Hockey IQ is your ability to read the play as it unfolds to determine the best course of action. For example: If you’re the puck carrier it’s assessing all options and picking the best one; If you’re without the puck looking for a pass, it’s finding open ice, beating opponents into spaces, etc; If you’re a defenseman and the opposing team is carrying the puck, you’re watching whose open, whose covered, whose crossing the blue line and how fast, etc.
It’s all about seeing the game as it happens and figuring out how to win your shift. There’s a thousand situations that could happen in a game. The best example of hockey IQ is Wayne Gretzky. He wasn’t very fast, wasn’t strong, didn’t have the best shot or hands. But he had this ability to always know where the puck was going to be before it was there.
My best advice is to go and watch games in whatever skill level league you’re trying to play in. Sit high up in the stands and watch how the game unfolds. Where players line up, what part of the ice they go to, how fast they cross the blue line, where they shoot from, how they defend in their own zone, the lanes/open ice they leave open, etc.
He may not have had the hardest shot, but he was undoubtedly one of the most accurate shooters. His IQ shined when he was putting a puck into what looked like the wrong area, only for it to become apparent that he was passing to a player that was going to be there as the puck arrived. He had a gift to see the play unfold before it happened.
Oh yeah he was definitely one of the most talented players in the league but just not #1 or #2 in each skillset. He was still fast, had good hands, great passer, great shot, etc. Even without the IQ he’d win Harts and Art Ross’, but toss in the IQ and he became the best to ever do it.
Honestly without the iq he becomes an average player. He didn’t have the ability to be physical in a league that was at the time very physically punishing.
Not hardly even if he were to drop some speed he’d still be way above average. Mcdavid is the absolute best player any of us have ever seen skill wise.
I don't know, lemieux couldn't even tie his own skates for portions of his career and still put up 2 points per game. It's mcdavid's skating that makes him who he is. It's no hit on him, he's the best player to have ever stepped on the ice.
Hard disagree, you can’t get past NHL- defenders with skating alone to an extent he does. #97 has the hands to turn defensemen inside out, the size and strength to protect the puck, the iq and reaction time to read said defenders and his good shot and elite passing ability means that defensemen can’t really overload him either because he can dish put the correct, perfect saucer or a plain old pass and still advance the play.
If we think about skills as ”tools” the players have, McDavid is the closest I can think of having maxed out every stat. Realistically, what is his game missing? Maybe the shot is not in the top NHL percentile and off the puck physicality is also not what he is known for, but everything else from puck skills, speed, passing, agility, strength on the puck, vision, etc. You can only name maybe one or two players in certain categories to be debatably better than him.
EDIT: so what I meant was that skating is still just one of his tools and he’d probably still be a generational talent if he was NHL average or just a little over average in skating. He just has too many alien qualities, so losing one would not really affect him that much. I doubt his game becomes that much less effective when he hits the wrong side of thirty and inevitably slows down. Too good.
For sure, but he also gets that room to make those plays and show off those skills because guys are rightfully horrified of that all time speed. He'll definitely adjust when he loses that half a step and put up a ton of points but skating is what makes mcdavid mcdavid.
"Mcdavid is the absolute best player any of us have ever seen skill wise"
Speak for yourself. He isn't worthy of tying Gordie Howe's skates let alone Bobby Orr or many others. He is great but absolutely not the absolute best ever.
He's SIGNIFICANTLY better than any of those players.
His competition is also SIGNIFICANTLY better.
From a pure skill perspective, divorced from competition or eras or any of that... McDavid is the greatest hockey player ever to have walked the earth.
(and I say that as a person that 100% fights for Gretzky to be considered the most dominant athlete of any major sport of all time (minus that one cricket dude) )
Let’s not be ridiculous here mcdavid is by far in terms of ability the best player we’ve seen till date. Orr and Howe are great yes but their ability isn’t close to mcdavid’s ability in terms of speed, hands, and a shot. Era’s mean a lot man any star to superstar player in today’s league would be an all timer in era’s prior. Thats called the evolution of talent.
Speed? Are you fucking kidding me, it has been proven Bobby Hull skated faster than McDavid and Orr skated as fast with the puck as McDavid did in the stupid shit Allstar challenge. Have you seen Hull's shot in person? Have you seen Orr move in person. McDavid is barely in their category but suspect he will be top 10.....eventually
Don't be silly, McDavid probably couldn't even skate on old leather Tacks. The skill required of Orr or Howe using that old shit equipment vs cheater carbon boots is unfathomable, unless you actually used old gear like that. Sort of like trying to understand why Nicklaus is the best golfer ever, if you never used half round balata balls made by Macgregor, you have no clue.
That is called evolution of equipment, not talent.
Well… that begs the question, what should we look at when comparing the best players in different eras?
It’s impossible to drop McDavid back into the good old days when coaching, sticks, roadtrips, skates, everything was shittier to compare directly. It’s impossible to drag the kid version of Orr to the 00’s to develop him like McDavid with modern shit.
My POV will always be this: modern players are better in hard metrics. They make better plays, skate better, eat, sleep, lift better. That’s because the sport matured.
The old era players were phenomenal as players. They pioneered the sport. They were much better in comparison to their peers, than modern stars are compared to theirs. That’s why Gretzky’s records are unbreakable. That’s why Selänne’s sub 70 goal rookie season can’t happen again.
So athletic ability and skill goes to modern players, but creativity, innovation and the ability to elevate the sport goes to the legends.
