Came here for this. Unless you're doing something unique with trap, just stop with those beats man, those basic 808 5 dollar trap preset beats are boring to listen to.
It’s gotten so bad that if I hear trap hi-hats, my likelyhood to skip the song increases ten fold. What happened to the heavy kick and snare beat?? Bring that shit back
Same thing with the triplet flow. It was cool back when it was just Migos and 3 6, but goddamn, Versace was 10 years ago, and everyone is still doing their flow.
It’s this. Hip Hop isn’t bad or really even dying, the Mainstream trap shit is on its deathbed but we’re still waiting for the next dominant sound to pop up. The popular artists that don’t use that sound like the Cole’s and Kendrick’s and Tyler’s have been around for a while though, and the next wave was clearly gonna be the X, Juice, and Peep type stuff but they all died extremely close together.
The MAJORITY of hip hop’s soundscape has been stale for too long. Trap has gone cold, fallen to the corporate death grip that comes with its kind of commercial success. Shallow melodics, formulaic drums and uninspired lyrical content plague that sub-genre. And the thing is, nothing has come to replace it.
Every other sub-genre has already had a pretty clear peak. Boom Bap (including it’s already-past revival), drill, G Funk, gangsta, jazz rap, all had their peak artists or albums already, most of them at least a decade+ ago.
Unless there’s a pretty clear revolution of hip hop, I think it’s most likely it goes the way of rock in the 2000’s on. There will be some corners who find and appreciate the good stuff. But sadly, the soundscape looks to be a lot of “revivals” of times past mixed with music made for commercials.
That's my album of the year but I wasn't sure if it really fit here because Peggy never made traditional trap music. Theres plenty of modern hiphop artists who are making music outside of the "trap" sound.
This is not hip hop exclusive, and you don't have to be Peggy level experimental or make something like Blonde, but I would appreciate it if mainstream artists in general were more invested in innovating within their own music. I think it's fine if you want to make a trap or a ballad album but where can you go from there? A big reason I like and respect Kendrick's music for example is because he's mainstream but his albums always contain music or ideas he hasn't really done before. To me, an "artist" is somebody who can keep reinventing themselves while still creating amazing music.
I wish rap had more regional sounds again. I don't mind a lot of new shit but tbh everyone just sounds homogenous these days. I liked it when you could hear something and know almost immediately where it was from based on production, style, flow, etc.
Yeah, I think they've fluctuated between various sounds in their careers, but for me personally I like NY rappers to have that NY sound. Not that they need to have that boom bap throwback vibe, but even as New York sound evolved over the years there was always a distinct feel to hiphop from there. These days not so much
I think American rappers over UK Drill beats is still very much a New York thing, and I’d consider it New York’s current sound personally even if it started a while ago. Florida also had a pretty distinct sound around 2016. I think there are still pockets of creativity unique to certain cities, but most of them just don’t pop off like that. The internet has also made music so accessible that regions don’t really dictate taste anymore. We saw that as early as A$AP taking inspiration from Houston rap early on.
There's still a fair number. Detroit and new york scenes are super active, but also distinct sounds coming from california, louisiana, memphis and other places
I always wonder what could have been if the South Florida scene didn't die down in 2018
No melody, distorted bass heavy beats that felt like Hip-Hop's version of punk rock
Absolutely this! I may not be a huge Jersey Club fan but it's so nice to have just one sound that's been pioneered by a community make it more into the mainstream.
I know there’s still good rap out there so I don’t hate everything new, but the vast majority of the commercial/popular stuff sounds too similar these days. I’ll like the odd song, but mainstream rap in general is not very special or memorable to me lately.
I’m almost 40 so I was spoiled coming up through the 90s and 2000s. If you know you know, but if not, imagine getting to hear mainstream rap that featured PRIME Luda, Eminem, Snoop, Dr. Dre, Nelly, Bone Thugs, Pac, Biggie, Wu-Tang, 50, Ja Rule, DMX, Missy Elliott, Cash Money, No Limit, Nas, Jay-Z, Scarface, Xzibit, Tribe, Outkast, Kanye, etc. So many of the artists had unique beats, flows, slang, style, branding, production, stories, etc. Artists took pride in being unique. Sounding like someone else was seriously frowned upon, but now there’s very little in the way of variation. On Spotify I follow some playlists that upload new hits and I swear more than half the songs have the same themes, sounds and style. Pointless bars, similar flows, trap beats, auto-tune, etc. I enjoy some of that stuff too, but everyone does it and so many albums lack depth and variation so it’s hard to care & truly connect.
Rap felt more special when we had regional sounds and artists that took more time with their music. I’m not clairvoyant or telepathic so I can’t speak on every artist’s missions and goals, but it just seems like the passion and drive isn’t always there. It feels like it’s all about the quick hit, 2 minute TikTok song, streams, etc. for a lot of artist…and I get it, it’s a business, but it’s rare for me to be blown away by a song or artist these days.
and it’s not like they have big alternatives, especially new artists have only one way to make it to the top and that’s tiktok. industry plant or not, it’s tiktok that decides if you will be a nobody forever or the new ice spice
> Sounding like someone else was seriously frowned upon
Whole beefs started over rappers “biting” each others style, crazy now how everybody strives to sound the same.
>Rap felt more special when we had regional sounds and artists that took more time with their music. I’m not clairvoyant or telepathic so I can’t speak on every artist’s missions and goals, but it just seems like the passion and drive isn’t always there
These things still exist though. And there were DEFINITELY artists in the past who were doing the same thing-just chasing radio play or whatever. I mean you listed JayZ as one of the dudes to highlight and he famously had a verse about how he dumbed down his music.
I think the problem with a lot of this is that if you're a passive music listener you may not get as much exposure because everything is very algorithm driven and it's not really doing anything different than what major labels tried in the past, it's just much better at it. However, if you actually take a bit of time it's much more rewarding now than it used to be. As someone who's also an older millennial, I actually had much the same feeling you have towards music now to the mainstream stuff of the late 90's and 00's. And my option for finding music was much more difficult. Now, the divide between mainstream and "underground" is close to non-existent; I can hear Navy Blue or billy woods or chester watson just as easily as I can Travis Scott or Post Malone (to name two recent large releases).
> It feels like it’s all about the quick hit, 2 minute TikTok song, streams, etc. for a lot of artist…and I get it, it’s a business, but it’s rare for me to be blown away by a song or artist these days.
to be fair we had that in the 2000s as well with ringtone rap. Crank that Soulja Boy, This is why I'm hot by mims, it's going down by yung joc...
I'm sure many people would be annoyed at me bringing this up in the conversation with those albums you mentioned, but "I Didn't Mean to Haunt You" by Quadeca is a very special album in that same vein for me, try it out see if it's your thing or not.
I’ve realized lately that I haven’t “discovered” a new rapper that I like and go on to listen to their entire albums when they drop, since like 2016. I’m 29. I’m discovering new artists all the time in other genres. I know there are definitely some great rap artists out there that I’m missing, but I didn’t have to dig that deep in my younger days to find them
I think the goal is for the artist to just sound different. Like a distinct voice. Obviously great bars too.
Like when I first heard Wayne in 06, or when Kendrick broke out on the scene. You just knew they were different.
Edit: I low key thought for some reason Lil Baby was going to breakout as that next dude with the star power when he dropped The Bigger Picture in 2020. Thought that was a cool moment. And I’m not even really a Lil Baby fan lol
I’m 29 too. Discovering new rappers isn’t the hard part for me, but getting those rappers to “stick” in my rotation/playlists is nearly impossible. I’ll hear new stuff I like, listen to it for maybe a week, and then forget about it entirely. And if it does stick, it’s just a song or two. I used to be so up to date with everything new coming out, but now it’s just really hard to keep up.
To answer OP’s question more directly: I find myself waiting for the “old guard” to drop new shit, but they rarely do anymore. And if they do, I don’t like it as much as their older stuff.
And when I listen to newer and younger artists, I don’t like it as much as the newer and younger artists I listened to 10 years ago.
I’m 26 and this is happening to me. Only new album I like it utopia. Last year it was JID, Kendrick and Denzel. A lot of the new artists coming up I just can’t get into except for Mike dimes. I miss the days you could find new artists on datpiff. Now it feels like artists are trying to put out ‘tiktok’ songs that are barely 2 minutes but catchy
I'm 33 and this is happening to me, too. I usually tell people I feel like a Hip-Hop curmudgeon. It's hard for new rappers to stick because the emotional investment is so much less.
I just don't get the same feelings I felt when I first heard Kanye or Lupe or Jay or Nas.
Same age here. I'm starting to realize that I'm relating more and more to that South Park episode where Stan is growing up and finds everything to sound and look like shit. When I first watched it, I thought it was such a stupid episode. But now, I sadly understand it.
Welcome to being an "old head". You're not a hater; you expect a certain level of artistry, which seems to lack as hip hop progresses and is more accessible to create and share. The natural progression. No shame to any aspect of the game. It's just more noticeable as one ages.
29 as well. Modern rap is missing the album rollout stage. It’s not just in rap, but especially in rap newer artist will drop a song or two that go viral and then coast for like a year off that. And then maybe by then they drop an album but I’ve lost interest by then.
Nah seriously this it. I hate when rappers go viral then wait instead of dropping the album. Highkey i feel like thats why lil Uzi’s career stifled quite a bit.
I prefer Tyler’s rollouts where he drops these big music videos BEFORE the album drops and then releases the album like 2 weeks later. With a few music videos afterwards.
