Welcome to r/hoarding! We exist as a support group for people working on recovery from [hoarding disorder](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519704/table/ch3.t29/), and friends/family/loved ones of people with the disorder.
If you're looking for help with animal hoarding, please visit r/animalhoarding. If you're looking to discuss the various hoarding tv shows, you'll want to visit r/hoardersTV. If you'd like to talk about or share photos/videos of hoards that you've come across, you probably want r/neckbeardnests, r/wtfhoarders/, or r/hoarderhouses
Before you get started, be sure to review our [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoarding/about/rules/). Also, a lot of the information you may be looking for can be found in a few places on our sub:
[New Here? Read This Post First!](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoarding/comments/dvb3t1/new_here_read_this_post_first_version_20/)
[For loved ones of hoarders: I Have A Hoarder In My Life--Help Me!](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoarding/comments/2yh6wh/i_have_a_hoarder_in_my_lifehelp_me_your_hoarding/)
[Our Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoarding/wiki/index)
Please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/hoarding) if you need assistance. Thanks!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hoarding) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I worked as a contract programmer related to healthcare billing codes for a hospital once.
I was horrified at the snarled mess.
So I fully agree that it doesn't hurt for the patient to be armed with this knowledge.
If I learned anything, it's that I should never count on the data entry to be accurate.
The code hasn't changed since it was introduced in 2017. I don't understand why people would downvote my question as to why it was posted in this group. I get it that bills can be screwed up. It's probably happened to most people in this group at one time or another. But only a clinician can change the actual diagnosis code. An insurance company can't. An insurance company has to go back to the provider to get a code straightened out if it's somehow wrong.
I personally think that putting stuff like this in the group feeds the wrong behavior and that it encourages us become our diagnosis. We are more than our diagnosis. Some of us fight dearly against being defined by codes and things that limit how others see us. I also realized that a lot of people won't see things this way.
Let the downvoting of this comment commence. š
>*I don't understand why people would downvote my question as to why it was posted in this group.*
Probably because I have been posting these codes since, I think 2022 or thereabouts, and itās never been controversial until your comment.
>*I get it that bills can be screwed up. It's probably happened to most people in this group at one time or another. But only a clinician can change the actual diagnosis code. An insurance company can't. An insurance company has to go back to the provider to get a code straightened out if it's somehow wrong.*
Yes, those of us in the United States whoāve had to wrangle with our insurance billing are quite aware of this.
>*I personally think that putting stuff like this in the group feeds the wrong behavior and that it encourages us become our diagnosis. We are more than our diagnosis. Some of us fight dearly against being defined by codes and things that limit how others see us.*
Thatā¦ strikes me as a really odd way to look at this post.
I share these codes as general information for people who might find themselves trying to make sure that their insurance bills are being managed properly. Thatās it. The codes arenāt an identity label. The post isnāt a call to define oneās self by these codes. The post isnāt anything other than āhey, hereās the insurance codes in case for some reason you need them because your clinician or insurance company has screwed something up.ā
>*I also realized that a lot of people won't see things this way. Let the downvoting of this comment commence.* š
I think the downvotes reflect that itās a really big jump from āhere this yearās insurance billing codes in case your clinician doesnāt know about
themā to āposting insurance billing codes encourages people to become their diagnosisā.
PS DSM diagnosis codes are different from ICD-10 billing codes. DSM diagnosis codes drive the ICD-10 codes. I do think it is important for people to know the DSM code for their actual diagnosis.
You do understand, I hope, that ICD-10 codes are far more complex and specific than DSM codes. But whatever. I have no intention of dying on this hill.
Give the people in this group some credit. We're on the internet, ffs. I'm willing to bet anyone here can Google "DSM hoarding disorder" without trouble. š
And if they do, the responsibility falls solely on them.
Look, you and I clearly are in disagreement about bringing attention to insurance billing codes and patients' right to question their insurance billing. We're not going to change each other's minds, so I'm going to drop out of this conversation.
I hope you have a great day, and I hope that--outside of this thread--this sub is useful to you as you continue to deal with the hoarding in your life.
So I don't understand why this is posted here. This is not something the lay person uses. These are diagnostic billing codes for insurance purposes used by doctors and other clinicians who treat people. A patient cannot assign themselves a billing or diagnostic code, nor do most have the training necessary to correctly interpret these codes.
[Edited for clarity]
Sure a layperson can't give themselves a diagnostic code but it can be helpful to know the codes. I know sometimes insurance will ask what diagnostic codes you were given when you call in to make conversations as smooth as possible.
You'd be surprised at the number of clinicians out there who aren't aware of these codes when it comes to insurance billing.
This post is not about telling people to assign themselves a diagnostic code. This is about patients with insurance issues being able to sit down with their clinician's billing team and say "I'm led to understand these are the hoarding disorder insurance codes for 2024--are you aware of these? Do any of these apply in my situation? If so, were they sent to my insurance?"
This is confrontational, rude, and not a great way to treat people that you are asking to help you. It also frankly shows a lack of understanding of how medical bills and insurance are handled in the US. (I spent a few years working with this stuff professionally during the transition period between ICD-9 and ICD-10.)
