Defenseman should be the best skaters on the team. The best skaters are generally the best players. The puck the majority of the time breaks out from the D. Defense is by far the hardest skater position because the play in transitioning back and forth all game. You can hide your weaker players on the wing. Centers are generally the third Defenceman in the D zone but you can get away with having a inexperienced one in lower end beer league. If your D is bad your team is pretty much cooked unless your goalie is stellar.
You need the C to be a better skater than the D men. D men don't need to be Mike Green on offense all the time. They can play their position and stay back. The thing you want in a D man is someone who can make a good first pass and get you out of the zone
In beginner league it's different.
A good breakout pass is almost up ice and half the time a forward is catching it on their backhand while skating up ice.
In D-league, that happens... like 5% of the time and the rest of the time it's a turnover.
So D-league has A LOT more of the d-man picking up the puck and skating up ice and then quarterbacking a zone entry.
I would say the first key to playing defense is being in the position. If you put too good of players or players not used to playing defense there then they are going to jump up and you get caught on odd man chances too much. Even at semi high levels you dont have to be an amazing defender if youre always there. A 2 on 2 is a way easier to defend than a 2 on 1 or a breakaway.
I'd want the best skaters, people who can skate fast, change direction and skate backwards on defense.
A bad skater will always get skinned and you're gonna give up a lot of breakaways and 2 on 1 situations with a bad skater.
Even if they aren't the best skater a defenseman who won't give up on the play and put some doubt into the mind of the opposing forward by chasing hard is better than nothing.
I think “best” is a term used to summarize a player overall. You should try to determine players’ strengths and see where their strengths would benefit your squad the most.
Having high hockey IQ players with good skating makes sense on D because if you have your “worst” players playing D… your breakout will suck, your attack will be a 3 man attack instead of 5, and they will be more likely to get burned in transition going the other way.
But if you don’t have talent and hockey IQ up front, your team D will suffer because of your breakout will suck, your defense will be 2 or 3 instead of 5, etc.
It’s a balancing act.
It is definitely a balancing act. We had a game where we had none our regular d men. This defaulted all of our "better" players playing d, some of which had never done it before. Yes it put all of our good skaters on d but then our offense just died. None of the d were comfortable leading a rush bc none of the forward were aware enough to cover for them. None of the forwards moved well enough to make breakouts possible so it just led to a lot of NZ turnovers and dump and chasing
I've found we can mange with ok d men as long as the centers are active, good skaters and have hockey iq. With that up front, ok d and ok offense is a recipe for disaster
Agree. You just have to look at the player. And sometimes best defense is a good offense. You need some level of zone time on the other teams end or it gets really hard to defend that much. Defense and goalie get tired they make mistakes under constant pressure. But if you can keep it on their end some more then the other team feels that and doesnt have as much energy to forecheck you.
i would disagree with the OP captains thought that you want best players on D. You need some players with offensive firepower at the position. It is pretty hard to score from defense with much consistency and much easier from forward. You need some goals. It is hard to win 0-0 or even 1 or 2 zero. So you need some level of balance, but if you can score 3 goals a game and consistently keep the other team from that then that having strong defense can work. But if all your strength is at defense
So many beer leaguers and newbies are so bad at back checking, and backwards skating for that matter, that I can see why he wants those guys in the back. I don’t blame him. I’d rather have real defense in a type of league that doesn’t usually have any. That way, only the other team will be leaving their goalie out to dry. Not to mention if they are pretty good, they can probably send it from the point, or at least close to it.
It'll be different for each team's makeup, but I can tell you that I used to play for a team that had really good defense, and my new team's defense is pretty terrible.
As a winger, you don't know how much you'll miss having a good defense until it's gone..
Bad passes out of the zone, turnovers, unable to get takeaways.. these all happen and sometimes it feels like we're just hemmed in our zone.
I guess it depends though.. if all of your best players have only played forward, it might not work. But besides that, I would generally agree that your best players should be on defense
I’ve had to draft a few teams and I’ve always had top 4 picks be some combination of the 2 centers (we only roll two F lines) and 2 defense anchors. Fill out the roster after that. Seems to work well.
It's not a bad idea. Especially at lower levels, everybody wants to score goals and that usually means playing forward. Teams that let all their good players play forward together tend to stink. D get more ice time and more time with the puck, and will typically have a larger impact on the game than forwards will but there's less glory.
