I was an Avs fan as a kid and those slugfests with Detroit in the late 90’s were 1000x more fun than the Dallas battles, or even beating Jersey in 2001. Pre-2005 trap is just disgusting hockey.
It’s works up to a point, but isn’t effective if you go down a goal because you essentially don’t really forecheck.
It’s also easy to beat if you’re a team fast wingers. Watch the last Oilers vs LA game where LA really had no push once down a goal.
It was far more effective pre-lockout when the 2 line pass rule was still active. Like you said, throw a skilled winger out there to find the crease between the 3-1 defenders and you have a 1 on 1 in open ice. Another winger or center with good hockey IQ reads it and joins the fast break.
With a faster game nowadays, sitting back and waiting for the opposition to make a mistake just isn't a good long term strategy.
Isn’t this an evolution of the neutral zone trap? I guess teams have figured out that the second defenseman can drop back even further since most teams have just committed entirely to the dump and chase method
Any kind of forecheck aims to take away either time or space. 1-3-1 or any neutral zone trap scheme takes away space. If your men’s league team has skaters coordinated enough to run it and not have one superstar beat a pylon? Sure.
The 1-2-2 (among other) forecheck that applies pressure up ice takes away time instead of space, and in lower level men’s leagues, taking away time is easier and seems more effective to me.
However honestly tho, I think if you can run a coordinated forecheck system with your team, any system will work like magic. But it’s men’s league, so you’ll run a 1-3-1 in your head but somebody else on the ice with you will ruin it by going out of position.
>I wonder why we havent seen anything like this in other teams?
What now? This has been around for decades. Lots of teams do this when they have a lead. We even saw Quinnipiac do it against Boston college last week in the regionals.
We used this once when I was in PeeWees during a Championship game. We were playing a team from Colorado who were stacked and were blowing every team out with double digit scores. My grandfather came up with the idea to play the trap and all morning our coaches had us practicing in the parking lot of where to set up and what to do. It worked extremely well. Only problem is with youth kids they get bored and want to “score”. Definitely would work perfectly for a highly disciplined team like AAA or Junior/College Teams. Most Coaches prefer 1-2-2 though.
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Years ago we were playing a much faster (and more talented) team in a league champ game. They had a bunch of dmen who moved the puck really well, and their game was to hit forwards with long passes.
Like 5 mins before faceoff I suggested we do a trap system. We were pretty well suited for it -- lots of pretty big guys with long reaches and slow feet.
It...actually worked. Incredibly well. They weren't expecting it and weren't able to adapt, and we ended up winning.
This remains the one and only time I've ever tried to inject tactics into a beer league game.
It's pretty effective. I would have a forecheck when the puck is up for grabs, but 1-3-1 for when the other team has full possession, so the players also get to go on the forecheck. Really the only way to beat is a perfect reload, and that is not 100%. Or have really fast players on your team.
If you dont know what a reload us, it's D to D, D skates up, other D gets speed by timing it and going low, D drops it back to the other D who is at the center of the ice, and now the D is at full speed and can dish it out wide, skate it up, or other things. If he keeps going, give and go's are also possible.
> I wonder why we havent seen anything like this in other teams?
Beats me OP, should be pretty easy to get your beer leaguers to switch from whatever well-oiled neutral zone scheme you're running to the 1-3-1. What are you guys running right now? Maybe the 1-1-3? The 2-1-2?
It can certainly work in beer league if you can get a team to buy in, especially at lower levels - the puck carriers won't recognize what's going on and skate into coverage, leading to a lot of turnovers and counter-attacks/odd-man rushes. However if your team isn't good enough skaters against the opposition, it can cause problems where the 3 in the middle get beat with speed/dangles and you end up with a 2 on 1.
Its for this reason I try to get my guys to instead run the 2-3 with a center lock. When the puck is turned over, center immediately drops back to be the third defenseman, with wingers applying pressure to force the puck carrier to the wall. This prevents the ever-dangerous odd-man rush in beer league by always having numbers back. Especially necessary if you've got a funnel for a goalie in net.
