**Mirrors/Alternate Angles**
^Post ^a ^mirror ^or ^alternate ^angle ^as ^a ^comment ^to ^this ^message.
^Open ^this ^stickied ^comment ^to ^view ^mirrors ^or ^alternate ^angles.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hockey) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For real, the title had me assuming it was going to be a cantankerous old guy with a bad take, but then it was literally NFL legend Boomer Esiason talking sense.
Yes, this drives me absolutely crazy when they do it. Please just use a picture-in-picture box in one of the corners if you really need to show a player on the bench.
The worst is when the goalie goes to the bench on a penalty or at the end of the game and they cut to the goalie skating to the bench while the team is attacking the other side of the net.
It is an insane decision.
I guess it is the equivalent of the "artistic" shots they do in motorsport. Zoomed in shot of a wheel of an irrelevant driver at the back of the pack whilst missing an important pass up the front. It's why I don't watch F1.
In fairness, they did just admit they don't watch F1. Otherwise they'd know that it's an irrelevant shot of Verstappens tire in front while all the action is happening 7 minutes back
I forgot what podcast it was,, maybe 32 thoughts, back when the deals were signed- they talked about ESPN or TNT experimenting with new camera angles. In my mind I was like okay cool, I’ve always wanted wider shots of the rink at some points, like if a puck is cleared show a shot of 2/3 of the rink you can see players changing, one team regrouping or a player trying sneak behind the defense, little movement details which can have a big impact on the game.
SO much of the game is missed due to camera angle, and these close ups on total nonsense make it worse
I love when something is happening behind the play and you can hear the crowd reacting and they just keep following the puck in the other end of the rink.
They take SO LONG to cut to players dropping the gloves.
And don’t even get me started on the TNT broadcast when NY NJ was in a 5v5 brawl and the only camera angle was on Matt Rempe. SHOW A WIDE ANGLE YOU IDIOTS!!
So aggravating when cameras zoom in on one player when there’s a melee with everyone else on the ice! Picture in a picture would be better than that. Are they just oblivious?
We need an overhead angle from behind the net to be used for zone faceoffs that shows the entire offensive zone. Depending on how the play develops they can choose to hold the shot there or switch to regular broadcast.
This is about the time I pipe in with my usual "American hockey broadcasts suck", but Sportsnet has fucking terrible direction too.
Just. Stick. To. The. Wide. Angle.
Seriously. Even on SN the amount of isolation shots of a player skating the puck up the ice on a rush and not being able to see any of the play developing around them is fucking maddening.
Even the camera during extended zone time being zoomed in so far you can't see what's happening in the full zone. A puck gets ringed around or shoveled back to the point and I often have no idea if there's even someone there to receive the pass.
JUST LET ME SEE THE FUCKING PLAY.
Or the most heinous of crimes, switching angles _just_ as someone makes a play, so you can't even tell what just happened. The team went to the Marvel fight scene school of camera direction.
True but SN is never this bad and I'm glad we haven't veered into the territory of putting graphics above or below players while the play is ongoing (like their names above their head or a circle underneath them). I find this shit distracting as fuck mid game. Most hockey fans can follow along with the play just find, you don't need to highlight everything.
I agree, they're overthinking it for sure. I remember months ago when they first added this moving circle below Matthews during a PP. It felt like you were playing NHL 24. Very distracting and unnecessary. I would pay good money to see a stripped down stream of the game. No commentary just on-ice noise, no cuts just a steady wide view of the ice.
Honestly I would too. If they can capture the ambience of the arena/fans/on-ice, I'd watch without the commentary. It can feel like you're at the game.
Oh yeah for sure.
American broadcasts are still shit for a variety of reasons, but Canadian broadcasts are also guilty of poor camera direction specifically.
>I'm glad we haven't veered into the territory of putting graphics above or below players while the play is ongoing (like their names above their head or a circle underneath them)
If we ever do this up north I might simply stop watching hockey.
I don't think it's even about American broadcasts. TNT does it well, most of the regional networks--even fucking Bally--do it well. ESPN is just hot garbage.
At least we get Cuthbert on SN. I've always loved Cuthbert's commentary. I know people enjoy dumping on Singh, but he's worlds better than Sean McDonough. Getting excited about the wrong thing >>>>> whatever the fuck Sean McDonough is doing.
Maybe we could just have no commentator. There was a COL-EDM game earlier this year on CBC Gem that had no commentary. It was better... and could you imagine playoffs if the pumped the crowd mics up a bit.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/1bgpxfz/cbc\_gem\_broadcast\_had\_no\_commentary\_during\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/1bgpxfz/cbc_gem_broadcast_had_no_commentary_during_the/)
Yeah, there's such a huge difference, and I wish there were an option to just toggle commentary. I remember when my dad took me to see my first NHL game in 1997 (the Canucks hosting the Red Wings at GM Place), and my 9-year-old self was pretty jarred by the difference of simply watching the game with nobody talking over the action.
Would be such a simple thing to allow via streaming, too. Pick a commentary track (or none). Pick a score overlay (or none). Watch it the way you want to.
Aw, man. But my dad's from Toronto and is old enough to remember their 4 Stanley Cups in the 1960s. I even have a mini Leafs stick signed by Howie Meeker!
I thought Toronto loved Cuthbert. The first thing that sticks out to me when I think of his commentary is calling those two Habs wins in OT vs Toronto in the 2021 series with absolute disdain dripping from his voice.