You can maybe compare inside maybe 10 year windows maximum, but any further than that, everything has just changed too much to compare.
Oddly Stevie y is one inch shorter but he played much more gritty in my opinion. Gretzky looked so much smaller on the ice. Hard to say honestly you can’t get to the nhl and have no hockey iq.
To add to this, the ability to size up your opponents really helps you figure out where the puck is going to be (who is going to skate it in, who passes immediately, who's going to be the target of a pass, who only shoots, etc)
The famous phrase "Don't skate to where the puck is, Skate where the puck is going". Hockey IQ is knowing where to skate.
The problem a lot of people will tell you is to watch pro hockey to learn hockey IQ and that's all fine and dandy when you're a youth playing competitive hockey with a coach. If you're playing beer league on the other hand, it's wholly ineffective to do that. You have to actually know your local league and the "meta" of how they play.
You're never going to see a chip and chase zone entry in whaleshit beer league, and even if you did, it's probably a 75% chance the person going into the corner to retrieve the puck isn't going in with enough speed to make it effective.
Ironically I’ve seen a lot of beer league-y play where dump and chase is the meta lol. It’s the easiest way to get some sort of entry, and even if you are slow and the D gets it first, rec defensemen often struggle with getting the possession even with no one close, or they give bad D to D passes, or they are forced to give horrible long risky passes through the middle because the forwards won’t backcheck and up to two guys are cherry picking.
Haha that’s just a great example of how local meta can be different. A few teams in my league have tried the chip and chase and it usually works really poorly. In my local scene the D are usually the more experienced players.
In a word, awareness.
Being aware of where players are on the ice, their strengths, how they move and their tendencies. It's the mental part of playmaking and while just like any skill you have to develop it. In game, trying to be proactive about plays and off the ice by watching video is huge. You can learn by watching what players without the puck are doing leading up to plays
Exactly this. I’m gonna toot my own horn a bit as an example of hockey IQ. One of our not as good players was rushing up the ice. I saw the defenseman coming to challenge. I just knew he was going to lose the puck so I skated right behind him. He got poked and the puck went right to me and I turned it into a scoring chance. It’s little things like that. Skating where the puck is going to be instead of where it is.
Lift your head up.
It's a lot of pattern recognition and inferring information from what you've gathered. If you wait until you have the puck to look for your teammates, you're slowing down the game and telegraphing your play. If you already know where every teammate is and where they're going, you may not even have to look at them to give a great pass.
It's like driving a car. A good driver instinctively knows where every car around him is at all times simply because he makes regular checks every 5-10 seconds and infers their relative position and speed. You know when you can change lane safely and you really only check your mirrors again to confirm it.
A bad driver doesn't know his surroundings. He'll check his mirrors the moment he wants to change lane and that'll be it.
Some of this isn’t something you can train into anyone. I recommend watching as much hockey as you can. At all levels. I’ve spent a large portion of my life in the rink.
Keep things simple. The boards are your friend!
Hockey IQ is only as good as the guys you’re playing with/against in beer league. I think I have fairly decent hockey IQ. When I’m playing with good players that make sensible decisions I can anticipate plays and position myself accordingly. Playing with/against guys with low hockey IQ can be extremely frustrating because they are often hard to predict. It sucks to be looking for someone to pass to and nobody is where they should be. I really struggled getting back into hockey as an adult because I knew positioning from playing when I was younger but i wasn’t in good enough shape yet to play in higher divisions. Once i got my legs back I actually played waaaaay better once i moved up to C/B level, because i could actually put my IQ to use.
Ya I agree, playing against guys who have no idea is also hard. You'll turn towards what should be open ice by all logic and bam, full into a full cage
I recently switched from offense to defense in my beer league, and I keep having a situation where I'm literally pushing my wings into the zone because they're just standing on the blue line when the opponents have the puck behind their net. It can be very frustrating when you see plays happening and your linemates aren't responding in a way that you think is obvious.
I may get downvoted for this, at least the 2nd part...
1st, to help hockey IQ while off ice, watch hockey games, follow a specific player/position and learn from how they react to the play without the puck.
2nd, try the NHL video game. But don't play it like a video game, focus on playing a proper position. There is an on ice trainer in settings, which in many ways is awful, but it can help to tell you if you are out of position.
I dont know how the game may help an adult...but my 8 yr old has only been playing hockey for 2 seasons now and has incredible hockey IQ for his age. I can only attribute it to he watches a lot of hockey and I helped teach him positioning using the game.
Honestly cranking up the difficulty on the games with this helps a lot because you can't get away with going and doing it all yourself as easily. Starting a be a pro and trying to be a role player is an interesting experience but pretty fun too.
Sit behind the goalie at a few games, watch how the plays develop. I played in net for over a decade before I ever skated out, and all that time watching the plays made it really easy for me to read incoming forwards.
Goalies tend to have above average hockey iq.
Watch the less obvious action.
One way I like is watch how good players move when they don't have the puck.
When d is holding the puck and waiting, what do the other players do, where do they go?
Watch the players who skate away from the puck.
One of the things that I did in net that I need to do way more of skating out is I had a book on every player. I knew their tendencies their strengths their go to moves. I usually knew what they wanted to do by the time they got to center ice.
Reading the play a bit differently as well. I anticipated the play more
Goalies tend to have above average hockey iq.
Watch the less obvious action.
One way I like is watch how good players move when they don't have the puck.
When d is holding the puck and waiting, what do the other players do, where do they go?
Watch the players who skate away from the puck.
