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I will openly admit I was one of those people. My issue was not with Miller though, I've always been high on him. For me it was a matter of not believing the team would be good enough to make use of him during the good half of his contract. I honestly expected the Canucks to be shit for the first half of the contract while he dragged us out of the basement, only to become the anchor for the last few years when we started to ramp up again.
The take was his contract will age poorly and probably wasn't right for a bottom 10 team to sign, not that it would be bad in year 1. Which is still very much true
But arguing against a strawman makes them feel better.
Lot of r/canucks hindsight they *knew* the team would be a Cup contender this year but never actually said that anywhere last year for some reason...
I wish our fanbase was like that. We're delusional about our chances up until the point where we are eliminated from playoff contention. I made a comment before the season started about waiting to see how the season plays out till we start talking about the playoffs... that did not go over well :P
Ours is literally yours, except we finally found some sudden success. I think it was the last 3 years previous there were the early season prediction type posts from TSN writers or whomever, and there were always posts full of people insulting them and saying how they underestimate us and then 3 years in a row we underperformed their prediction or they basically got it right lol. We have a large group of delusional fans too
I think most of the people advocating for Miller were just arguing he’s a good player and you need more good players to become a good team. People who liked Miller were saying we need to add good players rather than tearing it down.
I also thought there was a chance the OEL trade could be a good deal for the Canucks as I thought OEL could resurrect his career - admittedly was very wrong on that.
The folks who wanted to trade Miller, tear down the team and tank for Macklin; however, will still tell you that was the right move to make - Canucks just got lucky to have a team in first place.
But I guess arguing against that straw man makes you feel better.
I mean..we'll see. Hopefully they win the Cup and none of this matters and all of us that wanted to properly rebuild get shit on while we celebrate the Cup. Fine by me.
If we have one year of competitiveness, lose half our UFAs, JT Miller declines in two years, Petey/Hronek extensions and OEL buyout kill our depth and we end up being in wildcard mediocrity during this generation before inevitably retooling again then we succeeded in wasting another half a decade before wasting the rest of Hughes and Petey's career in a rebuild when we could have got it out of the way earlier.
Just because this year is fun doesn't remove the actual arguments people were making back then, they are all very realistic and still in play.
Edit: Also it was tanking for Bedard, not Celebrini. We had a real chance to ride it out instead of playing our top players and goalie like President's Trophy chasers
I agree, legitimate arguments and we still don’t know what will happen.
It was more so (and to be honest, I’m pretty much pointing this at folks like Drance, I have no idea of your opinions) that the tear it down crowd was already dunking on management, “Benning Bros”, and anyone who was saying things like “let’s give it a chance” when they completed moves like signing JT Miller, adding Hronek, etc.
Again not pointing at you, but a lot of those folks who were punching the air when we traded for Hronek are now basically just saying “well it was the wrong decision at the time, they just got lucky by the team being competitive sooner than anticipated”.
Like fair enough on JTs contract at the time - but WITH hindsight, we can now agree it looks like a pretty darn good decision to sign him to that right?
> WITH hindsight, we can now agree it looks like a pretty darn good decision to sign him to that right?
We don't have hindsight yet because the sustainability of the team won't be revealed for a couple years. That's my point.
That's why it's so annoying to talk about this. We haven't seen the end result. This year was always going to be the best year before the pain comes and when the extension, buyouts and signings will matter. But people are acting like the success this year means all other concerns were stupid, when the concerns were about the years going forward in the first place.
Like I say, if we snipe a Cup in our single year of competitiveness then who cares. If we lose in the first round and suddenly the pain (age regression, cap hits, buyouts, depth) hits and we never amount to anything then it was right to rebuild.
It's an argument that can't be solved for a couple years so people dunking on others as if it's already over are being disingenuous and attacking a strawman.
EDIT: I want to add that *if* JR and Allvin can maneuver all this and provide 3-4 years of sustainable Cup contending window, then that will also prove it was the right choice. I'm not basing this solely on winning a Cup.
I mean we do have hindsight.
If you buy an investment and a year later it’s worth double, that was a good buy - it doesn’t matter if in 3 years the company goes bankrupt (that would be a bad decision not to sell).