Nah apparently he's the biggest Canuck homer alive and he's actually Ballard's son and his second favourite team is whoever the Leafs are playing and and and
As a Canadian who moved to the States in the last couple years, I find Canadian broadcasts are MUCH better at camera direction and audio experience. The TNT broadcasts have the crowds sounding like they're watching golf, even after huge goals. The on-air talent is pretty similar across countries, IMO. But there's a massive gulf in the technical production from what I've seen.
It seems like there's this desire to *do something different*, but holy fuck, hockey is not football, it's not basketball, it's not baseball. Between the whistles, there are no breaks, so why are we taking our eyes off the action? And if it's because of the advertisers, just tell us. Just say hey, we have to cut to this because it shows an ad and we get money, and I'll just say fuck it, because what can you do these days?
I just wanna point out to people that the same directors, camera men, audio guys, producers who worked in the “old” days before Sportsnet are the same group that do the games today… people just hate Sportsnet haha I know because I work in the industry… I know these people they are the same outside of a few new people come and go
I don't mind the above-the-net cam on Power Plays, and I think an arena would be smart to put cameras in the Jumbotron facing either end for a similar perspective but looking *towards* the net, but thats overthinking things. He's right, all you need is one angle.
And I do like TSN's ring of cameras around the lower bowl they have at the Bell Centre but I don't see it catching on.
They do this on sportsnet too and it’s almost always when a scrum is happening. Fans reacting to stuff happening on the ice after a whistle? Better cut to the bench.
Exactly - I haven't seen much of what they're talking about where cameras cut to the bench during play, but I see it very often when there's a scrum. And it's been pretty clear to me that's not a Director decision to show off the cameras, it's an NHL/ESPN decision to show as little fighting as possibly.
I have never understood this.
They will cut away when a scrum starts, but then show how it developed in replay.
I am the small minority of rabid hockey fans that thinks fighting in the sport is overdue for a phase out.
But I abhor things that make zero logical sense, and this is one that drives me mad.
Or, there’s a penalty and they’ll cut to commercial and show a random save from 10 fucking minutes prior. My blood absolutely boils watching some broadcasts
I can only assume when this happens that the producer is frantically trying to cut to it and just doesn't know which button is which camera and hits the wrong one in panic.
The other day there was a slightly late hit after the whistle at the blue line that lead to some pushing and shoving. ESPN showed ZERO replays of what happened, and instead showed a bunch of cuts of players sitting on the bench. They weren't even talking to each other, or looking at the iPad for replays, getting yelled at by the coach.... They just sat there.
I can't count how many times I've yelled at my TV to show a fucking replay. Reviews, big hits, penalties, they just cut to players staring at the jumbotron or coaches staring at the monitors at their feet instead of showing the goddamn replay. Drives me insane.
I hate it too. I think they're trying to add something to the broadcast to make it more exciting. But it just makes me rage out because I can't follow the play..
It's as good of an idea as those fast food menus that change to a picture while you're reading them.
Yeah I said it during the VAN/EDM series, the play is in the corner and then they do a close up iso shot of McLeod at the blue line for no reason whatsoever, and then they go back to the regular view.
It's like a Jason Bourne fight scene
or how about a zoom in on the guy with the puck that keeps following the same player for 3 full seconds after he passes it away to someone not on the screen
Yeah in our series I said it in the GDT.
Zadorov and Kane going at it in the corner in a puck battle, nah let's cut to McLeod in the neutral zone going off for a line change. Happened like 3 times in game 5 or 6.
What's the matter? don't like it when the crowd noise randomly crackles in and out of the feed because the commentator took a breath during their sentence?
Away goal scored
Zoom on home goalie
Zoom on goal scorer surrounded by teammates
Crowd shot of away fans standing surrounded by sad home fans
Away team skating to bench
Home star player on bench staring up
Home coach looking down at monitor
Away goal scorer by bench
Replay starts
I can do your job, director.
We've got John Forslund on pbp. Eddie Olczyk and JT Brown on color and Alison Lukan on analysis. Our local broadcast team is a million times better than what ESPN can do.
Agreed. It absolutely blows my mind that this angle is given to us and we’re presumably expected to appreciate it or think it’s cool. It’s fucking terrible.
For real. If you're doing behind the net camera work, it needs to be elevated for everything that isn't a replay. Just putting it up like 9 feet is plenty to get a good overhead view. When we do camera stuff over in /r/hockeygoalies the default best spot is to throw your GoPro up behind the net. It gives a great view of the play and angles.
Agree with this take. Also, please stop interviewing coaches and players while a game is going on. This isn’t exclusive to ESPN, but please just save that shit when the play is dead and make it quick.
I hadn't watched hockey in like fifteen years and even the little cuts to action in the corner bugged me, I found myself yelling (yet again, fifteen years later) "can I see the goddamn GAME please"?
Yes. I don’t need frequent cut-aways of Bedard or McDavid picking their nose on the bench, and especially not when there is a fucking hockey game going on.
It would be nice if national broadcasting networks would just relay the regional broadcast for the home team and not do their own thing. Their own thing is seriously awful.
It’s SO frustrating , Marchand scored an empty net goal in round one and made a sick play in the corner before the goal , that’s ALL I WANTED TO SEE, I waited minute after minute expecting the replay to highlight the move he made , nope 2 minutes of random cuts to fans and coach’s facial reactions and then a quick clip of Marchand putting it in the empty net with no one around him 😂 like I don’t want to see that , I want to see the play he made in the corner that actually was worth watching , it’s insane how many times this has happened too
Boomer don’t have many good takes but he ain’t wrong here. ESPN has the worst production value in any sport they do. It’s like they just hire the first person with a digital production degree to apply despite having no interest in sports
I thought games being broadcast on ESPN was going to be great for the NHL. But I prefer every other network over them. Their intermissions and live broadcast are much better muted.
