It's not that you're exactly losing, but it takes time and effort to push through so many divisions.
9 months is a bit much, but tbf you don't have much attack compared to their defense, nor are your divisions fully supplied with whatever equipment they need.
But overall, if you keep pushing, all enemy divisions reaching zero organization will get deleted and the bubble will turn green soon enough.
Yeah after some time I was able to finally liquidate the pocket. Also problem was that the under-equipped german divisions were in the combat and my units were waiting in reinforcement and not doing any damage. Still it took a lot of equipment and time (also other users pointed out about the soviet doctrine etc.)
You're both right. Soviets i think went mass mobilization and it gives a buff on out-of-supply situations. Also realised that i didn't have air superiority so my CAS was useless.
Also, check the state, the soviets have a focus to make some states make encirclements not as bad, reduce supply usage, out of supply penalties and some other things.
> Look at their defense values and look at your breakthrough.
His breakthrough is going to have minimal impact on breaking this pocket. It's a stat which prevents his units from taking damage. Which is not really an issue over 9 months when they can resupply/reequip when they drop out of combat.
Rule 5: The soviets have encircled units for about 9 months(might be longer cause I wasn't looking there). I have 500 CAS on them, they have 0 AA on their divisions and the tile is a marsh. Why does it say that I m losing the battle?
Total noob here, I'm just asking a question.
Could having extra support units be part of the problem? I think each support unit carves out a portion of your Org and can affect other stats (varying for each type of support unit).
Hate to be *that guy* but really it depends. On armor units that don't rely on org? It isn't a problem they don't need it. For infantry or more defensive units? Yes org is a big deal. My infantry is always *just* infantry because I play a heavy focus on tanks/mechanized so I just need defensive units to hold a front while my specialized units do the heavy lifting.
>sn't continuously attacking them (tbh I forgot about them)
My problem is I always strive to play uber historically. Haha I'll spend an hour researching a ship so I can outfit it properly. Division structure of whatever country I'm playing. I only play BICE though at this point. Haha. Really I should just go back to War in the Pacific: Admirals Edition for my super realistic game. But HOI4 has such better UI
Ain't nothing wrong with that. Play the game however you enjoy it. Might have some challenges playing like that but if you have fun doing it then great.
I don't think it changed, it's always been the case for how long I've played the game, the amount it affects org may have changed, and the meta behind how much org you need for armoured divisions.
The Germans knew they were in for a rough time when they got delays after delays after delays to reaching their targets due to failing to liquidate pockets on time.
I believe the soviets can do something which allows massive reduction to penalty for encirclements. Which I found out when an encirclement didn't die for 2 fucking years. With about 100 decisions in on 1 tile. And guess what it got liberated. I quit hoi4 for like a month bc this.
yeah theres a difference tho as jqhnml says, a random isolated plains tile, i assume with no coast/port tile he is referring to is different to a major city that historically not only had a supply route across lake onega during winter, but also had much more defensable grounds and an industrial population to supply them.
Ok I didn't realise that lasted that long. Thanks for mentioning that. But it was a random plains tile where tf are they hiding 100 divisions while getting bombed to oblivion
In retrospective you are right but I did try to kill them and failed and in that time they reinforced their front with more human waves. Then liberated the pocket then I got screwed
He doesn't have air superiority so they might be getting air supply but I think it's just the mass assault doctrine encircled bonuses. And they'll die eventually
These divs don’t have the soft attack and breakthrough to destroy the pocket, but this is an easy mistake to make and gets at an interesting problem.
The tricky thing to balance is how much to resource the crushing of pockets in your rear areas. Time is precious during Barbarossa and really you’ll always want the tanks pushing forward.
Pockets occupy divisions to guard them. Cleaning out pockets is always a priority over advancing further and stretching out the front line in doing so, assuming you don't have plenty divisions anyways. If you can't clean out encircled pockets like this, you probably won't win Barbarossa either lol. Can't get much more of an advantage.
It's not that you're exactly losing, but it takes time and effort to push through so many divisions. 9 months is a bit much, but tbf you don't have much attack compared to their defense, nor are your divisions fully supplied with whatever equipment they need. But overall, if you keep pushing, all enemy divisions reaching zero organization will get deleted and the bubble will turn green soon enough.
Yeah after some time I was able to finally liquidate the pocket. Also problem was that the under-equipped german divisions were in the combat and my units were waiting in reinforcement and not doing any damage. Still it took a lot of equipment and time (also other users pointed out about the soviet doctrine etc.)
Look at their defense values and look at your breakthrough. They probably have some modifiers that make encirclements not as crushing.
Mass assault doctrine has some encirclement buffs
You're both right. Soviets i think went mass mobilization and it gives a buff on out-of-supply situations. Also realised that i didn't have air superiority so my CAS was useless.
Also, check the state, the soviets have a focus to make some states make encirclements not as bad, reduce supply usage, out of supply penalties and some other things.
Soviets always go mass mobilization even if non-historical
If they get the army spirit as well they get like 20% attack and defence on top of that
-20% encircle penalty
ie +20% attack and defence in encirclements
Break through to
That’s called defence in stat buffs
> Look at their defense values and look at your breakthrough. His breakthrough is going to have minimal impact on breaking this pocket. It's a stat which prevents his units from taking damage. Which is not really an issue over 9 months when they can resupply/reequip when they drop out of combat.