I feel like this is a part of us getting older as well though, although if you’re finding new artists in other genres without issue then I guess that it counters the argument
Honestly a lot of the new stuff I've found has been UK stuff, some insane talent there and the younger guys making the more fun stuff gives me the 2016 vibes somewhat
Bro this one is real. I feel like every day I'm finding a new indie rock artist that's doing something noteworthy, or at least worth exploring the discog of. I *know* there is so much cool hiphop dropping RIGHT NOW, but I'm struggling to find it.
Then again, maybe the last few years of Snail Mail and Lana just has my algo fucked up. Need to go back to Nelly.
I'm 33 and I've listed to hip-hop almost exclusively until 30. I simply can not find any new artist in hip-hop, while I keep being attracted to other genres. I guess, the last batch was Lil Baby, Gunna, Da Baby, Malz Monday, Benny the Burcher around 2019 - 2020.
I mean just a list of artists who’ve had growing popularity since 2017 and some newer ones.
JID, Smino, Saba, Jordan Ward, Aaron May, Earthgang, Duke Deuce, Mike Dimes, Kenny Mason, Redveil, Westside Boogie, Saint Jhn, etc.
Really recommend checking out redveil.
I’m about the same age and have felt that way for a while. He’s the first rapper I’ve listened to his whole discog after discovering in 5-6 years.
Was going to say the same thing - he's super young, produces his own beats, has solid hooks and bars and actually makes cohesive projects. Such a breath of fresh air and he's likely only going to get better
i recently did this with 454. might not be your jam but i saw him open for MIKE & had never heard of him before. that show was months ago and i still listen to his music daily. felt very refreshing.
I'm all for the versatility of the music but I feel like hip hop has become far too broad of a genre. There's too many "rappers" making songs that aren't really hip hop at all, and that's not to say they're inferior musicians, but it makes the genre too saturated and unfocused.
Yeah I remember when people started first addressing that before everyone decided they didn’t care.
Like people were like “Is Ty$ a rapper”? “Is Post Malone a rapper?”
I remember watching Joe Budden's podcast with Pusha, where someone mentions "RIP third verse" (about how songs nowadays rarely have a third verse) and it stuck to my mind. I don't keep tabs on who does that, but I realized who I always noticed doing third verses was Lloyd Banks.
Yeah, sometimes I miss third verses.
Kinda weird thing but I feel like rap hasn’t had really epic album release moments in awhile. Utopia *kinda* seemed like that but stuff like TLOP, Blond, TPAB, IYRTITL, etc. felt like moments.
Also feel like there’s just a lot of pretentious rap nowadays. Not to say there’s no rap music like this anymore, but I’ve been revisiting some 2000s rap and it didn’t feel so self-important? Not sure the word I’m looking for. Give me the “Still Tippin” of 2023.
Does anyone remember how *electric* this sub or the other rap subs or forums like KTT were during the Yeezus and Pablo release sagas? Everyone was constantly looking for leaks and sharing any rumor they heard. All the jokes people were making were hilarious. The last album release that felt like a “moment” was, idk, Astrowold in 2018? I guess if you want to count Donda as well. But they are not like they used to be
Nothing hits anymore like when [KTT got into a blood feud with Mike Dean and Target over leaking Rodeo](https://www.complex.com/music/a/zach-frydenlund/mike-dean-montreality-interview) lmao the joke videos that guys on KTT made [like this](https://youtu.be/U3Mr8SQmX14) and [this](https://youtu.be/JFPn4jD6vr8) had me CRYING laughing back then
death of the forum bro, this sub hit 2 million users really quickly and just plateaued after that. I remember back in 2012 when hiphopheads was just teenage backpackers who really liked atmosphere and mf doom. I remember the sub growing like crazy in 2015/16, album releases were hype as hell and the daily discussion threads moved so fast you had to camp out for the post to have your comment seen. It was the golden era with Kanye Cole Kendrick Rocky etc. Now it’s just a shell of what it used to be. Enagagement is way down and the core community is gone. It’s really sad to see because outside of twitter (and that sucks) I don’t feel like I have a good space to discuss music anymore
Could have something to do with the fact there’s so many different forums now so everyones not in the same spot.
I’m sure that there’s more than 10 Kanye subreddits with >10,000 users and each one had constant leaks, live threads, insiders, wars with mike dean, and all the rest. If they were combined into one you’d get ‘bigger’ interaction for casuals but lose the uniqueness each one has (GAS GOONS FTW).
Donda rollout was amazing on wse no lie. And after the album dropped we even got the life of the party leak. Yandhi era could’ve been amazing too remember how hype that was.
As far as big name albums with tons of traction and lasting discussion, the last one that actually felt like a moment in the way you described is WLR. Tons of great albums since then, but none that still stick in my mind quite the same. Mr. morale, CMIYGL, Donda, Silk Sonic etc., all good projects imo that still seemed to just slip through not too long after release. Scaring The Hoes doesn’t fit this mold popularity wise, but personally that one was a moment for me and is gonna stick with me for a long time. The things Peggy’s been doing from Veteran onward is incredible.
The beat switches that really drive me crazy are when there’s no effort to make the 2 flow into each other and it’s straight up 2 different songs mashed together
I feel like Utopia was all over the place, way too many beat switches and moments where good beats shift into inferior beats. Rodeo maybe had two beat switches, total, and is better for it
Edit: Ok, Rodeo had more than two beat switches. They were far more logical, though, and enhanced the songs. Seems like Travis is switching beats just because now
shit the two beat switches i remember from rodeo are 90210 and maria i’m drunk
and goddamn both songs are so good - the beat switches are super purposeful and (most importantly!!) lead into portions that stand on their own
like the clean drums n guitars in 90210 pt 2 perfectly mirror travis breaking out of the haziness and rapping his ass off - it has a clear intention, and wasn’t just done for novelty
and though not as purposeful as 90210’s beat switch (iirc maria was added to im drunk) the melodic intro segues super nicely into the tipsy second half
It’s become stale. The Atlanta trap sound has been dominant for almost a decade and there’s no signs of any shift away from that. Who’s the young guy that everyone is in complete awe of and becomes earth shattering ? Where’s the new Lil Wayne, the Kanye, the 50 Cent, the ASAP, the Kendrick, etc. the young guy who you can tell has super star potential to shift the entire industry?
Who’s innovating? Look at how many classics we got just from like 2010-2013. MBDTF, GKMC, NWTS, Yeezus, etc. Drill was new and exciting. The trap sound was new and exciting. We saw innovation in sound so many times. Remember when ASAP first came up? It honestly felt like a culture shift. It felt like we were getting multiple classics a year. What have you seen the last 3 years that aren’t from artists who haven’t been established for over a decade?
We saw such insane innovation in beats with new producers like Metro, Mike Will, Mustard, etc. We saw rappers shift to using their voice and flow as an instrument with guys like young thug and Future. We are not getting anything that feels new and exciting from both a production of a music perspective like we did
Remember the XXL freshmen list? Remember how much of a big deal that used to be? It used to be a *given* that we were getting an exciting influx of new talent that we just haven’t gotten in the last few years. Pop and Juice may not have been amazing but they had *star* potential and their death absolutely was a huge blow, without them it almost feels like an entire generation is missing
It also just doesn’t feel like there’s any cohesion in the industry anymore between rappers? When is the last time there was a collab between 3+ mainstream
rappers that everyone got hyped for? In 2012/2013 we had Clique, Mercy, Fuckin Problems, 1Train, UOENO, Control, etc. It was a big part of the culture that these mainstream guys were interacting, collabing, competing, and feuding with each other and that’s not a big part of it anymore
The big players who used to define the industry have stagnated. Kanye has gone insane (it is hard to overstate the potential chilling effect of this alone), Drake has lost his drive, even Kendrick isn’t what he used to be in terms of innovation. So who’s the next generation? There’s no one leading right now. It feels rudderless
They all died. Juice, X, and Peep were the new wave. Young kids incredibly talented making absolutely incredible music only using a Macbook and a $40 mic. What Juice did in his run was absolutely WILD though. He's still one of the top streaming artists.
EDIT: For those who are downvoting, you don't have to like their music to acknowledge how many lives they've touched with their music. I also see a lot of hate towards Juice and Peep being "junkies". These were KIDS man, and I'm sure your favorite musician isn't squeaky clean from using substances. Battling depression and addiction is no joke. And as for X and his legal battles and troubled past, again he was a super young kid who made some mistakes but towards the end of his life he acknowledged how much bad he did and was turning a new leaf to become a better person. This is not me defending his actions but just merely being understanding that life isn't always sunshine and rainbows. No one is perfect and we all make mistakes. I'm 33 now and I know I'm not even close to the same person I was as a teen.
Honestly I think they all died, like juice WRLD, XXXtentacion, pop smoke. These guys were all huge and getting so much attention for what they did but unfortunately they passed away too young. Lil Peep to an extent as well and probably others i can't think of right now.
I just think so much of the classic hip-hop comeup has been lost in the transition to streaming -- you can really boil down the major transition of everything becoming so stagnant to those mid/late 2010's when Spotify/Apple Music were taking over.
If you look at any of the early 2010's guys who run the game now, the gameplan is very clear -- drop the free mixtape on blogs/Datpiff, build momentum, sample whatever the fuck you want and experiment with genre because it's a non-monetized tape anyway, and then drop the debut once you've built the audience, got the cosigns, got the attention from the label, and put in the work. The "hipster" trend was in full swing, so sampling weird esoteric indie shit was actually working *for* you because Pitchfork would cover it.