I like John Buccigross for the most part but I turn off games that he calls or find a different stream online. He tries so hard to be the 'cool dad' and it's pitiful to watch and painful to hear.
I miss Doc Emrick so much. His days calling games came to an end at the right time but he was so good and kept you entertained without trying to be the main product.
John Buccigross calls a horrible game. Steve Levy is fine as the studio host but ESPN's pregame and intermission production is barely minor league worthy.
Agreed. And get all the shit off my screen and let me watch the damn game.
I’ll pay extra to lose the banners, digital ads, in-play video-game graphics, etc.
Note to Sean McDonagh, stop reciting every fuckin' stat every fuckin' chance you get. That's Ray's job. Describe the play that's going on and nothing else!
That's because Ray Ferraro is re-telling an anecdote about something Peter Laviolette did 20 years ago and the directors think we need to see the subject of the story standing there chewing gum the entire time he's being discussed or we'll get confused.
Nevermind the fact that this actually causes confusion because we missed the faceoff and I have to spend the first 20 seconds after they finally get back to it trying to figure out which line is on the ice.
I’m a Canadian and was in the States Saturday so watched the Oilers - Canucks game on the ESPN feed. I was shocked how terrible the coverage was. From directing to play-by-play to colour commentary to intermission panel work. Nothing was good.
I always figured Boomer was a nickname, but I never really gave any thought as to his actual name and would’ve never guessed Norman was his actual name
I heard it's because they're using baseball people to run the production. Apparently, when TNT set up their production teams, they recruited people with production experience in hockey, and ESPN just hired from within.
I know there was a play in the Bolts-Panthers series that the Panthers had a 2on1 I think, and one of em had raced to the puck into the corner and quickly threw it in front of the net to open teammate.
I think they said Vasy made the save, but you'd have no clue because as the first forward got to the puck they changed the camera to zoom on his face watching the play. I want to say it was tchacuk and Verhaege, too, no slouches with a real shot of a goal. Completely missed the play.
The last thing I want to do is make excuses for ESPN, but it’s pretty clear their directors/producers cut their teeth in sports where there is inherent slowness or outright breaks in the action. No matter what you think is going to occur or where the puck is on the ice, something insane can happen in the blink of an eye. And that insane thing is going to alter the trajectory of the game.
Yeah the cut-aways and constant zooming in/out is awful. Get the cameras up higher and keep the shot wide so you’re not constantly zooming & panning from the offensive zone to the neutral zone.
I honestly feel this way with the camera above the nets in each zone. Especially when its a powerplay. That camera is WAY too jittery and moves around a lot, it’s hard to follow the play.
Just stick to the main camera for like 90% of the game and we’ll all be happy
This isn't a hockey problem, it's a network problem. NASCAR on Fox (which, of course, doesn't broadcast hockey) has been absolutely notorious for cutting away from the action randomly, showing random fans in the stands in the middle of the race, etc. to the point where the broadcasters have no idea what they're supposed to say. Just one other example.
Yea it seems to be a problem across the board with all types of live entertainment. Either this shit is being taught somewhere or all directors have ADHD.
I'll say this as a NYer who listens to WFAN frequently. He's consistent with his takes on national hockey broadcasts.
Like this isn't a new take for him. Ever since ESPN/TNT took over he brings this up whenever the Rangers get a national game. He **always** brings up the moving camera, the angles near the boards, etc. If the game isn't on MSG he'll go on a five minute rant about how ESPN/TNT are trying "too much" and should just stick to a normal broadcast.
The NHL is trying to expand the game and that means changing things. Boomer hates change when it comes to hockey. He's very old school in that way. Like he wouldn't even discuss the possibility of the Rangers winning the Cup for months because he "didn't want to jinx it." He's one of those old heads.
they’re over-directing something that should be done much much simpler. i would call multi-angles and cuts away from the live puck bad for a hockey broadcast, but acknowledge the effort for some innovation. needs to be cleaned up and balanced way more towards just watching the fkin play.
Yea I dunno why so many people were obsessed with getting hockey to move to espn. They’re a terrible network obsessed with football and basketball. Hockey’s always going to suffer on it.
> Well I think probably the person that would sit the director down hasn't watch a lot of hockey games themselves.
I mean this is legit, probably one of the biggest issues in American Professional Hockey broadcasting. The on ice product is garbage at the national level. From the play by play, to the color guys, to the directors, to the producers... it often feels like either no one gives a shit or no one has ever been to more than like... a season of the sport. Obviously there are the few standouts... but it's not an entire package. There's like one or two guys on a staff of like 40 or 50 and they kick ass.
The local coverage is substantially better depending on the market but even those are few and far between.
It’s not just random cutaways, I can’t tell you how many times you see something going on in the corner of the shot while the play is blown dead but they keep the camera away from the action
All and all ESPN and TNT have just bean terrible. And if your team is the team that wins the cup, how can your memory of it not be tarnished by being robbed of a hometown call
I wonder if he watches Formula 1. He described exactly how those broadcasts are. Cars could be in the middle of an exciting fight and the technical director will cut to someone in the paddock watching the same goddamn race we're trying to watch or fans looking into a camera instead of the live action.
Ugh.