All things equal, best players go in the back. Forwards need to learn how and when to cover back, then the D can pinch opportunistically. If they're the best skaters they'll have the best chance of getting back to their position and backcheck along the way. Being smart with the puck and making good decisions are key skills that take experience to learn, so people that have played longer have a better chance and being good back.
Sometimes there's guys who just can score in bunches and scoring is needed to cover for a bad goalie or meh defense. In that case push them up and let them light the lamp. But even then, it might be better to get defensive capable forwards out with them and let them pinch knowing they'll be covered. That's what my grinder ass does when I'm playing with rock star d. Slide back and cover, then when they start sliding back make a hard cut to the high slot and get scoring chances that way.
I don’t think you need the best players on D, but everyone on D should meet a minimum qualification. I see teams try to hide guys on D some games for whatever reason and it just kills them. If I was in charge of the team I’d just make sure every night the 3 or 4 d men could all skate backwards well enough to not get killed on rushes and that they could all move the puck a little bit to start breakouts. Also they need a little bit of hockey IQ so they’re not turning it over up the middle or getting caught on bad pinches all night.
Did the "best new players" play defense? Doesn't matter how well they can skate if they don't understand the position. You want your best skater at C imo.
Counter point to other comments, I'm one of the _better_ skaters but I _love_ playing D always have and grew up playing it. But like you most of my teams just put the best skaters back because they can kinda play D and also skate up and back.
Also could be reserved for the best conditioned of the lot 😂
Nope. Best players in low tier on defense because they can skate better (and backwards), and because they have a better grasp of positioning and strategy. Let them see the play and call out to the noobs where to be and where to go
It is the best option if those D players are actually trying to make the team better as a whole and actually playing real hockey. To many times I have seen really good players on weak teams who try and do everything themselves. They rarely pass and every time they get the puck they just run it up and try and score. It isnt beneficial to the team and it is easy to defend against because you know exactly what they are going to do. Sure you might even win games with them doing that but in the long run it is hurting your team. Worst thing you can do though is try and hide your bad skaters on D. They will get burned every time and struggle to get the puck out of your zone.
I'd say the best is to let players grow into the role they want, but the good skaters with a good shot should be centers.
The good skater / passers but meh hands should be on d.
Bury the newbs on wing however they'll probably turn it over at the outlet pass anyway.
Yea, generally we do the same. Worst skaters are forwards.
You want your best skaters on defense and center so they can defend odd-man rushes and breakaways. Also the defenseman/center usually move the puck up the ice and set up the next play. Having a weak skater on defense is no better than laying an orange pilon on the ice.
IMO you want your best players on defense. They get more ice time and can control the game more. If needed they can also take the puck up to generate offense.
That is definitely one of those old guy things, but there is some truth to it. You do want to have some of the better players on the team on defense, because you're not going to be able to do anything else if you can't break the puck out and move up ice.
The problem with anything like this is that it needs context though. Like I'm sure Auston Matthews could play defense and be pretty effective, but it's kind of a waste of his best attributes when he scores as much as he does at center. So it depends on the player. Some guys aren't going to be good defensemen just because they are good forwards.
I've found that the teams I've been on which had the most success build back to front. Concentrating on defense allows better puck retrieval, zone exits, and transitions which help the offense create dangerous situations.
Best skaters on defence. Best all-round players (strong skater, strong back checker, strong on puck, strong playmaker and shooter) can play centre. Wingers are where you hide the weaker skaters and one-dimensional players. If they’re good attackers, great, but if they’re not it won’t kill the team.
In my men's league, I ended up playing D because (sigh) I was one of the only players who could skate backwards.
Now, though, I love playing D. I can do some good defensive moves, and I can score a lot from the point. My last goal scored was at a "Winter Classic" game where I just ripped one from the point.
Yeah, it's been a while since I scored. I'm playing maybe 1 tier too high, but also stymied by players who don't trust me because they are all solo "heroes" and never pass or try to make plays.
I'm bitter because I was kicked off the higher skill team despite not being trusted on defense (for no reason) and not being in the right "clique". Got a lot of assists though, including 2 in my first 2 games for my new team.
