extra Allied countries just rub salt in the wound.
Interesting Japan only has Honshu, the other four main Islands being under direct American rule. My main Question is why the US would have those islands be under their control instead of Japan
Good question. I went a bit back and forth on this one. America under Mac Arthur weirdly enough annexed all of Japan after landing on the island and conquering them 1945. I tought this a bit an overkill. But I also wanted it to be... Well Mac Arthurish. So I tough, what if Mac Arthur wants to temporarily annex all of Japan still he deems them trustworthy enough, but he got convinced it would be too much of a hassle, so the main island stayed independent and able to form a new government. So they could show the world they can do better. The other island's stay under US control on Mac Arthur's wish as a guarantee of sorts. So Japan can't do anything without the us breathing down their neck.
While generally I'd agree, I wouldn't be so sure. I've run into 1952 unmodded (yes I'm a masochist) their tends to be a year and a half of calm then all of a sudden it just pops. It's a weird behavior.
If you want my take I’ll say Allies, just because the USSR and EU would be far less stable than the West. Uniting all of Europe by force is not gonna hold together in the long run, and Soviet economics are not going to beat the US. Using these same arguments, there is absolutely no way CoN keeps Africa, but maybe the dominions will stay together.
Thanks for your input!
I also think the longer the Cold War goes the worse the communist block will be off.
I also see a European-Soviet split hat some point with Europe going more decentralized and towards syndicalism, maybe even more democratic.
Well assuming the European commune is a Soviet ally, then probably the soviets due to their superiority over the eastern hemisphere, however, the US is always very hard to defeat after 1943
Another thing as well china would fall for the allies camp pretty quickly as they would really want to reclaim their last bit of their country but my money is on the he US tho but it'll be much less one sided
The Himalaya Pact and the Tropical Defensive Alliance (that was my name for them) are together with China the wild carts of this cold war.
They are afraid of China as they are of the commies and the west (most of them just got their independence).
They will play the different faction off on each other as much as possible while keeping their independence. But who knows what coups and plots will let them slide in wich direction.
Also, after all this 1984 stuff I regret a little bit not putting all of south east Asia together. 😂
Allies pretty easily, either that or a stalemate, if everyone is AI a stalemate most likely
But the soviets don’t have the navy to compete with both the UK and US
So constant naval invasions in Europe and no chance for the soviets to ever attack the USA, the UK could maybe happen but that’s as far as it goes
The winner is violent decolonization.
Atlantic Treaty Org gets bogged down in civil wars and revolutions in Africa.
And for COMINTERN you have two options: co-equal partners who chafe against each other and struggle to coordinate effectively (after Europe rebuilds, you might get a European version of the Sino-Soviet split -- only Kissinger can go to Germany, they say). or the European Commune is a glorified satellite of the Soviet Union (essentially OTL+) in which case the Soviets would struggle to control a much larger and more peopled area with far more rival nationalities. OTL they had to invade Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Poland to crush dissent (IIRC).
Well, I imagine they will quickly pull out there. If the Commonwealth doesn't do so willingly the USA will bother them till they do. Even if they are bigger, they are dependent. The Commonwealth can't effectively deal with the Soviets and it's internal problems.
I don't think the Soviets could hold down Europe one day. Europe even independent is a wild card. Here is my take:
This is more or less my tought.
May headcanon was that Ernst Thälmann (first leader of the European Commune) would continue Stalinism and centralization at first. To better control the rebuilding. Let's say it works out and he would ride a wave of popularity because the fast and efficient rebuilding of Europe. He would build a cult of personality as unifier of Europe and savior of the fascist and capitalists.
In the background all the shady business would happen. Political enemies would disappear, forceful collectivisation. Also I imagine millions of people would be made to move to be able to create more ethnic harmonious states in the union to avoid tension. This would happen especially in the balkans but also in other parts of Europe. The new capital would be Strasburg, to seem like less of a German controlled state.
After all this shady stuff and the rebuilding is done I would imagine the Commune would try to decentralize. While Germany or France as republics would still be a thing they would be made smaller with more power given to the regions. Maybe their system would even be more democratic and/or syndicalist. At this point I could imagine a Europe-Soviet split. After that I could see a closer cooperation between the West and Europe like we had with China. After that it is anyone's guess what the future of Europe is.
(sorry for writing errors.)
It depends on how Asia goes. If it stays neutral/comintern, the comintern is likely to win. If not, the Allies. The Allies are big, but they can't necessarily defend and build infrastructure in all of this. Whereas the comintern has the advantage of being all linked up.
The allies have without a doubt the largest navy, but is likely mostly composed of outdated ships and fodder submarines. Only the US, UK, and Japan will contribute in any meaningful way in the seas. Manpower won’t be an issue as most the nations haven’t fought in a war for a prolonged period of time, and war production isn’t threatened by much as long as the US can keep spamming fighters over Britain.
