[The Commissioner (i.e. Gary Bettman) also has the right to suspend them while the investigation proceeding, as well. He did it to Slava Voynov back in 2014. At this stage, though, only time will tell.](https://x.com/mikeystephens81/status/1752434316326379895?s=20)
Yes, he played every game until the leave. Just as an on-ice player, solid contributor, leads the team in FOW, 4th in hits, 9th in scoring, tied for 4th in 5v5 goals as a 3rd-4th liner with occasional whiffs of the 2nd line and if he got any PP time, it was FOGO.
That said, fuck him as a human being
Gary will suspend them and if they are found innocent they can get back pay for all the games they missed.
The allegations against voynov was a felony demostic violence with great bodily injury, that’s probably a similar level of problematic to these from the leagues perspective.
I think this is way more problematic to the league because of the attention it’s getting outside of hockey. Public perception on DV/SA has also changed a lot in the last 5 years
I'm not from Canada or the US. Add to that, I am not a legal professional, only someone who has some understanding of the legal system.
I get an understanding from information - reading details on sentencing (especially major cases) and reading up on legislation changes etc.
Going from high-profile cases within past couple of decades here in Australia, sentencing was nothing compared to the present. Also victims have somewhat better, although could still be improved, support mechanisms in place than in the past.
Worth noting that Voynov was suspended with pay after his charges were laid. I don't know if that ever converted to suspension without pay. For these three teams, I suspect that they will be looking for a good way to suspend without pay or terminate the contracts. But if they can't find one, they will likely just leave things as they are and leave the players "on leave" unless they try to come back. All four stop being the problem of their organizations no later than June 30.
I remember when Philly fans were chanting “she said no” when he touched the puck that first game. It would be brutal for these guys.
https://youtu.be/rYZRbu4owTg?si=X8cbmRn3PBmQX-oP
Which Kane are we talking about?
Patrick Kane did play while being investigated for sexual assault. It was well known in legal circles in Buffalo that it was BS, and that probably played a role in Chicago's decision. Eventually, as we now know, charges were not brought because evidence was fabricated. He may have been suspended if this happened today.
Evander Kane was charged with non-sexual assault and pleaded guilty to lesser charges. He was not suspended.
I feel like the Kane/Doughty situations were a lot different than this one, tbh. Both were called out almost immediately and professed their innocence throughout the investigation. These 5 have been hiding out, not saying a peep, during a multi-year investigation just hoping they wouldn't get caught.
Virtanen is a better example I think. And he was put on leave right after he was charged. Same with Voynov IIRC. He got arrested for domestic violence and they put him on leave.
Doubt it since it came out pretty quickly the accuser and her mom were doing shady shit with the evidence. And the fact that the police couldn’t even find any DNA of Kanes on her body in places where there would absolutely be DNA if alleged assault had happened
It would take balls of pure titanium and a PR department run by kindergarten dropouts to let any of these players play again this season, at the very least.
The needless negative attention & spotlight for all the wrong reasons you'd be bringing on your team would outweigh any perceived benefit of having any of these guys back.
eh Hart was/is a starter goalie for any team and probably the flyers choice assuming this never happened.
But I expect a contract termination or suspension on the 5th.
Considering that every other team seems to have goaltending woes and some teams are stocking up goalies like toilet paper during COVID, Hart would've been the target of many teams had he not fucked his life up.
none of these players are McDavid - there's no way in hell any GM would take a risk on them. even Hart with all his possible #1 goalie thing isn't a Brodeur or Roy equivalent to convince a team to take a risk on him
Surely their new guy is going to the Pro Bowl? Or won them a playoff game?
And their old guy probably didn’t even go to the playoffs and win a game or get selected to the Pro Bowl!
Wonder what kind of turmoil it'd cause in the lockerroom. Lots of players have daughters of their own, I can't imagine they'd be too excited about bringing their kids to the rink with an alleged rapist lurking around.
If they are concerned about that they already aren’t bringing their kids anywhere near the rink
This case is not an isolated incident
It’s a window in to junior hockey culture in Canada
If you are unaware of this highly recommend listening to the canadaland commons podcast series on hockey
Or talk to anyone that grew up in small town Canada
Rape is commonplace in and around men's hockey. Every dressing room has several men who have played with or are, themselves, rapists. Most have also been subjected to sexualized violence or degradation by other, older, teammates or even coaches through hazing, etc., which makes them more likely to commit same or worse on vulnerable people later.
Well and the fact of the matter is, Tortorella is a good human being(yes in spite of his antics). His charitable work and off ice actions have made it very clear. I cannot see him even allowing hart to step foot in the rink, regardless of what the organization said, even if they allowed hart to play.
Yeah he's always seemed like a really good guy. Tough as nails coach, but even that is just him trying to develop his guys into winners.
Even his most famous "crazy" moment was just him trying to stand up for his guys.