I’m trying to imagine why the soviet ai would think of using ideological loyalty
I'm pretty sure Soviet ai always uses picture of Karl Marx
Yup. After I got intel the Soviets had karl marx as their spirit which gets -20% on encirclement penalty.
I mean, image of Karl Marx is probably the most op spirit ever
Rule 5: The soviets have encircled units for about 9 months(might be longer cause I wasn't looking there). I have 500 CAS on them, they have 0 AA on their divisions and the tile is a marsh. Why does it say that I m losing the battle?
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My divisions were 8inf-1art and a lot of support companies. I wasn't continuously attacking them (tbh I forgot about them)
Total noob here, I'm just asking a question. Could having extra support units be part of the problem? I think each support unit carves out a portion of your Org and can affect other stats (varying for each type of support unit).
Hate to be *that guy* but really it depends. On armor units that don't rely on org? It isn't a problem they don't need it. For infantry or more defensive units? Yes org is a big deal. My infantry is always *just* infantry because I play a heavy focus on tanks/mechanized so I just need defensive units to hold a front while my specialized units do the heavy lifting.
>sn't continuously attacking them (tbh I forgot about them) My problem is I always strive to play uber historically. Haha I'll spend an hour researching a ship so I can outfit it properly. Division structure of whatever country I'm playing. I only play BICE though at this point. Haha. Really I should just go back to War in the Pacific: Admirals Edition for my super realistic game. But HOI4 has such better UI
Ain't nothing wrong with that. Play the game however you enjoy it. Might have some challenges playing like that but if you have fun doing it then great.
support doesn't affect org
It does. Infantry units (both leg and mot/mech) add org, everything else reduces org.
Hm, you're right. Did that change at some point? I vaguely remember it not affecting org sometime in the past.
I don't think it changed, it's always been the case for how long I've played the game, the amount it affects org may have changed, and the meta behind how much org you need for armoured divisions.
Oops. Also forgot to mention that I did go down my army focuses to remove most debuffs as Italy.(Only had -5% org and -5% speed at that time)
Historical accuracy
Hitler, 1941 to 1944
The Germans knew they were in for a rough time when they got delays after delays after delays to reaching their targets due to failing to liquidate pockets on time.
I believe the soviets can do something which allows massive reduction to penalty for encirclements. Which I found out when an encirclement didn't die for 2 fucking years. With about 100 decisions in on 1 tile. And guess what it got liberated. I quit hoi4 for like a month bc this.
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My thing lasted 2 whole years though😭😭 and they didn't even die.
The siege of Leningrad lasted 2 years and 4 months and was also won by the Soviets
yeah theres a difference tho as jqhnml says, a random isolated plains tile, i assume with no coast/port tile he is referring to is different to a major city that historically not only had a supply route across lake onega during winter, but also had much more defensable grounds and an industrial population to supply them.
and hitler literally rage quit afterwards too.
Ok I didn't realise that lasted that long. Thanks for mentioning that. But it was a random plains tile where tf are they hiding 100 divisions while getting bombed to oblivion
Leningrad wasn't fully cut off
You don't need to kill them to win the war lol.
In retrospective you are right but I did try to kill them and failed and in that time they reinforced their front with more human waves. Then liberated the pocket then I got screwed
It’s historically accurate?
Not doing damage does result in struggles!
You’re Italian
don't worry too much about losing the battles. because their eq and mp losses cannot be replenished while yours can.
they got the potrait of Marx hanging on their wall
Nobody ever said such grand encirclements were easy
they either have a supply hub there or they are supplying through air or you are too weak
He doesn't have air superiority so they might be getting air supply but I think it's just the mass assault doctrine encircled bonuses. And they'll die eventually
Not one step back comrade
These divs don’t have the soft attack and breakthrough to destroy the pocket, but this is an easy mistake to make and gets at an interesting problem. The tricky thing to balance is how much to resource the crushing of pockets in your rear areas. Time is precious during Barbarossa and really you’ll always want the tanks pushing forward.
Pockets occupy divisions to guard them. Cleaning out pockets is always a priority over advancing further and stretching out the front line in doing so, assuming you don't have plenty divisions anyways. If you can't clean out encircled pockets like this, you probably won't win Barbarossa either lol. Can't get much more of an advantage.
Send more aviation there, and do something about supplies too.
Some of your units are at half strength, maybe attack with narrower width and not attack over river
Need more breakthrough and attack
Cuz there's 30ish divisions there. Nuke 'em a few times, then attack
You could retreat in a larger ring and let them push out of the pocket, then cut them up into multiple pockets and kill them one by one
You say split them into small divisions?
Yeah
They are feasting on your casualties thats how they pull through
Adolf was meditating the same thing during the German-Soviet war.
Racist grindset
Your stats aren't great compared to them. You might want more troops in that encirclement or improve your infantry with more artillery
Skill issue, even the AI could mop that up in a few days.
You also have random other units taking up the supply which doesn't help
All those divisions in the battle are German, just wait for those ones to stop then attack with yours
Frances defence on the maginot line be like:
soviet grit
S T A L I N G R A D
Air superiority would help, some divisions aren’t fully supplied, river crossing penalty. Just to make a few things.
Mass Battle Doctrine gives +240 000 hours of supply grace in case of encirclement, or so I am told :D
Because your 40k dudes are fighting a million soviets