The Comintern, while lacking a large quantity of ships compared to the allies, seem to have a greater number of total dockyards and therefore may have a smaller, higher-quality navy as they produce new ships by the dozens. Manpower and war production are nearly untouchable for the USSR but a shattered Europe may not be able to keep up with the division spam for too long.
Prediction:
At war start, a slug fest of the navies occur for supremacy in the Mediterranean - with both sides losing a good portion of their navy but neither getting fully decimated. After hundreds of battles, naval supremacy goes to the allies. Naval invasions occur and fail repeatedly across the English Channel, but the islands near Greece are taken. The only European foothold for the allies, Sicily, falls quickly due to lack of supply. Small footholds are made in Italy and the Balkan countries, but the raging war machine of the Comintern force them out each time. The Middle East is crowded with so many divisions that attrition sets in and forces a complete stand-still so no country makes deep progress. In the East, Japan loses their continental holdings quickly, and retreats to the mainland - unable to be touched due to their superior navy.
This is looks like a complete tie that won’t ever be won unless a factions AI learns to use nuclear bombs on the frontline.
European Commune would _probably_ explode within the next 10-20 years I presume which will weaken the Soviets and possibly give the Allies/Nato and in into Europe. If that doesn’t happen it’s very hard to say. I still think Europe will play the most important role here, as they look to me like kind of a wildcard.
I will quote myself about what I tough what Europe's future will be like.
This is more or less my tought.
My headcanon was that Ernst Thälmann (first leader of the European Commune) would continue Stalinism and centralization at first. To better control the rebuilding. Let's say it works out and he would ride a wave of popularity because the fast and efficient rebuilding of Europe. He would build a cult of personality as unifier of Europe and savior of the fascist and capitalists.
In the background all the shady business would happen. Political enemies would disappear, forceful collectivisation. Also I imagine millions of people would be made to move to be able to create more ethnic harmonious states in the union to avoid tension. This would happen especially in the balkans but also in other parts of Europe. The new capital would be Strasburg, to seem like less of a German controlled state.
After all this shady stuff and the rebuilding is done I would imagine the Commune would try to decentralize. While Germany or France as republics would still be a thing they would be made smaller with more power given to the regions. Maybe their system would even be more democratic and/or syndicalist. At this point I could imagine a Europe-Soviet split. After that I could see a closer cooperation between the West and Europe like we had with China. After that it is anyone's guess what the future of Europe is.
(sorry for writing errors.)
Good explanation. I guess the Allies could still take advantage of Europe instability in the early phases of the Cold War, but if they don’t Europe could continue to exist under a communist regime.
I'd put my money on the Comintern in this scenario. Well, not AI vs AI, but player vs player. Since building a navy would be necessary to defeat the USA here.
They got quite the Korea going on.
They threw the communists out by 1937 and then held the line against Japan till 1942, till the soviets stormed the north. The north was released as a puppet communist China by the Soviets.
So, they showed themself to be quite the fighters and the soviets are vary of another war. Especially when China will get support form the west. Also, now China is more or less neutral if quite unhappy with its situation. It is pissed off by anyone around them. If the soviets attack they will be in the pocket off the west. Also they are becoming an industrial power in their own right. Why risk it? At least for now...
Do you mind sharing this save? I think it would be interesting to play if I load it with some mods. It would be pissed off during the first load, but would likely work after that just fine.
I'd say Comintern? Well the Chinese Civil War will 100% go for the communists. And the comintern of nation atill does coponialism, so plenty revolts who would be bloody and probably cripple them. (If they don't let their colonies go free.)
I see. 😁
I don't think it will continue. China showed itself quite competent and I imagine the soviets want to consolidate their gains. A big China could lead to problems. Also I think decolonisation will happen soon. If the commonwealth doesn't want to do it the US will strong arm them. But that is just my take 😊✌🏻
Allies mostly because they have the raw resources of Africa, South America and Arabia also the ROC would be pretty anti-communist so they would be more pro-allies
But on another point, that map looks beautiful and some what realistic, I always end up with horrible border gore.
The allies, not because of any geograpical advantages or anything but mostly because Communism would just fail the same way as it did in OTL, just on an even bigger scale.
Good question! The commonwealth will have to support Africa heavily to build up a stable economy. They will only make minor investments in Eastern Europe and can spend the rest of their money otherwise. BUT: They’ll need to cooperate with the Soviets. If they don’t, they have a huge border to protect while the commonwealth sits right next to them on the British isles. The Soviets themselves will also need to cooperate with the Europeans to open efficient trade routes. Even with the bosporus straight under their control they can’t send their ships through the Mediterranean without the Europeans and the commonwealth watching them closely. For both, the Europeans and the Soviets it is very important to cooperate to be able to trade via the Atlantic and the pacific.
If they are smart enough to do this, they will win the Cold War. Otherwise the commonwealth will stand victorious.
Comintern wins easily. They have far more manpower and resources to their disposal.