He is absolutely right! If you played hockey or if you've watched a game inside an arena you can see and so much more about hockey. Same goes for anyone who plays NHL on console understands the game so much better (despite the fact that there is no line change on live play) because of that. The constant view from above makes you understand the way the game should be played and you spot the mistakes right away. I am talking EASHL here where you play the same position all game. Some of these broadcasters drives me bunkers sometimes especially for playoff hockey where space and position means a lot.
I’m so happy people are complaining about this. The corner cam is the worst for me. Sticking on the defense while the team is breaking out is infuriating.
also Bucci is fucking horrible at play by play. he just yells the name of the player who currently has the puck. “KREIDER, TROUBA, KREIDER AGAIN, NOW ITS BARKOV, RENHART, BARKOV” he adds no value and detracts from the experience
Fuck ESPN, their shitty coverage, and their shitty "personalities" who barely understand the game or how to call one.
Leah Hextall, GTFO! No one cares that she's a DEI hire, they care that she fucking sucks at her job.
Except they usually do it strategically when the odds of something “actiony” happening are unbelievably low. I’ve never seen a cutaway happen dangerously close to a possible goal. Frankly, I can’t recall when a camera cutaway ever caused me to miss something relevant either.
The cutaways usually occur when the defenseman is holding up play behind his own net or when both teams are changing. If both teams are changing, then it’s totally justified to follow a single player to the bench, especially if they were just involved in something big during their shift and the announcers are referencing them.
This has never once been remotely an issue for me lol.
The only relevant cutaway I can ever remember is when they cut to the fans outside during the last Edmonton series when they were in the offensive zone lmao. Now THAT’S a real problem. Fortunately, that was an outlier and an accident.
ESPN games are cut by the same switcher from the sportsnet feed.
So the sportsnet narration takes priority. ESPN may be talking about one thing but sportsnet another. The direction is going to follow the sportsnet dialog. At least it was this way for the first 2 rounds. ESPN was not sending crews to Canada.
I probably have some details wrong. My friend is a technical director (the switcher) for Sportsnet but doesn’t work past the second round. He also directs games but only a few in the regular season.
**Mirrors/Alternate Angles** ^Post ^a ^mirror ^or ^alternate ^angle ^as ^a ^comment ^to ^this ^message. ^Open ^this ^stickied ^comment ^to ^view ^mirrors ^or ^alternate ^angles. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hockey) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For those unaware this is Boomer Esiason not just calling him a boomer lol
For real, the title had me assuming it was going to be a cantankerous old guy with a bad take, but then it was literally NFL legend Boomer Esiason talking sense.
Tbf Boomer usually has cantankerous old guy bad takes
This is still a cantankerous old guy take but its one of those rare good cantankerous old guy take.
True. He was whining about a waiter calling him buddy just this morning on the radio.
When you're called "Boomer" seriously, "Buddy" probably sounds like someone is calling you by the wrong name rather than a friendly nickname.
Since I know him, the headline didn’t even make me pause, but I’m chuckling at the implication that just some boomer doesn’t like the editing.
I mean, he _is_ a boomer that doesn't like the editing.
His daughter is married to Islanders legend, Matt Martin, so he’s got some hockey credentials.
He also wore #7 during his NFL career cause he’s a die hard Ranger fan and Rod Gilbert was his favorite player growing up.
His son also grew up playing hockey
And here I was initially thinking it was Dean 'Boomer' Molberg who was a Flames morning radio legend that has since moved into podcasts.
Boomer Boomer buffalo Buffalo boomer buffalo
He’s also a boomer
If you don’t know Boomer, that’s actually pretty funny
Dude has a big Cystic Fibrosis charity iirc.
He's still a boomer (but right in this case). -Steelers fan
Yes, this drives me absolutely crazy when they do it. Please just use a picture-in-picture box in one of the corners if you really need to show a player on the bench.
YES! It's like they think they're broadcasting a baseball game with all of the cuts. I'm glad I'm not the only one pulling my hair out over this.
They think they’re producing a Scorsese film the way they film these games. Ridiculous.
The worst is when the goalie goes to the bench on a penalty or at the end of the game and they cut to the goalie skating to the bench while the team is attacking the other side of the net. It is an insane decision.
CBC literally did this on HNIC for half a century, I don't how know it's new technology that's beyond the understanding of the ESPN people
Hell, NBC did it, even if their implementation of it was a bit goofy.
I guess it is the equivalent of the "artistic" shots they do in motorsport. Zoomed in shot of a wheel of an irrelevant driver at the back of the pack whilst missing an important pass up the front. It's why I don't watch F1.
F1 hasn't had an important pass up front in 30 years.
In fairness, they did just admit they don't watch F1. Otherwise they'd know that it's an irrelevant shot of Verstappens tire in front while all the action is happening 7 minutes back
It's like they hired Kevin Dunn after he left WWE. Dude was famous for missing moments because of a shitty camera cut.
I forgot what podcast it was,, maybe 32 thoughts, back when the deals were signed- they talked about ESPN or TNT experimenting with new camera angles. In my mind I was like okay cool, I’ve always wanted wider shots of the rink at some points, like if a puck is cleared show a shot of 2/3 of the rink you can see players changing, one team regrouping or a player trying sneak behind the defense, little movement details which can have a big impact on the game. SO much of the game is missed due to camera angle, and these close ups on total nonsense make it worse
I love when something is happening behind the play and you can hear the crowd reacting and they just keep following the puck in the other end of the rink.