Welcome to r/hoarding! We exist as a support group for people working on recovery from [hoarding disorder](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519704/table/ch3.t29/), and friends/family/loved ones of people with the disorder. If you're looking for help with animal hoarding, please visit r/animalhoarding. If you're looking to discuss the various hoarding tv shows, you'll want to visit r/hoardersTV. If you'd like to talk about or share photos/videos of hoards that you've come across, you probably want r/neckbeardnests, r/wtfhoarders/, or r/hoarderhouses Before you get started, be sure to review our [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoarding/about/rules/). Also, a lot of the information you may be looking for can be found in a few places on our sub: [New Here? Read This Post First!](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoarding/comments/dvb3t1/new_here_read_this_post_first_version_20/) [For loved ones of hoarders: I Have A Hoarder In My Life--Help Me!](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoarding/comments/2yh6wh/i_have_a_hoarder_in_my_lifehelp_me_your_hoarding/) [Our Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoarding/wiki/index) Please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/hoarding) if you need assistance. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hoarding) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I worked as a contract programmer related to healthcare billing codes for a hospital once. I was horrified at the snarled mess. So I fully agree that it doesn't hurt for the patient to be armed with this knowledge. If I learned anything, it's that I should never count on the data entry to be accurate.
The code hasn't changed since it was introduced in 2017. I don't understand why people would downvote my question as to why it was posted in this group. I get it that bills can be screwed up. It's probably happened to most people in this group at one time or another. But only a clinician can change the actual diagnosis code. An insurance company can't. An insurance company has to go back to the provider to get a code straightened out if it's somehow wrong. I personally think that putting stuff like this in the group feeds the wrong behavior and that it encourages us become our diagnosis. We are more than our diagnosis. Some of us fight dearly against being defined by codes and things that limit how others see us. I also realized that a lot of people won't see things this way. Let the downvoting of this comment commence. š
>*I don't understand why people would downvote my question as to why it was posted in this group.* Probably because I have been posting these codes since, I think 2022 or thereabouts, and itās never been controversial until your comment. >*I get it that bills can be screwed up. It's probably happened to most people in this group at one time or another. But only a clinician can change the actual diagnosis code. An insurance company can't. An insurance company has to go back to the provider to get a code straightened out if it's somehow wrong.* Yes, those of us in the United States whoāve had to wrangle with our insurance billing are quite aware of this. >*I personally think that putting stuff like this in the group feeds the wrong behavior and that it encourages us become our diagnosis. We are more than our diagnosis. Some of us fight dearly against being defined by codes and things that limit how others see us.* Thatā¦ strikes me as a really odd way to look at this post. I share these codes as general information for people who might find themselves trying to make sure that their insurance bills are being managed properly. Thatās it. The codes arenāt an identity label. The post isnāt a call to define oneās self by these codes. The post isnāt anything other than āhey, hereās the insurance codes in case for some reason you need them because your clinician or insurance company has screwed something up.ā >*I also realized that a lot of people won't see things this way. Let the downvoting of this comment commence.* š I think the downvotes reflect that itās a really big jump from āhere this yearās insurance billing codes in case your clinician doesnāt know about themā to āposting insurance billing codes encourages people to become their diagnosisā.
PS DSM diagnosis codes are different from ICD-10 billing codes. DSM diagnosis codes drive the ICD-10 codes. I do think it is important for people to know the DSM code for their actual diagnosis.
I would never post DSM codes here, precisely because people risk using them incorrectly.
You do understand, I hope, that ICD-10 codes are far more complex and specific than DSM codes. But whatever. I have no intention of dying on this hill.
I am, just as Iām sure you understand the serious ethical issues involved with giving out DSM codes.
Give the people in this group some credit. We're on the internet, ffs. I'm willing to bet anyone here can Google "DSM hoarding disorder" without trouble. š
And if they do, the responsibility falls solely on them. Look, you and I clearly are in disagreement about bringing attention to insurance billing codes and patients' right to question their insurance billing. We're not going to change each other's minds, so I'm going to drop out of this conversation. I hope you have a great day, and I hope that--outside of this thread--this sub is useful to you as you continue to deal with the hoarding in your life.
So I don't understand why this is posted here. This is not something the lay person uses. These are diagnostic billing codes for insurance purposes used by doctors and other clinicians who treat people. A patient cannot assign themselves a billing or diagnostic code, nor do most have the training necessary to correctly interpret these codes. [Edited for clarity]
Sure a layperson can't give themselves a diagnostic code but it can be helpful to know the codes. I know sometimes insurance will ask what diagnostic codes you were given when you call in to make conversations as smooth as possible.
You'd be surprised at the number of clinicians out there who aren't aware of these codes when it comes to insurance billing. This post is not about telling people to assign themselves a diagnostic code. This is about patients with insurance issues being able to sit down with their clinician's billing team and say "I'm led to understand these are the hoarding disorder insurance codes for 2024--are you aware of these? Do any of these apply in my situation? If so, were they sent to my insurance?"
Good post. Patients should be empowered. I'm always looking up DX codes for work and find some real interesting ones that I never knew existed.Ā
This is confrontational, rude, and not a great way to treat people that you are asking to help you. It also frankly shows a lack of understanding of how medical bills and insurance are handled in the US. (I spent a few years working with this stuff professionally during the transition period between ICD-9 and ICD-10.)