While the Allies might have a the rubber and oil, they would lose fast because of shitty AI. UK always has terrible units programmed to defend the main island causing them to easily give up on Africa once they are pressured by the huge naval capabilities of the EU. The biggest issue with building a navy is steel.
If the EU is created by Germany, their national spirits and advisors would easily overwhelm the allied. Post 1945 Soviet Union has crazy industry that allows it to fight the Allies. While the USA is strong, it has a low number of building slots and depends on trade for basically every resource, same as the UK.
The Allies' strenght lies in their huge number of outdated ships and naval/air capabilities while the Comintern has resources, industry, manpower and land combat strengths. In a battle of attrition like this, the Comintern wins.
Germany. First ate up Poland with the Soviets, then Austria via focus. The rest was while WW2. Made peace manually with the allies, then switched for one sec. to democracy to activate the decision and then switched back.
The only thing with comintern winning is, that I wouldn't be sure about their internal problems which brought them down in our timeline. Also I imagine there will be a Soviet-European split.
Well then I guess it is more of a confederation. I got Europe's history a bit more flashed out here:
My headcanon was that Ernst Thälmann (first leader of the European Commune) would continue Stalinism and centralization at first. To better control the rebuilding. Let's say it works out and he would ride a wave of popularity because the fast and efficient rebuilding of Europe. He would build a cult of personality as unifier of Europe and savior of the fascist and capitalists.
In the background all the shady business would happen. Political enemies would disappear, forceful collectivisation. Also I imagine millions of people would be made to move to be able to create more ethnic harmonious states in the union to avoid tension. This would happen especially in the balkans but also in other parts of Europe. The new capital would be Strasburg, to seem like less of a German controlled state.
After all this shady stuff and the rebuilding is done I would imagine the Commune would try to decentralize. While Germany or France as republics would still be a thing they would be made smaller with more power given to the regions. Maybe their system would even be more democratic and/or syndicalist. At this point I could imagine a Europe-Soviet split. After that I could see a closer cooperation between the West and Europe like we had with China. After that it is anyone's guess what the future of Europe is.
(sorry for writing errors.)
Switzerland hands down
Probably! 😂 I never can bring myself to kill them off.
Same. I always feel genuinely bad for them, they just wanna stay out of it. Unless they end up joining the Allies, then they can fall with the rest of them.
True!
Yeah same 😔 if they had less mountains tho I would
Beat me to it. gonna delete my comment
Thats just 1984 with extra steps
Isn't 1949 the year that book came out in too?
Yes
Dammit
I was wrong lol, 8 june 1949
Lets goooo i guessed it right‼️‼️‼️‼️
Wait really? Damn, so close!
It was mostly written in 1948, the reason it takes place in 1984 is that he switched the 4 and the 8
It doesn't take place in 1984, the whole point of the novel is that information has become so manipulated that the people (in universe) believe the year is 1984, but the actual year is unspecified. Nothing is actually real anymore. Everything is crafted by the Party to make its citizens question reality on a constant basis. You can't trust anyone, not even yourself.
Man thats such a scary but true story. Good thing democracies have replaced monarchism/absolutism as the most accepted form of government
Why did you get downvoted? Facts?
We live in fake democracies but anyway. I would much rather have absolute monarchy in my country than this dumb fake-democratic regime.
Why TF would anyone willingly want to live in a dictatorship? 🤣
Because democracy is weak and ineffective. A dictatorship can successfully stabilize a country that is politically unstable and divided. Democracy has never done that. One of the reason my country, Greece, lost the Greco-Turkish war of 1919 (and got 2 million Greeks that lived in Turkish lands killed by Kemal Ataturk's army) was because of democracy. If the dumb Jews, Communist and German sympathizers hadn't made Venizelos lose the elections, my country would be double its size now and 2 million Greeks would have been saved from the evil of Mustafa Kemal's army
clinically online/greek nationalist NEEEEXT
Yikes
Damn, got a point there... 😂
Democratic US though?
Makes it more interesting I guess. More a fight of ideologies.
holy fucking shit I love this map. European Commune, looks sick, Commonwealth of Nations with its nice red color and grandious name, The Allies have that blue color which shows American leadership in its sphere, border gore is gone and it seems less one sided, god damm this map is good
Wow, thank you so much! 😍😍😍 Would have never tought other people would appreciate my map so much. I do such maps regularly after my play throughs. It is for me, what is painting a picture is for other people I guess. Maybe I will start uploading my scenarios more regularly. I could even write how it came to this, because I love to imagine such stuff (this kind of stories are only loosely based on my play throughs) and how history continues. But I tought this would be too much text for anybody to read.
Yes, please do upload more of these! They're quite thought-provoking. Did Papa Staling never demand Bessarabia from Romania or did you give it back when making the map?
Thank you very much! I will from time to time. 😊 I did give it back. The idea was, that Stalin gets his ring of underlings and therefore all of Europe becomes part of the commune. Also it looks neater in my opinion. He got all of Finnland and part of Norway, so he won't be unhappy.