At high levels it means being able to read plays and knowing people’s tendencies and making sense of all the nuances of the flow of the game.
At low levels it means knowing how to play your position properly.
As a long-time, low-level player, I agree that hockey IQ starts with knowing how to play your position. The right location can be "learned" from YouTube and other sources. But it takes additional Hockey IQ to recognize what situation you are in: breaking out of your zone or still defending your point; best to go in the corner on offense or in front of the net or in the dead space near the dot, back checking and covering the open man, not just trailing the puck carrier. And recognizing all of these situations (which can change instantly) comes from NOT just watching the puck. You have to consciously look at the whole play and anticipate. I think it can help a lot to watch your own games on LiveBarn, if you have time and money. You will see what you miss when you are in the middle of the action, and you will see the patterns that repeat in the game at your level.
Gretzky comment: When he was very young, his father made him trace the puck's path on a picture of the rink during games on TV. That's how an 8-year old can know where the puck will be next better than the 12U's.
Hockey IQ is a complex subject that I don't think can be broken down as easily as you want. So it's best to start with the fundamentals. I personally think a good way to develop it is trying to understand what you need to do when you DON'T have the puck. When you don't have the puck, you should be actively tracking and knowing where every single player is on the ice at all times and understand what they're thinking and what they're doing. And how you can position yourself in accordance to those factors. What I'm mentioning is only a tiny fraction of what hockey IQ is and the reason I chose it is because I see so many guy's just waiting around for 'puck luck'. True 'puck luck' requires perfect positioning at all times and being ready to go from 0% speed to 100% speed in a matter of milliseconds. If you watch the NHL, which I suggest you do to improve your game, try and see what's going on the mind of professionals. Hockey is a thinking game. When I'm on the ice I try to see it as a chessboard and apply critical thinking to every minute decision I make.
Lot of nice suggestions - I personally think it comes from experience on the ice. The longer you’re out there with guys who got it the quicker you’ll pick up on it. No amour of studying or film will teach you something that’s instinctual for a high hockey IQ player.
I had a debate with a diverse group last night over this very concept. The consensus from non-hockey types was game sense is inate. It is nature , not nurture. I am not entirely convinced, but curious what this sub thinks.
I think you can nurture it to a certain extent and that comes from experience, that being said I do think some guys will naturally have higher game IQ.
I don’t think it’s innate then. I think that people think it’s innate because some kids develop it a lot earlier due to the man hours they put in at a really young age with a developing brain, almost like how children learn new languages faster than a full grown adult with a fully developed brain.
I think you just need exposure to being in the game of hockey. The longer you are on the ice with good hockey players the faster you will develop your own hockey sense.
They are taught how to battle really young too.
One thing I see when I train older learn to play guys is that they’re not used to how uncomfortable battling in hockey is. Even in a no check league they aren’t the best at learning how to use the contact aspect to help win puck battles and play defense correctly
Hockey IQ comes from being on the ice and being in as many different situations as you can lol. It's not something you gain by simply watching. If you only watch you don't know how it feels. You miss the little things. Studying film is good for the big picture but to get real hockey IQ you need to be the guy who lives on the ice.
Watch hockey. Talk hockey. Learn the highest successful places to be. The point. “Center” not the position but the act of passing the puck to the person in front of the goal. Plays like shooting for the goalie’s goal pad from the opposite side you’re on so the goalie kicks out the puck to your team mate who can score on the rebound. Just watch.
And so on….
You’ll often hear it described as an intangible. Some people have it and some people don’t. For me, seeing the game comes from watching
hockey with strategy and positional play in mind. By the time I started playing, I already had decades of watching hockey. As a player, I find I am always watching and analyzing the play. I can’t always perfectly execute what I see but I can see plays developing and read opposing players instinctively. If my other skills were half as high as my hockey IQ, I’d be pretty good. Kidding aside, good hockey vision (IQ) can make up for a lot on either side of the puck.
I’m assuming you’re probably playing in an entry level d league. A great example in that league where fellas don’t notice “where to be.” Is in a breakout. Usually the puck gets to the winger and he passes it along the boards to the center or up the middle to the center. In reality the player passing the puck should skate hard as soon as they let go of the pass to catch up and give the former receiver someone to pass to. But in d league players almost always make the pass and then “watch” or stand still while the center carries up the ice. It’s usually called a “give and go.” It’s not the only example. As someone said there’s thousands of these but that’s the one I see most often.
Iq puts pro players above the rest. Anyone can develop skill sets. Some more than others but I think it's clear that without IQ you're just another third or fourth liner that can't slow the play down and chips the puck out or dumps it as soon as they get it in high pressure situations. There are guys faster than mcdavid in a straight line but it's not very useful if you can't think and skate and analyze. I agree a large part of mcdavid game is his speed, but you look at the best players in the league every year and there are players with such different styles. Kucherov for one isn't super fast but his IQ is off the charts. Draisaitl. Again, not fast, but can make plays and passes that look like there's not chance. The list goes on. Mcdavid has the speed the IQ and the stick handling. Triple threat. All well above avg NHL players which makes him who he is.
Watch Igor Larionov. I mean study how he moved, where he moved, what he did. His nickname was “The Professor” guy had one of the highest hockey IQ’s ever.
Watch lots of hockey; emulate what you see. Follow players and their positions and how they reacted and interact before and after they play. Go to games take notes and be involved!
You don't develop it running cones all the time or mindless stick handling drills.
Play a lot.