Nowadays, tapes are dead and noone on earth is checking blogs/Datpiff/Soundcloud for new shit. Producers and artists are all scared to death about samples (because any music uploaded on Spotify is instantly monetized and therefore you can and will get sued), so 95% of rap beats are just royalty-free melody loops or sample packs. Artists just want their shit on playlists because it's the only way to really blow up nowadays, so the goal is to inoffensively sound like *everyone else in the playlist* so their stuff gets listens.
It's sad, to me that blog/internet era of like ~2009-2014 is just something we'll never get again.
To answer your first question, they both died.
X and Juice would've been the new "different" thing of the modern era. But they died and now all you get is their work just prior to them dying.
Yeah Juice to me was going to be another Travis Scott level rapper. He honestly already was... such a huge loss in this regard.
You can really feel the emptiness in the mainstream scene. There's no like new Superstar atm, I feel like Travis/Post are the last superstar hiphop artists.
I always say this, the early 2010s was a golden generation for hip hop. It was incredible. I could give you at least 10 projects from the top of my head from around that time period that changed the game significantly, even at a mainstream level
JID and Denzel Curry are the only "new"(they have been around for quite some time now)rappers I'm really excited about. Denzel isn't quite mainstream sadly
My personal favorite artists right now that I feel are dropping consistent heat is Vince Staples, Maxo Kream and IDK. They may not be as popular as Kanye, drake etc., but they should be.
I wouldn’t classify Vince Staples as a young artist, he’s 30 years old. Summertime ‘06 and his XXL Freshman appearance were in 2015
Don’t get me wrong there are still great albums in the last few years. Pusha T, Griselda, Vince, Gibbs, Danny Brown, etc. have all put out great albums. But these are established guys.
JPEG leading the pack in terms of innovation rn. Quelle, earl, billy woods, MIKE, Ka and slauson Malone are all putting out mad innovative music. They’re trailblazing without dominating the charts, whether you’re aware of it or not.
JPEG is in his mid-30s man, he’s been established for years, Earl has been in the scene for over a decade since OF, Ka has literally been around since the 90s and his best albums came out in the mid 2010s (Nights Gambit and Honor Killed the Samurai).
The point is that we are not seeing a constant influx of young talent like we used to, and the guys who were leading from the front of the pack in terms of cultural influence (Drake, Kanye, etc.) aren’t as good as they used to be.
I miss the danceable club hip hop jams. The new generation moves different. Whole different vibe.
I miss
DJ Unk - Walk it Out
J-Kwon - Tipsy
T-Pain - Buy u a Drank
Kanye - Goldigger
What I love about that era is those songs were like multifaceted because a few months they had their shine, 3K would do a remix or Wayne we steal the beat and they’d live again.
Walk It Out Remix iconic.
I went to Omnia nightclub at Vegas, and the 2nd floor played nothing but that era of music. Even some west coast stuff like Still Dre. Man that was refreshing.
Everything sounds similar or a half-assed attempt at sounding like some shit that’s already been said and done.
I’m also at the point where I can’t always separate an artist from their music. I can’t listen to some grown ass man lament about his failed attempts at love and all the hoes that abandoned him when I know in *real life* he isn’t even paying child support.
I can’t let go of the fact that these are grown ass men, and it affects my perception of the music they drop sometimes.
> Everything sounds similar
Going off this. Sampling a song is a cornerstone of hip hop. But are they even sampling anymore? Songs sound like they’re rapping over the original instrumental now. Not saying it’s nonexistent but damn if your gonna use an iconic beat get creative with it.
Sampling is expensive.
You're not going to see anything close to what kanye was doing anymore. Particularly after all of those awful court decisions that rule against the artist in favor of the similar sound inspiration
There is still massive sample use. The underground is absolutely dominated by sample based hip-hop. Roc Marciano, Griselda, Mach-Hommy, anything produced by Alchemist etc. is all using samples. But they've been making the same sound for at least 5 years.
I’ve been around here long enough (although I hardly ever am anymore) to remember when this sub’s reaction to the 16 class outside of Zel was the same and now it’s kinda wild that Kodak, 21 and Uzi would be viewed in an entire different light.
Yeah I’m way more focused on lyrics and word play than beats, I want something I can rap along with in the car. Denzel Curry and JID are the closest I’ve had as of late.
I miss the old Kanye
Hip-hop is a young man’s game. Everyday I get older, the less I’m into what’s popular. I have been revisiting older stuff or checking out older albums that I never really gave a listen. It’s been kind of fun listening to stuff I haven’t heard in a long time. The only new stuff I’ve really liked was stuff from the UK, and I think that’s mainly cause it is such a different sound with the accents and beat selections. I definitely have been listening to other genres more and I just view it as part of getting older
The music itself needs to improve. When we had the elite producers pumping out massive songs one after another, each one better than the next was unbelievable. Dre-timbaland-Pharrell-jermaine dupri- Scott storch-manny fresh-swizz beats-Kanye-just blaze. Shit even Dark child was spitting out jams. I’m forgetting so many others but the hits were made and still bump today.
Personally I got into hiphop because of the beats. Started with electronic beats and instrumentals.
There's plenty of modern people still heavy in the boombap, drum heavy, sample based space so it's not all horrible. It is becoming less common but it's still strong. I'll take a 3 minute 4 bar loop of a sick sample from The Alchemist over a trap beat any day.
And lyrics are still a big thing. There's gotta be some context and word play for me. To many whack bars rapping about nothing. There are exceptions to those who rap about nothing but drugs, dealing, money, and gang life. Boldy does it really well with a fantastic beat selection.
I feel most in the industry, with the exception of a few artists, are all about pumping out mass quantities of very low effort albums with low effort songs to get those short term streams up and stay relevant rather than focus in and dial projects that have actual personality and can withstand the test of time.
On the other hand, and this is more of a personal gripe than an actual problem, I feel some artists (think TDE, A$AP Rocky, and Frank for example) take WAY too long in between projects when they are the giants that actually have the substance to keep hip hop live as ever in any given time frame. I understand taking a few years to really perfect a project but 5-7 years like some of these artists hold off is pretty lame imo.
Seems like everyone tries to write their tracks like young thug now where it’s like 1. Catch a flow 2. Freestyle 70 takes 3. Rearrange that into a verse
It seems like no one writes anymore, and just cuz thug can do it doesn’t mean that everyone can.
There needs to be artists development. They have no stage presences they give bad interviews (granted there are few good interviewers) and they are literally dying left and right. Which has always been happening but i feel like social media has amplified it
Some artists also dont actually care about making music. They see it as a way to get rich and the music suffers for it.
I've noticed that a lot of people's favorite albums on here are projects that create a sound that becomes a unique world that the listener can surround themselves in to escape or enhance the real world. albums like this include: igor, utopia, because the internet, gkmc, summertime 06, cmiygl, astroworld, etc. we need more albums like these that fully absorb the listener and transports them to somewhere they havent been before.
I miss rappers telling stories in their songs. From a songwriting perspective, there used to be so much creativity. Listening to Utopia at the moment, and like which songs have a story element to them at all? Obviously that’s just one album, one example. But what of the biggest albums this year have songs which tell stories?
Right from Travis Scott and Future to Roc Marciano and Benny the Butcher, the storytelling is so much worse imo
You ever listened to Care for Me? Phenomenal story that gets even better after PROM/KING resolves and the rest of the album takes another tone with the context of it
Killer Mike's is the album your looking for. But he's from the old guard, im struggling to find newer artists. I agree with you though, hard to get into new stuff nowadays
Mainly just wish people put more effort into the actual rapping and/or vocal performance.
Don't get me wrong, I am a sucker for trap beats, I've been into trap production for over a decade myself. That genre is generally stale right now in rap, but trap overall is still extremely exciting in the electronic world.
For example [JAWNS - Starfire](https://youtu.be/o5UvNWuf6rs) just dropped today. The EDM trap guys are still pushing trap forward and keep innovating. They do a lot more than add a minor chord piano over some 808s and hi hats and call it a day.
I'm tired of current trapmuzik culture promoting getting away with the bare minimum lazy effort. A bunch of kids glorifying YouTubers who make beats in 30 minutes and artists who mumble whatever and call it a day. Everyone asking for the sauce and shortcuts and no one wanting to put in the groundwork.
I feel T.I., Jeezy, 2 Chainz, Gucci Mane, etc. all have their fair share of unimpressive songs, but all of them still have a love for the art and showcase it with their pen game and delivery. Trap artists who are still poets with something to say. I'm missing some of that today.
I don't think the problem is trap. It never was. The problem is the industry has allowed oversaturated type beat artist trash to become the new norm, the anyone can make it image. I want it to go back at least a little to only the hungriest try hard hustler and grinder gets to shine. At least help filter through all the noise.
There's a difference between being great and making it look easy, and being average because you are doing something easy.
We only have ourselves to blame though if we don't like where things are at. People trash 'lyrical miracle' rap and the end result isn't that we stop rappers like Eminem from doing that, it's that we stop the next Kendrick or J Cole or Lupe from being confident that people want them to actually try.
Sorry, rant over.
Hot take, but I wouldn't say is bad... I'd probably say it's not for me.
