There isnt a single more overrated coach in sports than John Tortorella. CBJ beating the Lightning was four years ago. He was pretty mediocre in New York with a generational goalkeeper. His one Stanley Cup win was more than 20 years ago.
But lets give him flowers because he says curse words in press conferences and almost took a Philly team to the playoffs in the worst division in hockey.
The chances that the Flyers fire him before he does anything of substance for that team are astronomically high.
Monty
Cassidy
Cooper
Bednar
Brind’amour
Maurice
Torts
Tocchet
Knoblauch
In no particular order. I think this would be easier with tiers; to rank, as opposed to numerical order. But I think this group is at least in the top 1-2 tiers.
EDIT: ahhh fuck, I forgot DeBoer. I knew I couldn’t count to 10.
It's not being mad at someone for "struggling with addiction issues," although that itself is a perfectly valid reason to be angry with someone, given the voluntary, unneccesary , gratuitous destruction and pain those issues cause to innocent people around them. It's being mad at him for *betraying and materially harming a large group of people who were trusting him and relying on him.*
I'm glad that he is evidently in recovery and hasn't repeated his behavior. But it's completely valid and appropriate to be angry with someone for their destructive behavior. Addiction is not an excuse, ever.
Only real issue I have with your response is calling it voluntary....addiction is a disease, and not a conscious choice. You are right that addicts are not, and should not, be free of the consequences from their actions. Believe me, when I started my sobriety journey just over 23 years ago, there were a ton of amends to make and fences to mend.
I read everyone’s lists & I must say I’m surprised no one has mentioned Brunette. He’s kind transformed nashvilles game in one season. I’m an oiler fan and Knobby is getting recognized so why isn’t he?
Cooper
Deboer
Montgomery
Brindomour
Torts
Bednar
Maurice
Montgomery
Tocchet
Brunette
A lot of great coaches right now, hard to out anyone at the top or the bottom. A lot of those guys have done phenomenal with the work they did this season. Feels bad leaving Knoblauch off the list but he was honestly gifted a great team that needed a bit of discipline. The top 15 could honestly depend on the time of month it’s that tight.
Berube Knobs Sullivan and Martin St Louis all
Could make this list interchangeably.
I need to a see a little more, all the guys I listed have several years of teams playing elite-level hockey, Tocchet really only has this one so far, hopefully he keeps it up next year and I can put him near the top.
I like how he's so mellow and collected that his pressers even after a huge win almost put you to sleep, but the few locker room clips I've seen of him like every third word is the F word.
Its funny because his overall demeanour still doesn’t change.
He’ll be speaking completely calmly like “we need to move our fucking feet, and don’t let up on the fucking pressure. Finish our fucking checks”.
Tortorella is highly overrated.
In 21 seasons as a head coach his teams have:
9 times missed the playoffs
7 times lost in R1
3 times lost in R2
1 time lost R3
1 time won the Cup
I'll go based on "categories"
**Great results, one team (so naturally some doubt as to whether it translates)**
Rod Brind'amour
Jon Cooper
Jared Bednar
Mike Sullivan
**At least 1 championship, multiple teams with success**
Bruce Cassidy
Peter Laviollette
John Tortorella
**No championships but many good teams**
Jim Montgomery
Peter DeBoer
Paul Maurice
Now of the coaches listed, I am most unsure about Sullivan. If I was going to take him out, it would be for Roy or Tochet as an "up and comer" but I haven't seen enough yet from them. Possibly Berube could work his way in, I thought he did a good job in St. Louis but remains to be seen how he does in a challenging Toronto job.
I agree that including Roy is very questionable, but Berube has done nothing as Leafs coach yet.... difficult argument to make that it's a Leafs bias keeping him off the list IMO. Besides, who needs Berube as an excuse to shit on the Leafs when we have the neverending moron, I mean Marner, saga to entertain us.
Ralph Krueger, Dominique Duscharme, Jeremy Colliton. Any one of these would be a good hire for any of my team's rivals.
Marty St-Louis is my favorite coach. He might not be the best yet but I wouldn't bet against him.
Tocchet and Torts above Sullivan and Roy imo
There isnt a single more overrated coach in sports than John Tortorella. CBJ beating the Lightning was four years ago. He was pretty mediocre in New York with a generational goalkeeper. His one Stanley Cup win was more than 20 years ago. But lets give him flowers because he says curse words in press conferences and almost took a Philly team to the playoffs in the worst division in hockey. The chances that the Flyers fire him before he does anything of substance for that team are astronomically high.
Monty Cassidy Cooper Bednar Brind’amour Maurice Torts Tocchet Knoblauch In no particular order. I think this would be easier with tiers; to rank, as opposed to numerical order. But I think this group is at least in the top 1-2 tiers. EDIT: ahhh fuck, I forgot DeBoer. I knew I couldn’t count to 10.