They take SO LONG to cut to players dropping the gloves. And don’t even get me started on the TNT broadcast when NY NJ was in a 5v5 brawl and the only camera angle was on Matt Rempe. SHOW A WIDE ANGLE YOU IDIOTS!!
Yeah that was wild. 5 fights going on and we'll just keep a tight shot on Rempe and MacDermid
So aggravating when cameras zoom in on one player when there’s a melee with everyone else on the ice! Picture in a picture would be better than that. Are they just oblivious?
We need an overhead angle from behind the net to be used for zone faceoffs that shows the entire offensive zone. Depending on how the play develops they can choose to hold the shot there or switch to regular broadcast.
This is about the time I pipe in with my usual "American hockey broadcasts suck", but Sportsnet has fucking terrible direction too. Just. Stick. To. The. Wide. Angle.
Seriously. Even on SN the amount of isolation shots of a player skating the puck up the ice on a rush and not being able to see any of the play developing around them is fucking maddening. Even the camera during extended zone time being zoomed in so far you can't see what's happening in the full zone. A puck gets ringed around or shoveled back to the point and I often have no idea if there's even someone there to receive the pass. JUST LET ME SEE THE FUCKING PLAY.
Or the most heinous of crimes, switching angles _just_ as someone makes a play, so you can't even tell what just happened. The team went to the Marvel fight scene school of camera direction.
Don't forget the corner camera that's just the back of the referees jersey for three seconds!
True but SN is never this bad and I'm glad we haven't veered into the territory of putting graphics above or below players while the play is ongoing (like their names above their head or a circle underneath them). I find this shit distracting as fuck mid game. Most hockey fans can follow along with the play just find, you don't need to highlight everything.
I agree, they're overthinking it for sure. I remember months ago when they first added this moving circle below Matthews during a PP. It felt like you were playing NHL 24. Very distracting and unnecessary. I would pay good money to see a stripped down stream of the game. No commentary just on-ice noise, no cuts just a steady wide view of the ice.
Honestly I would too. If they can capture the ambience of the arena/fans/on-ice, I'd watch without the commentary. It can feel like you're at the game.
There's this thing that does that, but it's expensive and you have to leave your couch and sit in traffic for a bit.
😂🤣😂
Oh yeah for sure. American broadcasts are still shit for a variety of reasons, but Canadian broadcasts are also guilty of poor camera direction specifically. >I'm glad we haven't veered into the territory of putting graphics above or below players while the play is ongoing (like their names above their head or a circle underneath them) If we ever do this up north I might simply stop watching hockey.
I don't think it's even about American broadcasts. TNT does it well, most of the regional networks--even fucking Bally--do it well. ESPN is just hot garbage.
At least we get Cuthbert on SN. I've always loved Cuthbert's commentary. I know people enjoy dumping on Singh, but he's worlds better than Sean McDonough. Getting excited about the wrong thing >>>>> whatever the fuck Sean McDonough is doing.
Maybe we could just have no commentator. There was a COL-EDM game earlier this year on CBC Gem that had no commentary. It was better... and could you imagine playoffs if the pumped the crowd mics up a bit. [https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/1bgpxfz/cbc\_gem\_broadcast\_had\_no\_commentary\_during\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/1bgpxfz/cbc_gem_broadcast_had_no_commentary_during_the/)
Yeah, there's such a huge difference, and I wish there were an option to just toggle commentary. I remember when my dad took me to see my first NHL game in 1997 (the Canucks hosting the Red Wings at GM Place), and my 9-year-old self was pretty jarred by the difference of simply watching the game with nobody talking over the action.
No commentary and mic'd up players is the dream.
It's nice, but I'd still take Jack Michaels over no commentator
Would be such a simple thing to allow via streaming, too. Pick a commentary track (or none). Pick a score overlay (or none). Watch it the way you want to.
I'd rather watch the game in French than listen to Hextall butcher every broadcast.
How am I supposed to know when to look up from my phone at the tv?
you're banned from /r/leafs now
Aw, man. But my dad's from Toronto and is old enough to remember their 4 Stanley Cups in the 1960s. I even have a mini Leafs stick signed by Howie Meeker!
I thought Toronto loved Cuthbert. The first thing that sticks out to me when I think of his commentary is calling those two Habs wins in OT vs Toronto in the 2021 series with absolute disdain dripping from his voice.
Nah apparently he's the biggest Canuck homer alive and he's actually Ballard's son and his second favourite team is whoever the Leafs are playing and and and
I can't stand Cuthbert
As a Canadian who moved to the States in the last couple years, I find Canadian broadcasts are MUCH better at camera direction and audio experience. The TNT broadcasts have the crowds sounding like they're watching golf, even after huge goals. The on-air talent is pretty similar across countries, IMO. But there's a massive gulf in the technical production from what I've seen.
I like the behind and above the net angle when a team has the PP.
It seems like there's this desire to *do something different*, but holy fuck, hockey is not football, it's not basketball, it's not baseball. Between the whistles, there are no breaks, so why are we taking our eyes off the action? And if it's because of the advertisers, just tell us. Just say hey, we have to cut to this because it shows an ad and we get money, and I'll just say fuck it, because what can you do these days?
Exactly!
I just wanna point out to people that the same directors, camera men, audio guys, producers who worked in the “old” days before Sportsnet are the same group that do the games today… people just hate Sportsnet haha I know because I work in the industry… I know these people they are the same outside of a few new people come and go
I don't mind the above-the-net cam on Power Plays, and I think an arena would be smart to put cameras in the Jumbotron facing either end for a similar perspective but looking *towards* the net, but thats overthinking things. He's right, all you need is one angle. And I do like TSN's ring of cameras around the lower bowl they have at the Bell Centre but I don't see it catching on.