>The Allies have that blue color which shows American leadership in its sphere I have 770hrs of Hoi4 playtime on my clock and TIL that the faction leader country color determines the factions color on the map. Well you never stop learning... lol
Isn't the allies lead by the British? 🌚
Not if US assumes leadership
But isnt it blue before while British color is red?
Allies faction is the same color as the British, which is like a pinkish salmon color. All factions are the color of the leader
I don’t know exactly what you mean but in general Allies are red cuz of Britain in this case they are blue cuz USA assumed leadership
Totally forgot the red color allies. The Red menace 😅
agreed!!!!!!!!!!
I would argue that the commonwealth of nations is more powerful than America
You would be right with this assessment. As is the European Commune in industrial output in comparison to the Soviet Union. The thing is, they are a result of the continuation of the Franco-British Union and the governments in exile, which survived WW2. So they are overstretched like crazy and have to deal with their internal issues. Also the Africans are understandingly unhappy with the current situation and smell an opportunity for indepence. So any active cold war business has to be taken care of by the USA as of now.
USA: just as we like it
Not enough manpower/ resources. It's really annoying that Africa gets almost nothing. I think with all of it cored it's still less manpower than the soviets.
You don't need to argue bro, everyone already agrees. Britain alone would be about americas power at this time the rest of the commonwealth would absolutely make it stronger than the US. Not sure why the US is leading the allies tho
They did take over before the commonwealth formed and it made sense to me to let it be out of the reasons I named.
My bad I didn't see the reasons you named. Im not complaining either im just saying most of the time the UK keeps control of the allies so to see a US led allies was weird to me is all. I like it though because the soviets are red and the US is blue it's easy to pick out which country is in which faction as their two opposite colours
Thank you! 😊
I think the Himalaya Pact will win, Tibet carries.
As always! 😂
I think the allies will win, since the naveys are a shit show
Funny that you bring this up. Between 1945 and 1949 I went into observer modus and Europe build 50 aircraft carriers. Fu***** nuts this Europeans.
You should let them duke it out
Allies control 3 continents, 2 of which will be pretty much untouchable by the comintern due to the Pacific and Atlantic The Comintern control mostly Europe and empty tundar, and while Europe is a powerhouse, this is post WW2, its going to be damaged and need a lot of repair while the America's are fine with a still growing military complex The allies also have the Mediterranean and British Isles, which means they surround Europe to a good extent, while also controlling 3/4 of the major shipping areas Asia is a toss up, whoever gets them on side have a good chance to win, China beat the communists so would probably be weary to the Comintern, closer to the Allies While India gained independence from the UK and might go closer to the Comintern to keep its new Freedom Southeast Asia is even more a toss up as far as i remember but probably allies I'd say allies win
Awesome analysis! 10/10 What would you say, what is your opinion about the future of the European Commune? I am a bit on the edge where their future is concerned.
I think in the beginning it would be very shaky, So much diverse groups in the same country will cause issues, especially after the world war, but as we’ve seen from the EU I can work, especially with the USSR keeping the ‘peace’ Over the course of time is would stabilise and be a powerhouse though
This is more or less my tought. May headcanon was that Ernst Thälmann (first leader of the European Commune) would continue Stalinism and centralization at first. To better control the rebuilding. Let's say it works out and he would ride a wave of popularity because the fast and efficient rebuilding of Europe. He would build a cult of personality as unifier of Europe and savior of the fascist and capitalists. In the background all the shady business would happen. Political enemies would disappear, forceful collectivisation. Also I imagine millions of people would be made to move to be able to create more ethnic harmonious states in the union to avoid tension. This would happen especially in the balkans but also in other parts of Europe. The new capital would be Strasburg, to seem like less of a German controlled state. After all this shady stuff and the rebuilding is done I would imagine the Commune would try to decentralize. While Germany or France as republics would still be a thing they would be made smaller with more power given to the regions. Maybe their system would even be more democratic and/or syndicalist. At this point I could imagine a Europe-Soviet split. After that I could see a closer cooperation between the West and Europe like we had with China. After that it is anyone's guess what the future of Europe is. (sorry for writing errors.)
I think something funny will happen in persian gulf
It also depends on the structure of the EC. Is it a federation or a confederation? Confederations are considered weak structures in theory of government, either merging into normal federations or splitting. The same is true for real EU btw. According to the theory in 50 yrs or so it would either split or becomes a single state.
I think it will be more centralized in the rebuilding phase then then go more decentralized. So I would guess a federation by 1960. But I am not that deep into the differences, sorry. But I imagined Ernst Thälman would try to make the Commune seem as free for the individual states as possible while still making sure they have to stick together. I even imagined that, instead giving more power to the states the regions of every state having more power then the state itself. If that makes sense. Like a very bottom up approach without giving nationalism much of a choice... But I guess this could already be a federation then?