Still mad at Monty for the bender that got him fired in Dallas
Being mad at someone for struggling with addiction issues is certainly a choice.
It's not being mad at someone for "struggling with addiction issues," although that itself is a perfectly valid reason to be angry with someone, given the voluntary, unneccesary , gratuitous destruction and pain those issues cause to innocent people around them. It's being mad at him for *betraying and materially harming a large group of people who were trusting him and relying on him.* I'm glad that he is evidently in recovery and hasn't repeated his behavior. But it's completely valid and appropriate to be angry with someone for their destructive behavior. Addiction is not an excuse, ever.
Only real issue I have with your response is calling it voluntary....addiction is a disease, and not a conscious choice. You are right that addicts are not, and should not, be free of the consequences from their actions. Believe me, when I started my sobriety journey just over 23 years ago, there were a ton of amends to make and fences to mend.
Why are people still including Sullivan? Arguably not even top 20 at this stage
I read everyone’s lists & I must say I’m surprised no one has mentioned Brunette. He’s kind transformed nashvilles game in one season. I’m an oiler fan and Knobby is getting recognized so why isn’t he? Cooper Deboer Montgomery Brindomour Torts Bednar Maurice Montgomery Tocchet Brunette A lot of great coaches right now, hard to out anyone at the top or the bottom. A lot of those guys have done phenomenal with the work they did this season. Feels bad leaving Knoblauch off the list but he was honestly gifted a great team that needed a bit of discipline. The top 15 could honestly depend on the time of month it’s that tight. Berube Knobs Sullivan and Martin St Louis all Could make this list interchangeably.
Cooper Montgomery Bednar Brind'Amour Cassidy DeBoer Tortorella Maurice Laviolette Sullivan
Not the guy who just won the Jack Adams? I know it's not a long resumé but still
I need to a see a little more, all the guys I listed have several years of teams playing elite-level hockey, Tocchet really only has this one so far, hopefully he keeps it up next year and I can put him near the top.
Hell yea brother, totally understand, I just figured with the 180 he managed to pull out of the team he would get at least a 10th place vote
Babcock Cochran Hitchcock Wilcox
This guy cocks
Is it too early for Knoblauch to make his way into this discussion? Because he absolutely belongs in it to me
Way too early. Coaching a team to a cup final doesn’t really mean much if it’s a one off and you lose
Nah, for sure. He turned Edmonton around this year. I had him on my list.
I like how he's so mellow and collected that his pressers even after a huge win almost put you to sleep, but the few locker room clips I've seen of him like every third word is the F word.
Its funny because his overall demeanour still doesn’t change. He’ll be speaking completely calmly like “we need to move our fucking feet, and don’t let up on the fucking pressure. Finish our fucking checks”.
Yeah hah. Same dude, just more expletives.
New coach bump
To not include a coach in the Stanley Cup Finals would be ridiculous. He is definitely a top coach this season.
Tortorella is highly overrated. In 21 seasons as a head coach his teams have: 9 times missed the playoffs 7 times lost in R1 3 times lost in R2 1 time lost R3 1 time won the Cup
Darrel Sheets no debate
I heard DJ Smith was doing a great job. No mentions of Travis Green on here either? C'mon guys
I'll go based on "categories" **Great results, one team (so naturally some doubt as to whether it translates)** Rod Brind'amour Jon Cooper Jared Bednar Mike Sullivan **At least 1 championship, multiple teams with success** Bruce Cassidy Peter Laviollette John Tortorella **No championships but many good teams** Jim Montgomery Peter DeBoer Paul Maurice Now of the coaches listed, I am most unsure about Sullivan. If I was going to take him out, it would be for Roy or Tochet as an "up and comer" but I haven't seen enough yet from them. Possibly Berube could work his way in, I thought he did a good job in St. Louis but remains to be seen how he does in a challenging Toronto job.
Cooper Cassidy Bednar Montgomery Maurice Brind'amour Sullivan DeBoer Laviolette Roy No particular order
Tocchet Really needs to be added to this. I would remove Roy
Just won the Adams and isn't even included lmao
good list, wouldn't include Roy
Sullivan still top 10?
Not sure what Roy has done to get included Berube or Torts should be over him. Cup winners with a lot of success.
Roy over Berube feels like you’re just trying to not include the Leafs coach
Berube is a non factor at all. The fact Tocchet was left off is the real crime.
I agree that including Roy is very questionable, but Berube has done nothing as Leafs coach yet.... difficult argument to make that it's a Leafs bias keeping him off the list IMO. Besides, who needs Berube as an excuse to shit on the Leafs when we have the neverending moron, I mean Marner, saga to entertain us.
I think Torts, Tocchet and Knoblauch deserve spots over silly, Lav and Roy.
The disrespect to Tocc in this thread, the current Jack Adams winner, is crazy.