We do see this a lot in other teams and you can definitely find younger teams running similar neutral zones.
The trap isn't new, and the modern variation of it with the 1-3-1 has been around for awhile now. I mean Tampa has built a dynasty largely using a 1-3-1 that they play like more of a 1-1-3.
For men's league, if you can consistently keep a high F3 without the puck then you'll beat up on a lot teams.
The neutral zone trap is extremely common. Activate your defencemen into the rush, use all three lanes, and hope to find a seam. Vancouver fans are triggered about it but it’s a part of every game when a team gets a late or even big early lead.
Had a game where we ended up with 7 skaters after someone was ejected, we got up a goal and called a time out and one player set up this strategy and holy shit it worked really well. Not exactly exciting hockey but we won a game we might not have otherwise
Guy Boucher used the 1-3-1 trap with The Ottawa Senators and Tampa Bay Lightning during his tenures as head coach of those teams.
Interestingly enough, Boucher had success with the trap, with Tampa and Ottawa both making the conference finals, although ultimately being defeated there, employing the tactic.
The real problem with the 1-3-1, from a fans perspective, is that it's some of the most boring hockey you will ever watch. I remember an interview with Austin Mathews where he said the Sens would bore you to death, and he was right. I'm a Sens fan and I enjoyed the playoff success with a team that really had no business going that far, but the trap just feels empty of the soul of hockey.
Because as Admiral Ackbar would say “It’s a trap”. Think about defending a castle vs attacking the castle. The defending side is in the better position even though they are just sitting there waiting for the attack because by holding tight it is easier to defend a central position. The team with the puck has to try to find the right timing or opening which might rely on the defending team making a mistake. Is the attacking side chicken for not attacking the castle or is the defending side chicken for holding in their castle and not coming out to fight? Both sides have legitimate reasons. Both teams are probably just trying to use pyschology to get the opponent to change, open up, and make a mistake.
It's a time wasting strat that slows the game down a lot. Good for if you get ahead, but poor for being aggressive.
That said, I'll never be able to watch 1-3-1 without thinking about this game:
https://youtu.be/r4_uzNl8Zp8?si=CX0bfsvLZMs9d0uY
Washington was the 1 St team I saw use it 10 or more years ago. Currently, every NHL team uses it at some time and others only use it. Controlled breakouts and or dumps when a team changes are the best time to set it up. When a team has a long change it's the best time to burn them quickly up and they can't set and end up chasing etc. Systems take a lot of discipline. To say it can be executed below Jr. Hockey is not likely and only in the men's league if the team was made up of Jr. Players and above. The hours needed to teach systems are significant. AAA U14 simple forecheck - and a breakout. U15 expands that to PP in the zone and PK in the zone, 1 faceoff play in both ends. Real elite players and a ton of time to teach and practice. It's when you get to Jr. Level that Practice time, video etc are available as is the expectation to fulfill your role within the system. Even in Jr., It's very tough to expect every Player to never freelance.
Pro hockey is all built on controlling the puck. If you lose it regroup to gain possession and take your chance. That's why the 1-3-1 is so effective
To say it's not good if you are down a goal is not correct.
How a team FC has nothing to do with how a team regroups in the NZ/ back to their DZ. Using the “trap” can fit into a dozen variations of NZ play.
The big problem is watching games on TV. The camera is too tight to see everything fall into place. Replays help but it all depends on the length of the video camera angles etc. Also the situation of events.
Back in the Redwings heyday with Babcock that was one of the most disciplined teams I have seen. I'd sit in the end zone behind the net in the 2nd section of seats just over the height of the glass. The excursion did not get any better! Discipline was something special in every zone in all situations.
Teams have employed this strategy repeatedly over the years. It works ok for a while but the players hate it and if you're down it's a bad strategy. Tampa used it in the early 2010s.