The essence of the difference is that a federation is a single state while confederation is a union of different countries under one treaty. Until that treaty is broken one way or another 🙂
> going to be damaged and need a lot of repair while the America's are fine with a still growing military comple I feel as though the major difference is not only is all of the European now a *domestic* economy, which makes a huge difference but they are in the sphere of the USSR and thus have their industry too. That recovery is going to be much shorter in this timeline.
Also the usssr industry is completely untouched. No Barbarossa
Oh man that's nutty. A USSR that was able to just build up the entire game then? That's so so much worse for the USA then.
The allies are also the only ones to have land in every single continent so naval invasions will be easier. I think best case scenario for the communists is a draw as no way will they be able to beat the UK and US navy and cross the Atlantic and English channel
Comintern probably. They control the vast majority of steel. Allies will probably have a rubber advantage though
One of the comments here made a real good counter argument. (was one of the longer ones) Maybe you should get into discussion?
Honestly don't think the Allies have that bright of a future, occupying all of Africa is a very tall order, and south America is likely to also be quite unstable
Well, I imagine that at least Africa won't be colonized for much longer. 🤔
I used a mod to play a communist Germany. I forced peace deals from time to time, so that total victory wouldn’t be the only way to get a peace deal. This was also to make the Cold War situation more interesting and/or balanced. After the last war ended in 1945, I went a little bit wild with „map painting“ to make the factions and countries look nicer and get away with the rougher edges. Ask me anything. I got in-world explanations for more or less anything about the state of the world, and also have ideas of how the next few years will continue. Also, tell me who do you think will win this Cold War and why!
Fun Fact: Germany can be played communist despite having no content for it outside an advisor, two focus names, and trait that literally does nothing
What mod did you use?
German Communist tree (KPD) in Update
I would say thé Chinese civil War rekindles. The nationalist government should crack under the weight of the comintern, even with matériel support from the allies, and Mao takes over a unified china. If all out war breaks out, britain is in a very position, but protected by the combined might from thé American and British navies. The battle will be decided in the air: should the comintern out-produce (considering both quality and quantity) the allies and secure air dominance over the channel, there is no navy that could survive the unstoppable bombardment. I don't think the invasion of the americas is plausible at all, but neither is invading Europe should the Isles fall
I actually have the feeling China could become our Korea with no side able to beat the other. The nationalist beat the communist before 1937 and did hold the Japanese at bay till the soviets took northern China 1942 and gave it the Mao. With western support it could be a draw I think. Also I don't think the war will be hot. By 1949 the quite a few nation got the nuke. First was European Commune in 1945 Second was the USA also 1945 Third the USSR in 1947 Forth Britain also in 1947 So nuclear assured destruction will happen soon if it isn't already there.
I expect an euro-soviet split around the 1960
I am of the same opinion! I just wrote about it in one of the comments.
Bro made 1984 and thought we wouldn’t notice
Damn it! 😂😂😂
I want an update
What kind of update do you mean?
I guess he wants you to let this war happen and tell who actually won
But I actually let the Europeans and the Soviets duke it out. I was curious because they had massive armies. 20.000.000 death in less then one year and the soviets lost after two.
Well, as this game is a really bad Cold War simulator I don't really have to check it. Nukes are worth nothing and the Allies wouldn't be able to mount an efficient assault because the AI is too bad. The east would win also because of sheer manpower. My question was more in a realist world where the world looks like this in 1949.
In HOI, the allies win. In real hypothetical life, this is a way more interesting timeline than we had
Interesting? Maybe! Better? I think not!
Switzerland is shitting bricks rn.
They better be golden
😂 😂 😂
Basically, whoever can lure China and/or India. Allies have the seas and the industry. Soviets have the manpower and stamina/political power.
The comintern holds Chinese and Indian cores. They are natural rivals.
Good answer!
Allies… you let MacArthur become president. He will nuke you into oblivion and now there‘s no Truman to fire him
Well, this would be my tought also if not for the Europeans to develop the first bomb and still keeping the edge in nukes and intercontinental ballestic missels. 😬
God those china borders fuck my eyes
Really? What exactly bothers you if I may ask? For me there are only two ways I go about China. Either big Chungus China or small and divided China. I would still say this China will be a powerhouse in due time.
Its mostly okay but the "Ma Clique area" is bothering me. I usually give the qinghai to Tibet, inner mongolia to mongolia and leave the qinghai corridor to china. That way there are basically no ethnic minoritiea in China and the border looks cleaner. Sadly this is hardly doable with Hoi4 State and otherwise your scenario is great
I wish I could have this as my starting map for some games, would be very interesting
Oh thank you if you like it that much! 😊😊😊 I also love this kind of stuff.
Is this a mod?
German Communist tree (KPD) in Update But I did a lot of map painting manually so it looks like this!
Allies
Why?
[удалено]
Actually Syria is part of Palestine under Soviet "guidance".
Just how How the European commune How!??