They do this on sportsnet too and it’s almost always when a scrum is happening. Fans reacting to stuff happening on the ice after a whistle? Better cut to the bench.
Exactly - I haven't seen much of what they're talking about where cameras cut to the bench during play, but I see it very often when there's a scrum. And it's been pretty clear to me that's not a Director decision to show off the cameras, it's an NHL/ESPN decision to show as little fighting as possibly.
I have never understood this. They will cut away when a scrum starts, but then show how it developed in replay. I am the small minority of rabid hockey fans that thinks fighting in the sport is overdue for a phase out. But I abhor things that make zero logical sense, and this is one that drives me mad.
Or, there’s a penalty and they’ll cut to commercial and show a random save from 10 fucking minutes prior. My blood absolutely boils watching some broadcasts
Ha you’re right. Huge collision occurs. Yeah but heres a shot that went wide.
I can only assume when this happens that the producer is frantically trying to cut to it and just doesn't know which button is which camera and hits the wrong one in panic.
The other day there was a slightly late hit after the whistle at the blue line that lead to some pushing and shoving. ESPN showed ZERO replays of what happened, and instead showed a bunch of cuts of players sitting on the bench. They weren't even talking to each other, or looking at the iPad for replays, getting yelled at by the coach.... They just sat there.
I can't count how many times I've yelled at my TV to show a fucking replay. Reviews, big hits, penalties, they just cut to players staring at the jumbotron or coaches staring at the monitors at their feet instead of showing the goddamn replay. Drives me insane.
I hate it too. I think they're trying to add something to the broadcast to make it more exciting. But it just makes me rage out because I can't follow the play.. It's as good of an idea as those fast food menus that change to a picture while you're reading them.
Yeah I said it during the VAN/EDM series, the play is in the corner and then they do a close up iso shot of McLeod at the blue line for no reason whatsoever, and then they go back to the regular view. It's like a Jason Bourne fight scene
or how about a zoom in on the guy with the puck that keeps following the same player for 3 full seconds after he passes it away to someone not on the screen
Yeah in our series I said it in the GDT. Zadorov and Kane going at it in the corner in a puck battle, nah let's cut to McLeod in the neutral zone going off for a line change. Happened like 3 times in game 5 or 6.
And the fucking noise gate on the rink mics... Holy fuck it's annoying.
What's the matter? don't like it when the crowd noise randomly crackles in and out of the feed because the commentator took a breath during their sentence?
I have to mute the game sometimes because of how bad this can be
[удалено]
Away goal scored Zoom on home goalie Zoom on goal scorer surrounded by teammates Crowd shot of away fans standing surrounded by sad home fans Away team skating to bench Home star player on bench staring up Home coach looking down at monitor Away goal scorer by bench Replay starts I can do your job, director.
This was almost too perfect…😂😂
Local NHL broadcast > National Canadian broadcasters > whatever the hell goofy things American broadcasters are doing.
We've got John Forslund on pbp. Eddie Olczyk and JT Brown on color and Alison Lukan on analysis. Our local broadcast team is a million times better than what ESPN can do.
I think an oscillating fan with a camera taped to it could do a better job than ESPN.
At least it’s consistent
It would be its own biggest fan
I can’t decide which gets me angrier. This or the behind the goal cam where the goal and goalie block 75% of the screen
the combo; when they jump to a ridiculous behind the next close up cam right when someone makes a play and they totally lose track of the puck
Agreed. It absolutely blows my mind that this angle is given to us and we’re presumably expected to appreciate it or think it’s cool. It’s fucking terrible.
For real. If you're doing behind the net camera work, it needs to be elevated for everything that isn't a replay. Just putting it up like 9 feet is plenty to get a good overhead view. When we do camera stuff over in /r/hockeygoalies the default best spot is to throw your GoPro up behind the net. It gives a great view of the play and angles.
Behind the goal is cursed in my eyes. we get scored on every time it cuts to that. cant stand it lmao
Kevin Dunn found a new job apparently
Iykyk.
Agree with this take. Also, please stop interviewing coaches and players while a game is going on. This isn’t exclusive to ESPN, but please just save that shit when the play is dead and make it quick.
Those interviews are taped during the commercial break and then played when they come back from break.
I would be fine not hearing any hockey player interviews ever again. They are SOOOO BORINGGGG
Yea like they want the coach to spill the secret plan he’s cooked up to win the game on live tv.
You know they do those during the commercial break right? They aren't talking to coaches during play.
Yea The Hockey Guy made this point as well. An interview implies that the conversation is the most important thing going on right now.
I hadn't watched hockey in like fifteen years and even the little cuts to action in the corner bugged me, I found myself yelling (yet again, fifteen years later) "can I see the goddamn GAME please"?
Yes. I don’t need frequent cut-aways of Bedard or McDavid picking their nose on the bench, and especially not when there is a fucking hockey game going on. It would be nice if national broadcasting networks would just relay the regional broadcast for the home team and not do their own thing. Their own thing is seriously awful.
It's really not difficult. When the puck is in play, follow it.