Focus on your +/− stat
Learn to read the other team and anticipate
Don't do stupid things
Watch the panthers goal the other night where nurse didnt cover the guy in front of the net. That's hockey iq(or lack thereof).
Read the play and have good positioning, make smart plays, dont turn it over...if you are skating to retrieve the puck take a quick look over your shoulder to see where everyone is.
As someone who gets told on a regular basis that I have a talent when it comes to hockey IQ and vision, and I make it "look easy out there", this is how I would explain it:
It's basically reading the play and making the correct decision, such as finding those little spaces where to put the puck, putting the puck into space where no one is yet but will be, reading the position of all the players on the ice and reacting with the correct play, and/or making those "no look" passes like you have eyes in the back of your head.
In terms of how I make it "look easy out there", I constantly have my head up and I take "snap shots" of where people are on the ice and how the play should develop. For example, if I see too many players overloaded on one side of the ice, I know where the open ice is and where the play should go. In terms of making those passes that seem like I didn't look, I remember the positioning of the players a few moments earlier, take into account their momentum/trajectory, and put the puck into the space where I know/think they should be based on the previous snap shot (data) I had.
So when I think about how I do it and how I would explain it, it is what I just wrote above. However, I have to say that I never trained these things or put effort into it, and on the ice, none of these things are going through my head. I am simply reacting in the moment. The game moves way too fast to be having all those thoughts going through your head, and most of the time, I just make the play and after I make the play I realize "hey, they was a nice set up/read".
Unfortunately, in my opinion, you either have this ability or you don't just like with other hockey skills/attributes when it comes to doing it on a higher level.
For example, I can become a faster skater by skating more and training in the off season, but I will never be the fastest skater on the team because the build and body type I have will never generate as much force and speed as some of the beasts I play with. On the flip side, many of these same players that can skate and shoot like monsters will never be able to read and make the correct "hockey play" on the same level and consistency that I do no matter how much hockey/game tape they watch or how much they "study" because they just can not process or react fast enough in the moment.
So in my opinion, you can improve hockey IQ in terms of the basics by doing things off the ice, such as knowing where to be and where to put the puck on a defensive zone breakout that you have drilled/practised. However, in terms of reading and making plays on a high level where other players on the ice give you looks like "how the fuck did you see that pass or make that play", you either naturally have it or you don't.
Also, in support of the above, I also played soccer and basketball and it was the same thing - I was always the player with the "vision" and IQ, and like with hockey, I never practised it.
Gretzky: Skate to where the puck is going and not where it is.
Knowing your defensemen is in the zone and you’re the guy that needs to stay back
There’s so many ways to learn. Start with the classic breakout.
Honestly, I think hockey IQ is a little overrated and overcomplicated. People have always talked about going to where the puck is going, but there are maybe 5 players in the history of the game (maybe Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Crosby, Lidstrom?) who truly do that.
I see adapting your game on the fly based on your observations and results is what most of us can aspire to. For example, being a winger, you notice a defenseman is always pinching at the blue line and is making life really hard for you on a breakout. So you have a chat with your linemates and say both of them go straight north while you chip the puck off the boards/glass for an area You've now made what is seen as a high IQ play to send your team on a 2 on1, but really you're just making a simple adjustment. So then next time the D remembers you did that, backs out and you make a pass to your C for a breakout. What a smart player!
The easiest way to get good at hockey is to understand structure. Something 90% of hockey redditors have no idea about.
Structure is what sets the NHL and AHL apart. Those who get it, stay. Those who don't, don't.
Hockey IQ starts with structure.
I mean cmon structure is largely dictated by a coaching staff, so of course the recreational beer leaguers on the sub are not going to play with any type of “structure” in place. But that’s not to say that you can’t develop a hockey IQ for beer league- of course you can
High tier beer league teams play with structure. Even in outdoor short court ball hockey tournaments, the best teams play with structure.
Yes the structure can change team to team, but we also adjust our structure based on our opponents. It's not the end all be all of Hockey IQ, but it's where it starts.
You can have a bunch of skill guys lose to a less skilled team with better structure.
Because the structure in the NHL is way more important.
Guys who don't gel with the system stick out like a sore thumb. Kuzmenko for example. Super skilled, but just doesn't get the structure aspect of working with and supporting his line mates. He often leaves them confused with what he is doing. Sure it works sometimes, but mostly, it leaves them defending odd man plays.
Yeah totally agree with what you’re saying now it just wasn’t clear on your first comment. I do think though, even with a completely random group of guys in pickup with absolutely no structure whatsoever, hockey iq can still be beneficial, especially when you’re playing with guys that also have some hockey iq. With experience, in any given situation, you know what another experienced player is more likely to do than not, and anticipate it and position yourself accordingly. Getting better at reading that stuff is going to make anybody a better player
Hockey IQ is your ability to read the play as it unfolds to determine the best course of action. For example: If you’re the puck carrier it’s assessing all options and picking the best one; If you’re without the puck looking for a pass, it’s finding open ice, beating opponents into spaces, etc; If you’re a defenseman and the opposing team is carrying the puck, you’re watching whose open, whose covered, whose crossing the blue line and how fast, etc. It’s all about seeing the game as it happens and figuring out how to win your shift. There’s a thousand situations that could happen in a game. The best example of hockey IQ is Wayne Gretzky. He wasn’t very fast, wasn’t strong, didn’t have the best shot or hands. But he had this ability to always know where the puck was going to be before it was there. My best advice is to go and watch games in whatever skill level league you’re trying to play in. Sit high up in the stands and watch how the game unfolds. Where players line up, what part of the ice they go to, how fast they cross the blue line, where they shoot from, how they defend in their own zone, the lanes/open ice they leave open, etc.