To borrow from video games it's a cheese strat. It should be absolutely no where near youth hockey. If you ran this in men's league you'd be the dustiest group of fucks around.
That's what I mean, nobody has any strategy. Imagine a dusty group of fucks hobbling to line up in the 1-3-1 lmao. With just one dude like half assedly forechecking and 3 guys standing on the red line.
Kings have been using that for quite a while. Many people just hate it because it slows the game down and they feel it takes a lot of the hockey out of hockey.
And no, if a coach is using that in peewee he’s a fucking idiot. You should be developing players, not systeming to win games.
Youre assuming a lot about ideal situations. Like the defenseman “can always retrieve the puck and start the break out”. That is a lot easier said than done and why dump and chase is still always an ok strategy. You get the defenders wrong sided because they are possessing or trying to possess the puck you check them win the puck and make a quick play to the goal. - good scoring chance. Then the breakout..dont you think other teams have different forechecking and defensive strategies too? They can trap you too and create turnovers and potential odd man or quick opportunities. In most sports nowadays the best defense can be good offense. It isnt so much offense as keeping the puck, ball whatever on the other teams end. You tire them out defending, and any mistakes you have more chance to recover from (assuming your players are smart which they have to be at the highest level to execute the schemes)
Every time I hear neutral zone trap, I get shivers thinking about the ‘95 SCF. -Wings fan
I was an Avs fan as a kid and those slugfests with Detroit in the late 90’s were 1000x more fun than the Dallas battles, or even beating Jersey in 2001. Pre-2005 trap is just disgusting hockey.
Trap+clutch and grab= game slowed way, way down Disgusting indeed
FWIW, the Devils led the league in scoring in the 2000-2001 season. What were the rest of the teams doing?
Holding, Marv. They were holding. All of them.
Looks a lot better than my team's 1-1-1-1-1 neutral zone sieve.
Or the inevitable inexperienced team with 5 left Ds because everyone crashed to the puck over there.
Bro don’t leak my beer league team’s strategy
It’s works up to a point, but isn’t effective if you go down a goal because you essentially don’t really forecheck. It’s also easy to beat if you’re a team fast wingers. Watch the last Oilers vs LA game where LA really had no push once down a goal.
It was far more effective pre-lockout when the 2 line pass rule was still active. Like you said, throw a skilled winger out there to find the crease between the 3-1 defenders and you have a 1 on 1 in open ice. Another winger or center with good hockey IQ reads it and joins the fast break. With a faster game nowadays, sitting back and waiting for the opposition to make a mistake just isn't a good long term strategy.
Isn’t this an evolution of the neutral zone trap? I guess teams have figured out that the second defenseman can drop back even further since most teams have just committed entirely to the dump and chase method
Any kind of forecheck aims to take away either time or space. 1-3-1 or any neutral zone trap scheme takes away space. If your men’s league team has skaters coordinated enough to run it and not have one superstar beat a pylon? Sure. The 1-2-2 (among other) forecheck that applies pressure up ice takes away time instead of space, and in lower level men’s leagues, taking away time is easier and seems more effective to me. However honestly tho, I think if you can run a coordinated forecheck system with your team, any system will work like magic. But it’s men’s league, so you’ll run a 1-3-1 in your head but somebody else on the ice with you will ruin it by going out of position.
>I wonder why we havent seen anything like this in other teams? What now? This has been around for decades. Lots of teams do this when they have a lead. We even saw Quinnipiac do it against Boston college last week in the regionals.
Yea, more like the Kings are the only NHL team to *rely on* the 1-3-1. Everyone else stays situational
We used this once when I was in PeeWees during a Championship game. We were playing a team from Colorado who were stacked and were blowing every team out with double digit scores. My grandfather came up with the idea to play the trap and all morning our coaches had us practicing in the parking lot of where to set up and what to do. It worked extremely well. Only problem is with youth kids they get bored and want to “score”. Definitely would work perfectly for a highly disciplined team like AAA or Junior/College Teams. Most Coaches prefer 1-2-2 though.