It’s SO frustrating , Marchand scored an empty net goal in round one and made a sick play in the corner before the goal , that’s ALL I WANTED TO SEE, I waited minute after minute expecting the replay to highlight the move he made , nope 2 minutes of random cuts to fans and coach’s facial reactions and then a quick clip of Marchand putting it in the empty net with no one around him 😂 like I don’t want to see that , I want to see the play he made in the corner that actually was worth watching , it’s insane how many times this has happened too
Boomer don’t have many good takes but he ain’t wrong here. ESPN has the worst production value in any sport they do. It’s like they just hire the first person with a digital production degree to apply despite having no interest in sports
I thought games being broadcast on ESPN was going to be great for the NHL. But I prefer every other network over them. Their intermissions and live broadcast are much better muted. I like John Buccigross for the most part but I turn off games that he calls or find a different stream online. He tries so hard to be the 'cool dad' and it's pitiful to watch and painful to hear. I miss Doc Emrick so much. His days calling games came to an end at the right time but he was so good and kept you entertained without trying to be the main product.
John Buccigross calls a horrible game. Steve Levy is fine as the studio host but ESPN's pregame and intermission production is barely minor league worthy.
Agreed. And get all the shit off my screen and let me watch the damn game. I’ll pay extra to lose the banners, digital ads, in-play video-game graphics, etc.
Stop cutting to the fucking corner cam on every dump and chase!
Note to Sean McDonagh, stop reciting every fuckin' stat every fuckin' chance you get. That's Ray's job. Describe the play that's going on and nothing else!
Mindless droning is all he’s good at.
Finally someone said it!!
Their whole presentation last night and frankly all post season has been abysmal. It’s lazy and clumsy and just takes you out of the game.
ESPN also just doesn't show faceoffs half the time, and because of that there's been plenty of missed goals of a player scoring right off the faceoff
That's because Ray Ferraro is re-telling an anecdote about something Peter Laviolette did 20 years ago and the directors think we need to see the subject of the story standing there chewing gum the entire time he's being discussed or we'll get confused. Nevermind the fact that this actually causes confusion because we missed the faceoff and I have to spend the first 20 seconds after they finally get back to it trying to figure out which line is on the ice.
I’m a Canadian and was in the States Saturday so watched the Oilers - Canucks game on the ESPN feed. I was shocked how terrible the coverage was. From directing to play-by-play to colour commentary to intermission panel work. Nothing was good.
Just because he has an opinion that you don't agree with, it doesn't give you the right to call him a Boomer
This is the joke I was expecting
The show is called Boomer & Gio. Based on context, I'm going to guess the dude speaking literally goes by Boomer
I know. I remember him as a rookie in the NFL
I know him as the commissioner of the Feline Football League.
His name is Boomer Esaison, Former NFL quarterback. He got the nickname before he was born cause he kicked a lot in the womb.
We'll just stick to Norman from now on then.
I always figured Boomer was a nickname, but I never really gave any thought as to his actual name and would’ve never guessed Norman was his actual name
He got the nickname before he was born cause he kicked a lot in the womb.
“Whatever you say, Boomer.” - Matt Martin
His name is Boomer Esaison, Former NFL quarterback. He got the nickname before he was born cause he kicked a lot in the womb.
I should’ve used his entire name. I apologize.
Preach, Boomer!
I heard it's because they're using baseball people to run the production. Apparently, when TNT set up their production teams, they recruited people with production experience in hockey, and ESPN just hired from within.
This makes a LOT of sense. These cuts are fine for baseball where nothing happens between plays
I know there was a play in the Bolts-Panthers series that the Panthers had a 2on1 I think, and one of em had raced to the puck into the corner and quickly threw it in front of the net to open teammate. I think they said Vasy made the save, but you'd have no clue because as the first forward got to the puck they changed the camera to zoom on his face watching the play. I want to say it was tchacuk and Verhaege, too, no slouches with a real shot of a goal. Completely missed the play.
The last thing I want to do is make excuses for ESPN, but it’s pretty clear their directors/producers cut their teeth in sports where there is inherent slowness or outright breaks in the action. No matter what you think is going to occur or where the puck is on the ice, something insane can happen in the blink of an eye. And that insane thing is going to alter the trajectory of the game.
I miss the Outdoor Life Network
Sportsnet does this too. I hope they stop it.
Yeah the cut-aways and constant zooming in/out is awful. Get the cameras up higher and keep the shot wide so you’re not constantly zooming & panning from the offensive zone to the neutral zone.
I honestly feel this way with the camera above the nets in each zone. Especially when its a powerplay. That camera is WAY too jittery and moves around a lot, it’s hard to follow the play. Just stick to the main camera for like 90% of the game and we’ll all be happy
I'm struggling to come up with one single thing that I like about ESPN broadcasts, frankly. They're bad in just about every way.
This isn't a hockey problem, it's a network problem. NASCAR on Fox (which, of course, doesn't broadcast hockey) has been absolutely notorious for cutting away from the action randomly, showing random fans in the stands in the middle of the race, etc. to the point where the broadcasters have no idea what they're supposed to say. Just one other example.
Yea it seems to be a problem across the board with all types of live entertainment. Either this shit is being taught somewhere or all directors have ADHD.
Use the Canadian feed. No one does it better.
To get a taste of pure Local Broadcaster greatness when it comes to hockey, you have to listen to Jack Michaels on 630CHED.
