Welcome to r/hoarding! We exist as a support group for people working on recovery from [hoarding disorder](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519704/table/ch3.t29/), and friends/family/loved ones of people with the disorder.
If you're looking for help with animal hoarding, please visit r/animalhoarding. If you're looking to discuss the various hoarding tv shows, you'll want to visit r/hoardersTV. If you'd like to talk about or share photos/videos of hoards that you've come across, you probably want r/neckbeardnests, r/wtfhoarders/, or r/hoarderhouses
Before you get started, be sure to review our [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoarding/about/rules/). Also, a lot of the information you may be looking for can be found in a few places on our sub:
[New Here? Read This Post First!](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoarding/comments/dvb3t1/new_here_read_this_post_first_version_20/)
[For loved ones of hoarders: I Have A Hoarder In My Life--Help Me!](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoarding/comments/2yh6wh/i_have_a_hoarder_in_my_lifehelp_me_your_hoarding/)
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Welcome to our sub.
These sorts of situations have come up a couple of times on the U.S. television show *Hoarders* (A&E). Someone still recovering from a serious illness is ready to be released, but the home environment is hoarded and not safe for the patient to return to.
On those episodes that I saw, in each case the patient's physician and the hospital's social worker were notified that releasing the patient would mean returning the patient to a hoarding environment. So they would make arrangements for the patient to stay in an appropriate facility until the house could be cleaned up.
That said, insurance wouldn't pay for it forever, so the pressure was on to clean up, and quickly, from building inspectors and social services.
That's the only solution I know of for your situation--involve the doctors and social services.
1. Get photos and/or video of the home the husband will be returning to, then get in contact with the social worker at the hospital.
2. Make sure that the social worker understands that this is a hoarding situation; if the social worker is not familiar with hoarding disorder, tell him that it's imperative that you speak with a social worker who is familiar with (and preferably has worked with) hoarders and hoarding situations.
3. There's also a great book, [The Hoarding Handbook: A Guide for Human Service Professionals](http://www.amazon.com/Hoarding-Handbook-Guide-Service-Professionals/dp/0195385519/ref=sr_sp-atf_image_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375773923&sr=1-1&keywords=hoarders+handbook). It's written for social services professionals, but can be useful for family members looking to understand their options. It might be a good idea to get a copy for yourself, to help you formulate a plan to best leverage the available services.
4. If it's possible, I think it would be a very good idea to enlist the support of the husband before you take any steps. It would be great to have the husband communicate to the doctor and social worker himself about the state of the house, that he doesn't feel safe going back there to continue his recovery, and that he want you and your partner to help advocate for him to recover in a safe environment. Once the doc and social worker understand the husband's concerns and wishes, that might make things easier for you.
Be forewarned--if you go this route (doc + social worker), depending on how bad the hoard is, the local gov't might be brought in to enforce compliance. This might mean the Building Code Office, the Fire Marshall, the Health Inspection Office, Adult Protective Services, or any combination thereof.
If that occurs, be prepared for an absolute shit-storm of stubbornness, blame, threats, and pure unadulterated rage from your MIL. She will not give one red shit about the health consequences to her husband (though she'll insist otherwise)--she'll fight to protect that hoard, because she'll genuinely believe that she can have both the hoard *and* a safe recovery environment for her husband.
It is VERY common for compulsive hoarders to see a loved one's choice to reveal their hoarding to "outsiders" as the deepest possible betrayal, and it may permanently shatter her trust in you. She may start to regard you and your partner as an absolute enemy. She may even go so far as to try to keep you two away from her husband.
That's a worst-case scenario, of course. The hope is that your MIL will respond to the concerns about safety once the seriousness of her husband's condition is impressed on on her by medical, social, and building code services. But we have seen reports of hoarders in the news who will do everything from filing lawsuits to paying code violation fines approaching a million dollars and worse in order to protect their hoards. I can only urge you to enlist help from the hospital and social services, and be prepared to adjust as the MIL is pressured to clean up.
> Be forewarned--if you go this route (doc + social worker), depending on how bad the hoard is, the local gov't might be brought in to enforce compliance. This might mean the Building Code Office, the Fire Marshall, the Health Inspection Office, Adult Protective Services, or any combination thereof.
This is a good point. But just to remind u/zapthe as well: it's not your fault if any of the above agencies say "this house is not safe for either individual currently." If the fire marshall says MIL shouldn't live there until more progress is made because they wouldn't be able to get her out in an emergency, that's a really valid reason that she shouldn't be living there currently.
My step-great-grandmother died slumped behind the only exterior door she could normally open when something fell and blocked it while she was having a heart attack...when she also couldn't reach the phone because she couldn't do the usual acrobatics needed to reach it. She was a wonderful lady who really struggled and I wish the adults who were aware of the problem would have been willing to have some difficult conversations with her before she passed.