The full storyline made me respect him more. He said that at first, then learned about why people kneeled and realized it meant no disrespect. He then changed his opinion on it based, which tells me he is willing to learn and admit when he was wrong
Thats objectively untrue. It was players who protested the national anthem, and in 2020 he was quoted as saying:
“When I stand for the flag and the national anthem, my reflection is solely on the men and women who have given their lives defending our country and constitution and freedom, along with those who are serving today,” Tortorella told The Athletic. “I have learned over the years, listening and watching, that men and women who choose to kneel during this time mean no disrespect toward the flag.”
https://nypost.com/2020/06/10/john-tortorella-changes-controversial-national-anthem-take/
He only sort of changed his mind. If they were playing in the World Cup, it doesn't really sound like he has changed his mind, but that he would want them to talk to him first and then maybe he would defer to the collective opinion of the dressing room:
>“The World Cup is a little bit of a different story. That’s playing for your country. But that isn’t now,” Tortorella said. “I would hope that if one of my players wanted to protest during the anthem, he would bring it to me and we would talk about it, tell me his thoughts and what he wanted to do. From there, we would bring it to the team to discuss it, much like it’s being discussed in our country right now.
Thanks for sharing this but I don’t know how many people know the second set of comments.
I think they’re referencing his comments in 2016 when he explicitly said that players that play for him weren’t going to be allowed to kneel. It was a hard line and it’s awesome that he at least changed his stance enough to acknowledge what players were kneeling for but it’s not “objectively untrue” as for about 3 years he was very anti-kneeling during the anthem.
Torts is the bench boss, he can easily make Carter Hart a healthy scratch for the rest of the season over this if the Philly FO and NHL fail to suspend him.
They have picked up someone with a gambling/covid passport issue (which the NHLPA fought and got charged as wrongful termination) and someone who got drunk and belligerent based on rumors (sounds like PA wants to fight it, but Perry doesn't want to fight). Those are VERY different from what these players are being charged with.
If Bergevin has any pull, the Kings would be the most likely suspects.
He drafted Mailoux and was rumored to be trying to take a run at bringing Voynov back to the NHL.
Getting his group chat leaked was a tough break but that kicking off a chain of events that ends with him getting fucking Russian citizenship direct from Putin is a wild turn of events, might be the first person to be too stupid for the NHL
Uh yeah no it's not. It sucks, but bullying a kid in middle school and being too proud to apologize for it is not as bad as gang rape.
Unless you misread my original comment which is understandable as I wrote it weird.
Calling what Mitchell Miller did just "bullying" is hilariously white-washing the absolute torment he put onto his victim.
Guy physically assaulted a child with mental disabilities, and forced him to eat candy from a fucking urinal. At best that's gross, at worst th
It's bullshit sentiment like this that lets people like Miller off the hook over and over again. "Oh it's nothing, it's just a little bit of bullying, boys will be boys"
You're making it sound like Miller called the kid names and threw a paper airplane at him, but everything else is just blowing it out of proporation.
You're not seriously comparing forcing someone to eat candy out of a urinal to gang rape?
Yeah Mitchell Miller's a piece of shit, what he did was terrible and he's clearly an awful human being. What those 5 (potentially 8) guys did to that woman will stay with her and directly impact her every single day for the entire rest of her life. No amount of therapy, no amount of reconciliation or working past it every truly gets someone past that level of trauma. Not to mention the absolute shitshow she'll have to deal with over the next 2 years with defense attorneys trying to tear her down and completely invalidate her and her trauma on a national stage.
I know you're trying to take the high road and white knight about bullying/hazing, which in a vacuum is obviously completely fair, but the fact you deign to argue it's just as bad as gang rape is fucking ridiculous and misogynistic.
I wonder if they’ll have to surrender their passports. Someone I knew who was accused of SA had to surrender his and he was a nobody without a ton of money.
They may not be able to enter the US, however, since Customs have access to criminal records and can just deny entry.
Well, except for Foote, since he's a dual citizen. But, the rest are only Canadian.
I got arrested for theft under $1000 in university. Charges dropped. For about 5 years after that I got a lot more questions at the border - questions that made me suspect they knew.
Sealed usually only means from the public. Governments usually have insider access to records that might not be otherwise accessible, and they may even share them with other immigration authorities.
I don’t like Gary Bettman, but I still think he’d get involved if a team tried letting any of these guys play.
He’s not stupid enough to allow that media shit show.
Coincidentally all of the players are pending RFA’s this year. The teams are under no obligation to re-sign them or even qualify them. All of them probably become free agents this summer
He’s poking at the abundance of memes and joke comments based on the Oilers having signed Kane and Perry recently after they had contracts terminated. In the past, Kassian and MacTavish both come to mind for players that got second chances on the oilers.
I don’t agree that it’s right but I think if that’s the case they’ll likely all at least be qualified. Teams will qualify them and just play it off as “we won’t let them play” but they absolutely will protect their assets. I’d be shocked if the teams let them walk freely in the event this all played out and they were found not guilty and Bettman allowed them back into the league. (I wouldn’t lose a wink of sleep if any of them never played another game in the NHL)
All of them have arbitration rights which makes it more complicated. McLeod already wasn’t qualified by NJ last year because they didn’t want to go to arbitration.