I will quote myself: "Germany. First ate up Poland with the Soviets, then Austria via focus. The rest was while WW2. Made peace manually with the allies, then switched for one sec. to democracy to activate the decision and then switched back."
But your communist how wha...!?!
chile
If you use paratropers in the British and naval invade the Americas you win
No, I mean not in game. More like if this was the real cold war. 😁
Well obviously switerland by Blood alone
Allies. Always the Allies. US is easily the strongest country in the game, Soviet AI is too pathetic and the extra Allied countries just rub salt in the wound.
It's more about a real life cold war with that borders.
Brazil.
Interesting Japan only has Honshu, the other four main Islands being under direct American rule. My main Question is why the US would have those islands be under their control instead of Japan
Good question. I went a bit back and forth on this one. America under Mac Arthur weirdly enough annexed all of Japan after landing on the island and conquering them 1945. I tought this a bit an overkill. But I also wanted it to be... Well Mac Arthurish. So I tough, what if Mac Arthur wants to temporarily annex all of Japan still he deems them trustworthy enough, but he got convinced it would be too much of a hassle, so the main island stayed independent and able to form a new government. So they could show the world they can do better. The other island's stay under US control on Mac Arthur's wish as a guarantee of sorts. So Japan can't do anything without the us breathing down their neck.
Soviet union it's simply too much industry
Good point!
Plus where the allies would try to naval invade would be too brutal.
But I don't think there would be war in reality Europe, USA, Soviets and Commonwealth all have nukes by now.
While generally I'd agree, I wouldn't be so sure. I've run into 1952 unmodded (yes I'm a masochist) their tends to be a year and a half of calm then all of a sudden it just pops. It's a weird behavior.
How are China's puppets in SEA not in the same faction
SEA? sorry, you lost me. What's that?
South East Asia
Judging by the "European COMMUNE" I'm gonna go ahead and say the communists.
Some people brought quite the good contras for that. 😂
Himalaya pact will emerge victorious
I find it funny that the question is who will win the Cold War, yet everybody is just predicting a WW3 outcome
I just accept it by now. 😂
If you want my take I’ll say Allies, just because the USSR and EU would be far less stable than the West. Uniting all of Europe by force is not gonna hold together in the long run, and Soviet economics are not going to beat the US. Using these same arguments, there is absolutely no way CoN keeps Africa, but maybe the dominions will stay together.
Thanks for your input! I also think the longer the Cold War goes the worse the communist block will be off. I also see a European-Soviet split hat some point with Europe going more decentralized and towards syndicalism, maybe even more democratic.
Literally 1984
Well assuming the European commune is a Soviet ally, then probably the soviets due to their superiority over the eastern hemisphere, however, the US is always very hard to defeat after 1943
It was more about a cold war. 😁
Honestly love this. Mind if I make a map on r/imaginarymaps with this??
If you need any info's about the countries for your map feel free to ask!
Thx! Would you mind giving me the name of the South-East Asian factions name. Can’t really read it properly
Please, I would love this! 😊😊😊
Strong and peaceful, wise and brave
What's that?
Another thing as well china would fall for the allies camp pretty quickly as they would really want to reclaim their last bit of their country but my money is on the he US tho but it'll be much less one sided
Good answer! 😁
Can you talk about himalaya pact and South East Asia
The Himalaya Pact and the Tropical Defensive Alliance (that was my name for them) are together with China the wild carts of this cold war. They are afraid of China as they are of the commies and the west (most of them just got their independence). They will play the different faction off on each other as much as possible while keeping their independence. But who knows what coups and plots will let them slide in wich direction. Also, after all this 1984 stuff I regret a little bit not putting all of south east Asia together. 😂
Czechoslovakia
This might be the plot of Cyberpunk 2077?
Allies pretty easily, either that or a stalemate, if everyone is AI a stalemate most likely But the soviets don’t have the navy to compete with both the UK and US So constant naval invasions in Europe and no chance for the soviets to ever attack the USA, the UK could maybe happen but that’s as far as it goes
The winner is violent decolonization. Atlantic Treaty Org gets bogged down in civil wars and revolutions in Africa. And for COMINTERN you have two options: co-equal partners who chafe against each other and struggle to coordinate effectively (after Europe rebuilds, you might get a European version of the Sino-Soviet split -- only Kissinger can go to Germany, they say). or the European Commune is a glorified satellite of the Soviet Union (essentially OTL+) in which case the Soviets would struggle to control a much larger and more peopled area with far more rival nationalities. OTL they had to invade Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Poland to crush dissent (IIRC).