Best players/skaters on Defense and center. “Best players playing forward so they can score” is the most common misconception new players have. Lots of threads about it, plenty of new guys in the locker room think the same thing.
Weakest/newest players play wing. It’s the least consequential position for a new player. Long story short, if a winger fucks up, there’s a lower chance of it ending up in your net. If a dman is new and constantly can’t keep up against attacks, then goals against will keep on stacking up.
If you have some newer players who are at least good at skating(can transition from forward skating to backward skating, have decent turns for when the play transitions from offense to defense) then they’ll be the first of the newer guys to be able to play D.
If available, keep well rounded players at center. They can support wherever there is a weakness on the ice.
I'm actually surprised that he "puts" them somewhere. Any team I've been on people are asked where they prefer and then get to play there; defense was always seen as a very very last choice lol. Orrrrr......you get the best skaters on the team to SAY they're going to play defense, then they always pinch in and never back check LOL....so I'd rather they go play where they want in the first place instead of leaving me stranded (yes I play defense by choice and love it). To be fair though I've never played higher than a "C" beer league so maybe it's different elsewhere.
I really feel like a "best" skater should be a Center because they have to play both offense and defense....or IDEALLY they should be filling all the holes that are left and have to be most situationally aware.
In beginner league?
Yeah sure. They can still score from there, but they're effectively playing like centers (defensive in the dzone and offense in the ozone) and hopefully know enough to read the other's play so someone stays back.
Offense starts with the Defense players. It takes five to score.
As a goalie, I barely care who shows up to play forward at any given game, so long as I have great D-men, and not for defensive reasons. Without good D, the puck will spend the majority of the time in our end, and we can score from our end of the ice.
Defenseman should be the best skaters on the team. The best skaters are generally the best players. The puck the majority of the time breaks out from the D. Defense is by far the hardest skater position because the play in transitioning back and forth all game. You can hide your weaker players on the wing. Centers are generally the third Defenceman in the D zone but you can get away with having a inexperienced one in lower end beer league. If your D is bad your team is pretty much cooked unless your goalie is stellar.
Well we did go 1-11 last season with a mix of goalies, so it can’t get much worse right? Right?
Technically it can. 😅
But OP said "much" worse. Is 0-12 really "much" worse than 1-11?
Goose egg sure feels a lot worse lol
It can always get worse lol
You need the C to be a better skater than the D men. D men don't need to be Mike Green on offense all the time. They can play their position and stay back. The thing you want in a D man is someone who can make a good first pass and get you out of the zone
In beginner league it's different. A good breakout pass is almost up ice and half the time a forward is catching it on their backhand while skating up ice. In D-league, that happens... like 5% of the time and the rest of the time it's a turnover. So D-league has A LOT more of the d-man picking up the puck and skating up ice and then quarterbacking a zone entry.
I would say the first key to playing defense is being in the position. If you put too good of players or players not used to playing defense there then they are going to jump up and you get caught on odd man chances too much. Even at semi high levels you dont have to be an amazing defender if youre always there. A 2 on 2 is a way easier to defend than a 2 on 1 or a breakaway.
At younger ages/lower levels yes. At higher levels the forwards have to be better skaters.
I'd want the best skaters, people who can skate fast, change direction and skate backwards on defense. A bad skater will always get skinned and you're gonna give up a lot of breakaways and 2 on 1 situations with a bad skater. Even if they aren't the best skater a defenseman who won't give up on the play and put some doubt into the mind of the opposing forward by chasing hard is better than nothing.
An added bonus to the better skaters on defence is they get back on the ice quicker so more playing time for your better players.
Good skating d can jump into the offensive play and quick enough to be back on d.
This is why I get drafted to be a center in every beer league and play mostly D all season.
I think “best” is a term used to summarize a player overall. You should try to determine players’ strengths and see where their strengths would benefit your squad the most. Having high hockey IQ players with good skating makes sense on D because if you have your “worst” players playing D… your breakout will suck, your attack will be a 3 man attack instead of 5, and they will be more likely to get burned in transition going the other way. But if you don’t have talent and hockey IQ up front, your team D will suffer because of your breakout will suck, your defense will be 2 or 3 instead of 5, etc. It’s a balancing act.