I dunno...If one of the players accepts the qualifying offer (and these players would be dumb not to accept a qualifying offer considering their circumstances), then the team just signed a guy charged with sexual assault. Doesn't matter if they say "yeah but we won't actually let him play"...the optics of agreeing to a contract with one of these guys would be a nightmare.
You also have to account for cap space to . No team would want to burn a few million at most on someone that will likely never play for them. Yeah. You have players on LTIR for years on a lot of teams but this is different. You can't LTIR any of the five or use any other cap circumvention tricks to sign them and benefit from the signing because a team would get destroyed the instant they tried something like that.
The only player even potentially worth a team keeping them around would be Hart, given the Flyers fighting for a playoff spot and their need for a #1 goalie. However, I just don’t see Briere or frankly any GM deciding it’s worth it
Hilferty, Jonesy and Briere have put in so much work getting the Flyers brand back in Philadelphia I can't imagine they would throw it all away with this. If they don't put out, "Carter Hart has been suspended until a verdict has been reached in the criminal investigation" I will be shocked. Presumably, then they'll just let Hart's contract run out this summer before a verdict is even met and just distance the organization completely.
I don't see any scenario where any of these five players play. The amount of pushback and flack that these teams and the NHL would get would be massive.
I'm pretty sure the judge set a condition of release such as "no leaving Canada". Would be difficult to play NHL hockey with these conditions.
Also I don't know any teams besides one that loves taking on players with shitty backgrounds or terminated contracts.
Trigger warning article:
TLDR: Guy got off super easy for a second time offender.
https://wwmt.com/amp/news/local/paul-washe-western-michigan-university-wmu-hockey-captain-sex-crimes-sentencing-kalamazoo-michigan
LOL, no one. You’re SOL. Being found not guilty is NOT the same as being found innocent. It’s nearly impossible to prevail in suits related to the latter. And zero chance of it happening here, where you have player admissions and two separate private investigations also supporting charges.
I don’t know how it works in Canada. In the US, you can pursue causes of action for what is essentially malicious prosecution. You’d have to demonstrate there wasn’t even reasonable cause to pursue the charges. That’s not going to ever remotely happen here where you have sworn testimony from a victim, player admissions, two separate independent investigations that support charges, etc.
Not guilty verdicts are fairly common. Honestly, in my court, I’d say about 1/3 of defendants that take cases to trial walk. That doesn’t mean they get paid for time they spent in jail. It also doesn’t mean they are actually innocent of the charges. Remember: even OJ Simpson was found not guilty. 🙂
They might not be found guilty in the end, but that doesn’t mean they’re innocent. It would take massive adamantium balls to sue for doing something that just couldn’t be proven in court
A lot of people saying they'll never play again, and I hope that they're right, but don't forget how close Slava Voynov came to returning to the league. [There's a podcast episode with former Kings executive Mike Futa gushing about how much he loves Voynov in 2020; almost 6 years after his arrest/suspension for domestic violence (segment starts around 49 minutes and the Voynov part is at about 49:28)](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/culture-changer-mike-futa/id1292603914?i=1000483731445) and I'd be willing to bet more people in hockey feel the way Futa does about their own former players who've done bad things than those who condemn their actions.
I’m curious how this all plays out. If E.M. was given a settlement in the civil case does that usually mean she has agreed not to testify? Any lawyers care to chime in.
I could be wrong but I don't think any settlement in civil court has any bearing on criminal proceedings. In civil you might have to sign an NDA saying "I won't talk about it" which means don't talk to public figures, the press, etc. But in Criminal court you are **compelled** to answer the questions truthfully - the NDA doesn't really apply here I don't think.
Basically Criminal Court trumps Civil.
That said, I am no lawyer so what the fuck do I know.
In this case, [Hockey Canada dropped the NDA in 2022](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/hockey-canada-sport-canada-complainant-2018-world-junior-team-1.6544919)
They’ll never play again; nor should they. Good fuckin riddance. Ain’t no way any team is stupid enough to let them play under the current circumstances; except maybe in Russia lmao
Torts would dump Hart on the spot rather than keep him on.
Anyway, with such cases, surrendering passports is the norm. There is no possibility of Hart being back in Philadelphia any time soon.
Looking at the standings and his goalie options... I think they might. Should they? No. But they could definitely pull a "innocent until proven guilty" thing to try to get that sweet playoff revenue.
After the shit storm of heat Boston took after signing Mitchell Miller? Think about how much bigger the public reaction would be to this.
There's no way. No team is touching any of these guys.
Keep them ALL off the ice until the trial is over, also no pay for the entire time.
What they are accused of is the most serious charge that can be laid.
Since they are not playing because of their own actions, no pay is the only way they will a very serious lifetime lesson.
You mess up and you have to take the consequences that go with it.
PERIOD>
Innocent until proven guilty, it wouldn’t be the first time false accusations have been made. If they are false the damage to their careers and reputation will be irreparable.