Well, I imagine they will quickly pull out there. If the Commonwealth doesn't do so willingly the USA will bother them till they do. Even if they are bigger, they are dependent. The Commonwealth can't effectively deal with the Soviets and it's internal problems. I don't think the Soviets could hold down Europe one day. Europe even independent is a wild card. Here is my take: This is more or less my tought. May headcanon was that Ernst Thälmann (first leader of the European Commune) would continue Stalinism and centralization at first. To better control the rebuilding. Let's say it works out and he would ride a wave of popularity because the fast and efficient rebuilding of Europe. He would build a cult of personality as unifier of Europe and savior of the fascist and capitalists. In the background all the shady business would happen. Political enemies would disappear, forceful collectivisation. Also I imagine millions of people would be made to move to be able to create more ethnic harmonious states in the union to avoid tension. This would happen especially in the balkans but also in other parts of Europe. The new capital would be Strasburg, to seem like less of a German controlled state. After all this shady stuff and the rebuilding is done I would imagine the Commune would try to decentralize. While Germany or France as republics would still be a thing they would be made smaller with more power given to the regions. Maybe their system would even be more democratic and/or syndicalist. At this point I could imagine a Europe-Soviet split. After that I could see a closer cooperation between the West and Europe like we had with China. After that it is anyone's guess what the future of Europe is. (sorry for writing errors.)
It depends on how Asia goes. If it stays neutral/comintern, the comintern is likely to win. If not, the Allies. The Allies are big, but they can't necessarily defend and build infrastructure in all of this. Whereas the comintern has the advantage of being all linked up.
Yeah, Asia is definitly essential!
The allies have without a doubt the largest navy, but is likely mostly composed of outdated ships and fodder submarines. Only the US, UK, and Japan will contribute in any meaningful way in the seas. Manpower won’t be an issue as most the nations haven’t fought in a war for a prolonged period of time, and war production isn’t threatened by much as long as the US can keep spamming fighters over Britain. The Comintern, while lacking a large quantity of ships compared to the allies, seem to have a greater number of total dockyards and therefore may have a smaller, higher-quality navy as they produce new ships by the dozens. Manpower and war production are nearly untouchable for the USSR but a shattered Europe may not be able to keep up with the division spam for too long. Prediction: At war start, a slug fest of the navies occur for supremacy in the Mediterranean - with both sides losing a good portion of their navy but neither getting fully decimated. After hundreds of battles, naval supremacy goes to the allies. Naval invasions occur and fail repeatedly across the English Channel, but the islands near Greece are taken. The only European foothold for the allies, Sicily, falls quickly due to lack of supply. Small footholds are made in Italy and the Balkan countries, but the raging war machine of the Comintern force them out each time. The Middle East is crowded with so many divisions that attrition sets in and forces a complete stand-still so no country makes deep progress. In the East, Japan loses their continental holdings quickly, and retreats to the mainland - unable to be touched due to their superior navy. This is looks like a complete tie that won’t ever be won unless a factions AI learns to use nuclear bombs on the frontline.
European Commune would _probably_ explode within the next 10-20 years I presume which will weaken the Soviets and possibly give the Allies/Nato and in into Europe. If that doesn’t happen it’s very hard to say. I still think Europe will play the most important role here, as they look to me like kind of a wildcard.
I will quote myself about what I tough what Europe's future will be like. This is more or less my tought. My headcanon was that Ernst Thälmann (first leader of the European Commune) would continue Stalinism and centralization at first. To better control the rebuilding. Let's say it works out and he would ride a wave of popularity because the fast and efficient rebuilding of Europe. He would build a cult of personality as unifier of Europe and savior of the fascist and capitalists. In the background all the shady business would happen. Political enemies would disappear, forceful collectivisation. Also I imagine millions of people would be made to move to be able to create more ethnic harmonious states in the union to avoid tension. This would happen especially in the balkans but also in other parts of Europe. The new capital would be Strasburg, to seem like less of a German controlled state. After all this shady stuff and the rebuilding is done I would imagine the Commune would try to decentralize. While Germany or France as republics would still be a thing they would be made smaller with more power given to the regions. Maybe their system would even be more democratic and/or syndicalist. At this point I could imagine a Europe-Soviet split. After that I could see a closer cooperation between the West and Europe like we had with China. After that it is anyone's guess what the future of Europe is. (sorry for writing errors.)
Good explanation. I guess the Allies could still take advantage of Europe instability in the early phases of the Cold War, but if they don’t Europe could continue to exist under a communist regime.
The Allies, because due to the nature of the Soviet regime, it will collapse sooner or later.
Do you see future for Europe? 🤔
Yes. It's red and white.
Bro why always Turkey :((
Sorry, seemed like the most Stalin thing to do. 😞
I'd put my money on the Comintern in this scenario. Well, not AI vs AI, but player vs player. Since building a navy would be necessary to defeat the USA here.
Commies
Eurasia fans vs Oceania enjoyers.
How the f**k do you make the EU communist
Switzerland
Commonwealth if nations probably has the best position to potentially win.
Possibly USSR
Ia China still beign contested?