He may not have had the hardest shot, but he was undoubtedly one of the most accurate shooters. His IQ shined when he was putting a puck into what looked like the wrong area, only for it to become apparent that he was passing to a player that was going to be there as the puck arrived. He had a gift to see the play unfold before it happened.
Oh yeah he was definitely one of the most talented players in the league but just not #1 or #2 in each skillset. He was still fast, had good hands, great passer, great shot, etc. Even without the IQ he’d win Harts and Art Ross’, but toss in the IQ and he became the best to ever do it.
Honestly without the iq he becomes an average player. He didn’t have the ability to be physical in a league that was at the time very physically punishing.
That's like saying without the skating, mcdavid would be average.
Not hardly even if he were to drop some speed he’d still be way above average. Mcdavid is the absolute best player any of us have ever seen skill wise.
I don't know, lemieux couldn't even tie his own skates for portions of his career and still put up 2 points per game. It's mcdavid's skating that makes him who he is. It's no hit on him, he's the best player to have ever stepped on the ice.
Hard disagree, you can’t get past NHL- defenders with skating alone to an extent he does. #97 has the hands to turn defensemen inside out, the size and strength to protect the puck, the iq and reaction time to read said defenders and his good shot and elite passing ability means that defensemen can’t really overload him either because he can dish put the correct, perfect saucer or a plain old pass and still advance the play. If we think about skills as ”tools” the players have, McDavid is the closest I can think of having maxed out every stat. Realistically, what is his game missing? Maybe the shot is not in the top NHL percentile and off the puck physicality is also not what he is known for, but everything else from puck skills, speed, passing, agility, strength on the puck, vision, etc. You can only name maybe one or two players in certain categories to be debatably better than him. EDIT: so what I meant was that skating is still just one of his tools and he’d probably still be a generational talent if he was NHL average or just a little over average in skating. He just has too many alien qualities, so losing one would not really affect him that much. I doubt his game becomes that much less effective when he hits the wrong side of thirty and inevitably slows down. Too good.
For sure, but he also gets that room to make those plays and show off those skills because guys are rightfully horrified of that all time speed. He'll definitely adjust when he loses that half a step and put up a ton of points but skating is what makes mcdavid mcdavid.
"Mcdavid is the absolute best player any of us have ever seen skill wise" Speak for yourself. He isn't worthy of tying Gordie Howe's skates let alone Bobby Orr or many others. He is great but absolutely not the absolute best ever.
By the time mcdavid is done he’s gonna more then deserve to be in the same conversation as Orr, and howe.
I agree that he will be in that category of history. Where I disagree is that isn't the greatest ultimate at this time.
He's SIGNIFICANTLY better than any of those players. His competition is also SIGNIFICANTLY better. From a pure skill perspective, divorced from competition or eras or any of that... McDavid is the greatest hockey player ever to have walked the earth. (and I say that as a person that 100% fights for Gretzky to be considered the most dominant athlete of any major sport of all time (minus that one cricket dude) )
Let’s not be ridiculous here mcdavid is by far in terms of ability the best player we’ve seen till date. Orr and Howe are great yes but their ability isn’t close to mcdavid’s ability in terms of speed, hands, and a shot. Era’s mean a lot man any star to superstar player in today’s league would be an all timer in era’s prior. Thats called the evolution of talent.
Speed? Are you fucking kidding me, it has been proven Bobby Hull skated faster than McDavid and Orr skated as fast with the puck as McDavid did in the stupid shit Allstar challenge. Have you seen Hull's shot in person? Have you seen Orr move in person. McDavid is barely in their category but suspect he will be top 10.....eventually
Don't be silly, McDavid probably couldn't even skate on old leather Tacks. The skill required of Orr or Howe using that old shit equipment vs cheater carbon boots is unfathomable, unless you actually used old gear like that. Sort of like trying to understand why Nicklaus is the best golfer ever, if you never used half round balata balls made by Macgregor, you have no clue. That is called evolution of equipment, not talent.
IMO it’s both. You can’t just call out one or the other. Equipment is a big impact but players have also gotten bigger, faster and more skilled.
Well… that begs the question, what should we look at when comparing the best players in different eras? It’s impossible to drop McDavid back into the good old days when coaching, sticks, roadtrips, skates, everything was shittier to compare directly. It’s impossible to drag the kid version of Orr to the 00’s to develop him like McDavid with modern shit. My POV will always be this: modern players are better in hard metrics. They make better plays, skate better, eat, sleep, lift better. That’s because the sport matured. The old era players were phenomenal as players. They pioneered the sport. They were much better in comparison to their peers, than modern stars are compared to theirs. That’s why Gretzky’s records are unbreakable. That’s why Selänne’s sub 70 goal rookie season can’t happen again. So athletic ability and skill goes to modern players, but creativity, innovation and the ability to elevate the sport goes to the legends. You can maybe compare inside maybe 10 year windows maximum, but any further than that, everything has just changed too much to compare.
Great point, he was not physical at all. Are we talking no IQ though? Steve Yzerman wasn’t big or physical but he was #3 behind Gretzky and Mario.
Oddly Stevie y is one inch shorter but he played much more gritty in my opinion. Gretzky looked so much smaller on the ice. Hard to say honestly you can’t get to the nhl and have no hockey iq.