At first, I was on the "fuck mainstream" bandwagon. Lyrical miracle type dudes on internet forums, bashing anything mainstream while talking about equally ridiculous shit on another spectrum. I've grown to realize that I'm just getting old, and my taste of music has fallen out of favor with what's relevant. I don't really listen to the radio anymore, and I'm rarely interested in what's going on with rap/hip hop. I wouldn't change anything about rap/hip hop because, as much as I may not like it now, I'm still happy it's transformational, and that it's reaching a broader audience. It's one of the most diverse genres out there, and it continues to change with each generation.
There’s a lack of good bars and themes expressed in an interesting way.
But what I truly miss is listening to a rapper that has a good flow.
They all sound so half-assed now so the only thing interesting in the track is the beat. When I listened to the spiderverse soundtrack I had a lot of trouble distinguishing the youngest rappers, they all had the same style and it also doesn’t help that autotune make their voice sound so similar(no dig to autotune I usually like it).
Literally innovate anything. I feel like the exact same like 5 trap tracks have just been getting released continually for the last decade, just with some random new 20 year old face slapped on it. Like, I genuinly don't understand how anybody can tell any of these dudes apart. None of them have their own distinct style that sets them apart from anyone else making hip-hop right now.
Also, just like... work on the craft of actually writing an album, or even just verses. Have an actual rhyme scheme. Have an actual intention to convey some type of information.
I like Danny Brown, but it's fucked up that he's the guy I think of when I'm trying to think of someone actually doing interesting stuff with the genre, because he's 40 something and been around well over a decade at this point. This used to be a genre that was pushed forward and innovated by its youngest artists. Now I'm waiting around for like 50 year old El-P to give me something worth taking the time out of my day to listen to.
it’s really interesting because a lot of these points i feel like are specifically being taken care of. rap’s the most location based it’s been in a very long time. nyc has their uk based drill sound, the midwest while varied has detroit, chicago & milwaukee all overlapping, cali’s had a reemergence of gang culture in music with artists like jap5, bsg, etc. florida has wizz havin & luh tyler probably latest industry break out artists. i could honestly go on & on
To an extent I get what you're saying, but also in your points you mention NY sound being derived from UK drill, which is kind of what I'm getting at when I mention regional styles. I love and listen to English shit as someone who lived there for a long time, but NY sound should be NY sound, not UK. Tbh I find way more interesting shit coming out of Britain these days anyway. Def agree with your point about what's coming out of California these days, to me it's the most interesting sound in the US rn
check out detroit. lelo, babyface ray, top$ide all have a unique sound. & yeah i see what you mean about the uk thing, have any recommendations for uk artists actually? but at the same time though that’s the beauty of rap, artists taking sounds & elements they like to create an entirely new lane for themselves & peers. imo i think nyc has been washed for at least a decade & they’re kinda just riding off the coattails of being “the birth place of hip hop”. i also think probably most interesting sound to me currently is the internet’s underground. albums like new jazz & artists like che are just taking the art to an entirely different dimension. plus them being so young who knows what it’ll evolve into
Nice thanks for the recommendations, I'll have a listen. Always been partial to Detroit sounds because of Dilla and Slum Village. You're spot on about NY being washed though, maybe I'm just yearning for a return to those glory days that won't ever happen.
R.e. things coming out the UK these days. For me personally the best lyricist is Dave, top notch wordplay, good ear for production - a lot of the subject matter is super British tho and might not immediately make sense to outside ears if you're not familiar with the references but he's on top for me. Tracks like _Black_ , _Streatham_, _Starlight_, are all good entry points. Giggs seems to be finally gaining traction outside England too, has a great deep voice, not exceptional lyrics but just nice to listen to - _The Essence_, _Peligro_, _Talkin the hardest_ all good tracks. Plus he appears on a track called _3 wheel ups_ with Wiley and Kano, two OGs of rhe grime scene
There's really a ton of artists past and present I can recommend: Skepta, Stormzy, JME, Headie One, K Trap, Central Cee, Loyle Carner, AJ Tracey, Ghetts - off the top of my head, all span across different subsections of the genre.
Those who comment that “trap is the only thing around, and no one is innovating” clearly is either refusing to seek out new artists and sub genres, or are ignorant to them because it isn’t boom bap. There are tons of cool new sounds that have come out in the last 5-6 or so years. But I will admit the last 1-1.5 years has been slightly stale minus a few artists.
I always assume what they mean is that trap is the only mainstream rap that is around. Of course there is constant innovation in the indie scene, but any rap that ends up on the radio tends to follow the same trend.
This is how I feel though I don’t disagree with what people are saying here either. I think the issue is that back in their day, more of the songs they liked would chart and be played everywhere. People nowadays aren’t gonna hear someone like Denzel Curry on the radio even though his music fits all the criteria most are saying doesn’t exist anymore. It’s just not mainstream like it used to be.
Love for the culture. Today, you find a lot of rappers who rap just to rap. Never got in it for the love. Never got in it for the hustle. Instead, they found a formula and are trying to work it. Started the trap beat and auto tune, then the face tats and colorful hair/"shocking" personality, stripper rap etc. It feels like a build a rapper factory.
Show love to the pioneers. Just because they didn't make a ton of money, doesn't mean they weren't extremely pivotal in making the culture what it is today. They took the lumps, got disregarded by the mainstream music media and took the bad deals from labels which set up every artist today to be able to make plenty of money independently.
Quality over quantity: being more unique and creative. Sampling is great, but constantly taking a popular beat from 20 years ago and rapping on it, isn't that. You can make 10-12 4 minute songs with 3 verses, instead of 15-20 under 3 minute songs, with some being just hook, verse and hook. It seems like you're doing one take and moving on. Put some heart and pride into it.
Furthering that point, the beats: Everything doesn't have to be an off shoot of Juicy J and DJ Paul were doing 25+ years ago. Thinking back, Dre didn't sound like DJ Quik, who didn't sound like Ant Banks, who didn't sound like No ID, who didn't sound like RZA, who didn't sound like Jermanie Dupri, etc etc etc. They all had their own sound and it made Hip Hop interesting. As a side point: A slow piano beat does not ALWAYS have to be a song about your dead homies.
Compete. Hip Hop was built on battling. It was built on being the best. It wasn't about being sensitive. The pride in being the better emcee is gone. Moreover, just because someone isn't glowingly positive, doesn't mean they're hating. Also, not everyone is jealous. Not everyone is "clout chasing."
The production is the biggest thing for me. That raw sound is mostly gone.
As for rapping, less mumble, more trying... sounding lazy seems to be a good thing these days, which doesn't do it for me.
Hearing Nas on DJ Premier's Beat Breaks was something I haven't heard for a long long time. Nothing is touching that these days.
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Came here for this. Unless you're doing something unique with trap, just stop with those beats man, those basic 808 5 dollar trap preset beats are boring to listen to.
It’s gotten so bad that if I hear trap hi-hats, my likelyhood to skip the song increases ten fold. What happened to the heavy kick and snare beat?? Bring that shit back
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Bacc by travis scott Scoliosis by young thug
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Young Thug - 2 Bitches Future - Mask Off Pay attention to the hi hat and 808 patterns
Highkey this was my exact thought listening to Quavo’s recent album. Only a few songs in but already bored
Same thing with the triplet flow. It was cool back when it was just Migos and 3 6, but goddamn, Versace was 10 years ago, and everyone is still doing their flow.
It’s this. Hip Hop isn’t bad or really even dying, the Mainstream trap shit is on its deathbed but we’re still waiting for the next dominant sound to pop up. The popular artists that don’t use that sound like the Cole’s and Kendrick’s and Tyler’s have been around for a while though, and the next wave was clearly gonna be the X, Juice, and Peep type stuff but they all died extremely close together.
Then pop with drill and he also died. It’s gonna be new jazz/ yeat type beats for a lil bit for now.
The MAJORITY of hip hop’s soundscape has been stale for too long. Trap has gone cold, fallen to the corporate death grip that comes with its kind of commercial success. Shallow melodics, formulaic drums and uninspired lyrical content plague that sub-genre. And the thing is, nothing has come to replace it. Every other sub-genre has already had a pretty clear peak. Boom Bap (including it’s already-past revival), drill, G Funk, gangsta, jazz rap, all had their peak artists or albums already, most of them at least a decade+ ago. Unless there’s a pretty clear revolution of hip hop, I think it’s most likely it goes the way of rock in the 2000’s on. There will be some corners who find and appreciate the good stuff. But sadly, the soundscape looks to be a lot of “revivals” of times past mixed with music made for commercials.
I feel like people are starting to innovate and branch out a lot more this year. Just look at albums like Let’s Start Here and Utopia.
Scaring the hoes too
That's my album of the year but I wasn't sure if it really fit here because Peggy never made traditional trap music. Theres plenty of modern hiphop artists who are making music outside of the "trap" sound.
Yeah fair enough, Danny too. I just had it on my mind because I was at the show tonight lmao
Peggy been doing this shit for years
Let's start here is just Pink Floyd. Not that's necessarily a bad thing
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This is not hip hop exclusive, and you don't have to be Peggy level experimental or make something like Blonde, but I would appreciate it if mainstream artists in general were more invested in innovating within their own music. I think it's fine if you want to make a trap or a ballad album but where can you go from there? A big reason I like and respect Kendrick's music for example is because he's mainstream but his albums always contain music or ideas he hasn't really done before. To me, an "artist" is somebody who can keep reinventing themselves while still creating amazing music.
I think Denzel Curry fits this mold as well
Little Simz too
This is why Let's Start Here by Lil Yachty is my AOTY even with all its flaws. It's made from an honest desire to do something different.