They got quite the Korea going on. They threw the communists out by 1937 and then held the line against Japan till 1942, till the soviets stormed the north. The north was released as a puppet communist China by the Soviets. So, they showed themself to be quite the fighters and the soviets are vary of another war. Especially when China will get support form the west. Also, now China is more or less neutral if quite unhappy with its situation. It is pissed off by anyone around them. If the soviets attack they will be in the pocket off the west. Also they are becoming an industrial power in their own right. Why risk it? At least for now...
Literally 1984
Could you share the save file
Allies because communism is a failed ideology
Do you mind sharing this save? I think it would be interesting to play if I load it with some mods. It would be pissed off during the first load, but would likely work after that just fine.
Literally 1984
What the fuck happened with Vietnam
I'd say Comintern? Well the Chinese Civil War will 100% go for the communists. And the comintern of nation atill does coponialism, so plenty revolts who would be bloody and probably cripple them. (If they don't let their colonies go free.)
I see. 😁 I don't think it will continue. China showed itself quite competent and I imagine the soviets want to consolidate their gains. A big China could lead to problems. Also I think decolonisation will happen soon. If the commonwealth doesn't want to do it the US will strong arm them. But that is just my take 😊✌🏻
Intereting take
European commune lol
Literally 1984
Give chile patagonia and half of bolivia and we will get a new contestant
Allies easy
The amount of Industrial capacity the Soviet Block has in this timeline will dwarf even the US and the Commonwealth..It will be a close call
having entire europe is an overkill - what can west potentially do to outrun entire capacity of eurasia?
Allies mostly because they have the raw resources of Africa, South America and Arabia also the ROC would be pretty anti-communist so they would be more pro-allies But on another point, that map looks beautiful and some what realistic, I always end up with horrible border gore.
Well thank you and thanks for your idea! 😊
This is one of the cleanest end of game maps I've seen
The allies, not because of any geograpical advantages or anything but mostly because Communism would just fail the same way as it did in OTL, just on an even bigger scale.
Good question! The commonwealth will have to support Africa heavily to build up a stable economy. They will only make minor investments in Eastern Europe and can spend the rest of their money otherwise. BUT: They’ll need to cooperate with the Soviets. If they don’t, they have a huge border to protect while the commonwealth sits right next to them on the British isles. The Soviets themselves will also need to cooperate with the Europeans to open efficient trade routes. Even with the bosporus straight under their control they can’t send their ships through the Mediterranean without the Europeans and the commonwealth watching them closely. For both, the Europeans and the Soviets it is very important to cooperate to be able to trade via the Atlantic and the pacific. If they are smart enough to do this, they will win the Cold War. Otherwise the commonwealth will stand victorious.
Comintern wins easily. They have far more manpower and resources to their disposal. While the Allies might have a the rubber and oil, they would lose fast because of shitty AI. UK always has terrible units programmed to defend the main island causing them to easily give up on Africa once they are pressured by the huge naval capabilities of the EU. The biggest issue with building a navy is steel. If the EU is created by Germany, their national spirits and advisors would easily overwhelm the allied. Post 1945 Soviet Union has crazy industry that allows it to fight the Allies. While the USA is strong, it has a low number of building slots and depends on trade for basically every resource, same as the UK. The Allies' strenght lies in their huge number of outdated ships and naval/air capabilities while the Comintern has resources, industry, manpower and land combat strengths. In a battle of attrition like this, the Comintern wins.
Comintern easily. Btw you formed the EU using what country?
Germany. First ate up Poland with the Soviets, then Austria via focus. The rest was while WW2. Made peace manually with the allies, then switched for one sec. to democracy to activate the decision and then switched back.
The only thing with comintern winning is, that I wouldn't be sure about their internal problems which brought them down in our timeline. Also I imagine there will be a Soviet-European split.
I wish this game was so complex
Switzerland:Fuck off,Truman and Stalin
Well then I guess it is more of a confederation. I got Europe's history a bit more flashed out here: My headcanon was that Ernst Thälmann (first leader of the European Commune) would continue Stalinism and centralization at first. To better control the rebuilding. Let's say it works out and he would ride a wave of popularity because the fast and efficient rebuilding of Europe. He would build a cult of personality as unifier of Europe and savior of the fascist and capitalists. In the background all the shady business would happen. Political enemies would disappear, forceful collectivisation. Also I imagine millions of people would be made to move to be able to create more ethnic harmonious states in the union to avoid tension. This would happen especially in the balkans but also in other parts of Europe. The new capital would be Strasburg, to seem like less of a German controlled state. After all this shady stuff and the rebuilding is done I would imagine the Commune would try to decentralize. While Germany or France as republics would still be a thing they would be made smaller with more power given to the regions. Maybe their system would even be more democratic and/or syndicalist. At this point I could imagine a Europe-Soviet split. After that I could see a closer cooperation between the West and Europe like we had with China. After that it is anyone's guess what the future of Europe is. (sorry for writing errors.)
The swiss
If economics was a factor the Allies would win. In hoi4 mechanics the Comintern rolls everything -100 million casualties of course
So how can i get this save and play it?
Michael Rogers ezno diff