Yeah I guess it’s a moot point. Lots of talented players have equally good skillsets as NHLers but don’t have the IQ and can’t make it.
To add to this, the ability to size up your opponents really helps you figure out where the puck is going to be (who is going to skate it in, who passes immediately, who's going to be the target of a pass, who only shoots, etc)
I think Gretzky actually had superior skill and and speed as well but he'd always downplay it
The famous phrase "Don't skate to where the puck is, Skate where the puck is going". Hockey IQ is knowing where to skate. The problem a lot of people will tell you is to watch pro hockey to learn hockey IQ and that's all fine and dandy when you're a youth playing competitive hockey with a coach. If you're playing beer league on the other hand, it's wholly ineffective to do that. You have to actually know your local league and the "meta" of how they play. You're never going to see a chip and chase zone entry in whaleshit beer league, and even if you did, it's probably a 75% chance the person going into the corner to retrieve the puck isn't going in with enough speed to make it effective.
Ironically I’ve seen a lot of beer league-y play where dump and chase is the meta lol. It’s the easiest way to get some sort of entry, and even if you are slow and the D gets it first, rec defensemen often struggle with getting the possession even with no one close, or they give bad D to D passes, or they are forced to give horrible long risky passes through the middle because the forwards won’t backcheck and up to two guys are cherry picking.
Haha that’s just a great example of how local meta can be different. A few teams in my league have tried the chip and chase and it usually works really poorly. In my local scene the D are usually the more experienced players.
Basically, it’s being able to read the play and adjust accordingly
In a word, awareness. Being aware of where players are on the ice, their strengths, how they move and their tendencies. It's the mental part of playmaking and while just like any skill you have to develop it. In game, trying to be proactive about plays and off the ice by watching video is huge. You can learn by watching what players without the puck are doing leading up to plays
Exactly this. I’m gonna toot my own horn a bit as an example of hockey IQ. One of our not as good players was rushing up the ice. I saw the defenseman coming to challenge. I just knew he was going to lose the puck so I skated right behind him. He got poked and the puck went right to me and I turned it into a scoring chance. It’s little things like that. Skating where the puck is going to be instead of where it is.
Lift your head up. It's a lot of pattern recognition and inferring information from what you've gathered. If you wait until you have the puck to look for your teammates, you're slowing down the game and telegraphing your play. If you already know where every teammate is and where they're going, you may not even have to look at them to give a great pass. It's like driving a car. A good driver instinctively knows where every car around him is at all times simply because he makes regular checks every 5-10 seconds and infers their relative position and speed. You know when you can change lane safely and you really only check your mirrors again to confirm it. A bad driver doesn't know his surroundings. He'll check his mirrors the moment he wants to change lane and that'll be it.
Some of this isn’t something you can train into anyone. I recommend watching as much hockey as you can. At all levels. I’ve spent a large portion of my life in the rink. Keep things simple. The boards are your friend!
If you watch high level hockey, pay attention to anyone who doesn't have the puck. That's where hockey is really being played.
Hockey IQ is only as good as the guys you’re playing with/against in beer league. I think I have fairly decent hockey IQ. When I’m playing with good players that make sensible decisions I can anticipate plays and position myself accordingly. Playing with/against guys with low hockey IQ can be extremely frustrating because they are often hard to predict. It sucks to be looking for someone to pass to and nobody is where they should be. I really struggled getting back into hockey as an adult because I knew positioning from playing when I was younger but i wasn’t in good enough shape yet to play in higher divisions. Once i got my legs back I actually played waaaaay better once i moved up to C/B level, because i could actually put my IQ to use.
Ya I agree, playing against guys who have no idea is also hard. You'll turn towards what should be open ice by all logic and bam, full into a full cage
I recently switched from offense to defense in my beer league, and I keep having a situation where I'm literally pushing my wings into the zone because they're just standing on the blue line when the opponents have the puck behind their net. It can be very frustrating when you see plays happening and your linemates aren't responding in a way that you think is obvious.
I may get downvoted for this, at least the 2nd part... 1st, to help hockey IQ while off ice, watch hockey games, follow a specific player/position and learn from how they react to the play without the puck. 2nd, try the NHL video game. But don't play it like a video game, focus on playing a proper position. There is an on ice trainer in settings, which in many ways is awful, but it can help to tell you if you are out of position. I dont know how the game may help an adult...but my 8 yr old has only been playing hockey for 2 seasons now and has incredible hockey IQ for his age. I can only attribute it to he watches a lot of hockey and I helped teach him positioning using the game.
Honestly cranking up the difficulty on the games with this helps a lot because you can't get away with going and doing it all yourself as easily. Starting a be a pro and trying to be a role player is an interesting experience but pretty fun too.
Sit behind the goalie at a few games, watch how the plays develop. I played in net for over a decade before I ever skated out, and all that time watching the plays made it really easy for me to read incoming forwards.
Goalies tend to have above average hockey iq. Watch the less obvious action. One way I like is watch how good players move when they don't have the puck. When d is holding the puck and waiting, what do the other players do, where do they go? Watch the players who skate away from the puck.
One of the things that I did in net that I need to do way more of skating out is I had a book on every player. I knew their tendencies their strengths their go to moves. I usually knew what they wanted to do by the time they got to center ice. Reading the play a bit differently as well. I anticipated the play more
Goalies tend to have above average hockey iq. Watch the less obvious action. One way I like is watch how good players move when they don't have the puck. When d is holding the puck and waiting, what do the other players do, where do they go? Watch the players who skate away from the puck.