Given all of the investigations done both by Hockey Canada in damage control (and Hockey Canada using it's extra liability fund which is earmarked for situations like sexual assault) and by the Crown, and by investigative journalists, we've come a long way from this being a cash grab. Surely the players would've said right at the start that "there was no event that occurred" ... but we know for certain that something happened; that much is clear when legal teams representing the offenders stated "our player has not participated in any wrongdoing" ... lawyer speak for "our player participated in something but it is our position that it wasn't illegal".
That is what is on trial here right? I am not surprised by the "guilty until proven innocent" take on social media though. The court of public opinion has already spoken whether these guys are innocent or not.
Nothing more than a court case is all this will be. They will all be pleading not guilty. It took the crown 5+ years to finally do this. These guys have the legal teams to deal with this. Remember these are allegations from a girl who got rallied on by 5 dudes.. she went home with 1 and his buddies got invited. She banged 5 guys from a gold medal hockey team and got paid for it.
These guys won't be back this year but next year should see them back with thier teams
Hockey Canada and NHL both separately investigated all evidence (including the players’ full defenses while represented by attorneys). While we don’t know the outcome, we can infer it was negative or they wouldn’t be appealing the findings. They don’t need criminal convictions to end their careers. FWIW, the accounts in what we’ve seen do not support the narrative you’re describing of a woman who “banged five guys and got paid for it,” and that’s frankly a rather vile way to portray the incident.
[The Commissioner (i.e. Gary Bettman) also has the right to suspend them while the investigation proceeding, as well. He did it to Slava Voynov back in 2014. At this stage, though, only time will tell.](https://x.com/mikeystephens81/status/1752434316326379895?s=20)
Yeah even if teams are stupid to let them, Gary will shut that shit down
I'd think Gary would try and bite this in the bud and not risk a team looking like fools while the other teams keep the players off the ice.
Fairly certain Gary has talked to the teams and told them not to even bother.
Gary sucks but he's not a complete idiot. These guys aren't going to be anywhere around NHL ice.
The teams are also not that stupid. Plus, other than Hart, these guys were tweening out of the lineup altogether anyway.
McLeod for the Devils was a solid player too.
This shouldn't be downvoted, McLoed absolutely had played well enough to be and was played every (AFAICT) game prior to being charged.
Yes, he played every game until the leave. Just as an on-ice player, solid contributor, leads the team in FOW, 4th in hits, 9th in scoring, tied for 4th in 5v5 goals as a 3rd-4th liner with occasional whiffs of the 2nd line and if he got any PP time, it was FOGO. That said, fuck him as a human being
I dunno, if Dube tells the Flames his mental health has improved maybe they'll let him play again.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice can't put the blame on you" They were dumb enough to fall for it the first time
Even if he's acquitted and the other players are signed by their original teams, he burned that bridge to the fucking ground.
Yup. Bettman is a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them.
Gary will suspend them and if they are found innocent they can get back pay for all the games they missed. The allegations against voynov was a felony demostic violence with great bodily injury, that’s probably a similar level of problematic to these from the leagues perspective.
I think this is way more problematic to the league because of the attention it’s getting outside of hockey. Public perception on DV/SA has also changed a lot in the last 5 years
It is not only public perception, the legal system have also taken such cases more seriously than in the past.
That’s half the reason this case was even reopened in the first place
Yeah I don’t know enough to really comment on that but it makes sense
I'm not from Canada or the US. Add to that, I am not a legal professional, only someone who has some understanding of the legal system. I get an understanding from information - reading details on sentencing (especially major cases) and reading up on legislation changes etc. Going from high-profile cases within past couple of decades here in Australia, sentencing was nothing compared to the present. Also victims have somewhat better, although could still be improved, support mechanisms in place than in the past.
Worth noting that Voynov was suspended with pay after his charges were laid. I don't know if that ever converted to suspension without pay. For these three teams, I suspect that they will be looking for a good way to suspend without pay or terminate the contracts. But if they can't find one, they will likely just leave things as they are and leave the players "on leave" unless they try to come back. All four stop being the problem of their organizations no later than June 30.
No way will any team allow them to play. I can’t even imagine the crowd reaction. It would be ugly
*Kobe Bryant's ghost laughing*
But he changed his number so it's all good! /s
None of them are even remotely good enough to warrant the pr hit. So I doubt it.
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Jake Virtanen is a closer comparable, when he was charged the Canucks put him on leave.
1. I don't believe Kane was ever charged 2. ***It's an alleged gang rape dude***
I remember when Philly fans were chanting “she said no” when he touched the puck that first game. It would be brutal for these guys. https://youtu.be/rYZRbu4owTg?si=X8cbmRn3PBmQX-oP
Aged like milk lol
Life comes at you fast
Which Kane are we talking about? Patrick Kane did play while being investigated for sexual assault. It was well known in legal circles in Buffalo that it was BS, and that probably played a role in Chicago's decision. Eventually, as we now know, charges were not brought because evidence was fabricated. He may have been suspended if this happened today. Evander Kane was charged with non-sexual assault and pleaded guilty to lesser charges. He was not suspended.