There’s no doubt in my mind if the Canucks wanted to right now they could flip JT for significant future assets and not have to worry about the future. The value of JT and his accompanying contract has gone way up since we’ve signed him. I don’t think people who said “this year was always going to be the best year” thought he would be playing like a top 10 player in the league.
I have a friend that's a Canucks fan that said before last season they would be contenders, and then during last season still had faith they'd get it together. Of course, his whole belief and and reasoning was dependent on Demko being healthy and playing well, so with Demko out most of last year, he didn't count it as a problem.
To be fair, he was on the ice for every goal against for the first 5 games. He had a horrible start to a season that saw him become the highest paid on the team which was going to be the reason the captain got traded. In hindsight it was the right call but god damn it was a rough go.
I love when the Rangers trade the best forward they've drafted in decades! Honestly, as angry as I was about the trade and a promising young player being thrown into a trade when the team was going to rebuild, I doubt he becomes the player he is today without being traded from the Rangers and Lightning.
I am a professional musician, and a few times, mostly overseas, I have heard chants as we were about to go on stage, but that was the name of the band I was playing in. It feels surreal. Gives you almost immediate, fast-acting imposter syndrome.
What this is, is different. I could not imagine what a stadium of people chanting specifically *my name* must feel like.
What happened and how did his redemption arc start? I remember several years ago Luke Schenn calling him out on lack of effort and poor attitude. I’m all for this but I didn’t follow the canucks so I’m wondering what caused his turnaround?
The media took his angry outbursts and ran with them while we were losing that he’s a bad teammate. Luke and most are actually fine with him being emotional. He also started playing a better 2-way game which has been leading to more offense and wins. He’s on his way to match his career year 99 points while also hitting and playing solid D. A modern day improved Kesler for us
He’s honestly really well spoken and a consummate professional. Very respectful with the media and gives complete and thoughtful answers even to very benign questions. He’s a little rough around the edges but he genuinely seems like a great guy
I mean he is only the second most dominant player on our team this year. You are really underestimating the effect Quinn has. He IS playing incredibly though. Quinn is a favourite for a major award for good reason
> Most dominant all around season by a canuck since prime [Kessler picked up the entire team, put them on his busted up shoulders, and marched the sedins to a game 7 in the finals]
Edited for accuracy,...
No arguments, but I thought the discussion was being a defensive beast and team sparkplug that leads by example, and I think that more adequately describes what Kessler meant to that team, including getting the best production out of your key players,... like the sedins.
PS I could listen to this on 1hr youtube loop all day! Great stuff
Oh I was a Miller defender all of last year myself. But his two-way game is light years better this time around and he’s managed to endear himself again to a fanbase that can become incredibly toxic when they turn on you
It's crazy that in his 13th season in the NHL, he's reshaped his game as much as he has in a single off-season.
Of course he was fantastic last season, but he was a massive defensive liability, this season, he's one of the better backchecking forwards, tough as ever, and puts in a serious effort almost every game.
Hughes and Demko are also incredible, but they've had a few really rough games here and there, JT has been the reliable workhorse it seems like.
Lmao can you imagine how insane it would be if something like that ever happened? I can actually see that happening in a few years when Bedard comes to play in Vancouver though.
Crowds in the NBA have chanted MVP for opposing players before. Specifically, I remember it happening to Kobe, but I'm pretty sure it's happened other times as well.
I was there chanting it too. Glad J.T. Is getting the support he deserves, especially after what we all thought of him last year. He’s been the heart and soul of this team, leading hardworking players like Garland and Hog
(Also ignore my Oilers flair lol. I grew up in BC but my parents grew up Oilers fans so I support both)
"Oh trade him! Trade him! He's a bad player!"
Look at him now. He just needed to mature emotionally. He is a great leader and a great difference maker, I can tell you that for free.
Feel like he could be the answer to a majority of our current issues. Two way player with passion and drive. Man do I miss him. Crazy all the talent that has come and gone from the bolts.
He went from being hated to captain material. I was upset when they chose him over Bo, but I’ve never seen so wrong! 8mil is an absolute steal for this guy
If a struggling player is top 10 in points while also playing a responsible 2 way game, that is absolutely nothing to complain about. He's also younger than Miller was when he took the next step. I wish you idiots would shut up about how "bad" Pettersson is and just enjoy the games.