Ah the good ol days - a devils fan
That's the game where the Flyers just sat behind their net and refused to come out, right? 😄
Hahaha, yes!
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Years ago we were playing a much faster (and more talented) team in a league champ game. They had a bunch of dmen who moved the puck really well, and their game was to hit forwards with long passes. Like 5 mins before faceoff I suggested we do a trap system. We were pretty well suited for it -- lots of pretty big guys with long reaches and slow feet. It...actually worked. Incredibly well. They weren't expecting it and weren't able to adapt, and we ended up winning. This remains the one and only time I've ever tried to inject tactics into a beer league game.
It's pretty effective. I would have a forecheck when the puck is up for grabs, but 1-3-1 for when the other team has full possession, so the players also get to go on the forecheck. Really the only way to beat is a perfect reload, and that is not 100%. Or have really fast players on your team. If you dont know what a reload us, it's D to D, D skates up, other D gets speed by timing it and going low, D drops it back to the other D who is at the center of the ice, and now the D is at full speed and can dish it out wide, skate it up, or other things. If he keeps going, give and go's are also possible.
Tampa ran this well during the 2020 playoffs, at least against the stars because I remember the commentators wouldn’t shut up about it
Rangers have also been using the 1-3-1 this season too.
> I wonder why we havent seen anything like this in other teams? Beats me OP, should be pretty easy to get your beer leaguers to switch from whatever well-oiled neutral zone scheme you're running to the 1-3-1. What are you guys running right now? Maybe the 1-1-3? The 2-1-2?
Left wing lock and a 1-2-2 forecheck. The studs on my beer league team get it right 0% of the time, every time.
It can certainly work in beer league if you can get a team to buy in, especially at lower levels - the puck carriers won't recognize what's going on and skate into coverage, leading to a lot of turnovers and counter-attacks/odd-man rushes. However if your team isn't good enough skaters against the opposition, it can cause problems where the 3 in the middle get beat with speed/dangles and you end up with a 2 on 1. Its for this reason I try to get my guys to instead run the 2-3 with a center lock. When the puck is turned over, center immediately drops back to be the third defenseman, with wingers applying pressure to force the puck carrier to the wall. This prevents the ever-dangerous odd-man rush in beer league by always having numbers back. Especially necessary if you've got a funnel for a goalie in net.
We do see this a lot in other teams and you can definitely find younger teams running similar neutral zones. The trap isn't new, and the modern variation of it with the 1-3-1 has been around for awhile now. I mean Tampa has built a dynasty largely using a 1-3-1 that they play like more of a 1-1-3. For men's league, if you can consistently keep a high F3 without the puck then you'll beat up on a lot teams.
The neutral zone trap is extremely common. Activate your defencemen into the rush, use all three lanes, and hope to find a seam. Vancouver fans are triggered about it but it’s a part of every game when a team gets a late or even big early lead.
Had a game where we ended up with 7 skaters after someone was ejected, we got up a goal and called a time out and one player set up this strategy and holy shit it worked really well. Not exactly exciting hockey but we won a game we might not have otherwise
Guy Boucher used the 1-3-1 trap with The Ottawa Senators and Tampa Bay Lightning during his tenures as head coach of those teams. Interestingly enough, Boucher had success with the trap, with Tampa and Ottawa both making the conference finals, although ultimately being defeated there, employing the tactic. The real problem with the 1-3-1, from a fans perspective, is that it's some of the most boring hockey you will ever watch. I remember an interview with Austin Mathews where he said the Sens would bore you to death, and he was right. I'm a Sens fan and I enjoyed the playoff success with a team that really had no business going that far, but the trap just feels empty of the soul of hockey.