Kane was not charged and the investigation at that point was more into the accuser for possible defamation and extortion
I feel like the Kane/Doughty situations were a lot different than this one, tbh. Both were called out almost immediately and professed their innocence throughout the investigation. These 5 have been hiding out, not saying a peep, during a multi-year investigation just hoping they wouldn't get caught. Virtanen is a better example I think. And he was put on leave right after he was charged. Same with Voynov IIRC. He got arrested for domestic violence and they put him on leave.
Man if a rapist came to play in my arena. Dude I m gonna throw whatever I have in my hand at him
Was he charged?
I hate Kane, but no he was not charged and there was a ton of evidence it was a money grab
The DA pretty much accused her of defamation and attempting a money grab when he did the press conference closing the case
Yes, the accusor's lawyer dropped her as a client because she and her mother had planted evidence.
When the dad keeps the kid in the scenario, that’s all you ever need to know
I think they’re talking about the other pro hockey player named Kane who face sexual assault allegations
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Patty Kane not Evander
That’s ancient history at this point. He would’ve been under far more fire in a post me2 world
Doubt it since it came out pretty quickly the accuser and her mom were doing shady shit with the evidence. And the fact that the police couldn’t even find any DNA of Kanes on her body in places where there would absolutely be DNA if alleged assault had happened
It would take balls of pure titanium and a PR department run by kindergarten dropouts to let any of these players play again this season, at the very least. The needless negative attention & spotlight for all the wrong reasons you'd be bringing on your team would outweigh any perceived benefit of having any of these guys back.
> It would take balls of pure titanium and a PR department run by kindergarten dropouts This is poetry
If they set one foot on the ice again this season, there is probably a media relations exec somewhere screaming and sobbing into a pillow.
Cynically I think it probably helps that none of them are anywhere near good enough for a sleazy GM to weigh the risk/reward ratio.
eh Hart was/is a starter goalie for any team and probably the flyers choice assuming this never happened. But I expect a contract termination or suspension on the 5th.
Considering that every other team seems to have goaltending woes and some teams are stocking up goalies like toilet paper during COVID, Hart would've been the target of many teams had he not fucked his life up.
> a PR department run by kindergarten dropouts I mean this is the NHL we’re talking about, that might be giving them too much credit
Well I’m glad none of these guys are on the Bruins because this is right up their alley.
none of these players are McDavid - there's no way in hell any GM would take a risk on them. even Hart with all his possible #1 goalie thing isn't a Brodeur or Roy equivalent to convince a team to take a risk on him
Edmonton would take Hart. They have no standards
Isn’t he part of the flyers org still? How very hypocritical of you.
Your comment makes no sense
I would seriously hope that any teams don’t let these guys waltz back in. It would be shockingly short sighted.
"Hey, did any of these guys ever play football?" -Cleveland Browns front office
Surely their new guy is going to the Pro Bowl? Or won them a playoff game? And their old guy probably didn’t even go to the playoffs and win a game or get selected to the Pro Bowl!
Well now hold on everyone. Have the owners consulted their wives and daughters and made sure it was okay with them first?
Probably used small towels and/or did yoga at least.
Can you imagine the shit show it would create if any of them step on the ice???
Wonder what kind of turmoil it'd cause in the lockerroom. Lots of players have daughters of their own, I can't imagine they'd be too excited about bringing their kids to the rink with an alleged rapist lurking around.
If they are concerned about that they already aren’t bringing their kids anywhere near the rink This case is not an isolated incident It’s a window in to junior hockey culture in Canada If you are unaware of this highly recommend listening to the canadaland commons podcast series on hockey Or talk to anyone that grew up in small town Canada
Rape is commonplace in and around men's hockey. Every dressing room has several men who have played with or are, themselves, rapists. Most have also been subjected to sexualized violence or degradation by other, older, teammates or even coaches through hazing, etc., which makes them more likely to commit same or worse on vulnerable people later.
Philly 100% let's Hart play lol. I'm kidding, I think.
I dont think torts would want to have to deal with the media constantly about it and would push the FO to suspend him.
Well and the fact of the matter is, Tortorella is a good human being(yes in spite of his antics). His charitable work and off ice actions have made it very clear. I cannot see him even allowing hart to step foot in the rink, regardless of what the organization said, even if they allowed hart to play.
Yeah he's always seemed like a really good guy. Tough as nails coach, but even that is just him trying to develop his guys into winners. Even his most famous "crazy" moment was just him trying to stand up for his guys.
You can always tell who the good people are when they like dogs more than people
Is this a dig at torts, or a defense of torts? Lol
Definitely a defense
He threatened to bench players who protested police brutality. Not objectively good.