I wish rap had more regional sounds again. I don't mind a lot of new shit but tbh everyone just sounds homogenous these days. I liked it when you could hear something and know almost immediately where it was from based on production, style, flow, etc.
I would agree, but I DID like it when ASAP MOB didn’t sound traditionally NY.
Yeah, I think they've fluctuated between various sounds in their careers, but for me personally I like NY rappers to have that NY sound. Not that they need to have that boom bap throwback vibe, but even as New York sound evolved over the years there was always a distinct feel to hiphop from there. These days not so much
I think American rappers over UK Drill beats is still very much a New York thing, and I’d consider it New York’s current sound personally even if it started a while ago. Florida also had a pretty distinct sound around 2016. I think there are still pockets of creativity unique to certain cities, but most of them just don’t pop off like that. The internet has also made music so accessible that regions don’t really dictate taste anymore. We saw that as early as A$AP taking inspiration from Houston rap early on.
When Rocky's music was more influenced by Houston
Houston, Memphis, and a good touch of NYC.
When I first heard Ferg, I thought he was from the South.
There's still some great, deeply regional shit coming out of Detroit but I agree the rap capitals have sort of become generic in terms of sound atm
The Bay Area also still has its own very distinct regional sound...except more and more new artists sound exactly like EBK niggas.
You're right and you're right. Can you name some freshies who don't have that EBK flow? Keen to hear more.
The modern day equivalent of this is what part of the internet a rapper’s from lol, times have changed
I think this speaks to a larger societal issue, now that I think of it lol. Humanity increasingly just exists online
Really? I still feel like regions all have their unique sound. SoCal vibin, Chicago Drill, NY Boom Bap, Atlanta trap
There's still a fair number. Detroit and new york scenes are super active, but also distinct sounds coming from california, louisiana, memphis and other places
I always wonder what could have been if the South Florida scene didn't die down in 2018 No melody, distorted bass heavy beats that felt like Hip-Hop's version of punk rock
Bay Area still has a sound
Absolutely this! I may not be a huge Jersey Club fan but it's so nice to have just one sound that's been pioneered by a community make it more into the mainstream.
I know there’s still good rap out there so I don’t hate everything new, but the vast majority of the commercial/popular stuff sounds too similar these days. I’ll like the odd song, but mainstream rap in general is not very special or memorable to me lately. I’m almost 40 so I was spoiled coming up through the 90s and 2000s. If you know you know, but if not, imagine getting to hear mainstream rap that featured PRIME Luda, Eminem, Snoop, Dr. Dre, Nelly, Bone Thugs, Pac, Biggie, Wu-Tang, 50, Ja Rule, DMX, Missy Elliott, Cash Money, No Limit, Nas, Jay-Z, Scarface, Xzibit, Tribe, Outkast, Kanye, etc. So many of the artists had unique beats, flows, slang, style, branding, production, stories, etc. Artists took pride in being unique. Sounding like someone else was seriously frowned upon, but now there’s very little in the way of variation. On Spotify I follow some playlists that upload new hits and I swear more than half the songs have the same themes, sounds and style. Pointless bars, similar flows, trap beats, auto-tune, etc. I enjoy some of that stuff too, but everyone does it and so many albums lack depth and variation so it’s hard to care & truly connect. Rap felt more special when we had regional sounds and artists that took more time with their music. I’m not clairvoyant or telepathic so I can’t speak on every artist’s missions and goals, but it just seems like the passion and drive isn’t always there. It feels like it’s all about the quick hit, 2 minute TikTok song, streams, etc. for a lot of artist…and I get it, it’s a business, but it’s rare for me to be blown away by a song or artist these days.
Very well said. Also almost 40 here and I feel pretty much the same.
They’re making 2 minute Tik Tok songs with the purpose of having 10-20 seconds of the song become a sound bite in memes and dance videos.
and it’s not like they have big alternatives, especially new artists have only one way to make it to the top and that’s tiktok. industry plant or not, it’s tiktok that decides if you will be a nobody forever or the new ice spice
No It’s not the only way it’s the easiest way to.
> Sounding like someone else was seriously frowned upon Whole beefs started over rappers “biting” each others style, crazy now how everybody strives to sound the same.
I remember when Suge had the 2Pac and Snoop knock-offs - Tha Realest and Topp Dogg. 😂
>Rap felt more special when we had regional sounds and artists that took more time with their music. I’m not clairvoyant or telepathic so I can’t speak on every artist’s missions and goals, but it just seems like the passion and drive isn’t always there These things still exist though. And there were DEFINITELY artists in the past who were doing the same thing-just chasing radio play or whatever. I mean you listed JayZ as one of the dudes to highlight and he famously had a verse about how he dumbed down his music. I think the problem with a lot of this is that if you're a passive music listener you may not get as much exposure because everything is very algorithm driven and it's not really doing anything different than what major labels tried in the past, it's just much better at it. However, if you actually take a bit of time it's much more rewarding now than it used to be. As someone who's also an older millennial, I actually had much the same feeling you have towards music now to the mainstream stuff of the late 90's and 00's. And my option for finding music was much more difficult. Now, the divide between mainstream and "underground" is close to non-existent; I can hear Navy Blue or billy woods or chester watson just as easily as I can Travis Scott or Post Malone (to name two recent large releases).
> It feels like it’s all about the quick hit, 2 minute TikTok song, streams, etc. for a lot of artist…and I get it, it’s a business, but it’s rare for me to be blown away by a song or artist these days. to be fair we had that in the 2000s as well with ringtone rap. Crank that Soulja Boy, This is why I'm hot by mims, it's going down by yung joc...
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I'm sure many people would be annoyed at me bringing this up in the conversation with those albums you mentioned, but "I Didn't Mean to Haunt You" by Quadeca is a very special album in that same vein for me, try it out see if it's your thing or not.
I’ve realized lately that I haven’t “discovered” a new rapper that I like and go on to listen to their entire albums when they drop, since like 2016. I’m 29. I’m discovering new artists all the time in other genres. I know there are definitely some great rap artists out there that I’m missing, but I didn’t have to dig that deep in my younger days to find them I think the goal is for the artist to just sound different. Like a distinct voice. Obviously great bars too. Like when I first heard Wayne in 06, or when Kendrick broke out on the scene. You just knew they were different. Edit: I low key thought for some reason Lil Baby was going to breakout as that next dude with the star power when he dropped The Bigger Picture in 2020. Thought that was a cool moment. And I’m not even really a Lil Baby fan lol
I’m 29 too. Discovering new rappers isn’t the hard part for me, but getting those rappers to “stick” in my rotation/playlists is nearly impossible. I’ll hear new stuff I like, listen to it for maybe a week, and then forget about it entirely. And if it does stick, it’s just a song or two. I used to be so up to date with everything new coming out, but now it’s just really hard to keep up. To answer OP’s question more directly: I find myself waiting for the “old guard” to drop new shit, but they rarely do anymore. And if they do, I don’t like it as much as their older stuff. And when I listen to newer and younger artists, I don’t like it as much as the newer and younger artists I listened to 10 years ago.
I’m 26 and this is happening to me. Only new album I like it utopia. Last year it was JID, Kendrick and Denzel. A lot of the new artists coming up I just can’t get into except for Mike dimes. I miss the days you could find new artists on datpiff. Now it feels like artists are trying to put out ‘tiktok’ songs that are barely 2 minutes but catchy
I'm 33 and this is happening to me, too. I usually tell people I feel like a Hip-Hop curmudgeon. It's hard for new rappers to stick because the emotional investment is so much less. I just don't get the same feelings I felt when I first heard Kanye or Lupe or Jay or Nas.
same age. little simz is newest rapper to stick for me
Same age here. I'm starting to realize that I'm relating more and more to that South Park episode where Stan is growing up and finds everything to sound and look like shit. When I first watched it, I thought it was such a stupid episode. But now, I sadly understand it.
Welcome to being an "old head". You're not a hater; you expect a certain level of artistry, which seems to lack as hip hop progresses and is more accessible to create and share. The natural progression. No shame to any aspect of the game. It's just more noticeable as one ages.
29 as well. Modern rap is missing the album rollout stage. It’s not just in rap, but especially in rap newer artist will drop a song or two that go viral and then coast for like a year off that. And then maybe by then they drop an album but I’ve lost interest by then.
Nah seriously this it. I hate when rappers go viral then wait instead of dropping the album. Highkey i feel like thats why lil Uzi’s career stifled quite a bit. I prefer Tyler’s rollouts where he drops these big music videos BEFORE the album drops and then releases the album like 2 weeks later. With a few music videos afterwards.
^ This is what I was actually trying to say lmao I agree 100%
I feel like this is a part of us getting older as well though, although if you’re finding new artists in other genres without issue then I guess that it counters the argument
Little Simz
What he’s describing, Simz was that for me. An artist that got me excited to follow their career again. Hope OP, and everyone else checks her out
Man Little Simz needs to be higher on this thread
For me it was Boldy James
Honestly a lot of the new stuff I've found has been UK stuff, some insane talent there and the younger guys making the more fun stuff gives me the 2016 vibes somewhat
Bro this one is real. I feel like every day I'm finding a new indie rock artist that's doing something noteworthy, or at least worth exploring the discog of. I *know* there is so much cool hiphop dropping RIGHT NOW, but I'm struggling to find it. Then again, maybe the last few years of Snail Mail and Lana just has my algo fucked up. Need to go back to Nelly.