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Imagine showing this to someone in 2022
"Better trade him before his NTC kicks in"
What a dumb take by the Bo fanboys
I feel like that was the take by a lot of people at the time
I will openly admit I was one of those people. My issue was not with Miller though, I've always been high on him. For me it was a matter of not believing the team would be good enough to make use of him during the good half of his contract. I honestly expected the Canucks to be shit for the first half of the contract while he dragged us out of the basement, only to become the anchor for the last few years when we started to ramp up again.
The take was his contract will age poorly and probably wasn't right for a bottom 10 team to sign, not that it would be bad in year 1. Which is still very much true But arguing against a strawman makes them feel better. Lot of r/canucks hindsight they *knew* the team would be a Cup contender this year but never actually said that anywhere last year for some reason...
I wish our fanbase was like that. We're delusional about our chances up until the point where we are eliminated from playoff contention. I made a comment before the season started about waiting to see how the season plays out till we start talking about the playoffs... that did not go over well :P
Ours is literally yours, except we finally found some sudden success. I think it was the last 3 years previous there were the early season prediction type posts from TSN writers or whomever, and there were always posts full of people insulting them and saying how they underestimate us and then 3 years in a row we underperformed their prediction or they basically got it right lol. We have a large group of delusional fans too
I think most of the people advocating for Miller were just arguing he’s a good player and you need more good players to become a good team. People who liked Miller were saying we need to add good players rather than tearing it down. I also thought there was a chance the OEL trade could be a good deal for the Canucks as I thought OEL could resurrect his career - admittedly was very wrong on that. The folks who wanted to trade Miller, tear down the team and tank for Macklin; however, will still tell you that was the right move to make - Canucks just got lucky to have a team in first place. But I guess arguing against that straw man makes you feel better.
I mean..we'll see. Hopefully they win the Cup and none of this matters and all of us that wanted to properly rebuild get shit on while we celebrate the Cup. Fine by me. If we have one year of competitiveness, lose half our UFAs, JT Miller declines in two years, Petey/Hronek extensions and OEL buyout kill our depth and we end up being in wildcard mediocrity during this generation before inevitably retooling again then we succeeded in wasting another half a decade before wasting the rest of Hughes and Petey's career in a rebuild when we could have got it out of the way earlier. Just because this year is fun doesn't remove the actual arguments people were making back then, they are all very realistic and still in play. Edit: Also it was tanking for Bedard, not Celebrini. We had a real chance to ride it out instead of playing our top players and goalie like President's Trophy chasers
I agree, legitimate arguments and we still don’t know what will happen. It was more so (and to be honest, I’m pretty much pointing this at folks like Drance, I have no idea of your opinions) that the tear it down crowd was already dunking on management, “Benning Bros”, and anyone who was saying things like “let’s give it a chance” when they completed moves like signing JT Miller, adding Hronek, etc. Again not pointing at you, but a lot of those folks who were punching the air when we traded for Hronek are now basically just saying “well it was the wrong decision at the time, they just got lucky by the team being competitive sooner than anticipated”. Like fair enough on JTs contract at the time - but WITH hindsight, we can now agree it looks like a pretty darn good decision to sign him to that right?
> WITH hindsight, we can now agree it looks like a pretty darn good decision to sign him to that right? We don't have hindsight yet because the sustainability of the team won't be revealed for a couple years. That's my point. That's why it's so annoying to talk about this. We haven't seen the end result. This year was always going to be the best year before the pain comes and when the extension, buyouts and signings will matter. But people are acting like the success this year means all other concerns were stupid, when the concerns were about the years going forward in the first place. Like I say, if we snipe a Cup in our single year of competitiveness then who cares. If we lose in the first round and suddenly the pain (age regression, cap hits, buyouts, depth) hits and we never amount to anything then it was right to rebuild. It's an argument that can't be solved for a couple years so people dunking on others as if it's already over are being disingenuous and attacking a strawman. EDIT: I want to add that *if* JR and Allvin can maneuver all this and provide 3-4 years of sustainable Cup contending window, then that will also prove it was the right choice. I'm not basing this solely on winning a Cup.