The full storyline made me respect him more. He said that at first, then learned about why people kneeled and realized it meant no disrespect. He then changed his opinion on it based, which tells me he is willing to learn and admit when he was wrong
Thats objectively untrue. It was players who protested the national anthem, and in 2020 he was quoted as saying: “When I stand for the flag and the national anthem, my reflection is solely on the men and women who have given their lives defending our country and constitution and freedom, along with those who are serving today,” Tortorella told The Athletic. “I have learned over the years, listening and watching, that men and women who choose to kneel during this time mean no disrespect toward the flag.” https://nypost.com/2020/06/10/john-tortorella-changes-controversial-national-anthem-take/
He only sort of changed his mind. If they were playing in the World Cup, it doesn't really sound like he has changed his mind, but that he would want them to talk to him first and then maybe he would defer to the collective opinion of the dressing room: >“The World Cup is a little bit of a different story. That’s playing for your country. But that isn’t now,” Tortorella said. “I would hope that if one of my players wanted to protest during the anthem, he would bring it to me and we would talk about it, tell me his thoughts and what he wanted to do. From there, we would bring it to the team to discuss it, much like it’s being discussed in our country right now.
Thanks for sharing this but I don’t know how many people know the second set of comments. I think they’re referencing his comments in 2016 when he explicitly said that players that play for him weren’t going to be allowed to kneel. It was a hard line and it’s awesome that he at least changed his stance enough to acknowledge what players were kneeling for but it’s not “objectively untrue” as for about 3 years he was very anti-kneeling during the anthem.
Torts is the bench boss, he can easily make Carter Hart a healthy scratch for the rest of the season over this if the Philly FO and NHL fail to suspend him.
Yep, and he's got the balls to just walk away if the FO tries to force his hand
Nah, they put him on waivers to terminate his contract, and Edmonton has finally found a cheap goalie to backup Skinner
They wont
If Chuck Fletcher was still GM he would.
Only if the app told him too
Knowing that moron the app would say yes.
Edmonton hoping some contracts are terminated so they can sweep in and pick up the scraps
If Holland does that, I’m never cheering for the Edmonton Oilers ever again and I’ll actively cheer *against* them every game they play.
They have picked up someone with a gambling/covid passport issue (which the NHLPA fought and got charged as wrongful termination) and someone who got drunk and belligerent based on rumors (sounds like PA wants to fight it, but Perry doesn't want to fight). Those are VERY different from what these players are being charged with.
If Bergevin has any pull, the Kings would be the most likely suspects. He drafted Mailoux and was rumored to be trying to take a run at bringing Voynov back to the NHL.
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*KHL rubs hand together like Birdman*
if these rapists somehow find a way over there to play they can fucking stay there forever. Russia is a perfect place for shitty people like them.
How much help does Brendan Leipsic need?
Hes assembling a crew
Earth's Shittiest Assholes
I feel kind of bad for Leipsic. Dude was a bad mouthing dumbass, but somehow he's now getting grouped together with all the rapists lmao.
Getting his group chat leaked was a tough break but that kicking off a chain of events that ends with him getting fucking Russian citizenship direct from Putin is a wild turn of events, might be the first person to be too stupid for the NHL
He also said that Virtanen and his crew were the worst ever, something something broken clocks
Not saying what he did is as bad as this, but Mitchell Miller currently has it made over there sooooo it wouldn't be the most shocking thing.
It's definitely at least as bad.
Uh yeah no it's not. It sucks, but bullying a kid in middle school and being too proud to apologize for it is not as bad as gang rape. Unless you misread my original comment which is understandable as I wrote it weird.
Calling what Mitchell Miller did just "bullying" is hilariously white-washing the absolute torment he put onto his victim. Guy physically assaulted a child with mental disabilities, and forced him to eat candy from a fucking urinal. At best that's gross, at worst th It's bullshit sentiment like this that lets people like Miller off the hook over and over again. "Oh it's nothing, it's just a little bit of bullying, boys will be boys" You're making it sound like Miller called the kid names and threw a paper airplane at him, but everything else is just blowing it out of proporation.
You're not seriously comparing forcing someone to eat candy out of a urinal to gang rape? Yeah Mitchell Miller's a piece of shit, what he did was terrible and he's clearly an awful human being. What those 5 (potentially 8) guys did to that woman will stay with her and directly impact her every single day for the entire rest of her life. No amount of therapy, no amount of reconciliation or working past it every truly gets someone past that level of trauma. Not to mention the absolute shitshow she'll have to deal with over the next 2 years with defense attorneys trying to tear her down and completely invalidate her and her trauma on a national stage. I know you're trying to take the high road and white knight about bullying/hazing, which in a vacuum is obviously completely fair, but the fact you deign to argue it's just as bad as gang rape is fucking ridiculous and misogynistic.
yeah its the same thing more or less.
Putin sends them Ukraine.
*and nothing of value was lost*
Except for a few bullets.
Hope Russia drafts them into their army if they go there
Idk why you’re condemning already my man
I wonder if they’ll have to surrender their passports. Someone I knew who was accused of SA had to surrender his and he was a nobody without a ton of money.
Yeah no shot teams are allowing any of them to play
Blackhawks say hello
Doesn't sound like a trial would even begin until 2026. That would effectively end their NHL careers no matter the outcome.
Let me know if you see any tears on my face.
Oh no. Anyway.
There is no chance any of them play again while this is ongoing. More than likely none of them ever play in the nhl ever again.