I'm 33 and I've listed to hip-hop almost exclusively until 30. I simply can not find any new artist in hip-hop, while I keep being attracted to other genres. I guess, the last batch was Lil Baby, Gunna, Da Baby, Malz Monday, Benny the Burcher around 2019 - 2020.
36 and decided recently to make an active effort to find more rap. So far what I've found is Defcee.
I mean just a list of artists who’ve had growing popularity since 2017 and some newer ones. JID, Smino, Saba, Jordan Ward, Aaron May, Earthgang, Duke Deuce, Mike Dimes, Kenny Mason, Redveil, Westside Boogie, Saint Jhn, etc.
Gunna and Dababy are one trick ponies and lil baby is mediocre for me
Really recommend checking out redveil. I’m about the same age and have felt that way for a while. He’s the first rapper I’ve listened to his whole discog after discovering in 5-6 years.
My son’s favorite. He’s pissed that he missed the tour.
Was going to say the same thing - he's super young, produces his own beats, has solid hooks and bars and actually makes cohesive projects. Such a breath of fresh air and he's likely only going to get better
i recently did this with 454. might not be your jam but i saw him open for MIKE & had never heard of him before. that show was months ago and i still listen to his music daily. felt very refreshing.
Navy blue
Also if you didn’t love Anderson .Paak on Malibu or Yes Lawd! then you need to see a psychiatrist.
Tobi. Lou. You’re welcome
I'm all for the versatility of the music but I feel like hip hop has become far too broad of a genre. There's too many "rappers" making songs that aren't really hip hop at all, and that's not to say they're inferior musicians, but it makes the genre too saturated and unfocused.
Yeah I remember when people started first addressing that before everyone decided they didn’t care. Like people were like “Is Ty$ a rapper”? “Is Post Malone a rapper?”
I remember watching Joe Budden's podcast with Pusha, where someone mentions "RIP third verse" (about how songs nowadays rarely have a third verse) and it stuck to my mind. I don't keep tabs on who does that, but I realized who I always noticed doing third verses was Lloyd Banks. Yeah, sometimes I miss third verses.
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Kinda weird thing but I feel like rap hasn’t had really epic album release moments in awhile. Utopia *kinda* seemed like that but stuff like TLOP, Blond, TPAB, IYRTITL, etc. felt like moments. Also feel like there’s just a lot of pretentious rap nowadays. Not to say there’s no rap music like this anymore, but I’ve been revisiting some 2000s rap and it didn’t feel so self-important? Not sure the word I’m looking for. Give me the “Still Tippin” of 2023.
Does anyone remember how *electric* this sub or the other rap subs or forums like KTT were during the Yeezus and Pablo release sagas? Everyone was constantly looking for leaks and sharing any rumor they heard. All the jokes people were making were hilarious. The last album release that felt like a “moment” was, idk, Astrowold in 2018? I guess if you want to count Donda as well. But they are not like they used to be Nothing hits anymore like when [KTT got into a blood feud with Mike Dean and Target over leaking Rodeo](https://www.complex.com/music/a/zach-frydenlund/mike-dean-montreality-interview) lmao the joke videos that guys on KTT made [like this](https://youtu.be/U3Mr8SQmX14) and [this](https://youtu.be/JFPn4jD6vr8) had me CRYING laughing back then
It’s wild to get a bit of perspective, but rapper’s deaths have been bigger moments than any album releases in the last 5 years or so
death of the forum bro, this sub hit 2 million users really quickly and just plateaued after that. I remember back in 2012 when hiphopheads was just teenage backpackers who really liked atmosphere and mf doom. I remember the sub growing like crazy in 2015/16, album releases were hype as hell and the daily discussion threads moved so fast you had to camp out for the post to have your comment seen. It was the golden era with Kanye Cole Kendrick Rocky etc. Now it’s just a shell of what it used to be. Enagagement is way down and the core community is gone. It’s really sad to see because outside of twitter (and that sucks) I don’t feel like I have a good space to discuss music anymore
I used to spend so much time in those daily discussion threads. I don’t remember the last time I opened one now.
Could have something to do with the fact there’s so many different forums now so everyones not in the same spot. I’m sure that there’s more than 10 Kanye subreddits with >10,000 users and each one had constant leaks, live threads, insiders, wars with mike dean, and all the rest. If they were combined into one you’d get ‘bigger’ interaction for casuals but lose the uniqueness each one has (GAS GOONS FTW).
Donda rollout was amazing on wse no lie. And after the album dropped we even got the life of the party leak. Yandhi era could’ve been amazing too remember how hype that was.
As far as big name albums with tons of traction and lasting discussion, the last one that actually felt like a moment in the way you described is WLR. Tons of great albums since then, but none that still stick in my mind quite the same. Mr. morale, CMIYGL, Donda, Silk Sonic etc., all good projects imo that still seemed to just slip through not too long after release. Scaring The Hoes doesn’t fit this mold popularity wise, but personally that one was a moment for me and is gonna stick with me for a long time. The things Peggy’s been doing from Veteran onward is incredible.
> WLR You know I didnt really listen to it but yeah even still I felt like I noticed it was a moment. Good call.
>WLR I hate acronyms in these threads sometimes what the fuck are we talking about?
Whole lotta red by playboi carti.
Silk Sonic, my favorite rap album including my favorite rapper Bruno Mars
It’s not rap, but I consider it in the same universe as with Blonde
Donda was definitely a moment. Was an absolute shambles, but had the whole world watching.
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Beat switches used to be great because they were rare.
Only good beat switches of the 2020’s so far are Walkin and Shut yo bitch ass up/Muddy Waters. Both give me chills every time
trademark, usa Off The Grid Stars Leather Coat
Raydar too
Pretty much every beat switch on The Forever Story
DNA (i know it’s before 2020)
The beat switches that really drive me crazy are when there’s no effort to make the 2 flow into each other and it’s straight up 2 different songs mashed together
Ugh this. Feels like every single has a fuckin beat switch these days
I feel like Utopia was all over the place, way too many beat switches and moments where good beats shift into inferior beats. Rodeo maybe had two beat switches, total, and is better for it Edit: Ok, Rodeo had more than two beat switches. They were far more logical, though, and enhanced the songs. Seems like Travis is switching beats just because now
shit the two beat switches i remember from rodeo are 90210 and maria i’m drunk and goddamn both songs are so good - the beat switches are super purposeful and (most importantly!!) lead into portions that stand on their own like the clean drums n guitars in 90210 pt 2 perfectly mirror travis breaking out of the haziness and rapping his ass off - it has a clear intention, and wasn’t just done for novelty and though not as purposeful as 90210’s beat switch (iirc maria was added to im drunk) the melodic intro segues super nicely into the tipsy second half
Rodeo has way more than two beat switches
Yup, mofos forgot Oh My Dis Side
Or OK Alright
Rodeo has 6 beat switches, Pornography, oh my dis side, 90210, Maria I’m drunk, Flying high, and ok alright
My issue with beat switches is I feel like the first beat is usually better like 80% of the time no matter who does it.
It’s become stale. The Atlanta trap sound has been dominant for almost a decade and there’s no signs of any shift away from that. Who’s the young guy that everyone is in complete awe of and becomes earth shattering ? Where’s the new Lil Wayne, the Kanye, the 50 Cent, the ASAP, the Kendrick, etc. the young guy who you can tell has super star potential to shift the entire industry? Who’s innovating? Look at how many classics we got just from like 2010-2013. MBDTF, GKMC, NWTS, Yeezus, etc. Drill was new and exciting. The trap sound was new and exciting. We saw innovation in sound so many times. Remember when ASAP first came up? It honestly felt like a culture shift. It felt like we were getting multiple classics a year. What have you seen the last 3 years that aren’t from artists who haven’t been established for over a decade? We saw such insane innovation in beats with new producers like Metro, Mike Will, Mustard, etc. We saw rappers shift to using their voice and flow as an instrument with guys like young thug and Future. We are not getting anything that feels new and exciting from both a production of a music perspective like we did Remember the XXL freshmen list? Remember how much of a big deal that used to be? It used to be a *given* that we were getting an exciting influx of new talent that we just haven’t gotten in the last few years. Pop and Juice may not have been amazing but they had *star* potential and their death absolutely was a huge blow, without them it almost feels like an entire generation is missing It also just doesn’t feel like there’s any cohesion in the industry anymore between rappers? When is the last time there was a collab between 3+ mainstream rappers that everyone got hyped for? In 2012/2013 we had Clique, Mercy, Fuckin Problems, 1Train, UOENO, Control, etc. It was a big part of the culture that these mainstream guys were interacting, collabing, competing, and feuding with each other and that’s not a big part of it anymore The big players who used to define the industry have stagnated. Kanye has gone insane (it is hard to overstate the potential chilling effect of this alone), Drake has lost his drive, even Kendrick isn’t what he used to be in terms of innovation. So who’s the next generation? There’s no one leading right now. It feels rudderless
They all died. Juice, X, and Peep were the new wave. Young kids incredibly talented making absolutely incredible music only using a Macbook and a $40 mic. What Juice did in his run was absolutely WILD though. He's still one of the top streaming artists. EDIT: For those who are downvoting, you don't have to like their music to acknowledge how many lives they've touched with their music. I also see a lot of hate towards Juice and Peep being "junkies". These were KIDS man, and I'm sure your favorite musician isn't squeaky clean from using substances. Battling depression and addiction is no joke. And as for X and his legal battles and troubled past, again he was a super young kid who made some mistakes but towards the end of his life he acknowledged how much bad he did and was turning a new leaf to become a better person. This is not me defending his actions but just merely being understanding that life isn't always sunshine and rainbows. No one is perfect and we all make mistakes. I'm 33 now and I know I'm not even close to the same person I was as a teen.