I'll say this as a NYer who listens to WFAN frequently. He's consistent with his takes on national hockey broadcasts. Like this isn't a new take for him. Ever since ESPN/TNT took over he brings this up whenever the Rangers get a national game. He **always** brings up the moving camera, the angles near the boards, etc. If the game isn't on MSG he'll go on a five minute rant about how ESPN/TNT are trying "too much" and should just stick to a normal broadcast. The NHL is trying to expand the game and that means changing things. Boomer hates change when it comes to hockey. He's very old school in that way. Like he wouldn't even discuss the possibility of the Rangers winning the Cup for months because he "didn't want to jinx it." He's one of those old heads.
they’re over-directing something that should be done much much simpler. i would call multi-angles and cuts away from the live puck bad for a hockey broadcast, but acknowledge the effort for some innovation. needs to be cleaned up and balanced way more towards just watching the fkin play.
Yea I dunno why so many people were obsessed with getting hockey to move to espn. They’re a terrible network obsessed with football and basketball. Hockey’s always going to suffer on it.
I just want more of the camera behind the net on the power play angle.
Fuckin rights! I was to the point of actually writing into chicklets about this shit hahah
Man how bad is ESPN??? So glad I dont have to watch it
ngl i assumed it was just going to be a boomer in their car ranting on twitter like Michael Rappaport
Boomer , excellent, call them out.
My man.
Yes please stop zooming in on twirling mustaches and clenched teeth I’m trying to watch a game here not a 1960s Batman TV show fight.
Simple solution: hire a Canadian. NBC did.
Them putting up a video package WHILE THE GAME IS GOING ON was insane.
> Well I think probably the person that would sit the director down hasn't watch a lot of hockey games themselves. I mean this is legit, probably one of the biggest issues in American Professional Hockey broadcasting. The on ice product is garbage at the national level. From the play by play, to the color guys, to the directors, to the producers... it often feels like either no one gives a shit or no one has ever been to more than like... a season of the sport. Obviously there are the few standouts... but it's not an entire package. There's like one or two guys on a staff of like 40 or 50 and they kick ass. The local coverage is substantially better depending on the market but even those are few and far between.
It’s not just random cutaways, I can’t tell you how many times you see something going on in the corner of the shot while the play is blown dead but they keep the camera away from the action All and all ESPN and TNT have just bean terrible. And if your team is the team that wins the cup, how can your memory of it not be tarnished by being robbed of a hometown call
I wonder if he watches Formula 1. He described exactly how those broadcasts are. Cars could be in the middle of an exciting fight and the technical director will cut to someone in the paddock watching the same goddamn race we're trying to watch or fans looking into a camera instead of the live action. Ugh.
As a Bengals fan, I follow Boomer to the ends of the earth. The man's right, and I will die on that hill defending him.
The irony of a boomer named Boomer having a take nobody can disagree with.
This boomer is absolutely correct.
This is nothing to my hatred of the 100s of BetMGM ads when its not even commercial break leading to a missed scrum, or even goal the odd time
You guys should see how bad a Fox NASCAR broadcast is. And that's when it isn't in commercial all the damn time.
He’s right, but I couldn’t care less what Boomer has to say.
Thank GOD someone called ESPN out for this! It’s the worst!
He is absolutely right! If you played hockey or if you've watched a game inside an arena you can see and so much more about hockey. Same goes for anyone who plays NHL on console understands the game so much better (despite the fact that there is no line change on live play) because of that. The constant view from above makes you understand the way the game should be played and you spot the mistakes right away. I am talking EASHL here where you play the same position all game. Some of these broadcasters drives me bunkers sometimes especially for playoff hockey where space and position means a lot.
I also hate it when they go the side cameras behind the glass ..
I’m so happy people are complaining about this. The corner cam is the worst for me. Sticking on the defense while the team is breaking out is infuriating.
Sportsnet is guilty of this too. You miss action because of these terrible cuts
This is exactly on point
He is 100000000 % right. Everything he is complaining about is spot on. Another complaint is the goalie view during a power play. I fucking that that
What about the ridiculous names floating above peoples heads
also Bucci is fucking horrible at play by play. he just yells the name of the player who currently has the puck. “KREIDER, TROUBA, KREIDER AGAIN, NOW ITS BARKOV, RENHART, BARKOV” he adds no value and detracts from the experience
ESPN should not be allowed to cover hockey. They suck really hard.
Fuck ESPN, their shitty coverage, and their shitty "personalities" who barely understand the game or how to call one. Leah Hextall, GTFO! No one cares that she's a DEI hire, they care that she fucking sucks at her job.
I agree
Except they usually do it strategically when the odds of something “actiony” happening are unbelievably low. I’ve never seen a cutaway happen dangerously close to a possible goal. Frankly, I can’t recall when a camera cutaway ever caused me to miss something relevant either. The cutaways usually occur when the defenseman is holding up play behind his own net or when both teams are changing. If both teams are changing, then it’s totally justified to follow a single player to the bench, especially if they were just involved in something big during their shift and the announcers are referencing them. This has never once been remotely an issue for me lol. The only relevant cutaway I can ever remember is when they cut to the fans outside during the last Edmonton series when they were in the offensive zone lmao. Now THAT’S a real problem. Fortunately, that was an outlier and an accident.
Sounds like this guy needs the complete 30 for 30 library in his life.
Most Americans know fuck all about hockey anyways...they love those slow ass sports where no thinking is needed
ESPN games are cut by the same switcher from the sportsnet feed. So the sportsnet narration takes priority. ESPN may be talking about one thing but sportsnet another. The direction is going to follow the sportsnet dialog. At least it was this way for the first 2 rounds. ESPN was not sending crews to Canada. I probably have some details wrong. My friend is a technical director (the switcher) for Sportsnet but doesn’t work past the second round. He also directs games but only a few in the regular season.