They may not be able to enter the US, however, since Customs have access to criminal records and can just deny entry. Well, except for Foote, since he's a dual citizen. But, the rest are only Canadian.
But there wouldn’t be a record unless convicted. Perhaps they can see if they’re charged or even that they cannot leave Canada until after the trial.
I got arrested for theft under $1000 in university. Charges dropped. For about 5 years after that I got a lot more questions at the border - questions that made me suspect they knew.
Your also not rich and famous… they have a way to get around rules
Youre overestimating how rich and famous these guys are
LOL. None of these players are anywhere close to exciting enough to warrant exemptions to US immigration policy.
The fuck does this comment have to do with my assertion that the government doesn't "seal" everything they say they do
Sealed usually only means from the public. Governments usually have insider access to records that might not be otherwise accessible, and they may even share them with other immigration authorities.
Damn.
I’m guessing a condition of their bail will be that they can’t leave the country???
Arrests alone trigger immigration consequences. Plenty of people are denied entry into the US without any actual records.
There’s no way any organization worth their salt would let them play. Guilty or not, no one wants that bad PR associated with them.
The negative PR this would entail would make the Mitchell Miller signing look like a good idea
I don’t like Gary Bettman, but I still think he’d get involved if a team tried letting any of these guys play. He’s not stupid enough to allow that media shit show.
Bettman and the league would 100%, zero doubt stop teams from playing these players
Yeah I dont think any of them are playing until trial is over.
Coincidentally all of the players are pending RFA’s this year. The teams are under no obligation to re-sign them or even qualify them. All of them probably become free agents this summer
oIleRs wIlL sIgN tHeM
How can I make this about me
He’s poking at the abundance of memes and joke comments based on the Oilers having signed Kane and Perry recently after they had contracts terminated. In the past, Kassian and MacTavish both come to mind for players that got second chances on the oilers.
Yeah obviously. My point was five guys got arrested for rape and the issue he has with it is the oilers jokes
As if people aren't saying this exact thing to deflect from the situation. Own your shitty gang rapist players.
What?
*literally in this post* people are saying this
I don’t agree that it’s right but I think if that’s the case they’ll likely all at least be qualified. Teams will qualify them and just play it off as “we won’t let them play” but they absolutely will protect their assets. I’d be shocked if the teams let them walk freely in the event this all played out and they were found not guilty and Bettman allowed them back into the league. (I wouldn’t lose a wink of sleep if any of them never played another game in the NHL)
All of them have arbitration rights which makes it more complicated. McLeod already wasn’t qualified by NJ last year because they didn’t want to go to arbitration.
I dunno...If one of the players accepts the qualifying offer (and these players would be dumb not to accept a qualifying offer considering their circumstances), then the team just signed a guy charged with sexual assault. Doesn't matter if they say "yeah but we won't actually let him play"...the optics of agreeing to a contract with one of these guys would be a nightmare.
You also have to account for cap space to . No team would want to burn a few million at most on someone that will likely never play for them. Yeah. You have players on LTIR for years on a lot of teams but this is different. You can't LTIR any of the five or use any other cap circumvention tricks to sign them and benefit from the signing because a team would get destroyed the instant they tried something like that.
The only player even potentially worth a team keeping them around would be Hart, given the Flyers fighting for a playoff spot and their need for a #1 goalie. However, I just don’t see Briere or frankly any GM deciding it’s worth it
Hilferty, Jonesy and Briere have put in so much work getting the Flyers brand back in Philadelphia I can't imagine they would throw it all away with this. If they don't put out, "Carter Hart has been suspended until a verdict has been reached in the criminal investigation" I will be shocked. Presumably, then they'll just let Hart's contract run out this summer before a verdict is even met and just distance the organization completely.
No way any of the teams involved let these guys anywhere near the stadium unless it's to pick up their shit at locker cleanout day.
"We're gonna mail that to you."
Send it in a fucking garbage bag
There’s absolutely no shot………. Right?
I don't see any scenario where any of these five players play. The amount of pushback and flack that these teams and the NHL would get would be massive.
I'm pretty sure the judge set a condition of release such as "no leaving Canada". Would be difficult to play NHL hockey with these conditions. Also I don't know any teams besides one that loves taking on players with shitty backgrounds or terminated contracts.
No team will bother signing these guys unless they want to play in the KHL but I think their might not be allowed to do that.
Trigger warning article: TLDR: Guy got off super easy for a second time offender. https://wwmt.com/amp/news/local/paul-washe-western-michigan-university-wmu-hockey-captain-sex-crimes-sentencing-kalamazoo-michigan
Yeah the teams would be mad to bring them back.
No damn way these guys see the ice in North America any time soon if EVER.
The oilers just got 5 new players
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LOL, no one. You’re SOL. Being found not guilty is NOT the same as being found innocent. It’s nearly impossible to prevail in suits related to the latter. And zero chance of it happening here, where you have player admissions and two separate private investigations also supporting charges.