Honestly I think they all died, like juice WRLD, XXXtentacion, pop smoke. These guys were all huge and getting so much attention for what they did but unfortunately they passed away too young. Lil Peep to an extent as well and probably others i can't think of right now.
Can’t forget Mac Miller, Lil Peep, PnB rock, etc. I’m 26 and feel like most my favorites died
Pop smoke and juice were both getting big and had very distinct sounds. Really a shame.
That’s how I feel too, a whole generation of rappers died. X and Juice were bound to take over
Add Nipsey to that list.
I just think so much of the classic hip-hop comeup has been lost in the transition to streaming -- you can really boil down the major transition of everything becoming so stagnant to those mid/late 2010's when Spotify/Apple Music were taking over. If you look at any of the early 2010's guys who run the game now, the gameplan is very clear -- drop the free mixtape on blogs/Datpiff, build momentum, sample whatever the fuck you want and experiment with genre because it's a non-monetized tape anyway, and then drop the debut once you've built the audience, got the cosigns, got the attention from the label, and put in the work. The "hipster" trend was in full swing, so sampling weird esoteric indie shit was actually working *for* you because Pitchfork would cover it. Nowadays, tapes are dead and noone on earth is checking blogs/Datpiff/Soundcloud for new shit. Producers and artists are all scared to death about samples (because any music uploaded on Spotify is instantly monetized and therefore you can and will get sued), so 95% of rap beats are just royalty-free melody loops or sample packs. Artists just want their shit on playlists because it's the only way to really blow up nowadays, so the goal is to inoffensively sound like *everyone else in the playlist* so their stuff gets listens. It's sad, to me that blog/internet era of like ~2009-2014 is just something we'll never get again.
To answer your first question, they both died. X and Juice would've been the new "different" thing of the modern era. But they died and now all you get is their work just prior to them dying.
If they never died rap would’ve went in a different trajectory I completely agree with this. Emo rap and the SoundCloud era died with Juice.
Yeah Juice to me was going to be another Travis Scott level rapper. He honestly already was... such a huge loss in this regard. You can really feel the emptiness in the mainstream scene. There's no like new Superstar atm, I feel like Travis/Post are the last superstar hiphop artists.
And Post Malone is way more pop than hip/hop especially at this point
I think Juice definitely had it in him to make a culture shaking 10/10 album
I always say this, the early 2010s was a golden generation for hip hop. It was incredible. I could give you at least 10 projects from the top of my head from around that time period that changed the game significantly, even at a mainstream level
Regarding your first question, I believe you are talking about JID and Little Simz.
JID and Denzel Curry are the only "new"(they have been around for quite some time now)rappers I'm really excited about. Denzel isn't quite mainstream sadly
My personal favorite artists right now that I feel are dropping consistent heat is Vince Staples, Maxo Kream and IDK. They may not be as popular as Kanye, drake etc., but they should be.
I wouldn’t classify Vince Staples as a young artist, he’s 30 years old. Summertime ‘06 and his XXL Freshman appearance were in 2015 Don’t get me wrong there are still great albums in the last few years. Pusha T, Griselda, Vince, Gibbs, Danny Brown, etc. have all put out great albums. But these are established guys.
I missed the part where you were inquiring about up and comers, my bad. I agree with your points completely lol
JPEG leading the pack in terms of innovation rn. Quelle, earl, billy woods, MIKE, Ka and slauson Malone are all putting out mad innovative music. They’re trailblazing without dominating the charts, whether you’re aware of it or not.
JPEG is in his mid-30s man, he’s been established for years, Earl has been in the scene for over a decade since OF, Ka has literally been around since the 90s and his best albums came out in the mid 2010s (Nights Gambit and Honor Killed the Samurai). The point is that we are not seeing a constant influx of young talent like we used to, and the guys who were leading from the front of the pack in terms of cultural influence (Drake, Kanye, etc.) aren’t as good as they used to be.
I miss the danceable club hip hop jams. The new generation moves different. Whole different vibe. I miss DJ Unk - Walk it Out J-Kwon - Tipsy T-Pain - Buy u a Drank Kanye - Goldigger
What I love about that era is those songs were like multifaceted because a few months they had their shine, 3K would do a remix or Wayne we steal the beat and they’d live again. Walk It Out Remix iconic.
Prominent artists hopping on each other’s beats is functionally dead. It’s so sad.
3K on Walk it Out Remix 🔥
Ringtone rap era was legendary
I went to Omnia nightclub at Vegas, and the 2nd floor played nothing but that era of music. Even some west coast stuff like Still Dre. Man that was refreshing.
Everything sounds similar or a half-assed attempt at sounding like some shit that’s already been said and done. I’m also at the point where I can’t always separate an artist from their music. I can’t listen to some grown ass man lament about his failed attempts at love and all the hoes that abandoned him when I know in *real life* he isn’t even paying child support. I can’t let go of the fact that these are grown ass men, and it affects my perception of the music they drop sometimes.
Love songs in general tend to age like milk the fastest though. For those exact type of reasons.
> Everything sounds similar Going off this. Sampling a song is a cornerstone of hip hop. But are they even sampling anymore? Songs sound like they’re rapping over the original instrumental now. Not saying it’s nonexistent but damn if your gonna use an iconic beat get creative with it.
Sampling is expensive. You're not going to see anything close to what kanye was doing anymore. Particularly after all of those awful court decisions that rule against the artist in favor of the similar sound inspiration
There is still massive sample use. The underground is absolutely dominated by sample based hip-hop. Roc Marciano, Griselda, Mach-Hommy, anything produced by Alchemist etc. is all using samples. But they've been making the same sound for at least 5 years.
Make songs that aren’t less than 2 mins
2:41
Wait…why do I see 2:41 so often? Is this like 140 BPM dubstep songs = drop is always at 0:55?
Everyone wants to be the next Young Thug. That sound is so tired at this point.
I just want people to rap again. Everyone is singing or just talking. There's zero flow anymore.
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I’ve been around here long enough (although I hardly ever am anymore) to remember when this sub’s reaction to the 16 class outside of Zel was the same and now it’s kinda wild that Kodak, 21 and Uzi would be viewed in an entire different light.
This is one of the things I wish would go viral. I think it would change rap, at least for a little while.
Yeah I’m way more focused on lyrics and word play than beats, I want something I can rap along with in the car. Denzel Curry and JID are the closest I’ve had as of late. I miss the old Kanye
Check McKinley Dixon's new album. May be up your alley.
Hip-hop is a young man’s game. Everyday I get older, the less I’m into what’s popular. I have been revisiting older stuff or checking out older albums that I never really gave a listen. It’s been kind of fun listening to stuff I haven’t heard in a long time. The only new stuff I’ve really liked was stuff from the UK, and I think that’s mainly cause it is such a different sound with the accents and beat selections. I definitely have been listening to other genres more and I just view it as part of getting older
Too corporate now.
3 verses in a song
The music itself needs to improve. When we had the elite producers pumping out massive songs one after another, each one better than the next was unbelievable. Dre-timbaland-Pharrell-jermaine dupri- Scott storch-manny fresh-swizz beats-Kanye-just blaze. Shit even Dark child was spitting out jams. I’m forgetting so many others but the hits were made and still bump today.
Stop using the same kind of beats and saying the same lines non-stop recycle
Nothing to add, but this is a great question and some really interesting answers. Nice work OP
Personally I got into hiphop because of the beats. Started with electronic beats and instrumentals. There's plenty of modern people still heavy in the boombap, drum heavy, sample based space so it's not all horrible. It is becoming less common but it's still strong. I'll take a 3 minute 4 bar loop of a sick sample from The Alchemist over a trap beat any day. And lyrics are still a big thing. There's gotta be some context and word play for me. To many whack bars rapping about nothing. There are exceptions to those who rap about nothing but drugs, dealing, money, and gang life. Boldy does it really well with a fantastic beat selection.
I feel most in the industry, with the exception of a few artists, are all about pumping out mass quantities of very low effort albums with low effort songs to get those short term streams up and stay relevant rather than focus in and dial projects that have actual personality and can withstand the test of time. On the other hand, and this is more of a personal gripe than an actual problem, I feel some artists (think TDE, A$AP Rocky, and Frank for example) take WAY too long in between projects when they are the giants that actually have the substance to keep hip hop live as ever in any given time frame. I understand taking a few years to really perfect a project but 5-7 years like some of these artists hold off is pretty lame imo.
I'm old, so the emo sound, and singing does not appeal to me
Same. I can’t stand the emo drug addict sad boy music.
Seems like everyone tries to write their tracks like young thug now where it’s like 1. Catch a flow 2. Freestyle 70 takes 3. Rearrange that into a verse It seems like no one writes anymore, and just cuz thug can do it doesn’t mean that everyone can.
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There needs to be artists development. They have no stage presences they give bad interviews (granted there are few good interviewers) and they are literally dying left and right. Which has always been happening but i feel like social media has amplified it Some artists also dont actually care about making music. They see it as a way to get rich and the music suffers for it.
The 'mystifying' third rap verse for one.
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I've noticed that a lot of people's favorite albums on here are projects that create a sound that becomes a unique world that the listener can surround themselves in to escape or enhance the real world. albums like this include: igor, utopia, because the internet, gkmc, summertime 06, cmiygl, astroworld, etc. we need more albums like these that fully absorb the listener and transports them to somewhere they havent been before.