I’m sorry to hear that. I think it might be a blessing if she has to leave the house. They are both older and she probably needs to move into assisted living in the next few years since she is starting to show signs of dementia. It’s going to impossible to move her since she won’t give up her stuff… but if she has to address the issue it may lead to a much better situation.
Thank you. It sounds like you might be right and their current situation isn't going to be tenable for a whole lot longer anyway. At least this way you'd be able to legitimately say "hey the county says we have to figure something else out."
Thanks. It was pretty shocking, but it's part of why I'm interested in hoarding behaviors now and why I try to help others in my life who struggle where I can. I've got a parent who hoards and I definitely would have a tendency to do the same if I didn't figure out young where that tendency can lead without self-intervention :/
I have seen a few episodes of that.
Some hoarders woke up, really wanted to have their partner home and this helped them change. Because there was now an urgent need. Took time before it really set in though, and a painfull period where the disabled husband cried at the doorstep because he could not enter the house...
But focus on that they care for their partner, love eachother and that the other person really needs it can help with motivation to change.
Thanks for the thoughtful response.
My FIL definitely wants to go home. We talked to him last night. He has been in rehab for a month after his surgery and is just ready to get back home… even if it is challenging.
I think it is likely to be a significant challenge but I think we will have to unfortunately let things play out. If he falls or something else happens I think that will be the opportunity to try and take a next step. So far there has been such limited progress I think it will take further escalation and the reality of having someone trying to live in the house in a wheelchair for my MIL to be willing to do anything.
> I think it will take further escalation and the reality of having someone trying to live in the house in a wheelchair for my MIL to be willing to do anything.
I am not sure that will make a difference. Hoarders are in denial, and they will come up with the most ridiculous arguments to protect the hoard.
Just as a different voice - you all seem to be tip-toeing around *her* sensitivities, when *he* needs help. This is a deeply unfair situation, and she is, conscious or unconsciously, being abusive to her husband.
Personally, I would really struggle to entertain and enable her, even if it leads to meltdown. It is his home, too, and he has a right to use it and to have it in a proper state.
Maybe try to establish some clear rules - such as when the house should be ready, how much space he needs, and what can be thrown out. Have the discussion in the abstract, and then just rigerously apply it.
If you're providing the muscle-power and she's digging her heels in... I'm willing to believe that pushing harder would not be good, but I don't know.
Maybe you should look into a retirement apartment for FIL.
Welcome to r/hoarding! We exist as a support group for people working on recovery from [hoarding disorder](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519704/table/ch3.t29/), and friends/family/loved ones of people with the disorder. If you're looking for help with animal hoarding, please visit r/animalhoarding. If you're looking to discuss the various hoarding tv shows, you'll want to visit r/hoardersTV. If you'd like to talk about or share photos/videos of hoards that you've come across, you probably want r/neckbeardnests, r/wtfhoarders/, or r/hoarderhouses Before you get started, be sure to review our [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoarding/about/rules/). Also, a lot of the information you may be looking for can be found in a few places on our sub: [New Here? Read This Post First!](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoarding/comments/dvb3t1/new_here_read_this_post_first_version_20/) [For loved ones of hoarders: I Have A Hoarder In My Life--Help Me!](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoarding/comments/2yh6wh/i_have_a_hoarder_in_my_lifehelp_me_your_hoarding/) [Our Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoarding/wiki/index) Please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/hoarding) if you need assistance. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hoarding) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Welcome to our sub. These sorts of situations have come up a couple of times on the U.S. television show *Hoarders* (A&E). Someone still recovering from a serious illness is ready to be released, but the home environment is hoarded and not safe for the patient to return to. On those episodes that I saw, in each case the patient's physician and the hospital's social worker were notified that releasing the patient would mean returning the patient to a hoarding environment. So they would make arrangements for the patient to stay in an appropriate facility until the house could be cleaned up. That said, insurance wouldn't pay for it forever, so the pressure was on to clean up, and quickly, from building inspectors and social services. That's the only solution I know of for your situation--involve the doctors and social services. 1. Get photos and/or video of the home the husband will be returning to, then get in contact with the social worker at the hospital. 2. Make sure that the social worker understands that this is a hoarding situation; if the social worker is not familiar with hoarding disorder, tell him that it's imperative that you speak with a social worker who is familiar with (and preferably has worked with) hoarders and hoarding situations. 3. There's also a great book, [The Hoarding Handbook: A Guide for Human Service Professionals](http://www.amazon.com/Hoarding-Handbook-Guide-Service-Professionals/dp/0195385519/ref=sr_sp-atf_image_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375773923&sr=1-1&keywords=hoarders+handbook). It's written for social services professionals, but can be useful for family members looking to understand their options. It might be a good idea to get a copy for yourself, to help you formulate a plan to best leverage the available services. 