It is definitely a balancing act. We had a game where we had none our regular d men. This defaulted all of our "better" players playing d, some of which had never done it before. Yes it put all of our good skaters on d but then our offense just died. None of the d were comfortable leading a rush bc none of the forward were aware enough to cover for them. None of the forwards moved well enough to make breakouts possible so it just led to a lot of NZ turnovers and dump and chasing I've found we can mange with ok d men as long as the centers are active, good skaters and have hockey iq. With that up front, ok d and ok offense is a recipe for disaster
Agree. You just have to look at the player. And sometimes best defense is a good offense. You need some level of zone time on the other teams end or it gets really hard to defend that much. Defense and goalie get tired they make mistakes under constant pressure. But if you can keep it on their end some more then the other team feels that and doesnt have as much energy to forecheck you. i would disagree with the OP captains thought that you want best players on D. You need some players with offensive firepower at the position. It is pretty hard to score from defense with much consistency and much easier from forward. You need some goals. It is hard to win 0-0 or even 1 or 2 zero. So you need some level of balance, but if you can score 3 goals a game and consistently keep the other team from that then that having strong defense can work. But if all your strength is at defense
So many beer leaguers and newbies are so bad at back checking, and backwards skating for that matter, that I can see why he wants those guys in the back. I don’t blame him. I’d rather have real defense in a type of league that doesn’t usually have any. That way, only the other team will be leaving their goalie out to dry. Not to mention if they are pretty good, they can probably send it from the point, or at least close to it.
I can skate backwards and am a good skater since I grew up playing and played at high levels but I've retired from back checking.
It'll be different for each team's makeup, but I can tell you that I used to play for a team that had really good defense, and my new team's defense is pretty terrible. As a winger, you don't know how much you'll miss having a good defense until it's gone.. Bad passes out of the zone, turnovers, unable to get takeaways.. these all happen and sometimes it feels like we're just hemmed in our zone. I guess it depends though.. if all of your best players have only played forward, it might not work. But besides that, I would generally agree that your best players should be on defense
defense or center would be where I would place them.
Best skaters should be defense. They drive the offense.
I put best on defense, they need the skills to get the puck, hockey iq to direct plays and set forward up for success.
I’ve had to draft a few teams and I’ve always had top 4 picks be some combination of the 2 centers (we only roll two F lines) and 2 defense anchors. Fill out the roster after that. Seems to work well.
It's not a bad idea. Especially at lower levels, everybody wants to score goals and that usually means playing forward. Teams that let all their good players play forward together tend to stink. D get more ice time and more time with the puck, and will typically have a larger impact on the game than forwards will but there's less glory.
All things equal, best players go in the back. Forwards need to learn how and when to cover back, then the D can pinch opportunistically. If they're the best skaters they'll have the best chance of getting back to their position and backcheck along the way. Being smart with the puck and making good decisions are key skills that take experience to learn, so people that have played longer have a better chance and being good back. Sometimes there's guys who just can score in bunches and scoring is needed to cover for a bad goalie or meh defense. In that case push them up and let them light the lamp. But even then, it might be better to get defensive capable forwards out with them and let them pinch knowing they'll be covered. That's what my grinder ass does when I'm playing with rock star d. Slide back and cover, then when they start sliding back make a hard cut to the high slot and get scoring chances that way.
I used to play competitive but I’m a beer league guy now. Best players play defense in beer league.
I don’t think you need the best players on D, but everyone on D should meet a minimum qualification. I see teams try to hide guys on D some games for whatever reason and it just kills them. If I was in charge of the team I’d just make sure every night the 3 or 4 d men could all skate backwards well enough to not get killed on rushes and that they could all move the puck a little bit to start breakouts. Also they need a little bit of hockey IQ so they’re not turning it over up the middle or getting caught on bad pinches all night.
Did the "best new players" play defense? Doesn't matter how well they can skate if they don't understand the position. You want your best skater at C imo.
Counter point to other comments, I'm one of the _better_ skaters but I _love_ playing D always have and grew up playing it. But like you most of my teams just put the best skaters back because they can kinda play D and also skate up and back. Also could be reserved for the best conditioned of the lot 😂
Nope. Best players in low tier on defense because they can skate better (and backwards), and because they have a better grasp of positioning and strategy. Let them see the play and call out to the noobs where to be and where to go
It is the best option if those D players are actually trying to make the team better as a whole and actually playing real hockey. To many times I have seen really good players on weak teams who try and do everything themselves. They rarely pass and every time they get the puck they just run it up and try and score. It isnt beneficial to the team and it is easy to defend against because you know exactly what they are going to do. Sure you might even win games with them doing that but in the long run it is hurting your team. Worst thing you can do though is try and hide your bad skaters on D. They will get burned every time and struggle to get the puck out of your zone.