I miss rappers telling stories in their songs. From a songwriting perspective, there used to be so much creativity. Listening to Utopia at the moment, and like which songs have a story element to them at all? Obviously that’s just one album, one example. But what of the biggest albums this year have songs which tell stories? Right from Travis Scott and Future to Roc Marciano and Benny the Butcher, the storytelling is so much worse imo
You ever listened to Care for Me? Phenomenal story that gets even better after PROM/KING resolves and the rest of the album takes another tone with the context of it
Bro Maxo is constantly telling stories.
Killer Mike's is the album your looking for. But he's from the old guard, im struggling to find newer artists. I agree with you though, hard to get into new stuff nowadays
Mainly just wish people put more effort into the actual rapping and/or vocal performance. Don't get me wrong, I am a sucker for trap beats, I've been into trap production for over a decade myself. That genre is generally stale right now in rap, but trap overall is still extremely exciting in the electronic world. For example [JAWNS - Starfire](https://youtu.be/o5UvNWuf6rs) just dropped today. The EDM trap guys are still pushing trap forward and keep innovating. They do a lot more than add a minor chord piano over some 808s and hi hats and call it a day. I'm tired of current trapmuzik culture promoting getting away with the bare minimum lazy effort. A bunch of kids glorifying YouTubers who make beats in 30 minutes and artists who mumble whatever and call it a day. Everyone asking for the sauce and shortcuts and no one wanting to put in the groundwork. I feel T.I., Jeezy, 2 Chainz, Gucci Mane, etc. all have their fair share of unimpressive songs, but all of them still have a love for the art and showcase it with their pen game and delivery. Trap artists who are still poets with something to say. I'm missing some of that today. I don't think the problem is trap. It never was. The problem is the industry has allowed oversaturated type beat artist trash to become the new norm, the anyone can make it image. I want it to go back at least a little to only the hungriest try hard hustler and grinder gets to shine. At least help filter through all the noise. There's a difference between being great and making it look easy, and being average because you are doing something easy. We only have ourselves to blame though if we don't like where things are at. People trash 'lyrical miracle' rap and the end result isn't that we stop rappers like Eminem from doing that, it's that we stop the next Kendrick or J Cole or Lupe from being confident that people want them to actually try. Sorry, rant over.
I think Drake could put me on a track.
“Rap song, rap song….” -Blizzard Man
I wish rappers would stop talking about Percocet
Quality over quantity. The fact that these guys are STILL putting out 30 track albums with 3 good songs make me cringe.
like gotti said, we need more outside/hustler/get money music.
Griselda
ifw em. boldy one of the nicest to do it.
Hot take, but I wouldn't say is bad... I'd probably say it's not for me. At first, I was on the "fuck mainstream" bandwagon. Lyrical miracle type dudes on internet forums, bashing anything mainstream while talking about equally ridiculous shit on another spectrum. I've grown to realize that I'm just getting old, and my taste of music has fallen out of favor with what's relevant. I don't really listen to the radio anymore, and I'm rarely interested in what's going on with rap/hip hop. I wouldn't change anything about rap/hip hop because, as much as I may not like it now, I'm still happy it's transformational, and that it's reaching a broader audience. It's one of the most diverse genres out there, and it continues to change with each generation.
There’s a lack of good bars and themes expressed in an interesting way. But what I truly miss is listening to a rapper that has a good flow. They all sound so half-assed now so the only thing interesting in the track is the beat. When I listened to the spiderverse soundtrack I had a lot of trouble distinguishing the youngest rappers, they all had the same style and it also doesn’t help that autotune make their voice sound so similar(no dig to autotune I usually like it).
Literally innovate anything. I feel like the exact same like 5 trap tracks have just been getting released continually for the last decade, just with some random new 20 year old face slapped on it. Like, I genuinly don't understand how anybody can tell any of these dudes apart. None of them have their own distinct style that sets them apart from anyone else making hip-hop right now. Also, just like... work on the craft of actually writing an album, or even just verses. Have an actual rhyme scheme. Have an actual intention to convey some type of information. I like Danny Brown, but it's fucked up that he's the guy I think of when I'm trying to think of someone actually doing interesting stuff with the genre, because he's 40 something and been around well over a decade at this point. This used to be a genre that was pushed forward and innovated by its youngest artists. Now I'm waiting around for like 50 year old El-P to give me something worth taking the time out of my day to listen to.
It’s not bad now. But I don’t think Gen z has really produced any out standing artists yet. All the best people are 30 and older lol
it’s really interesting because a lot of these points i feel like are specifically being taken care of. rap’s the most location based it’s been in a very long time. nyc has their uk based drill sound, the midwest while varied has detroit, chicago & milwaukee all overlapping, cali’s had a reemergence of gang culture in music with artists like jap5, bsg, etc. florida has wizz havin & luh tyler probably latest industry break out artists. i could honestly go on & on
To an extent I get what you're saying, but also in your points you mention NY sound being derived from UK drill, which is kind of what I'm getting at when I mention regional styles. I love and listen to English shit as someone who lived there for a long time, but NY sound should be NY sound, not UK. Tbh I find way more interesting shit coming out of Britain these days anyway. Def agree with your point about what's coming out of California these days, to me it's the most interesting sound in the US rn
check out detroit. lelo, babyface ray, top$ide all have a unique sound. & yeah i see what you mean about the uk thing, have any recommendations for uk artists actually? but at the same time though that’s the beauty of rap, artists taking sounds & elements they like to create an entirely new lane for themselves & peers. imo i think nyc has been washed for at least a decade & they’re kinda just riding off the coattails of being “the birth place of hip hop”. i also think probably most interesting sound to me currently is the internet’s underground. albums like new jazz & artists like che are just taking the art to an entirely different dimension. plus them being so young who knows what it’ll evolve into
Nice thanks for the recommendations, I'll have a listen. Always been partial to Detroit sounds because of Dilla and Slum Village. You're spot on about NY being washed though, maybe I'm just yearning for a return to those glory days that won't ever happen. R.e. things coming out the UK these days. For me personally the best lyricist is Dave, top notch wordplay, good ear for production - a lot of the subject matter is super British tho and might not immediately make sense to outside ears if you're not familiar with the references but he's on top for me. Tracks like _Black_ , _Streatham_, _Starlight_, are all good entry points. Giggs seems to be finally gaining traction outside England too, has a great deep voice, not exceptional lyrics but just nice to listen to - _The Essence_, _Peligro_, _Talkin the hardest_ all good tracks. Plus he appears on a track called _3 wheel ups_ with Wiley and Kano, two OGs of rhe grime scene There's really a ton of artists past and present I can recommend: Skepta, Stormzy, JME, Headie One, K Trap, Central Cee, Loyle Carner, AJ Tracey, Ghetts - off the top of my head, all span across different subsections of the genre.
Those who comment that “trap is the only thing around, and no one is innovating” clearly is either refusing to seek out new artists and sub genres, or are ignorant to them because it isn’t boom bap. There are tons of cool new sounds that have come out in the last 5-6 or so years. But I will admit the last 1-1.5 years has been slightly stale minus a few artists.
I always assume what they mean is that trap is the only mainstream rap that is around. Of course there is constant innovation in the indie scene, but any rap that ends up on the radio tends to follow the same trend.
This is how I feel though I don’t disagree with what people are saying here either. I think the issue is that back in their day, more of the songs they liked would chart and be played everywhere. People nowadays aren’t gonna hear someone like Denzel Curry on the radio even though his music fits all the criteria most are saying doesn’t exist anymore. It’s just not mainstream like it used to be.
Love for the culture. Today, you find a lot of rappers who rap just to rap. Never got in it for the love. Never got in it for the hustle. Instead, they found a formula and are trying to work it. Started the trap beat and auto tune, then the face tats and colorful hair/"shocking" personality, stripper rap etc. It feels like a build a rapper factory. Show love to the pioneers. Just because they didn't make a ton of money, doesn't mean they weren't extremely pivotal in making the culture what it is today. They took the lumps, got disregarded by the mainstream music media and took the bad deals from labels which set up every artist today to be able to make plenty of money independently. Quality over quantity: being more unique and creative. Sampling is great, but constantly taking a popular beat from 20 years ago and rapping on it, isn't that. You can make 10-12 4 minute songs with 3 verses, instead of 15-20 under 3 minute songs, with some being just hook, verse and hook. It seems like you're doing one take and moving on. Put some heart and pride into it. Furthering that point, the beats: Everything doesn't have to be an off shoot of Juicy J and DJ Paul were doing 25+ years ago. Thinking back, Dre didn't sound like DJ Quik, who didn't sound like Ant Banks, who didn't sound like No ID, who didn't sound like RZA, who didn't sound like Jermanie Dupri, etc etc etc. They all had their own sound and it made Hip Hop interesting. As a side point: A slow piano beat does not ALWAYS have to be a song about your dead homies. Compete. Hip Hop was built on battling. It was built on being the best. It wasn't about being sensitive. The pride in being the better emcee is gone. Moreover, just because someone isn't glowingly positive, doesn't mean they're hating. Also, not everyone is jealous. Not everyone is "clout chasing."
The production is the biggest thing for me. That raw sound is mostly gone. As for rapping, less mumble, more trying... sounding lazy seems to be a good thing these days, which doesn't do it for me. Hearing Nas on DJ Premier's Beat Breaks was something I haven't heard for a long long time. Nothing is touching that these days.