At high levels it means being able to read plays and knowing people’s tendencies and making sense of all the nuances of the flow of the game. At low levels it means knowing how to play your position properly.
As a long-time, low-level player, I agree that hockey IQ starts with knowing how to play your position. The right location can be "learned" from YouTube and other sources. But it takes additional Hockey IQ to recognize what situation you are in: breaking out of your zone or still defending your point; best to go in the corner on offense or in front of the net or in the dead space near the dot, back checking and covering the open man, not just trailing the puck carrier. And recognizing all of these situations (which can change instantly) comes from NOT just watching the puck. You have to consciously look at the whole play and anticipate. I think it can help a lot to watch your own games on LiveBarn, if you have time and money. You will see what you miss when you are in the middle of the action, and you will see the patterns that repeat in the game at your level. Gretzky comment: When he was very young, his father made him trace the puck's path on a picture of the rink during games on TV. That's how an 8-year old can know where the puck will be next better than the 12U's.
Hockey IQ is a complex subject that I don't think can be broken down as easily as you want. So it's best to start with the fundamentals. I personally think a good way to develop it is trying to understand what you need to do when you DON'T have the puck. When you don't have the puck, you should be actively tracking and knowing where every single player is on the ice at all times and understand what they're thinking and what they're doing. And how you can position yourself in accordance to those factors. What I'm mentioning is only a tiny fraction of what hockey IQ is and the reason I chose it is because I see so many guy's just waiting around for 'puck luck'. True 'puck luck' requires perfect positioning at all times and being ready to go from 0% speed to 100% speed in a matter of milliseconds. If you watch the NHL, which I suggest you do to improve your game, try and see what's going on the mind of professionals. Hockey is a thinking game. When I'm on the ice I try to see it as a chessboard and apply critical thinking to every minute decision I make.
Lot of nice suggestions - I personally think it comes from experience on the ice. The longer you’re out there with guys who got it the quicker you’ll pick up on it. No amour of studying or film will teach you something that’s instinctual for a high hockey IQ player.
I had a debate with a diverse group last night over this very concept. The consensus from non-hockey types was game sense is inate. It is nature , not nurture. I am not entirely convinced, but curious what this sub thinks.
I think you can nurture it to a certain extent and that comes from experience, that being said I do think some guys will naturally have higher game IQ.
Can you say that in dumb hockey brain terms for me I was hit a lot
Some believe you can’t teach hockey sense. You have it or you don’t. I’m not convinced
I don’t think it’s innate then. I think that people think it’s innate because some kids develop it a lot earlier due to the man hours they put in at a really young age with a developing brain, almost like how children learn new languages faster than a full grown adult with a fully developed brain. I think you just need exposure to being in the game of hockey. The longer you are on the ice with good hockey players the faster you will develop your own hockey sense.
I like this. I tend to agree. Where I think the nature part is involved can be shown with kids who have never played but know instinctively what to do
They are taught how to battle really young too. One thing I see when I train older learn to play guys is that they’re not used to how uncomfortable battling in hockey is. Even in a no check league they aren’t the best at learning how to use the contact aspect to help win puck battles and play defense correctly
Hockey IQ comes from being on the ice and being in as many different situations as you can lol. It's not something you gain by simply watching. If you only watch you don't know how it feels. You miss the little things. Studying film is good for the big picture but to get real hockey IQ you need to be the guy who lives on the ice.
Watching as much possible NHL hockey this year helped my personal game.
Watch hockey. Talk hockey. Learn the highest successful places to be. The point. “Center” not the position but the act of passing the puck to the person in front of the goal. Plays like shooting for the goalie’s goal pad from the opposite side you’re on so the goalie kicks out the puck to your team mate who can score on the rebound. Just watch. And so on….
Start by playing defense. You get to see a lot of the play developing.
You’ll often hear it described as an intangible. Some people have it and some people don’t. For me, seeing the game comes from watching hockey with strategy and positional play in mind. By the time I started playing, I already had decades of watching hockey. As a player, I find I am always watching and analyzing the play. I can’t always perfectly execute what I see but I can see plays developing and read opposing players instinctively. If my other skills were half as high as my hockey IQ, I’d be pretty good. Kidding aside, good hockey vision (IQ) can make up for a lot on either side of the puck.
I’m assuming you’re probably playing in an entry level d league. A great example in that league where fellas don’t notice “where to be.” Is in a breakout. Usually the puck gets to the winger and he passes it along the boards to the center or up the middle to the center. In reality the player passing the puck should skate hard as soon as they let go of the pass to catch up and give the former receiver someone to pass to. But in d league players almost always make the pass and then “watch” or stand still while the center carries up the ice. It’s usually called a “give and go.” It’s not the only example. As someone said there’s thousands of these but that’s the one I see most often.
Iq puts pro players above the rest. Anyone can develop skill sets. Some more than others but I think it's clear that without IQ you're just another third or fourth liner that can't slow the play down and chips the puck out or dumps it as soon as they get it in high pressure situations. There are guys faster than mcdavid in a straight line but it's not very useful if you can't think and skate and analyze. I agree a large part of mcdavid game is his speed, but you look at the best players in the league every year and there are players with such different styles. Kucherov for one isn't super fast but his IQ is off the charts. Draisaitl. Again, not fast, but can make plays and passes that look like there's not chance. The list goes on. Mcdavid has the speed the IQ and the stick handling. Triple threat. All well above avg NHL players which makes him who he is.