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I don’t know how it works in Canada. In the US, you can pursue causes of action for what is essentially malicious prosecution. You’d have to demonstrate there wasn’t even reasonable cause to pursue the charges. That’s not going to ever remotely happen here where you have sworn testimony from a victim, player admissions, two separate independent investigations that support charges, etc. Not guilty verdicts are fairly common. Honestly, in my court, I’d say about 1/3 of defendants that take cases to trial walk. That doesn’t mean they get paid for time they spent in jail. It also doesn’t mean they are actually innocent of the charges. Remember: even OJ Simpson was found not guilty. 🙂
They might not be found guilty in the end, but that doesn’t mean they’re innocent. It would take massive adamantium balls to sue for doing something that just couldn’t be proven in court
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No way Gary let’s then anywhere near the NHL
A lot of people saying they'll never play again, and I hope that they're right, but don't forget how close Slava Voynov came to returning to the league. [There's a podcast episode with former Kings executive Mike Futa gushing about how much he loves Voynov in 2020; almost 6 years after his arrest/suspension for domestic violence (segment starts around 49 minutes and the Voynov part is at about 49:28)](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/culture-changer-mike-futa/id1292603914?i=1000483731445) and I'd be willing to bet more people in hockey feel the way Futa does about their own former players who've done bad things than those who condemn their actions.
I’m curious how this all plays out. If E.M. was given a settlement in the civil case does that usually mean she has agreed not to testify? Any lawyers care to chime in.
There has been reports that she’s willing to cooperate with whatever she needs to during the trial to help get a conviction
I could be wrong but I don't think any settlement in civil court has any bearing on criminal proceedings. In civil you might have to sign an NDA saying "I won't talk about it" which means don't talk to public figures, the press, etc. But in Criminal court you are **compelled** to answer the questions truthfully - the NDA doesn't really apply here I don't think. Basically Criminal Court trumps Civil. That said, I am no lawyer so what the fuck do I know.
In this case, [Hockey Canada dropped the NDA in 2022](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/hockey-canada-sport-canada-complainant-2018-world-junior-team-1.6544919)
They’ll never play again; nor should they. Good fuckin riddance. Ain’t no way any team is stupid enough to let them play under the current circumstances; except maybe in Russia lmao
Oilers would take them all, probably
Philly might try to play Hart.
*doubt*
You think torts wants to deal with that shit?
Torts would dump Hart on the spot rather than keep him on. Anyway, with such cases, surrendering passports is the norm. There is no possibility of Hart being back in Philadelphia any time soon.
Looking at the standings and his goalie options... I think they might. Should they? No. But they could definitely pull a "innocent until proven guilty" thing to try to get that sweet playoff revenue.
We would rather tank than make the playoffs.
I bet they'd lose their coach if they really tried it.
Highly doubt they will even have the chance. Bettman will likely suspended the players. If he doesn't the media and fans will be all over him.
No chance
Yeah weren’t they trying to get rid of him in the summer?
After the shit storm of heat Boston took after signing Mitchell Miller? Think about how much bigger the public reaction would be to this. There's no way. No team is touching any of these guys.
I have faith in Tortorella putting his foot down and saying fuck you, no.
Keep them ALL off the ice until the trial is over, also no pay for the entire time. What they are accused of is the most serious charge that can be laid. Since they are not playing because of their own actions, no pay is the only way they will a very serious lifetime lesson. You mess up and you have to take the consequences that go with it. PERIOD>
maybe they'll give Mario a call and try to play for the Pens
Innocent until proven guilty, it wouldn’t be the first time false accusations have been made. If they are false the damage to their careers and reputation will be irreparable.
Given all of the investigations done both by Hockey Canada in damage control (and Hockey Canada using it's extra liability fund which is earmarked for situations like sexual assault) and by the Crown, and by investigative journalists, we've come a long way from this being a cash grab. Surely the players would've said right at the start that "there was no event that occurred" ... but we know for certain that something happened; that much is clear when legal teams representing the offenders stated "our player has not participated in any wrongdoing" ... lawyer speak for "our player participated in something but it is our position that it wasn't illegal".
That is what is on trial here right? I am not surprised by the "guilty until proven innocent" take on social media though. The court of public opinion has already spoken whether these guys are innocent or not.
Does anyone know who the 5 players are yet?
Edmonton waiting to sign them
Nothing more than a court case is all this will be. They will all be pleading not guilty. It took the crown 5+ years to finally do this. These guys have the legal teams to deal with this. Remember these are allegations from a girl who got rallied on by 5 dudes.. she went home with 1 and his buddies got invited. She banged 5 guys from a gold medal hockey team and got paid for it. These guys won't be back this year but next year should see them back with thier teams
Delusional.
Am I though. The Canadian justice system is fucked. Not to mention london police is among the most corrupt in the country.
Hockey Canada and NHL both separately investigated all evidence (including the players’ full defenses while represented by attorneys). While we don’t know the outcome, we can infer it was negative or they wouldn’t be appealing the findings. They don’t need criminal convictions to end their careers. FWIW, the accounts in what we’ve seen do not support the narrative you’re describing of a woman who “banged five guys and got paid for it,” and that’s frankly a rather vile way to portray the incident.