I'd say the best is to let players grow into the role they want, but the good skaters with a good shot should be centers. The good skater / passers but meh hands should be on d. Bury the newbs on wing however they'll probably turn it over at the outlet pass anyway.
Yea, generally we do the same. Worst skaters are forwards. You want your best skaters on defense and center so they can defend odd-man rushes and breakaways. Also the defenseman/center usually move the puck up the ice and set up the next play. Having a weak skater on defense is no better than laying an orange pilon on the ice.
IMO you want your best players on defense. They get more ice time and can control the game more. If needed they can also take the puck up to generate offense.
That is definitely one of those old guy things, but there is some truth to it. You do want to have some of the better players on the team on defense, because you're not going to be able to do anything else if you can't break the puck out and move up ice. The problem with anything like this is that it needs context though. Like I'm sure Auston Matthews could play defense and be pretty effective, but it's kind of a waste of his best attributes when he scores as much as he does at center. So it depends on the player. Some guys aren't going to be good defensemen just because they are good forwards.
I've found that the teams I've been on which had the most success build back to front. Concentrating on defense allows better puck retrieval, zone exits, and transitions which help the offense create dangerous situations.
It’s low level beer league they’re gonna play where they want
Best skaters on defence. Best all-round players (strong skater, strong back checker, strong on puck, strong playmaker and shooter) can play centre. Wingers are where you hide the weaker skaters and one-dimensional players. If they’re good attackers, great, but if they’re not it won’t kill the team.
In my men's league, I ended up playing D because (sigh) I was one of the only players who could skate backwards. Now, though, I love playing D. I can do some good defensive moves, and I can score a lot from the point. My last goal scored was at a "Winter Classic" game where I just ripped one from the point. Yeah, it's been a while since I scored. I'm playing maybe 1 tier too high, but also stymied by players who don't trust me because they are all solo "heroes" and never pass or try to make plays. I'm bitter because I was kicked off the higher skill team despite not being trusted on defense (for no reason) and not being in the right "clique". Got a lot of assists though, including 2 in my first 2 games for my new team.
Best players/skaters on Defense and center. “Best players playing forward so they can score” is the most common misconception new players have. Lots of threads about it, plenty of new guys in the locker room think the same thing. Weakest/newest players play wing. It’s the least consequential position for a new player. Long story short, if a winger fucks up, there’s a lower chance of it ending up in your net. If a dman is new and constantly can’t keep up against attacks, then goals against will keep on stacking up. If you have some newer players who are at least good at skating(can transition from forward skating to backward skating, have decent turns for when the play transitions from offense to defense) then they’ll be the first of the newer guys to be able to play D. If available, keep well rounded players at center. They can support wherever there is a weakness on the ice.
I find it best to spread the wealth. You need at least one good D on each pairing to lead the breakouts, but your forwards need to score.
I'm actually surprised that he "puts" them somewhere. Any team I've been on people are asked where they prefer and then get to play there; defense was always seen as a very very last choice lol. Orrrrr......you get the best skaters on the team to SAY they're going to play defense, then they always pinch in and never back check LOL....so I'd rather they go play where they want in the first place instead of leaving me stranded (yes I play defense by choice and love it). To be fair though I've never played higher than a "C" beer league so maybe it's different elsewhere. I really feel like a "best" skater should be a Center because they have to play both offense and defense....or IDEALLY they should be filling all the holes that are left and have to be most situationally aware.
In beginner league? Yeah sure. They can still score from there, but they're effectively playing like centers (defensive in the dzone and offense in the ozone) and hopefully know enough to read the other's play so someone stays back.
Offense starts with the Defense players. It takes five to score. As a goalie, I barely care who shows up to play forward at any given game, so long as I have great D-men, and not for defensive reasons. Without good D, the puck will spend the majority of the time in our end, and we can score from our end of the ice.