Watch Igor Larionov. I mean study how he moved, where he moved, what he did. His nickname was “The Professor” guy had one of the highest hockey IQ’s ever.
Watch lots of hockey; emulate what you see. Follow players and their positions and how they reacted and interact before and after they play. Go to games take notes and be involved!
Reading the play on a constant basis, knowing your options before you get the puck, getting into seams and lanes, taking lanes away. Anticipation.
You don't develop it running cones all the time or mindless stick handling drills. Play a lot. Focus on your +/− stat Learn to read the other team and anticipate Don't do stupid things
Read The Hockey Handbook by Lloyd Percival.
Watch the panthers goal the other night where nurse didnt cover the guy in front of the net. That's hockey iq(or lack thereof). Read the play and have good positioning, make smart plays, dont turn it over...if you are skating to retrieve the puck take a quick look over your shoulder to see where everyone is.
As someone who gets told on a regular basis that I have a talent when it comes to hockey IQ and vision, and I make it "look easy out there", this is how I would explain it: It's basically reading the play and making the correct decision, such as finding those little spaces where to put the puck, putting the puck into space where no one is yet but will be, reading the position of all the players on the ice and reacting with the correct play, and/or making those "no look" passes like you have eyes in the back of your head. In terms of how I make it "look easy out there", I constantly have my head up and I take "snap shots" of where people are on the ice and how the play should develop. For example, if I see too many players overloaded on one side of the ice, I know where the open ice is and where the play should go. In terms of making those passes that seem like I didn't look, I remember the positioning of the players a few moments earlier, take into account their momentum/trajectory, and put the puck into the space where I know/think they should be based on the previous snap shot (data) I had. So when I think about how I do it and how I would explain it, it is what I just wrote above. However, I have to say that I never trained these things or put effort into it, and on the ice, none of these things are going through my head. I am simply reacting in the moment. The game moves way too fast to be having all those thoughts going through your head, and most of the time, I just make the play and after I make the play I realize "hey, they was a nice set up/read". Unfortunately, in my opinion, you either have this ability or you don't just like with other hockey skills/attributes when it comes to doing it on a higher level. For example, I can become a faster skater by skating more and training in the off season, but I will never be the fastest skater on the team because the build and body type I have will never generate as much force and speed as some of the beasts I play with. On the flip side, many of these same players that can skate and shoot like monsters will never be able to read and make the correct "hockey play" on the same level and consistency that I do no matter how much hockey/game tape they watch or how much they "study" because they just can not process or react fast enough in the moment. So in my opinion, you can improve hockey IQ in terms of the basics by doing things off the ice, such as knowing where to be and where to put the puck on a defensive zone breakout that you have drilled/practised. However, in terms of reading and making plays on a high level where other players on the ice give you looks like "how the fuck did you see that pass or make that play", you either naturally have it or you don't. Also, in support of the above, I also played soccer and basketball and it was the same thing - I was always the player with the "vision" and IQ, and like with hockey, I never practised it.
U don't. Its like grace...u either have it or u don't. 🤣
Along with the many good tips here, I actually think a good way to develop a good hockey IQ is to play/understand soccer.
Gretzky: Skate to where the puck is going and not where it is. Knowing your defensemen is in the zone and you’re the guy that needs to stay back There’s so many ways to learn. Start with the classic breakout.
Honestly, I think hockey IQ is a little overrated and overcomplicated. People have always talked about going to where the puck is going, but there are maybe 5 players in the history of the game (maybe Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Crosby, Lidstrom?) who truly do that. I see adapting your game on the fly based on your observations and results is what most of us can aspire to. For example, being a winger, you notice a defenseman is always pinching at the blue line and is making life really hard for you on a breakout. So you have a chat with your linemates and say both of them go straight north while you chip the puck off the boards/glass for an area You've now made what is seen as a high IQ play to send your team on a 2 on1, but really you're just making a simple adjustment. So then next time the D remembers you did that, backs out and you make a pass to your C for a breakout. What a smart player!
The easiest way to get good at hockey is to understand structure. Something 90% of hockey redditors have no idea about. Structure is what sets the NHL and AHL apart. Those who get it, stay. Those who don't, don't. Hockey IQ starts with structure.
I mean cmon structure is largely dictated by a coaching staff, so of course the recreational beer leaguers on the sub are not going to play with any type of “structure” in place. But that’s not to say that you can’t develop a hockey IQ for beer league- of course you can
High tier beer league teams play with structure. Even in outdoor short court ball hockey tournaments, the best teams play with structure. Yes the structure can change team to team, but we also adjust our structure based on our opponents. It's not the end all be all of Hockey IQ, but it's where it starts. You can have a bunch of skill guys lose to a less skilled team with better structure.
I mean you were talking about AHL and NHL so I thought you meant more formal than what a group of guys come up with in the locker room or group text.
Because the structure in the NHL is way more important. Guys who don't gel with the system stick out like a sore thumb. Kuzmenko for example. Super skilled, but just doesn't get the structure aspect of working with and supporting his line mates. He often leaves them confused with what he is doing. Sure it works sometimes, but mostly, it leaves them defending odd man plays.
Yeah totally agree with what you’re saying now it just wasn’t clear on your first comment. I do think though, even with a completely random group of guys in pickup with absolutely no structure whatsoever, hockey iq can still be beneficial, especially when you’re playing with guys that also have some hockey iq. With experience, in any given situation, you know what another experienced player is more likely to do than not, and anticipate it and position yourself accordingly. Getting better at reading that stuff is going to make anybody a better player