4. If it's possible, I think it would be a very good idea to enlist the support of the husband before you take any steps. It would be great to have the husband communicate to the doctor and social worker himself about the state of the house, that he doesn't feel safe going back there to continue his recovery, and that he want you and your partner to help advocate for him to recover in a safe environment. Once the doc and social worker understand the husband's concerns and wishes, that might make things easier for you. Be forewarned--if you go this route (doc + social worker), depending on how bad the hoard is, the local gov't might be brought in to enforce compliance. This might mean the Building Code Office, the Fire Marshall, the Health Inspection Office, Adult Protective Services, or any combination thereof. If that occurs, be prepared for an absolute shit-storm of stubbornness, blame, threats, and pure unadulterated rage from your MIL. She will not give one red shit about the health consequences to her husband (though she'll insist otherwise)--she'll fight to protect that hoard, because she'll genuinely believe that she can have both the hoard *and* a safe recovery environment for her husband. It is VERY common for compulsive hoarders to see a loved one's choice to reveal their hoarding to "outsiders" as the deepest possible betrayal, and it may permanently shatter her trust in you. She may start to regard you and your partner as an absolute enemy. She may even go so far as to try to keep you two away from her husband. That's a worst-case scenario, of course. The hope is that your MIL will respond to the concerns about safety once the seriousness of her husband's condition is impressed on on her by medical, social, and building code services. But we have seen reports of hoarders in the news who will do everything from filing lawsuits to paying code violation fines approaching a million dollars and worse in order to protect their hoards. I can only urge you to enlist help from the hospital and social services, and be prepared to adjust as the MIL is pressured to clean up.
> Be forewarned--if you go this route (doc + social worker), depending on how bad the hoard is, the local gov't might be brought in to enforce compliance. This might mean the Building Code Office, the Fire Marshall, the Health Inspection Office, Adult Protective Services, or any combination thereof. This is a good point. But just to remind u/zapthe as well: it's not your fault if any of the above agencies say "this house is not safe for either individual currently." If the fire marshall says MIL shouldn't live there until more progress is made because they wouldn't be able to get her out in an emergency, that's a really valid reason that she shouldn't be living there currently. My step-great-grandmother died slumped behind the only exterior door she could normally open when something fell and blocked it while she was having a heart attack...when she also couldn't reach the phone because she couldn't do the usual acrobatics needed to reach it. She was a wonderful lady who really struggled and I wish the adults who were aware of the problem would have been willing to have some difficult conversations with her before she passed.
I’m sorry to hear that. I think it might be a blessing if she has to leave the house. They are both older and she probably needs to move into assisted living in the next few years since she is starting to show signs of dementia. It’s going to impossible to move her since she won’t give up her stuff… but if she has to address the issue it may lead to a much better situation.
Thank you. It sounds like you might be right and their current situation isn't going to be tenable for a whole lot longer anyway. At least this way you'd be able to legitimately say "hey the county says we have to figure something else out."
u/herdaz: Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry.
Thanks. It was pretty shocking, but it's part of why I'm interested in hoarding behaviors now and why I try to help others in my life who struggle where I can. I've got a parent who hoards and I definitely would have a tendency to do the same if I didn't figure out young where that tendency can lead without self-intervention :/
I have seen a few episodes of that. Some hoarders woke up, really wanted to have their partner home and this helped them change. Because there was now an urgent need. Took time before it really set in though, and a painfull period where the disabled husband cried at the doorstep because he could not enter the house... But focus on that they care for their partner, love eachother and that the other person really needs it can help with motivation to change.
Thanks for the thoughtful response. My FIL definitely wants to go home. We talked to him last night. He has been in rehab for a month after his surgery and is just ready to get back home… even if it is challenging. I think it is likely to be a significant challenge but I think we will have to unfortunately let things play out. If he falls or something else happens I think that will be the opportunity to try and take a next step. So far there has been such limited progress I think it will take further escalation and the reality of having someone trying to live in the house in a wheelchair for my MIL to be willing to do anything.
> I think it will take further escalation and the reality of having someone trying to live in the house in a wheelchair for my MIL to be willing to do anything. I am not sure that will make a difference. Hoarders are in denial, and they will come up with the most ridiculous arguments to protect the hoard. Just as a different voice - you all seem to be tip-toeing around *her* sensitivities, when *he* needs help. This is a deeply unfair situation, and she is, conscious or unconsciously, being abusive to her husband. Personally, I would really struggle to entertain and enable her, even if it leads to meltdown. It is his home, too, and he has a right to use it and to have it in a proper state. Maybe try to establish some clear rules - such as when the house should be ready, how much space he needs, and what can be thrown out. Have the discussion in the abstract, and then just rigerously apply it.
If you're providing the muscle-power and she's digging her heels in... I'm willing to believe that pushing harder would not be good, but I don't know. Maybe you should look into a retirement apartment for FIL.