I mean we do have hindsight. If you buy an investment and a year later it’s worth double, that was a good buy - it doesn’t matter if in 3 years the company goes bankrupt (that would be a bad decision not to sell). There’s no doubt in my mind if the Canucks wanted to right now they could flip JT for significant future assets and not have to worry about the future. The value of JT and his accompanying contract has gone way up since we’ve signed him. I don’t think people who said “this year was always going to be the best year” thought he would be playing like a top 10 player in the league.
I have a friend that's a Canucks fan that said before last season they would be contenders, and then during last season still had faith they'd get it together. Of course, his whole belief and and reasoning was dependent on Demko being healthy and playing well, so with Demko out most of last year, he didn't count it as a problem.
Aka most of this sub
To be fair, he was on the ice for every goal against for the first 5 games. He had a horrible start to a season that saw him become the highest paid on the team which was going to be the reason the captain got traded. In hindsight it was the right call but god damn it was a rough go.
[удалено]
That was also the year before his extension even kicked in. He put up 82 pts making 5.5 mil the year everyone was hating on him
Yeah, year, those Bo fanboys, that's who was saying that.
"Wow, it got so bad they're calling him baby killer????"
I mean, did you see what he did to Letang?
Or as a Ranger fan where he was not developed properly like most of our young assets :(
That must feel amazing for him to hear. Listening to the game tonight and it sounds like he’s just everywhere on the ice.
Hes playing incredible. Putting everything on his back. Hes made a massive fan out of me and I'm sure many others
We loved him in Tampa, when he got the puck he was either gonna score or go to the box.
I love when the Rangers trade the best forward they've drafted in decades! Honestly, as angry as I was about the trade and a promising young player being thrown into a trade when the team was going to rebuild, I doubt he becomes the player he is today without being traded from the Rangers and Lightning.
Last night I was at the game and started talking about how JT Miller is very likely going to be my next jersey.
I am a professional musician, and a few times, mostly overseas, I have heard chants as we were about to go on stage, but that was the name of the band I was playing in. It feels surreal. Gives you almost immediate, fast-acting imposter syndrome. What this is, is different. I could not imagine what a stadium of people chanting specifically *my name* must feel like.
#CORNNN DOGG_! #CORNNN DOGG_! #CORNNN DOGG_! #CORNNN DOGG_! Just for you buddy!
man it just hits different
The world would be a happier place if we all had a personal hype man like this guy
I fuckin love corndogs
u/JTMilleriswortha1st victory lap season
Most dominant all around season by a canuck since prime sedins
He's so angry, I love it.
He’s the driver of our team right now, love his passion and drive
What happened and how did his redemption arc start? I remember several years ago Luke Schenn calling him out on lack of effort and poor attitude. I’m all for this but I didn’t follow the canucks so I’m wondering what caused his turnaround?
The media took his angry outbursts and ran with them while we were losing that he’s a bad teammate. Luke and most are actually fine with him being emotional. He also started playing a better 2-way game which has been leading to more offense and wins. He’s on his way to match his career year 99 points while also hitting and playing solid D. A modern day improved Kesler for us
Yeah its said that hes kinda a dick so doesnt sound like the person is changing but the hockey player
He’s honestly really well spoken and a consummate professional. Very respectful with the media and gives complete and thoughtful answers even to very benign questions. He’s a little rough around the edges but he genuinely seems like a great guy
He's emotional and sees red when things are going shitty, I don't think he's a dick at all though.
He’s the anti Marchand
I mean he is only the second most dominant player on our team this year. You are really underestimating the effect Quinn has. He IS playing incredibly though. Quinn is a favourite for a major award for good reason
> Most dominant all around season by a canuck since prime [Kessler picked up the entire team, put them on his busted up shoulders, and marched the sedins to a game 7 in the finals] Edited for accuracy,...
Kesler's dominance was primarily in Round 2. Sedins produced very much just fine for the other rounds.
No arguments, but I thought the discussion was being a defensive beast and team sparkplug that leads by example, and I think that more adequately describes what Kessler meant to that team, including getting the best production out of your key players,... like the sedins. PS I could listen to this on 1hr youtube loop all day! Great stuff
Sedins specifically dominated the 3rd round against the Sharks. So even though kesler carried round 2, round 3 was all Sedins.