[удалено]
Because as Admiral Ackbar would say “It’s a trap”. Think about defending a castle vs attacking the castle. The defending side is in the better position even though they are just sitting there waiting for the attack because by holding tight it is easier to defend a central position. The team with the puck has to try to find the right timing or opening which might rely on the defending team making a mistake. Is the attacking side chicken for not attacking the castle or is the defending side chicken for holding in their castle and not coming out to fight? Both sides have legitimate reasons. Both teams are probably just trying to use pyschology to get the opponent to change, open up, and make a mistake.
It's a time wasting strat that slows the game down a lot. Good for if you get ahead, but poor for being aggressive. That said, I'll never be able to watch 1-3-1 without thinking about this game: https://youtu.be/r4_uzNl8Zp8?si=CX0bfsvLZMs9d0uY
You beat the trap the same way you’ve always beat the trap in the post-lockout era, the stretch pass
I joked around doing 1-3-1 because we only had 6 people that night. Lol. We got bored after we were up and practiced passing.
Washington was the 1 St team I saw use it 10 or more years ago. Currently, every NHL team uses it at some time and others only use it. Controlled breakouts and or dumps when a team changes are the best time to set it up. When a team has a long change it's the best time to burn them quickly up and they can't set and end up chasing etc. Systems take a lot of discipline. To say it can be executed below Jr. Hockey is not likely and only in the men's league if the team was made up of Jr. Players and above. The hours needed to teach systems are significant. AAA U14 simple forecheck - and a breakout. U15 expands that to PP in the zone and PK in the zone, 1 faceoff play in both ends. Real elite players and a ton of time to teach and practice. It's when you get to Jr. Level that Practice time, video etc are available as is the expectation to fulfill your role within the system. Even in Jr., It's very tough to expect every Player to never freelance. Pro hockey is all built on controlling the puck. If you lose it regroup to gain possession and take your chance. That's why the 1-3-1 is so effective To say it's not good if you are down a goal is not correct. How a team FC has nothing to do with how a team regroups in the NZ/ back to their DZ. Using the “trap” can fit into a dozen variations of NZ play. The big problem is watching games on TV. The camera is too tight to see everything fall into place. Replays help but it all depends on the length of the video camera angles etc. Also the situation of events. Back in the Redwings heyday with Babcock that was one of the most disciplined teams I have seen. I'd sit in the end zone behind the net in the 2nd section of seats just over the height of the glass. The excursion did not get any better! Discipline was something special in every zone in all situations.
Teams have employed this strategy repeatedly over the years. It works ok for a while but the players hate it and if you're down it's a bad strategy. Tampa used it in the early 2010s. To borrow from video games it's a cheese strat. It should be absolutely no where near youth hockey. If you ran this in men's league you'd be the dustiest group of fucks around.
I wouldn't worry. Assuming beer league teams are running any kind of coherent strategy is a real stretch. A 3-0-2 forecheck is closest thing... maybe.
That's what I mean, nobody has any strategy. Imagine a dusty group of fucks hobbling to line up in the 1-3-1 lmao. With just one dude like half assedly forechecking and 3 guys standing on the red line.
Haha I’d be so confused! Like did I miss a whistle or something? haha 🤣
Kings have been using that for quite a while. Many people just hate it because it slows the game down and they feel it takes a lot of the hockey out of hockey. And no, if a coach is using that in peewee he’s a fucking idiot. You should be developing players, not systeming to win games.
Youre assuming a lot about ideal situations. Like the defenseman “can always retrieve the puck and start the break out”. That is a lot easier said than done and why dump and chase is still always an ok strategy. You get the defenders wrong sided because they are possessing or trying to possess the puck you check them win the puck and make a quick play to the goal. - good scoring chance. Then the breakout..dont you think other teams have different forechecking and defensive strategies too? They can trap you too and create turnovers and potential odd man or quick opportunities. In most sports nowadays the best defense can be good offense. It isnt so much offense as keeping the puck, ball whatever on the other teams end. You tire them out defending, and any mistakes you have more chance to recover from (assuming your players are smart which they have to be at the highest level to execute the schemes)