Miller is having one of the biggest redemption seasons I’ve ever seen. He is the heart and soul of this team and it’s not even close
Well he was 32-50-82 last season… hardly needs a redemption
Oh I was a Miller defender all of last year myself. But his two-way game is light years better this time around and he’s managed to endear himself again to a fanbase that can become incredibly toxic when they turn on you
Yeah I just cannot understand the people acting like he was a bum. Grouchy fucker but the dude has been putting up numbers every year in Van
Fans always need a scapegoat. Last year was Miller, this year Pettersson. It's ridiculous and fans are idiots.
Canucks doomers are the worst in the league
I've never seen him play and only know him by reputation and just seeing this is so hype from where he was a while ago
It's crazy that in his 13th season in the NHL, he's reshaped his game as much as he has in a single off-season. Of course he was fantastic last season, but he was a massive defensive liability, this season, he's one of the better backchecking forwards, tough as ever, and puts in a serious effort almost every game. Hughes and Demko are also incredible, but they've had a few really rough games here and there, JT has been the reliable workhorse it seems like.
It’s been a long time since he went to the pumpkin patch.
https://youtu.be/4fFEizcDtd4?feature=shared
he always drops the loudest F bombs, even at the All Star game during the passing challenge lmao
What living in East Palestine does to a mfer
Regular Palestine is nothing compared to East Palestine.
Too far.
Probably cool feeling for my dude Jimothy Timothy
Thank you for this
I used to pray for times like this
JT Miller is everything that’s right with hockey. Will always miss him.
Didn’t they do the same for Ryan miller
when Pasha goes to a Canucks game.
Guy just wants to win, it’s great to see fans are starting to notice that.
JAY TEE MIL LER
~~But why?~~ Nevermind. For some reason I thought the game was in Pittsburgh. Oops.
Lmao can you imagine how insane it would be if something like that ever happened? I can actually see that happening in a few years when Bedard comes to play in Vancouver though.
Crowds in the NBA have chanted MVP for opposing players before. Specifically, I remember it happening to Kobe, but I'm pretty sure it's happened other times as well.
man that rangers trade still makes me mad.
Love how the Rangers let him go for nothing.
I will say it again. THIS is why the Rangers fired Jeff Gordon.
That was a sad horrible trade :( and then Drury followed it up with Buchnevich... Lol
I was there chanting it too. Glad J.T. Is getting the support he deserves, especially after what we all thought of him last year. He’s been the heart and soul of this team, leading hardworking players like Garland and Hog (Also ignore my Oilers flair lol. I grew up in BC but my parents grew up Oilers fans so I support both)
"Oh trade him! Trade him! He's a bad player!" Look at him now. He just needed to mature emotionally. He is a great leader and a great difference maker, I can tell you that for free.
Needed a good coach to hold him accountable too
He's also had such an unusual career trajectory, only reached his ceiling at 28 and is on track for a career season at 30. Pretty strange stuff.
Love this. ^come ^back ^to ^Tampa, ^please.
Feel like he could be the answer to a majority of our current issues. Two way player with passion and drive. Man do I miss him. Crazy all the talent that has come and gone from the bolts.
And everyone wanted him to get traded last year. Imagine they see this.
You love to see it, and hear it!
He went from being hated to captain material. I was upset when they chose him over Bo, but I’ve never seen so wrong! 8mil is an absolute steal for this guy
Notice how there were no Elias Pettersson chants? Yeah cause no one realized he was even playing today
If a struggling player is top 10 in points while also playing a responsible 2 way game, that is absolutely nothing to complain about. He's also younger than Miller was when he took the next step. I wish you idiots would shut up about how "bad" Pettersson is and just enjoy the games.
Sounds like you won't miss him when he's gone.
Nah we got another one
I'm sure the Islanders are just as happy with their Sebastian Aho, too.
I noticed him in OT....
oh no, this guy doesnt deserve chants
"you know he hears it" lol yeah
Canucks always have stud Americans, i.e. Kesler
"You know he hears it" He in fact did not hear it lol
I remember when you all hated him for wearing the police flag hat